Archive for Sunday, August 3, 2008

Obama backs away from debate challenge

August 3, 2008

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— Democratic candidate Barack Obama on Saturday backed away from rival John McCain's challenge for a series of joint appearances, agreeing only to the standard three debates in the fall.

In May, when a McCain adviser proposed a series of pre-convention appearances at town hall meetings, Obama said, "I think that's a great idea." In summer stumping on the campaign trail, McCain has often noted that Obama had not followed through and joined him in any events.

Obama's reversal on town hall debates is part of a play-it-safe strategy he's adopted since claiming the nomination and grabbing a lead in national polls. Advisers to the Illinois senator, speaking on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss strategy, say Obama is reluctant to take chances or give McCain a high-profile stage now that Obama's the front-runner.

On Saturday, in a letter to the Commission on Presidential Debates, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said the short period between the last political convention and the first proposed debate made it likely that the commission-sponsored debates would be the only ones.

McCain's campaign disparaged Obama for backing off. McCain has not yet formally agreed to the commission-sponsored debates, but the McCain campaign says he plans to.

"We understand it might be beneath a worldwide celebrity of Barack Obama's magnitude to appear at town hall meetings alongside John McCain and directly answer questions from the American people, but we hope he'll reconsider," spokesman Brian Rogers said.

Comments

Jason Bowers-Chaika 6 years, 11 months ago

Hussein? I think it has a nice ring to it. Ever wonder what the "H" stands for in Jesus "H" Christ? HMMM

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Robert, I know you got your knives, but did you ever get your copy of the Satanic Bible back from the police?

Jason Bowers-Chaika 6 years, 11 months ago

Marion Lynn, If someone is bisexual or half gay and half straight why is that person referred to as a homo?

TopJayhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

DuPlenty, Spiderman, and Scott are just regurgetating what their Proffessors feed them. All three are in school, and are getting lot's of "book larning" But totally lack any kind of expeirience to even understand how completely naive they sound.

TopJayhawk 6 years, 11 months ago

Beatrice. Obama is half white and half black. But you call him a "black guy" are you one of those that think the black part trumps the white part.. Patent racism on you part.

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

My fear is that if we continue on the topic of racism we will be forced to discuss why so many African-Americans are voting for Obama, which will then spin out of control, so let's change topics.I bet Beatrice is really hot. Are you hot Beatrice? (I am taken)

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

Yeah, Obama's numbers are dropping like a lead ballon. http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_pollAs soon as the main stream media does their job and covers more of the actual issues facing this nation his numbers will drop even more.http://www.theonion.com/content/news/time_publishes_definitive_obama

jmadison 6 years, 11 months ago

The less debate the better. Lets concentrate on peripheral issues and coast to victory.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 11 months ago

CBS thinks Obama's campaign is somewhat like the campaign of George Bush in 2000."The bustling Obama headquarters on North Michigan Avenue invites comparisons to a start-up, teeming with young people in jeans clutching BlackBerrys as they walk through the halls. Yet in Democratic circles, another, potentially less welcome, parallel is being made: to the tight-knit and tight-lipped organization eight years ago of George W. Bush."http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/03/politics/washingtonpost/main4317674.shtml

BigPrune 6 years, 11 months ago

"Um, uh, uh, um, uh, uh uh, um" Obama is great with prepared speeches but he is incapable of just winging it. That's why he's chickened out.

Godot 6 years, 11 months ago

Best headline: "Obama is afraid to debate McCain."

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Robert Marble: "hussein osama"?Are you possibly thinking about Osama bin Laden, the person who attacked us 7 years ago and the Bush administration hasn't yet caught because they got tied up in Iraq looking for WMDs that weren't there? Where is Osama? Why aren't Republicans asking this question? Thanks for reminding us of one of the greatest stumbles an American President has ever had -- Bush's failure to capture/kill Osama bin Laden. The reminder of McCain backing Bush's foreign policy plans is all the more reason to support Barack Obama. Obama for President! I'll bring the cheese to the victory party, Robert Marble can bring the crackers.

Godot 6 years, 11 months ago

Obama is attempting to "win by confusion." Engaging in town hall meetings or debates with McCain would torpedo that strategy because Obama would be put on the spot, and on the record, before all of America (not just before special interest groups) about his stance on the issues. This is something neither Obama nor his handlers will allow, at least not this early in the game. They cannot afford to give the opposition time to dig into Obama's multiple stances on multiple issues and contrast/compare them to his positions in a mano a mano with McCain.

jhwk2008 6 years, 11 months ago

Cato, why do you keep calling the need to inflate tires and get tuneups a Dukakis Moment? Wait, that's right, you don't believe in science."Using the website FuelEconomy.gov, Verrastro writes, we can estimate that "the maximum (estimated) fuel economy (i.e., mileage) savings drivers could expect as a result of keeping their engines properly tuned (4%), replacing air filters (up to 10%), properly inflating tires (up to 3%) and using the correct motor oil (1-2%) is 18-19%. Since American drivers use roughly 380 million gallons of gasoline (not including diesel) per day, an 18% improvement translates into a savings of 68 million gallons, or 1.62 million barrels of oil per day."Current crude oil and condensate production in the OCS is about 1.25 million barrels per day."So... What does that mean?It means that if every American was running around with significantly underinflated tires and improperly tuned cars, then, yes, Sen. Obama is right, the savings from inflating the tires and tuning the cars could arguably match or exceed current output from the OCS.Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, R-Calif., and Charlie Crist, R-Florida, according to the Los Angeles Times "appealed to those with the real power to make change -- average citizens -- to drive slower, keep engines tuned and tires properly inflated, to buy hybrids and lower overall consumption."http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/07/from-the-fact-1.htmlNow what?

1029 6 years, 11 months ago

Great post, Cato. I've always admired your intelligence. Obama may have not fallen for this one, but McCain will get him somehow. It's a well-known fact that Republicans are more clever and cunning than Liberals. Once McCain can get in Obama's spotlight and trick him into saying something stupid, then McCain will be able to use that gaffe all the way up until November. We just need that one moment and it's too bad that these debates aren't going to give it to us. To this point, Obama's been lucky to avoid the trademark framing and spins that usually propel Republicans to victory, but he can't avoid it forever. At some point between now and November, Obama will slip up and show how much he loves socialism and hates America.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 11 months ago

Maybe McCain should just debate himself, since has flip-flopped on all of the major issues: oil drilling, Bush tax cuts, the war of choice in Iraq, the role of the religious right in political debate.The 2000 independent maverick McCain could debate the 2008 Bush loyalist McCain.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

Keep wishing Cato, but, while the government's propaganda arms do their best to tear Obama, he maintains a very comfortable lead in the polling of the electoral vote. He has been above 300 electoral votes fairly comfortably most of the time since clinching the nomination and McSame has sunk consistently in the same time frame to the 200 vote range. Even when you take out the close calls and the nearly tied states, Obama today enjoys a very, very comfortable lead of approximately 243 votes to 165 for the media favorite: gwmccain. 270 of course, are needed to win. If the election were held today he would need only 27 of the 131 electoral votes that are polling as tight races (within 5% or less) Currently Florida (27 votes) Colorado (9 votes) Nevada (5votes) Michigan (17 votes) Indiana (Indi-f-ing-ana!! 11 votes) and New Hampshire (4 votes) are leaning his way. Those are facts and I know you will try hard to dispute or, perhaps, just ignore them, but there they are nonetheless, the best insight we have on how the race is shaping up. When you consider that information and also see McCain starting to go desperate and negative so early, those who have seen this dog and pony show a few times can tell which side is successful and which is watching things slip away. Whoever said it before is right. We go through this every election cycle and the party that whines and moans about wanting more debates is always the party behind. So, sleep tight caty, keep dreaming those sweet dreams.

cato_the_elder 6 years, 11 months ago

Again, Scott, you can claim to read, but you still don't grasp. The issue isn't predicting who will win, which is an exercise in foolishness - it's the fact that Obama is without a doubt not doing as well as advertised. Every national media source I have read, heard, or seen says it. I have a suggestion: Why don't you find me one legitimate news report that says he's doing better than expected for the Democrats' presidential nominee at this time?

