Lawrence and Douglas County

Lawrence and Douglas county

Protesters take to streets

Lawrence, Emporia crowds oppose bill

May 2, 2006

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Immigrant workers in Lawrence and elsewhere across the state and nation protested proposed immigration reform Monday, taking the day off work and snarling projects at some local businesses.

"They just didn't show up for work," said Jan Hassler, who works for Lawrence-based Mesler Roofing. "It'll put us back a day or two."

Hassler and other construction firms spent Monday explaining to customers why job sites stood vacant, as protesters hit the streets - as part of "A Day Without Immigrants" - to oppose House Resolution 4437, which would impose tough new penalties on undocumented workers.

An hour down the Kansas Turnpike, in Emporia, organizers said more than 1,500 people gathered at the Lyon County Fairgrounds to protest the proposal - offering two hours of Spanish-language chants and translated speeches proclaiming the rights of immigrants in America.

"We hope the president and the Congress see how much people we've got, how much the United States needs all these people," said Maria Landeros, a longtime Emporia resident who immigrated to the U.S. from Mexico more than 30 years ago.

The Emporia protest took place in sight of the Tyson meatpacking plant, which has helped draw thousands of migrant workers to town - and which also has created a backlash in the community.

A second group of protesters, in favor of tougher immigration laws, set up shop a few hundred feet from the larger demonstration.

Amanda Logsdon, an Emporia native who organized the counterdemonstration, estimated her crowd at 75 people.

In Lawrence, more than three dozen people gathered downtown at noon to collect signatures on petitions against the legislation, then marched to the office of U.S. Rep. Dennis Moore, D-Kan., to deliver the demand. Later in the day, demonstrators had a candlelight vigil at City Hall.

"I'm in full support of immigrants, legal or otherwise, working in this country," said C.J. Brune, a veteran community activist, who attended the noon function.

"Whether or not we have numbers here tonight," she said, "we know that the majority of Americans share our side."

What 4437 says

  • Here are some features of H.R. 4437, the U.S. House resolution at the center of nationwide protests Monday:
  • ¢ People who assist illegal immigrants in entering the country could be subject to prison terms of up to five years. If the smuggling was done for financial gain, they could receive up to 20 years.
  • ¢ People who hire 10 or more undocumented workers during a year are subject to a fine or imprisonment.
  • ¢ Construction would begin on a 700-mile fence along the U.S.-Mexico border to shut out immigrants.
  • ¢ The "catch and release" policy for non-Mexican immigrants would end. Instead, they would be held in detention until deportation.
  • Source: Associated Press; thomas.loc.gov

'Full support'

The day's protests involved more than a day off from work.

Steve Lynch, owner of Lynch Construction, said he noticed some absences Monday, but he understood the protest was an important event for many immigrants.

"If I was on a really tight schedule, I might miss a day," Lynch said. "But I understand it. This is their holiday."

About 100 people gathered Monday night outside City Hall for a candlelight vigil while listening to pro-immigrant speeches from community activists.

Some told the story of American immigration 200-plus years ago, saying that many political leaders have lost sight of this heritage.

"I hope people realize immigrants' important contributions to our community," Lawrence resident Lydia León said.

Rallies peaceful

In Emporia, Logsdon blamed fears of violence for dampening attendance at her protest against illegal immigration. There were no notable incidents, as officials kept the two protests separated by the length of a football field, staffed by police, sheriff's deputies and troopers from the Kansas Highway Patrol.

One of the anti-immigration demonstrators held a sign: "Wetbacks go home. Pay back our taxes."

The man identified himself as Bob Edwards, 64, of Emporia - and he didn't care if he caused offense.

"So what?" he said. "They're not here legally anyway."

Nearby, however, Indy Dambro offered a more subdued protest, noting that his family had fled the chaos of Eastern Europe in the years following World War II, then became naturalized citizens.

"I don't think (citizenship) ought to be given away," Dambro said.

'Si se puede!'

At the pro-immigrant rally, though, speakers resisted the idea they'd been given anything, saying they'd worked hard to earn a living and respect in America.

"We would like to ask the Congress of the United States to construct an immigration law that is just, because we have come here to work and cooperate with the country in which we are living," said the Rev. Matias Coria, pastor of a largely Hispanic Baptist church in Emporia, in a speech delivered in Spanish.

Between speakers, the crowd repeatedly chanted "Si se puede!" - "Yes we can!" - which has become a slogan for pro-immigrant rallies across the country.

But Heather Delgado, an Emporia teacher, sang the national anthem in English and the crowd, carrying a mix of American and Mexican flags, sang along and cheered as she finished.

"Most immigrants I know are hardworking people who just want opportunities," said the Rev. Jeanette Cavazon, who ministers at Centro Christiano de Emporia. "Can we not have compassion on honest, hardworking, beautiful people who have come to help our country?"

Comments

Kelly Powell 8 years, 11 months ago

What pisses me off is I've caught a couple of bosses here in lawrence using illegal labor in a restaraunt....That may be the norm elsewhere, but lawrence allready pays most of their service industry slave wages as it is. An article stated a few tyson plants had to shut down due to the protest.....twenty years ago a job at meat packing plant was considered a decent job to be proud of......I guess it was to expensive to outsource so they did the next best thing.

Ember 8 years, 11 months ago

Gee, let's all get together and protest for the right to thumb our nose at the laws of the country we want to run away to...

If you obey the laws to get in, I have no problems with you on that issue. If you can't obey the law, then you should be dropped off on the other side of the border and threatened with incarceration for 10-15 years and another deportation if you are ever caught here again illegally.

I don't mind Mexicans... I despise border jumpers.

Lonestar1 8 years, 11 months ago

BACKLASH--America is a nation of immigrants, as such we have a common language, ENGLISH. We have a common flag, The STARS & STRIPES. We have a common anthem that we sing in our common language!

What I have a problem with, is someone who came her illegally, who have lived here for several years, made no effort to learn our language, expect the taxpayers to educate and provide medical care for their families. Then walk off the job to wave a foreign flag and demand to be allowed to continue breaking our laws. It that is how they feel, let them go back to where ever they came from.

