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Archive for Saturday, February 2, 2008

Judge orders Tiller to immediately turn over patient records

February 2, 2008

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— Abortion provider Dr. George Tiller must turn over thousands of patients' files to a grand jury while his attorneys take the legal battle over the medical records to the state's highest court, a Sedgwick County judge ruled Friday.

The edited patient records won't have the women's names, but they will have patient-identification numbers. Tiller's attorneys claimed that in an earlier case, former Attorney General Phill Kline was able to track down patients' names using the identifying numbers on patients' files.

As part of his investigation into Tiller's clinic, Kline had obtained redacted records from 60 of the doctor's patients. Kline eventually filed 30 misdemeanor charges against Tiller before leaving office last year, only to see the case dismissed for jurisdictional reasons.

Laura Shaneyfelt, one of the doctor's attorneys, told Sedgwick County Judge Paul Buchanan on Friday that if Kline could use that information to identify patients, then someone else could as well. Buchanan is overseeing the grand jury's investigation into Tiller's clinic and had ordered the doctor to comply with three grand jury subpoenas seeking 2,000 patient records and the names of current and former employees and referring physicians.

"This is the kind of abuse we know can happen, we have seen happen, and these women are terrified will happen," Shaneyfelt said.

Shaneyfelt said Kline cross-referenced patient file numbers with abortion records at the Kansas Department of Health and Environment, then subpoenaed records from Wichita's La Quinta Inn, where patients were staying, to match dates with names.

After the hearing, Brian Burgess, a spokesman for Kline, who is now Johnson County district attorney, disputed Shaneyfelt's account.

"No patients have ever been identified," Burgess said.

He declined further comment, citing a related case now under seal before the Kansas Supreme Court.

Although he wouldn't say what case he was citing, Kline and Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri, which operates an abortion clinic in Overland Park, are embroiled in a lawsuit that remains under seal. Neither Kline nor Planned Parenthood have discussed the case, but Kline also obtained records from Planned Parenthood while he was attorney general.

Tiller's attorneys on Friday also asked the Kansas Supreme Court to prevent Tiller from having to turn over the records while the justices decide whether to quash the grand jury's subpoenas. However, barring a quick ruling from the high court, Tiller was supposed to start handing over records Friday.

Tiller attorney Dan Monnat told reporters that the doctor's lawyers found out Kline had been able to obtain the patient names when discovery material was turned over to Tiller in a criminal case filed by Paul Morrison, who replaced Kline as attorney general but has since resigned over a sex scandal. That case against Tiller is still pending.

The grand jury is seeking all health care records of patients who aborted a fetus determined to be 22 weeks or older from July 1, 2003, through Jan. 18 at Tiller's clinic, Women's Health Care Services.

Another subpoena seeks all health care records of each patient who was at least 22 weeks pregnant when she consulted with a physician at the clinic but did not have an abortion.

The grand jury also wants information about past and current employees and patients' referring physicians.

Buchanan on Friday ordered attorneys to comply with all the subpoenas, turning aside arguments that the subpoenas violate the privacy rights of women seeking abortions.

Deputy Sedgwick County District Attorney Ann Swegle told Buchanan she opposed any delays, noting the grand jury is convened for a limited time.

The judge was unmoved by arguments from Tiller's attorneys that employees and doctors would be targeted by abortion protesters if their names were given to the grand jury and later leaked.

Comments

Tom Shewmon 6 years, 2 months ago

Flock, and you may be right, maybe 'ballsy enough' should have been the better phrase to use.

And the La Quinta thing----plain as day, sure many women have to stay cheaply for a few days during this period. There is already enough crap without obsessing over that.

Focus on Tiller, Foulston and Clark, a beneficiary and two obstructionists.....and that's for starters.

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

In recent days, I've become aware of a rather tragic story... a story about a young woman named Christin Gilbert. Christin was a patient of Dr. Tiller--she died from complications following a late-term abortion.

Anyone unfamiliar with this case really should read up on this. I've provided some links here, but you can probably find more.

http://www.operationrescue.org/?p=444

http://justiceforchristin.com/

http://www.cwnews.com/offtherecord/offtherecord.cfm?task=singledisplay&recnum=3372

http://irrevocablechoice.blogspot.com/2005_10_01_archive.html

http://scriptoids.blogspot.com/2005/09/further-invasion-of-christin-gilberts.html

In going through these links, I learned some surprising things about ORW. I learned some surprising things about "focus"... what one side of this argument tends to focus on, and ignore. Conversely, what the other side of this argument tends to focus on, and what things they ignore.

