Time may alter perception of Bush presidency / LJWorld.com

Archive for Saturday, July 5, 2008

By Cal Thomas

July 5, 2008

It is a privilege to spend 90 minutes with the president of the United States. It is frustrating, though, when 90 percent of those minutes are declared off the record.

President Bush likes it that way, because he gets to speak "frankly" without worrying about how his remarks will be interpreted. Monday, in the on-the-record part of an interview with a small group of newspaper and magazine columnists, the president spoke of progress in Iraq: "I am pleased that the initial skepticism ... is beginning to fade, to the point where (the) king of Jordan is going to Iraq; Prime Minister Maliki is going to Abu Dhabi; ambassadors are soon to be exchanged, hopefully."

The president thinks his commitment to stabilizing Iraq has boosted confidence in other countries: "...the region is beginning to recognize, after a period of uncertainty, that a free Iraq is going to be important to their futures - economic future and political future, because a free and successful Iraq will end up serving as a pushback to Iranian movements in the Middle East."

He is clearly pleased that funding for the war, which congressional Democrats repeatedly tried to halt, has been approved and will last six months into the new administration, which will allow the next president time to assess progress and make his own decisions. He is equally pleased the House has passed legislation protecting private phone companies who aid the government in eavesdropping on calls to or from suspected terrorists overseas. "...a very important tool (in the war against terrorism) is to listen," he said. He called on the Senate to pass it "expeditiously."

The president also reiterated his core philosophy since Sept. 11, 2001: "This is a war that requires the United States to not wait to get attacked, and therefore arrest people after the attack. It is a war that requires us to be proactive and to prevent attacks." While he refuses to discuss domestic politics, this sounded like a criticism of Barack Obama, who wants to negotiate with America's terrorist enemies and thinks the legal system can better handle terrorists after they have killed Americans.

Also on the record were the president's comments about the escalating cost of gasoline. In an apparent jab at Congress, whose Democratic leaders promised to do something about gas prices if given a majority, but have not, the president said, "I would ask people to look at the report Vice President Cheney did early on in this administration about our view of how we should have dealt with this problem in a comprehensive way." That report included references to the new technologies that allow for oil and gas exploration on American territory and offshore that minimize any threats to the environment.

The rest is conjecture and opinion based on impressions and not on what the president actually said.

While the war in Iraq is going better, the war in Afghanistan is not, causing more people to focus on the problem country rather than the better country. That is understandable to a point, but given the heat the president has taken over Iraq, one might expect him to get more credit now that things have substantially improved from where they were before the troop surge.

Some historians, most of whom are liberal, have already declared President Bush the worst president in history. We talked about this in previous meetings. He has said the worst time to judge a president is when he is in office and that perspectives often change years later when policies have had time to prove themselves (or not) and the political heat generated by partisanship has subsided.

This president still believes freedom can be established in the Arab and Muslim world. I am not as sure of this as he is, especially in nations that believe their brand of Islam is real freedom and our concept of freedom is a license for immoral behavior.

We will have to wait on the outcome to know if he's right. That outcome will most definitely be on the historical record for future generations to judge.

- Cal Thomas is a columnist for Tribune Media Services.

Discussion

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5 July 2008
at 6:45 a.m.

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merrill (Anonymous) says…

One can only hope that BUSHCO winds in the federal penitentiary. Punishing a criminal president and and cabinet members with jail time would alter history. I say the USA should go for it.
5 July 2008
at 7:41 a.m.

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Hussein (Anonymous) says…

Definitely, history may rate him as worse than he appears to be now, if that's possible. But as usual, this is Cal's garbage style of writing, cheerleading for Bush.
5 July 2008
at 8:50 a.m.

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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

Uh oh! Can o' worms, anyone?Not a fan of Cal's at all. People like him who 'supposedly' sit so far on one side of the fence (Hannity, O'Reilly, Coulter, Carville's wife, Franken, Moore, Keillor) and have a public mike always seem to be stirring the pot for knee jerk reactions. It seems more an effort to rile than to conversate. But I will be interested to see how this past 8 years is looked back on in say twenty years from now. Remember, Reagan was under constant attack and was reviled across Europe(much like GWB)for his policies and actions concerning the USSR. History and results have a way of tempering things with hindsight. Granted, the flubs and arrogance of the Bush admin. will need a looong time and some serious reversals in the Mid-East to overcome their current 'legacy'. Time will tell.
5 July 2008
at 9:09 a.m.

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logrithmic (Anonymous) says…

I think it will definitely alter the perception of Bush. Especially when he is put in handcuffs and forced to stand trial for his crimes:http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19903.htm
5 July 2008
at 9:10 a.m.

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xbusguy (Anonymous) says…

At this point…. I just hope that our next president is smarter than me. (can't say that about Bush)
5 July 2008
at 9:19 a.m.

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bennyoates (Anonymous) says…

Sorry, Cal. I know you and W. purport to believe in eternal afterlife (W.'s certainly sent more than his share of people there, despite Christ's blessing on the peacemakers of the world). But there isn't enough time in eternity to take the title of “Worst President Ever” away from your boy. And that's exactly what he's always been and remains—a little boy, not a leader. Anyway, thanks for the laughs. You never fail to deliver the chuckles and you're always right there for us, even when the daily comic strips are weak.
5 July 2008
at 9:32 a.m.

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scott3460 (Anonymous) says…

The only thing worth noting from this article is that bush is apparently as clueless about his place in history as he can be. He clings to the hope that events in the Middle East may turn to his favor, but ignores the harsh reality that he has visited upon his nation in his vainglorious efforts - weak dollar, crumbling economy (a recession to kick off the Presidency and, apparently, a Depression, or worse, to end it,) wanton spending, destruction of Constitutional rights, etc. Worst President Ever, and he will hold the title for a long time.

5 July 2008
at 9:33 a.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

The only way it will altered is for the worst. He is a disaster and people are finally starting to see that. Worst President Ever will be his historical ranking.
5 July 2008
at 9:36 a.m.