I support those who are trying to become Americans, trying to fit in and contribute to our common culture. The laws need to change to help folks with these efforts. That isjust doing the right thing for the right reason.

txgirl 8 years, 11 months ago

There are already places where white people are the minority "rightthinker" it all depends on where you live.

Staci Dark Simpson 8 years, 11 months ago

I am for people coming here if they obey the rules to get in. I don't think the rules for citizenship are that hard. Border jumping should be illegal. Citizens are not supposed to work under the table so why should anyone else be able to. I just don't see all the fuss, just seems like a good reason to protest something.

blessed3x 8 years, 11 months ago

It's very simple, $100,000 fines for the EMPLOYER for each illegal he is caught employing and no public school education for illegals. Ease the legal routes for naturalization and put the national guard on the border.

How much more can we take. Each illegal child costs us thousands to send to school. Illegals are recieving free health care and aid. I'm all for generosity, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. There are 12 million illegals now. What will that number be in another ten years? 20? 30? How much can this society be expected to bear? Illegal workers keep down wages and benefits in labor positions. Illegals drain the public services of funds and resources. Even if amnesty were to be given, the taxes generated would not even begin to cover what it costs the taxpayers to support these people.

Since we do offer tens of thousands of dollars in aid and education to these illegals and their families, how are we thanked. Protests under a foreign flag in our streets and the boycott of our products in their homeland:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/3828566.html

...and the committing of crimes in our streets:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html

Some of these people genuinely want a better life and are willing to live under the our rules and be productive members of society. I welcome them with open arms and ask our government to ease their path to legal status. To the rest, they are a problem that must be dealt with, and by dealt with I mean shipped home, behind a secured border.

Linda Endicott 8 years, 11 months ago

In order for your signature on a petition to be valid, don't you have to be a registered voter? In order to be a registered voter, don't you have to be a legal citizen?

Even if you're an American citizen, your signature on a petition is useless if you're not a registered voter.

I wonder how many of those signatures they received were from illegal immigrants, and, as such, useless.

I don't care what country you come from. If you want to be an American so badly, then go through the legal process, no matter how long it takes, and respect the laws of the country that you claim to love so much.

People who truly want to become American citizens will do whatever it takes, LEGALLY, to do so. Just because it's difficult doesn't mean it can't be done. Nothing worth having is ever easy.

Do all these people think we should have no limits whatsoever on how many people each year can become legal citizens? If there were no limits, how long would it be before this country was bloated beyond repair, filled to overflowing with people it cannot hope to take care of?

We're already far too close to that...

audvisartist 8 years, 11 months ago

Wow I actually agree with Marion on something! I never thought I'd see that day! Being 6th+ generation Mexican-American (for lack of a better term), I'm pretty divided on this issue even though I lack the 1st or 2nd generation perspective that those marching in the streets have.

On one side, I've seen the 3rd world face of Mexico close up and first hand, and it's not pretty. I've seen 2 year olds begging on the street, filthy from head to toe, with no parents to be found. On the other hand, I can also see how people that get into the United States illegally are breaking our immigration laws (and no matter how much you think no one should be 'illegal,' the fact is the laws are there for a reason.) Marion nailed it right on the head when he said, "I also love the USA and recognise that it can handle only so much." and "We must draw a line but we cannot deprive of the American Dream who have struggled so hard to achieve and become a part of it." A way can and should be found, but I'm not so sure our current government officials (and no, not just those at the very top) are capable of finding a reasonable solution and implementing it.

I personally think that we should fix the problems within our own borders before even thinking about fixing problems for everybody else, but this is a whole different story in a whole other chapter.

roadrunner 8 years, 11 months ago

I am not for Illegal immigration in any way, but didn't our own government aid in the problem? Should we have not done a better job enforcing the laws we already have in place. It seems to me that if we had nipped it in the bud years ago, we wouldn't be in this situation today. What's the answer? The thing I worry about the most is how this situation is turning into a racial one in many cases. For me, it has absolutely nothing to do with race and everything to do with playing by the rules. I have to abide by the laws of other countries when I'm there, so why does everyone think it's OK to push our laws aside?

Linda Endicott 8 years, 11 months ago

Mel Blanc died, and no matter how valiantly his son tried to take his place and do the voices, it just wasn't the same.

Besides, Speedy Gonzales wouldn't be PC now.

neopolss 8 years, 11 months ago

It seems, that the answer would be to get them started as being LEGAL then, so that you can tax these individuals. Sending them all back does nothing but cost us money. Keeping them means we can recoup our losses. That's the view in the business sense.

From another view, we didn't always have closed borders, and our country IS the land of oppurtunity. We should be welcoming these individuals, and showing the world that the US is a loving nation. There's plenty of room here. These individuals came here because this country gives them a chance at a good life.

Despise border crossers? Please! Honestly, shut up already. These people sometimes have to wait YEARS to get a shot at coming here. If your family was living in dirthole conditions, do you really think you would wait years to get to a better place? You are not being honest to yourself to say you would. Any parent knows better. There's plenty of room. The US has states of open land. It's not running out anytime soon.

Hateful, hateful, hateful, and with no real reason to hate. No real facts to support it. Learn to speak english? Did any of you learn to speak Cherokee? I'm thinking we're all illegal immigrants by those terms.

Jeteras 8 years, 11 months ago

Instead of spending billions of dollars on a war in a country on the other side of the earth that has their own friggen problems why not send our troops to our neighboring countries! There is no reason MEXICO should not have the same qualities of life and economic structure that we all have?! Look at the areas around Cancun for crying out loud, there is more tourism dollars there than there is in VEGAS. It would not take much to turn Mexico into a Happy place, sheesh...

xenophonschild 8 years, 11 months ago

The illegals here are pretty much a done deal; not much can be done about them.

But our leaders, the paralyzed lollipops - Republicans and Democrats - who bumble and bungle around Washington, D.C., had better do something to stem the tide . . . and soon.

How long before our Islamic enemies use our lax southern borders to sneak into the country and attack us? What if they're here already? Dams, bridges, nuclear power plants - our infrastructure is vulnerable and the threat is real.