It's a story about bad choices by parents, bad choices by health care professionals, bad choices by law enforcement... bad choices by the media and PR folks, even.

Read up, and draw your own conclusions.

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a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 2 months ago

Ag says, "Could also be that ORW folks left little notes on the windshields of cars parked there overnight."

I can personally attest to those tactics. The USMCR center is (or used to be) located on El Monte in OP. I was showing up to report and they blocked my vehicle, I guess thinking that I was somehow involved with the clinic.

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logicsound04 6 years, 2 months ago

Okay, now I've re-read the article twice and still can't find any mention of any medical-related procedures going on at the La Quinta inn.

The only connection the article makes is that patients of Tiller's clinic also potentially stayed at La Quinta. Since Tiller is one of the few doctors that performs late-term abortions in the country, is it really that insane to assume that these patients couldn't/didn't want to drive back to their hometown on the day of the procedure but were medically cleared from the clinic? After all, one can be in good enough shape to get out of the hospital but unable to drive.

So what are you ranting about ksdivakat?

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

its_getting_warmer (Anonymous) says:

The Kansas Supreme Court today issued a temporary stay on the production of these patient records to the Grand Jury, pending arguments by brief from the attorneys over "significant issues."


"Significant issues."

Maybe like that new game show, "Match Game 2007," hosted by Phillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll kline?

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a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 2 months ago

ksdivakat says, "Thank you for winning my argument for me! That was my point! If nothing illegal was done then turn over the frickin records so a court can decide! Nothing is going to happen one way or another until a court has a chance to look at the records and make a determination:.so if theres nothing to hide:.turn them over, simple as that."

Ummm, I didn't make your point. If they stayed at a hotel, what records would the clinic have. Besides, by your logic, we should just have the police rummage through your house to see if they can find any evidence that any kind of crime, large or small, was committed. If you don't have anything to hide, the I suppose you won't mind the little intrusion.

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

Okay, ksdivakat... I'll spell it out for you, since you don't even see it in your own writing.

I'll put your comments in quotation marks. Try to keep up.

":traveling to have your cancer treated is one thing, traveling to receive an illegal abortion is quite another!"

Abortion is a legal procedure, protected by federal law; however, some states have different laws, regulations etc. that other states do not. Which leads us to your next big stumble over your very own words...

"Why were the patients staying in a hotel when the clinic is right there in Wichita?? Humm:.."

Yesh, "Hmmm" indeed! Maybe because some women travel to Kansas from other states to have abortions, because it's too difficult or too expensive for them to have the procedure closer to home?

I can prove this, too.

"Why would the hotel 'stop' the behavior if nothing underhanded were going on??"

As flock pointed out, it's possible that they were subjected to some rather underhanded tactics by Operation Rescue West. It could've been something as simple as a call to the La Quinta (Inter)National Headquarters or corporate office, and let them know what was going on there. Could also be that ORW folks left little notes on the windshields of cars parked there overnight.

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a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 2 months ago

ksdivakat says, "traveling to have your cancer treated is one thing, traveling to receive an illegal abortion is quite another!"

First off, you are assuming that the abortion was/is illegal. If it is not, then exactly how would they be different?

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ksdivakat 6 years, 2 months ago

Q1. Cause it is a clinic practicing outpatient procedures, maybe?

Thank you for winning my argument for me! That was my point! If nothing illegal was done then turn over the frickin records so a court can decide! Nothing is going to happen one way or another until a court has a chance to look at the records and make a determination....so if theres nothing to hide....turn them over, simple as that.

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its_getting_warmer 6 years, 2 months ago

The Kansas Supreme Court today issued a temporary stay on the production of these patient records to the Grand Jury, pending arguments by brief from the attorneys over "significant issues."

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a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 2 months ago

ksdivakat says, "Why were the patients staying in a hotel when the clinic is right there in Wichita?? Humm:..why would the hotel "stop" the behavior if nothing underhanded were going on??"

Q1. Cause it is a clinic practicing outpatient procedures, maybe?

Q2. Because, for some reason, they did not want to be associated with it and bring the zany Op Rescue boycotts, etc.?

IMHO, the hotel was wrong to do that, but they do reserve the right to refuse service, I suppose.

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ksdivakat 6 years, 2 months ago

a_flock_of_jayhawks ...........you are certainly entitled to your opineion as I am mine......traveling to have your cancer treated is one thing, traveling to receive an illegal abortion is quite another! Why were the patients staying in a hotel when the clinic is right there in Wichita?? Humm.....why would the hotel "stop" the behavior if nothing underhanded were going on??