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Jimbo (Robert bickers) says…

Some certainly look better after time (Grant, Washington).Many look the same (Bad - Carter, Eh - Garfield, Good - Washington).Some actually look worse (Kennedy).We can't call Clinton for at least 20 years (thought he's certainly trying to slip down the ladder a bit). Check back on W in 30.BTW: I always hear people calling for Bush's criminal arrest. What crimes has he committed?
5 July 2008
at 10:01 a.m.

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unknownperson (Anonymous) says…

McCain would do the best job for next pres
5 July 2008
at 10:10 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

Reagan had one accomplishment of note, and that was primarily being fortunate enough to be president when Gorbachev did most of the heavy lifting of ending the cold war.Beyond that, he was mostly a bumbling know-nothing who could read John Wayne's lines that had been rewritten for someone playing president.
5 July 2008
at 10:17 a.m.

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logrithmic (Anonymous) says…

Jimbo,Check out my 9:09 link to find out about his crimes.I also have a video link if you would prefer:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xP79ReW8bk
5 July 2008
at 10:38 a.m.

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mike_blur (Mike Blur) says…

Lest we forget, Reagan's enduring legacy is that he financed his friend Saddam Hussein's military in its jihad against Iran and the Ayatollah. For that, Reagan deserves his rightful place in Hell. Of course, we as a nation couldn't pick sides as to whether Reagan wanted us to think of Saddam Hussein as a good guy, especially after the Ayatollah kicked the bucket and the USA had no one in Iran to hate.
5 July 2008
at 10:54 a.m.

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logrithmic (Anonymous) says…

Mike, Not only did he finance Saddam, but he encouraged his use of chemical weapons on the battlefield against Iran and provided satellite access to him so that he could better target these munitions. Reagan also financed Saddam's biological and rocket delivery systems. And by looking the other way, he and Bush I could be considered accomplices to Saddam's use of chemical weapons on the Kurds - without our know-how in this area, Saddam would not have been able to perpetrate this war crime.But then when Reagan died, the American population was deluged by a week of corporate propaganda that idolized and fictionalized his record - a record of corruption and criminal activity that I thought would never be passed - until this administration came along. For all of Reagan's faults, I don't believe he would've ever countenanced unwarranted surviellance and spying on Americans without warrants, using military spy satellites to spy on American homes, or permitting the FBI to enter homes without warrants. We had to wait for George W. Bush to trash our constitution and make a mockery of what it means to be an American…And we had to wait for the Congress of 2006 to see how spineless Democraps can be in standing up to tyranny. On Monday or Tuesday, when they vote to enact the new FISA, they will have effectively shredded the 4th and 5th amendments. Not only that, but they also will have provided immunity to the illegal behavior of corporations and Bush and his executive branch for violating the original FISA law. Such a violation is punishable by 5 years in jail. But this pre-emptive immunity before a finding that crime has been committed is one of the most egregious acts in the history of the country!As Billy Jack said long ago: “When lawmen break the law, then there is no law.” The FISA bill that will probably be approved by Congress this next week is a criminal bill and it makes a mockery of our law. Every Democrap that votes for it, including House leader Hoyer and our two reps, Boyda and Moore, should be thrown out of office.Enjoy the fruits of your labor….
5 July 2008
at 10:58 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“he financed his friend Saddam Hussein's military in its jihad against Iran and the Ayatollah.”The Kuwaitis and Saudis also chipped in big, primarily because they saw it as a way to keep their substantial Shiite populations from rebelling against their quite oppressive regimes. Their subsequent reneging on the debts Saddam ran up in running their proxy war was a major reason for his invasion of Kuwait.

5 July 2008
at 11:11 a.m.

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texburgh (Anonymous) says…

Cal is dreaming. But even he seems to think perhaps there's no hope for Bush - read the last few lines. Bush wants Dems to do something about gas prices - prices his policies have driven up through his reckless activity in the middle east. He has the gall to criticize Dems for not fixing it? He is excited that he can now spy on Americans for no particular reason except perhaps that they rub him the wrong way? A president that is happy the constitution is being trashed? What a lovely editorial to present the day after we celebrated our independence from British tyranny. Our president is cheery about imposing tyranny right here in the US. In terms of protection of the US, this president is the worst ever. He will likely be considered the worst ever for the long term. That is, if our democratic nation and constitution should somehow survive his presidency.
5 July 2008
at 11:20 a.m.

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mancityfooty (Corey Williams) says…

“I try to go for longer runs, but it's tough around here at the White House on the outdoor track. It's sad that I can't run longer. It's one of the saddest things about the presidency.” -interview with “Runners World,” Aug. 2002”The really rich people figure out how to dodge taxes anyway.” -explaining why high taxes on the rich are a failed strategy, Annandale, Va., Aug. 9, 2004and the all time favorite:”My answer is bring them on.” -on Iraqi insurgents attacking U.S. forces, Washington, D.C., July 3, 2003Everyone made fun of Dan Quayle when he misspelled potato, but we've had Bush for the past seven years saying things like the above (and worse) and I really haven't heard too much out of the “mainstream media”. Over time, though, those quotes will be the least of what comes back to make people wonder why they ever voted for him.And what is up with Cal “moral majority” Thomas lately? Is he really putting out all this work? Or are people writing it for him? I almost thought he didn't write this one, but then I saw:”…Obama, who wants to negotiate with America's terrorist enemies…”I guess that means North Korea wasn't one of our “terrorist enemies”.
5 July 2008
at 11:42 a.m.

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cato_the_elder (Anonymous) says…

Reading most of these posts would lead one to conclude that Lawrence continues, unfortunately, to be a haven for those who choose to blame their own country for all of the world's ills. In fact, every one of these spoiled whiners' complaints relates to actions in which the advice and consent of the United States Congress, including that of congressional Democrats, were intimately involved. Given Senator Obama's recent and expected-very-shortly additional flip-flops, especially on Iraq, one could assume, especially since Karl Marx and Che Guevara are dead and can't run (neither was an American citizen, anyway), that they will all have to vote for Ralph Nader (if they actually choose to take away from their valuable computer-posting time to vote), with apparently no chance of their voting for what one poster refers to as “Democraps” - some of whom are at least considerably more rational and mature than the brilliant thinkers submitting these ridiculous, juvenile, and hate-filled posts.
5 July 2008
at 11:47 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

Cato drops in to make on of his patented nah-nah-boo-boo posts.
5 July 2008
at 12:02 p.m.