I have nothing against Mexicans - they work hard, their women are beautiful, and even the ones in the joint had honor and were good convicts - but our political leaders have to do more, fast, to contain our borders . . . and not just the southern. All of them.

xenophonschild 8 years, 11 months ago

I apologize for agreeing with 75x55. It's one of those weird accidents of nature, like when cats and dogs play with each other.

assistant1234 8 years, 11 months ago

What would an actual day without illegal immigrants look like?

"...if illegal aliens all took the day off and were truly invisible for one day, there would be some plusses along with the mild inconveniences.

Hospital emergency rooms across the southwest would have about 20-percent fewer patients, and there would be 183,000 fewer people in Colorado without health insurance.

OBGYN wards in Denver would have 24-percent fewer deliveries and Los Angeles's maternity-ward deliveries would drop by 40 percent and maternity billings to Medi-Cal would drop by 66 percent.

Youth gangs would see their membership drop by 50 percent in many states, and in Phoenix, child-molestation cases would drop by 34 percent and auto theft by 40 percent.

In Durango, Colorado, and the Four Corners area and the surrounding Indian reservations, the methamphetamine epidemic would slow for one day, as the 90 percent of that drug now being brought in from Mexico was held in Albuquerque and Farmington a few hours longer. According to the sheriff of La Plata County, Colorado, meth is now being brought in by ordinary illegal aliens as well as professional drug dealers.

On a Day Without an Illegal Immigrant, thousands of workers and small contractors in the construction industry across Colorado would have their jobs back, the jobs given to illegal workers because they work for lower wages and no benefits. "

Quote from "A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant" by Congressman Tom Tancredo, Colorado, in the National Review Online www.nationalreview.com.

mom_of_three 8 years, 11 months ago

Ditto audvisartist, ditto neopolss!!

Couldn't say it better myself, so I won't.

KsTwister 8 years, 11 months ago

Companies who hire them are at fault. Constructure workers have seen in Lawrence their wages drop because the Contractor wants more in his pocket. Shut their doors and send them back. America,this America can only take so much. Ask the hospital how many times they had to eat the bill. With the working class hurting already,illegals just put the salt in the wound. They could have applied for citizenship in 1996 for the second time and did not. Therefore, they have knowingly broke the law.....and this country's wallet.

xenophonschild 8 years, 11 months ago

Talk is fine, but everyone on this site should contact your congressman and let him know where you stand.

We are all adults; we've learned to accept reality. The 12+ million illegals here are probably here to stay and we have to adapt to that.

But Congress has to stop the flow. This situation cannot be allowed to go on unchecked.

Call or email your congressman. Have your friends call and/or email.

And watch who does what in Washington. Remember them when it comes time to vote in November. (I can't vote, yet, but I'm certainly going to watch closely. Dennis Moore is our standard-bearer and I hope he doesn't let us down.)

pinballqueen 8 years, 11 months ago

I have no problem with legal immigrants, and the issue is with ILLEGAL Immigrants. I have no issues with wanting to be an American, it is a great country.

What I have a big problem with is watching hundreds of thousands illegal and legal immigrants wave the mexican flag and not only sing the National Anthem in spanish, but alter the words to MY nations anthem. According the man who owns the recording studio in which the song was recorded, they didn't do anything different, "because the original was taken from the British, they were into guns and fireworks". So here is a man on national news telling the world he altered the words to the National Anthem, AND showing the fact he knows nothing of the history of it?

Pictures of children wrapped in the American flag, and I also watched on the news as a group of young men carrying the Mexican flag pointed to it and held it up-not the American flag.

Mostly I am NOT convinced these illegal immigrants want to be AMERICANS. I think they want to be Mexicans, living in America. They are showing disrepect for the American flag, showing disrepect for American citizens by altering the National Anthem and singing it in spanish.

Do I hate them? No. Am I angry? Yes, because I love my country, my friends and family who have shed blood for my country. I wear my American flag on my sleeve with pride, and watching illegals waving the Mexican flag(and where was the American flag in the first rounds of protests?)on American soil makes me angry. This is not assimilation, these acts show to me that there is no desire to become an American, but to make America fit their ideals.

On a lighter note, I realized yesterday that this strategy could possibly work to legalize marijuana. When hundreds of thousands criminals(and yes, they are in the country illegally)gather and no one gets arrested.....it's just a thought.

KsTwister 8 years, 11 months ago

Moore and Ryun have done well. Brownback and Roberts needs to go.Call them,they still believe in blanket amnesty for almost 20 million estimated from last years study. You can fax,email or write letters......and I am wearing out this keyboard because they are slow learners. Senators of the 109th Congress

Brownback, Sam- (R - KS)
303 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510 (202) 224-6521 Web Form: brownback.senate.gov/CMEmailMe.cfm

Roberts, Pat- (R - KS) 109 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510 (202) 224-4774 Web Form: roberts.senate.gov/e-mail_pat.html

ModSquadGal 8 years, 11 months ago

Pinballqueen: Brilliant post. I couldn't have said it better.

Pilgrim: Perfect quote for the situation.

If I were to move to Germany, I wouldn't expect them to all speak English, provide me with free services (and educate my children for free), allow me to wave the American flag in their faces and generally do nothing to respect their country; a country where I had CHOSEN to move. Why is it different in America? Is it just because we have got this moniker of "Land of Opportunity" or "Melting Pot?" ALL of us were originally immigrants here. But we have all BECOME LEGAL Americans and we work, live, spend, pay taxes and support this country. Now our laws need to reflect our critical need to take responsibility for our OWN people.

Have we gotten SO lazy in our society that we are willing to put up with this drain on our national lifeline for some cheap labor? Have we lost that much pride in the American workforce?

It's really quite simple. If you come here to have a better life, LIVE A BETTER LIFE. Don't just come here (as an ILLEGAL) and sponge off the system, demand equal rights and treatment and then spit in the faces of the very people who have been making your existence possible. It's WRONG.

paladin 8 years, 11 months ago

Has anyone thought of the possibility that the recent focus of attention by the public on illegal immigrants and high gas prices has been designed and orchestrated by those in power as a diversion and/or distraction from ongoing events in the Middle East? Or, is this just craziness on my part?

lunacydetector 8 years, 11 months ago

no illegals OR no burritos

the choice is yours

bankboy119 8 years, 11 months ago

I still know Iran wants to blow us all off of the face of the earth. What's new?

bearded_gnome 8 years, 11 months ago

In order for your signature on a petition to be valid, don't you have to be a registered voter? In order to be a registered voter, don't you have to be a legal citizen?

