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Archive for Monday, August 18, 2008

No more hugs as Obama tears into McCain

August 18, 2008

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— So much for hugging in church.

A day after Barack Obama and John McCain exchanged an embrace during a faith forum at a California megachurch, Obama called the U.S. economy a disaster thanks to "John McCain's president, George W. Bush," and chided his Republican rival's campaign team for trying to make him look unpatriotic and weak.

At a town hall meeting with several hundred union members, Obama said he had had a great conversation with McCain at the forum at Saddleback Church sponsored by the popular evangelical pastor Rick Warren. The two candidates shook hands, briefly hugged and stood onstage with Warren, the first time they appeared together in public since the end of the primary season.

But Sunday, after praising the Arizona senator as a "genuine American patriot," the Democratic presidential hopeful got back to business - methodically tearing into McCain's health care, tax and energy policies and criticizing his advisers.

"McCain says 'Here's my plan, I'm going to drill here, drill now which is something he only came up with two months ago when he started looking at polling," Obama said of McCain's energy policy.

The GOP hopeful has become a vocal proponent of offshore oil drilling as a way to ease U.S. dependence on foreign oil and has criticized Obama for failing to embrace it as a way to help bring down oil prices. Obama noted that McCain had long opposed lifting the moratorium on offshore drilling.

The Illinois senator also criticized McCain's advisers as "the same old folks that brought you George W. Bush. The same team." He noted many had been lobbyists in Washington before McCain asked them to sever all lobbying ties.

Obama added, "They say this other guy is unpatriotic, or this guy likes French people. That's what they said about Kerry," referring to the 2004 Democratic nominee who lost narrowly to Bush. "They try to make it out like Democrats aren't tough enough, aren't macho enough. It's the same strategy."

McCain spokesman Brian Rogers responded, "John McCain has never questioned Senator Obama's patriotism, but he clearly does question Senator Obama's experience and judgment, and they do have profound differences of opinion on the best way to reduce our dependence on Mideast oil, bring jobs back to America and keep our nation safe."

Earlier this summer, McCain handed day to day operation of his campaign to Steve Schmidt, a veteran GOP strategist who was a spokesman for Bush during the 2004 campaign. Most of his other top advisers are longtime loyalists who have worked for McCain for years.

Even so, Obama stepped to McCain's defense when a voter criticized his Vietnam era record. A Naval aviator, McCain spent 5-1/2 years as a prisoner of war there after being shot down and badly wounded.

"Respectfully I'm going to disagree with you on McCain and his service," Obama said. "I think his service was honorable. He deserves respect."

Comments

Flap Doodle 6 years, 4 months ago

"When McCain accused Obama of being uppity..." Citation, please.Is that what McCain said, or are you putting the U-word in his mouth?

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

jhwk2008..."I'm just fighting lies with lies."So everytime you make a ridiculous accusation unsupported by objective facts I can say Obama is a Muslim that wants to impose Islamic law on America?

acg 6 years, 4 months ago

I love how you guys insist on posting his entire name in your little diatribes. Barrack Hussein Obama. Like we're going to forget his name. If you're trying to hammer home the fact that he has a Muslim name, don't waste your time. For those of us that know it, and don't care, that lame little shot isn't going to have any affect. For those of us that are dumb enough to freak out over his name, well we weren't counting on their votes anyway because they're ignorant sheep and sheep always follow the herd, regardless of what is right.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 4 months ago

A gauntlet full of aragula has been cast down. lolz!

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Obama's message: Vote against the Republicans, don't look at the particular candidate, oh and ignore the fact I lack any experience or judgment. What happened to being above "politics of the past." Just another flip-flop for Obama. I can't believe anyone would believe the rhetoric that comes out of his:mouth. If you believe his non-sense, the real question is which non-sense to you believe since his contradicts himself on a weekly basis."But the Illinois senator, introduced in San Francisco by House of Representatives speaker Nancy Pelosi as a "leader that God has blessed us with at this time,""Looks like the Dems are back to believing Obamanation is the "Anointed one"

Mkh 6 years, 4 months ago

You guys are wasting far to much energy on this. It's not going to make a difference if McCain or Obama get elected. Nothing will change.The debt will rise, economy sink, the government will get bigger, national sovereignty lossed and wars spread farther no matter which one of these tools gets appointed to power.

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Isn't it odd that people who support Obama have no idea what "change" he is talking about. Or advocate his ever changing policies.

staff04 6 years, 4 months ago

Oh, and before you go there, RR, yes, I have read it. I walked over to the RNC headquarters on Friday where they were handing it out on the sidewalk. Part of those bulk sales that made it a bestseller, no doubt.

scott3460 6 years, 4 months ago

Mccain's simplistic answer on abortion, while serving the purpose of throwing red meat to the conservative base, will likely come to haunt him with mainstream and independent voters, especially women. Life begins at conception? That's a position fraught with complications for Gramps. No doubt he hasn't considered them. Do we need another C- student in the White House. Hasn't george shown the folly in electing the dumb guy? http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1833496,00.html

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

"Group tied to al-Qaida backs McCain for prez"'They will do all they can to turn Kosovo into a jihadist camp in the heart of Europe'http://wnd.com/index.php?pageId=57678How come McCain has never refuted this? It must be true. Restore, you are a lying bigot. See, it says it on this blog.http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/aug/16/obama_rebuffs_authors_attack/Oh, and McCain was born in Panama. Therefore, according to your logic, he isn't an American.