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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says: “Reagan had one accomplishment of note, and that was primarily being fortunate enough to be president when Gorbachev did most of the heavy lifting of ending the cold war.”boohoozo never tires of revisionist history. Once again, I'll mention how elated I was when the news hit the wirehttp://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=5305373and how crestfallen to find out it was the wrong one.Ah, well. Nothing new about the clown taking every opportunity to praise a communist and excoriate any capitalist - it's required by his blind ideology (not to mention his Party membership).
5 July 2008
at 12:47 p.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“and how crestfallen to find out it was the wrong one.”Nota, the news of your demise is greatly exaggerated, my fellow bozo on this bus.
5 July 2008
at 1:12 p.m.

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beatrice (Anonymous) says…

texburgh: “Cal is dreaming.”Actually, it is worse than that. He is lying. From the article: “…this sounded like a criticism of Barack Obama, who wants to negotiate with America's terrorist enemies and thinks the legal system can better handle terrorists after they have killed Americans.”That is a bold faced lie. Obama has never said he wanted to negotiate with terrorist leaders nor that the legal system can best handle terrorists. He is, however, intelligent enough to know that the legal system must be kept in mind when dealing with anyone at anytime. To run such a blatant lie is pathetic. It is the same as stating, “John McCain, known for wanting to bed young girls …” which is true to the extent that his second wife is much younger than he. It is a complete twisting and fabrication of the truth, which is something Cal Thomas does on a regular basis. My favorite part is this: “It is frustrating, though, when 90 percent of those minutes are declared off the record. President Bush likes it that way, because he gets to speak “frankly” without worrying about how his remarks will be interpreted.”Yes, god forbid a journalist who is given a privileged position to talk one on one with our President of the United States — who works for the people, by the way — actually present what the President said during that conversation. Apparently, Cal thinks it much more important to not tell us what the President had to say in his own words, but instead to attempt to read between the lines by lying. Cal Thomas is nothing more than a shill for the right. He is the newspaper equivalent of a Swift Boat advertisement for the Republican Party. He is a liar. To the emphasis of the article, time will attest to what we already know: Bush is an incompetent, inarticulate, and not particularly bright man who has been placed in a position that far exceeds his abilities, thanks to the support of the now dwindling but still scary neoconservative movement.
5 July 2008
at 1:48 p.m.

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commuter (Anonymous) says…

Time will only tell. When President Truman left office, he was regarded as the worst president is history. After many years, this perception has changed.

5 July 2008
at 2:16 p.m.

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commuter (Anonymous) says…

Merrill:Maybe he can share a cell with Bill Clinton, or maybe Mike Rundle or you or more of your PLC buddies? Last time i checked, didn't Clinton lie under oath and he did not go to jail?
5 July 2008
at 2:23 p.m.

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logrithmic (Anonymous) says…

My perception of Truman is still that he was one of the worst presidents ever. In fact, I don't celebrate “president's day.” I save my celebration for Martin Luther King's birthday. I think president's day should be renamed: “Crooks, Liars, and Terrorists” day.
5 July 2008
at 2:27 p.m.

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logrithmic (Anonymous) says…

Cato - the good German. Shine those boots up nicely Cato, and don't forget the white robes and the swastikas.
5 July 2008
at 2:29 p.m.

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BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

How could these so-called “historians” forget Jimmy Carter? That guy was the worst president by far.
5 July 2008
at 2:44 p.m.

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riverat (Joe Hyde) says…

What Merrill and Bozo said.Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld should all three be occupying cells in Leavenworth USP. “High crimes and misdemeanors.” There is no higher crime a U.S. president, vice president and defense secretary can commit than to lie our country into a war of aggression. A war that, in Iraq after our military defeated the Iraqi Republican Guard, required our forces to stay in Iraq as an occupation army to prevent a civil war that would certainly have happened if we'd suddenly pulled our forces out of the country, creating a power vacuum.Arab and Persian countries have for decades been exploited and abused by western nations. The U.S. alone has manipulated governments in that area of the world: In Iran, we overthrew a democratically elected Islamic government then installed the Shah of Iran to do our bidding, thereby earning the lasting resentment and hatred of that nation.If we would admit to these nations the many past wrongs we've committed against their governments and peoples, and sincerely ask for their forgiveness and mercy, I think this is the only hope of ending the underlying historical hostilities that have been fueling terrorist attacks against us.But despite the wealth of evidence that the Bush administration deliberately lied us into a war of aggression against Iraq, we Americans as a people failed to impeach our own leaders. This tells the Arab and Persian people loud and clear that the citizens of the United States are okay with the wrongs that are being committed. With no political action taken to remove Bush and Cheney from office, what choice do Arab and Persian people have but to go on believing that Americans are an outlaw people attempting to control their governments and raid their resources?We would never tolerate any foreign country invading us and doing such things as occupying our nation by force and systematically removing our resources. Bush's arrogance in bum-rapping Iraq and then invading it has, in the eyes of the Islamic world, made U.S. soldiers into the moral and historical equivalent of British Redcoats.Anybody lately asked why there've been no British military bases on U.S. soil for over 200 years? It's because we still don't want them here.
5 July 2008
at 3:03 p.m.

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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says: “Nota, the news of your demise is greatly exaggerated, my fellow bozo on this bus.”boohoozo, the news of your ever having lived is greatly exaggerated. As to my own demise, clown, if there was even the slimmest possibility that I any way, shape, or form was even slightly anything like you, I'd just bring it about myself.
5 July 2008
at 4 p.m.