Even if you're an American citizen, your signature on a petition is useless if you're not a registered voter.

I wonder how many of those signatures they received were from illegal immigrants, and, as such, useless.

I don't care what country you come from. If you want to be an American so badly, then go through the legal process, no matter how long it takes, and respect


Identity fraud and identity theft are hugely rampant among the illegal immigrants. how many of these signatures you're asking about were not their real names?
is your name on one of these petitions right now???


and, because of the identity theft/fraud problem, in mexifornia the rate of all other crimes property/violent is much higher among illegals; they think they are not identifiable so they have a free ride to commit more crime. and, as pointed out above, many of them are drug runners, and other criminals. but most of all, by violating our immigration laws, they ALREADY are criminals! but the official line of the Democratic party: "we must not criminalize these" illegal aliens. huh?

txgirl 8 years, 11 months ago

pinballqueen

I am Mexican-American born in the U.S. waving a Mexican flag means that I am proud to be Mexican-American living in the U.S. That doesn't mean that when you are American you have to forget and hide where you are from, that is the whole point of America is your free to show who you are and where you are from, and the struggle that people have to go through to show that. And I'm sure that it is not only pure Americans that have died for this country so save the "Yes, because I love my country, my friends and family who have shed blood for my country" because there are a lot of Mexican-Americans and other types of cultures that have shed blood too.

bankboy119 8 years, 11 months ago

txgirl,

Refer to Pilgrim's 8:50 post. You're either American, or you're Mexican. If you were born in the US, you're actually only American. If you still want to be Mexican, go back to Mexico. My family descended from Europe, I'm not waving a Czech, German, or Irish flag. I was born in the US, it makes me an American.

formerlyKS 8 years, 11 months ago

What part of "illegal" do people not understand?

The US allows, lawfully, some 700,000 people a year to become Americans. There is a process. What the Mexicans are doing is simply circumventing that process (it is like getting cut in front of at the lunch line in school). It is a slap in the face for those who have gone through proper channels to secure legal status. We already reward the border-hoppers through our social service programs, whuch, ladies and gentlemen, you are paying for through your employment taxes. Shortly after college, I had the opportunity to work for Social Security and saw just how many illegals and their children qualified for food stamps, money, and health benefits far superior than my own as a legal employee. Many of these people would wind up in jail, get out, and the first place they would head to was the Social Security office to pick up their "paycheck."

Living in California, you realize how much this country is changing...for the worse. When that ugly Mexican flag is flying next to the Stars and Stripes at PUBLIC buildings (i.e, libraries, city hall, churches, etc.) and half the people around you can't speak the language which the rest of the country assimilated to for the last 200 years, you really start believing that the whole of illegal immigration has to be stopped. You'll see it in Lawrence too...Garden City is knocking at your door, then you'll see what it is really like living in a 3rd world s***hole!

txgirl 8 years, 11 months ago

Yes I am American, but i'm from Mexican descent, both my parents were born in Mexico came to the U.S. and got their citizenship. I'm American but I'm Mexican, which I call Mexican-American. We celebrate both American holidays as well as Mexican holidays. Going to Mexico I'm still American. If someone asks me what am I, where am I from I'd say Texas born and raised, and I'm Mexican!

bankboy119 8 years, 11 months ago

No, you are not Mexican. It's simple, born in America = American. If you want to be Mexican, go back home. "Mexicans" and Texans are not the same. We won the war, Texas is part of America.

txgirl 8 years, 11 months ago

I know I am American, I'm proud of both being born in AMERICA and being from MEXICAN descent. why would people ask me what I am if they can't tell just by looking at me that I am American. Because I am from Mexican parents so therefore I have to state that I'm American but from Mexican descent, its easier to say Mexican and yet its still understood that it means "oh you are American but from Mexican descent". People automatically asume that if you are white you are American, which is not alwasy the case, but its just the way people are. They expect me to say I'm from Mexico.

xenophonschild 8 years, 11 months ago

The reason the wind blows in Oklahoma is . . . because Texas sucks!

(Been waiting a long time to get that one off). If you're born and raised here, you're American, period. Get over it.

Call, email your congressman; tell them to stop the flow!

formerlyKS 8 years, 11 months ago

Don't be naive to think that Lawrence's "high" home prices will somehow be a barrier to keeping the illegal contingent, and all the criminal activity that follows, out. If they can afford $600K homes in Cali, they can certainly afford $200K homes in Lawrence.

Imagine being a property owner (as I was here in California before I sold) with an overpriced house next door filled with a dozen illegals partying all night, pissing on your lawn, lowriding pick-up trucks parked on their (and sometimes your) lawn, and police that won't enforce basic noise/property ordinances because they are hispanic and don't want to be sued for discrimination. Like I said, Garden City is knocking at your door...just give it 10 or 15 years.

audvisartist 8 years, 11 months ago

txgirl... I happen to prefer the term chicano.

ModSquadGal 8 years, 11 months ago

Txgirl: I don't think anyone is saying you should NOT be proud of your heritage. The issue is that illegal aliens are not applying that same pride to being AMERICAN. If they were, they would do whatever it takes to be LEGAL, CONTRIBUTING members of our society, instead of mooching and ungrateful. Waving the Mexican flag is not offensive of its own volition, but when it is done as a slap in the face to the millions of Americans who work their BUTTS off to support this country (financially, politically, and in every other way), it is completely unacceptable.

Rationalanimal 8 years, 11 months ago

The one big conclusion that can be drawn from the big "nationwide" protests is that the earth didn't stop rotating around the sun just because illegal aliens decide to take a vacation for the day and demand a reward for illegal conduct. Folks, the sovereign USA didn't come to its knees. Consequently, the very opposite point the "yes we can break your laws" crowd was made: we don't need you for our survivial. That's because this country was principally built on the sweat of legal citizens who kept the law.