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Isn't John McCain the Manchurian Candidate? He will destroy America.Senator John McCain was tortured and brainwashed by the communistsfor over 5 years. Regardless of what you may have been told, or what you maybelieve, no one, not anyone on this earth can withstand torture andbrainwashing without breaking down, giving up information, and permanentdamage to the mind... usually to traditional belief systems and thoughtprocesses in the areas of religion, philosophy, and politics.By his own admission Senator John McCain, while a POW, traded information for special medical treatment which no other POW received. He made publicstatements while a POW detrimental to the United States Navy and the UnitedStates of America.Many brainwashing victims become fractured personalities programmed toperform some task or tasks in the future. Their programming can be activatedby audio, visual, or other types of stimulation. These are facts notconjecture. Anyone can confirm these facts with a little research.Remember, what is known about torture and brainwashing is old information,and it is terrifying. I have no access to what is still kept secret. I haveno knowledge of what can be done to a victim using the state of the arttechniques which are held in the strictest secrecy by all nations.I doubt that Senator McCain knows the extent of the damage done to hismind... and according to all the studies and facts available concerningtorture and brainwashing he could not have anything other than a damagedmind. The movie may have been fiction... but Senator John McCain is withoutany doubt the real Manchurian Candidate.When I look at his voting record in the United States Senate I do not see aconservative Republican. I see a record that reveals a closet socialist, aproponent of the New World Order.http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg15942.html

Boeing 6 years, 4 months ago

Connecting McCain to Bush is only going to win over the people who would already vote for Obama. Pointless...Maybe McCain DID know the questions in advance, maybe he didn't. If he did, it's about the first time he's had an advantage after Obama's countless unfair advantages this election. I can't wait for this junk to be over.

BuffyloGal 6 years, 4 months ago

Isn't it odd that the same people who complain about Obama's connection to Indonesia, and therefore don't acknowledge the contributions of his American mother to his upbringing, are also the same people who complain about how migrants to this country refuse to assimilate instead maintaining the traditions and language of their parents' country of origin. Odd.

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

The political blogs on this site have digressed into people talking at each other, rather than to each other. The Dems just want to throw out ridiculous accusations to get someone to bite so they can focus the conversation on McCain. No one wants to have a discussion or a debate about the issues, and whether a candidate has the necessary experience or judgment to be Commander-in-Chief, Leader of the Free World, and POTUS.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 4 months ago

Jhwk is "swiftboating McCain, just likehe lamented about Kerry 4 years ago:"Senator John McCain was tortured and brainwashed by the communistsfor over 5 years. Regardless of what you may have been told, or what you maybelieve, no one, not anyone on this earth can withstand torture andbrainwashing without breaking down, giving up information, and permanentdamage to the mind: usually to traditional belief systems and thoughtprocesses in the areas of religion, philosophy, and politics.By his own admission Senator John McCain, while a POW, traded information for special medical treatment which no other POW received. He made publicstatements while a POW detrimental to the United States Navy and the United States of America."Guess if it is "your guy" it is bad, and if it is "your guy" doing the "Swiftbaoting" I guess it is OK then?

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

scott...."Life begins at conception?"So what do you call it when conception happens? Of course life begins at conception. The question is does this living embryo, human, whatever you want to call it, have any rights? And if they dont' have rights at that time when do they have rights?

dirkleisure 6 years, 4 months ago

RestoreReason (Anonymous) says:I see that the effeminate men who run the Messiah's campaign...--------------------------------------------Yes, vote for McCain. His campaign staff is made up of manly men who do manly things in manly ways.The McCain campaign is headquartered in a cave! McCain's staff kills its own breakfast. McCain's campaign staff likes to lighten the mood by farting lightening bolts at each other and hurling boulders at homosexuals and IT nerds.Every evening after a hard day of manly campaigning, the McCain staff strips down and rubs oil on each other to cover their chiseled abs and massive chests. Manly!

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

ASBESTOS (Anonymous) says: "Guess if it is "your guy" it is bad, and if it is "your guy" doing the "Swiftbaoting" I guess it is OK then?"Not really. See, unlike those who believe that the Swift Boaters were telling the truth or those that believe that Obama is a secret Muslim, I don't believe that McCain is the Manchurian Candidate. I'm just fighting lies with lies.

Boeing 6 years, 4 months ago

Clint Gentry and everyone who thinks McCain was foreign born - John McCain was born at Coco Solo NAS. A UNITED STATES military base...meaning it is US land. If someone was born at, say, Rammstein Air Base in Germany, they were born on US property. Same thing if someone was born inside the US Embassy in, say, Italy. Section 1401 of Title 8 of the US Code states that anyone born in/on a US possesion (such as Coco Solo NAS) is born a US citizen if at least one parent is a US citizen. With regards to becoming Prez, anyone who falls into the parameters outlined in Section 1401 of Title 8 is eligible to become President...meaning McCain.Research...it's a great thing. Do it sometimes.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 4 months ago

So McCain didn't actually say 'uppity'. Just wanted to be clear on that. Fake but accurate, Kenneth?Great Pumpkin help us if the O'dude becomes President and the White House teleprompter goes out during a crisis. It'd be like watching Howdy Doody with all of his strings cut.

beatrice 6 years, 4 months ago

I'm with RestoreReason on this one. I think we should all agree not to vote for John Kerry in the upcoming election. That will teach him for being a veteran. Parkay, you shouldn't cut and paste so much. Your shorter posts are easier to scroll past.