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a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 2 months ago

R_T says, "user who has bravely chosen to reveal thier identity"

Ummm, if we're talking about the same user, brave is not the word I would use to describe them. But, then, that's probably why we usually end up on opposite sides of issues, R_T.

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tvc 6 years, 2 months ago

Maybe people that live in glass (abusive) homes should not cast stones about other women's decisions.

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a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 2 months ago

R_T says, "A user who has the time and desire to dig up dirt using another users' real name and susequently continually harass and badger that user who has bravely chosen to reveal thier identity should be banned by LJW."

Agreed. Keep in mind, though, that through past LJW posts and crosslinking to other sites, some individuals produce information about themselves that is plain to see.

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a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 2 months ago

ksdivakat says, "or even if the recovery time was done at a hotel then its because they are doing something illegal and underhanded"

That's quite a stretch. I guess we should remember that if anyone ever has to travel to get a medical procedure done and ends up pending the night in a hotel the day before or after the procedure. And from what others have said, it can't be private, so you must announce said procedure and timing via press release and turn over all receipts, etc. to the AG of the state where the procedure was done or if you were under any kind of therapy or medications during your hotel stay.

Tell me what's not wrong with that picture!

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Tom Shewmon 6 years, 2 months ago

Troublemakers like one particular user who is busy on this particular thread are one of the biggest reason why many probably choose to remain unknown.

A user who has the time and desire to dig up dirt using another users' real name and susequently continually harass and badger that user who has bravely chosen to reveal thier identity should be banned by LJW.

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ksdivakat 6 years, 2 months ago

Ag....reread my post and I answered that question. If the abortions were done or even if the recovery time was done at a hotel then its because they are doing something illegal and underhanded.....doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that one out!

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TheOriginalCA 6 years, 2 months ago

Just because shutting down a quack like Tiller does not mean that women will be forced into backyard baby killing clinics. There are plenty of places available to legally kill a baby that won't hurt the female host at all.

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Tom Shewmon 6 years, 2 months ago

Why not, you do it every single post.

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

ksdivakat, why do you think there's a hotel involved?

Think real, real hard about your answer before you post. Don't want you to make an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have.

--Ag

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ksdivakat 6 years, 2 months ago

ok common people.......La Quinta Inn?? La Quinta Inn?? La Quinta Inn???? Does it REALLY take arocket scientist to figure out that this is just wrong!!! Who in the heck in their right mind, goes to get an abortion at a motel?????????!!!!!!!!! That is straight out of hollywood! So my question is this......If this was so legal, why were they done at a no-tell motel?? Secretly and underhanded???

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logicsound04 6 years, 2 months ago

" I fail to see the diffrence between an unborn child & an older child who is killed at the hands of the parent."


Hmmmmm, perhaps we skipped 8th grade biology....

...along with all the other ignorant "abortion is murder" zombies.

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

Abortion should be legal. Abortion should be rare. Abortion should be heavily-regulated by federal, state, and local governments to ensure that is is used only when absolutely necessary, and under the most sterile conditions.

Abortion should not be outlawed.

I agree, kansasjayhawk--it's not a pretty picture. Is it only these late-term abortions that concern you? If so, how do you propose to reduce them?

La Quinta was able to stop the abortions that they knew about. Think about that for a bit.

Do you think Tiller and his staff found a new motel to help them out? Maybe a smaller, dingier hotel that's not quite so clean, not so nice? Do you really think this solves the problem?

I'm not defending any one particular procedure, method, or even TIller himself. I am, however, questioning you, parkay, STRS, gypsynatalie, and anyone else with wild stories and speculation about Tiller. I'm asking the same questions that staff04 has asked. Questions that, without doubt, many others have asked.

1) What proof of any of these allegations exist? People are charged and brought to trial on evidence--not speculation, hearsay, or conjecture. (That is why there's a grand jury in session in Wichita right now)

2) Do you think shutting down Tiller will really put an end to abortion? Do you really think there will be fewer abortions?

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kansanjayhawk 6 years, 2 months ago

Agnostik-- you need to check out the procedure that you are defending. The drug digoxin is injected in the the heart of a late-term fetus (baby) in the fifth, sixth, seventh, and even ninth month. The process involves several days and in some cases the delivery of a dead baby at the motel is involved. This is why the La Quinta Inn upon learning what was going on no longer allowed Tiller to use their facility for what is clearly part of a medical procedure. The bottom line is this is killing a baby. Something our Judeo/Christian tradition stands against. How modern people can justify this kind of violence is beyond me.