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

Alternative, non partisan headline:Obama stands firm in face of McCain Debate ChallengeWhen going to kill your opponent you plan to take him out quickly and completely. More debates would only allow McCain to recover and appear of equal caliber to Obama. As we saw with the criminal bush in his series of debates, failure to annihilate your opponent only keeps him in the game long enough to do damage. At the end of the first of three debates Obama should have Senator Hothead either spewing cursewords (which we all know he is prone to do at the drop of a hat) or babbling incoherent rethuglican talking points. The second and third debates should be demonstrating a cowering McCain backing away from any fight & simply trying to live through the nights. Cato, if you really do think that nonsense you wrote will come to pass you will not enjoy these debates. It is McCain who is the mere script reader. And don't you think the Democrats have not learned from Kerry's debate failure. There will be McCain blood in the water early and often. If a reporter can confuse your old guy so badly with a simple question re: Viagra, imagine what a Harvard Law Review graduate is going to be able to do. And all poor McCain can do is try to tear down Obama, scare people about the scary black guy and promise 4 more years of bush's traitorous policies. There is a reason Americans overwhelmingly treat Obama as a celebrity. He's better at many things than most everyday Americans, and a hugely welcome respite from 20 years of criminal Republicans. It will be enjoyable watching him prove it.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Marion, no, I'm not being racist, I was making a pun stemming from Marple's asinine "osama hussein" comment. Attacking someone based on their name alone is as stupid as attacking them for their skin color. I'm sure you could find plenty of skinhead sites that also call Obama such "creative" names. "Cracker" would be a fitting term to describe many of these individuals, which is not based on their race alone (racism), but on their behavior.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Why should Obama let McCain ride on his popular coattails by appearing together frequently? Candidates who are behind in the polls regularly challenge opponents to extra debates, and rarely are they taken up on the challenge. From his position of being ahead in the polls, Obama has little to nothing to gain by accepting the challenge. McCain, on the other hand, was wise to make the challenge, as he has nothing to lose and it makes Obama appear to be on the defensive. It is a good move on McCain's part. Obama, however, is neither weak nor afraid, but simply has nothing to gain by going beyond the already planned debates. If he truly can't speak on his own away from a script, this will be proven out in the planned debates. Just remember, Obama did quite well for himself during the Democratic debates.Refusing a debate doesn't mean someone is weak. Example, when Bush refused Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's challenge for a debate a couple years back, did that mean Bush was weak? No. It just meant he had nothing to gain by having such a debate. Obama is well in the lead and has nothing to gain, it is just that simple. Since it is politics we are talking about, I honestly believe that were the shoe on the other foot and John McCain was the one leading in the polls, I doubt he would accept Obama's requests for extra debates. Winning in politics is about strategy. It is a chess match, and we have a long way to go. McCain scored with his challenge, but it is far from a check-mate move. It is more like he was able to pick off a pawn. Obama for President!

Godot 6 years, 11 months ago

Quite some time ago, I said on this forum that Obama is Bush all over again. I think the Moveoners envied the Bush political machine (thus their extreme hatred of it); they have studied it, copied it, and have "improved" upon it to the point that they expect to have complete and total control over all media and public perception of Obama. Poor Obama; I hope he realizes what he is in for.

1Patriot 6 years, 11 months ago

Why don't we just all go to communal living? We could live off the land, grow our own food, go back to the horse and buggy, start heating our homes with wood burning stoves that we can also use to cook our home grown veggies and farm raised bacon and eggs? Now that would really cut back on our fuel usage. We could save billions of gallons!Sounds pretty stupid doesn't it?Almost as stupid as saving billions of gallons by inflating your tires and tuning up your car!Dah!

jaywalker 6 years, 11 months ago

"Obama stands firm in face of McCain Debate Challenge"That's a non-partisan headline, Scott? You don't know jack about journalism, do ya? Not to mention it being completely false, since " In May, when a McCain adviser proposed a series of pre-convention appearances at town hall meetings, Obama said, "I think that's a great idea." So to you, 'Obama stands firm' is a different way to say 'Obama reverses himself, again'?In all fairness, I agree with beatrice' take on the matter.And to whoever said that McCain's the one who's dead without the prompter needs to watch a little more. His town hall meetings are almost wholly unscripted, he is almost completely away from any prompter and takes questions direct from the audience. I'm not saying he's a better orator than Obama, in fact I think he has a distinct disadvantage there, but he hates having to read prepared answers and prefers to speak plainly to the people. I kind of admire that, even if it has gotten him in some trouble.

jhwk2008 6 years, 11 months ago

RobertMarble's racism has already surfaced.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

...and yes, hussein is slipping. Frustrated, bea?

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

"Now what?"Cato ignores every point you have made and argues ad nauseum over the meaning of his use of the word "assuage."

cato_the_elder 6 years, 11 months ago

The most telling point in this is that Senator Hillary Clinton never, I mean never, would have been fearful to square off as Senator McCain has proposed - she would have welcomed it, and probably would have suggested it before he did. Senator Obama and his handlers know how unprepared he is due to his lack of experience, but what really scares them is that under this format he will say something foolish or, what's worse, his true beliefs will emerge. Most of his major gaffes have occurred when he has been speaking without a script, including his latest "Dukakis Moment" when he said a few days ago, before his flip-flop on offshore drilling, that Americans could assuage the perceived need for expanded oil drilling by keeping their automobile tires inflated and making sure to get regular tune-ups for their cars. It's become quite evident by now that Senator Obama is a wind-up performer who can read scripted speeches quite well, but when it comes to analyzing the issues on his feet can be expected either to fumble the answer or to say something that reveals his extreme leftist views. While no one has a crystal ball, the possibility certainly exists that after the November election Republicans will enshrine the Dems' current presidential primary system in their Hall of Fame for Democrat Blunders Graciously Accepted by Republicans.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Oh, and I am loving 1029's posts. Keep up the good work.

Strontius 6 years, 11 months ago

"it's the fact that Obama is without a doubt not doing as well as advertised. Every national media source I have read, heard, or seen says it."If that's true, then McCain is doing even worse though. Frankly I don't think we have a pair of great candidates this time around, but what's new? I've heard Obama speak in person in El Dorado. I wasn't too moved by his speech, though he did put forward some good ideas. But even with his faults, he's light years ahead of McCain. The media has given John McCain some pretty hefty passes lately, particularly with all the gaffs he's made on the campaign trail. And to my surprise, they haven't even touched the fact that he graduated near the bottom of his class at the Naval Academy, or that he divorced his first wife because he didn't like the way she looked after a car accident, preferring to marry someone almost 20 years his junior who was an heiress. Republicans have shouted values and integrity for the past two decades at least, and from what I can tell, McCain totally lacks these things, particularly when you combine them with his quasi senile nature and his inability or unwillingness to talk about issues in his campaign advertisements? All I see is Obama bashing, and not very good Obama bashing at that.