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Logicsound04:"Oh, so a sperm is not living? An egg?"Most of the time I disagree with you but at least you have decent arguments. This time is the exception.Are you suggesting that when and sperm and egg combine it doesn't create a new living entity? Even if we assumed that an egg is alive, it is clear something unique is created when the sperm and egg combine.

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Boeing (Anonymous) says:"Clint Gentry - when I said that McCain was born on US property, and clearly pointed out that that made him a natural born citizen, ... ."Boeing, that isn't entirely true. "A Hint of New Life to a McCain Birth Issue""In the most detailed examination yet of Senator John McCain's eligibility to be president, a law professor at the University of Arizona has concluded that neither Mr. McCain's birth in 1936 in the Panama Canal Zone nor the fact that his parents were American citizens is enough to satisfy the constitutional requirement that the president must be a "natural-born citizen."http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/us/politics/11mccain.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1219082957-0jjVieRc7ErmbNmONyvplgAnd here's the paper itself."Why Senator John McCain Cannot Be President: Eleven Months and a Hundred Yards Short of Citizenship"Gabriel J. Chin, University of Arizona - James E. Rogers College of Law; Arizona Legal Studies Discussion Paper No. 08-14 "Abstract: Senator McCain was born in 1936 in the Canal Zone to U.S. citizen parents. The Canal Zone was territory controlled by the United States, but it was not incorporated into the Union. As requested by Senator McCain's campaign, distinguished constitutional lawyers Laurence Tribe and Theodore Olson examined the law and issued a detailed opinion offering two reasons that Senator McCain was a natural born citizen. Neither is sound under current law."http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract-id=1157621However, although he may or may not be an American citizen, I believe that the Framer's would have intended that John McCain be an American citizen.

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Satirical (Anonymous) says: "Where in the quote does it say what he was going to say:.the individual quoted does state why he believes he stopped mid-sentence, but not what he was going to say."So saying "Obama started to say" and "Obama was going to say" are completely dissimilar? You're joking right?Have you even seen the video? He stopped because the audience applauded after he said he would not nominate Clarence Thomas.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfblJvKXiP0So, did I start to say or was I going to say that you are an idiot?

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

beatrice..."Satirical, I'm quite sure you are mistaken about which candidate is wearing diapers. I guess it all "Depends" on the situation"Now that is funny.

dirkleisure 6 years, 4 months ago

"Out of the other he sends minions out like Wesley-blood on his hands, screw everything up in Bosnia-Clark"What is your opinion of the generals who planned and executed the invasion of Iraq, oh blood on his hands animal?

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Satirical, haven't we been through John McCain's experience? This comes directly from his web page. "John has led the fight for reforming Washington, eliminating wasteful government spending, and strengthening our nation's armed forces."Reforming Washington: failureEliminating wasteful government spending: failureStrengthening our nation's armed forces: even"John McCain's reform agenda to reduce federal spending and lower taxes quickly elevated him to statewide office ..."This sentence doesn't say he actually did anything; it says he had an agenda.Have an agenda: pass"McCain continued to demand that Congress put an end to loopholes for special interests and fix the broken system in Washington that too often allows lobbyists to write legislation and members of Congress to waste taxpayer money."Demand that Congress put an end to loopholes for special interests: 1) Demand: more research required 2) End loopholes for special interests: failure (See Phil Gramm's Enron Loophole)Fix the broken in system in Washington that too often allows lobbyists to write legislation and members of Congress to waste taxpayer money: failureSo John McCain accomplished having an "agenda" in the 25+ years he's been in Washington?

dirkleisure 6 years, 4 months ago

But, Satirical, your complaint was about Obama's four years in the US Senate as compared to McCain's lengthy stay.So you obviously prefer the experience of a career politician.

dirkleisure 6 years, 4 months ago

So, Satirical, it is some sort of mystery experience that Obama needs to achieve before he has the experience needed to be President?Does John McCain have the experience needed to be President? This is a relevant question, given there are only two choices and experience appears to be a compelling issue.

crane13 6 years, 4 months ago

no comments this time of night. everyone must be at quintons

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Dirkleisure:"Apparently this country needs more career politicians, right Satirical?"What a surprise, a liberal is trying to put words in my mouth. I don't care if the experience comes from the private sector or government as long as the candidate has the necessary experience. In fact I thought Mitt Romney should have received the Republican nominee and he has zero experience in Washington, but he does have experience.Obama on the other hand, was a community organizer, spent a few years in the state legislature, and been in the U.S. senate for half a term, most of which was running for POTUS. Yet he condemns Justice Thomas for his lack of experience!

dirkleisure 6 years, 4 months ago

Funny, that's not how Satirical answered when I asked, "If Obama had as many years in the Senate as John McCain then he would have the necessary experience?"It is a simple equation - if John McCain has the necessary "experience" from spending his entire professional life in Washinton, DC as a career politician, then obviously if Obama would take some time and become more entrenched in DC, become a career politician like McCain and his buddies like Pat Roberts and Ted Stevens, then he would be ready to be President.Can't have it both ways.

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Satirical says:Jwhk2008:"Satirical, haven't we been through John McCain's experience?""Yes we have, and I have proven you assessment was without merit."Actually, you haven't although you would like to think so. You have not "supported your argument with facts."

Boeing 6 years, 4 months ago

Clint Gentry - when I said that McCain was born on US property, and clearly pointed out that that made him a natural born citizen, where did you get that I said he was not born in the USA? I was actually pointing out the exact opposite...I never stated that I was voting for McCain or Obama. To be honest, I don't know yet - it's too early, both can screw up big time before November. Terribly sorry for stating facts instead of biased opinions.