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staff04 6 years, 2 months ago

"Tiller broke some laws. One in which he and other doctors didn't report girls who were molested; Girls who were underage and pregnant."

You make a bold assumption that any of these "underage" girls were impregnated within the state of KS...

Are you willing to consider that perhaps none of them were, therefore not subject to the laws of this fine state?

I didn't think so...continue with your agenda now.

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beobachter 6 years, 2 months ago

Satchel, you are making a lot of charges, can you show any verifiable facts for them?

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satchel 6 years, 2 months ago

This has nothing to do with Kline or his views on abortion.

Tiller broke some laws. One in which he and other doctors DIDN'T REPORT GIRLS WHO WERE MOLESTED; Girls who were underage and pregnant.

Tiller and doctors in general are REQUIRED BY LAW to report these things and they didn't. So Morrison thinks that it is o.k. for pedophiles to rape underage girls. It is a crime to have sex with an underage girl in case you didn't know.

Tiller was breaking the law again when he gave late term abortions, i.e. partial birth abortions to women who didn't fit the qualification of 'medical necessity'. Plain and simple, Tiller broke the law and so does Planned Parenthood and Kline is one of the most courageous men I know.

I know, it is hard for the pro choicers to take off their emotional-religious hats and think for a while as to what is really going on here.

Don't worry, your freedom of choice won't be taken away by this. Hopefully, this will end up putting Tiller behind bars and maybe when women want to go in and excersize their freedom to take away the freedom of choice from their child they will get a more responsible murderer.

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Kathy Gragg 6 years, 2 months ago

I have zero sympathy for anyone who would commit the act of abortion. Amazing how most think it is fine when a killer is gunned down or executed but believe a woman who would kills er own child is somehow exempt. I fail to see the diffrence between an unborn child & an older child who is killed at the hands of the parent. I look into the eyes of a child who just turned 6 months old on Saturday. He is a joy everyday. I cannot imagine having been robbed of such by the the selfish act of abortion.

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

kansanjayhawk (Anonymous) says:

"There will never be a call like that Agnostik because such a call did not happen. All of us in the pro-life movement want the simply the Kansas law to be enforced. Using the La Quinta Inn as a facility to complete the abortion process is completely unacceptable and should be brought to light! When that light shines the rats run!"


What proof do you have that the La Quinta was used to "complete the abortion process?"

At what point in the process do you think the women were, shall we say, prematurely released from the main clinic?

Anecdotal evidence? Charges filed? Anything to back up your claims?

Or, like parkay, are you resorting to wild speculation and fantasy to bolster your weak claims?

I suspect that Tiller and his staff probably advised their patients to stay at the hotel the night before their abortion procedure. I suspect that, after the procedure, the women (and their families) were also advised to not attempt their long drives home until they had spent one night, maybe even two, at the hotel, resting and recuperating.

Did a nurse visit them in the hotel room, at least once, following the procedure? If so, how is that different from the visits made by thousands of home health care specialists every day? Nurses, therapists, and caregivers that visit people at home immediately following a surgery... a chemotherapy treatment... or some other procedure? Or a physical therapist who makes a series of visits to the home of someone following surgery, or some sort of trauma, like an automobile accident?

Do you know what a midwife is? Many women give birth in their own homes, with only the aid of a midwife. I don't hear you screaming to have their licenses yanked by performing this dangerous, reckless service. Or do you honestly believe that the birth process is a carefree, low-risk or no-risk experience for a woman?

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org http://www.americanplan.org

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

Don't forget... "armchair child molestor of her own daughter"... according to this link, at least...

http://forums.larryville.com/viewtopic.php?t=35267

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Ralph Reed 6 years, 2 months ago

enforcer (Kathy Gragg) writes: "Yes let them die from coat hanger."

in response to blakus (Anonymous) says: "so enforcer, you would rather have women who choose to have an abortion go through someone who is not liscensed and has no credibility?"

and

ThatGirl2 (Anonymous) "Yes, she would. Please see the other thread where she stated that women who chose to have an abortion (if made illegal) should be "left to bleed to death from the hanger."


Kathy, That comment just cost you any and all credibility you once had. It will be a long time before I again trust what you say.

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ThatGirl2 6 years, 2 months ago

americorps (Anonymous) says:

Thatgirl, she is a fraud, and trash.

That is the understatement of the year. You can also add drug abuser, adultress, attempted bank robber, stalker, and general nut job to the list.

