Topeka — U.S. Rep. Jim Ryun, R-Kan., didn't know what hit him.
A five-term incumbent, Ryun was soundly defeated Tuesday by Democratic challenger Nancy Boyda, stunning most observers and contributing to a Democratic recapture of the U.S. House.
Ryun easily defeated Boyda when she first challenged him in 2004.
"Winning is a lot more fun," Boyda told a cheering crowd at the Democrats' victory party.
Ryun, a conservative Republican and devout Christian, appeared dazed in his concession speech shortly before 11 p.m.
"I still think we have the right values," he said, shortly before thanking his staff and turning the microphone over to his wife, Ann, who praised God.
"To God be the glory for the great things he has done," she said, smiling. "We are people of faith."
Minutes later, Ryun, his family and staff left the stage, declining to meet with reporters.
In 2004, Ryun defeated Boyda by almost 44,000 votes. She won this election by about 7,800 votes with 95 percent of precincts reporting at 12:45 a.m. today, 51 percent to 47 percent.
In her victory speech, Boyda said Congress needs to break the influence of big money, tackle the problems of health care and craft a balanced energy policy.
Reader poll
She credited her victory to a grass-roots campaign and education for voters with lots of information in the form of newspaper inserts.
"Staying low and under the radar was absolutely part of our strategy," she said. "We've worked many, many hours to get this thing done."
'Different campaign'
Boyda's campaign purposefully distanced itself from the national Democratic Party, capitalizing on voter discontent with Congress and the war in Iraq.
"She ran a very different kind of campaign," said House Speaker Doug Mays, R-Topeka. "She took advantage of some things going on nationally. She articulated an almost populist tone that appealed to independent and unaffiliated voters. She even managed to appeal to some of the Libertarian types, the old Ross Perot supporters.
"And, naturally, she had a solid Democrat base as well."
President Bush campaigned for Ryun on Sunday in Topeka.
"I suspect that only resonated with the hard core," said Mark Weeks, a history and political science instructor at Allen County Community College in Iola.
"A lot of churches in this area aren't going to be very happy about this," Weeks said. "Ryun resonated with people with strong church ties. To them, Boyda's victory will be a slap in the face by the liberals and academics - a case of not sticking to the agenda we need to stick to."
Addressing a somber crowd of supporters, Ryun said, "I still believe we have the right values."
Anti-status quo
The 2nd District spans 26 eastern Kansas counties, stretching from Nebraska to Oklahoma. The bulk of the district's voters are in Douglas, Shawnee, Leavenworth and Riley counties.
Leavenworth County is home to Fort Leavenworth; Riley County borders Geary County, which includes Fort Riley.
In 2004, Riley and Leavenworth counties favored Ryun by 8,870 votes. This year, the two counties favored Ryun by less than 2,000 votes.
"More than anything, Nancy Boyda's victory reflects a dissatisfaction with Congress for what's seen as being nonresponsive to the nation's problems: the war in Iraq, energy prices, illegal immigrants," said Bob Beattie, a political science professor at Washburn University.
"I suspect it's not so much anti-Jim Ryun," he said of Boyda's victory. "It's more a feeling that America's problems aren't being addressed by the incumbents. It's more anti-status quo."
Ryun's loss of support in Leavenworth County surprised State Rep. Candy Ruff, D-Leavenworth.
"If you're in the military, you tend to vote Republican," Ruff said.
Boyda's victory over a Republican incumbent is not unprecedented in Kansas. Since 1970:
¢ Then-Johnson County District Dist. Atty. Dennis Moore defeated U.S. Rep. Vince Snowbarger, a Republican and former legislator from Olathe, in 1999. Moore is now in his fourth term in Congress.
¢ Dan Glickman, a Wichita Democrat, defeated U.S. Rep. Garner Shriver, R-Wichita, in 1976.
¢ Dr. Bill Roy, a Topeka Democrat, defeated U.S. Rep. Chester Mize, R-Atchison, in 1970.
In Douglas County, Boyda received 9,379 votes to Ryun's 5,850.
But it was Shawnee County voters who made a big difference in the race.
In Shawnee County in 2004, Ryun bested Boyda by 5,777 votes. This year he lost the county by 7,029 votes, a swing of almost 13,000.
Comments
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The_Voice_of_Reason (anonymous) says…
Can I be the first to say WooHoo!!!! and Ding dong the the re pubs are gone!
xenophonschild (anonymous) says…
Jubilation! It would have been better had we won the Senate also, but the House, and Kansas going blue is enough for celebration.
Democrats have a lot of hard work ahead to repair the damage of twelve years of Republican incompetence, not just domestically or fiscally, but primarily internationally. When even our closest neighbors - Canada and Mexico - believe us to be more of a threat to world peace than any other single factor, it's time to re-think our approach to the world.
drewdun (anonymous) says…
""A lot of churches in this area aren't going to be very happy about this," Weeks said. "Ryun resonated with people with strong church ties. To them, Boyda's victory will be a slap in the face by the liberals and academics - a case of not sticking to the agenda we need to stick to."
What an idiot. It was normal people that voted for Nancy Boyda, not these straw men. Why the constant assertions that only Republicans are religious? The actions of the politicians they support don't back this up.
drewdun (anonymous) says…
Sorry, two more things: 1.) I like the title of this article. "Democrats dominate." I just really like the sound of that. 2.) Regardless of political views, and the conventional wisdom that the only reason Nancy Boyda won was because this was a down year for Pubs, one must admit she ran a pretty good campaign. When I was watching college football on Saturday, there were Ryun ads, but just as many Boyda ads. On Sunday, watching pro football, I saw mainly Boyda ads. And on Tuesday on the classic country station I heard more than one Boyda ad. I think she was targeting a pretty good demographic that was ripe for the picking, as they were (obviously) frustrated with the way things were going in our country. And the fact that her commercials had regular people in them, not pictures of Ryun fading to black with scary music playing in the background, helped as well, imo. All in all, a nice win for a political underdog. I just hope she sticks to her campaign promises about reducing the amount of influence money buys in our democracy.
feefifofum (anonymous) says…
Ryun ran a crappy campaign. He deserved to lose for that reason. I think analysis of the returns shows that a lot of GOP people sat this one out. Boyda out hustled him and got everybody who voted for her in 2004 out and added a few more.
You can't be complacent - allow a negative campaign to gather steam - not respond - then be accused of a negative campaign by the opponent who started out that way. It turned out that Ryun lost this one all on his own.
It will be interesting to see the "moderate" Boyda in action. I know she says "her vote is not for sale", but I think she will find there is another Nancy that will think otherwise.
dannylandulf (anonymous) says…
I don't think the reason why the dems took over so much of the country is because the majority of the country realized that the far right had taken over the party...look at all the results, centrist republicans held on while all the evangelicals (aka Ryun) were outed. Similarly, campaigns were republicans used dirty attack ads also were outed (except most notedly in Tenn)...Boyda won because Ryun had nothing to run on because he has been nothing but a lap dog for the neocons so he had dirty campaign after dirty ad while boyda's were all positive. I'm optimistic for the future of both parties to be honest, as I think they both have finally figured out that the majority of the country isn't ultra liberal or conservative...and furthermore for the republican party realized that they need to return to true conservatism (which means butting out of legislating morality).
feefifofum (anonymous) says…
Dannylandulf - pointless to bring up all the negative ads that Boyda ran against Ryun because you can't see it that way anyway. Suffice it to say that there were many and Ryun responded with same - but way too late. Negative campaigning works - many times does not even need to be true. Ryun against the military for instance. It does not matter now. The GOP needs to find a better candidate - I have to admit.
Valkyrie_of_Reason (Kathy Getto) says…
YEE HAW!
TheSychophant (anonymous) says…
To God be the glory for the great things he has done
oscarfactor (anonymous) says…
Congrats to the Boyda campaign. Admittedly, I thought they had blown it when they initially refused to seek help and money from the DC Dems. I thought it was foolish to have one's spouse run a campaign. Again, I was proven wrong.
But I will be VERY vigilant in following up with Congresswoman-elect Boyda when it comes to that red herring of an issue she continued to harp on, the so-called "Super Corridor." Let's see how fast that disappears from her repertoire now that she's been elected.
maxtin (anonymous) says…
Centrist republican's are the one's who lost elections (excepting the final thank god downfall of ultra-right lunatics like Kathryn Harris & Jim Ryun) nationwide. Mainly because the republican's lost pretty much everywhere except the places which ARE genuinely majority far-right. What happens now is dependent on where the democrats and republican's go from here. Worst case the democrats go after the republican's rather than the needs of the country, and the republican's decide they lost because they aren't right-wing enough. Let's hope both parties see this as a correction toward the center. It's by no means a foregone conclusion that either party will be that wise.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Patriotman? right_thinker? asbestos? lunacydetector?
You guys coming out to play today? :)
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Ooops... didn't mean to leave you out, Godot...
Strontius (anonymous) says…
Maxtin, the Democrats ARE the center. There is no left-wing political party in the United States, as the Democratic party is a coalition of groups that span centre-right to centre-left. If you want to vote moderate, then you vote democract.
Americans need to take a long hard look at other political systems and understand that a few government programs are not indicative of extremist leanings by any stretch of the imagination.
DaREEKKU (anonymous) says…
The Dems could VERY well take the Senate too now! I'm seeing blue.....it's really too bad Kline alienated alot of doctors because he's going to need one to remove the deeply entrenched hoof out of his backside. Not only did he lose but by a HUGE margin. Boyda didn't run ads that were NEARLY as negative as Ryun did. Not to mention all of the negative tactics, dirty campaigning, and voter disenfranchisement that Republicans consistently tried to do/have done in the past nationwide. good riddens!
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
Well Dems, congrats on the wins. THis is how democracy works. The Republicans vacated Conservative values and went with stupid things like Gay Marriage Bans, ID/Creo in the classroom, and power at al costs.
However, are we going to be up to our whatzits in illegal aliens, and we already will have a tax inrease as those expire.
And Maxtin you are wrong, the CENTER won the election. the Republican party with 37% evangelicals, needs to understand they threw the party under the train for the sake of right wing whackos in OUR party.
Iraq policy will probably not change much. I think the terrrorist will be enboldended.
Again congrats on the wins. Pay attention to your new Conservative dems, else you will suffer the same fate.
I was happy to see Ryan and Cline loose. Very happy to see how the School Board races went in favor to non whackos.
average (anonymous) says…
I sincerely hope Pelosi can change the tone in the House. Good side of the Force, Madam Speaker...
Curb lobbyists.
Real open committee meetings, not pro forma ones. Not ones where the minority party is locked out of the unmarked room and the majority party is inside giggling.
Real bipartisan hearings, not turning off the lights and microphones and storming out while the minority is still debating.
Civil tongues.
Floor votes.
No "500 page omnibus bill" unavailable for review until 10 minutes before the final vote.
maxtin (anonymous) says…
1. Reconciliation between the parties in Iraq or we're gone. If they don't reconcile there's no winning anyway.
2. If you make less than $200,000.00 a year you've been better off under the democrats.
3. Hey the FBI and CIA can act on the ACTUAL intelligence they're collecting now... that's terrible news!
4. Worst case is the parties trying to solidify their 'bases'. Haven't we had enough of divisive partisan politics?
maxtin (anonymous) says…
asbestos i agree that the CENTER vote was the deciding factor in the election. My point was that, unfortunately the Republican party (because of where they were vulnerable) has shed more moderates than right-wingers... I was trying to express that that may well mean problems for a correction to the center for Republicans in Washington.
average (anonymous) says…
Oh, and please start with some of the smaller but critical investigations (why did Maher Arar, Canadian citizen, Canadian passport, get sent to Syria for torture, for instance), not with trying to impeach W or remove Rumsfeld.
opinion (anonymous) says…
Congrats to the Democrats. Although I would have liked the results to turn out differently, I must admit I was impressed with the campaigning skills of many of the Dems. I am one that appreciates a strategy well executed and that's what the Dems did. Mrs. Sebelius' ads were world class polished and Boyda's were grass roots likeable. Both worked very well.
juliopac (anonymous) says…
Good Morning, America! finally, the American people have wised up. Time for some accountability and getting back to what really matters to the average joe...the economy, education, health care. Forget this war...what a sham. Get the hell out of Iraq, and let's start putting america first.
Forget also these ridiculous hot button issues like gay marriage, abortion, guns. Time for democrats to start deciding what's important. And time for the blending of religion and politics to cease and desist. We've had enough, already!
The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says…
WATB day is starting off fantastic.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Pilgrim volunteers to be the first fish floppin' 'round in the barrel this morning...
"1) Re Iraq: Demorats are like the dog chasing and catching the pickup truck. "Oh crap. Now what do I do with it?" They have no plan."
I can think of several things that "your side" never considered, Pilgrim.
#1--capture osama bin laden
#2--fight a war, stop "building nations"
#3--Fire the most incompetent Secretary of Defense seen in generations
"2) Grab your wallet."
Guess what, "old trash can?" I grab my wallet every day for my 19-month-old daughter. In addition to caring for her current wants and needs, I also like to think about the future. For this discussion, that means the trillions of dollars in debt folks like you, Pilgrim, will gladly hang around the necks of our children and grandchildren.
People like you only care about three people: "Me, Myself and I"
"3) Grab a gun. The defense of you and your family is now in your hands."
... mainly because, after billions of dollars pumped into "Homeland Security," our borders are still porous, our corporations are *encouraged* to hire illegal aliens by your incompetence, Pilgrim... and less than 1% of all overseas import freight is inspected.
"4) President Bush, warm up that veto pen."
Of course he will. Your middle name is "Gridlock."
See you in the funny papers, wastoid...
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
juliopac (anonymous) says…
Pilgrim,
Enough with the communist implications, okay? What you're doing is attempting to label moderate America, the ones who voted yesterday, as communist sympathizers. This tactic is not only worn out, but juvenile and frankly, stupid.
i suggest you sit back and think about the new direction your fellow Americans have decided this country needs to take. Perhaps you might find something good will come from this change. How 'bout approaching this new direction with an open mind, rather than sulking and insulting?
I mean, seriously, why are you so allied with the party that has wedged this country straight into the crack between the rock and the hard place?
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
"Agenda for Democrats:
1) Investigate Bush administration for war crimes, torture, and violations of Geneva Conventions
2) Investigate Bush administration for violation of Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act
3) Investigate Bush administration for energy policy dictated by Big Oil
4) Investigate Bush administration for lying about WMDs and reasons for going to war in Iraq, including uranium lie, nuclear bomb development lie, chemical weapon labs lie.
5) Investigate Bush administration for 9-11 cover-up, including why not one single person was held responsible for the failure of 9-11 that occurred on Bush's watch
6) Investigate Bush for detention of American citizens without habeus corpus, as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution - think Jose Padilla."
You do this and the center will leave your party just like it left the Republican party. The country cannot stand for 2 years of investigations. If that is your *plan* then you will not hold the house long.
You had better learn form the republicans mistakes
cutny (anonymous) says…
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeett
BrianR (anonymous) says…
Pilgrim,
Repeating tired old lies, why? Do you feel better now?
The Bush crime family is bankrupting the republic and selling us out to China and the Repug plan to get out of debt is what?
cutny (anonymous) says…
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
bookoff (anonymous) says…
Hey where did all the ultra conservative cavemen types go? Probably playing with their gi joes muttering under their breath "terrorism........family values......praise jesus.....grunt......liberals destroying my country.....arrrghhghgghghghghghghhghgh!". Then they make a poo in their pants.
