Archive for Tuesday, October 10, 2006

Ads refer to abortion without saying it

AG candidates move clinic records debate to television

October 10, 2006


— The fight over Atty. Gen. Phill Kline's pursuit of abortion records has been waged in the courtroom and during political debates.

Now, it is being brought into the living rooms of Kansans courtesy of televised campaign ads by Kline, a Republican seeking re-election, and Democratic challenger Paul Morrison.

"Abortion is the subtext of this entire race," Washburn University political science professor Bob Beatty said Monday.

Kline is an ardent opponent of abortion; Morrison supports current laws that give women the right to have an abortion.

New Kline ad

Kline on Monday defended trying to get the abortion records from two clinics by implying in a new television ad that the records were needed to investigate allegations of children being raped.

"Every single prosecution of a child rapist involves medical records," Kline says in the ad.

"He (Morrison) would frighten the people of Kansas and walk away from a child rape investigation because Paul's supporters do not want the law enforced," Kline says in the ad.

Morrison, the district attorney of Johnson County for the past 18 years, denounced the campaign commercial.

"That's so unbelievably untrue, it's absurd," Morrison said.

"Medical records"

Campaign ad for Atty. Gen. Phill Kline, about his use of medical records to prosecute criminals. Enlarge video

Morrison noted three-fourths of the 90 medical records sought by Kline belong to adult women - not children.

"This is about the attorney general of the state of Kansas deciding to use the full power of government to pursue his personal agenda, and that is an abuse of authority," Morrison said.

Morrison already had an ad on television that said Kline "wants our personal medical files in the government's hands."

Court fight

In September 2004, Shawnee County District Judge Richard Anderson subpoenaed 90 records at Kline's request from clinics operated by George Tiller, a Wichita doctor who performs abortions, and Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri. The secret inquisition was made public when the clinics asked the Kansas Supreme Court to block the subpoenas.

Kline said he was investigating allegations of child rape and illegal late-term abortions. The clinics accused Kline of going on a fishing expedition and trying to intimidate women from getting abortions.

The Supreme Court sent the case back to Anderson, directing him to ensure that patients' privacy rights were maintained before the medical records could be reviewed. The case file has been sealed by the district court.

Ads about abortion

The ads from both camps dealing with the issue don't mention the word abortion.

"General election campaigns are not run on abortion as a key issue. It is seen as too divisive," Beatty said.

Reader poll
What do you think of Attorney General Phill Kline's effort to obtain abortion clinic records?

or See the results without voting


That's why, Beatty said, Morrison's ad says Kline is violating Kansans' privacy, while Kline maintains he needs the records to fight crime.

Beatty said it is difficult to predict how voters will respond to the issue.

What would Morrison do?

In recent weeks, Kline has announced that several recent cases of alleged child abuse were related to a broader investigation of sex crimes against children.

But legal authorities have said the cases have had nothing to do with the abortion records in dispute.

Meanwhile, Morrison has been questioned recently for refusing to say whether he'd abandon pursuit of the records from the clinics, even though he has been hammering Kline over the issue for nearly a year.

On Monday, Morrison said, "We'd have to see whether or not there is any real evidence to support that pursuit. I suspect that there is not because of the fact that not one single prosecution has come of this, despite what General Kline continues to say," Morrison said.


context 11 years, 7 months ago

Recall the old adage "power corrupts". If you ever thought Bush was an arrogant (silver spoon, military service dodging) abuser of his position, just allow Kline to remain in office. This guy's the antithesis of a true public servant. If you do not recognize that he's abused his position and that his personal political gain has been his primary objective, you are not just lying to yourself ... you are slow. Remember his shamless attack ads when he ran against Dennis Moore several years ago? Phill Kline is a slimey political stunt. If for whatever reason you -- John Q. Voter -- believe Kline is more qualified to lead the office of attorney general than Morrison, then I strongly suspect you have very little interest in law enforcement and tunnel vision (I need not point out your only interest) with respect to the issues in play.

ECM 11 years, 7 months ago

Wow did Paul Morrison pay for this ad or was it free like most left winged "articles" in this paper.

KS 11 years, 7 months ago

BrainCase - Well said! That is the logic that everyone else has seemed to forget this morning. He is just doing his job and if he looked the other way and someone preyed on an underaged girl, the AG would have been run out of town on a rail.

SettingTheRecordStraight 11 years, 7 months ago

When you watch Kline's ad, it makes a lot of sense.