cato_the_elder 6 years, 11 months ago

The vituperative responses from the Usual Suspects are entertaining, and quite understandable. Every day more bad things happen to their candidate's political campaign, they try desperately to spin it, and they can't. The simple fact, known to all Democrat insiders, is that Obama should be leading in the polls by at least 20 points, but isn't - and is even behind in some of them. While I don't put great stock in polls, the Democrat insiders do - and they don't like what they're seeing. And, what they dislike most of all is that Obama's sub-par polling results have not been caused primarily by John McCain's efforts - it's the many gaffes and bad decisions made by Obama and his handlers that are hurting his campaign, and hurting it badly. Privately, Bill and Hillary Clinton are seething at the absurdity of their Party's primary system that has enabled Senator Obama to sally forth, quickly become a faltering candidate, and then in all probability reject Senator Clinton for VP - when as a presidential candidate Hillary Clinton could have had the opportunity to take that 20-point lead, or more, by now - and without having embarrassed herself and her country by cuddling up with socialists in Europe while her opponent was successfully campaigning in battleground states in America, where the voters are.

cato_the_elder 6 years, 11 months ago

Strontius, Obama does just fine at bashing himself. By way of just one example, given his expressed views on greatly increasing personal taxation and the fact that every young person in America will already be saddled with having to pay for retired baby boomers in a few years, any young person who has any interest in holding on to what he or she earns would be crazy to vote for Obama.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

Cato:Obama has but one expectation - cleansing the nation from the abuses of the bush administration. In that he is doing fine, as per the evidence I have cited. Winning is, in fact, the only objective here, and your ridiculous assertion that instead it is somehow about whether the candidates beat expectations is as foolish and stupid as most of the rest of your opinions uttered here.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Robert, still having those bedwetting fantasies? Hussein slipping? Saddam Hussein? King Hussein of Jordan? I guess you can say they are slipping, seeing as neither is still alive. Barack Obama, however, will be your next President. That just makes me laugh at knowing how wigged out it will make you. Of course, you know that John McCain has far more class and criticizes the racists who insist on crying "Hussein" when talking about Obama. With your added "osama hussein," I suspect the good Senator from Arizona would find you to be a repugnant human being, too. "I have repeatedly stated my respect for Senator Obama and Senator Clinton, that I will treat them with respect. I will call them 'Senator.' We will have a respectful debate, as I have said on hundreds of occasions. I regret any comments that may have been made about these two individuals who are honorable Americans." ... He also said that it was not appropriate to invoke Mr. Obama's middle name in the course of the campaign."I absolutely repudiate such comments," he said. "It will never happen again."http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/26/mccain-repudiates-hussein-obama-remarks/Just think, the person you will be voting for "absolutely repudiates" the things you say. Now that is funny. And no, I'm not frustrated. Barack Obama will be our next President ... and both you and I already know that.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 11 months ago

"Once McCain can get in Obama's spotlight and trick him into saying something stupid..."Or simply get Obama away from the teleprompter and let the good times roll.

JHOK32 6 years, 11 months ago

At least Obama will return $1000 to each middle class family for money the big oil companies have stolen from us (Exxon-Mobil just reported a whopping $11 Billion dollar profit - the highest profit in U.S. history!).

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

hussein osama's fears and ineptitudes are percolating to the surface.....

humblecommentator 6 years, 11 months ago

Strontius is correct. We do not have a good pair of candidates this time around. And this is not new,Both these guys are weak. I hate to have to vote for a third party again.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

hahahaha, bea is soooooooooo quick to try playing the race card.....what a well trained lib!

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

oh, and hahaha, robert and marion are so quick to play the racists. No cards involved. Just run of the mill racists.

james bush 6 years, 11 months ago

Nah! Nah! Nah!.......... Not God Bless America!............BUT gawxd damn a meally mouthed, pontificating, globe-trotting, messianic, Chicago-groomed, arrogant, Harvard-educated politicians like..............!?!...........hmmmnnn

BigDog 6 years, 11 months ago

Bea,I will agree with you about not needing to throw in the whole Barack Hussein Obama name thing into the discuss if being used to create an atmosphere of fear. I believe many have frustration with the medias love-fest with Obama. They seem to not want to talk about his views not his pretend image. For example, they keep saying about growing up with midwest or Kansas values ..... when he never lived in Kansas or the midwest prior to Illinois at age 27 .... he grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia. Most of it with his mother's parents in Hawaii.I have friends who support Obama, and after long discussion and asking them why they support him ... it came down to his race. Is it not also racist for those who support Obama because of his race only and not his policies?Personally I could care less what race either one of them are ..... When I take out a piece of paper and compare the candidates ....I know Barack Obama's views and policy positions don't match up well with mine at all ... I like his position view for a better America .... I will agree with him there ..... just not his view for a better America.There are areas where I don't agree with John McCain but of the two .... his views are a hell of a lot closer to mine than Obama's.President John McCain in 2008!

ReadingSports 6 years, 11 months ago

It seems to me that any lead that Barack H.Obama had is melting away::::::::::Obama's comment, "I'm melting, melting, all my lovely liberalness, aarrgghh..."

Haiku_Cuckoo 6 years, 11 months ago

"ben cohen founder of ben & jerrys ice cream explains our 'socialist' budget."Ben Cohen is a corporate shill. Ben & Jerry's is owned by the Unilever Corporation. Unlike the image it projects, it is not some homespun ice creamery in Vermont.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

You mouth breathers keep getting excited about the slippage in national polls going on after two solid weeks of McCain's nagative ads and the corporate media beating up on Obama. Perhaps it takes your attention away from the fact that your guy now admits openly what we all knew all along: he wants to raise your taxes. Your heads would probably explode if you had to seriously contemplate that the guy you've forced yourself to love so much is just a moderate/social liberal in kook clothing. But don't worry. Obama will make sure you see the real picture on McCain soon enough. No whining once the damage starts, though, okay?

bondmen 6 years, 11 months ago

McCain is no great debater folks so what is Barry afraid of? It's not a speech he can read from a teleprompter! That's what he's good at - reading speeches. This will hurt the Obama campaign as it goes to Barry's strength, backbone and toughness, or lack thereof . He must stand up to McCain or McCain wins, hands down.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Big Dog, thanks for the comments. I can appreciate the fact that most people -- a vast majority, in fact -- who prefer McCain over Obama do so, as you say, because "views and policy positions don't match up well with mine at all." I am certainly not saying that supporting McCain over Obama makes anyone a racist in and of itself. That is not my intent.The level of fear mongering found in some posts, however, is racially motivated. We all know it. Sometimes, you just have to call people on it. As I've noted, John McCain has enough class to have done so. Regarding whether or not Blacks voting for Obama simply because he is Black is racist is another issue. First off, it is racist. No denying it and no getting around it. Voting for Hillary because of gender was also sexist (as was voting against because of gender alone). However, it isn't the type of racism one might be able to equate to a Nazi skinhead group, or the KKK, or even the Black Panthers. Instead it is a vote for change that says "Yes, all people are included," and it is not just a vote against the White candidate. Is the motivation to vote for someone, or to vote against someone, because of their race is part of the issue. There is the type of underlying racism that occurs where people gravitate toward socializing with those who look like each other and have shared experiences from which to draw, and then there is the racism that is more about staying away from "them." There is a difference. This can happen among any race or ethnicity or religious group. In short, racism isn't just a one size fits all term. I hope some of that makes sense. And don't worry, Big Dog, Obama still has time to make you come around. ; )

cato_the_elder 6 years, 11 months ago

Scott0000, what do you smoke before you create your posts? You invariably respond with the most bizarre comments of anyone on this site. Did I ever say that winning wasn't important? Do you really think that I don't wake up every morning committed to fighting with every ounce of strength I have to prevent your Messiah from achieving his neo-marxist goal of taxing productive Americans to oblivion in order to give what we have earned to individuals and organizations that haven't earned it themselves? Are you truly unable to grasp the very basic idea that your candidate's numbers just aren't what they should be, and the resultant implications of that? If you want to make hard predictions on August 3 re an election in early November, you have the right to do so, but there's not a respected political scientist anywhere in the country who would engage in such foolishness.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

bea? oh, bea? we're waiting for you evidence of racism- you might want to locate a dictionary to familiarize yourself with the actual definition of the term though.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Robert, the evidence is in your use of "osama hussein," an asinine attempt at fear mongering by pointing out that Obama is the "other," the non-White candidate with the funny name. The added "osama" is simply pathetic. There is your evidence. Simple test: Would you be perfectly comfortable saying such things if you found yourself in front of an NAACP crowd? Instead of discussing or even caring about the issues, you drag it into "osama hussein" territory. Pathetic and racist. Your candidate, Senator McCain, repudiates the things you say, since he recognizes the inherent racism of such remarks. I asked you before -- how does it feel to know that the person you will be voting for recognizes the repugnant nature of your racially charged comments and repudiates your types of statements? That must be pretty embarrassing.