It is insulting beyond the bounds of logic for a class of people to come to this country illegally and then demand that we give them citizenship or else they will hurt the USA financially. Sorry, the USA does not negotiate on those terms. The fact is, all the illegal aliens have done is to wake the senses of the majority of Americans. The more you rail and attempt to trash our laws, the swifter and heavier the indignation you stand to bring down the laws of this country upon your heads. My advice is to show some contritition for coming here illegally and attempt to work out a solution that demonstrates you actually want to be part of America. As it is, your brandishing the Mexican flag, trashing the dignity of our national anthem, creating maps showing Texas annexed with Mexico, and telling us Pancho Villa was some great guy suggests the illegal's don't desire to assimilate as America citizens but desire to drastically transform the culture of America. Those things are incompatible with becoming an American citizen.

As long as there are blue-blooded Americans with a drop of blood in us, we will resist you intellectually, legally, and physically to protect the America that has shed God's grace on this land. And no, the resistance isn't predicate on the fact that your skin is brown. It wouldn't matter if you were brown, black, pink, green, or white. The issue is your breaking the laws of this country and then demanding under veiled threats that we change them to accomodate you.

No American contests the fact that a majority of us have roots in immigration. Such an argument is irrelevant and is a smoke screen attempting to mask a deficient argument. The fact is, there is wisdom and interest in the Sovereign regulating the influx of immigrants to this country, because assimilation takes time. Proper assimilation is in the interest of immigrants coming to this country, as a good number of bona fide immigrants will agree.

The bottom line is, if your illegal and you want to stay here, the best chance you've got is to start by keeping our laws instead of demanding we change them or else. Your making your situation worse by attempting to trash our laws. NO, you can't trash our laws.

djazz 8 years, 11 months ago

I'm tired of people - even though they were born here, saying they are "Mexican" American. If you want to wave another flag use your College flag. The Stars and Stripes is the flag of this country. NOT the green and white.

And yes, flood the congressmen with these concerns. Almost every post on this issue feels the same way. NO ILLEGALS! Do it the correct way!

I've been to Mexico as well, and I've seen the cardboard shantys. That's not this country's problem.

kcwarpony 8 years, 11 months ago

I was born here and I'm an American but I'm also an enrolled tribal member of a federally recognized tribe. I have dual citizenship. I wave my tribal flag proudly. For me, my tribe comes first. Does not make me any less of an American.

My ancestors allowed the first illegal immigrants to stay here and looked what happen to us. They came here demanding this and that, waving their flags and singing their songs, too.

I'm waiting for one of the illegals to say they discovered America!

pinballqueen 8 years, 11 months ago

txgirl: I am NOT saying to ignore your heritage, or anyone's for that matter. It the great aspect of the "melting pot". We bring together, united as Americans, our various cultures that make our country great. My relatives who shed blood for this country were Irish, Scottish, British, and German. I am proud, but I am an American. My fiance's grandparents arrived from Poland, but they too assimilated with pride. His father, an American of Polish decent, fought for us in the Vietnam War. The idea is that we, citizens of the US, unite for the common good of our people, our country, and our democracy.

I've managed to email all my senators and reps today!

Linda Endicott 8 years, 11 months ago

bearded_gnome: yes, I saw on TV that a lot of illegals are using the SS numbers of real citizens (without their knowledge, of course) and of dead people in order to get jobs. Creating fake identities for people is a thriving business in this country, it seems.

Txgirl: if you were born in this country, you are an American. Yes, you are of Mexican descent. But that doesn't make you a Mexican. It doesn't mean you can't acknowledge and celebrate the cultures of both countries. But as an American, I would expect you to wave an American flag. Not one from some other country. That gives the impression, valid or not, that you consider yourself Mexican above all else, or that you value your Mexican heritage more than being American.

Most of my family came here from Germany. My great-grandparents couldn't speak a word of English. My grandfather could speak both German and English. My father spoke only English, but could recognize some German phrases and terms. I speak only English, and do not know a word of German. I know little about German culture, yet I'm proud that I'm of German descent. But I don't refer to myself as German-American. This is what is meant by assimilation.

In the old days, families tried to assimilate as quickly as possible. Why would you want to move to another country and live there for the rest of your life if you have no intention or interest in changing yourself so you fit into the culture?

Don't we have enough ways to segregate ourselves already? Why create more? Why should we focus on our differences, rather than our similarities?

Rationalanimal 8 years, 11 months ago

All this talk on this forum is wasted breath unless legitimate American citzens voice how strongly we feel about this issue, and that we don't want gaining American citizenship to be a matter of demanding amnesty in spanish. Call or email the Kansas Senators and House Reps today. Then email all your friends and family and encourage them to do the same thing. The media, reliving the glory days of 1960 civil disobedience are trying to paint the picture that a billion people are on the illegal alien side. If you believe that amnesty is a bad idea, tell your elected representative. Do it now.

ePixie29 8 years, 11 months ago

As much as I can see the many sides of this issue and the many ways that these protests affected people, what I'm most upset about is the blatant racist/ethnist/xenophobic comments of people, not just posted here, but said aloud for all to hear!

I agree with crazyks that we have enough ways to segregate from, discriminate against and belittle one another. Here's what it really boils down to - we are all people, just people, trying to do the best we can for ourselves, our families, and those we care about.

Most of the people who currently live in the US have ancestors who were immigrants to this country.

So, xenophobes - examine thyself!

BorderRat 8 years, 11 months ago

The fact that people, illegally or not in this country, can walk our streets in protest is one of the things that makes the United States so great. By setting foot on our soil, you are given the same rights as our citizens. It's a shame that if the same thing was done in Mexico, you would be rounded up as a criminal. Here's an idea... If you're so proud to be a Mexican, why don't you fix the problems in Mexico that drive millions to flee looking for a better life. Until you have the courage to protest for change in your own country, please don't try to tells us how to run ours. For insight into the Mexican Constitution, type in key words "Mexico's Glass House."

Keith_GS 8 years, 11 months ago

Illegal immigrants are committing a civil offense (like speeding or sexual harassment) by virtue of being in this country, not a criminal offense.

Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. Some neat Kansas misdemeanors include furnishing alcoholic liquor or malt beverage to a minor, unlawful parking in handicapped accessible parking, setting off a bottle rocket, unauthorized disclosure of a computer password, and good ol' consensual same-sex intercourse. So, individuals who engage in those activities and don't get prosecuted are also criminals.

