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Archive for Friday, January 6, 2006

Evangelist links Sharon’s stroke to God’s wrath

January 6, 2006

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— Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson suggested Thursday that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's stroke was divine punishment for "dividing God's land."

"God considers this land to be his," Robertson said on his TV program "The 700 Club." "You read the Bible and he says 'This is my land,' and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says, 'No, this is mine."'

Sharon, who ordered Israel's withdrawal from Gaza last year, suffered a stroke Wednesday.

In Robertson's broadcast from his Christian Broadcasting Network in Virginia Beach, the evangelist said he had personally prayed about a year ago with Sharon, whom he called "a very tender-hearted man and a good friend." He said he was sad to see Sharon in this condition.

He also said, however, that in the Bible, the prophet Joel "makes it very clear that God has enmity against those who 'divide my land."'

Sharon "was dividing God's land and I would say woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the EU (European Union), the United Nations or the United States of America," Robertson said.

In discussing what he said was God's insistence that Israel not be divided, Robertson also referred to the 1995 assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, who had sought to achieve peace by giving land to the Palestinians. "It was a terrible thing that happened, but nevertheless he was dead," he said.

The Anti-Defamation League issued a statement urging Christian leaders to distance themselves from the remarks. Robertson made similar comments as the Gaza withdrawal occurred, it said.

Comments

lunacydetector 8 years, 6 months ago

are we suffering 'divine wrath' by listening to pat?

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Redneckgal 8 years, 6 months ago

Robertson is getting as bad as Fred Phelps. Are we supposed to believe that every bad thing that happens to good people is some punishment from God? I'd hate to go to his church.

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

Some of the previous remarks that Pat has said about calling for an asassination of leaders I completely disagreed with. However, like he said God is very clear about that land being His and His chosen people of Israel. Now I am not saying God is just squishing Sharon under His thumb, but I will say that God said that He will watch over His word and see it come to pass which means that land will ultimately be Israel's no matter what. When those words were written in the old testament God knew what the end result would be. You all can denounce Robertson if you want and I will admit some of his comments have made me wonder what he is thinking but God's word will remain true no matter who is in office.

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

Redneckgal as far as your comment about every bad thing that happens to good people, keep in mind that people reap what they sow and that is pointed out in Galatians 6.

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

Wendt, In the biblical sense God's chosen people first and foremost were the Jews and that area of land that He gave to them is their land. So Israel is the land of the chosen ones of God, therefore His land. Since God made promises through the prophets in the old testament to His people, He followed through and part of that promise is for the land of Israel. He didn't promise any other nation a guarantee of having that land so that is what Robertson is referring to as God's land. I don't know if you were being serious or if you just were trying to poke fun due to your last comments but that would be my answer.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 6 months ago

The religious texts written by Jews claim that it is God's law that Jews control and inhabit Israel. Go figure.

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

wendt, I don't want you to take this in the wrong way because I know we all know people that have children that get sick and obviously they shouldn't in our minds but our any of us worthy of having a life without troubles? I do look to the bible as the operator's manual for life. Honestly though where is our measure for determining who is worthy of bad things happening to them? Please answer this question and then we can go on to why bad things happen to "good people."

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

wendt, I completely agree with you that God resides everywhere and in the hearts of those who ask Him to reside there. No I am not suggesting that others are better than the rest like you say. You missed what I said and that was that God chose the nation of Israel based on Abraham and they were to be a blessed nation. Just because He chose to bless Israel and the Jewish nation and have written promises to His people back then doesn't negate the promises that He has given to believers. In the scriptures God is not a respecter of persons but when He makes a promise He will carry it out and that is why Israel will always have that land. In response to your two other questions I would have to say both. Israel will exist because it is God's chosen people of the Jews and their land, but it also will stay in tact because it is tied to biblical prophecy and plays a large role of a lot of events including Armageddon. I think that is what you asked, but let me know if it isn't.