Kristen (anonymous) says…
So...this is what it feels like: it's morning in America at last!
nekansan (anonymous) says…
I think the republicans know they are out of touch on values, they just thought people would continue to respond to the anti terror rhetoric. Phil Kline's loss had nothing to do with Iraq, and I believe that despite the surveys and such Iraq was only a portion of why the Dems fared so well. Nearly every "conservative" ballot initiative nationwide failed. No Gay Marriage ban, stem cell research, no highly restrictive abortion ban. I listened to the RNC chairman give an interview and his talking points had totally changed for a week ago. Not one mention of social issues like abortion, gay marriage and the like. Just issues like smaller government & lower taxes. I think if the republicans had been on this message for the last 6 years things yesterday would have been totally different. These issues have a much broader appeal than wading in to the muck of the ethical and religious debates that surround abortion and gay rights. People care about these issues and the majority believe they are a decided question. Maybe this will finally get the political debate focused on policy issues and not moral ones.
gphawk89 (anonymous) says…
Congratulations, America, on taking your first few steps down a slippery slope to the depths of Hell.
LePenseur (anonymous) says…
I think Dr. McCoy said it best in one of the original Star Trek episodes: "Spock, I've found that evil usually triumphs, unless good is very, very careful."
janeb (anonymous) says…
This is as true today as it was then
mr. president and gentlemen of the convention: If we could first know where we are, and whither we are tending, we could better judge what to do, and how to do it. We are now far into the fifty year since a policy was initiated with the avowed object and confident promise of putting and end to slavery agitation. Under the operation of that policy, that agitation has not only not ceased, but has constantly augmented. In my opinion, it will not cease until a crises shall have been reached and passed. "A house divided against itself cannot stand." I believe this government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved -- I do not expect the house to fall -- but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing, or all the other. Either the opponents of slavery will arrest the further spread of it, and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction; or its advocates will push it forward till it shall become alike lawful in all the States, old as well as new, North as well as South.
In it's full form
http://www.nationalcenter.org/HouseDi...
Thanks Abe!
Tychoman (anonymous) says…
Thinker, Pilgrim, once again you DON'T pay any attention to the news: The Democratic seats that were taken all across the country were taken by moderate Democrats, even 'conservative' Democrats. Enough with the Communist, far-left, "hater" crap.
"You had better learn form the republicans mistakes."
You're right, Asbestos, and there are SO many of them.
Tychoman (anonymous) says…
gphawk89: We took those steps back in 1994 when the GOP first took control of Congress. Loon.
alm77 (anonymous) says…
Back to Ryun. "To God be the glory for the great things he has done," she said, smiling. "We are people of faith."
I don't doubt that he has values. What I doubt is that he would have been better than Boyda.
His personal faith has nothing to do with it, she's simply more competent.
opinion (anonymous) says…
Nekansan,
"Nearly every "conservative" ballot initiative nationwide failed. No Gay Marriage ban, "
You might want to check your sources again on this. Additionally, several Dems that picked up seats in traditional Repub held areas are as socially conservative as they come.
Rationalanimal (anonymous) says…
Yo, the dems didn't win, the republicans lost. There's a big difference. Look at the democrat local candidates who won, Boo-yah, Van Morrison, Seagull, McDisaster. The first 2 were republicans to begin with, so at most they are moderate democrats/republicans (there's really no difference), the last 2 had to sell themselves as "independents" to get elected, McDisaster barely made it even at that. When you look at the demographics around the country, the dems who won are overwhelmingly faith based moderate/independent individuals.
Sorry to deflate the rabid socialist frothing on here that (to quote a really poor philosopher) "god is dead". To say this election is a referendum rejecting religion is not supported by the demographic of candidates just elected. So, please keep up this hate christians, hate religion mantra for the next 2 years until it reaches a point of frenzy in the national democrat party. The U.S.A. is overwhelmingly christian and very faith based. This is still the greatest country in the history of the world, and it is such because of judeo-christian values.
Ok, go back to frothing, wailing, and disparaging christianity. I bet don_quixote especially has some good names for christians, jews, blacks, and women from the 1950's.
lawrencephilosopher (anonymous) says…
Are the majority of you writting here really that naive or are you that stupid?
They are all crooks! Wake up
lawrencephilosopher (anonymous) says…
writing....spelling.....sorry
staff04 (anonymous) says…
I would just like to offer a heartfelt thanks to the likes of Patriotman, Conservativeman, right_thinker, Arminius (and all his incarnations), Pilgrim, and any other far-right trolls I may have overlooked.
It was your diligent work here on these boards that cemented the victories for Boyda, Morrison and Sebelius. Your skill in alienating moderates was unprecedented, and you clearly succeeded. Thanks again.
BigDog (anonymous) says…
I will congratulate the Democrats on their victory last night., though it was made easier by some horribly run Republican campaigns. I hope that Democrats now choose to lead and not spend the next two years investigating everything. If they choose to spend their time investigating they will be back in the minority in two years. In two years it is their record they will have to run on. It is always easier to be the hunter than the hunted, believe me the race for 2008 starts today.
Again congrats!
prairiepollyana (anonymous) says…
Just wondering how many that won were former Republicans?...Stands to reason they would be "moderate" Democrats if they were former Republicans...
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
Moderation and reasoned government won yesterday. That Kline had his hat handed to him and that Boyda won easily suggests that Kansans aren't as monolithic as thought by many, including both republicans and democrats.
I think Kansans smelled dung despite the best efforts of the GOP to cover it.
What a great electoral victory for moderates.
dannylandulf (anonymous) says…
If you are ready to leave the country simply because a different ideology might take hold right-thinker...then leave now...the country will be better off with out someone who cuts and runs the first time a vote doesn't go the way they want it.
staff04 (anonymous) says…
"I will develop, at least for now, a loose contingency plan for exiting the US."
Hmmm...I seem to remember many questioning the allegiance/patriotism of those who said they were contemplating leaving after the 2004 election. Interesting...
verity (anonymous) says…
What a great morning!
Now it's time to stop all the name calling and partisanship and bickering and work together to get our country back on track.
The two most important things in my opinion (besides trying to figure out what to do in Iraq) are:
1. Serious campaign reform so that candidates do not have to spend most of their time raising money and so corporations can't buy candidates.
2. Get rid of the electorial college and go to one person, one vote for president.
Without campaign reform the corporations and very wealthy will still be running our country.
It's a wonderful day, but the work has just begun.
rhd99 (anonymous) says…
Well, RepubliKLINES, can't buy an election, can ya? bye bye kline! Hit the road PHILL! Congratulations to all Democrats & moderate voters! We did it.
dannylandulf (anonymous) says…
I'm more worried about health care then booting the electoral college but i agree with the sentiment verity. I think it will take awhile for those on the right to get over the taste of sour grapes before they stop posting venom...I'm just starting to read deeper into the results from last night but it seems to me (as someone already said) that this was a great victory for moderates and REAL conservative values...I may have liberal values but unlike a lot of those on the right I don't spit hate at people that disagree with me (and yes, before you say it, i know some on the left are guilty of that...but for every liberal who says something hateful about the right, there are 10 from the right that say liberals are going to hell :) ). I honestly don't care which party has control as both sides have there skeletons in the closet so to speak...what i do care about is trying to form a government that isn't divisive.
verity (anonymous) says…
I agree, dannylandulf, that health care is very important, as are any number of other issues. It's just not going to happen until we come together and stop dividing ourselves, or letting ourselves be divided along liberal-conservative lines and sticking labels on everything and start being sensible and realistic and respecting each other. I don't care if something is considered liberal, moderate or conservative (not even sure what that all means or if it means anything anymore), I just want us to start doing what is sensible and ethical.
BigDog (anonymous) says…
The two most important things in my opinion (besides trying to figure out what to do in Iraq) are:
1. Serious campaign reform so that candidates do not have to spend most of their time raising money and so corporations can't buy candidates.
2. Get rid of the electorial college and go to one person, one vote for president.
Without campaign reform the corporations and very wealthy will still be running our country.
*******************************************
1) What kind of campaign reform are Democrats wanting or proposing?
I thought evil corporations and the horrible wealthy people were all republicans so isn't that issue taken care of with democrats in charge now.
2) Without the electoral college small population states don't matter in presidential elections. Is that really what Kansas and other small populations state want?
dannylandulf (anonymous) says…
On the contrary BigDog...taking away the electoral college means that every single persons vote is equal to everyone else's...so instead of writing off certain states, because of the electoral math, their campaign has to be aimed at everyone...how is that bad? If anything the electoral college is a disservice to the small states because our issues are never addressed in national campaigns because they don't need us to win.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
right_thinker, Patriotman, BigDog, and everyone who's choosing to beat down on Nancy Pelosi before she's even seen the light of "Day #1" as Speaker of the House:
1994/1995
Republican Revolution
"Contract with America"
"Family Values"
Newt Gingrich making speeches
Newt Gingrich making promises
Newt Gingrich retiring to his private hotel suite in the evening for another round of "shag-a-licious" with his mistress/future 3rd wife Calista Bisek (who, at the time, had a hairdo eerily similar to Hillary Clinton)...
Glass houses, folks. Glass houses.
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
EXks (anonymous) says…
Ok, you right-wingers can STOP bashing San Francisco and Nancy Pelosi. Most of you have never stepped foot in this city, so you have absolutely NO clue what you're yapping about. I'm not going to defend San Francisco, because I DON'T have to, its international reputation in the financial, technological, medical, and academic reputation speakes for itself!
I doubt you heard Pelosi's speech last night, but she spoke of bipartisanshp, reaching out to republicans, finding solutions to the issues that face our country and working class families, and finding a solution to a failed Iraq policy.
SIX years of right wing rule, you NEVER heard this from the other side, which is why you guys LOST the election, and IF the Dems fail and allow power and greed to corrupt them as did the Repubs, they will face the wrath of the voters in 2008!
The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says…
WATB Award for Post of The Day, thus far.
The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says…
If W got impeached (he won't by the way), then Cheney would have to die of a heart attack like 5 secs later as another VP would have already been selected.
staff04 (anonymous) says…
tob-
watb?
BigDog (anonymous) says…
Agnostick - I've said nothing about Nancy Pelosi. She now is most likely going to be Speaker of the House. I just said the pressure will now be on her and Democrats to deliver and make Americans happy or they will be only be in power for 2 years.
Its time to solve problems and no longer call names and attack Bush, the people won't see that as progress.
bankboy119 (anonymous) says…
A few things:
Dany completely agree with you that the electoral college needs to be eliminated. It makes people in some states unequal. Take for example Massachusetts, why would a Republican in Mass (of the 3 or so that are left) bother to vote? Their electoral votes are going to go to the Dems. Same for KS historically for the Democrats, why bother to vote?
EXks, your post about how Nancy wants "bipartisanship" is the same thing Republicans have been preaching. The minority needs to agree with the majority so something is done instead of nothing. The Dems have refused to cooperate. So now they will try and force the Republicans to go along with Democrat views. I, personally, hope they don't because the Dems did not go along with anything the Republicans wanted done.
My personal view is that once people start getting taxed out the arse and the income redistribution happens people will start to wise up. More government spending does not help anything. The government needs to learn to be fiscally responsible. If it did, Communist countries would be on top of the world. Also, go back to WWII when taxes were at an all time high. What actually brought the economy out of a slump? Was it the end of the war? Yes, in part. But the other part that is not talked about is the fact that the taxes that were at an all time high were lowered. Because taxes were lowered people started to invest more and take more chances. This allowed the economy to grow.
Unfortunately the Republicans in office did not do what they promised and were forced out. Hopefully in the next 2 - 8 years people will realize the disaster that the Democrats are going to bring and the Republicans will be back in office.
God Bless America
Rationalanimal (anonymous) says…
logjam, your beloved Dr. Bowman is a nut job. Among the madness he spouts, he advocates allowing Osama bin Laden to remain alive and unchecked, and the comprehensive and complete withdrawal of American military and corporate interests from the middle east. Wow, if that is the new pitch to the American people by the democratice party, 2008 won't be here soon enough.
Read for yourself this nutcase.
http://www.rawfoodinfo.com/articles/a...
bookemdano (anonymous) says…
Last night we showed the world that as of 2006 there's nothing the matter with Kansas.
Jamesaust (anonymous) says…
Well, I didn't think the ol' girl had it in her.
But it is fascinating to reflect on how rapidly Ryun melted down in the end.
The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says…
Staff - Get on one of those inet slang dictionairy deals. Written out, WATB has historically resulted in "This Comment Removed By Site Staff."
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
WATB:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define...
Perfect description for right_thinker, btw.
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
spacystaci8 (anonymous) says…
Congrats to the Dems! Even though I am not one, I am glad to see that they are at least moderates and not too far to the left. Lets just hope they can do half the wonderful things they speak of. In reality, these results were Gods will, if they weren't they wouldn't have happened. So its time for us to move on, quit the endless name-calling, and do the happy dance because the campaign ads are gone!
spacystaci8 (anonymous) says…
For your side winning a lot of you are sure doing a lot of name calling. You won quit being so sour!!
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Haven't *really* been reading today's threads, have you spacystaci8?
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
opinion (anonymous) says…
Holygrailale,
"The performance of the Bush Administration and the corrupt Republicans in Congress left an extremely low bar to clear.
It's the reason why the Republicans lost in this midterm."
Couldn't agree with you more.
Kodiac (anonymous) says…
Rational Animal,
Do you ever read those links you give to support your posts? I don't think you do. I read this whole link and I think Dr. Bowman is one sane dude. I mean I read the first 2 lines of this article that gives you a resume on this guy and it says....
"Dr. Robert M. Bowman was the Star Wars program director under presidents Ford and Carter and flew 101 combat missions in Vietnam. His Ph.D. is in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering from Caltech. He is President of the Institute for Space and Security Studies and Presiding Archbishop of the United Catholic Church. "
A nutcase? Ok RA when you say nutcase I thinking um maybe Timothy McVeigh or Manson or some serial killer out of his freaking mind. I think Dr. Bowman is at least on the right track and has a good understanding of what is actually happening. I think you need to go reread this post RA before you start applying your false labels and spouting off your ignornace about what is actually being said.
don_burgess (anonymous) says…
:)
Rational animal -
How are you? I'm mean really, man... How ARE you? Are you OK? I wanted to check in with you.
I cant help but feel a little sorry for you and your republican buddies and all your right wing christian supporters. You must be mopping the floor with your tears today. Damn shame.
Maybe republicans lost control of the house because christians didn't pray hard enough. This is what I would've tried:
"Dear Jesus... Please, PLEASE , please help jimmy ryun and dubya keep this country at war and in the dark ages for as long as the stars shine in your glorious heaven. Amen"
I bet that wouldve worked.
Also - man, I don't know where you get the impression that I have something against women, and minorities but you've obviously read something that made you think that way. I'd like to see it. (You re probably thinking that I'm upset by this and you are "pushing my buttons" so you will continue to insist that I am a racist. Go ahead- call me what you will. I guess you need a leg to stand on.)
One last thing - This country is great for many reasons - very least of all judeo-christian values. What do you think those are by the way? We are curious.
GOPConservative (anonymous) says…
Why does Dave Ranney call Ryun a "devout Christian," but does not use that term for other politicians who belong to mainstream churches.
Does talking in tongues, believing the earth was created in six days and taking tainted money from convicted lobbyist, Jack Abramoff, make one more devout that those who are dedicated members of mainstream churches?
Does belonging to an extremist church make one more devout than being a Presbyterian, Congregationalist, Unitarian, Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopal, etc.?
Would Dave Ranney describe Fred Phelps as a "devout Christian?" After all, Fred and Jim share many common beliefs.
Jamesaust (anonymous) says…
A few things appear more clearly in retrospect here:
1. Bush's visit hurt Ryun. It reminded voters exactly how much Ryun could not separate himself from the larger Party. I almost expected Bush to put his foot in his mouth with some sort of comment like: 'We wouldn't be doing the marvelous job were are in Iraq without the vote of Jim Ryun.' [Note to Sen. Roberts - who is up for re-election in 2008: voters expect the occasional hard question and demand for accountability to triumph over partisan loyalty, especially when lives are at stake.]