KS 11 years, 7 months ago

Centrist - "there was no smoking gun" - How can you say that? Do you work inside the AG's office? Are you privy to some information that the rest of us don't have?

DaREEKKU 11 years, 7 months ago

That's fine, let Phil Kline exploit abortion records. And then after that he can make public every medical record/aspect of every single person who supports him.

context 11 years, 7 months ago

Gosh ... I've goofed the spelling of "shameless". Can't wait to hear from all the geniuses.

kmat 11 years, 7 months ago

Braincase - You're point has no logic.

"until one of my daughters gets raped by some predator that could have been prosecuted if the laws had allowed the AG to pursue the criminal. This is going to be an issue, and when somebody's daughter is raped by someone who has a track record of preying on little girls, fingers are going to be pointed."

If you raised your daughter right and she trusted her parents, wouldn't she tell you if someone raped her? Do you need to count on the AG to go through every woman and young girls medical records to find out if there was a possibility of rape? And if your underage daughter was actually raped (and wasn't just screwing around at too young of an age - which would once again show your parenting skills), is it the job of the AG to tell you and seek out the father of the child?

Think about this people. No one wants a young girl to be taken advantage of. It's the AG's job to prosecute these cases, not dig for months and months through PRIVATE medical records looking for the possibility of a crime. People in this state have lost their minds!!! What the heck ever happened to privacy?

It isn't the AG's job to act as parent. If you want any young girl that might go to a clinic to have to have a parent present, then change the laws. Don't infringe on everyone's rights. You state in your point that "if the laws had allowed the AG to pursue the criminal" - so it's ok to violate the current laws that protect privacy instead of changing them to require parental consent?

KS 11 years, 7 months ago

centrist - If he started disclosing stuff, you would be all over his case for privacy violations. Like someone else said, I am not necessarily a big fan of Phill Kline, but as I see it, he is just doing his job and some of you just can't handle that. He has no obligation to reveal a name of a place, etc. and yes, I am okay with that. If he is lying, that is something else, but that is not the argument here or am I missing something?

Lethargic_Bureaucrat 11 years, 7 months ago

Remember that Kline calls it "child rape" when a minor 15 and under has any sort of consensual sex, even with another minor of like age.

oldgoof 11 years, 7 months ago

Personally, I am going send all of my medical records to Bill Frist, 'cause we know he can diagnose medical conditions (Shiavo) by glancing at a video tape. .. That should hold down my medical costs. ..

Centrist 11 years, 7 months ago

oldgoof ... you could send 'em to Hastert ... they would be safe from public scrutiny :)

Centrist 11 years, 7 months ago

You all seem to forget that there was no "smoking gun". Phill Kline simply decided to go looking into records to look for bad apples - in secret! This would not have been made public had the Supreme Court not been involved.

Abortion or not is irrelevant to the wider issue here - do you want your government looking through records without a trigger? Aren't we entitled to a warrant before the cops come into your home?

Think about that, people, and forget the left-vs-right crap.

BrianR 11 years, 7 months ago

Are we now pretending that the terms "values" and "family values" aren't code for abortion.

Are voters that stupid?

Bob Reinsch 11 years, 7 months ago

OK... what is the argument? A woman's right to an abortion? Or an AG's responsibility to pursue those that have committed statory rape? The law is that abortion is legal, but if an underage child has an abortion, then a statutory rape has ben committed. The question is whether or not as a society we'll turn a blind eye to it and allow a paedophile to continue walking the streets, perhaps allowing another rape to take place, or does this type of abortion, need to be protected just like other type of medical records? I'm no fan of Phil Kline, but I think the current law can be used to protect rapists, paedophiles, and incestuous fathers. But hey, it's not really my business... until one of my daughters gets raped by some predator that could have been prosecuted if the laws had allowed the AG to pursue the criminal. This is going to be an issue, and when somebody's daughter is raped by someone who has a track record of preying on little girls, fingers are going to be pointed.

Centrist 11 years, 7 months ago

KS - The A-G has never disclosed a specific case as a reason for the search. He has never publicly justified it. He could have easily named a place, or partially I.D'd a case without giving away actual names. It just hasn't happened.

I'm guessing you're ok with that?

Centrist 11 years, 7 months ago

KS ... why do you say "context" is a sore loser?? If he/she is a Moore supporter, they are a "winner".

And there was nothing "personal" in that post.

Great job of ignorance ...

That's it. I'm outa here. Can't argue with people when they just want to be political instead of philosophically neutral.