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Satirical (Anonymous) says: "When Obama was faced with a difficult decision he advocated against the surge claiming it would make things worse."There you go again Satirical, just making stuff up. Did he say that the surge "would make things worse" or did he say that the surge wouldn't work?Maybe you should start adding the word "polygamy" to your posts?

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Correction: "However, since Obama was probably still in diapers when this decision was made it plays no relevance to a decision (both McCain and) Obama (were) faced with."

Rationalanimal 6 years, 4 months ago

"Respectfully I'm going to disagree with you on McCain and his service," Obama said. "I think his service was honorable. He deserves respect."...out of one side of his mouth. Out of the other he sends minions out like Wesley--blood on his hands, screw everything up in Bosnia--Clark to slander an "actual" war hero. I frankly don't like John McCain. He is a two-faced shrew with an explosive temper. Barrack Milhous Obama, however, is a two-faced upstart afraid to be genuinely honest about what he really believes that has done nothing in his life other than get potty-trained and find the senate men's room.Milhous has been peddling race division since his campaign started by sitting in the pews of Trinity United Church of Christ and allowing his mind to be filled with liberation theology crap. Wright's voice is rage, Obama's is the soft siren disguised in terms like hope, change, equality, and redistribution. Their message is the same.

dirkleisure 6 years, 4 months ago

Windlass (Anonymous) says:Mr. Obama isn't yet four years out of the Illinois state Senate-I truly believe that that's a good thing, too. Barak Obama hasn't had the 20 to 40 years in our nation's capitol that corrupts men.---Unfortunately, there are some who would prefer a career politician as President. Apparently this country needs more career politicians, right Satirical?

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Windlass..."The United States is a Democracy, not a Theocracy."The sky is blue. Water is wet!

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

jhwk2008..."There you go again Satirical, just making stuff up. Did he say that the surge "would make things worse" or did he say that the surge wouldn't work?"Thank you for again illustrating our ignorance on this topic. It is like a full-time job proving you wrong all the time. http://blogsforjohnmccain.com/obama-says-he-would-still-oppose-iraq-surge-strategy-if-he-had-it-do-over-again-video-72208If the video proof isn't good enough I can provide quoted text.

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

"Pastor Rick Warren asked each Presidential candidate which Justices he would not have nominated. Mr. McCain said, "with all due respect" the four most liberal sitting Justices because of his different judicial philosophy.Mr. Obama took a lower road, replying first that "that's a good one," and then adding that "I would not have nominated Clarence Thomas. I don't think that he, I don't think that he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation. Setting aside the fact that I profoundly disagree with his interpretation of a lot of the Constitution."So let's see. By the time he was nominated, Clarence Thomas had worked in the Missouri Attorney General's office, served as an Assistant Secretary of Education, run the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and sat for a year on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, the nation's second most prominent court. Since his "elevation" to the High Court in 1991, he has also shown himself to be a principled and scholarly jurist.Meanwhile, as he bids to be America's Commander in Chief, Mr. Obama isn't yet four years out of the Illinois state Senate, has never held a hearing of note of his U.S. Senate subcommittee, and had an unremarkable record as both a "community organizer" and law school lecturer. Justice Thomas's judicial credentials compare favorably to Mr. Obama's Presidential resume by any measure. And when it comes to rising from difficult circumstances, Justice Thomas's rural Georgian upbringing makes Mr. Obama's story look like easy street.Even more troubling is what the Illinois Democrat's answer betrays about his political habits of mind. Asked a question he didn't expect at a rare unscripted event, the rookie candidate didn't merely say he disagreed with Justice Thomas. Instead, he instinctively reverted to the leftwing cliche that the Court's black conservative isn't up to the job while his white conservative colleagues are.So much for civility in politics and bringing people together. And no wonder Mr. Obama's advisers have refused invitations for more such open forums, preferring to keep him in front of a teleprompter, where he won't let slip what he really believes."http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121901817146948231.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Satirical says:"Pastor Rick Warren asked each Presidential candidate which Justices he would not have nominated. Mr. McCain said, "with all due respect" the four most liberal sitting Justices because of his different judicial philosophy."How did he answer so fast? It looks like he may have known the questions."Despite Assurances, McCain Wasn't in a 'Cone of Silence'""Senator John McCain was not in a "cone of silence" on Saturday night while his rival, Senator Barack Obama, was being interviewed at the Saddleback Church in California.Members of the McCain campaign staff, who flew here Sunday from California, said Mr. McCain was in his motorcade on the way to the church as Mr. Obama was being interviewed by the Rev. Rick Warren, the author of the best-selling book "The Purpose Driven Life."Mr. Warren, the pastor of Saddleback, had assured the audience while he was interviewing Mr. Obama that "we have safely placed Senator McCain in a cone of silence" and that he could not hear the questions.After Mr. Obama's interview, he was joined briefly by Mr. McCain, and the candidates shook hands and embraced.Mr. Warren started by asking Mr. McCain, "Now, my first question: Was the cone of silence comfortable that you were in just now?"Mr. McCain deadpanned, "I was trying to hear through the wall."Interviewed Sunday on CNN, Mr. Warren seemed surprised to learn that Mr. McCain was not in the building during the Obama interview."

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Windlass:"Satirical is entirely absorbed into the self-interests of Satirical."You have just won a Typical Liberal LJWorld Blogger Award for this baseless accusation. Congratulations, what are you going to do with this prize? Add it to your collection?

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Correction:"No we proved his misstatement (didn't have) any relevance."

dirkleisure 6 years, 4 months ago

Don't mess with independent newspaper publishers. They are manly men, except for the female ones.