Thus, I say we prosecute all the latent misdemeanor criminals as felons and build a federal prison in every Congressional district. It would not only create hundreds of thousands of construction jobs that every red-blooded American-born citizen is dying to get, but put away all of the dirty illegals, inconsiderates, homosexuals, fireworks enthusiasts, and college kids.

TonyWonder 8 years, 11 months ago

No amount of border security will ever solve this problem until Mexico has a viable economy. It's supply-side immigration reform that is truly necessary, everything else is just a band-aid.

Keith_GS 8 years, 11 months ago

Posted by Pilgrim (anonymous) on May 2, 2006 at 4:04 p.m.

"So again, we are forced to ask what part of "illegal" do you not understand?"


The part of "illegal" I don't understand is the implication that all "illegal" immigrants are breaking criminal laws due to their presence on our soil. That's a civil offense, not a crime. They are only criminals to the extent they crossed the U.S. border unlawfully. An immigrant who remains here after his or her green card or student visa has expired, for example, got here "legally," remains here "illegally," but is not a criminal, for example.

But that's just me. Other folk might not understand why egal is ill in the first place, and what that has to do with anything.

badger 8 years, 11 months ago

txgirl said:

" If someone asks me what am I, where am I from I'd say Texas born and raised, and I'm Mexican!"

So, you're expatriate, then?

For myself, I'm full-blooded German on both sides, late 19th century immigrants, but I'm an American, not a German American. My bone structure, hair color, eye color, coloring, and name are all pretty clearly Teutonic, and in my family we eat rotkohl and lebkuchen and schnitzel and we are very proud of our German heritage.

But we're Americans, 100%, before anything. My father served his country for a quarter century, and my mother's taught schoolchildren for the same length of time. My grandmother has voted in every election since she was old enough, my uncle fought in WWII. Another uncle has held three different low-paying political offices, and his wife is active in her local campaigns as both a contributor and a volunteer. I've voted in every election since my eighteenth birthday, and write my elected reps often. We came here in accordance with the immigration codes of the time, and have done our best to obey the laws of the land since.

Thing is, none of those illegal immigrants out there waving flags is going to put on a uniform and shed so much as one drop of blood for this country. They'll never be drafted, never serve a day. Their right to wave flags is protected by a group of people they will never join. Plenty of legal citizens of their heritage will, but not them.

My beef is not with legal immigrants, and never will be. My problem is with those who come here and reap the advantages of living in this country (jobs, social services, a police force that works, a stable school system), but all they put back in is labor and maybe some tax money. Because they chose to enter illegally, they'll never be able to perform the real civic duties of Americans: voting, defending this country militarily, holding public office - in other words, actively participating in the running and formation of this nation.

They're just a population of second-class citizens, with fewer rights and fewer safeguards against victimization than the rest of us, but a voluntary second class for all of that. They chose to come here illegally because the life of an illegal alien in the US is better than the life of a Mexican in Mexico.

That's a sad commentary on Mexico, but if you looked at your options and said, "I'll break the law to leave Mexico because anything is better than what I have," I find myself a little irked by those who made that choice, broke the law, and now demand that we cater to and reorganize immigration to suit them. They want the same rights and protections I have (protection against being victimized, the right to a jury trial, protection from unscrupulous employers), fine. Human beings are people and they should be treated like them. That doesn't mean I have to like the fact that they broke the law or let them get away with it.

Tony Kisner 8 years, 11 months ago

Where are the protests in the countries of origin for these people? Why is there no "revolution" against the widespread corruption that allows the strangle hold of poverty to continue in these nations. Evidently countries such as Mexico have abundant mineral wealth and a citizenry that is willing to work hard for their future prosperity. Yet because first you must pay those put in place by patronage, nothing will ever come of their labors in their own country.

Today Mr. Fox is delivering what the people really need, rather than wiping out government corruption he is signing into law the right for the citizens to get loaded. Now rather gathering in the streets Mexico's populace will be standing in line to get a few tacos to cure the munchies.

Bolivia is now appropriating assets using the military. "First we want your cash for these oil leases, and then we will roll our tanks in and steal your investment. And by the way we will need more foreign investment as soon as we squander these assets".

The US needs to push these third world countries to eliminate state sponsored corruption or the flow of refugees will continue. By building a secured boarder and not letting people escape the grip of their own government maybe they will take to their own streets and make a change.

xenophonschild 8 years, 11 months ago

badger:

Very succinct; you covered all the bases. What is absolutely necessary now is for the flow to be stopped, for the borders to be secured. I don't understand why this is such a grueling mystery to so many.

Secure the borders now, or reap the whirlwind later.

xenophonschild 8 years, 11 months ago

Marion:

As much as it hurts me to say so - for I suspect your sympathies lie with vile conservative Republicans - you have done a good job today. Our elected representatives need to know that people are both informed and concerned about illegal immigration, and that we will not tolerate the usual Washington whitewash.

holygrailale: wonderful to hear from you again, old girl. How long will it be before Kevin sticks his neck out for you to slice it?

hagar 8 years, 11 months ago

Might as well hold a protest demo. There's nothing else to do in Douglas County anyhow! Seriously, this issue is being distorted. I don't know of anyone who objects to LEGAL immigration. I know of plenty of objectors to ILLEGAL immigration: Yet the media insists on combining these into only one issue. Let's face it - I do something illegal, I go to jail. You do something illegal, you go to jail. They do something illegal - they get benefits and DEMAND THEIR RIGHTS. Is there something wrong with this picture????????

ledzep13 8 years, 11 months ago

"What I have a big problem with is watching hundreds of thousands illegal and legal immigrants wave the mexican flag and not only sing the National Anthem in spanish, but alter the words to MY nations anthem. According the man who owns the recording studio in which the song was recorded, they didn't do anything different, "because the original was taken from the British, they were into guns and fireworks". So here is a man on national news telling the world he altered the words to the National Anthem, AND showing the fact he knows nothing of the history of it? Mostly I am NOT convinced these illegal immigrants want to be AMERICANS. I think they want to be Mexicans, living in America. They are showing disrepect for the American flag, showing disrepect for American citizens by altering the National Anthem and singing it in spanish."