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bankboy119 8 years, 6 months ago

Wendt,

As to bad things happening to small children, we live in a fallen earth. As all of us, or at least most of us, have figured out, life isn't fair. Just because you're a "good Christian" doesn't mean you won't have hard times. Just because you're a "bad person" doesn't mean there won't be good in your life. In the Old Testament, God promised his people that if they followed Him then there would be earthly rewards (gold, silver, land, plenty of food, good health) but if they didn't then He would punish them by sending famine, pestilence, wars, etc. If you look at the course of Israel and Judah's history in the Old Testament then that is the case. In the New Testament, under the new covenant, there is no promise of health, wealth, and land. If you look how Jesus was treated, why should other Christians be expected to be treated any different? There is no promise that, "If you follow Me (God), then you will live in a land of milk and honey and be able to drive lavish cars and have the most expensive everything." Jesus said in the book of Matthew chapter 6 " And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

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bankboy119 8 years, 6 months ago

Yes there were books that were not included in the Bible. I haven't studied all of them though so I do not want to answer as to why they were not included. But Wendt, I assume you haven't studied the true meanings as to why they are not included either so unless you want to go just on pure speculation I would say you are not qualified to answer that either.

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BDub 8 years, 6 months ago

I'll never understand people who believe God is this hateful and/or vengeful being. To me, that's just completely alien to my version of God. People can interpret the bible in any way they want to - and Robertson is a wacko and interprets it as any wacko would. The Fred Phelps comparison previously mentioned seems pretty close to the mark.

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Darth_Vader 8 years, 6 months ago

Pat is a dumbass and everyone knows it but Pat.

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

See wendt you are still under the assumption that you are a good person and you very well might be under the characteristics that we all label as good. However, none of us are worthy of life, it was given to us as a gift from God. You don't deserve to have a good life and neither do I. The point is that we have been saved by God through His Son Jesus Christ. If you think that God isn't a great guy, then you simply aren't understanding Him. We live in a fallen world as bankboy stated, and God didn't save us by letting us earn His favor, but He saved us by offering His Son as a sacrafice for us so that we can have one way to Him. There is one road to salvation and a loving God would make it simple for us and He has. My Christian God is awesome. I have seen the people you speak of with illnesses, disabilities, etc that have been healed by the power of God and prayer in the name of Jesus Christ. One way is simple, not complicated and only a loving God would make it that easy.

My point from my question that you try to dance around by throwing it back in my face is that none of us are worthy for life or to have a good one. I know I am blessed for what I have and I know sometimes I take it for granted just like all of us do, but I thank God everyday for what I have and if I get sick I really don't care because I just might get to heaven sooner. Life is short no matter if you are six or if you are seventy, and some see many illnesses and some see none. What makes you think that we are entitled to a trouble free life? That is my question to you. Why do you think that you should have no troubles in life, whether the troubles come when you are young or when you are old?

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weterica 8 years, 6 months ago

Craigers--

I'm with you. The Bible is an "operator's manual for life."

If it weren't for the first couple chapters of Leviticus I wouldn't know the proper way to sacrifice a bull or a bird (or even what kind of bird to sacrifice)! And I would be clueless on how to deal with someone who curses (stone them to death).

And Exodus! My goodness! At first I was really concerned that when I sold my daughter to a friend of a friend the Lord might be angry, but then I learned in Exodus that it is all good.

You and me, craigers, are one of a kind.