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Satirical (Anonymous) says: "Obama started to say that Justice Thomas didn't have enough 'experience' for the Supreme Court. In mid-sentence, when Obama realized that he himself has far less experience for the presidency than Justice Thomas had for the court in 1991, he shifted and said Justice Thomas 'was not a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time,'" said Long, a former Senate aide whose conservative group works to get "highly qualified" justices confirmed to the bench."Hilarious. Somehow Fox News knows what Obama was going to say? Just hilarious.

bad_dog 6 years, 4 months ago

"You broached the topic of Matthew Lyon in this thread about Obama and McCain, not I, squirt. Therefore, the onus was on you to post a link."Hmm, so far you've referred to me in this thread as "extremely ignorant", "Einstein" and now "squirt". Whatever... While you're eager to "discuss" Lyon, you still haven't addressed the moral imperfections of McCain. Should I research your archives to verify whether you've previously posted on this issue as well?All this arose from your mispelling of a family member's name. No matter the basis for your inaccurate spelling I still have no duty to vet your every utterance. I initially broached the topic in the subject article last Friday. You didn't respond for four days so I asked again yesterday. If you've addressed the topic of Lyon so many times before, I would think this was common knowledge and you wouldn't feel compelled to footnote your lineage. As for whether I have an "onus" to post a link for you, please enlighten me as to the rules of cyber correspondence from which you drew this pearl. You are the one expecting all readers to either know the history of your posts or to research your archives. That's simply absurd."Didn't get your call. I'm not surprised."Again, as soon as you corrected your erroneous spelling, I was able to research the appropriate person. I need nothing further from you regarding Lyon. I'm certain meeting you to "discuss" anything-whether spelling, politics, morality, your ancestry or veiled threats-would only constitute an additional waste of my time.

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Or do you want to look at judgment Satirical?McCain: On the March 12, 2003, edition of MSNBC's Hardball, host Chris Matthews asked McCain: "Do you believe that the people of Iraq or at least a large number of them will treat us as liberators?" McCain answered: "Absolutely. Absolutely."On the March 24, 2003, edition of Hardball -- several days after the U.S.-led coalition had invaded Iraq -- McCain said: "[T]here's no doubt in my mind that we will prevail and there's no doubt in my mind, once these people are gone, that we will be welcomed as liberators."Didn't Barack Obama illustrate excellent judgment by opposing the Iraq war?

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Satirical says: "Yet he condemns Justice Thomas for his lack of experience!"Wow, so do you make stuff up on purpose? Being a strong legal jurist or legal thinker has nothing to do with experience. Obama: "I would not have nominated Clarence Thomas. I don't think he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation."Satirical says..."Have you thought of the alternative that McCain is intelligent and despite his age has a quick mind."Like when he thought Czechoslovakia was still a country? Didn't I pwn you a few days ago regarding this?

Haiku_Cuckoo 6 years, 4 months ago

"John McCain's president, George W. Bush,"Does Obama hear his own words??Obama voted for a 2005 energy bill backed by President Bush that included billions in subsidies for oil and natural gas production, a measure for which Vice President Dick Cheney played a major role. McCain opposed the bill, saying at the time that it included billions in unnecessary tax breaks for the oil industry.Just a few weeks ago Obama voted for Bush's wire-tapping bill. McCain did not.http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5isOFwdbq0tsqatW6vJpkDRTI1gMgD92C87G80http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/23/barackobama.uselections20081

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Lots of major typos today, correction: "Thank you for again illustrating (y)our ignorance on this topic."

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Jwhk2008:"Satirical, haven't we been through John McCain's experience?"Yes we have, and I have proven you assessment was without merit. Your definition success or failure would also mean Martin Luther King Jr. is a failure for civil rights. Also, way to support your argument with facts. Just what I expect from liberals.

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Jhwk2008:"How did he answer so fast? It looks like he may have known the questions."Of course when McCain shows quicker whit, and gets to the point he is accused of "cheating." Have you thought of the alternative that McCain is intelligent and despite his age has a quick mind. As opposed to Obama who rambles on for a while before he gets to his point. Maybe more debates or public discussion would be helpful to get to know the candidates better. But of course Obama refused this because he knows it will show him unscripted and will look like a fool, or revert to his true beliefs which are so liberal he would scare even Hollywood.

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Beatrice:"The American people will remember that McCain was one of the first and one of the most vocal supporters of George Bush's war in Iraq to find WMDs."I think they will also remember that many democrats also supported this based on the information at the time. However, since Obama was probably still in diapers when this decision was made it plays no relevance to a decision Obama was faced with.When Obama was faced with a difficult decision he advocated against the surge claiming it would make things worse. Judgment:.I don't think so. John McCain however, was one of the strongest advocates for the surge.

scott3460 6 years, 4 months ago

uppity: taking liberties or assuming airs beyond one's station; presumptuous. "There has been a very intentional effort to paint him as somebody outside the mainstream, other, 'he's not one of us,'" said Gergen, who has worked with White Houses, both Republican and Democrat, from Nixon to Clinton. "I think the McCain campaign has been scrupulous about not directly saying it, but it's the subtext of this campaign. Everybody knows that. There are certain kinds of signals. As a native of the south, I can tell you, when you see this Charlton Heston ad, 'The One,' that's code for, 'he's uppity, he ought to stay in his place.' Everybody gets that who is from a southern background. We all understand that."