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yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

Keep clicking those ruby-slippered heels, Cal.
5 July 2008
at 4:10 p.m.

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scott3460 (Anonymous) says…

Re: Reagan In addition to all the others who have pointed out some of the truthes glossed over in the recent revision of the Reagan years, let me remind folks of the horrible 1982 recession we had. I was newly looking for work at the time and those were very, very rough days brought about by his ridiculous economic policies. Fortunately there was a Democratic Congress to reign in many of his proposed abuses. I agree with the prior poster, however. Even at his worst, Reagan cannot hold a turd to our current war criminal occupant of the office.

5 July 2008
at 4:39 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,3… metric tons of “yellow cake” uranium was secretely removed from Iraq. So much for not having WMD!
5 July 2008
at 4:49 p.m.

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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

logrithmic (Anonymous) says: ” I think president's day should be renamed: “Crooks, Liars, and Terrorists” day.”That's so sad, man, so very sad. Sincerely. And while I do agree that MLK's life does call for celebration, I wonder if he'd be thought of in the same light if he'd been allowed to live and was somehow elected President. Seems to me that Walesa, Mandela, MLK — whoever — would inevitably be villified as leader of the free world. There's just so much responsibility, we're so widespread in our global interests, there are so many allies that end up needing help that the CIC is gonna step on toes. I mean, if I'm not mistaken, Carter is the only Prez in the last century not to get involved in a military conflict somewhere. He attempted to rule with an olive branch and if it weren't for GWB he'd probably still be widely considered the worst, most ineffective Prez to date. I don't know, log, I just prefer to believe that no prez is as good or as bad as people make them out to be. I think I'd have to consider emmigration if I believed our leaders were all 'crooks, liars, and terrorists.'
5 July 2008
at 4:55 p.m.

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scott3460 (Anonymous) says…

“For that and other reasons, such as defeating the Soviet Union, Reagan deserves a spot at the right hand of God.”One is rendered speechless in the face of such stupidity.
5 July 2008
at 4:57 p.m.

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scott3460 (Anonymous) says…

” Who would have thought that a group in Lawrence would have ever named themselves after a former KKK member.”You mean the man who integrated the military? Yes, how racist of him.
5 July 2008
at 5:16 p.m.

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jayhawklawrence (Anonymous) says…

1995Without any previous business experience, Cheney leaves the Department of Defense to become the CEO of Halliburton Co., one of the biggest oil-services companies in the world. He will be chairman of the company from 1996 to October 1998 and from February to August 2000. Under Cheney's leadership, Halliburton moves up from 73rd to 18th on the Pentagon's list of top contractors…. Years later, during the 2000 campaign in a broadcasted vice presidential candidates' debate with Joe Lieberman, Cheney asserts that “the government has absolutely nothing to do” with his financial success as chairman of Halliburton Co. .. Halliburton pleads guilty to criminal charges of violating a U.S. ban on exports to Libya by selling Col. Qaddafi six pulse neutron generators, devices that can be used to detonate nuclear weapons. Let the historians begin…http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/about_hal/chronology.htmlAnd the beat goes on…
5 July 2008
at 5:21 p.m.

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commuter (Anonymous) says…

Merrill: You may trash anyone you like but remember your buddies, Boog, Rundle, and Schauner, are just as worse as any other politician. Those three bozos were defict spending and spending down the citties reserves on their pet projects. They helped increase the current city fiscal problems, if they would have shown some fiscal restraint, maybe we would have more city reserves.If Bush goes to jail, those three idiots should be held accountable for waste spending. Mayb e all three of them should live in the same room.
5 July 2008
at 5:29 p.m.

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scott3460 (Anonymous) says…

Truman attended one KKK meeting. Hardly surprising for a politician of his era and as a resident of a formerly slave holding state. As President he integrated the military and appointed the Supreme Court Justices who would end separate but equal. Not sure what all the FDR hating is in response to. But since you brought it up, I wish the bastard currently holding the office of President wasn't spying on innocent Americans.
5 July 2008
at 5:47 p.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“if there was even the slimmest possibility that I any way, shape, or form was even slightly anything like you, I'd just bring it about myself.”Well, you certainly waste a lot of time posting on this forum. What method have you chosen for your undoing?

5 July 2008
at 6:18 p.m.

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janeyb (Anonymous) says…

If they can make a deceased Gerald Ford out a hero for pardoning Nixon and “healing the nation”, they can find something to make Bush a hero too. After all he is a uniter not a divider, and Cheney is the devil.
5 July 2008
at 7 p.m.

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purplesage (Anonymous) says…

merrill wants to punish a “criminal president” with time in prison. The chance was squandered when President Clinton was allowed to escape punishment for the many shennanigans he and his wife pulled both in Arkansas and Washington.
5 July 2008
at 8:35 p.m.

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jonas (Anonymous) says…

Balik: Are you going to back your assertion that Truman was a KKK member with a legitimate source?
5 July 2008
at 8:36 p.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

but, god talked to him
5 July 2008
at 8:51 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

What about that 550 metric tons of “yello cake” Uranium that they just took out of Iraq? Nothing from the left commenting on the atomic implications?”Yello Cake” was one of the reasons we went to war with Iraq, and remember the Plame controversy? Seems as if Husband Joe was wrong, as Saddam got 550 metric tons of “yellow cake” from somewhere!http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,376747,00.htmlwhat no responses to that? Seems as if he did n ot lie and mislead, because there is 550 metric tons of the stuff. that would be 1,2100,000 pounds of the stuff.Again, Joe Wilson was wrong. Plame was then coivering up and misinforming congress about Saddam's uranium supplies.
5 July 2008
at 9:35 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

What are you guys going to do when the knowledge of the chemical weapon stockpile destruction records get out, like th 550 metric tons of “yello cake”.The dems will look pretty stupid at that time.I am betting this will be a “November Surprise”.
5 July 2008
at 10:05 p.m.