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Kathy Gragg 6 years, 2 months ago

I tell you what if you are correct in your bliefs the you won't be seeing these angels by supporting the slaughter of the unborn.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eggybird/1161478410/

I suspect you will be seing this

http://www.corpse.free-online.co.uk/ant/satan_things/satan_head.jpg

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wino_forever 6 years, 2 months ago

You're not? Psh! You had me at "let them die from a coat hanger."

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Kathy Gragg 6 years, 2 months ago

Thank you I am not a christian. Keep your god off my body.

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wino_forever 6 years, 2 months ago

Kathy, how Christian of you. God bless!

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americorps 6 years, 2 months ago

Thatgirl, she is a fraud, and trash.

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Kathy Gragg 6 years, 2 months ago

Yes let them die from coat hanger.

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ThatGirl2 6 years, 2 months ago

blakus (Anonymous) says:

so enforcer, you would rather have women who choose to have an abortion go through someone who is not liscensed and has no credibility?


Yes, she would. Please see the other thread where she stated that women who chose to have an abortion (if made illegal) should be "left to bleed to death from the hanger."

She's a real gem, that Kathy.

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Godot 6 years, 2 months ago

I hope many of Tiller supporters watched "In the womb" on netgeo tonight.

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beobachter 6 years, 2 months ago

americorps, think you summed it up. parkay and those like him are to be pittied.

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americorps 6 years, 2 months ago

This is nothing more than a witch hunt conducting by liars posing (and posting) as Christians. They are false Christians, liars and have abandonded God and America.

They are a national scourge and a shame of Kansas and of their churches.

They will lie, cheat, steal, bomb, kill to force women to bread as they ignore the fact that priests are even directed to perform abortions in the Bible in the case of adulterous wives.

They will never have honor, morals or truth on their side. The saddest part is that they are continually damning themselves to hell for offering false witness.

They are to be pittied and prayed for.

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kansanjayhawk 6 years, 2 months ago

There will never be a call like that Agnostik because such a call did not happen. All of us in the pro-life movement want the simply the Kansas law to be enforced. Using the La Quinta Inn as a facility to complete the abortion process is completely unacceptable and should be brought to light! When that light shines the rats run!

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Ray Parker 6 years, 2 months ago

The grand jury will have more than enough evidence. We will have the indictments and convictions of criminal abortionist quacks and their killer staff. We will have the guilty in prison. We will have justice.

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

Now that his latest shenanigans have been exposed, it's pretty apparent that the so-called "pro-life" movement's greatest champion, Phill Kline, is taking everyone down the toilet with him.

All it takes is one woman to come forward to the "Kansas City Star"... KCTV... or "Pitch Weekly"... and say, "Why did I get a phone call from Phill Kline's office, asking me about my visit to Planned Parenthood? I thought that was private!"

One woman... and Phill Kline's career, along with the entire Kansas anti-abortion movement... will be over in a matter of days, if not hours.

I predict KCTV-5 will find just such a woman... and they'll do it before June 1st.

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org http://www.americanplan.org

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dirkleisure 6 years, 2 months ago

Kathy, perhaps you failed to notice that former AG Phill Kline had taken the medical records he received from Tiller and cross referenced them with hotel records he subpoenaed from a Wichita hotel.

He also demanded the phone records, home addresses, and home phone numbers from that hotel.

How would you like to receive a phone call from the Attorney General of Kansas questioning your legal abortion at Dr. Tiller's clinic?

Woman's privacy, indeed. If former AG Kline or any of his zealous defenders try to say to you there was no violation of privacy in his quest for private medical records, it is now obvious they are lying. Much like spokesman Brian Burgess lied to this AP reporter.

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beobachter 6 years, 2 months ago

Kathy a fetus is not a baby. It becomes a baby once born. The anti-abortion nuts don't believe that and can't accept fact that there is another point of view on this. All the nuts who signed the petion that started this witch hunt should be required to pay all the costs associated with it. Including all the defense lawyers and associated costs. Let see how many of these people really would do so. Bet the number would be very nearly zero.

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blakus 6 years, 2 months ago

so enforcer, you would rather have women who choose to have an abortion go through someone who is not liscensed and has no credibility? Didn't you read that abortions are occuring at the lowest rate in 30 years?? That is without closing Tiller's practice. Of course the same people that attack Tiller probably attack the contraceptives that women and men are using now adays to prevent unwanted pregnancy...

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Kathy Gragg 6 years, 2 months ago

Obviously people are realizing that a fetus is a baby & that women are being put in danger by men like Tiller. It is about time.

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Crossfire 6 years, 2 months ago

Obviously Klline has this Judge in his pocket. Tiller needs to hire Morrison. Guest star in this episode Wonder Woman.

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