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 6 years, 4 months ago

"Barack Obama and John McCain exchanged an embrace during a faith forum at a California megachurch",8-)

Flap Doodle 6 years, 4 months ago

The O'dude has pulled a lot of DC insiders into his team. Is that the change he was hoping for?

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Jhwk2008:"Doesn't this fail your standard of "supporting an argument with facts?""No.

bad_dog 6 years, 4 months ago

Like I said above Kevin, I don't hang on your every post or read every article published in the online LJW. After all these are YOUR words I quoted from YOUR August 15, 2008 post. Was that so far in your remote past you didn't recall a specific quote made just 4 short days ago? At 1:32 p.m. today I specifically stated: "No-Kevin, you are the ignorant one. Below is YOUR post commenting on Keilor's article." Note the reference to "Keilor's article". How many times have you cited the Sedition Act in reference to a Garrison Keilor op-ed?In addition to your memory loss and confusion, do you also suffer from restlessness, problems with perception, difficulty with speech, trouble moving, and fearing things that are not there? Given you appear to suffer many of these symptoms, I recommend a visit to your favorite Neurologosist for an Alzheimer's work-up. God-speed, Kevin. Now, if you'll behave, I'll release you from blackboard duty as long as you promise to go to your place of business, er basement, to get the latest edition of the Kaw Valley Senior Monthly into print on schedule.

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Satirical says: "So let's see. By the time he was nominated, Clarence Thomas had worked in the Missouri Attorney General's office, served as an Assistant Secretary of Education, run the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and sat for a year on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, the nation's second most prominent court. Since his "elevation" to the High Court in 1991, he has also shown himself to be a principled and scholarly jurist."Doesn't this fail your standard of "supporting an argument with facts?"

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Jwhk2008:I understand, you can't defend Obama, and no one else can so they resort to the "politics of the past" and attack McCain. You know as well as I that Obama lacks the experience and judgment to be the next Commander in Chief and POTUS. You are heading towards a mirage in Obama, but what you will get is an Obamanation (abomination).McCain was right. A large number of Iraqis did greet us as liberators. We are prevailing due to the surge that McCain advocated and Obama opposed."Didn't Barack Obama illustrate excellent judgment by opposing the Iraq war?" jhwk2008You mean his opposition to a war the most democrats supported, after reviewing information to which he didn't have access? I guess I know a janitor and a few other crackpots who have the same experience as Obama. What about his "judgment" to oppose the surge saying it would make the situation worse?

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Jhwk2008:I thought your "work is done here?" Guess you just decided to dodge Obama's lack on judgment on the surge, and his opposition to the invasion of Iraq is meaningless. And want to cry foul when McCain clearly showed a quicker whit and gets to the point faster than Obamanation. "Being a strong legal jurist or legal thinker has nothing to do with experience." - jhwkThis was code for saying Thomas was not ready for the position. "Obama started to say that Justice Thomas didn't have enough 'experience' for the Supreme Court. In mid-sentence, when Obama realized that he himself has far less experience for the presidency than Justice Thomas had for the court in 1991, he shifted and said Justice Thomas 'was not a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time,'" said Long, a former Senate aide whose conservative group works to get "highly qualified" justices confirmed to the bench.http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/18/conservatives-slam-obamas-answer-about-supreme-court-justices-at-saddleback-forum/"Like when he thought Czechoslovakia was still a country? Didn't I pwn you a few days ago regarding this?" - jhwkNo we proved his misstatement had any relevance. But I guess it would be silly for me to expect a liberal to remember mistakes of the past and to learn from them. Care to continue to talk about which camps Obama's grand-father liberated in WWII, or which committees Obama is on? Didn't think so:

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Satirical says:"McCain was right. A large number of Iraqis did greet us as liberators."And my work is done here. Hilarious.

bad_dog 6 years, 4 months ago

"Bad_dog:Hey, Einstein, I discussed that Matthew Lyon was imprisoned by President Adams under the Sedition Act of 1898. Even if I had inadvertently put an "s" at the end of Lyon, even you, with your limited ability to think, should have been able to figure out that Lyon was not a colonel in the Confederacy more than six decades later. God gave you a brain-try using it once in awhile."-RedundantRhetoricCome on Kevin, you're making this too easy. Even your attempts at insulting me are pathetically hilarious.Here is the pertinent portion of your quote from the subject post:"Not all wretches are terrorists. I can't feel sorry for any "poor manacled wretch at Guantanamo." Characterizing terrorists as such demeans the memory of Matthew Lyons (my ancestor), Japanese-Americans, and others that this government locked up merely because of what they said or who they were. The terrorists are held in Gitmo for what they have done."Where in that post (and it was your only post on that op-ed) did you state "Matthew Lyon was imprisoned by President Adams under the Sedition Act of 1898"?Don't flatter yourself by thinking I spend any more time reading your posts than that required to address them, if topical. I certainly don't research your archived posts unless I believe you contradicted yourself-again. Perhaps you posted that under one of your earlier incarnations?Speaking of addressing something topical, still nothing from you regarding McCain's moral imperfections... I'm surprised you haven't sputtered but, but, Clinton, yet.Now, get your upturned nose back to the blackboard before I call the School Resource Officer. Don't forget the Dunce cap-you're especially deserving today.

dirkleisure 6 years, 4 months ago

3 and a half months? Still a lie and you know it.

jonas 6 years, 4 months ago

Satirical: I had a thought or two on your two definitions, if you feel up to discussing them. Probably not tonight, I imagine.