Centrist 11 years, 7 months ago

KS ... why the records of ADULT women then?? They did nothing ILLEGAL ...

dirkleisure 11 years, 7 months ago

Listen to him - "Every single prosecution of a child rapist involves medical records."

What he's not saying is that he is after, based purely on supposition, only the medical records of women. It is a blatant lie to say that every such case involves the woman's medical records.

In fact, there was just recently a case in Johnson County involving unlawful sex with a minor. The woman's medical records were never at issue. That case was also "covered" by Kline's media outfit, freestatemedia.

This isn't a suprise. His first ad, which is posted at YouTube, also stretches the truth. Of course, it also features the exact same footage as this new ad.

Here's the first ad:

On the right hand side, you can scroll through other ads from the AG's race.

KS 11 years, 7 months ago

DaREEKKU - Surely you didn't learn that logic at KU? Don't be so bitter!

KS 11 years, 7 months ago

christie - You are right up there with DaREEKKU. Can't you argue the point with something relevant?

KS 11 years, 7 months ago

context - Just bitter or a sore loser? Good grief, where do you guys get all of this crap? Why do you have to be so personal?

xenophonschild 11 years, 7 months ago

Unfortunately, yes - they are.

Our Kansas is full of parkays and rightthinkers and pilgrims and other assorted troglodytes; hopefully, they can be outvoted.

Kline is even more dangerous than I originally thought. He truly is a modern Savonarola. He actually responded to a question about whether or not he, as the state's chief law enforcement officer, would defend a woman's right to abortion: "Absolutely."


KS 11 years, 7 months ago

As I understand it, it is NOT the records of adult women. It is the records of underage girls. Morrison said in the article that 90% of the records were of adult women. If this is such private stuff, how does he know that? I would agree with you that if it is the records of adult women, there is no reason for Kline to go after them since abortion is legal. I am guessing that the reason for the adult records is for the late term abortion thing, but as I udnerstand it, as reprehensible as that procedure is, it is apparently legal in the State of Kansas. Just shows you how barbaric we are, huh?

MeeMa8 11 years, 7 months ago

the point is "right to privacy." If any person, regardless of age, decides not to come forward and press charges if they are raped or abused, it is their right to do so. whether we agree or not, they have a right to private medical records. Kline cannot break the law just because it fits his agenda.

Centrist 11 years, 7 months ago

KS, I would agree that late-term abortions should be outlawed. It is reprehensible, unless medically necessary. However, I don't think there's a tidal wave of those, as the Right would have us believe. It's another excuse to impose draconian attitudes on a "modern" society.

And don't be blind, Kline is searching through the records of the clinics, not just individuals - that means he can get all records, not just the "possibly underage" ones.

Paul Morrison would certainly be privy to the type of information that identifies which records are involved. He would have access to the Court, etc. After all, the man is in the law-enforcement business.

ControlFreak 11 years, 7 months ago


The reason Morrison knows that is because the requests were made public when it went to the Kansas supreme Court.

As for child rape...

Under our current laws, age of consent is 16. It is only statutory rape if the people having sex are more than 1 year apart. Therefore, two 15 year olds could be having sex and not breaking the law. The girl get's pregnant and her parents get her an abortion.

Nothing above is illegal.

Now, if the girl were 15 and the boy 17 it would be statutory rape, even if both were consenting. If she were 16 and he were 18, you'd have the same issue. If she were 17 and he was 19 you would not.

Therefore, not every girl under the age of 16 having an abortion has been raped. Teenagers having sex is nothing new.

Lifesupport 11 years, 7 months ago

Let's put the responsibility for this mess where it belongs - on the abortion clinics. Phil Kline would not have to go after abortion clinic records if the clinics did their job by making the child abuse hotline calls as mandatory reporters. The fact is that abortion clinics have repeatedly failed to protect children from sexual predators. Phil Kline's efforts have led to at least one arrest of a sexual predator that was never reported by the abortionist. Can the abortion clinics prove they have complied with the mandatory reporting law each and every time? Why don't they just come out and say that they made these many referrals to child protective services? One can easy compare how many abortions they performed on underage girls and how many referrals they made to the hotline each year. It seems they are trying to hide the fact that they do not call the hotline when they should have. They are more interested in selling abortions to minors, sending them home with the predators, and covering up their failures.

roger_o_thornhill 11 years, 7 months ago

I doubt anyone outside of the AG's office knows the true scope of his "investigations". Besides, it sounds from the article that he is fishing.