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

Wendt as far as bad things happening to anybody and why doesn't God just wipe out the devil?
For one He will wipe out the devil but for now He doesn't. I feel the reasoning behind that is when do people feel like they need help? Honestly when things are going well, not very many people think about God, but the moment things head south, they are quick to blame Him. Why me? I've been a "good christian" and haven't done that many wrong things. I know I go through difficult times to correct some of my behaviors and attitudes. Your life molds you into who you are and if you never go through bad times then why would you think that you need a Savior or help? It is just human nature that when the world is going good in their favor that they don't need anything but when things go bad they start looking to either point the finger and blame somebody or that is when they actually seek help.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 6 months ago

He also won't explain why the Gospel of Timothy isn't in his operating manual.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

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badger 8 years, 6 months ago

looks at bankboy

looks at craigers

One of you is saying that people reap what they have sown. One of you is saying, "It's a fallen earth and bad things just happen." Neither of you has answered the question as to why a child would be born with a horrible birth defect, live ten months in excruciating pain, and die horribly. That child cannot have sown anything, and 'bad things just happen' is not the work of an omnipotent and benevolent God when the 'bad things' are happening to someone innocent.

I think both of you might benefit from a reading of St. Augustine (or a rereading). He offers the idea that evil exists in the world to give man an opportunity to exercise free will, and that the situation of a child like that comes about because there is evil in the world. He posits that God could vanquish the evil, but that the reason for his not doing so is that evil is necessary to make the choice to do good meaningful, and that only those who have consciously chosen the path of good are worthy of salvation/enlightenment/what have you.

Most world religions have some answer to 'why is there suffering among the innocent?' and some of those answers are good and some not so much.

Dismissing the question with references to reaping what you sow, or 'bad things just happen' just minimizes the question. It's central and fundamental to the notion of an organized spirituality to examine this question deeply.

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badger 8 years, 6 months ago

craigers said:

"Now I am not saying God is just squishing Sharon under His thumb, but I will say that God said that He will watch over His word and see it come to pass which means that land will ultimately be Israel's no matter what. When those words were written in the old testament God knew what the end result would be. "

Craigers, when Moses brought the Commandments to his people, he found them not living according to God's wishes, and they were punished as a result by having the Kingdom of Israel put out of their reach for a time.

I ask myself, "Given that Israel has acted with arrogance in the Middle East, that they have executed, assassinated, and tortured those in disagreement with them, that they have bombed refugee camps (killing children and innocents along with 'suspected terrorists'), that they have justified all these actions by saying that they're God's chosen, is it perhaps possible that they are currently being prevented from realizing the dream of Israel because of those actions which deny the Scripture that says that vengeance belongs to the Lord and demands that they trust in Him even when they don't see reason to and Sharon's decision to act with more national humility is actually one made with an eye towards the very worthy path of humbling oneself before one's God, and not arrogantly demanding that the rest of the world give way to you because you are God's Chosen?"

The promise of the Kingdom of Israel has been used in the last fifty years to justify horrible things being done by Israel and other world nations. They say, "We're God's Chosen and these things are necessary because we say so," but I'm not so sure. I think that their self-proclamation as the chosen of God doesn't give them the right to break His laws.

Also, I was taught at an early age that the notion of the Kingdom of Israel was not that the chosen would have a little niche carved out in a sandy place for them of X dimensions, but that the Kingdom meant something much larger than a physical place, that it was not a metaphor to designate a specific nation but rather something larger.

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hottruckinmama 8 years, 6 months ago

even though i believe in god this is why i don't go to church. maybe i over simplify things but i prefer to keep my faith kind of like a little kid-if i try to do the right thing and be kind to other people and be good (and believe me that ain't always easy :)) hopefully things will be okay. maybe that is totally the wrong way and maybe i will end up in hell (i hope not) but i just can't seem to get into the hypocrite stuff that goes on in most churchs.

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ksmattfish 8 years, 6 months ago

Having to live someplace where your children are in constant danger of being killed by your neighbors sounds like Hell to me. With all the kids in the bible that God kills, has killed, or wants to kill (including his own) I would think twice before living on his chosen land.

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staff04 8 years, 6 months ago

Rather than try to defend this joker, why don't you self-proclaimed "compassionate conservatives" distance yourself from him? It makes absolutely no sense the way you try to justify through some perverse, circular logic Robertson's insane and un-christian comments.