2. Splitting Lawrence between the 2nd and 3rd Districts, while intended to dilute Democrat votes, actually provided a critical mass in both Districts that allowed Democrat candidates to attract money and attention from swing-voters. [Note: after the next census, JoCo will have enough people to go it alone and Douglas Co. will be moved entirely into the 2nd District, and to make up for a continuing depopulation of rural Kansas and probably the loss of one more Congressional seat.]
3. Boyda will need to follow Moore's lead in picking issues to differentiate herself from the Dem's leadership, which is too far to the left for voters in her District. Given the geography of her District, those will likely be military issues.
4. Boyda's election was not the result of an 'anti-incumbant' tide. This was purely an anti-GOP tide. Tides eventually run back the other way. Boyda, like Moore, has a chance if she can cement herself in the District and manage to win her first challenge in 2008. [Note to Nancy: your margin of victory comes from a typical GOP voter who made an exception for you, not a Democrat convert - don't forget that.]
5. On-your-sleave religiosity and holier-than-thou bigotry seem to have outlived their glory days. Real Christian love, humility and service continue to shine on through. [Note to Sammy-B: the question you need to answer is not whether you can win a national race but rather whether you can again win a Kansas one. Hmmm...Brownback v. Sebelius, 2010?]
spacystaci8 (anonymous) says…
it was made in 8 days, pal. Oh Fred is devout alright, devoutly insane. Do you guys think any of his followers put him in as a write in?
I am still proud to be an American and would never leave, though Canada's nationwide health coverage sounds a little good.
I do believe this country was founded on Christian values, where did you guys hear differently? I did go to school in Kansas where I learned that, am I wrong?
rhd99 (anonymous) says…
bye bye bob corkins! Get lost creep!
hockmano (anonymous) says…
YES! It's about time for CHANGE!
beatrice (anonymous) says…
To all who wish the Dems and the country well, I say thank you. It would be best to move forward and hope and pray for positive things to stem from this election. If you choose to do the opposite and wish they fail, then clearly you don't love your country as much as you do your party.
average (anonymous) says…
Jamesaust -
Boyda will indeed have to provide for the military. Almost every voter tied to Riley and Lvn will be different in two years, and it takes action to overcome the Republican tendancies in military families.
After the next census, all of DG will be out of Moore's territory, but I don't think Kansas will go to three seats. There are still 70 less "priority" seats below the Kansas fourth.
samsnewplace (anonymous) says…
YES, long over-due...........
staff04 (anonymous) says…
CNN is reporting right now that Rumsfeld has resigned.
staff04 (anonymous) says…
Not a joke.
The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says…
Staff... speaking of a WATB.
average (anonymous) says…
Rumsfeld out? Two days too late is better than never.
This could play interestingly. Putative SecDef Powell and McCain, lever of power in a 50/50 Senate, have one year to rehabilitate their seriously damaged credibility as independents and sweep '08.
average (anonymous) says…
Alright, so a little too quick on proposing Powell (though Gates' confirmation isn't sure yet). But, McCain does have a lot of power the next two years.
BigDog (anonymous) says…
Posted by rhd99
bye bye bob corkins! Get lost creep!
***************************************
Wow! good thing only conservatives call names. Please tell me exactly what Bob Corkins has done wrong? I don't pay close attention to his stuff close enough I guess. If he is doing his job..... you want him fired because he doesn't agree with you???
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
CNN Breaking News: Rumsfeld stepping down...
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
sorry staff, I didn't scroll back far enough
Jamesaust (anonymous) says…
Yes, indeed. One half of the Cheney/Rumsfeld cabal that seized the U.S. government in a (not entirely) bloodless coup in late 2001 has been decapitated. Now, the VP should be ordered to keep his fingers out and start doing VP things like attending state funerals (starting with his own).
Of course, (Rovian) Machiavellian counter-stroke: Bush appoints Joe Lieberman (who was easily re-elected just as I predicted) as Defense Secretary and the GOP Governor of Connecticut appoints a Republican successor, thus preserving a GOP Senate majority!
xenophonschild (anonymous) says…
Not that any of us should have expected the local contingent of conservative troglodytes to be gracious in defeat, but their sour reception of reality only underscores what they are and have been - losers.
Perhaps they should - like Jim Ryun's wife - pray to their dead Galilean for guidance.
And what about Howard Dean? His selection of dozens of war veterans to run for Congress pretty much muzzled the traditional Republican charge of being soft on security - something one of the local trogs in particular should recognize and accept. Nobody much listens to the angry left of the Democratic party any more - another reality the local trogs never saw or accepted. Moderation is the key in all things, especially in national politics.
Hillary Clinton and Bill Richardson in '08. Down with Republicans forever.
Calliope877 (anonymous) says…
"They certainly did not believe that Jesus was their savior, as is a requirement of Christian ideology. However, it is not unreasonable that you thought as much staci, because many people generalize the fact that "In God We Trust" is on our money to mean the Judeo-Christian God, when that is not, in fact, the case."
-Logicsound04
Hi.:) I agree with what you said, but I'm curious as to what "In God We Trust" really means? I used to know it, but I forgot. Could you refresh my memory please?
p.s. whoohoo for the Democrats!!!! :):)
jonas (anonymous) says…
xeno: If you recall (or were even here) for the hooplah surrounding the 2004 elections, you would notice that the only real change has been the identities of those doing the whining and doomsaying, and those doing the poking and celebrating. Funny how little things change.
I'm going to show you some irony.
"Moderation is the key in all things,. . (snip). . Down with Republicans forever."
Heh.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
BigDog, maybe you've been out of touch the past couple of years. Here's the Reader's Digest version:
Corkins was hired two years ago as the new education commissioner for Kansas... railroaded by the then-conservative-controlled KBOE. Corkins was hired primarily for his vocal support of intelligent design; his background, career, etc. contains *no experience in education whatsoever*. Not K-12, not higher education, curriculum, textbooks. Nada.
This is evidenced by his action this past spring: Corkins hired two "assistants": one, a long-time staff member of the Kansas Department of Education, with many years of experience in K-12 education; the other, an administration official from Kansas City who had been mysteriously "let go" from his job, with no explanation whatsoever from the school board that accepted his "resignation."
My wife, a national board-certified middle school teacher, has attended a couple of conferences where Corkins was asked to be a guest speaker. Once back home, she reported that the audience of teachers generally snickered at the man, especially the obvious lack of knowledge he has concerning education.
Thanks to the extremists on the KBOE, we have an inexperienced education commissioner who requires the assistance of two other people to show him how to do his job; or, do the job for him outright. We're paying three people to do the job of one. How does that compare to traditional conservative values of fiscal responsibility and "small government," BigDog?
Now that some of the extremists on the KBOE have been replaced with the wisdom and prudence of more moderate members... I think we can expect a resignation from Corkins by May 2007.
I have several links and articles for you to read, if you like... email or PM me if interested.
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Jamesaust (anonymous) says…
No, its to be Robert Gates for SecDef -- Wichita native and former Chancellor of Texas A&M, and DCI under Bush the Elder.
Interestingly, Gates is on the record advocating that we talk directly with Iran.
Unfortunately, Gates doesn't have a reputation of speaking truth to power but was rather the perfect example of meteoric careerism in the intelligence community that failed us such much in the last decade.
Has Gates reached his apogee and now is ready to say "No, Mr. President"?
Jamesaust (anonymous) says…
I so miss my friend Arminius.
Yesterday marked the complete Dixiecratization - or is that Dixiecanization - of the Republican Party. Quite literally, those places that once cheered the death of Honest Abe now are bastions of GOP strength. What was once the core of Republicanism - the Midwest and Northeast - has turned an increasingly vivid shade of blue.
How will the GOP elect a President in 2008 if they can't count on places like New Hampshire, Ohio, Missouri, Montana, or Arizona? (Unless they muzzle Dobson and run with McCain, Giuliani, or such?)
MyName (anonymous) says…
Rumsfeld is gone! Wow, and he wasn't even up for election! This is good news for the troops (assuming they can find someone without all of the baggage Rumsfeld is carrying).
don_burgess (anonymous) says…
right thinker - you arent that bad, afterall. At least you are able to consider the whole picute.
I take back my negative words against you. Even though you are republican (Everyone has faluts) you are still able to rationalize and have an open mind.
I say republicans have messed up this country long enough - let dems do it for a while...
The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says…
R_T keeps racking up WATB Awards today.
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
Now that Ryun and Kline are out of jobs, they can get a couple of cockroach costumes and dance around in front of Governor Sebelius' press conferences.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Is it just me, or has ljworld.com been locking up intermittently today?
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
sionil, remember that "writing" is only half the job--most of us write/post in reaction to something we'd just *read*...
tony88 (anonymous) says…
sionil, you've read all 4,000+ of HGA's posts to know that 75%+ are in the same vein as his response to karma? Looks like you've got a little obsession of your own going on here.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
sionil, isn't it a bit presumptuous of you to roll in here with only three posts under your belt, and appoint yourself "Forum Cop?"
Or... "Forum Attorney General?"
Curious about our medical records? :p~~~~~~~~~~~
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Kodiac (anonymous) says…
sionil,
You are wasting my time....
beatrice (anonymous) says…
Wow. The news today just keeps getting better and better. Farewell Rumy and neo-cons, hello liberals, moderates and common sense. Here in Arizona, we even voted down a proposition to put a ban on gay marriages in the state's constitution -- the first in the country to vote down such a proposition. Not bad for a "red" state. (Or is it just Reps being their old selves and insisting that government stay the heck out of people's private lives? Either way, common sense wins out.)
Katara (anonymous) says…
What is that I smell? Oh yes, hope! It has been so long to have that smell in this country.
Rumsfield's gone and it looks like Gates is stepping in. This should be interesting.
Now, time to get to work and fix a bunch of stuff. Yes, Bush should be investigated but I don't think it is priority. Get all the other things in order first.
Katara (anonymous) says…
Sionil,
It is indeed a beautiful day with lovely temperatures. It would do you wonders to get some fresh air. Your focus on how many posts any poster makes on here indicates that you need some.
The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says…
Arminus is back.
crazyks (anonymous) says…
So it seems that Bush's visits with Ryun and Talent didn't help them out a bit. In fact, it probably hurt them.
I also find it interesting that Rumsfeld resigned today, after they found out the results of the elections...
Katara (anonymous) says…
Wow, HGA. You sure do generate a lot of attention 'round these parts. Sionil just wasted 30 minutes talking about you using a formula of 5 minutes to write each post x 6 posts.
Why, I just wasted 5 minutes posting about you too!
I suspect there are a couple of mancrushes on you. Patriotman? Right_thinker?
You must find HGA to be absolutely irresistable with the amount of time you spend posting about HGA. I bet you find HGA simply dreamy! Tell me, do you have "I heart HGA" written all over your notebooks?
Just wondering.
Katara (anonymous) says…
Arminus is back.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do you think Arminius is gay, TOB? Sionil clearly referred to his/her husband & kids.
Of course, if that is the case, I would expect him to support gay marriage rights.
BOE (anonymous) says…
Best line :
"This isn't an election, it's an intervention."
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
tonight on "the factor"...
The Lawrence-Journal World's online forums is about to get a moral and ethical "roto-rooter!" We'll hear from the new "top cop" there, who's saving babies, freeing oppressed pit bulls, and laying waste to stinkin' liberals in a five-county area!
spacystaci8 (anonymous) says…
Wow I can see this thread has went to Hades in a handbasket. It was actually interesting this morning
drewdun (anonymous) says…
The wingers just can't grasp that they and their insane policies were soundly rejected yesterday. How pathetic.
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
Posted by logrithmic (anonymous) on November 8, 2006 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Agenda for Democrats:
1) Investigate Bush....
I disagree with you. The LAST thing that the Democrats need to do is go to Washington with vindictiveness on their minds. The right-wingers on this board are right---the Dems have to produce. Granted, Georgie has the veto pen, but watching him use it will only demonstrate more clearly what a jackass he really is.
Dubya is a lame duck. He's lost all of his "political capital" that he bragged so much about after the '04 election. This will give historians and the American people plenty of time to ponder what a screw-up he really is. Watching him rot in the Oval Office for the next 2 years is a far worse punichment for his incompetency than impeachment ever could be.
KsTwister (anonymous) says…
Like the house of cards they became:
"San Francisco was one of two Bay Area cities in which voters could call for Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney to be impeached. Neither San Francisco voters nor their counterparts in Berkeley passed up the chance -- San Francisco's Prop. J won, 59 percent to 41 percent, while in Berkeley, Measure H easily won with nearly 70 percent of the vote."
The people are making the choices not Congress. If GW is that lame maybe he should go.
Tychoman (anonymous) says…
Soooooooo moderation is gaining ground in Kansas...what ever am I going to do with my time now? It seems the trolls are either changing their tune or are missing altogether. Golly gee.
staff04 (anonymous) says…
sionil-
I was staying out of it, but your obvious obsession with HGA and your glaring resemblance to a former poster who was also obsessed with HGA (you threw the 'ad hominem' in there a little too early, Kev) lead me to believe that you are, in fact, a reincarnation of a thrice (?) banned poster...
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
Posted by logrithmic (anonymous) on November 8, 2006 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Investigations of Bush's lies leading up to the war, Bush's lies during 9-11 and to the commission, Bush's illegal eavesdropping on American citizens, Bush's denial of habeus corpus to American citizens, Bush graft regarding no-contract bids to Haliburton, etc.
These will all be on the agenda. Screw the idea that impeachment doesn't count.
Again, I disagree with you. The American people are in no mood for another impeachment. The Republicans wasted 2 years going after Clinton, with nothing to show for it. This was just the opening act of their inability to "lead" the country. It got worse from there.
The Dems have a short window of opportunity to exert some leadership. With Dubya holding the veto pen, noting substantiative is going to come out of Congress. But, a good showing with the tools that they've been handed will go a long way toward showing the American people that they, in fact, can trust those who they sent to represent them.
Others above have stated the obvious: If the Dems do nothing but "investigate", they'll be back in the minority on '08.
Katara (anonymous) says…
sionil,
Why are you here?
You are much more focused on engaging Logicsound04 in a discussion about HGA. Perhaps its time to take it offline?
I don't think revenge or vindictiveness is an appropriate foot for the Democrats to start off on. America needs to start rebuilding all the damage we've done to the relationships with our Allies.
Democrats need to focus on getting us out of the cluster going on in Iraq.
Finally, Democrats need to reach a hand across the aisle to the Republicans so that they can work together for us.
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
Will all of you children who insist on calling each other names and pointing fingers at each other over who called someone a moron first please take yourselves and your immature posts to another playground? PLEASE?
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
Posted by right_thinker (anonymous) on November 8, 2006 at 4:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Surely, you can see they will exploit the various weaknesses encompassing a broad spectrum that they have identified with a new Democratic Party plan and will chip away at our nation in ways like you've never seen.
-------------------
Care to be a bit more specific?
DownHomeDude (anonymous) says…
today is a very important day for america!!!
rumsfield has resigned!!!
the democrats are sweeping the federal and state election!!!
today i feel proud to be and amercan!!!
a feeling that i haven't felt in a long time!!!
power to the people!!!
--dude
ksmoderate (anonymous) says…
Sionil, I'll bite on the civil and mature debate.
You stated that logrithmic's impeachment charges are false. How did you come to that decision?
Valkyrie_of_Reason (Kathy Getto) says…
I'm trying to figure the meaning of our new poster here, sionil. Now there is a novelist with that name, I believe, possibly Fillipino, hmmmm what could it mean, what could it mean?
to cool:
impeach bush & cheney both.
they are war for profiteers.
they 'work' for profit of KBR/Halliburton not 'usa'.
they are war criminals!
To Patriotman: I am becoming quite jealous of all the attention you are giving to HGA. Back off, will'ya? You are embarassing yourself.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
"There appears to be a pattern: Those who appear to be more liberal seem to be extremely angry and bitter."
I would say that you have a very (intentionally?) skewed sample.