dirkleisure 6 years, 4 months ago

RR - you military post is a parody, right? John Kerry was in Vietnam for only 3 months? Lie.And McCain's "experience" in VietNam was 5 1/2 years? Should Kerry have been captured in order to up his Presidential credentials?

bad_dog 6 years, 4 months ago

"Bad_dog:Wow, you're extremely ignorant. Col. Matthew Lyon died several decades before the Civil War, so he did not serve in the Confederacy."-RedundantRhetoricNo-Kevin, you are the ignorant one. Below is YOUR post commenting on Keilor's article." Characterizing terrorists as such demeans the memory of Matthew Lyons (my ancestor),..."Note: YOU spelled the name L-Y-O-N-S-not I. Now, some 4 days after I called you on it, you tell me it is spelled Lyon. My research was dependent upon your faulty spelling, so go draw a circle on the chalkboard and stick your nose in it until I tell you to return to your seat.It is interesting to note that "Lyon had the distinction of being the first member to have an ethics violation charge filed against him when he was accused of 'gross indecency' for spitting on Roger Griswold of Connecticut after an exchange of insults"... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_LyonGiven your typical demeanor on these boards, it isn't far-fetched to consider you his descendant after all.In the meantime, make good use of your time at the board by reflecting on your own moral imperfections, as it appears neither you or McCain want to address his self-professed shortcomings.

leftlawrenceafter30years 6 years, 4 months ago

Here's an interesting blog: http://bilia.wordpress.com/Corsi is not all he claims to be either. He's another nutcase from the Swiftboat crew.Check out the story about Cindy McCains claim to be an only child-not.I hear the media talk about why Obama isn't able to close the deal yet they don't talk about how McCain with all of his years in the public eye hasn't been able to either. Let the voters decide in November-that is the only poll that will count.McCain is not someone I want to have as president, especially with his temper and his pandering.I am voting for Obama!

bad_dog 6 years, 4 months ago

"And McCain addressed his first marriage during Saturday's forum."-RedundantRhetoric"My greatest moral failing, and I have been a very imperfect person, is the failure of my first marriage."-John MCCainWhile McCain may have "addressed" the issue, all he did was pay lip service to his "greatest moral failing". Note the period at the end of the quote-that was it-19 words, 21% of which encompass restating the question, 42% involve his allusion to overall moral imperfection. The beginning and end of the "greatest moral failure" short story. He then left the topic faster than Usain Bolt in the Men's 100 meter race. Shame on Rick Warren for enabling the hasty departure and failing to follow-up. Why was this his greatest moral failure? What led to this tragedy? How has he reconciled this with himself and the others affected by his failure? In what other ways is he a very imperfect person? I'm also puzzled why a North Vietnamese prison guard would draw a crucifix in the dirt for McCain. Was it merely intended to mock McCain's religion, or truly so the two could worship together? Either conclusion is not unreasonable. It's a little hard to understand why a prison guard would risk everything-abandoning his own belief system, to "worship" with a prisoner on a solitary occasion. Given reports indicate Saturday's disclosure was the first time this aspect of the story was divulged, did McCain previously overlook this detail or consider it insignificant? Or is it just an embellishment intended to pander to evangelists? And Kevin, I'm still waiting for your explanation of how the never married, U.S. soldier turned Confederate Matthew Lyons was an "ascendent" of yours. For you to be a "descendant" of Lyons, you would have to be child, grandchild, etc. Did Lyons father children out of wedlock or were you just mistaken? Just wondering.

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Restore, why do you hate America? You are obviously supporting the Manchurian Candidate. You must be a socialist who wants to destroy America.

bad_dog 6 years, 4 months ago

Oh, let me add "coward" to the your list of elementary school insults. If your opinion on any other topic was meaningful to me, I just might give a damn what you thought about me personally. Just because I chose not to seek you out for a "discussion" as you put it, doesn't mean I won't defend myself effectively if needed. "It is a moral failure, but not as great as a married president having sex with an intern 27 years his junior in our White House." I knew the but, but, Clinton, reference would come in somewhere. Please post the link to the continuum of moral failures. In my opinion, both acts should be decried equally. There is no moral high ground for either man.Coming from someone who has been "disappeared" in several prior incarnations, your posts about forum rules are both hypocritical and hilarious. As for the rest of your post, it has as much meaning to me as any of the rest of your rhetoric-zip. Plain and simple.

bad_dog 6 years, 4 months ago

RR:I just reviewed the use policy agreement and it appears you are correct regarding the above referenced issue. I was not aware of that as numerous others have addressed you by name. For that I apologize. I will not do so again.As you can see I am "man" enough to acknowledge and apologize for my errors.

daddax98 6 years, 4 months ago

"Obama on the other hand, was a community organizer, spent a few years in the state legislature, and been in the U.S. senate for half a term, most of which was running for POTUS. Yet he condemns Justice Thomas for his lack of experience!"The office of POTUS is term limited the SCOTUS is a life time appointment. Don't you think that makes a bit of difference?

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Jwhk2008:"Somehow Fox News knows what Obama was going to say?"Yeah, a news organization quoting someone's opinion; that is ridiculous.Where in the quote does it say what he was going to say:.the individual quoted does state why he believes he stopped mid-sentence, but not what he was going to say. You dodge issues with the capacity of Obama. What happened to all those other issues we were talking about....guess they are all resolved.