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beatrice (Anonymous) says…

Oh no, asbestos just quoted from a FoxNews story about Iraq WMDs!!!! The Dems are done!!! Its over!!If only George Bush himself hadn't admitted back in August 2006 that Iraq didn't have WMDs when we invaded. “BUSH: Now, look, I — part of the reason we went into Iraq was — the main reason we went into Iraq at the time was we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. It turns out he didn't, but he had the capacity to make weapons of mass destruction…You know, I've heard this theory about, you know, everything was just fine until we arrived and, you know, kind of — the “stir up the hornet's nest” theory. It just doesn't hold water as far as I'm concerned. The terrorists attacked us and killed 3,000 of our citizens before we started the freedom agenda in the Middle East. They were —question: What did Iraq have to do with that?BUSH: What did Iraq have to do with what?question: The attack on the World Trade Center.BUSH: Nothing, except for it's part of — and nobody's ever suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attack. Iraq was a — Iraq — the lesson of September the 11th is take threats before they fully materialize, Ken.Nobody's ever suggested that the attacks of September the 11th were ordered by Iraq..”How embarrassing that our nation would elect such an inarticulate, unintelligent and deceitful man to be our leader. Obama for President. It is time to bring integrity back to the White House!
5 July 2008
at 10:38 p.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

It's a non-story, asbestos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_… Baghdad Nuclear Research Facility adjacent to the Tuwaitha “Yellow Cake Factory” contains the remains of nuclear reactors bombed by Israel in 1981 and the United States in 1991. It was used as a storage facility for spent reactor fuel and industrial and medical wastes. The radioactive material would not be useful for a fission bomb, but could be used in a dirty bomb. Following the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the facility was heavily looted by hundreds of Iraqis, though it is unclear what was taken.”

5 July 2008
at 10:52 p.m.

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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says: “Well, you certainly waste a lot of time posting on this forum.”Coming from the guy approaching 9000 posts.I don't need to choose a method, boohoozo, because barring massive head trauma or a botched lobotomy, I will never be anything like you. Which only goes towards proving there is indeed a merciful God.
5 July 2008
at 10:54 p.m.

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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…

beatrice (Anonymous) says: “Oh no, asbestos just quoted from a FoxNews story about Iraq WMDs!!!!”beatrice seems to be the local expert on the Fox network and Bill OReilly. How strange.
5 July 2008
at 10:57 p.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

Let me remind you of your own words, nota—”if there was even the slimmest possibility that I any way, shape, or form was even slightly anything like you, I'd just bring it about myself.”Yes, I waste a lot of time on this entertaining little forum. And I merely pointed out that you do, as well, which, by definition, is at least slightly like myself.So what method have you chosen?
5 July 2008
at 10:58 p.m.

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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…

And by the way, beatrice, pretty interesting coming from the one arguing in defense of the comparison of fireworks to WMD's.
5 July 2008
at 11 p.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

actually, beatrice merely pointed out the source of a mindless quote. it's a given, if its fox, its a total lie or at the very least a massive spin to cover up the real facts,
6 July 2008
at 11:01 a.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

“How embarrassing that our nation would elect such an inarticulate, unintelligent and deceitful man to be our leader.”Don't forget the **entire** congress except for Kucinnich, reading the very same NIEs voted for the Invasion, and has continued to fund it to the President' s level.Yeah, Obama was not in the Senate then, so he could not vote, but my bet is he would have voted for it at that time, because it was politically expedient to do so at that time.So hold some of theat anger and rancor for the Senate and House.To the BOZO moron:”It was used as a storage facility for spent reactor fuel and industrial and medical wastes.”“Yellow Cake” is finely processed and is not a waste. And **Wikipedia** as your **source** the one that has liberal idiots writing out things that are uncomfortabel to Dems? Wiki is not a “scholarly” source, nor is it even a 'correct” or “fact driven” source.To BeoMoron:”it's a given, if its fox, its a total lie or at the very least a massive spin to cover up the real facts,”That is the “open mind” we like so well. Now just go in the corner and drink your Koolaide. Just remember that FoxNews is the number one news and commentary in the country, and so is Rush in total numbers. Now if what you say is true (which it is not) that means the US is conservative by population, and a majority.You bums may want to look at what the people of Sand Francisco are saying this AM. San Fran Nan is in trouble if she wants to forward Amnesty. The liberal city is all up in arms and they are taking a pretty conservative tone. Check out the comments section. Just push the 'comments' section where you can respond.http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/05/mn7u11jlm7.dtl&tsp=1
6 July 2008
at 11:05 a.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

Here is one from the Star Telegram/APhttp://www.star-telegram.com/190/story/742787.htmlLog Cabin Democratshttp://thecabin.net/stories/070608/loc_0706080012.shtmlCape Cod timeshttp://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20080706/news11/80706004i guess Fox made it up and the AP “fell for the lie”.Yeah, you guys are really good “fact finders” and “fact checkers”.
6 July 2008
at 11:38 a.m.

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mancityfooty (Corey Williams) says…

Considering it was an AP article, I'm surprised you didn't put up more links to this story. But then again, it would be the same thing every time.Did you read the part about how “There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991, the official said.”?So Hussein had about 550 metric tons of the stuff, why didn't he do anything with it? And why would he need more from Niger?