Kodiac (anonymous) says…
Hey sionil,
Ok what do you want to talk about? I am joining your call what shall we discuss? I think Bush's policies have been disasterous for our country and I'm not sure if we can survive another 2 years of him and his cronies. I have an idea, why don't you start a "impeachmentnow" website so that we can build support to get rid of this cancer and joke of a president.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
paladin (anonymous) says…
rt-You sound as paranoid as some life-long dope smokers I have known. Take a BIG step back and try to gain some perspective. We all are not all traitors or allied with terrorists or sympathetic to them in any way. We are American patriots in the finest sense. Seeing wrong and trying to make it right, by our inherent right of access to the democratic process. There are very fine counselors out there; try the Yellow Pages. I'm sure you can find the help that you seemingly, desperately need.
jonas (anonymous) says…
Pilgrim: That is, really, pretty stupid. Saying such a thing invites nothing but further comparisons of, say, Bush to Hitler, or Rove to Beelzebub. Obviously that's the sort of conversation that you want, but the question is "why?"
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
Sionil and holygrail,
Please go somewhere else to hash out your hate for each other. That goes for the rest of you who have nothing useful to contribute to this message board as well.
Katara (anonymous) says…
Hmmmm. Out of 14 posts total, sionil, only 2 have not been about HGA.
I believe I'm correct on the mancrush you have. I've heard infatuation can consume a person. I never thought I'd actually witness it.
Whenever you are ready to discuss the issues more than a perfunctionary post of a press release from Halliburton cheering itself on & giving itself a big pat on the back, I guess I'll make an attempt to take you seriously.
Back later, school conferences...
Kodiac (anonymous) says…
"Kellogg Brown & Root is in Iraq. " --Sionil
Uh Kevin you might want to check out that home base KBR has in Houston. In fact Mr George Brown himself has his namesake on Houston's converntion center. There is no distortion here Kev, KBR is listed as a subsidiary of Halliburton. This is a fact and can be verified. Halliburton has sold 20% of KBR but still owns 80% of this company.
SpeedRacer (anonymous) says…
For the first time in a long time, I am truly proud to call myself a Kansan. Kansas took a giant step into the mainstream yesterday and showed the bible bangers and far right that this state cannot be taken for granted, and that we are more than just the farm state that Bush thinks we are.
Mkh (anonymous) says…
"My personal view is that once people start getting taxed out the arse and the income redistribution happens people will start to wise up. More government spending does not help anything. The government needs to learn to be fiscally responsible"
Bankboy this Republican propaganda with no factual base to it. How does not renewing the Bush tax cuts create a redistribution of wealth? Democrats are not going to re-tax the already burdened middle class or the lower class. They are going to put an end to the unmoral tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans and huge multi-national corporations that are shipping average
Americans' jobs overseas. How do you honestly think the Bush Tax cut helps You or any other average American? Are you the President of a large bank, or just a mouthpiece for conservative attacks on the middle class?
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
Doesn't the sky look bluer, the air smell sweeter? To bear witness to the downfall of deceitful, corrupt, fundamentalist christian ideologues has just been invigorating.
Deep in the heart of red, red Kansas, the divisive political strategy of the religious right begins to crumble.
EXks (anonymous) says…
Extremists won't be satisfied until they drive all the moderates from the Republican party.
Extremist addicts will cause the Republican party to hit rock bottom costing it more and more elections, as was evidenced yesterday.
It took the Dems 30 years to finally realize this and they might just now be in recovery mode.
Why don't you extremists form your own Jihad party and see how many votes you get?
jonas (anonymous) says…
Patriotman: Ted Kennedy proposes a toast. You know, it was funny the first time this schedule was posted, even if its totally rediculous. Second time, its just stale. You should find some new material.
beatrice (anonymous) says…
I propose a toast: To our Republican Friends -- May they rest in peace.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
hottruckinmama (anonymous) says…
well holy crap granny. why don't you just tell us how you really think. daaaaamn.
BrianR (anonymous) says…
Depends? Good analogy.
This election made it easy to identify the real bed-wetting-right. Stop posting, you're embarrassing yourselves.
Katara (anonymous) says…
sionil,
Because I know you love Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-...
"He was court martialled but acquitted in 1816. However, he was placed in retirement and never served again, although he was appointed as an honorary Vice-Admiral (vice-amiral) in 1825."
Is that how your military career ended?
Let's be frank here. You came here with an agenda to harass one of the posters here. You are not here to foster a community forum nor a civil discussion. You came here just like Patriotman. SOSDD.
Maybe I'm making a big assumption on how other posters feel about you but doesn't seem positive.
Eventually your posts will go on about Clinton being the root of all evil. You will call people "morons", "idiots", "squirt", etc. You will post the same old tired links that you have posted here a million times before.
I don't understand your obsession with LJW online or your obsession with HGA. In both cases, you were made to feel foolish and so you have a vendetta against the ones who hurt your feelings.
That is not healthy. It is not healthy for you to allow it to consume your life as it apparently has. For the sake of your mental health, please talk to someone about this unhealthy focus.
You make comments about HGA's family (which is creepy in its own way) and the time HGA spends posting. First, what business is it of yours how HGA chooses to spend his/her time?
Second, if you want to make a point of how much time one spends on the LJW, take a look @ yourself.
You have posted 18 times today already since noon-ish. Let's project that to be as long as HGA has been posting here.
9mos. X 30 days/mo (for the sake of easy math) = 270 days x 18 post/day (and you've only posted for 6 hrs!) = 4860 posts.
And you are concerned about how much time HGA spends posting on the LJW?
No one is fooled by your appearance as a "new" and "wet behind the ears" poster.
You should take your own advice.
"Go spend some time with your wife and kids. You'll wake up some time in 30 years and regret that you spent all your time online insulting and bullying others."
hottruckinmama (anonymous) says…
right_thinker are you like in shock or something? you seem to be repeating that same thing a lot. sorry for the loss dude. well a little bit anyway.
Katara (anonymous) says…
Posted by SpeedRacer (anonymous) on November 8, 2006 at 6:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
For the first time in a long time, I am truly proud to call myself a Kansan. Kansas took a giant step into the mainstream yesterday and showed the bible bangers and far right that this state cannot be taken for granted, and that we are more than just the farm state that Bush thinks we are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excellent post, SpeedRacer. We can now stop being the laughingstock of the USA. We can feel pride in being from Kansas again. It is a glorious feeling.
hottruckinmama (anonymous) says…
you had me worried there for a minute rightthinker. i bet it'll be okay. this old world is gonna keep right on spinnin'.
Katara (anonymous) says…
And Sionil just proves my point.
As one human being to another, please find someone (professional) to talk your unhealthy feelings out.
I don't think this is an issue of the proper medication for you. I think you really just need some talk therapy to help you get through these feelings of anger and shame that you direct at HGA (and subject the rest of us to).
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
Oy!
There is some real vile being posted here today. I wish that the "moderators" of this LJW forum will exercise some moderation and keep the discussion even loosely on track. If they can't, perhaps they should re-visit their policies about what is allowed and what isn't.
The vile on this thread alone is sickening.
Am I alone in feeling this way?
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
"No substance, just a couple catchy phrases.....it works!"
----------
RT is right:
"Morning in America" --- Ronny Ray-Gun
"I'm a compassionate conservative" --- Dubya
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
Sionil writes:
The record shows that holygrailale directed a post at me before I directed a post at him.
----------------
Na, nya, nya, nya-nya, nya.
Grow up already.
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
R_T,
I tend to disagree with you on most everything that you post, and I sometimes take offense to the tone of the conversations in which you participate. I probably have been guilty of such misdemeanors as well. We disagree.
But criminy!
Things have gotten a bit out of hand, don't you think?
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
Posted by sionil (anonymous) on November 8, 2006 at 8:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
laughingatallofu:
I guess your vile is all right to post here.
For the life of me, I can't understand why you liberals are so hateful and bitter today.
--------------------------
Oh, for crying out loud, Sionil, go outside and take a breath of fresh air!
Sionil, I have a question:
What, of substance, would you like to discuss on this tread?
Mkh (anonymous) says…
Right Thinker, your attempt at parody regarding Democratic slogans only further adds to your obvious abundunce of ignorance. After all, you've been swallowing spoon fulls of "Stay the course", "compassionate conservatism", and "uniter not a divider" for years.
oldgranny (anonymous) says…
Posted by Patriotman (anonymous) on November 8, 2006 at 7:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
November 11 is only 3 days away. Regardless of your affiliation remember that we are all americans first and support the troops!
Right you are Patriotman. And perhaps I was a bit of a jackass-I apologize.
hottruckinmama (anonymous) says…
they just called va. for webb.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Democrats now control both House and Senate. 51-seat majority in the Senate means Bush can probably take Cheney along on more hunting trips to Crawford, since Cheney's tie-breaking vote in the Senate will be unnecessary.
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
hottruckinmama (anonymous) says…
so do you suppose now they can come up with someway to make the iraqi people take resonsibilty for that dang country of their's so our kids can come home?
Katara (anonymous) says…
Oh Sionil, you are so clever! Patriotman also believes I'm HGA too.
Yup. I have a lot of posts. I have a lot of opinions. And your point is?
Look, you are here to exact some sort of "revenge" on HGA. It is obvious. Several posters are calling you on it.
Sure, I question your mental health. I question Patriotman's as well. You and he are the only ones flogging the HGA/Wendt dead horse. Over and over and over. That is not healthy behavior no matter how you view it.
You link to a website where Groenhagen has posted numerous times about all this "secret" info (from Bill Wendt's website no less - if HGA is Wendt and Wendt has a website that Groenhagen is getting his info from, how secret is it anyway?)
It is old and it is tiring. Don't you think if anyone cared about whether HGA was Wendt or not, there would be more posters (other than the usual 3) talking about it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
laughingatallofu, you are right and I apologize for my contribution to this "off-topic" discussion. I am getting very frustrated with all this "I'm here and going to make your life miserable" from wannabe stalkers.
I am frustrated with the inability of the LJW to keep people who have been banned numerous times off this site so that we aren't subjected to their obsessions and fantasies of revenge.
I am frustrated that I let myself get sucked into their "issues".
I am frustrated by people like right_thinker, who under normal circumstances can be pretty darn clever, but once the chief troublemakers show up, rolls over and plays the submissive follower to "mean popular girl" mentality.
I am even more frustrated by the fact that these people think their behavior is perfectly acceptable and politicians listen to these type of people & model their politics after it.
However, I am hopeful that the lastest election results have shown that, much like the the LJW posters who are tired of Sionil & Patriotman, the people are tired of such tactics and will no longer view them as acceptable.
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
back on (near) topic (please???)
The AP called Va. for Webb, but I don't think anyone else has. My understanding is that Va. has until next Tuesday (barring a re-count) to certify the vote. My guess is that Allen won't concede until then. And there will be protracted legal wranglings from now until eternity.
Actually, I'd like to see Allen win his seat back. That way, Dick Cheney is going to have to come out of his "undisclosed secret location" (a.k.a. "spider hole") at least once a day to break a tie vote in the Senate. That actually won't be such a bad thing. He can be on familiar territory and spout the "F" word to his "enemies" as often as he likes.
maxtin (anonymous) says…
I am VERY tired... I slept about three hours last night... I found the elections absorbing enough that I made dubious decisions as regards sleep. I plowed my way through work... dragging my a*s all day... and came back to spend an HOUR plowing through this stuff... You regulars have done well in the past (occasionally asinine but interesting)... This is a remarkable response to last night's events... There is clearly personal emotional investment in this forum for you... I'd agree that it's mind-boggling that 'Sionil' is not personally emotionally invested given THOSE comments TODAY. If you're not then STOP it. I can't believe that personal wrangling between 'regulars' on the forum dominated today's postings... What the *uck?
Patriotman; you've been the standard bearer mature republican today. Right_Thinker I bet y'got a gun under the pillow 'n' y've never been in a fistfight. P**sy. Blowing Shiite **** makes you SOOO tough!
That isn't a tone I'd normally use... or that I endorse. But I'm tired and annoyed. The forum club got personal wid each other today. Whether right or left you have to see that todays events may have genuine historical significance. THAT's interesting. Some kind of forum history rendered todays, of all days, forum postings some of the most boring and uninteresting you've managed. Maybe I'm just tired. I did post some more positive comments earlier in the day before i worked.
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
logicsound04,
Thanks for staying on topic---and giving me an opportunity to respond to something OTHER than childish posts.
Here's Dubya's first problem: He can't control the policy agenda. The Republican Congress was a rubber stamp for whatever he wanted, policy-wise. No longer.
I heard a blurb today that he was "amenable" to some sort of increase in the minimum wage. It'll be interesting to see how both sides (Dub and the D's---the R's are now irrelevant) approach each other.
I doubt that anything substantiative will happen in Washington over the next 2 years. The Dems got the votes, but Dubya has the veto pen and is stubborn to boot.
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
maxtin,
Agreed. I wish that the children who are hogging server space for no useful purpose would just go away so that we get back to something that's close to intellectually stimulating.
Heck, I'd even welcome Marion's comments at this point!
Thanks, (<--- get it, Marion?)
laughing
Kodiac (anonymous) says…
Hey has anyone noticed how gas has shot up by about 13 cents since yesterday. I know all the so-called "experts" say that certain individuals or groups can't control the gas prices like that since it is a global market but it is hard for me not to make some more out of the fluctuation in gas prices. I was talking to a friend who is fairly conservative and even he sees a little bit of conspiracy. I can't remember how long the prices were holding steady at 1.99 and then even lower to 1.97 the last few days but now it is back up to the 2.10 to 2.18 range in just one day. Does anybody see this?
maxtin (anonymous) says…
Thank you... South Park is on; it'll raise the tone. S**ew you guys...
maxtin (anonymous) says…
(Commercial) My user-name is a combination of my son's name, and my name. I could give a s**t if anyone 'figures out' who I am. Who ARE you why are you and your respondents engaging in this puerile CR@P?
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
Posted by sionil (anonymous) on November 8, 2006 at 9:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Hey has anyone noticed how gas has shot up by about 13 cents since yesterday."
Looks like Boyda has already broken one promise. She was supposed to get the gas prices down.
--------
Um. Care to contribute something useful and not add gasoline to the fire that you've been fueling today?
maxtin (anonymous) says…
Independents, moderate republican's, and genuine conservatives voted with democrats yesterday... The idea that these groups felt like they could vote WITH us ought not to inspire vituperous postings... I thought I'd witnessed a correction; not Karl Rove or Bush II... erm II "We have a mandate"... There WAS a mandate handed out. It was to stop it. i didn't think it was a vote to engage in some long-running "George Wendt" debate... The 'personal' attacks are survivable... The clear fact that there are some kind of long term personal issues being 'worked out' by the regulars on this site is reprehensible. YAWN.
How about inclusive democracy? How about despite the choice-limiting first past the post system we try and work together...?
PS. My kid's in kindergarten... evolution is non-negotiable nutjobs
Katara (anonymous) says…
I've been admonished now by sionil?
When did you turn into our mothers? Or the forum police?
I don't care if you think I'm HGA or Wendt or whoever but your veiled threat a la Groenhagen (from the link you provide) is enough.
"I think the lesson here is to treat others here respectfully because your anonymity isn't a guarantee."
and from one of your RCT links
Groenhagen Groenhagen is online now
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 115
Default Re: Photo of holygrailale
observer:
Again, just name the date and time for the Legion.
Be careful with your insults and threats. We found out who holygrailale is. Do you think you can remain anonymous forever?
Reply With Quote
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Enough.
maxtin (anonymous) says…
Erm... could you w*nkers stop threatening to out each other. Lame. While it is BORING it is also irritating. i'll repeat: what the F***
Katara (anonymous) says…
"A lot of churches in this area aren't going to be very happy about this," Weeks said. "Ryun resonated with people with strong church ties. To them, Boyda's victory will be a slap in the face by the liberals and academics - a case of not sticking to the agenda we need to stick to."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What agenda is this guy actually talking about? And why do church going people think (according to this guy's opinion) that a vote for something other than Republican is a slap in the face?