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staff04 8 years, 6 months ago

hey wendt. thanks for the case...

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staff04 8 years, 6 months ago

Ooooh! I got it! How about this explanation: "He's 77 years old. Old people have strokes and die."

Nah, not good enough--must be God's wrath.

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DaREEKKU 8 years, 6 months ago

Why is God being referred to a He!? Why not she? or just God even? God's wrath....common, give me a break. I seriously doubt, if God exists, that God would want to be used to justify the slaughter of these people all in the name of "what we think is best."

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BrianR 8 years, 6 months ago

Yes, what will Robertson's punishment be for purporting to speak for God?

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

You guys aren't answering my question either. Why do you think any of us deserve a life free from sickness, trouble, death, etc? Badger both of bankboy's answer and mine are true. Step one the bad things that happen in this world are ultimately because of the fallen world and the fall of Adam. The fallen world is the ultimate cause for all wrong in the world. And Galatians reference speaks to people who think that they will just live life the way they want and then they will be okay in the end because God is a loving God. If you sow seeds for your flesh you reap corruption and that means you end up going to hell. If you work for God and have Jesus in your heart of your being then you will reap eternal life. Seems pretty simple to me.

So badger, wendt, and others who I have asked... Why do you think that we should not have any troubles, sickness, hardships, etc in life? That should be step one. None of us is perfect, not one.

Badger your reference to Moses and the judgement for sins of the Israelites is correct, but we are not under that covenant anymore and the judgement or wrath of God was poured out on His Son for all the sins of the world, but in order to come under that convenant we have to accept its premises and the gift of salvation not just know about it. And the two events of Sharon and Moses, I don't see on the same level or being closely related. In addition to your reference to St. Augustine I agree with the reasoning behind suffering and bad things in this world give us an opportunity to use our free will and make us what we are, but the fall of Adam was the cause.

Ljreader, there are many reasons why He had to go to the cross. The cross has great symbolizes the reason why it was needed. The cross shows the reconcilation of the past and then the future children of God (horizontal beam), and then the reconciliation to the earth up to God (vertical beam). God reconciled this world to Him through His Son. A blood sacrifice has always been needed for the remission of sins but because Jesus was a sinless man in the flesh, He was the perfect and only acceptable sacrifice for the forgiveness of everybody's sins.

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badger 8 years, 6 months ago

shares beer with wendt's wife

ljreader said:

"So, badger, life is basically just a test- I thought we were created in God's image. That would make us perfect, wouldn't it?"

Many schools of Christian theology believe just that - that life, for each person, is a long series of tests and opportunities to choose the 'right' path. Some (like the church in which I was raised) hold that those choices come in the form of chances to behave according to God's designations of appropriate behaviour, and that when you choose compassion, or love, or faith, you're choosing the 'right' way whether you're a professed Christian or not. Others hold that the only choice that really matters is accepting Christ into your heart, even if it's done in the last half hour of a life of sin, cruelty, and debauchery, and that someone who is not a Christian could live according to every dictate in the Bible except the one about accepting Christ as the One True Way and still burn for eternity.

But most Christian schools of thought maintain that the existence of free will is in and of itself a test, that the choice between good and evil is clear but not always easy, and that your ultimate destination is based entirely in your own answers to those tests.

As for being created in God's image, image does not equal exact likeness. Of course, I have always liked the quote (the origin of which escapes me at the moment), "God created Man in His own image, and Man was kind enough to return the favor."

That which is Divine is beyond human comprehension. It's just that large. We each create and accept our own framework for relating to the concept it embodies, be it God or Brigid or Fate or Science, and we guide our lives according to the dictates of that framework. If we envision gods, we make them like us, but better - like the people we wish we were, really. If we envision that concept as science, we make its laws infallible and beyond question, certain and sure.

I think the only really true thing is that we are all trying to cope with something we intuitively recognize as beyond our capacity for total comprehension.