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

Further proof Obama is all about style and would rather run a popularity contest, than debating the issues that are affecting our country.Did anyone hear Obama's Energy Plan?Inflate your tires and get a tune-up. Lead us to the promise land Obama! Looks like your local mechanic has the same creditials as Obama.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

bea, this is about the millionth time I've posted a comment only to have you immediately make allegations of racism. Here is your challenge: substantiate that allegation. Please provide evidence of this racism. One stipulation though- and this will be tough for you to comprehend: simpley disagreeing with you doesn't actually make one a racist. Yes, I know it may qualify in the world of al sharpton or ray nagin who like to play that card almost as much as you bea. But try to substantiate your words anyway. This should be interesting. Just use copy & paste to point out these supposed racist comments that only you seem to be seeing.

BigDog 6 years, 11 months ago

Can you say pocket protector?http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.htmlWith a look like that ..... why would he not want to debate?

BigDog 6 years, 11 months ago

spiderman,obama endorsements by caroline kennedy and egoreheck if you look back at democrat debates all the candidates believed obama was the least prepared and least qualified.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYYjPYBEDtkMcCain 2008!

ReadingSports 6 years, 11 months ago

80% of the last ten posts were by da amazing spiderman. You should change your screen name to spider-spam.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

Reading:There will be debates after the Olympics and conventions when significantly more Americans are paying attention. McCain will have three chances. We'll see what he does with them.Cato:You asked: "Are you truly unable to grasp the very basic idea that your candidate's numbers just aren't what they should be, and the resultant implications of that?"Please provide a source to substantiate what Obama's numbers should be. Thank you. Perhaps then I can grasp the resultant implications of the status of the race. For now I've decided to rely on what reputable polling summarys show to be the expected electoral result. They are again this morning, as they have been each and every time I have gone through this exercise with you kooks, showing an Obama landslide. This in spite of a solid two weeks of your candidates baseless negative attacks and the assistance of the corporate media in tearing Obama down, while giving McCain a pass on such things as reversing his stance on raising payroll taxes (something you'd guess would be screaming from the headlines of every paper in America if it was done by a Democrat. Apparently the fact that McCain is not as true a no-tax kook as promised and is already planning to raise your taxes is not noteworthy to the corporate media!!) Nevertheless, the polling today predicts:Obama 316McCain 198Senate:D - 57R - 43House:D - 240R - 195If you have better information please provide it.

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

screedposter...You have to remember Obama is a typical politician, so "emergency" means whatever he wants it to mean, even if the new definition really contradicts a reason he stated he wouldn't use the Strategic Oil Reserves ("...to provide a small, short-term decrease in gas prices")

staff04 6 years, 11 months ago

This is nothing new. The person who is losing always "challenges" the leader to something.The headline wouldn't be any different if McCain challenged Obama in a race to Mars...McCain would still accuse Obama of "chickening out."

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

Just in case anyone missed it..."Democrat Barack Obama called today for tapping the nation's strategic oil reserves to help drive down gasoline prices, a shift from his previous position on the issue."http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-campaign5-2008aug05,0,4069072.story

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

And Robert, you've added feminine hygiene fantasies to your bedwetting fantasies? You need help. See a shrink, because your reverting to your Oedipal complex again.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

barrypenders, I'm suprised you're not just wondering what it is like to have a dad at all.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

oh by the way, bea...i'm posting under my real name, how is that "hiding"?? isn't it you that's hiding? or is that racism again?...hmm...I've debunked every point you've tried to make, and shot down every accusation. Yet you still persist, steadily stooping lower each time...can you say "obsessed"?

bondmen 6 years, 11 months ago

That stripe I'm beginning to see down Barry's back is looking a bit more yellow today.Barry takes at most 5 (yes that's five) states this November!And it's nobody's fault but his own. Too inexperienced - too extreme!

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

you're obviously doing the bedwetting bea... you over react with silly tantrums and over dramatizations ...I hope you get bulk pricing on your bed linen. Insulting name variations are pretty common in politics and political discussions- you know this well. So for you to throw such a hissy fit when it's directed at your candidate is rather stupid, unless you plan to launch into a similar tirade everytime something similar occurs regarding another person. But your fake indignation only seems to occur where hussein is concerned...you make it worse by trying to stretch it into a racial issue. That gets very tiring considering how common it is amongst you fringe loonies on the far left.

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 6 years, 11 months ago

What's going on here?Oh, I get it... politics is the new sports... with commentators aplenty.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Sati, won't it be embarrassing when McCain loses to a lead balloon? And let us somehow imagine the miraculous happens, and McCain were to win: the Republicans will have put somebody into the White House that most conservatives despise. Your personal hero, Rush Limbaugh, says; "McCain will kill conservatism as a dominant force in the Republican Party," while your favorite dream date Ann Coulter says, "John McCain is not only bad for Republicanism, which he definitely is -- he is bad for the country."Oh, the horror of having to support someone your heros hate. Too funny. But don't worry. Obama will win.

ReadingSports 6 years, 11 months ago

I usually avoid commenting on politics, mainly because the political threads on this site contain even more name calling than the ones about fast food restaurants.Wouldn't it make sense for the candidates to debate each other and inform the voters about their respective stands on the issues? Isn't that what our democracy is founded on? Free and open debate? Or we can just have more name calling until the public gets nauseated by the rank stupidity.

Oracle_of_Rhode 6 years, 11 months ago

Hillary wanted to debate Obama every four hours as well. Sorry, McSame, but Obama's got the lead and there's no reason to change the dynamic there. The McSame campaign would surely love to put Obama in a bear hug and control the message (Brittany! Paris!) as well as where Barack can travel. But it ain't going to happen. This is all about strategy. Anybody who thinks that whip-smart, articulate Obama is "afraid" to debate the ol' gaffe machine McSame is kidding themselves.

Oracle_of_Rhode 6 years, 11 months ago

Those who cite national tracking polls should keep in mind that in the U.S. we use an electoral college system whereby winners of each state earn all of that state's electors. Thus, tracking polls of the entire nation mean very little. If you look at state-by-state polling (the ones grownups pay attention to), you'll see that our next president will be Barack Obama. Have a nice day!

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

bea, you certainly become more shrill with every passing month. I see you still haven't located your dictionary. Go look up "racism", and tell us how it applies to the 8020893-96350856095 times you've used that term against people who's views diverge from your own.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

It'll take her awhile to gather all that- she seems to use the term anytime she's flustered or confronted by someone who disagrees with her. That persistant feminine hygiene problem she's suffering from must've gotten worse.

ReadingSports 6 years, 11 months ago

Ben and Jerry and Noam Chompsky are merely socialist and "useless idiots".All better now.