6 July 2008
at 11:58 a.m.

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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

Not for nothin', but I find it fairly miopic when so many iterate ad nauseum about the lack of WMD's in Iraq. It's right up there with the silly statements about how 'we're 'sposed to have brought Osama to justice, why haven't we found him?'Metric tons of yellowcake and sarin gas were found, both WMD's. It's not just a term for nukes. And it seems plausible that in a country that's 95% desert there's more than enough room to bury/hide such weapons when you know invasion is imminent. Not to mention willing recipients to the east and west like Syria and Iran. Weapons and Republican Guard were flooding over both borders before the invasion. There was no reason for Saddam to deny complete access to inspectors, which he'd agreed to in treaty, unless he had something to hide.And I find it funny when people complain that Osama hasn't been found and that's some sort of grand failure of this administration. Eric Rudolph, the abortion clinic bomber/Centennial Olympic Park bomber evaded authorities for something like 5 years right there in North Carolina mountains, mostly by himself. Osama has plenty of help and has hundreds of thousands of square miles of remote, foreign, rocky ,mountaineous terrain between Pakistan and Afghanistan to hide in. He's holed up in some cave network, probably, just like the Afghani freedom fighters hid from the Russians for 10 years.I guess I'm just wondering where 'perspective' went. No doubt there are plenty of flubs and failures with this admin., I just think harping on these two items is silly and small-minded. A democrat led commmision recently found that everyone acted on the best intelligence available regarding WMD's and the invasion of Iraq. Did Bush and co. spin it somewhat? Of course they did! Today's American society is beyond a hard sell for such actions, as any military conflict will be in informationally advanced countries like the U.S. and Europe. Noone wants to see all the destruction on CNN.
6 July 2008
at 12:09 p.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“Metric tons of yellowcake and sarin gas were found, both WMD's.”You whine on with words you can't spell (it's “myopia”) and then follow it up with complete BS. Yellowcake (and the location and amount of this yellocake has been known for nearly 30 years) won't even make a good dirty bomb, much less a WMD. And as far as sarin goes, there was one shell found in 2004, and it predated 1991.”Did Bush and co. spin it somewhat? Of course they did! Today's American society is beyond a hard sell for such actions, as any military conflict will be in informationally advanced countries like the U.S. and Europe. Noone wants to see all the destruction on CNN.”So lying in order to push through war crimes and mass murder is a good thing? Are those situational ethics, or are you just a psychopath?
6 July 2008
at 12:32 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

I guess “lying” in support of your party (the Democrats) to downplay the actual WMD issue is ok by you then.Listen mental midget, don't you think Rumsfeld is going to dump some inltelligence pretty soon? I mean Malaki has stated just this AM that the terrorists in Iraq are defeated (that is Iraq not US sentiment) and it is a mop up operation. I am betting the total WMD inventory will be revealed around October 20, 2008.Then we will see democrats lie again just like Bozo is doing now.”Yellowcake (and the location and amount of this yellocake has been known for nearly 30 years) won't even make a good dirty bomb, much less a WMD. And as far as sarin goes, there was one shell found in 2004, and it predated 1991.”So they did have nuclear components in 2003 in the form of yellow cake. It was still there and in control of Iraqi Saddam Hussien. ANd he kicked out the weapons inspectors and reopened the seals. So what is your point there moron?As for the saran in 2004 one shell, but 300 shells of mustard and blister agent, which the democrats stated that it was safer than things under their kitchen sink and it was “degraded”.Shows that the citizens and the Democratic Leaders don't know much about WMD. “Degraded mustard and bilister agent” means it turns from an oil that can be made airborn, to a jelly, but it is still very chemically lethal, but cannot be dispersed. That was the “degradation”, and anyone that knows anything about WMD knows that.So you are a moron and ignorant about WMD, and you get your info from the dailyKos or Moveon.org. Why don't you look it up on Wiki, rotfflmfao!!!.That is why the dips stopped talking about it.
6 July 2008
at 12:34 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

BTW the usamrid guide is on my desk right now Bozo, so don't go there.
6 July 2008
at 1:56 p.m.

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Mr_Nancy_Boy_To_You (Tom Shewmon) says…

Obama will likely be the next prez and his presidency will vindicate W much more than the sum total of all other factors. GWB will be looked back on as one of the most forward thinking presidents in these dangerous modern times. W was cuckolded by the extremist radical left who kissed the feet of George Soros for eight years and this will bring swift and severe backlash to these extremist radical leftists.
6 July 2008
at 1:56 p.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

Despite all your ranting, there is still zero evidence of WMD in Iraq since 1991, asby baby. In reality, Iraq has never had any WMD that they could deliver to the US— Sarin and Mustard gas are mighty nasty chemicals, but calling them WMD is mostly hyperbole, since they would have required extremely sophisticated delivery systems to deliver them anywhere far outside of Iraq's borders— something Iraq has never had. They never had any nuclear weapons or any way to deliver them.So take your blood pressure meds, and as BushCo depart the scene, would you finally admit that they lied to you?
6 July 2008
at 2:16 p.m.

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50YearResident (Anonymous) says…

Time will only make it worse when the truth finally comes out.
6 July 2008
at 2:17 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

“Despite all your ranting, there is still zero evidence of WMD in Iraq since 1991, asby baby.”Yello Cake. That was what they took out.Now I see that youhave changed the issue of “WMD” to “Capable delivery systems”. Good thing people like you are not in charge. Capable delivery systems are around, even when Sarin and Mustard are in “degraded states.Dude, stop letting someone give you opinions use your head.Go to u.s.a.m.r.i.d. and get the facts and the book, and stop using your less than stellar “guessing” and the moveon statments.”… Sarin and Mustard gas are mighty nasty chemicals, but calling them WMD is mostly hyperbole…”Show how big of a denier you are on this topic.Agains stupidity reigns in your posts:”They never had any nuclear weapons or any way to deliver them.”Unh the “entended range” SCUDS. Hello, ring a bell? They had scuds, and they had yellow cake, with your stupid Lawrence Kansas Liberal view of the world, ypu are going to wait until they assemble one? Is that the sum total of the opinion of liberals that back this “there wer no WMD's in Iraq” and this was an “illegal war”.You expect us to take you liars seriously? Your twisted kind are scarey and all you want to do is paint all Republicans as crazed people, but you say the lies with a straight face, and on top of that, you believe your own lies.What do we have to d, draw you a picture in crayon?