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tell_it_like_it_is 8 years, 6 months ago

And the real scary part is our president actually thinks this man is okay and takes advice from him and his kind.

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badger 8 years, 6 months ago

craigers said:

"So badger, wendt, and others who I have asked... Why do you think that we should not have any troubles, sickness, hardships, etc in life? That should be step one. None of us is perfect, not one.

Badger your reference to Moses and the judgement for sins of the Israelites is correct, but we are not under that covenant anymore and the judgement or wrath of God was poured out on His Son for all the sins of the world, but in order to come under that convenant we have to accept its premises and the gift of salvation not just know about it."

The answer to the first part is that I don't. I think suffering, the thing you call evil, and disharmony are necessary because the world is a place of balance. When things are out of balance, we have a different perspective on them, and by working to bring them into balance, we learn more about how things Are and we grow as spiritual beings. The pain, hate, and anger I've felt in my life have helped me really understand joy, love, and peace - and appreciate them for the simple and wonderful things they are. Without dark, light has no meaning.

The answer to your second point is that you are not under that covenant any more. The Jews are. They don't accept that Christ was really the Messiah, and so their covenant remains as it was in the days of Moses. Do please remember that not everyone shares your faith and consents to its accuracy as the correct version of the way things are.

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gr 8 years, 6 months ago

Pat Robertson, and some others, need to read more of the Bible instead of politics. Especially verses such as Matt 23:37-24:2. And, Rom 9:6 and surrounding, "It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel."
Israel, as a God ordained physical entity, has been history (kaput, finish, overwith...) for almost 2000 years. Paul speaks of God's promises being fulfilled in a spiritual Israel, since physical Israel refused to partake of them.

There is just so much in the Bible about Israel, the country, no longer being "most favored nation". Check out Romans chapters 10 and 11. In fact, all of Romans is good.

wendt:

What do you think God should have done with the devil? Should He wiped him out the first time he stepped across the line? Maybe that would have saved us lots of suffering. But, if you were a fellow created being, what would you think of God then? How would be your reaction to Him from then on? "Better not mess up or the same thing could happen as did to poor old Lucifer".

With the view of there is a devil seeking whom he may devour, rather than asking why do bad things happen to innocent people (as if there are innocent people), ask why do good things happen to anyone?

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Jamesaust 8 years, 6 months ago

"why don't you self-proclaimed "compassionate conservatives" distance yourself from him?"

Every time Pat (or similar types) make some statement deemed "insane," many roll their eyes, make utterances about how wrong he is this time, and distinguish their better version of belief from his.

Yet, when Pat (or similar types) decries stem-cell research as an abomination, demonizes gays, simplifies abortion providers (but rarely mothers) as garden-variety murders, belittles the poor for not having enough faith, or even offers up his pseudo-sophisticated views on tax policy, international trade, or Chinese/American relations, many of the same slap their knees and shout "Amen!"

(While later overturned by the KS Supreme Court finding "no rational basis" for the law), when the Kansas Court of Appeals approved magnified criminal punishment of gays and cited the survival of the human species as a rational basis for the law (literally - I'm not kidding), where was the outraged demand for psychological exams for the members of the Appeals Court? (A lawsuit I note that our Attorney General characterized as testing whether the State COULD criminalize child molestation at all - a lie.)

When Connie Morris makes (yet another) outrageous remark - many aimed at lawmakers - where is the outraged demand from the legislative leadership for her censure or even expulsion?

When the chairman of the KS BOE states falsely that public school teachers are disseminating pornography in the state's schools, where is the voice of the Governor demanding an apology?

Many who proclaim themselves as conservatives are anything but yet the public lets the hypocracy, hatred, even lunacy of public remarks to slide by without consequence. No wonder there's so much of it - we've "defined such deviancy down" and find it unremarkable in our times.

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Bubarubu 8 years, 6 months ago

I wrote my master's thesis on the rhetoric of Christian Zionism, of which Pat is a minor profit...prophet...