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

dirkleisure (Anonymous) says: "So Satirical, if Obama had as many years in the Senate as John McCain then he would have the necessary experience?""I don't care if the experience comes from the private sector or government as long as the candidate has the necessary experience. In fact I thought Mitt Romney should have received the Republican nomin(ation), and he has zero experience in Washington, but he does have experience." Satirical at 11:19

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Dirkleisure:."But, Satirical, your complaint was about Obama's four years in the US Senate as compared to McCain's lengthy stay."But dirkleisure, you obviously can't read because I didn't compare Obama's experience with McCain's. Again, nice try to put words in my mouth. This is tactic most people loose when they know they can't make a coherent argument. Since you cannot defend Obama's lack of experience you must resort to childish games. I understand:you are desparate.

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

Satirical, I started to say that you are an idiot, but did I?

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

jhwk2008..."See how I can admit when I'm wrong, unlike you."If I am ever wrong I will admit it. Actually I was wrong once, it was a long time ago when I thought I made a mistake : )

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Dirkleisure:"So, Satirical, it is some sort of mystery experience that Obama needs to achieve before he has the experience needed to be President?"Again, he could gain experience in a variety of ways to make his candidacy more appealing. I think if in 8 years he gets more experience he would be a much more appealing candidate. If you owned a company and wanted to hire a CEO, wouldn't you want him to have some minimal level of experience? "Does John McCain have the experience needed to be President?" dirkYes. Of course my guess is you are still trying to bait me so you can twist my words into claiming that I prefer a Washington insider, which I have clearly stated I do not. The fact is McCain has the experience which happens to be in the Senate. If candidate 'X' had a great deal of experience, the kind which would be helpful to a POTUS, but none of it in Washington, then s/he would still meet the experience criteria.

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

Question for Obama supporters...Other than Obama's rhethoric, what has Obama done to make you want to vote for him (I realize that he doesn't have an 'R' by his name).

beatrice 6 years, 4 months ago

Tom: "Obama will more likely want to strangle McCain vs. a hug when McCain clearly lays it out for Americans and the world how hard Obama tried to legislate for failure in Iraq."Of course, the American people still want to throttle John McCain for being one of the loudest to call for the U.S. to invade Iraq, even before Bush started rattling his saber. The American people will remember that McCain was one of the first and one of the most vocal supporters of George Bush's war in Iraq to find WMDs. He suppoted the war, and he now supports Bush's economic plans. With McCain you get more of the same. Heck, if you want, you can even get a necktie that shows just how close Bush and McCain are: http://www.zazzle.com/mccain_bush_hug_tie-151885680247489956?gl=samappleby

jhwk2008 6 years, 4 months ago

I admit it Satirical, you are right on this point. See how I can admit when I'm wrong, unlike you.However, you go on to say:Satirical says: "Thank you for again illustrating our ignorance on this topic.""Our ignorance?" Thank you for acknowledging that you're wrong too.

scott3460 6 years, 4 months ago

Snap, numbers of stories alone do not constitute bias. When McCain accused Obama of being uppity during his European tour and falsely assailed his patriotism the corporate media, of course, whipped themselves in to a frenzy of dutifully delivering the Republican's message to the voting public. Until someone does a study that at least attempts to assign a favorable/unfavorable analysis to the mere couting of stories and pictures, the myth of liberal bias is unsubstantiated.

scott3460 6 years, 4 months ago

Obama must be having an effect, McCain's started whining about biased news coverage: "McCain camp accuses NBC of partisan coverage"If McCain doesn't want the criticism, he shouldn't cheat.

bad_dog 6 years, 4 months ago

"Bad_dog:I would think that if you went to an effort to look up information about Matthew Lyon outside of this forum after I mentioned him, you would have looked at what else I said about him on this forum."Once again, I have no duty to research what you may or may not have said on any given topic, particularly with a topic as broad as wretches and terrorists. The majority of my initial post was directed toward the failure to address McCain's moral failings. If it's so important readers know you previously stated something, post a link to it."Tell you what. If you think you know who I actually am, give me a call so we can set up a meeting to discuss Matthew Lyon in more detail."There's no need to meet. I learned enough about Matthew Lyon shortly after you corrected the mispelling of his surname.

dirkleisure 6 years, 4 months ago

So Satirical, if Obama had as many years in the Senate as John McCain then he would have the necessary experience?

Satirical 6 years, 4 months ago

So then the doctor told me I would stop having all those nosebleeds if I just kept my finger out of there...Whoops wrong post!

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 6 years, 4 months ago

not Joy Division: "... no one pays any attention to total stupidity."I do.( Can't take my eyes off it. ),8-)

beatrice 6 years, 4 months ago

Satirical, I'm quite sure you are mistaken about which candidate is wearing diapers. I guess it all "Depends" on the situation.Since Jackson Brown is suing McCain to stop him from using his song on the campaign trail, maybe McCain can go with the Beatles:Will you still need me / Will you still feed meWhen I'm 64 (plus 8)

crane13 6 years, 4 months ago

i am moving out of this country if johnny boy gets the seat in the oval office, i suggest the rest of you do the same....

beatrice 6 years, 4 months ago

restore, not sure I'm following your logic. How exactly is a married man having an affair with a younger woman worse than a married man having an affiar with a younger woman who then allows it to destroy his marriage? Is it just because one of the younger women had an entry level job (no pun intended), while the other was wealthy? An affair is bad, but dumping a wife because she is disfigured from an auto accident for a younger model is worse. How is the one affair that ended with the couple staying together worse than the other that ended in divorce and a subsequent marriage to the home-wrecker one month later any better? Please do explain.Cheating dogs are cheating dogs. Nobody is morally superior in this scenario. The difference is, you know that you are getting a cheating dog when you vote for McCain.

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