6 July 2008
at 4:28 p.m.

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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

Our Village Idiot aka Bozo spews:”So lying in order to push through war crimes and mass murder is a good thing? Are those situational ethics, or are you just a psychopath?”Huh? Is that what I said? Or are you showing us an example of 'spin', which is what I was referring? And I can only guess that your myopic (happy now?) mind thinks I was involved with said spin to call me a psychopath.Look, the main point of my post was the apparent lack of perspective displayed by so many people these days. Thank you for proving my point. I've been surfing the LJW for almost a week now, and in all your countless posts you've yet to submit anything with any substance whatsoever. No ideas, no factually based opinions, no legitimate topics for discussion, no perspective….nothing! You have one thing to regurgitate and one thing only — Bush is evil. You're just as bad as idealogues like Coulter or Hannity, but without the intelligence. A trained parrot has as much to add to these conversations as you do. And referring to any of our military's actions as 'mass murder' just goes to show how ignorant you truly are.
6 July 2008
at 4:59 p.m.

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scott3460 (Anonymous) says…

“W was cuckolded by the extremist radical left who kissed the feet of George Soros for eight years….”Please provide even a single example.Don't you hacks ever get tired of spewing the lies. bush had a republican majority for his first appointed term. That crew did absolutely nothing in the way of busking his agenda. The democrats currently enjoy a slim majority, but clearly not a sufficient one to accomplish much of anything. Add to that equation that you have a creature such as Joseph Lieberman being counted as a democrat & those with a working familiarity with reality understand that bush has very, very rarely been thwarted, if at all.
6 July 2008
at 5:02 p.m.

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beatrice (Anonymous) says…

nota: “beatrice seems to be the local expert on the Fox network and Bill OReilly. How strange.”Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Actually, it doesn't take too much first-hand knowledge of FoxNews to know that it is not a credible source for unbiased news, or that Bill O'Reilly likes to repeat himself by accusing those who care about the environment or don't walk in goose-step behind the neocon platform of “drinking kool-aid.” It is a simple platform aimed at people who don't like to think too deeply. Since our President has stated that there were no WMDs, are you calling him a liar?
6 July 2008
at 5:13 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

“Since our President has stated that there were no WMDs, are you calling him a liar?”Strawman argument. That is what “political expedency looks like”. As an Obama supporter you should have seen it.As for your “analysis” on FoxNews, 3 media studies show FoxNews to be the most balanced. However, since the rest of the MSM are liberal and most are outright Obama supporters and not journalists, ther really is no “news” other than Fox. Besides BeaBaby, O'RTeilly is a “commentator” and not presentation of news. IT is “opinion analysis” and his programs have a 50/50 viewpoint **always**. That is why it looks tiltede “right”, it is balanced, and when the whole MSM boat is listing, a boat that is “righted” does look crooked to those on the listing ship.Go get another cup of grape koolaide.
6 July 2008
at 5:20 p.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“and in all your countless posts you've yet to submit anything with any substance whatsoever.”No, you just ignore the substance because you can't refute it with your sophomoric prattle.
6 July 2008
at 5:42 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

Is that the “neiner neiner” argument Bozo? You guys ought to see what you type from the other side.
6 July 2008
at 6:06 p.m.

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Jay_Z (Anonymous) says…

Reading the posts from the wacked-out Lawrence liberals regarding the President is quite entertaining. “BushCo”, “war criminal”, “terrorist”, “he's destroying the consitution”…you people are so warped. Keep reading those moveon.org blogs so you can come back here and provide some more comedy.
6 July 2008
at 6:58 p.m.

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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

Scott says:”Add to that equation that you have a creature such as Joseph Lieberman being counted as a democrat “I've always found this an interesting opinion of Lieberman. The man's voting record shows he's backed his party more than 90% of the time, yet he's villified by so many staunch progressive's mainly because he's always been in support of the President with regards to the war. Our Village Idiot whimpers:”No, you just ignore the substance because you can't refute it with your sophomoric prattle”Shocker! Another post from Bozo with no substance! Refute what? You never say anything! Bush lies-Bush bad-Polly wanna cracker! We get as much from your posts as a two year old gets pulling the string on a Chatty Cathy doll.

6 July 2008
at 7:07 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

“i am sorry but he is a huge criminal”IF Bush is a criminal, then so is Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi< and the rest of the Democratic ilk in the senate and house.How about Chris Dodd. The guy that is “investigation Countrywide Mortgage” after they give him a sweetheart deal that amounts to a bag of money of $75,000. And this crinimal is still trying to float the “mortgage legislation” with a law and he is advancing it so Countrywide and thie other illegal lenders get a 300 Billion dollar bailout.Yeah, that is right, the Dems have criminals of their own, but you don't look at them do you?How about that Chris Dodd, he was running for President, and he should be in jail for bribery and worse stuff than you punks say about Bush.
6 July 2008
at 8:04 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

The Hague has no jurisdiction over United States Citizens, envoys, or diplomats.How in the world would you cede jurisdiction over any President to any nationality or Alliance?That manuever shows that the Democrats that hate bush and republicans so much have their hatred outrun their Patriotism and sense of nationality.Yeah, you guys are deep thinkiers !Besides I am not going to watch 2 hours of propaganda, just because you posted it here.Go get another cupfull of koolaide.
6 July 2008
at 8:21 p.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

asbestos, how many hours a day of right wing propaganda such as fox or white house press briefing do you watch?
6 July 2008
at 8:24 p.m.

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beatrice (Anonymous) says…

Another kool-aid referrence from a neocon!!! Asbestos and notajay should have to pay that company royalties they use its name so frequently. Too funny. Well, I drink your milkshake.
6 July 2008
at 8:32 p.m.

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scott3460 (Anonymous) says…

“yet he's villified by so many staunch progressive's mainly because he's always been in support of the President with regards to the war.”backing the village idiot is one big strike, I'll grant you that, but Holy Joe is also disliked for the ease with which he throws his fellow Democrats under the bus to garner the attention of the cons. Let's face it, he's our Scotty McClellan - the traitorous Democrat that makes a big deal of switching parties and extracts all he can to keep him in the Demo fold. He's a disgraceful little whore that the Cons trot out to shopw how bipartisan they are. A creep who plays nice with the bush crime syndicate for the few crumbs they toss his way.
6 July 2008
at 9:07 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

let see 550 metric tons of “yellow cake” is 1,210,000 pounds which is 550,000 kg. Now there is .7% U235 in “yellow cake”, and that means that there is 3850 kg of uranium. Nearest estimates is that it takes some where between 15 kg to 62 kg to make “critical mass”. The difference depends on efficency of the weapon. Now, I would say Iraq would not produce an efficeint design, but could buy one, which means I will use 52 kg as a “nominal amount” of Uranium 235 for Iraq, which means that that 3850 kg could be used to produce 74 weapons with an output of 100KT.
6 July 2008
at 9:08 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

Who is the liar now?
6 July 2008
at 9:24 p.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

bush and his worshippers.