Mostly I dislike any misleading campaign ads--no matter which "side" they come from. I'm almost positive that Mr. Morrison doesn't relish the idea of "protecting" these supposed "child rapists".

Besides, have any of these "child rapists" been prosecuted as a result of Mr. Kline's "fishing trip"?

Plus, what's wrong with the word "abortion". If that is what you are talking about, say it. Quit trying to trick the dopes who don't pay that much attention.

Baille 11 years, 7 months ago

It is uncontroverted that the records request at the heart of Alpha Medical v. Kline included the records of adult women and minors alike. This has been revealed by all parties in the issue and I believe was discussed by the Court in its opinion.

Kline's position is that he is investigating statutory rape, forcible rape, and the provision of late-term abortions in contravention of the law. However, Kline's inquest is not based on probable cause specific to each of the individuals for whom he requested their medical records. Instead, it is based on knowledge that a crime may have been committed. Under this light, any review of medical records should be done in a way that absolutely protects the anonymity of the women and girls until specific probable cause of a crime can be shown.

Instead Kline went fishing. Look, let's say you have knowledge that a crime was committed and the patient was seen at LMH. You don't know the name, age or gender of the victim so instead you start an inquest and you get all the medical records from LMH. AS you sift and sort and read through everyone's personal information you hope to find the evidence and the victim of teh crie of which you claim knowledge. There is no justification for such a broad search. It would be appropriate to pull the records from that day, redact all identifying information, and conduct your search with some sensitivity and tact. In this way, people don't get scared to go to the doctor. Of course, Kline wants people scared to go to Aplha Medical Clinicn because he doesn't think they have the right to choose to end a pre-viability pregnancy.

Fine. Preach about it. Politic about it. But when you abuse process you are abusing your authority. That is what Kline has done. Based not on specific probable cause but rather on some lesser standard, he has asked for the medical records of women and minor females alike just so he can sift throug hthem in hops of findning evidence of a crime. This is abuse.

Further, not only does Kline believe that two 14- or 15-year-olds having sex is child abuse, he believes that the consenting partners are both victim and abuser. From this comes his position on mandated reporters. How far from Kline's position that your 15-year-old pregnant girl seeking an abortion is both a criminal and a sexual predator does one have to go before these teenagers are being listed on some registration website? I think if we were ever cursed enough to see Kline serve as long as Stephan we would end up debating the pros and cons of affixing scarlet letters to their school uniforms.

christie 11 years, 7 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

oldvet 11 years, 7 months ago

to MeeMa8's comment: the point is "right to privacy." If any person, regardless of age, decides not to come forward and press charges if they are raped or abused, it is their right to do so. whether we agree or not, they have a right to private medical records. Kline cannot break the law just because it fits his agenda.

Kansas law makes it a felony for any person to knowingly harbor, conceal or aid any person who has committed a felony under the laws of this state or another state or the United States with intent that such person shall avoid or escape from arrest, trial, conviction or punishment for such felony.

Thus, if you have knowledge of a person who commits a felony (in your example, rape, which would include both statutory rape, date rape and even "Uncle Bill" getting frisky with your young daughter, or your example of criminal abuse), you do NOT have the right to just look the other way... lest you also be guilty of a felony. That position you would like to take is one of the reasons why we have predators walking around loose today.

Linda Endicott 11 years, 7 months ago

If Kline had specific information about a specific case, and only asked for the records for that case, it would be a different matter.

But he didn't do that. He asked for all records, and IMHO that's because he doesn't agree with abortion, doesn't think women should be allowed to get abortions at all, even though it's legal, and wants people to worry so much about the possibility of their private medical records becoming publicized that they'll stop having abortions.

He doesn't have any specific cases in mind here. He's tried to do a blanket search. He hasn't "saved" any children or "protected" any children at all. Not one person has been convicted of any crime as a result of the records. There haven't even been any charges filed.

So what did he really use the information for? Just scare tactics?

Confrontation 11 years, 7 months ago

Anyone who picks their candidates by watching these tv ads should not be allowed to vote. There are too many uneducated idiots out there. Look at the last two presidential elections if you need some examples.

betti81 11 years, 7 months ago

What Kline is hoping to do is discredit the clinics. He is "praying" to find something, anything to find Dr. Tiller and other doctors "guilty" of something so he can go back to his little friends and say "HA". It makes me sick to think the A.G. can just randoming sift through medical records of U.S. citizens who have not broken the law. If a minor has an abortion, it is not Kline's duty to seek them out against their will and pry into their private life. making such a decision, to have an abortion or have a child, is not done lightly (despite what some would like to propagate). No outside entity has a right interfere based on a hunch or a feeling. ALL health professionals are required to report any suspected abuse including abortion doctors. Kline does not trust this to happen because of his moral beliefs not on any legal grounds. Boo to you Phil Kline and boo to your politics in the guise of justice. justice is a lovely lady who is blind for a reason.