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

Agnostick:."I like "big ideas," but I think the little ideas have merit, as well."This isn't an idea about the role of government in solving the energy crisis, it is common knowledge. Is Obama's new health care plan for people to wash their hands more often, and look both ways before crossing the street? This man is a genius! If Obama weren't around to tell me how to use toilet paper I wouldn't know what to do.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

marion, I already did point it out. See my 10:06 am post. It is in the hundreds, maybe even thousands of times you and your bestest friend Robert Marble have paraded the "hussein" name out there like it is something to ridicule and fear. With RM's added "osama hussein," he just crosses a line even known bigots would recognize. Not him, though. In short, it has to do with the fear mongering against the "other," the non-white guy with the non-white sounding name. But I'm not surprised you don't recognize racism when used by others or by yourself. It is kind of like someone thinking their own farts don't smell bad. Well, guess what, they do. I still find it terribly funny to think that your own candidate has called people out for doing this very thing. By the way, I'm thinking about opening a pawn shop. Got any pointers?

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Oh no, I've been discredited by the loser brigade who fantasize about bedwetting and smelly vagies as they cling to their guns for comfort. Keep up the fear mongering racial tactics, boys, against the guy with the scary scary name who is going to be your next President. A multi-bankrupt creep and spammer and a "former" meth using reader of the "Satanic Bible" and potential pyscho killer with an obvious oedipal complex calling me "discredited." Thanks for the laughs, boys, and the reminder that there really are freaks out there.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

bea's race baiting comments shouldn't be surprising in light of barak hussein's recent commments; he certainly leads the way when it comes to playing the race card. With bea it's an obvious case of "monkey see, monkey do".

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Hussein is one of the most popular names in the world, particularly in Muslim nations.The insistance of the right wing conservatives inserting it every chance they get is a wedge to remind everyone that Obama is the black guy. Here are parts from an interesting post I found from Dec. 2006. Oh how it reads true today. "The Conservative media has fairly exploded with use of Obama's full name in an attempt to force an association with deposed dictator Saddam Hussein (not a devout Muslim, a secular Stalinist), and hopefully by extension, radical Islam. ...The obsession over Obama's middle name would be absurd if the one drop mentality did not still apply after all these years. Hussein is one of the most common names in the Muslim world, a whitepages. com search of Husseins in New York yields over 167 listings. ...The point is to remind everyone that Barack Hussein Obama is not white, and therefore cannot be trusted. He is not "American" in the way that we think of ourselves as being American. In the end, the language of intolerance in America is all about reminding us who is American, who is deserving of citizenship and all the rights contained therein, and who isn't. Come 2008, Conservatives are banking that black, Muslim, and if necessary woman, are not in our conception of what an American is."It is intolerance of another race, and, right from the dictionary, mind you, "discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race." I think equating a person with Osama bin Laden qualifies as "abusive behavior." In other words, Robert and Marion, you are both racial motivated in your attacks on Obama.

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

Scott..."Big oil execs from the Hess Corp. poured $285,000 to Mccain's campaign immediately upon his reversing his off-shore drilling position. He sure does not seem to have anything in the way of core values. He will (& ususally has) changed any position in order to score some money or political points with the group he's chasing after at the moment."Obama is the one that rejected public financing and you are accusing McCain of being in the pocket of special interests? Obama is also receiving money from employees of oil companies. Notice they gave McCain money AFTER he changed his position, meaning it didn't influence his decision. Obama flip-flopped (yet again), this time related to off-shore drilling, likely because he realized money could be made. Obama flip-flopped because it was in his interest to do so when he figure out there was money to be made. Obama has core values; change your position as often as possible to earn the most money.

Oracle_of_Rhode 6 years, 11 months ago

McSame couldn't even hold a tie with Barack for two days in the meaningless national polls. You conservatard unemployed outpatient haters got all excited for nothing. McSame has fallen, and he can't get up! Bwaaaahaaaaa!http://www.gallup.com/poll/109264/Gallup-Daily-Obama-46-McCain-43.aspx

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

invictus...Racism is anytime you question the experience, judgment, or leadership of an African-American candidate.

Godot 6 years, 11 months ago

It becomes more and more apparent that Barack and his controllers do not want the electorate to know much about Barack's past. It is a good thing there exist a few rigorous researchers and reporters who take the time to dig and connect the dots so they can document the history rather than just repeat "his story." This is a long read. Concentrate. Stick it out. It is worth it.http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/386abhgm.asp

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

awww that's sweet- it looks like bea has spent a few sleepless nights scouring the jw page for my old postings....to answer your question bea, no the boys at leavenworth have only given up the knives but still cling to the "satanic bible" paperback. Too bad, I hear there is a great ebay market for relics from crime investigations. Especially ones that were screwed up as badly as that one. Clever attempt at straying from topic though bea! Does that make you a racist too? Maybe you'd better email hussein to get his opinion..

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

Beatrice:"Also, how is using Hussien any more racist than using his first name, Barack, or his last name, Obama? "

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

Beatrice...Also, how is using Hussien any more racist than using his first name, Barack, or his last name, Obama? None of his names are typical for American culture. I don't think adding his middle name necesarily makes a person anymore racist than using his first name or surname.Since you could claim using any of his names is racist, perhaps you would require everyone refer to him as "his majesty" or "our savior?"

janeyb 6 years, 11 months ago

Today's polls are showing dead even with McCain a slight edge. Apparently for Obama, 200,000 cheering German fans doesn't play well in America--there goes the Jewish and veteran vote. Obama really screwed up when he didn't visit the wounded soldiers. He is also saying now that Michigan and Florida should get full votes at the convention--what an arrogant a$$. Obama appears to have stalled at 46%--he was 44% today. Maybe 46% is as good as it gets for him? If his speech is good at the convention, and it isn't a borrowed speech, he will go up a bit--until the GOP convention. People can yell Obama all they want, but it isn't a caucus this time. It's a real vote. Elderly people, veterans, bitter working class America and others who couldn't make the caucuses will be voting this time around. Obama's handlers are explaining it away by saying his supporters are the cell phone generation and they aren't being polled, but his campaign is concerned.

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

Beatrice, Robert, Marion, et al....While some of your guys' posts were humorous it has gotten out of hand. Let's all act like adults and get past the personal attacks, or labeling arguments and motivations. How about we stick to debating the issues.

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

Beatrice..."Satirical, since when is someone's middle name part of the major issues?"I never said it was, but liberals are not unfamiliar with making fun a someone's middle name. How many times have the liberals referring to George W. Bush, as "Dubya"? You reap what you sow.Neither can you infer racism from the mere fact someone is using a person's actual name. Intentions should not be assumed, and even if they were known are a distraction from actual arguments about real issues.I suggest that you ignore people using his middle name and focus on things that really matter. Or another way to look at it; don't stoop to their level.

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

I thought of an even better way to refer to the presumptive Democratic nominee; "he who shall not be named" (see Harry Potter)

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Satirical, since when is someone's middle name part of the major issues? Since when is likening someone's name to the still-at-large Osama bin Laden part of the issues? It is, when such comments are a clear indication that racism is at play -- of fear mongering to show that "that" guy doesn't have an "American" sounding name. Did you ever see anyone make a big deal out of George Walker Bush having the same middle name as the American taliban, John Walker Lindh? When you add to that the questionable pasts of the people in question on this forum, it makes it very clear who we are dealing with. And as long as people continue to act like racists, racism will be one of the issues. Robert, a simple google search hardly accounts for scouring.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

invictus, the racism comes into play with the repeated and excessive use of Obama's middle name when used as a scare tactic that highlights the fact that he is the "other," the one with the non-White sounding name. It is fear mongering on the level of the Willie Horton campaign ads, or the darkening of the skin color of O.J. Simpson on the cover of Time. When you go as far as Robert Marble does with his "osama hussein," that crosses a line and he needs to be called on it. Sorry, Satirical, if this doesn't fit with your idea of staying on topic, but when racism raises its ugly head, it needs to get smacked. If you ignore it, it will only get worse.Again, I am not saying that anyone who supports McCain or simply doesn't like Obama whether they support McCain or not is a racist. Not at all. I am saying that racism exists, and it does appear on these posts from time to time. It may not be as blatant as burning a cross on the lawn, but it is still racism. Disagree with me if you wish, but then ask yourself exactly why the use of "Hussein" has come into such common usage among a certain segment of the conservative movement. I think you will be able to figure out why.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

Topjayhawk, you have no idea whether I am a student or a 75 years old veteran or a middle aged scientist. Do you think your foolish comments have anyone's respect? Fool. Big oil execs from the Hess Corp. poured $285,000 to Mccain's campaign immediately upon his reversing his off-shore drilling position. He sure does not seem to have anything in the way of core values. He will (& ususally has) changed any position in order to score some money or political points with the group he's chasing after at the moment. Remember this man is an admitted adulterer. He cannot be trusted to keep ANY committment. Anyone who looks clearly at his record will see this.