Don't they realize that the real slap in the face was Kline's using their place of worship for his political agenda & endangering their non-profit status?
maxtin (anonymous) says…
You are an "Islamo-fascist's" wet dream. THEY lost TOO
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Pilgrim, you're a complete goob. Up your medication, or go back to building your bombs in your basement.
Complete and utter lack of reason...
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
maxtin (anonymous) says…
OK Katara posted in between and that response now reads like nincompoopery of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld orders of magnitude... What y'need t' get a hold of is that there is a whole generation of teenage Muslim kids (there are hundreds of millions of 'em; the healthy teenagers don't) who hear "Islamo-fascism" as a title as something like African American's would hear "Ni&&er-fascism"(and I DO both apologise for and feel uncomfortable about typing this). You are inciting violence. END of story.
Navin_R_Johnson (anonymous) says…
for the life of me, i cant see how you folks can get all riled up for a repulican or a democrat. how the hel do you tell the difference anymore?
republicans spend like the democrats of old and now democrats are forced to mention foreign concpets like "fiscal responsibility" and, at times, actually seem to make sense as a viable option to this idiot idea of neoconservatism...then i see that pelosi person and dean play the scary fools they are or kerry (who i'd swear was being paid by rove to insert his foot in his mouth), and am brought back (quite unhappily) to reality.
the republicans got the boot. i think they deserved it. i said a few days ago, i thought it was a good idea for the dems to win both houses. its easy to complain and cry, its another thing to govern. lets see what they got, but dont hold your collective breaths. we'll still be in iraq 2 years from now, mark my word.
dont fool yourselves, democrats are no real option to rebulican incompetence. theyll make you FEEL like the good guys are in charge and'll make things happen real square, but they suck just like the other guys.
peace,
navin
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
Posted by Pilgrim (anonymous) on November 8, 2006 at 9:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
P.S. All you who voted for "change" just handed every Islamo-fascist around the world exactly what they wanted.
Way to go. Hope you're proud of yourselves. Now get ready to duck and cover.
---------
Pilgrim,
I disagree. I travel a lot around the world. There are times when I am in foreign capitals where I don't have to strip to my underwear and vomit my carry-on to the plastic thing that will go through the x-ray machine. When I ask why, I often hear "because we don't have to be afraid like you are". Thanks, Dubya for making the US "safer".
Pilgrim's Rebublicans have not made the world safer. Maybe the Democrats can.
"Duck and cover" is what Americans have been doing for the past 5 years. Yet, "cut and run" seems more fashionable. Interesting.
xenophonschild (anonymous) says…
I wish the LJW would relent somewhat and let Kevin back under his old name so we could at least resume hostilities on familiar ground.
He obviously carries a grudge against my colleague HGA for the many bludgeonings and brutal eviscerations he sustained - almost nightly - from the keyboard of holygrailale.
And, while Kevin now demonstrates a palpable malice, HGA never exhibited any meanness or low conduct toward him. I slopped suds with HGA enough - and we chuckled at Kevin, right-thinker, conservativeman et. al. - to know that to be true.
Democrats would be well advised not too spend too much time investigating Republicans; let the historians issue their damnation. The country needs firm, competent leadership, not partisan bashing.
Katara (anonymous) says…
Sorry, maxtin, I don't get a say in how the posts show up. However, you do make an excellent point.
That whole generation of teenage Muslim kids are growing up hearing how they are all "Islamo-facists" and how they need to be "turned into a glass parking lot" and we wonder why so many hate us.
maxtin (anonymous) says…
What you guys don't get is that evangelical christians in control of the most powerful country in the world scares the living SH** out of the rest of the world. As in actual FEAR . They think we're gonna nuke 'em to bring on the apocalypse... NOT an exaggeration... Europe tossed the puritans out five hundred years ago... we invited them back EIGHT years ago. SCARY. It was the kind of fear that inspired a rabid desire for weapons of mass destruction among other religiously extreme countries...Way to defend us... Terrify the rest of the nutjobs into 'tooling up'!
Katara (anonymous) says…
If you don't mind my using the phrase, maxtin, but you are "preaching to the choir" here.
We already know what control evangelical Christians had in the White House. See the info about Haggard.
We have a President who has claimed that God spoke to him about running & that God wanted him elected.
What do you expect from that?
Kodiac (anonymous) says…
To pilgrim....
"Be the change you wish to see in the world." -- Ghandi
"There is something to that old saying that hate
injures the hater, not the hated."
-- Peace Pilgrim (1908-1981)
Blessed are the Peacemakers,
for they shall be known as
the Children of God.
But I say to you that hear, love your enemies.
do good to those who hate you,
bless those who curse you
pray for those who abuse you
To those that strike you on the cheek,
offer the other one also,
and from those who take away your cloak,
do not withhold your coat as well.
Give to everyone who begs from you,
and of those who take away your goods,
do not ask for them again.
And as you wish that others would do to you,
do so to them. -- Christian Prayer
In the name of Allah,
the beneficent, the merciful.
Praise be to the Lord of the
Universe who has created us and
made us into tribes and nations
That we may know each other, not that
we may despise each other.
If the enemy incline towards peace, do
thou also incline towards peace, and
trust God, for the Lord is the one that
heareth and knoweth all things.
And the servants of God,
Most gracious are those who walk on
the Earth in humility, and when we
address them, we say "PEACE." -- Muslim Prayer
Love,
Kodiac
Katara (anonymous) says…
Kodiac,
Very nice. I especially like the Ghandi quote.
maxtin (anonymous) says…
Positives:
1. Secular OR religious American's who actually believe in the constitution spoke out...
2. ACTUAL conservatives spoke out for fiscal conservatism.
3. REASON spoke to most American's and led them to castigate the internationally inflammatory neocons; and let them know that their irrational idealogy has been shown up for the nonsense that it ALWAYS was... History won't exalt you Don'... T'ain't everyone else who's wrong.
4. Rove's & the neocon's arrogant belief that they could mobilize evangelicals as a voting bloc that would secure a permanent 'Republican' majority is shattered.
Way to go USA!
5.The democrats have restrained their gloating
6. Donald Rumsfeld got 's' canned today...
7. Let's hope that the air of reconciliation and an attempt at progress survives through the next two weeks... I KNOW I'm being optimistic... think of it more as
a dare...
8. If you feel that the rules in this forum are being violated go to LJworld.com... That those grievances dominated here is desperately sad... If I'm summarily ejected I'll live with it...
maxtin (anonymous) says…
I'm also surprised that my dig at first-past -the-post; as opposed to representative democracy went unremarked (It is very un-Jeffersonian... I think the block system's creepy too... sorry)... I wonder if anyone noticed... I only feel confident mentioning it when the republicans would benefit... Otherwise the 'stealth' republican under the 'green' screen name might come after me... who cares! What WAS all that S***? Get a job/ life/ family/clue everyone who played that today. Self indulgence of that magnitude stymies my feeble attempts at optimism...PS. I'm not picking out one person... almost half the posts on this sight are wierd 'in-forum' S*** today. TODAY. It was a kinda bigger deal than that....
Navin_R_Johnson (anonymous) says…
logicsound04,
'I hope you're wrong, but I'll admit I don't have much faith in either party. '
hel, i pray im wrong. jest that past history being what it is an all, im pretty sure im not gonna be, and folks that dont pay attention to such things and take this stuff deadly serious'll think me a prophet. so dont let my secret out. partisanship makes me look smart.
'The only viable option we have in a two-party system is to make sure our government is balanced with D's AND R's to make sure checks and balances work properly.'
nah, thats jes a surefire way to ensure incompetence abounds. need another party or two. greens and constitutionals (real alrernatives) or something along those lines to compete with the monopoly of stupidity!
either way, being emotional about either makes about as much sense as hitting yourself in the head with a maul hammer. but im sure my advice'll go unheeded.
i am, after all, a jerk! :)
peace,
navin
maxtin (anonymous) says…
representative democracy... for all that it is derided, has left ITALY trumping us on most international standards... They USED to immigrate here... Are you happy with the fact that Italian kids who STAY get better educations and healthcare? We're no. 50 some... we're no. 50 some?... Like being on the a** end of factual comparisons? How about the worst infant mortality rate in the industrialised world? YEAH you LOVE kid's so much that you care about blastocysts more than you do... well... KIDS... Pro bigotry. Way to play the teeny white peeny RNC...
maxtin (anonymous) says…
How about you enroll your children as congressional pages Marion?
maxtin (anonymous) says…
Corruption is endemic in a first-past-the-post political system. That's why I DON'T endorse it and have been trying to suggest WHAT I think yesterday meant... Givin' Ted or Nancy a free hand wasn't even like 'IT'. How I'm supposed to be stung by this response; other than tenuous 'guilt by association' is beyond me. You lost your fight with THEM; attacking ME is self-indulgence... I hope that you enjoyed it! Night night.
Tychoman (anonymous) says…
Marion, why on earth are you so bitter? Suck it up, the election's over.
Pilgrim, you never have anything to add to these forums, all you do is add sarcastic, rude and mean-spirited remarks. Clam up.
Mkh (anonymous) says…
Posted by Pilgrim (anonymous) on November 8, 2006 at 9:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
P.S. All you who voted for "change" just handed every Islamo-fascist around the world exactly what they wanted.
Way to go. Hope you're proud of yourselves. Now get ready to duck and cover.
Pilgrim,
Preaching these ridiculous statements of Karl Rove and Dick Cheney only prove that you have absolutely no real education about the history of Iraq, Islam or what is happening on the ground there. Its just sad neo-McCarthyism.
Jamesaust (anonymous) says…
Mkh -
two more years of the Cheney/Rumsfeld cabal was an al-Qaeda wet dream.
Stuff your treason.
Mkh (anonymous) says…
Posted by Jamesaust (anonymous) on November 9, 2006 at 12:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Mkh -
two more years of the Cheney/Rumsfeld cabal was an al-Qaeda wet dream.
Stuff your treason."
OK James, and what exactly is My treason???
Kodiac (anonymous) says…
Mkh,
I think James is just telling you that Pilgrim misses the point not because she is leading a McCarthyist attack (hence the reason for the Stuff your Treason remark) but because Al Qaeda actually benefitted from having people like Rumsfield and Cheney whose policies of torture and agression have created an endless supply of martyrs willing to die for Qaeda. Of course I could be wrong about this but I am sure James will correct me if I am.
xenophonschild (anonymous) says…
Someone posted earlier that the election was merely another of your standard, mid-term losses for the party in power.
Not true. As watershed elections go, this one rivaled the GOP's takeover in 1994, which made Newt Gingrich speaker of the House, the first Republican to run the House since the Eisenhower administration. This time the shift comes in the midst of an unpopular war, a Congress scarred by scandal and just two years from a wide-open presidential contest. That the Democracts have also secured the Senate means that Republicans will be shut out of power - much the way they shut Democrats out for the last twelve years. A strong executive, as was William the Great, can survive and flourish in such adversity, but the Chief Cowboy Idiot lacks Clinton's intelligence, judgement, fortitude, and political skills.
The election means Shrub will be the lamest duck of all lame ducks; he will soon be essentially insignificant . . . much like Republicans themselves.
middleoftheroader (anonymous) says…
I just hope that both parties realize that what the people asked for was democrats. which means that the repubs that are remaining need to let the democrats do what the democrats do. also the democrats need to realize that they need to do democrat things not moderate republican things or centrist things. they are democrats and thats what the people want, so be democrats. I may be in the middle of the road but this election showed that the majority of the people arent, both parties need to realize this. now please all you democrats go out there and give us our personal freedoms that the repubs wouldnt give us!!!!!
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
"As watershed elections go, this one rivaled the GOP's takeover in 1994, which made Newt Gingrich speaker of the House, the first Republican to run the House since the Eisenhower administration."
Not true.
1. The Republicans gained a 54-seat swing in the house during a very good economic time in 1994. This 2006 election was a shift of about 30 seats, during a very brutal year for Republicans.
2. Most of the democratic pickups are sefl described "conservative democrats", whom is going to have problems with the leadership. ie those like Heath Schuler.
3. Democrats come out to the polls more than Republicans. Republican base "punished" their candidates by staying home and not voting.
4. There was some geographic realignment of both the National parties distribution.
5. It was a 6th year election in a 2 term Presidency.
6. nothing is going to get done.
You remember the democrats cry about defending the fillibuster?
That's right, the Republicans are going to fillibuster everything. If it was OK for the Dems, it is OK for the Repubs.
Folks, we offically have gridlock like in the middle to late 80's.
Do you rememeber how that affected the economy?
staff04 (anonymous) says…
To all who claim to "know" what the agenda of the new majority is:
You're wrong. Lay off the talking points because you are simply wrong.
Trust me.
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
What the Democratic Party in charge means:
""Analysts are saying that the outcomes of the elections could drive prices higher if the market thought that meant we'd be pulling out of Iraq and leaving the world's oil reserves less secure," Hanni said."
Less Secure. Stock market does not like that, the economy doesn't like that.
The 2008 elections will be about "secure" and "national defense".
The Dems had better seal the southern border, and not grant citizenship to illegals.
staff04 (anonymous) says…
sionil/Arminius-
Do we really have to go through this? Are you going to start a battle of semantics with me again?
I didn't say no one knows, my post was directed at those on this board who have previously claimed to know.
You know as well as I do that the Contract with America fell flat on its face. That's why Newt Gingrich has made so many statements recently about the leadership in the House.
My comment was directed at every one of the neoconservatives on this board who have used the phrases "far-left," "San Francisco Values," "DemonRats," or "gridlock," among others. Some people on this board know more about the agenda than others. That was my point. Wild speculation and blanket denial of the statements made by the Democrats after securing at least the House don't make your statements true--it makes them stupid. Then again, I don't really expect you to get that...
I suppose you have some grand theory about why Rumsfeld resigned too...
Anyway, glad to see you are back. ;)
ksmoderate (anonymous) says…
sionil: Drop it. Seriously.
Back on topic:
It seems the democrats didn't need a specific unified position on Iraq this time around. In a perfect world, the Prez will be able to put this thing on a track to real victory with the help of the new Congress. His statements over the last two days certainly point towards working together (uniter, not divider!), and I'm heartened by that. Let's see if both sides decide to play nice...
ksmoderate (anonymous) says…
Oh, come on sionil. Neither side likes to play nice.
"Anyone who has paid attention to energy issues knows that there is much more talk about alternatives to fossil fuels in 2006 than they was during the 1990s, and that includes talk (and action) from those in the Oval Office."
I'm not aware of any action by the oval office about alternatives to fossil fuel, but then again, I might have missed it. Fill us in, please?
By the way, what makes you think I'm a liberal?
staff04 (anonymous) says…
sionil-
Clearly, you are Arminius. Posting links to the National Review, citing year-old articles. You really are not as bright as you think you are.
You're right. Some of the Contract with America WAS implemented. Too bad the important part about reducing the deficit was implemented by a Democrat...yes, your favorite, Bill Clinton.
You love your links to outdated articles, don't you.
I don't think "stay the course," when no one knows what the "course" is, is really a clear plan, do you?
I'll be the first to say that I don't know exactly what to do about Iraq. I think that the Democratic suggestions for changing direction (redeployment, more troops in, sectarian division of the country) have largely been ignored in the name of "stay the course." So, to say that the Democrats don't have a position is a distortion. Also, to assume that the plan has not evolved some over the last year (since that article was written) is pretty thick.
As for issues not related to Iraq, I think the agenda is very clear. Raise the minimum wage, balance the tax burden, fix the Medicare prescription drug plan, a new focus on oversight...hell, here's an article that is one hour old that sums it up pretty well.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsd...
werekoala (anonymous) says…
"If they had no unified position, then they have no mandate regarding Iraq when they take power in 2007."