(i have so much to say, but the more i type the angrier i get and the worse my spelling and grammer get--uugghh!)

opinion 11 years, 7 months ago

roger o thornhill wrote:

"I doubt anyone outside of the AG's office knows the true scope of his "investigations". Besides, it sounds from the article that he is fishing."

You may be right but I would look beyond Kansas Democratic Party reporter Scott Rothschild to get the full story. The link below covers the same topic but in it Judge Anderson has some insight into the records sought:

"In an October 2004 order, issued after the subpoenas, Anderson said even the clinics conceded that under certain circumstances, the state could demonstrate a "compelling interest" justifying the subpoenas. Also, as Kline has noted, Anderson found probable cause to believe the records could contain evidence of crimes.

Finally, Anderson said Kline was aware of "the need to conduct the investigation in the least intrusive manner to the privacy interests of patients." Kline's campaign attached a copy of the order to a news release about its new ad. "

Full story in link below:

Teapot9 11 years, 7 months ago

I like Phil Kline, but what bothers me is that he looks like the bad guy in Clear and Present Danger starring Harrison Ford.

Centrist 11 years, 7 months ago

"like" should read "support" more often .... what's there to "like" about Fabulous Phill ?? C'mon, really ... gimme a break.

Lethargic_Bureaucrat 11 years, 7 months ago

ControlFreak wrote:

"Under our current laws, age of consent is 16. It is only statutory rape if the people having sex are more than 1 year apart. Therefore, two 15 year olds could be having sex and not breaking the law. The girl get's pregnant and her parents get her an abortion."

The only like-age exception is found in 21-3522, the Romeo and Juliet law, which lessons the penalty if the partner is less than 19 and within four years of age. The sex is still a felony.

Baille 11 years, 7 months ago

21-3522. Unlawful voluntary sexual relations.

(a) Unlawful voluntary sexual relations is engaging in voluntary: (1) Sexual intercourse; (2) sodomy; or (3) lewd fondling or touching with a child who is 14 years of age but less than 16 years of age and the offender is less than 19 years of age and less than four years of age older than the child and the child and the offender are the only parties involved and are members of the opposite sex.

(b) (1) Unlawful voluntary sexual relations as provided in subsection (a)(1) is a severity level 8, person felony.

(2) Unlawful voluntary sexual relations as provided in subsection (a)(2) is a severity level 9, person felony.

(3) Unlawful voluntary sexual relations as provided in subsection (a)(3) is a severity level 10, person felony

Baille 11 years, 7 months ago

Held Unconstitutional by State v. Limon, 122 P.3d 22, 23+, 275+ (Kan. Oct 21, 2005)

Katara 11 years, 7 months ago

"Kline has argued that he can't determine whether the abortion clinics are complying with restrictions on late-term abortions or properly reporting child abuse without seeing medical records. "

From the article opinion linked to.

If the issue is child rape/or abuse, then why is Kline focusing on abortion clinics? Why isn't he requesting medical records from all OB-Gyns, midwives, birthing centers & hospitals? Don't you want to make sure they are properly reporting child abuse too?

Is the assumption that if one chooses to have an abortion, then one is covering up a crime?

From the LJW article, ""Every single prosecution of a child rapist involves medical records," Kline says in the ad."

I would say that is a false assertion. Did all of the cases involving child rapists on the KS website involve medical records? One would only have to look up the cases and find out the truth, Phill. Isn't there something in the Bible about bearing false witness?

From Kline's ad, "He (Morrison) would frighten the people of Kansas and walk away from a child rape investigation because Paul's supporters do not want the law enforced."

Kline, that comment alone is enough to keep me from voting for you.

GOPConservative 11 years, 7 months ago

Phill Kline is lying when he claims that his bad behavior has to do with child rape.

His obvious motive was to chip away at our Constitutional rights.

I'm sure socialists like Phill Kline and Jim Ryun would also like to monitor all our bank records and all our phone calls so they can find "evidence of crimes," but this is United States, not the old Soviet Union.