Our National Anthem is a re-written English drinking song...Francis Scott Key changed the lyrics. he knows its history- and they probably used that history as precedent for changing the lyrics again.


Do I hate them? No. Am I angry? Yes, because I love my country, my friends and family who have shed blood for my country. I wear my American flag on my sleeve with pride, and watching illegals waving the Mexican flag(and where was the American flag in the first rounds of protests?)on American soil makes me angry. This is not assimilation, these acts show to me that there is no desire to become an American, but to make America fit their ideals."


People are making such a double standard about this, what's St. Patrick's day? I seem to recall seing Irish flags being waved on "American soil", and I promise if you go to Lindsburg you'll see more Sweedish flags than any other.

Everyone who's saying that the waves of European immigration were different because they were legal...there was no law! of course it was legal. And once they got here they created the laws so they could keep out "undesireables." Look at the changes to our immigration policies, we limited Eastern Europeans, we limited East Asians, we change it to keep out whoever we don't deem worthy to live here.

I think neopolss put it right, very few of the European immigrants learned Cherokee. You should thank your lucky stars that the Mexican illegals aren't comming over en masse and armed to the teeth to put us on reservations.

SpeedRacer 8 years, 11 months ago

So, during all of these protests where the heck was the INS? Talk about shooting fish in a barrel!

bugmenot 8 years, 11 months ago

"I think neopolss put it right, very few of the European immigrants learned Cherokee. You should thank your lucky stars that the Mexican illegals aren't comming over en masse and armed to the teeth to put us on reservations."

Your bringing up stuff nobody living today had control over.

larrybill 8 years, 11 months ago

It seems to be some confusion. I dont think anyone is protesting the legal workers just the illegal workers. I say the buisness owners should terminate or at least discipline them for missing a day of work. I know I would be fired if I missed a day of work. But wait my family is legal.

xenophonschild 8 years, 11 months ago

holygrailale:

I noted charges of him (I thought Marion was a "she") being a narc made by a recent poster. No way to verify, but I did take note. My background as an evil vicious criminal monster makes me sensitive to narcs and other similar nefarious characters.

Look forward to joining forces against the evil denizens of Republican conservative right-wing fringe lunatics.

ledzep13 8 years, 11 months ago

Your bringing up stuff nobody living today had control over.


I understand that no one living today had control over that, I wasn't suggesting that we go back and try to stop it. All I'm saying is that this is the least violent invasion that this country has ever seen, maybe its not as big a deal as everyone's making it out to be.

And macon, this is a little off topic...but to respond, I think most "young liberals" get that way because their parents CANT afford to put them up in a house and take care of them till gramma dies. It seems to me (personal observation only) that most young conservatives have never worked a day in their life and have a cush job and a nice fat mutual fund waiting for them after they finish that big frat party they call college.

james bush 8 years, 11 months ago

I'm watching the B.. Sers in WDC on Cspan and wish I could kick their butts off the airwaves!!! Where the hell is our National Priorities !!?? Send all our reps and senators back to where they came from!!! They suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pinballqueen 8 years, 11 months ago

ledzep13: St. Patty's is not used as a forum to protest current US immigration laws. There is a difference between celebrating one's heritage, and claiming another nationality while protesting the laws against illegally occupying the US. It is the difference between being an American first and foremost, because I am of Irish decent and I am proud of that, but I wear my American flag with pride.

Also, St Patty's Day is something that ALL Americans have assimilated into their culture. I am sure that after many years, not all people out celebrating the holiday are trying to obtain extraneous rights for ILLEGAL Irish immigrants.

It is apples vs oranges. ILLEGAL immigrants who are waving the MEXICAN flag, are simply that. And once again, Lindsburg is no different than other cities that have pockets of AMERICAN citizens who are preserving their culture.

It is NOT an issue of LEGAL immigrants. It is an issue of ILLEGAL immigrants who come here and exploit our system. I hope, for our sake, they don't start showing up en masse and armed to the teeth, (with herion), because we are just beginning to feel the economic and systematic effects of paying for other's ways.

Wave any flag you want during a celebration of your heritage, just not during a protest of your illegal occupation of this country as my taxes help pay the way for illegals in my area.

BleedRWandB 8 years, 11 months ago

If these people want to become citizens they must immediately be enlisted and then shipped to Iraq, so that the taxpaying US citizens that are in Iraq can come home.

neopolss 8 years, 11 months ago

a) This entire illegal issue springing up is convenient for drawing away focus from other things I think. This is media at its best. Most have probably forgotten what we were fighting about one month ago.

b) I'm German-Irish descent, and American. I do proudly hold onto my culture and have seen what happens to those who assimilate. Anyone who studies geneology will notice that our mentality of losing your heritage has lost our history and culture in the process. I'm not just proud of who I am now, I represent my ancestors as well, even those within the old country.

c) I find it very true to our sense of arrogance again that we are cursing out the border jumpers, while completely ignoring the state of their country. We're half a world away "improving" Iraq, but we do nothing the alleviate or aid Mexico. Meanwhile, we're vacationing in Cancun while the peasants scuttle for food. THAT is sickening. We should be boycotting a country whose policies do not reflect our values as a society.

d) I hear a lot of talk about Mexicans "invading" our country. Just look at how many countries the USA has a presence in. And yes, I have seen Americans ignorant enough to expect other countries to speak English to them. This country is like a spoiled child. The world over has bowed before us, yet we want more, more, more. It doesn't matter that we're the wealthiest, the fattest, and the most sucessful, somehow, "those illegals" are dragging us down. Please, get over yourselves.

shanefivedyes 8 years, 11 months ago

The unemployment rate for American's is 4+%... The percent of illegals in the workforce 4+%. Why are we not talking about this??

BOE 8 years, 11 months ago

Posted by Arminius:

"You have pointed out the liberals' hypocrisy on this issue. Rep. Patrick Kennedy was a huge user of ILLEGAL drugs, yet you never heard a liberal caklling (sic) for his head. "

=== It's always the "liberals' hypocrisy", ain't it?