===========================
How about: "quit farking up!"?
staff04 (anonymous) says…
werekoala-
Aside from just figuring out your screen name and nearly choking because it made me laugh, your post made me laugh too. That about sums it up...
werekoala (anonymous) says…
staff04:
Thanks, I'm deadly when I climb a eucalyptus tree under a full moon. :)
xenophonschild (anonymous) says…
Shrub is a lame duck; in the not-too-distant future, most of his closest associates will get bored and leave. No one in Washington will pay attention to him. He lacks the stature, intelligence, character etc., to survive without Rove. When that twit finally packs it, Shrub will be all alone.
sionil, huh? Why do you keep popping up on this site? One would think, given the goofball conservative dreck you spout and obviously believe, you would feel more comfortable on a right-wing fringe site . . . or is it that you crave being sliced and diced by holygrailale on a wonderfully regular basis?
tony88 (anonymous) says…
at this rate, 42 posts/1 day, sionil will make post 15,330 by the time he/she has been a registered user of this forum for 1 year.
by sionil's #'s
15,330 x 5 minutes/post=1277.5 hours=31.9 work weeks.
wasting time? spending time with your family?
tony88 (anonymous) says…
that's 24 hours
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
The real reason the Republicans LOST this election is they did not behave according to their principals. You cannot abandon the principal on the way to power. These are lined out here:
The Republican Creed
I do not choose to be a common man.
It is my right to be uncommon.
If I can seek opportunity, not security,
I want to take the calculated risk to dream and
build, to fail and to succeed.
I refused to barter incentive for dole.
I prefer the challenges of life to
guaranteed security, the thrill of fulfillment
to the state of calm utopia.
I will not trade freedom for beneficence,
nor my dignity for a handout.
I will never cower before any master,
save my God.
It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and
unafraid. To think and act for myself, enjoy the
benefit of my creations; to face the whole world
boldly and say, "I am a free American."
The Republican Oath
I believe that the proper function of government is to do for the people those things that have to be done but cannot be done, or cannot be done as well by individuals, and that the most effective government is government closest to the people.
I believe that good government is based on the individual and that each person's ability, dignity, freedom and responsibility must be honored and recognized.
I believe that free enterprise and the encouragement of individual initiative and incentive have given this nation an economic system second to none.
I believe that sound money policy should be our goal.
I believe in equal rights, equal justice and equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, creed, age, sex or national origin. I believe that persons with disabilities should be afforded equal rights, equal justice and equal opportunity as well.
I believe we must retain those principles worth retaining, yet always be receptive to new ideas with an outlook broad enough to accommodate thoughtful change and varying points of view.
I believe that Americans value and should preserve their feeling of national strength and pride, and at the same time share with people everywhere a desire for peace and freedom and the extension of human rights throughout the world.
Finally, I believe that the Republican Party is the best vehicle for translating these ideals into positive and successful principles of government.
staff04 (anonymous) says…
Where did sionil go?
beatrice (anonymous) says…
holyg: Since I was a kid, I've loved Robert Heinlein's books. I guess you could say that come January, Bush will feel a bit like a "Stranger in a Strange Land."
ksmoderate (anonymous) says…
Oh look. Sionil didn't last long!
ksmoderate (anonymous) says…
Looks like Holygrail is out too? Righttinker, Patriotman, are you still here?
Kodiac (anonymous) says…
Whoa. Didn't expect that...
Kodiac (anonymous) says…
I think our community just got quite abit smaller......
tony88 (anonymous) says…
and then there was silence...
tony88 (anonymous) says…
I don't know. It looks like over on rivercitytalk that groenhagen was making plans to contact the LJW owners to complain about the whole deal, particularly HGA. Oddly, on RCT, groenhagen said "mission accomplished" in reference to the HGA username being removed.
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
Maybe the LJW moderators actually READ what they are supposed to moderate and off-loaded a number of people who really weren't contributing anything to the discussion. It was obvious that they had it in for each other, and they wasted precious electrons to boot.
I am not offended when someone disagrees with me. The reason I'm here is to learn about what the "other side" is thinking (even though I may have to hold my nose to get through it). It's hard work to hold your tongue (or your fingers, in this case) when someone attacks what you believe.
But the extent to which those who (hopefully) have been removed were going at each other was getting ridiculous.
So here's my pledge:
1. I will try my darndest to respect everyone on this board.
2. When I disagree with you, I will tell you so, but with respect.
If I fail and call you a moron (or worse), please realize that it's hard to type with one hand while you're holding your nose with the other, and sometimes I will get frustrated and, well, call you a moron. I'm human.
Am I all alone in this endeavor?
ksmoderate (anonymous) says…
Well said, laughing.
RT: I would have been surprised if you were booted.
Anyone know if Allen conceded in VA? I heard he was supposed to this afternoon.
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
Allen conceded. Senate is 49-49 with 2 Independents who will caucus with the D's. Who woulda thunk?
tony88 (anonymous) says…
a little of Bukowski (from the L.A. Riots of '92) to sober us "leftist" "triumphalists" a bit:
the riots
I've watched this city burn twice
in my lifetime
and the most notable thing
was the arrival of the
politicians in the
aftermath
proclaiming the wrongs of
the system
and demanding new
policies toward and for the
poor.
nothing was corrected last
time.
nothing will be corrected this
time.
the poor will remain poor.
the unemployed will remain
so.
the homeless will remain
homeless
and the politicians,
fat upon the land, will live
very well.
-Charles Bukowski
5/5/1992
That said. It should be an interesting two years.
justthetruth (anonymous) says…
After I read some of the post I wonder what party is the hate party again? We can do better let's return to lower taxes cut spending and throw your earmark away. We must have a vision or we, not some party but the people fail.
paladin (anonymous) says…
The victorious Democrats need to deliver. They need to have an agenda that will benefit us directly, not abstractly. They need to devise a plan for our disengagement in the Middle East. They need to give us hope with a vision of substance and specific goals for social programs, such as health care, that are feasible and practical and obtainable. In short, they need to be real, which they haven't been in the past. Good luck! Once the rosy glow has waned, there is real hard work to be done. I fear that they are not together enough to get it done. I hope I'm wrong. I hope it just not politics as usual. That's what I expect will happen. So sad.
xenophonschild (anonymous) says…
Don't worry - Democrats will deliver, again.
Democrats saved the country while the Republicans fumbled in blank shock during the Depression and WWII, and will save the Republic again.
Katara (anonymous) says…
laughingatallofu, your post was my goal in posting on this forum. If I slip up and make a fuss again, then please let me know (offline is cool). You must be better at keeping your emotions in check.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That being said. I think that Democrats should focus on getting Americans united again. I think they should concentrate on not being divisive as the former group in power was.
E pluribus unum.
laughingatallofu (anonymous) says…
paladin,
I agree. The Dems need to deliver. But it ain't going to be easy. Given the partisanship that has festered in Washington for the past 6 (or more years). I doubt that everyone is going to come together and sing "Kumbayya" (spelling?) in January. I'd hate for the Dems to act with revenge and vindictiveness on their minds, and I'd hate for the Repubs to act like the Dems have been for the past 12 years (i.e., obstructionists)
Navin_R_Johnson (anonymous) says…
shadower,
certainly its not your contention that democrats dont spin.
my god you ever heard that pelosi person speak or that dingbat dean?
now im an equal opportunity critic. i think republicans are a collection of monkeys. its jus that democrats are the same species and occupy the same cage, screaming and slinging pooh like the rest of their kin.
putting hope in monkeys, be it chimp or baboon, to make you life better aint the quality of a sane person.
democrate and republicans: same species, different pooh, same smell.
peace,
navin
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
Boy, I fell of my seat laughing on this one:
"i think republicans are a collection of monkeys. its jus that democrats are the same species and occupy the same cage, screaming and slinging pooh like the rest of their kin."
The BEST analysis of the current political twits and philosophies we have had over the last 20 years.
however the depth gets better:
"putting hope in monkeys, be it chimp or baboon, to make you life better aint the quality of a sane person."
I am laughing so hard now it is hard to type.5.3;23,m4p2mp mrel'kmrm
rotflmao!!!!!
you got that one right!!!!
very, very, very good, there Navin!
Good post and sentiment.
"democrate and republicans: same species, different pooh, same smell."
Navin_R_Johnson (anonymous) says…
asbestos,
thank you sir/ma'am. my pleasure.
i d rather hit myself in the head with a tack hammer than attempt a serious argument that party affiliation determines whether one is good or evil. i dam sure dont have it in me to take a side and level the charge that the others are hypocrites.
i suppose i won't be long for this board, huh?
take care,
peace,
navin
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
I sir am a mineral!
"thank you sir/ma'am. my pleasure."
I take offense (sarcasm) at that gender/mammal/animal identity thingy.
Thanks for the laugh!
Navin_R_Johnson (anonymous) says…
Posted by Culture_Warrior (anonymous) on November 9, 2006 at 7:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
'Monkeys can count damn it! They are much smarter than the politicians in the two party system.'
my sincere ape-ology. i didnt intend to insult primates by likening them to politicians!
peace,
navin
paladin (anonymous) says…
Please. Its time to get serious and to get real. Your species' future is at stake. Enough is enough. Tune into the critical issues and vital last opportunities that are evident in these times. Stop screwing around by self-gratifying, non-consequential game playing. Time to wake up and grow up. Time to take some positive action toward the world you want to live in. You can do it. Focus that energy on trying to make a better world for all of us regular, common folk. Do it.
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
arrrggghhhh! Bombatrded with empty platitudes and cliches!
"Please. Its time to get serious and to get real. Your species' future is at stake. Enough is enough. Tune into the critical issues and vital last opportunities that are evident in these times. Stop screwing around by self-gratifying, non-consequential game playing. Time to wake up and grow up. Time to take some positive action toward the world you want to live in. You can do it. Focus that energy on trying to make a better world for all of us regular, common folk. Do it."
Can't ...unh...take...much unh more...!
Tychoman (anonymous) says…
Grail's gone? What's this world coming to? We can have the U.S. Congress but we can't have holygrailale? Why not both?
Good riddance sionil.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
right_thinker...
Rational thought has never been your strong point. I understand that, and I witness it every day.
Pelosi is driving you mad because, obviously, you have an unhealthy obsession with her. Much in the same way other Conservatives--Marion, for example--obsess about Hillary Clinton. To the point that it almost becomes a sexual fetish, just like "Arminius" has a fetish for Bill Clinton.
You do have the power to make a choice, though, right_thinker. If Pelosi is "driving you mad"... don't let her. Make a choice. Shut down your computer. Turn off the TV. Take your wife out to breakfast/lunch/dinner. Curl up with a nice, comforting Ann Coulter book.
Let's get a bit of a grip here, folks: Even Pelosi acknowledged, on NPR's "All Things Considered" Thursday afternoon, that what we have here is a "simple majority." To have a truly effective "working majority," you need to control 60 or more seats.
A bit more interesting, IMHO, is the fate of the Go14. Two of the Republican members, Mike DeWine and Lincoln Chafee, were thrown out on Tuesday. (Former) Democratic member Joe Lieberman lost in the Democratic primaries, came back as an independent, and won. This reaffirms and strengthens his position as a moderate... might even be able to refer to him as a Centrist at this point!
So what happens to the remaining members of Go14? Will they find replacements? Will they find replacements, and even more? Maybe Go18 or Go20?
It would be instructive to go back over all the Senate votes of the past 4-6 years and see just how many times voters were clearly and absolutely split down party divisions. My gut feeling is that there were crossover votes more often than most of us would care to admit.
Those of you running around with a "Pelosi fetish"... get help, please.
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Clarification: Second to last graf above, when I wrote,
"It would be instructive to go back over all the Senate votes of the past 4-6 years and see just how many times voters were clearly and absolutely split down party divisions."
The "voters" I was referring to were the Senators themselves, not voting citizens.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Perhaps the "we" she's referring to is the conglomeration of voters from several states who went to the polls on Tuesday night and sent a strong, clear message to the current Republican-controlled executive and legislative branches of government?
Perhaps she's acknowledging all of those who voted for Democratic candidates on the ballots they were given?
This is a big change... and yes, it *is* history-making. It is something that will be referred to in school history textbooks 100 years from now. A day when voters said, among other things, "Yes, we need to fight terrorism and violent, religious extremism--but we need to do so prudently."
Like it not, this was an historical event. Of course, you're more than welcome to write your own history textbook, and say otherwise.
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
P.S. I was really poking fun at the extremists here, right_thinker... and you happen to be one.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
So, what "culture" do you represent? Freeperland? If so, thanks for the laugh.
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Quite serious about the "history" thing...
Quite sarcastic about extremist claptrap you consider "culture"...
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
re your 11:22am post...
Also...
http://www2.ljworld.com/users/Culture...
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
HERE is eveidence of the "Change" in store for the US under Democratic Rule.
"http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-11-10t140135z_01_l10266591_rtrukoc_0_us-usa-elections-iran.xml&src=rss&rpc=22"
"GOP loss good for Iran says leader"
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
http://today.reuters.com/news/article...
Sorry bout that post.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
So, asbestos, if I say I'm opposed to "black"... does it mean I'm automatically in favor of "white?"
Your dualistic thinking is boring... and child-like in it's lack of scope.
World leaders opposed to America will always spout off with crap like this...
***************
"It's clear the U.S. electoral system is not as fair and as perfect as the country boasts," said an editorial in the main English language newspaper in China's state-controlled media.
An academic at Tsinghua University agreed. "This case makes both elites and the public believe there is something wrong with America's democratic system," said Yan Xuetong. "You do not have the right to lecture others."
Cuba recently blamed the Florida election problems on President Fidel Castro's foes, and declared the state a "banana republic."
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/allpolit...
***************
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
So, right_thinker, if these guys are intent on that threat against the White House... maybe it's time to actually do something relevant and tangible about border security?
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Got a link for that big "bust" in the UK? CNN and Google News have zilch... though I did find this:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/...
Says they're tracking stuff, but nothing about 1,600 arrests.
Why do you hate the Democrats so much? How have they failed you? And how have Republicans succeeded, where they have failed? Seems to me there's plenty of success/failure to go around on both sides...
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
logicsound04, you've gone off the rails...
Did you actually see "Nancy Pelosi" on your ballot the other day?
Neither of us voted for her. And when I was filling out my ballot, her name never came to mind. I was too busy focusing on Kansas, and my municipality.
I seriously doubt that anybody went to the polls thinking of "Nancy Pelosi"... other than the people in her district.
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
I think I can honestly say, though, that I've never seen you post a raging diatribe against Republicans/Conservatives.
Did I miss it?
Does somebody else know where one might be?
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
Agnostik:
"So, asbestos, if I say I'm opposed to "black"... does it mean I'm automatically in favor of "white?"
Your dualistic thinking is boring... and child-like in it's lack of scope.
World leaders opposed to America will always spout off with crap like this..."
YEs you are opposed to "white", as in the "correct" way.
Dualistic thinking, but YOU are oblivious to the real threats and facts. You operate on political agenda and devoid of fact and rational reasioning.
Al-Masri, (the guy that replaced the DEAD Al Zarquari) thanked the American people fro voting in the Democrats. They would be more reasonable he postulated. (Meaning they would cringe in fear before him). That was right before he stated that he will wipe the White House off the face of the earth.
I think the American people WILL wake up, after there is real trouble.
Ever watch "Jerico". One should start and plan.....
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Got a lot of Y2K leftovers gathering dust, do ya asbestos? ;)
Do you really think Al-Masri would *not* have said he would take out the White House if the election results had been different?
Puhh-leeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz...
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
"Do you really think Al-Masri would *not* have said he would take out the White House if the election results had been different?"
You skipped over the part where he is happy the Dems won and glad the Republicans lost. Funny why you missed responding to that part and only responded to the White House thing! Seems like the Democratic strategy to deal with terrorists. Denial!