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

beatrice..."What is with the personal questions? What does this have to do with the "issues"?"Just trying to have a conversation, sorry. I figured if we are going to talk about stuff not related to political issues it might as well be informative.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

in other words bea...nice try, but you're busted :)

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

bea also says..."And what is an ultra conservative like yourself doing living in a "liberal" town like Lawrence?"That's fkkn ridiculous bea. You're actually insinuating that people should be geographically segregated based on their political beliefs? Hmm.....after you've found your dictionary & finally found the definition of racism, pershaps you should also open a history book...that same idea has appeared at various times, rarely with a positive result. You're becoming quite the fascist in your old age, bea. I happen to live in Portland Oregon; if you think Lawrence is liberal you haven't seen anything yet. Obviously you become enraged at the idea of someone whose opinions differ from your own - you've proven that repeatedly. But consider this: normal people are (for the most part) able to coexist despite their philosophical differences. It would help if you tried to refrain from launching into rabid personal attacks immediately upon hearing a comment you disagree with.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

so bea is google stalking me now.....sweet.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

pass a law on thoughts? Hardly. And if you don't agree with my thoughts, and apparently several don't, fine. I've said my piece, you have said yours. If you think there is nothing racist what-so-ever in describing Senator Obama as "osama hussein," and that this has nothing to do with fear mongering to scare the white folk, I doubt anything I can write on this blog would change your mind.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

Obama leads McCain nationally in AP-Ipsos poll By ALAN FRAM, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON - Solid margins among women, minorities and young voters have powered Barack Obama to a 6 percentage point lead over John McCain in the presidential race, according to a poll released Tuesday. I still don't think much about these national polls, but for those of you crowing about McCain's surge in the poll.......not so fast, your candidate is still incredibly weak.

jaywalker 6 years, 11 months ago

"20,000 yuppies on Harleys wasting untold gallons of gas on the equivalent of a conservative Burning Man weekend"You've obviously never been to Sturgis.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

Does anyone else see the hypocrisy of McCain standing up at Sturgis, SD to assail Obama on energy issues? 20,000 yuppies on Harleys wasting untold gallons of gas on the equivalent of a conservative Burning Man weekend.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

RM, the statement about moving to a more conservative location stemmed from Satirical's own comment: "why did you leave the Midwest liberal utopia otherwise known as Lawrence." It was a response in kind. Temper? I'm laughing at you. Big difference.As far as the google thing goes, your name seemed like an odd logon when you are listed as "anonymous." I was curious to see if it was the name of some fictional character -- maybe some racist serial killer from a B movie or something, and that somehow I was missing the satire in your comments. I had no idea the story of your past would pop up on the first hit. Funny that it did -- nice "conservative" values there, bub. Have fun with the knives and guns and such. You seem so very well adjusted. Me. I'll stay hidden behind my cloak of anonymity, because I certainly don't want the likes of you and your BFF Marion knowing who the hell I am. Now, if only I could think of the title of that Talking Heads song that comes to mind ...

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

...but....the temper issue is obvious bea, don't try to pass it off as laughter. You've attacked numerous people for simply disagreeing with your beliefs- you've demonstrated it quite frequently. Your rabid zealotry isn't normal.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Good post, logic. America has a bad history when it comes to race issues and I still think much of the use of the name is racially motivated, but I've already made that argument. Nice quiz on the middle names of others to prove the point that the "Hussein" business is more than just politics as usual.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

because I want to, and because I wanted to. What is with the personal questions? What does this have to do with the "issues"? And what is an ultra conservative like yourself doing living in a "liberal" town like Lawrence? Shouldn't you be in Texas somewhere? I'm sure many of your fellow posters would fit right in down in Vidor.malcolm, I didn't realize Bush's middle name was W. I just thought he went by that because he knew his followers had a good shot at spelling it correctly.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

I now live in Phoenix. We just had a cool front come through, and it is still going to be 102 today. So of course I'm hot. Everybody here is.That is what you meant, right?

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

on second thought it is rather disturbing that a woman with bea's temper not only spends her idle time thinking about me but actually searching the internet for me......Things like that make me really glad for the 2nd Amendment, and the Supreme Court's recent affirmation of it's meaning....

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

Beatrice....Are you going to answer my last question?

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

"I don't support agricultural subsidies no matter where they are," McCain said at a recent appearance in Wisconsin. "The farm bill, $300 billion, is something America simply can't afford."Something that should be of interest to many Kansans. I guess it is OK to waste billions rebuilding Iraq, but our farmers are on their own. Meanwhile, here's another, not entirely unrelated story, from this early morning:"Soaring oil prices will leave the Iraqi government with a cumulative budget surplus of as much as $79 billion by year's end, according to an American federal oversight agency. But Iraq has spent only a minute fraction of that on reconstruction costs, which are now largely borne by the United States."Isn't it grand. In addition to funneling more and more of our money to an increasingly unwelcoming regime in Iraq in the form of higher gas prices, President Chucklenuts continues to spend our money like a drunken sailor rebuilding the silly country. And McCain thinks the continuation of this policy is acceptable. My view is the Iraq goverment ought to send every penny of that $79 billion budget surplus ($79 f-ing BILLION!!) to the US taxpayer. This could be a nice and entirely justifiable start on the research and investment needed to free ourselves from the clutches of mideast oil.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

bea says...."What is with the personal questions? What does this have to do with the "issues"?"Wow, scroll up bea...you've asked personal question yourself- and equally unrelated to the issues. Selective memory, eh...

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

beatrice..."That is what you meant, right?"Sure...Just out of curiosity, why do you still patron a Lawrence website now that you live in Phoenix? And why did you leave the Midwest liberal utopia otherwise known as Lawrence (I dont' like how other people pronounce it Lorence, it is Law-rence).

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

nice attempt at passive-aggressive derailment of topic, bea...especially in light of your statement: ":."What is with the personal questions? What does this have to do with the "issues"?""...Your un-subtle and repetitious references to personal information run a bit contrary to your professed indignation at use of such info, bea....now, since you mentioned it- repeatedly-- I'll go ahead & clear the air...What bea continues alluding to is a missing person case from 20 years ago that I was falsely implicated in due to phenomonal incompetence on the part of the leavenworth county sheriff's dept...so please explain bea, what this has to do with the issues- since you've made at least two references to the case & have even gone as far as detailing where to look for it? That was rather ham handed bea- you should leave those tactics up to hussein (or is that where you learned the tactics?)...anyway, since bea has brought this up, there are several stories regarding this case on the JW page- one of them is titled "ku play explores teen's disappearance"....another one, more recent, is titled "Purgatory" which is on Lawrence.com I believe....I take it bea must have a personal axe to grind or has simply been too butt-hurt by all this, causing her to sink to the depths of scouring the internet for personal info to use- and all for this "debate". Pretty lame, bea. I've gotta point out though- if any challenger to hussein were to pull such a similar tactic against him, I'm sure bea would be among the first to cry foul- most likely invoking "racism" once again.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

oh wait..there is some irony here. My middle initial is not "H", bea. So- by your own philosophy / actions, the fact that you've made such a statement means that you MUST be a racist.......so bust yourself Ms. thought police.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

"Do polls matter or do the issues matter? Oh wait that is right, Obama supporters can never talk about why Obama should be the next President or defend his position on issues so they have to find other stuff to talk about."Obama will be President because he will take the country off the path and agenda set by the right wing kooks, corporate and military/industrial complex and govern on behalf of the majority of Americans, as opposed to the favored few. In otehr words, he will be the anti-W & the country is in dire need of the same.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Sati, check these posts again. People were discussing the issue of the debates -- basically why Obama should or shouldn't be President -- and then Robert H. Marble jumped in with his "osama hussein" line, backed by Marion H. Lynn's support of his new bestest buddy forever. The hijacking of the thread happened by the Haters (hence the "H").