Not the "law and order" Rush, shrieking his "caklling" notions to frame what should be done with _ all _ lawbreaking druggies, and all of it met with the typical drooling, bleating, dittohead approval...until enabling Rush necessitates a paradigm change...

...and the whole "get tough" meme get washed away by the waves of compassionate conservatism and understanding that come cascading down.

====

"We're going to let you destroy your life. We're going to make it easy and then all of us who accept the responsibilities of life and don't destroy our lives on drugs, we'll pay for whatever messes you get into."

  • Rush Limbaugh show

-

"Drug use, some might say, is destroying this country. And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs, using drugs, importing drugs. And the laws are good because we know what happens to people in societies and neighborhoods which become consumed by them. And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up."

  • Rush Limbaugh

-

"What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with drug use. Too many whites are getting away with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we're not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too."

  • Rush Limbaugh

BOE 8 years, 11 months ago

Posted by Arminius:

" The fact that you, BOE, et. al. take pleasure in another's suffering is truly sick. You guys ought to consider checking yourselves in somewhere. "

-

The fact that you continue to obfuscate and lie is truly...par for the course. Your perspective on sickness is about as credible as a Sen. Frist TV diagnosis.

===

" How about that Vince Foster thing. Kind of makes a hunting accident in Texas look very minor, doesn't it? "

" In general, I find the liberals on this forum to be..... much more likely to embrace conspiracy theories, even those that have been discredited long ago. "

==

So sayeth the master projectionist and Tinfoiler.

monkeywrench1969 8 years, 11 months ago

I am sure this was mentioned but I noticed in the pictures it was mostly white kids in recycled clothes with Strano and Kalilia right in the middle of the group. Unfortunely Kalilia did not have that rock album pose she had in the story about how the Katrina help mission was horrible.

Isn't there a cause they are not invovled in?

BOE 8 years, 11 months ago

Posted by Arminius:

" You know, little fella, you moonbats keep saying that, but you never present an example of a lie I have told. "

=== c&p this one to your files so you don't forget, 'kay?

:Posted by Arminius: " The fact that you, BOE, et. al. take pleasure in another's suffering is truly sick. "

=== - ===

" I did not advance any conspiracy theory by mentioning the Vince Foster thing. "

- That would make you stand alone among RWer's, but let's face it, "the Vince Foster 'thing'." as opposed to, " "the Vince Foster 'suicide'", was pretty much hedging your bets.

-

" My point is that a White House aide killing himself (that is an established fact, is it not?) shortly into the Clinton administraion is certainly a bigger story than a vice president accidentally shooting a fellow hunter. "

-

Since V.P. Gore didn't shoot a fellow hunter, I doubt we'll ever know that for certain, but you can definitely draw inferences from the fact that the RW lie that Gore claimed to have invented the internet, certainly had the longer shelf life.

But no doubt, there was plenty of "above the fold" room for Foster in 1993, since there were no trials for the Iran-Contra criminals that Bush 41 pardoned.

Vince Foster? LOL. Must be that lib'rul press that's a keepin' that (13 year old) story out of the headlines, and thus preventing Bush's low 30% ratings from landing on page 26, where they belong, right?

As it stands, there are many who believe that Cheney's approval ratings remaining in the 20%'s after shooting a lawyer, was the bigger story.

===

" BOE quickly ran out of material on Limbaugh, Patrick Kennedy keeps volunterring more. "

-

All of which is relevant to Rush's "lock-the-druggies-up" quotes...how?

(And how in the heck could _ anybody _ ever _ "quickly run out of material" on that gasbag? ;)

Take heart Arminius, you can always go back to your "pleasure taken in another's suffering" lie, or just simply bemoan the deficit of compassion shown for _ Mr. Limbaugh's _ suffering, because lest we forget, it is _ HIS _ suffering that is of all-consuming importance...

-

"The FDA says there's no -- zilch, zero, nada -- shred of medicinal value to the evil weed marijuana. This is going to be a setback to the long-haired, maggot-infested, dope-smoking crowd."

-- Rush Limbaugh, radio show, April 21, 2006

-

...and no one else's.

BOE 8 years, 11 months ago

Posted by Arminius:

BOE:

" No example of a lie there--you clearly were taking pleasure in Limbaugh's suffering.

If that's the best you've got, you ought to drop the "lie" nonsense. You're just another moonbat hypocrite. "

====

Fair warning to all, it's now become hypocritical and sick pleasure to point out Rush Limbaugh's hypocrisy, by contrasting his quotes with his behavior, according to Arminius.

Rush suffers from hypocrisy, period. While that's no doubt a symptom of a larger problem, it's certainly no malady on it's own ... and nothing that can't be "cured" by him with large doses of integrity.

So you think I "ought to drop the "lie" nonsense", huh? No chance of that.

You twist things, make wild assertions, and you're dishonest when you do it and your freakshow attack on somebody for branding Limbaugh as the hypocrite he is, is symptomatic of that fact.

I only made one post before you went shooting your mouth off, so it should be in the realm of possibility to try and make a case to match your assertions.

Should be a cinch for such a standup guy.

BOE 8 years, 10 months ago

Posted by Arminius:

" The fact that you made anti-Limbaugh comments in a thread that has nothing to do with Limbaugh, ..."

-

Well, aren't you just the little fact factory?

Well, like St. Ronnie said, "Facts are stupid things."

===

From the thread: "Protesters take to streets"

Posted by Arminius on May 3, 2006 at 10:33 a.m.

rightthinker: "Rush has a problem with pain and addiction and is being treated like he's trafficking volume shipments of cocaine thru Miami. If it were Al Freakin' Franken, you guys on the left would be coming out yours seats as if you were spring loaded."

" Oxycontin is a double-edged sword. It kills the pain, but it takes larger and larger amounts to do so as your body becomes accustomed to it. Addiction is almost a guarantee.

You have pointed out the liberals' hypocrisy on this issue. Rep. Patrick Kennedy was a huge user of ILLEGAL drugs, yet you never heard a liberal caklling for his head. Instead the liberals sent this embarrassment (the apple does not fall far from the tree) to the U.S. House. "

. - BOE, 1st Post, May 3, 2006 at 3:47 p.m. -

========

" You're the only people with the truth, right? "

-

LOL

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