They make it very clear that the land itself is their goal, not a spiritual or ephemeral redemption, and that the land is the means to a spiritual redemption through the Armageddon. What's really disturbing about them is the one thing Pat's avoided today and that's corporate damnation. Rather than individually condemn those who do not support Israel (in its modern, political form) they say that you will be condemned if your government does not support Israel. Only when theology turns from guidance for the individual to control of the state does that sort of notion become possible.

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

badger, we are stating our beliefs and what we feel is true and accurate. I will not appologize for my stand on the scriptures or my belief in its accuracy but I do appologize about my comments stating that they were under the new covenant. You are correct that they are still under it, and to that I wonder why they don't still offer live animal sacrifices like they used to. I admit that some might still occur but not like they used to. Thanks for answering the questions that I have asked.

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badger 8 years, 6 months ago

Craigers, I never asked you to apologise for your beliefs. I just ask you to remember that not everyone shares them and not speak from the assumption that everyone believes what you believe to be true.

As to the live animal sacrifices, I don't know why either, and I don't have a rabbi or Talmudic scholar handy to answer it. I would posit that perhaps the sacrifices themselves weren't specifically called for in the covenant (though I don't know) between God and the individual, but rather they were practices that recognized or honored it, and that other ways of recognizing or honoring it have been found.

It may be that it was a giving of part of one's wealth to God from a time when the definition of wealth was based in possession of livestock. One can't exactly give part of one's land to God. However, now that money is the major form of wealth currency, the appropriate sacrifice to honor that covenant would the giving of part of one's financial wealth to God or God's work. It would be an interesting question to examine the reasons for the sacrifice and how its practice has played out through the centuries. From what I know of Judaism, the law doesn't change just because something like live animal sacrifice falls out of fashion. It would have been considered and examined, and if a proposed alternative didn't satisfy the rabbis that it fulfilled the law, it wouldn't have been adopted.

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Curtis Martell 8 years, 6 months ago

Children get sick and die because humans do not live forever. There are diseases that kill humans and animals. Life is a cycle and not everyone can live forever. Jeez where were you people in science class. Oh right you went to school in Kansas.

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badger 8 years, 6 months ago

Actually, lawrenceguy, I never went to one day of school in Kansas. I don't know if any of the others did.

True, any moron knows that people get sick and die because they're mortal. The real question isn't about the biological causes, which are easy to understand, but about how to reconcile faith in any sort of god with what seems to be the senseless and painful reality of existence.

Faced with it, you either deny there's a god or you try to find some reason that a god might allow the suffering and pain to exist. Too many things in my life have reaffirmed my own faith for me to give it up. In order not to go crazy, I've had to think a lot about why pain and hate are in the world, and what possible benefit their existence could have.

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Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

I think Pat Robertson is showing signs of of the onset of senile dementia. Rep. Murtha, too. Poor guys.

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gr 8 years, 6 months ago

wendt:

God didn't create the devil - He created Lucifer who chose to become evil.

Would you rather God didn't create those with choice? Maybe robots? Or how about nothing? Then you couldn't ask, why?

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craigers 8 years, 6 months ago

badger, oddly enough I would have to agree as to why they might not offer animal sacrifices anymore and possibly give money. However, in addition to the sacrifices in the old testament God also called the tenth of all their increases His and should be given to the Lord. This being said, I feel that the old testament has proven that blood was needed to be shed for the forgiveness of sin and money was another way of sacrificing for God. I don't feel that they would be able to just omit the sacrifices and give more money, but I don't know for sure. As we all have realized at some point that money is one of the hardest things to give up and to give God a tenth would be a great sacrifice. If anybody here knows of a rabbi, I would like to know why they don't do animal sacrifices anymore?

Badger, I too have seen miracles in this natural world that prove the existence of God to me for me to ever give up my faith.