NOW, WHY would a terrorists want the Dems to win? Would it be because that side is weaker and want appeasment and cut and run? Could that be the reason???
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
Your guys are in charge now...IF you want to keep the poser...protect the people and the Republic.
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
I find it amusing that asbestos and others take seriously the obvious tauntings of the terrorists. Part of their strategy is to undermine the leadership of the USA to its people using propaganda.
You are playing right into the terrorists' hands, asbestos.
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
Right_thinker said:
"It's cute that you are so clueless, you unwittingly just admitted by your comments what everyone already knows and has known and what people on the right have been taking seriously for quite some time."
I guess I still don't know. Please explain to me what it is that "everyone already knows and has been known and what people on the right have been taking seriously for some time".
Please be specific.
Your cryptic posting was positively Rumsfeldian.
If you are saying that terrorists influenced the recent election to elect democrats, I would suggest you give the American people more credit (and I would suggest that you are more gullible than I thought).
Then again, maybe you are foolish enough to believe that terrorists "wanted democrats elected" and to believe that Americans are swayed by obvious terrorist propaganda. You fell for Bush's lies, so I guess anything is possible.
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
right_thinker:
I can't believe you are equating the attacks on September 11, 2001 with terrorists saying democrats being elected would help their cause.
Talk about simplistic thinking. I certainly am glad (or I certainly hope) you are not part of the intelligence community of the USA.
Talk about clueless.
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
"Part of their strategy is to undermine the leadership of the USA to its people using propaganda.
You are playing right into the terrorists' hands, asbestos."
As the Dems did saying the WoT was being lost, coerced interrogation, pressuring for Geneva Convention Protection for terrorists, and having a problem with phone survillance of international phone calls from known terrorists.
You really fell for their logic and helped the terrorists a lot.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Terrorists do INDEED rely heavily on propaganda, this is common knowledge."
They sure do. As in "George Bush authorizes torture". Good one for the new leaders of the congress.
Or the Jophn Kerry line, "our troops butchered Iraqi Men women and children."
Or Pelosi's "American bombs innocent women and children."
Yeah that is right, they do use your democrap propaganda.
"Enjoy your laurels,... I am not sure I could in your case."
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
"If you are saying that terrorists influenced the recent election to elect democrats"
Hell yeah! That is why they have stepped up their bombings during the month of October.
They made Iraq look worse than what it actually is.
The constant chorus from the Cindy Sheehan's Party of hippie crystal gripping granola chomping slouches of how bad America is had hurt this country.
How come the Democrats bitching about the Republicans and America is Patriotic in your screwed up mind, but the Republicans killing terrorists that want to kill you and take away your ability to breath or bitch in not???? Why is loving you country warts and all bad, and bitching about unconsequential things some of America does (other countries have done far worse) is good??
We eill se just how good the new "leadership" is and how long it willlast.
I am pretty sure, the economy will tank 6 months in to a Democrat lead congress, and we will be overrun with illegal aliens.
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
Ok, asbestos, wipe the foam from your mouth relax.
The terrorists also said that Bush "staying the course" in Iraq was good for their recruitment and training and good for furthering their agenda. Does thus make Bush a supporter of terrorists?
Geez, wise up.
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
"They also use bloody photo ops for propaganda."
Yeah and CNN runs them as *news*!
(Sniper deaths of American Soldiers)
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
RT you have to keep in mind we also are opposed by the press in addition to the Dems.
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
right_thinker said:
"I give up, nightmare, your thinkning is just too clouded by years of hatred"
I will accept your defeat in this argument and your lack of ability to defend your intemperate rantings.
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
My God, asbestos, I can feel the spittle hitting my face from your last post. Try to use logic and argument instead of foam-at-the-mouth ranting and emotional outbursts.
Its very unbecoming.
You seem to be saying that any criticism of Bush, republicans, and the war supports the terrorists, and that anyone engaging in criticism is anti-American and is suppporting terrorism.
This is ridiculous. Certainly you can't really believe this.
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
And in nightmare's own words:
"Its very unbecoming."
BTW, sonny, there was no spittle nor foaming at the mouth. Just the facts.
Why again does shrill democrap screechings are not foaming at the mouth and are considered rational by the likes of you, and a Conservative telling his side is "foaming at the mouth" and irrational? While the Democrap side is sirene, placid and well thought out? Could that be bias?
Why is debate that lopsided in your adlepated mind?
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
Leahy: "time to find the quickest exit ramp in Iraq"
McGovern: "time to get out of that hell hole"
Murtha" time to get out in 6 months and redeploy to another arab country"
Carter: I really don't need to post that here do I, LOL!
Dingle: "we need to get out as soon as possible, the earlier the better"
Yeah that is GREAT leadership. If you believed the war was a bad idea. leaving a hornets nest stirred up and leaving it at that point is INSANE!
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
right_thinker,
I beg to differ. Your posting from Wiki (LOL) supports my argument. Terrorists prey upon the irrational and intemperate; the ignorant and the scared; the emotional and the stupid. Not discriminating between what terrorists say is just as bad as ignoring what they say. The terrorists are thrilled by americans like you, who will believe whatever they say. Use your brain, man.
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
"Terrorists prey upon the irrational and intemperate; the ignorant and the scared; the emotional and the stupid."
That would be Liberals.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
GOOD one RT:
"...... unwittingly that Dems merely politicized the war in Iraq then? It's one of the two: they fell for terrorists tactics (and the left wing meida) or they knowingly used it for political gain."
werekoala (anonymous) says…
Comments made here reflect comments made by my father, among other sincere but terrified right-wingsmen.
Soomething along the lines of now that the Democrats are in power, we're much more likely to lose a city. Why? Because we'll pull out of Iraq. And presumably, we're fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here.
Now, that makes absoultely no sense to me.
Look, in a conventional war, if Germany wants to attack Russia, it has to go through Poland. But if terrorists want to attack Russia, there's no way that they first have to attack Poland. That's why terrorism's scarey- it kills people with no warning or boundaries or front lines.
I mean put yourself in the shoes of a terrorist who just got a Hiroshima bomb. You're not going to set it off in Baghdad and let the fallout rain over muslim lands, you're going to set it off in NYC or LA.
So the idea "we fight them there so we don't fight them here" isn't just false, it's dangerous. Dangerous because it lets us think we've contained a threat that is inherently uncontainable. And because it lets us ignore severe security holes internally, since the enemy is "over there".
paladin (anonymous) says…
You folks are hopeless and pathetic and doomed to always be miserable. You are your own worst enemies, not the "terrorists", whoever they are. You create your own trouble and fear and anxiety and worry. And its addictive.
Go out and do something positive and nice for somebody else. Think positive thoughts. Go to church. Give something of yourself to someone else, unasked for and unannounced. Better, in the way it helps you feel about yourself, than wallowing around in that dark place of anger and fear and aggression and self-doubt. You don't have to or need to be unhappy. Wake up, while there's still time left.
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
Jerico
paladin (anonymous) says…
I have served. Two tours in Nam. Highly decorated, for what's its worth. I am no soft touch. But, over time I have realized that it is better to give and sacrifice and provide for others, than it is to please myself and gorge myself and try to grasp false ideological tenets that are, fundamentally, meaningless to my reality, which is to love and relate positively to others and to be content with who I am. That's it; that's all.
justthetruth (anonymous) says…
Well the GOP has been taught that when you are in the minority obstruct obstruct obstruct then blame the other side for doing nothing. In the past the GOP worked with the other side the dems wanted NAFTA they passed it. Pres. Bush works with Demo drunk Kennedy and gets no child left behind, and the teacher union hates it so much dems have to dump it. I vote we take the next two years off from congress. Maybe at the state level. The lobbyist would have to work for a change.
werekoala (anonymous) says…
Right_thinker:
"Ever thought about just NYC power grid going down, or LA? "
Right, this is what I'm talking about. If a terrorist is set on shutting down the major power grids of our country - how do the troops in Iraq stop him from doing so?
werekoala (anonymous) says…
Hopefully everyone's in bed.
But on the off-chance, my reply to right_thinker:
1) I don't think you can really point to a single example of terror plots that have been foiled by the Patriot act. I really haven't been able to find one. And since there have been six years for these plots to materialize, either the threat is less than it's been hyped up to be, or the act is superfluous, and other, pre-existing measures have been enough.
Look, I acknowledge that most if not all of the provisions of the act are decent ideas for discussion. But rushing them through the legislature in the aftermath of a national crisis isn't the way to build consensus. And bundling them together puts the many good ideas on the same level as the horrible ideas (library surveillance?). I'd prefer each provision recieve an up-or-down vote.
2) Surveillance - not a bad idea, even of US citizens. as long as: a) no one can gan access to the recordings, b) access to the recordings must be approved by a neutral body, and c) full disclosure is made as to the means and mechanisms.
3) Profiling - we don't do racial profiling, nor should we. The easiest reason for this is that as more and more ethnicities start cross breeding, the "light-brown mutt" phenotype will become more and more prevalent. We already have this problem - is this guy an arab, a dark-skinned jew, or a mulatto? I only hope that in the future this will be so common, that the idea of races and racial preferences will become as outlandish as the idea of prjudice based on hair or eye color is today.
Plus, you have to realize that the second-deadliest terror attack on US soil was perpertrated by a terrorist who was a white chirstian male. So who do you profle?
No, it's not all politicization - I hope the Dems enact many of the idle provisions of the 9/11 Commision. I think at least 50% of teh cargo containers entering our ports shoudld be inspected. Our borders in all directions should be heavily monitored. Visa violator and illegal immigrants should be dealt with more effectively, as should the organizations that support them.
And sorry, the Democrats are a coalition of many disparate convictions, just like the Republicans. They don't only exist to bash on your team, and they're not the Washington Generals.
For a long time under Rush and Rove, it's been possible to just demonize the opposition without listening to them. But the paradigm changed Tuesday, and that means that in order to be an effective force in government, conservatives have to again start listening to liberals, not just brushing them aside.
Katara (anonymous) says…
Dems are desperate and pathetic, always have been, always well be. They have not had a personal conviction between all of them in many, many years. They only want to demonize Republicans...that serves their agenda sufficiently.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And what exactly are you doing now?
Take the log out of your own eye before you mention the speck in your neighbor's eye.
This type of statement does not help our country one bit. Bush wants to work with the Democrats, why don't you? He is finally making an attempt to get into the role of being a uniter, not a divider.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061111/a...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061111/p...
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
Wel sports fans, it appears as the phone survilance will end, and the *new leadership* thinks it is so important they are going to table it for a while.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061111/a...
"...(Pres. Buhs's) once-secret program for wiretapping U.S.-foreign phone calls and computer traffic of suspected terrorists without warrants shows all the signs of not moving ahead, notwithstanding President Bush's request this week that a lame-duck Congress give it to him.
Senate Democrats, emboldened by Election Day wins that put them in control of Congress as of January, say they would rather wait until next year to look at the issue. "I can't say that we won't do it, but there's no guarantee that we're going spend a lot of time on controversial measures," Democratic Whip Richard Durbin of Illinois said Thursday."
roger_o_thornhill (anonymous) says…
"Nuts!"
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
It will take men and women of courage and intelligence to keep the USA and the world safe from terrorists. The fearful and simplistic thinking by asbestos, right_thinker, pilgrim and many in the Bush administration demonstrate lack of courage, knee-jerk reaction, and lack of critical thinking.
The terrorists are counting on people like the above to destroy the USA from within. Our secular democracy is anathema to terrorists, and they delight when their actions cause pillars of the American way of life to be assaulted from within by restriction of rights, torture, and bellicose foreign policy.
right_thinker, asbestos, and pilgrim: you and those like you are (unwittingly) helping the terrorists destroy the American way of life.
Knock it off!
ASBESTOS (anonymous) says…
"It will take men and women of courage and intelligence to keep the USA and the world safe from terrorists."
That leaves you and the majority of the Democratic Party OUT.
HOwever, you Dems need to understand... you have A LOT of new blud dawg dems, in your midst. If you thought the Repubs. were a problem, try to keep those guys in line.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"...demonstrate lack of courage, knee-jerk reaction, and lack of critical thinking."
We will be seeing just how the Desm display all those qualities you give them, (but they do not have).
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
right_thinker,
I'm glad my post gave you a chuckle. I certainly didn't see any rational argument forthcoming.
All I ask is that you and those like you stop assisting the terrorists by destroying the American way of life with restriction of liberties, state-sponsored torture, and warmongering.
This is exactly what the terrorists want. Stop helping them.
xenophonschild (anonymous) says…
It is not only incorrect but downright insulting that conservative right-wing troglodytes on this site assume that only they have some kind of monopoly on patriotism or backbone needed to stand up to terrorists.
They conveniently overlook or ignore the myriad mistakes - 9/11, Iraq, Katrina, assault on science, energy "initiatives," budget fiasco after budget fiasco, DeLay, Abramoff, Foley, Haggard, tax breaks for the wealthy while the middle-class stagnates - that led voters to recently remand Republicans to their traditional minority status in Congress.
Given these failures, it is specious for any conservative on this site to wrap himself in the flag and blubber about how only he and his cohorts can save the country from headbangers-for-Allah. It may be that, while Republicans are more gifted liars and dividers, Democrats are actually smarter and better able to lead than any on this board give them credit for.
Tychoman (anonymous) says…
You know what would be the best icing on the cake? If Pilgrim shut his trap or got bounced.
paladin (anonymous) says…
Drag out your guns, rt! Clean em up. Load em up. Get ready. The end in near. They're coming after you. All the Lefties and the Dems. They want what you have and want to take all of it from you. You should be very fearful and ever watchful and constantly on guard, for they're coming. Protect yourself. Oh, and all your stuff.
You fool.
ksmoderate (anonymous) says…
Oh, I'll take a stab.
Rightthinker says:
"Excuse me, but I believe "9/11" belongs in the Willy J. Clinton column."
That old chestnut.
".....budget fiasco after budget fiasco..." Budgets that your beloved Nancy Pelosi, the "sweet Italian grandmother" voted for."
Really? I wasn't aware.
"Abramoff"
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/st...
Another old chestnut. Funny how voters seemed to think that corruption in D.C. belonged mostly to the republicans this time around.
"Haggard"
What office did he hold, I must have missed it?"
CheeseandRice. Haggard was the president of a large evangelical christian organization, and had Bush's ear on the phone quite often. Or did you not hear that?
"..... while the middle-class stagnates...."
You mean the middle-class that has the highest home ownership in history?"
Regardless, the voters this time around seemed not to care a whole lot if the tax cuts for the wealthiest of Americans gets pulled.
Mkh (anonymous) says…
Rightthinker says:
"Excuse me, but I believe "9/11" belongs in the Willy J. Clinton column."
Oh Please right thinker, please explain this to me. I would love to hear your detailed explanation, so I can howl with laughter well into the evening.
I suppose you are also going to tell me that "the terrorists" attacked us because "they hate freedom". Please entertain me your far reaching knowledge of geo-politics in the Middle East.
right thinker also says:
"Get a grip on reality, far-lefties. These Arabs are part of our life----better get a new perspective."
Ok right thinker, then how come we are killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Persians??? OR do you not even know the difference between the two???? ignorance, the most powerful weapon of the Right.
xenophonschild (anonymous) says…
Bush and his Republicans got hammered by voters frustrated over declining real wages for the suburban middle class and their anger over the government's ongoing tax breaks for the ultra-rich.
Home ownership is nice.
George Tenet and his chief antiterrorist aide Cofer Black tried to warn Shrub's national security advisor - in July of 2001 - that al-Qaeda was planning an attack on America, and was politely brushed off.
Someone already pointed out that Haggard was a heavyweight on the god-squad fruitcakes; one who had Shrub's ear whenever he wanted.