6 July 2008
at 9:50 p.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

Terrorist sympathiser and Anti American traitor.See I can call names too.
6 July 2008
at 9:56 p.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

so, using your “logic”, questioning bush makes me a Terrorist sympathizer and Anti American traitor. Somehow I've always thought we had the right to question and disagree with our leaders. even one as brilliant and dedicated as the “decider”, more affectionately know as the liar-in-chief.
6 July 2008
at 10:19 p.m.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says…

That shrubbery has adorned the White house for far too long. Someone ought to get out the hedge trimmers and “carve” it into something more appealing… like a toadstool… or a toad… or a *stool*….
6 July 2008
at 10:50 p.m.

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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

Holy smokes, Scott! “traiterous..disgraceful whore…creep”? For a man that votes behind the democrat line more than 90% of the time? Personally, I'd much prefer there be more bi-partisan cooperation instead of political posturing and stalling and the usual crapola that goes on. But to call the guy a traitor and a whore? I think you need to switch to decaf, catch a nap, and get a little perspective, man.
7 July 2008
at 6:10 a.m.

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scott3460 (Anonymous) says…

Jaywalk:I am talking about his personality. The fact that he votes acceptably most of the time is a distinct issue. We've all seen how bi-partisan bush, cheney, rove, et al. have been. I am looking forward to the steamrolling that will take place during the next 8 years of large Democratic majorities. Lots of wrongs to clean up.
7 July 2008
at 6:33 a.m.

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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

Scott,Okay, I read ya. And I tell ya, I wouldn't mind seein' what large Dem majorities could do over the next two terms IF they promise not to tax me back to the stone age. That's one of my biggest fears concerning BO. Get rid of the IRS, institute the Fair Tax…and let's see what a little 'change' can bring about.
7 July 2008
at 6:52 a.m.

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cato_the_elder (Anonymous) says…

Jaywalker, if you honestly see any possibility that “large Dem majorities” would not tax productive members of society in as many ways as they could and as much as they could get away with, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn on which I can make you a great deal.
7 July 2008
at 7:07 a.m.

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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

Cato, I don't, unfortunately. And my business is part of the mobile work force, so damn dem taxing coupled with gas prices is probably going to force me to shut down. That's why I seriously back the Fair Tax. I truly believe it's institution would go a long way to curing a number of our society's ills. The problem is that it would take so much power away from our D.C. lawmakers that I don't see it happening any time soon. So, thanks but no on that bridge!

7 July 2008
at 7:38 a.m.

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ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says…

“so, using your “logic”, questioning bush makes me a Terrorist sympathizer and Anti American traitor. “No, being stupid and not understanding the facts of the case, and always taking an “America is in the wrong” stance just about whenever you can. That is what makes you traitorous. Look around and see how much anti American crap you are exposed to in a day.I bet you work at the University.
7 July 2008
at 8:45 a.m.

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jonas (Anonymous) says…

Balik:I'm still interested in a reference on Truman's KKK activities.
7 July 2008
at 8:47 a.m.

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jonas (Anonymous) says…

“I am looking forward to the steamrolling that will take place during the next 8 years of large Democratic majorities. Lots of wrongs to clean up.”Oh, but thoughts like these make my head hurt. Please let us hope such is not the case.
7 July 2008
at 9:48 a.m.

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beatrice (Anonymous) says…

asbestos: “I bet you work at the University.”Would that be a bad thing? Are you actually against education? I'm quite sure you are opposed to intelligence. Remember, if we question the administration, this isn't the same as saying that “America is wrong.” It is, however, saying that THIS administration is wrong. THIS administration was wrong to invade Iraq. Is questioning this administration the same thing as “anti American crap”? I don't think so. And if you do, then what were you doing during the Clinton administration? Were you anti American?
7 July 2008
at 10:36 a.m.

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cato_the_elder (Anonymous) says…

Jaywalker, right on. The Fair Tax is an idea whose time has come - but you won't see any of the neo-marxist wealth redistributionists, headed by Senator Obama, Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, supporting it anytime soon.
7 July 2008
at 1:06 p.m.

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scott3460 (Anonymous) says…

“…and always taking an “America is in the wrong” stance just about whenever you can. That is what makes you traitorous.”A traitor is someone who betrays. Pointing out shortcomings and errors does not constitute betrayal & the sooner some of you grasped that point, the better off this nation would be. What you label as tritorous is understood by most reasonable folks as highly patriotic behavior. Such clear-eyed criticism can prevent national suffering. For example, had more members of Congress exhibited such true patriotism in the last 7 years, many of the illegalities, injustices and indignities visited upon the nation by Chucklnuts, the unelected idiot, might have been avoided.
7 July 2008
at 1:28 p.m.

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cato_the_elder (Anonymous) says…

Scott3460, concerning your prior posts on Senator Lieberman: How familiar are you with the unmitigated evil that was inflicted upon him by his “fellow Democrats” in Connecticut and D.C.? Do you know anything about the rich sleazebag that the radical left found to run against him, which ultimately resulted in Lieberman's kicking his butt? Joe Lieberman is considerably more honorable, and has way more guts, than many of his colleagues in both parties - and it is that honor and intestinal fortitude that have prevented him from jumping ship concerning our Iraq policies purely for partisan political gain, which most Democrats who once strongly supported our liberation of Iraq have done. You should think twice before speaking in such a vile manner about your party's former vice presidential nominee who, according to one of your later posts calling President Bush “unelected,” should in your view have himself been elected Vice President.