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Another zinger from the intelligent mind of MHL, and a clear indication of a mind that sees things in black and white.The ability for the action of another to give me happiness -- such as your disappearance -- does not mean my happiness is tied solely to the actions of others. Going to a movie might make me happy, but would this mean I only achieve happiness by going to movies? Come on, Marion, you can do better than that, can't you?

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

logicsound04..."Have you ever referred to any of these presidents in the following manner:"You are making the same mistake Obama's campaign has made several times, Obama is not the President. Even if he were President, George W. Bush is often referred to as "Dubya" in reference to his middle name.Barack Hussein Obama is his name, if he doesn't like it he can change it. If you don't want him to be called by his name then perhaps you could suggest to him he should change it so it doesn't confuse or cause anybody to be racist. If he doesn't change his name then there shouldn't be problem with people calling him by his name rather than using other derogatory terms.

Satirical 6 years, 11 months ago

scott....Wow, one poll from a company I have never heard of. That is horrible news. Do polls matter or do the issues matter? Oh wait that is right, Obama supporters can never talk about why Obama should be the next President or defend his position on issues so they have to find other stuff to talk about.

jaywalker 6 years, 11 months ago

Logicsound: "Our current President came to be known as "W" because his father shares the same first and last name. It's purely a matter of differentiation."Not only that, his campaign in 00' distributed thousands of small bumper stickers, black background with nothing else but a capital 'W'. He and his propelled his middle initial as a sort of campaign slogan. Don't see too many of those around anymore.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

and then she craps out this gem:"Sati, check these posts again. People were discussing the issue of the debates - basically why Obama should or shouldn't be President - and then Robert H. Marble jumped in with his "osama hussein" line"So...I made a comment you disagreed with...and remembere what happened next? You (bea) immediately began making bogus allegations of racism & obnoxious personal attack. Now tell us bea, is that really the rational way to respond by a different point of view?....and then to go on and say.....", backed by Marion H. Lynn's support of his new bestest buddy forever. The hijacking of the thread happened by the Haters (hence the "H")."so who is the "hater" here bea? You encounter thought you don't like and start making vile accusations in response- then call the people you've attacked the haters? That's definitely not rational bea.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

"You've obviously never been to Sturgis."Way to avoid the issues!! Do I have to go to Sturgis to know that it is ridiculous for McCain to purport to get up and claim to have the answers to our energy issues when he has chosen to speak to 20,000 fill in your descriptor here_ (yuppy wanna be's, dirtbag bikers and their whores, etc.) who have gathered to celebrate the wanton waste of oil and gas. Come on!!!

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

You could go away. I don't know about "these people," but it would make me happy.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

you managed to type all that without calling someone a racist in the process? nice progress...

Mkh 6 years, 11 months ago

Obama wants to increase the size and power of the government while reducing personal liberty. McCain wants to increase the size and power of the government while reducing personal liberty.What in the heck would they have to debate?

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Jay, you may not agree with my comments that racism and racial insensitivity guides many of these posts with comments of "hussein osama" or when invictus today wrote that Obama should go into rap music. Disagree with me if you want, which is fine. I do not, however, just throw it out there because someone disagrees with me. As I've said before, it isn't based on whether you like or dislike McCain or Obama, but rather how you address that dislike. However, "Idiot" as a term is just a throwaway that means nothing. It is like calling someone "purple." If it makes you feel good to call people "idiot," terrific. It is childish though.And the cheerleader sorority girl is an elitist when she happens to be Cindy McCain who inherited her $100 million. I never said all cheerleaders or sorority girls are elitist, but nice attempt at a stretch. Again, if you don't think the born into wealth Cindy McCain is an elitist, fine. I do. Her comments about living in Arizona and just having to fly everywhere in the state is fairly elitist, should you need an example. Robert, you know whether you are a racist or not. I still believe your use of "hussein osama" is racially motivated. Disagree or dismiss my assertion. Fine. However, you might wonder why your reactioin was so intense. In an attempt to find what the meaning of your logon name included a single -- one -- google search. Hardly what I would call as "stalking." Backfire? A couple of posts got removed. Big whoop. Did it cross a line? Yes, as have some of your comments. However, since I had actual information on who I was dealing with, I am sure I used the info more than I should have. I apologize for making it personal. I won't do that again. This is one of the reasons I am all in favor of staying anonymous. But I'm not stalking, nor looking beyond the one thing I found. I do not, however, back away from the comments that the use of "husseim osama" is racially motivated and/or racially insensitive. Calling people idiots, "bed-wetters," and making comments about feminine hygiene (I'm impressed that you can smell through the internet) you end up getting less than civil conversation in return.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Your original post in which you used the phrase "hussein osama" to describe the good Senator from the state of Illinois? You mean that stroke of brilliance? Did you notice I wasn't the first to recognize the obvious racism of such a statement? And you highlight the problem with racial issues in this country today. Normal folks have to call people on their racism, otherwise, they think it is perfectly natural. Should you choose to head toward the border of Afghanistan, I'm sure you would enjoy taking part in an "osama regime." Here, in America, we will be prospering along with our President Obama.

jaywalker 6 years, 11 months ago

I'd say anyone with a clue who read that post, to answer your question. Let's see, where to start....Idiot comment #1: McCain spoke to 20,000 Americans(much more important than Germans, and your characterization of the folks at Sturgis is naive = yuppies and/or wanna be yuppies AND 'dirtbag bikers and their whores' = what are you, two years old? Grow up!)Idiot comment #2: 'gathered to celebrate the wanton waste of oil..' (you just don't have the slightest clue, do ya? Do you have any idea what the mph is for cycles? And do you really think that's why they gathered? Never mind, you're simply too stupid for words)Idiot comment #3: List one of the 'hundred examples' you spout about. And what is that, the "I know you are but what am I defense"? Well played. Does mom cut the crusts off your PB&J's, too? I'm so pleased to not have to read bozo's crappola lately, but you more than make up for his ignorant postings.

jaywalker 6 years, 11 months ago

"Do I have to go to Sturgis to know that it is ridiculous for McCain to purport to get up and claim to have the answers to our energy issues when he has chosen to speak to 20,000 fill in your descriptor here_ (yuppy wanna be's, dirtbag bikers and their whores, etc.) who have gathered to celebrate the wanton waste of oil and gas. Come on!!!"Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

jaywalker 6 years, 11 months ago

I'm oh so sorry to have affected your sensibilities, bea, it should have been 'idiotic' instead of idiot, I was referring to the ignorance of the remarks not the man. And could you insincerely comment on bringing together fellow Americans some more, especially since calling people 'racists' is your particular stock in trade, and you believe cheerleaders and sorority members are 'elitists'. Hypocrite party, table for 1?

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

is this the type of behavior we are to expect from hussein as well?