The difference between America and the Soviet Union is that our government is supposed to have "probable cause" of a specific crime by a specific person in order to invade private records. The Soviet KGB approach used by Kline is against the basic principles of our Nation.

Obviously, if Kline were sincere about prosecuting child rape cases, he would also investigate "shot gun weddings" and "baby farms," but even there, he is obliged to follow Constitutional principles.

The courts were correct in not letting Kline go on a fishing expedition of our private records, and Morrison is correct in stopping this big-government socialist before he sets up further totalitarian invasions of our privacy to expand his big-brother Soviet vision.

Groucho 11 years, 7 months ago

ControlFreak is mistaken about sex between 15- and 16-year-olds being legal:

"Aggravated indecent liberties with a child is sexual intercourse with a child who is 14 or more years of age but less than 16 years of age." K.S.A. 21-3504(a)(1).

"Aggravated indecent liberties with a child as described in subsections (a)(1) is a severity level 3, person felony."

There is no exception in that statute based on the offender's age.

The only sex crime I know of that refers to the relative ages of the victim and the offender is this one:

K.S.A. 21-3522. Unlawful voluntary sexual relations. "(a) Unlawful voluntary sexual relations is engaging in voluntary: (1) Sexual intercourse; (2) sodomy; or (3) lewd fondling or touching with a child who is 14 years of age but less than 16 years of age and the offender is less than 19 years of age and less than four years of age older than the child and the child and the offender are the only parties involved and are members of the opposite sex."

"(b) (1) Unlawful voluntary sexual relations as provided in subsection (a)(1) is a severity level 8, person felony."

"(2) Unlawful voluntary sexual relations as provided in subsection (a)(2) is a severity level 9, person felony."

"(3) Unlawful voluntary sexual relations as provided in subsection (a)(3) is a severity level 10, person felony."

Note that the described acts are still a crime and still a felony. This so-called Romeo & Juliet statute did nothing more than lower the penalty; it did not legalize the conduct.

I'm not expressing any opinion about whether these are good laws or bad laws. They are the current laws. Lobby your legislators if you think they should be changed.

Katara 11 years, 7 months ago

Ummm, GOPconservative, although I agree with you, I must point out that the Soviet Union is no longer. Kline is much more concerned with having a theocracy than a socialist utopia. I'd compare it more along the lines of living under the Taliban.

desinr 11 years, 7 months ago

Here's the question we should be asking:

If Phil Kline really wants to stop "child rape," why is he pursuing only abortion records?

Why not pursue hospitals to release patient names and ages of all births?

Why only the narrow minority of people proven to have underage sex (through pregnancy) that choose to terminate said pregnancy?

If you are going to make a commitment and go after this type of crime you cannot pick and choose your fights and only attack those who undergo a procedure you are against. The fact that Kline chooses only to fixate himself on that facet of the issue leads me to believe he doesn't care how old the child is that has sex, just as long as they don't have an abortion.

Rationalanimal 11 years, 7 months ago


You missed an important detail (maybe intentionally). Kline AND Morrison are making this an issue. So whatever condemnation you have of Kline making this a hot button issue should also be equally attributed to Morrison. Can anyone honestly say with a straight face that Morrison is not hoping to get a political advantage from this issue? Yeah, didn't think so.

My favorite statement from Paul Morrison's ads is where he says he's for "zero tolerance for 'violent' sexual predators". That seems to imply PM has a less than zero tolerance for non-violent sexual predators. That seems to make PM out of touch with mainstream Kansas, unless of course Kansans are accepting of non-violent sexual predators.

opinion 11 years, 7 months ago


You may have missed it but during the online Q/A yesterday, a person posed a similar allegation of PK only focusing on the clinics. Here is the question and his response:

"youngitized: Why do you continue your crusade against the abortion clinics, when there are more pressing issues such as identity theft, price gouging at the gas pumps, and preserving our right to privacy?

Attorney General Phill Kline: First of all, it is the media that focuses on this issue not I. I have devoted my time to successfully arguing before the United States Surpeme Court, passing Jessica's law, establishing the Vulnerable Adults Task Force, breaking open the Kaufman case, establishing the Abuse and Neglect Unit to protect our elderly, initiating the lawsuit regarding the towing company here in Lawrence, etc.