Notice you never mentioned Katrina - or the budget deficit, or the assault on science, or the fact that, while American sergeants and captains tell visitors that Iraqi soldiers have no national identity - they see themselves as belonging more to a tribe or sect (Shiite or Sunni) than a nation; they are in it only for the money; and they desert; refuse to show up; refuse to fight - colonels and generals continue to offer up Rumsfeld's pablum that Iraqi security forces will someday be able to run their own country.
That's Shrub's biggest problem - he's a dumbass. No hatred, just sad frustration that someone who should be competent, someone we need so desperately to be competen, is a blinking idiot.
Mkh (anonymous) says…
Right Thinker,
Most people of Iraq are extremely proud of their Persian heritage and do not consider themselves Arab. It's a completely different culture. But lets get back to your amazing theory of Clinton's guilt in 9/11.
Posted by right_thinker (anonymous) on November 11, 2006 at 5:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Easy mkh, WJC was getting bj's, ignoring intel and bumping elbows with Babs whilst Arabs, thats' right, Arabs, were plotting 9/11. He let OBL go.
Ignoring intel? You mean like ignoring several memos, some with titles such as "Bin Ladin determined to attack in the U.S." No that was Bush Administration, these were the people who held NO meetings about counter terrorism. This is the Amnistration who disbanded the FBI task force assigned to Bin Ladin in the summer of 2001. Every intelligence agency in the world was warning of immediate threats in the US in the summer of 2001 and Bush wouldn't even hold a meeting with his Counter Terrorism Chief.
Yes Clinton was getting bjs right thinker, but he was also allowing the intelligence community to actively monitor and pursure Bin Ladin.
So let me get this straight your blaming Clinton for 9/11 because he was getting bjs in 1996-7???? I'm really confused here. It was September 11, 2001...not '97, '98, '99. In fact it is ridiculous to blame Clinton for not doing anything in those years when the entire city of Washington was stopped for an Impeachment over bjs. Don't get me even started on the question of why do we impeach a President for lying about bjs; but, we have to promise not to impeach a president who lied about WMDs, commited many war crimes, and continues to command the slaughter of an innocent country.
I honestly don't know how you come up with this stuff. Do you lock yourself in a room at night with tapes of Rush Limbaugh playing backwards to listen for hidden messages?
Mkh (anonymous) says…
"Hate freedom"? They hate us, how much more "free" do you want?
Is this supposed to make sense right thinker? Or is this one of those backward messages?
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
Please repudiate my assertion, right_thinker et al., that by undermining American values through degradation of rights, state-sponsored torture, and warmongering that you are helping the terrorists destroy America.
You still don't see that this is what they want. They want intemperate, foolish hot-heads like you to destroy America in order to "save" it.
The religious fundamentalist terrorists hate our secular democracy, and you are helping them destroy it.
Justify your actions to help the terrorists or cease and desist.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
You extremists keep at it, now... it's very entertaining!
Keep yourselves busy while the intelligent moderates--from both sides of the aisle--roll up their sleeves and do the real work.
See you in the funny papers...
Agnosticks
agnostick@excite.com
hockmano (anonymous) says…
I think ole George needs to lay low the next two years and let the democrats run things. He has run this country into a hole long enough. Take some Tylenol P.M. George and I'll call you when it's over!
yourworstnightmare (anonymous) says…
right_thinker,
In the recent spirit of conciliation, I will concede that you might be correct that moderates and liberals do not understand the true threat posed by islamic terrorists.
It is possible that only fundamentalist christians can conceive of what it is like to truly believe in martyrdom, virgins in paradise, and such. I cannot really fathom human action being driven by such factors because I have never really truly believed in religious dogma.
It might take a religious fundamentalist to understand a religious fundamentalist.
PS spare me the crocodile tears.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
yourworstnightmare writes:
"In the recent spirit of conciliation, I will concede that you might be correct that moderates and liberals do not understand the true threat posed by islamic terrorists."
________________________
I think Moderates--including Centrists like myself--certainly *do* understand the threat posed by violent religious extremists (most, though not all, being Islamic).
I think they agree that the War on Terror is necessary, justified, even critical to the survival of democracy.
But I also think they realize that the WoT must be fought prudently, with sound strategy. I think moderates realize that a war can't be fought on "credit cards" (deficit spending); at some point, you actually have to begin to pay for things (taxes, war bonds, other forms of revenue).
I think moderates have a lot less braggadacio and bravado than those who have been in power for the past six years. A moderate president certainly wouldn't have flown onto the deck of a carrier with a smug smile, under a banner reading "mission accomplished!" in 2003, less than 90 days after the invasion.
In fact, while we're at it... I think a prudent, moderate president would've never left Afghanistan until a cadre of Marines was leading a freshly-shaved, pink-bikini-wearing Osama Bin Laden down Pennsylvania Avenue on a dog leash.
I think a moderate president and CIC would've utilized the lighter, quicker, more-efficient military of 2001 to conduct a series of quick, clandestine operations against terrorist organizations. Drop 'em in, let 'em kill a few dozen ragheads, and pull 'em out, before the press can even set up a camera tripod. Don't embed journalists, but give them an open, honest accounting of events.
I think a moderate president would've fought terrorists, rather than wasting time liberating nations. A moderate president would realize that you hand out government contracts to military suppliers, not "nation builders."
A moderate president, upon seeing four American cadavers strung up by their heels from a bridge in Fallujah, would've pulled out every American in 24 hours, then used every American plane to drop every form of conventional bomb and explosive upon that inconsciable city, reducing it a barren, black smudge on the globe. A moderate president would then set up a live broadcast on Al Jazeera, and in broke Arabic, say, "That's 'One'... Care to try for 'Two?'"
Should any of these strategies fail, a moderate president would honestly say, "That was a mistake--we'll try not to do that again." A moderate president would know the TRUE usage and diplomatic weight of a mantra like "Stay the course"... and understand that the less you repeat it, the better.
A moderate president would fill his/her adminstration with good people... using the criteria of "Qualifications first, personal allegiances second"... not the other way around.
I could go on... but you get the idea.
Thanks
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
right_thinker, in a fit of paranoia, frantically scribbles:
"... comes from Lawrence to my house and 10 acres and tries to get water out of a hydrant or steal some food or kill me and take over my house and in the process we get into a shootout and you kill me?"
____________________________________________
Lawrence? Don't you mean... New Orleans?
Funny thing about this, right_thinker... is that I'm going tuck this little exchange away into my "grey matter memory bank." It'll be fun to pull out and reference when you least expect it.
Probably the next time you and/or some other gun-toting wacko-militia-type tries to convice me how everyone needs to have an assault weapon.
Same argument those knuckleheads like to pull out on those occasions... would easily apply now, don't you think?
Or... maybe ol' Ben wasn't really talking about... terrorism...??
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
P.S. Continued over in the other thread...
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
"The state failed to protect citizens and their property. In the absence of security an armed citizenry is a constitutional guarantee. (2nd Amendment)"
____________________________________________
It would be interesting to poll/survey those folks and find out how many of them were good, well-trained hunters and sportsmen, using their hunting rifles and shotguns...
... and how many of them were toting assault rifles to go along with their overblown sense of self.
I'm pigeonholing a bit, here, but I don't put much stock in "doomsday scenarios."
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
xenophonschild (anonymous) says…
It's "martial law," and our state National Guard units would not welcome interference by vigilantes or self-appointed amateurs.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
"Reliance upon the state to protect you is weakness. I recall the New Orleans police department running away from NO. Not doing their jobs and in many cases joining the mobs."
_________________________________________
While it's true that members of the NOPD deserted their posts, and some were even caught on camera taking part in looting... "joining the mobs" is an exaggeration.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/1...
"Switzerland, a country where gun ownership is mandatory has one of the longest established democracies in the world. USA 235 years."
__________________________________________
Also some of the highest suicide rates--roughly 50% higher than the United States, by some reports.
http://www.mcdl.org/Stats/gnpsuicide.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...
http://www.gca.org.za/facts/briefs/10...
I am not against gun ownership; I do question the logic of a society "armed to the teeth."
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
ksmoderate (anonymous) says…
It's sad to read that some on this thread think Pelosi wants to get rid of the 2nd Amendment.
To those folks: Do you really believe that she wants to trash the whole amendment, as in taking away every american's right to own a gun? If so, you've been drinking way too much Kool Aid. Don't confuse your lack of rational thought with her stance on regulating the gun industry to keep assault weapons, etc. under control.
The debate on gun regulation is a good one. Don't demean it by not using your brain!
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
ksmoderate is just countering some of the same extremist rhetoric parroted by others here. I welcome ksmoderate's comments and participation.
I believe the concern for Pelosi is more a scare tactic, than anything. Last Tuesday's election stripped the cogs of the RPM; Pelosi is a new gear in the works, something they hope will give Americans something more to worry about.
I would like to see the Democrats choose somebody more moderate for SotH--there's still hope.
Something interesting...
http://www.house.gov/tauscher/ndc/mem...
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Culture_Warrior:
You love guns. I get it now. You love guns, perhaps even more than life itself.
Message received, loud and clear.
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
We already *are* part of the global community... up until the USA relocates to the moon, or Mars...
I wouldn't mind seeing more Libertarians, Reform Party, Centrist Coalition etc. But until one of these controls a majority of Congress, there's not much that can be done. Work with what's available... and right now, that means moderate Democrats and Republicans.
It's overlooked that the *true* breakdown of the Senate in January will be:
50 Democrats
49 Republicans
01 Independents
Joe Lieberman is the wild card; somehow, I doubt he will vote with Democrats 100% of the time. Cheney will probably cast more tie-breaking votes than we think.
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Yeah, I knew what you meant. And yeah, it *is* funny.
"One global government" = "One big paranoid joke"
That sort of thing has been tried numerous times, throughout the centuries. Last time anyone got even remotely close was @ 64 years ago.
I remember all this when U.S. soldiers worked with the United Nations. Next up: Nicolae Carpathia. Yyyaaawwwwwwwnnnnn.
Well, time for lunch. Rehydrated beef stew again. At this rate, I should be done with all my Y2K Apocalypse survivalist leftovers by early 2011 or so.
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
ksmoderate (anonymous) says…
I certainly wish to discuss. What I don't want is the completely asinine argument that Big Bad Nancy is going to take away your guns.
She's not going to take away your guns.
There will never be a politician who will take away your guns. It is a right guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment.
Period.
Sheesh.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
couranna1, you may find these interesting...
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Buddha-Pa...
http://www.amazon.com/Living-Buddha-C...
http://www.amazon.com/Going-Home-Jesu...
http://www.amazon.com/invests-Buddha-...
http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/buddhist...
Yeah, the bumper sticker don't mean much... but it's cool!
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Tychoman (anonymous) says…
Not another stupid gun debate.
Nancy can't take away your guns? Pity.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Yeah, afraid so, Tychoman. Seems the gun "culture" is lockin' & loadin'...
Where's Rayford Steele when you need him? :p
Thanks
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Wilbur_Nether (anonymous) says…
Agnostick, Lieberman is going back to the Democratic party and is assured of his seniority by the Democratic caucus. Although I think you're right that he won't vote 100% Democrat party line, his return to the Democrats will give them a 51-49 majority. http://www.cnn.com/2006/politics/11/1...
Tychoman (anonymous) says…
Aaaaaand thinker's begging to be bounced--again.
Mkh (anonymous) says…
If anyone has the sundance channel I recommend turning it on right now. They are airing "Occupation:Dreamland"; a very honest documentary of what life is like for the troops on the ground, and what their day to day activities and attitudes are like. Its also available at Libery Hall to rent. I also recommend Bagdad:ER.
jonas (anonymous) says…
"Posted by right_thinker (anonymous) on November 13, 2006 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I forgot to address this way back in the thread. Nightmare, not only am I saying Democrats being elected will help their cause, the terrorists themselves have said it!!!
Don't you ever read the news??
My lord, the idiocy."
Indeed.
Because if you can't trust the word of a suicide-bombing terrorist, who can you trust?
werekoala (anonymous) says…
By the way:
Has anyone noticed a deeply hidden sense of glee about the republicans since the election?
As in, "woo-hoo! We can go back to blaming Democrats again fro the failure to get anything done!"
Rush/Rove has to be thrilled. No longer does he have to fill three hours a day trying to explain how the only thing preventing Republican control of the House, Senate, Executive branch and Judicial appointments from achieving the perfect world is a few liberal college professors, Air America, and a 10-year-old-BJ!
Now he can get back to what he was good at: hours-long rambling discourses on liberal desires to take your guns, abort your fetuses, turn your children gay, and reject the One True God!
He's got to be as happy as if he were back on Oxycontin.
jonas (anonymous) says…
werekoala: I must admit, I've thought the same thing quite frequently. My favorite was when Cheney blamed specifically Kerry and Edwards for the failure of the ANWR drilling bill. John Stewart did a great line on it.
"Wait a minute! You control the executive branch, the House and the Senate, and you let these two yahoos stop you?! What kind of evil empire are you guys?!"
jonas (anonymous) says…
"Posted by right_thinker (anonymous) on November 15, 2006 at 6:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Who mentioned Willys' bj? What I'm saying is basically:
"What comes around, goes around". And Repubs have caught nine kinds of hell from Dems since the first Wednesday in November 2000; and it has never let up."
Shenanigans! Bush and republicans caught hell, due to the perceived problems with elections, right up to Sept. 11th. After 9/11 he/they was the golden child, and could do no wrong for virtually all involved (although, I must admit, I still held him in personal dislike) and those good feelings lasted for almost 2 years, right up until he started talking about invading Iraq. (fuzzy on the actual timeline) That was when everybody started to turn on him.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
werekoala, your 9:06pm post was a great way to start my Wednesday! thanks!
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
P.S. Somehow, I don't think Rush puts much stock in the "One True God"; otherwise, why would he have three divorces under his belt?
jonas (anonymous) says…
Wow, what a great evasion into a totally different topic! I'm going to start calling you the Unartful Dodger.
jonas (anonymous) says…
Are we? I thought we were talking about how the entirity of last six years were spent bashing republicans.
As for what little content you actually had in your post, I'm afraid I just don't see what the difference would be if you changed "dems" to "repubs" and the names to correct party affiliation.
Believe me, I don't care for democrats at all. I'm just not suffering under the delusion that the republicans offer a viable alternative. That's why I'm pleased with the current state of affairs, because it means that our government will spend at least the next two years, and hopefully more, in a complete gridlock. It's the best way to minimize the potential damage that can be done.
jonas (anonymous) says…
http://www.isochronic.com/images/cat%...
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
"You guys voted for them, better start figuring out how to spin away THEIR corruption."
Yep.
Meanwhile... back in reality...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/politics/11/1...
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
Godot (anonymous) says…
Charles Rangle, democrat, now the ascending leader of the appropriations committee, has restated his long-held intent to bring before Congress (for the third time)a bill that would require all youths to spend at least two years of their lives in public service.
You asked for it, you got it.
You youths had better hope that GWB vetoes Rangle's bill. Otherwise, you can expect to spend two years of the most productive time of your lives in slavery to the Democrat lead government of the USofA.
Be sorry for what you wished for.
Godot (anonymous) says…
Here is a message for Rangel: Why single out our youth? Why not require everyone over the age of 18 to serve time as a slave of the government? Make everyone over the age of 18 prove that he or she has served a minimum of two years in captive service of the government? If no proof can be produced, then require that individual to serve a minimum of two years of government service as a peon, at low wage, at the mercy of deployment -- including yourself and all your privileged colleagues.
Tychoman (anonymous) says…
Godot this sounds like your kind of thing, stop b!tching.
Wow. One bill. Uno. Single. Like that's going to sway the majority of the country that voted Democrat to think they were wrong. "Holy crap, one bill? we were wrong! save us, republicans!"
Lunatic.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Geez, C_W, I guess you used your gun when you should've used your Bible...
Or... you used your Bible when you should've used your gun...???
Hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm...
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