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

  1. preaching conservatism? you're really grasping for that one sweety. We're discussing a specific issue here- oh wait, is it because my views are different from yours? But I thought you considered that "racism"...which is it bea?7. wanted to stay anonymous? who said anything about staying anonymous? bea, you're fabricating. tsk tsk...all I did was contrast your earlier attack against someone else for mentioning personal things / asking personal questions (which you freaked out about) with your obsession with personal attacks (lol and there's no way you can deny that one, girly)8. psycho? uh bea- you're a certifiable fruit loop. 'nuff said.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

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RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

bea- are you suffering from brain damage? Let's tally up some more of your screwups:1. Bankrupt? far from it. Where'd you get that, anyway? I gotta hear this!2. Pawnbroker? what the hell are you talking about??3.spotty past? how do you figure that, bea? read: "falsely implicated"...and if you spent all those hours stalking me on the net you should have at least read the articles lol...the kbi even publicly exonerated me in the recent one.4. plays with knives? again, you can't read. Go back and have someone tell you the big words. Two knives in a display case hang on my wall...big whoop...or do knives instigate your bed wetting also?5. Racist? bea, we've covered this already. Disagreeing with you does not constitute racism, no matter how you try to spin it..as a matter of fact, nearly everyone here has had to admonish you for making blatantly false statements of that nature. You don't seem to learn, do ya bea?

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

So who thinks me a fool, Jaywalker? You? I am not terribly concerned. Your gambit works better when you are not someone with several hundred examples of failing to follow your own advice.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

so bea..at first I thought you merely had warped viewpoints on issues. You've proven that it goes far beyond that. You are now actually fabricating lies to cover your inadequacies. You should be hussein osama's running mate. But seriously, you do seem to have some emotional issues to work through. Considering your most recent posting, it's probable that you constitute a danger to yourself & possibly others, I sincerely hope you don't have children bea. Please seek counseling.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

Yes, the five posts were required to debunk the multitude of errors and fabrications in yours. That's why I took the care to expose each one, line by line. So you're saying your personal attacks were precipitated by me? How quickly you forget....scroll up bea. it's plain to see; you were the first to begin initiating personal attacks immediately following my initial response to the original thread topic. Immediately you had a tantrum. Of course I reciprocated. But to accuse me of being the catalyst is false- again, all you have to do is scroll up to verify this. But you have shown repeatedly that you consider facts to be irrelevant. Much like hussein. Your behavior certainly represents what we can expect from an osama regime.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

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RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

bea....just "shaddup".....you've dug yourself in too deep to bs your way out of it. Nearly everyone on this thread has had to correct you; just drop it. This is getting silly.

jaywalker 6 years, 11 months ago

"However, "Idiot" as a term is just a throwaway that means nothing. It is like calling someone "purple." If it makes you feel good to call people "idiot," terrific. It is childish though."Once again you show that your higher education guarantees nothing in the form of reading comprehension. You had to have just read my post, I corrected the word to 'idiotic', habla ingles?And don't, as Robert says, dig deep into that absolutely assinine hole again. Do you have any idea how idiotic you sound spouting about 'elitism'? Look up the word in a dictionary. Being born into money, being a cheerleader, a sorority girl - that does not make one an elitist! And your sole 'example' is that she said she likes to fly around Arizona? You puff up and hurl labels like 'racist' around, and yet you wilfully flaunt your own prejudice toward others like you have no faults. If you want to 'believe' C. McCain is an elitist, at least get some factual data to support your bias. 'Elitism' is a worldview just like 'racism' is. But your ignorant rationale is akin to spouting that an Alabama boy named Chuck, who played high school baseball, joined a fraternity, and was born into a family of hunters = He's a racist!!!!Posts like that, bea, further cement my pity for your wasting so much dough on post grad degrees.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

surely bea wouldn't do such a thing- being such a pillar of ethics & integrity & all..... Would a girl like that lower herself to be so vicious & juvenile? Say it ain't so, bea....

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Well, I see somebody has been busy with the "suggest removal" button.And what is this, a neocon calling for censorship of a liberal who doesn't agree with his views? How typical.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

"hussein osama" is all you've got, Robert. And I'm now convinced that your motives aren't racially motivated. Um, really.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

once again you've completely dodged the issue in favor of weak personal attacks, bea. This has nothing to do with "racism", idiot. Had this been any other candidate- better yet, one you didn't personally support- you wouldn't have an issue with this. As a matter of fact you & your brethren would be only too happy to participate bea. It's YOU who is being the racist- seizing upon hussein's race as a springboard to make your vile accusations. That makes you a textbook example of a hypocrite bea...face it, simply disliking hussein osama does NOT make one a racist no matter how much you'd like it to. You're desperately trying to make that the issue. The guy is a scumbag. You can piss & moan about that all you want. Your attempts at censoring dissent by hurling racist claims at anyone who disagrees with your views is sick- you're sounding rather McCarthy-esque bea.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

jayw, I think if you had thrown in one more "idiot" you might have gotten your point across. Without it, your post falls just shy of the mark. I sure am glad this election is bringing us all together as Americans.

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

seems that "racist" is all you've got bea....oh yeah, you did try the internet stalker thing but that sure seemed to backfire on you, eh? hahaha....you tried to used a 20+ year old incident to slander me but failed to notice the same article cleared me as well...you should have done your homework a little better. But you show (repetetively) that reading comprehension isn't exactly your strongpoint. idiot....

RobertMarble 6 years, 11 months ago

Obviously these concepts are too complex for bea to grasp; let's simplify it for her:While calling hussein osama "hussein osama" is indeed derogatory, it is not racially motivated. It's merely an easy opportunity (as bea herself as admitted to using in other cases) for taking a swipe at a candidate who stands for objectionable concepts. I would call him that whether he was white, black, asian, or martian. bea's rabid obsession with trying to make it a racial issue is rather telling of one fact: she is beaten from any other angle and is seizing upon her only opportunity- obfuscation. If the candidates were different- say it was Condi Rice or Colin Powell who I supported, and john kerry or igor oops I mean al gore being supported by bea, she would be unable to play the race card so easily. Bea, review your litany of blabbering and subtract the race card plays & see what you're left with- nothing. You've overlooked a hugely important fact: abusing the race card in fact makes you as much a racist as david duke or al sharpton......you probably had a mental meltdown recently when jesse jackson said of husseing osama "I'd like to cut his nuts off" ...he disparaged your idiot candidate but is black himself- no race card for you to play there, right bea?

jaywalker 6 years, 11 months ago

Never, bea, never ever. Sorry to burst your pre-conditioned notion that since I point out certain posters' ridiculous assertions that must mean I'm a conservative and therefore wholly against liberals and liberal ideology. That isn't the case whatsoever. And I defy you to find any example where I said anything derogatory about Michelle or Barack. I respect them both, and am still likely to vote for BO at this point, but am waiting for debate to cement my choice.

beatrice 6 years, 11 months ago

Only thing I've backed off of are the personal comments. The rest stand true. And Jay, exactly how often have you called the self-made Michelle Obama and elitist? Please.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 11 months ago

Jaywalk challenges "List one of the 'hundred examples' you spout about." I was going to go back and find a few of the dumber and more baseless things you had said, but you just had to make it easy for me. So here you go: " Does mom cut the crusts off your PB&J's, too?"I guess if you have nothing to say on the substance of the points other make, the childish attempt at a put down is what you fall back on. So again I ask:If John McCain in April cancelled a troop hospital visit because concerns about him appearing as a part of a campaign effort arose, why was this never mentioned in the so-called "liberal" press during the week long frenzy of following Obama's trip to Europe and the Middle East? Why did McCain attack Obama for somthing he had done & why did he allow others to do so on his behalf? Does that not stink of hypocrisy?

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