Attorney General Phill Kline: But I must mention that my office has been involved in over 700 cases of adults sexually exploiting children since I have been Attorney General. Our Cyber Crimes Task Force has placed over 90 Internet predators of children behind bars and we have pursued several cases of child rape. In every case of child rape you use the corroborating physical evidence reflected in the medical file to support the child's testimony. Child witnesses are often terrified to confront their abusers and you need these medical records. Paul knows this and has admitted that he has sought medical records in his cases. As it relates to my investigation of criminal late-term and partial birth abortion - we never sought the identity of the adult women and you cannot prove the case without reviewing the doctor's notation regarding the procedure used. A District Court Judge found probable cause to believe that crimes have occurred and that evidence of the crimes are in the records. The Judge issued a subpoenaed the records. It is my job to enforce the law and I will. "

Rationalanimal 11 years, 7 months ago

And the truth shall set you free from the rhetoric of liberal/socialist dogma.

bunnyhawk 11 years, 7 months ago

If Kline gave a rat's rear end about increasing conviction rates for child molesters and abusers, he would ask SRS for records of substantiated reports of physical and sexual abuse of children and compare those substantiated reports with local district attorney's offices prosecution case files. I do believe we would all be shocked at the large numbers of Kansans who harm innocent children and suffer absolutely NO CONSEQUENCES for their heinous acts. Kline's strategy is clearly related ONLY to limiting women's right to choose........there is NOTHING in his record to indicate any meaninful concern about the safety of Kansas children.

bunnyhawk 11 years, 7 months ago

And let's not forget that Kline has out and out lied about the 'benefits' of the information he has sought from the state's few remaining abortion providers. He claimed that a prosecution was underway in Sedgewick county as the result of information gained from patient's files. The Sedgwick County DA said that was not the case; that the prosecution was based on a police investigation........isn't that the way we normally do things??? And further, the legal issues are still pending and the clinic announced they had never released any records to him to start with!!! KLINE LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

justthefacts 11 years, 7 months ago

There are probably no criminal investigators/prosecutors who have not, at some point, had to subpeona medical records of a private citizen, if/when a point of medical health/treatment was at issue (e.g. how badly hurt the victim is/was will need the medical records to back it up). Subpoenaing such information is the only way to get it into evidence if/when a prosecution results. Anyone watching enough TV CSI knows that the "cops" can look at private medical records if they get a subpoena/warrant allowing them to look. And not all of the searches result in the discovery of a crime (or evidence that is used in court). And the only time/way the information in the records would be made public (i.e. used in court) is if/when a case is filed and the records are needed as evidence. Even in such a case, the NAME of the patient would be kept confidential. The comments or claims to contrary are red-herrings or from someone uninformed about the judicial process.

The statement "This would not have been made public had the Supreme Court not been involved....." either ignores or is ignorant of the facts of the case. The investigation WAS being done as an inquisition - which BY LAW is required to be a closed proceeding (to protect the innocent) done to determine if laws have been violated. In this case there were multiple possible laws in question; not just child rape by late term abortions (which are illegal). Medical records are relevant to such investigations. The only reason it became common knowledge is because some of the clinics being investigated filed cases challenging the attempts to look at their abortion records.

Finally, everyone who is upset with General Kline has a right to their feelings and view points. While the office holder does FAR MORE then prosecute/investigate violations of criminal laws (a ton of boring less sexy civil legal work is done by the office), the thing that is getting the most attention (why?) is the abortion issue.

So what the vote appears to come down to may in fact be this; Those who approve of abortion on demand (for all people of all ages no matter how far along the pregnancy) will vote against Kline. Those who do not approve of that view will vote for Kline.

Rationalanimal 11 years, 7 months ago

holylib, et al:

You have seriously derailed, not to mention the fact you failed to address the merits of my arguments (I know, I know, the very witty and very original comeback argument is "what substance", and the reply to that is the equally original and witty argument "your used to getting that"--its scary how well I know and can anticipate the liberal/socialist mind). Where in the world do you come up with the wild assumptions in you last post. You expressly admit your socialist/liberal views are out of touch with mainstream Kansas. Such an admission also implicitly admits your on the fringes, not individuals who hold conservative views. Finally, if I did profess to embrace any of the various general political philosophies floating around right now, and I happened to embrace convservatism, I wouldn't apologize for holding such views. Being a conservative is not something to be ashamed of. The logic is well supported in the traditional sense of uqualified premise, premise, etc, conclusion rather than the liberal mode of logic, conclusion and to heck with any premises, let alone objective premises. In contrast, the hackles of liberals seem to bristle at the characterization of such. Explain to me why that is. I've already given you a bunch of hints.

Evidently I touched a nerve asking whether it is disingenuous to assert that PM is not hoping to capitalize on the abortion issue. I should have been more sensitive in the use of the term or otherwise concept known as "capitalize". I understand now that's a concept not understood by the capitalist-challenged socialist/liberals citizens down at the Boog Pig. You guys are phoney as you accuse PK of being for not being willing to admit PM is not hoping to gain and advantage out of this issue. PM's own political adds references to PK's treatment towards abortion. But, conveniently the facts are overlooked to ensure the desired conclusion is reached. Nice try at ignoring the truth. Other liberal/socialists on here have attempted to make a drive-by post lacking meritorious arguments.

Baille 11 years, 7 months ago

Morrison said no such thing. Unlike Kline, Morrison actually prosecutes rapists, murderers, and thise who prey on children. Phill just talks about them. He doesn't prosecute and has never prosecuted a criminal case in his life. Even allowing him the luxury of relying on the AG staff, I have not seen that the number of cases related to child abuse, whether sexual or physical, has risen under Kline's watch. What were the numbers before and what are they now?

As for Alpha Medical v. Kline, Phill could have gotten those records in their redacted form. That means all identifying information is kept confidential. Then, once probable cause specific to a certain victim/predator (because according to Kline two 15-year-olds having sex are both), the identities of the parties could be revealed and the investigation could go forward based on that specific crime. Kline chose to conduct his inquisition in a manner meant to chill communication between pregnant women and their doctors. Plus, in the process of investigating this claim, he ignored court orders, revealed sealed information, and put himself above the law and the privacy interests of the parties.

No one is saying that crimes involving children or violations of laws regulating medical treatment should not be investigated and prosecuted. Paul Morrison has certainly never said that. However, such investigations and prosecutions must be done in a responsible and reasonable manner. Phill's phishingg expedition was anything but responsible and reasonable.

Attorney General Kline is a joke.

opedog 11 years, 7 months ago

Hey Katara, is that who I think it is. I don't know who else it could be. Oh well, if not then I must say Phil Kline is not good for this state. He reinforces all the negative things about this state and hopefully the population will vote him out of office. Free thinking people unite!

Moderate_Republican 11 years, 7 months ago

logicsound04 said,

"Wrong. Two 15-year-olds having consensual sex is not statutory rape."

It is Unlawful Voluntary Sexual Relations, K.S.A. 21-3522. Read the statute. It is a felony. Even voluntary "lewd fondling" is a felony.

Didn't you lewdly fondle yourself or someone else, or get lewdly fondled, at 15? Do you want Phill to know?

Moderate_Republican 11 years, 7 months ago

Mandatory reporters are trained to recognize abuse, so they can exercise their judgment when to report it. Phill is not so trained.

Phill, however, believes all sex of any sort under age 16 is child abuse. Read A.G. Opinion 2003-17.

xenophonschild 11 years, 7 months ago

Kline is scum, but Morrison must respond - quickly and effectively - now, he must put Kline on the defensive for his lies and professional misconduct.

The outcome of the election may depend on what Morrison does to combat Kline's lies and misconceptions now, in the next few days.

Lifesupport 11 years, 7 months ago


Why did you bring Christ's name into this? I didn't. And, who are you representing here on earth? The devil?

I did not mention George Tiller's name either in my post. So, what makes you think I was talking about him? George Tiller was not the only abortionist in Kansas. Let me get this straight: Tiller has the integrity to provide all the right forms to the Kansas Department of Health and Environment but has no problem doing late term abortions. Gee, I'm glad he has his priorities straight.

Let's look at more information about Mr. Tiller:

Felony Assault (2 incidents) Wichita abortionist George Tiller arrived at work on Saturday, January 7, 1989, only to find 67 pro-life rescuers blocking the entrances to his clinic. Enraged, he ran over and seriously injured a pro-lifer with his car, and then rammed a policeman on a motorcycle. Incredibly, the police allowed Tiller to enter the clinic, where he killed ten babies before police finally responded to the demands of outraged rescuers and arrested him. Twenty women were turned away that day by the rescuers. Tiller was eventually charged with felony assault. The attitude of the police towards him was typically cavalier; while Tiller had attempted to kill a pro-lifer and a cop, he would have gone scot-free had the other activists not demanded his arrest. Meanwhile, all 67 of those attempting to save lives by trespassing (a misdemeanor at most) were arrested and charged as soon as possible.

If you would like to see all the other incidents of pro-choice violence against pro-lifers in Kansas, go to

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