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gr 8 years, 6 months ago

Lucifer was not the devil. He was created with choice just like the rest of the angels and us. He made the choice and there was war in heaven and he took a third of the angels with him. They each made a choice too.

Making a product that is able to choose, I wouldn't call that defective. Now, or at the beginning as stated in Genesis, comes the problem of solving this foreign problem of sin and rebellion - thinking life would be better without God.

Yes, and we can turn against Him, too.

God is a creator. Remember the automated rover contest out west? They created things that didn't work so well the first time, but the next time, some were able to finish. They gave their creations the ability to "figure out", if you will, unknown obstacles. Couldn't the Creator God create creatures who can think for themselves, and be able to adapt to their environment (not to be confused with evolving to higher creatures)? Even though it is not as much a perfection as it once was, they still do pretty good.

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badger 8 years, 6 months ago

craigers -

The covenant of blood remains in the form of the bris, ritual circumcision.

The bris was never connected to animal sacrifice.

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BrianR 8 years, 6 months ago

"Lucifer was not the devil. He was created with choice just like the rest of the angels and us. He made the choice and there was war in heaven and he took a third of the angels with him. They each made a choice too."

I love the uniquely human fascination with the supernatural.

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enochville 8 years, 6 months ago

Wow! I am not going to get involved in what has become the main discussion in this thread. But, I will say that Robertson made an offense statement that he was not justified in making.

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laughingatallofu 8 years, 6 months ago

I'm just wondering whether some of our conservative friends on this board might want to come out and defend or condemn Pat Robertson's remarks. Surprisingly, from all of the above posts, I haven't seen much of either from them.

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gr 8 years, 6 months ago

wendt: why do you think Lucifer didn't become the devil?

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crazymanthinkin 8 years, 6 months ago

Pat Roberts. Why is it when he sticks his foot in his mouth he starts talking out of his *ss? I cannot believe people report his comments and give them any importance.

We should find out who the advertisers for the 700 Club are and boycott them. I can't believe he has a platform for his legitimized hate. More and more Phelpslike - you're right. Why is his show called the 700 Club anyway? Is that because that's how many people he believes will be in heaven with him?

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Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

Um, that would be Pat RobertSON.

Pat Roberts is a Kansas Senator. I'm pretty sure he would be very unhappy to be confused with the 700 club guy.

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Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

"Why is his show called the 700 Club anyway?"

Try Google. duh.

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crazymanthinkin 8 years, 6 months ago

Oops - my bad. Perhaps in today's climate of religious conservativism it would be easy to mix up a Senator from Kansas with the media-savvy-"Christian" particularly as only two letters differentiate them in name. Hopefully, you know what you're talking about and that - Roberts - would be unhappy to be compared to Robertson. I hope he isn't going to tap any phones to find out who may confuse him with the other Pat guy.

And the duh... try Google - not so helpful but I found this info through a link on the official - all things Pat Robertson website: patrobertson.com

"Background of The 700 Club

The 700 Club television program is an outgrowth of a 1963 telethon in which founder Pat Robertson asked 700 viewers to join the "700 Club" by pledging $10 a month, money needed to meet CBN's monthly budget. After a very successful "700 Club" telethon in 1966, Robertson decided to add to the end of his station's broadcast day a program with a format of prayer and ministry coupled with telephone response. He named it The 700 Club, hoping to build a nationwide audience based on this earlier success. Seen in 95 percent of the television markets across the United States, The 700 Club now airs in nearly 90 million homes and averages about one million viewers on a daily basis."

Yeah - It's named after Christians with money who like to see Pat RobertSON on TV. I'm sure they are all proud of where they money has put him today.

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Godot 8 years, 6 months ago

Those 'Christians with money' you refer to with disdain include people like my deceased mother in law who, 20 years ago, homebound in a tiny house in a dead town in southeast kansas, living on $482 per month from Social Security, found $15 per week to send to the 700 Club because she viewed it as her 'church."

Yes, ignorant, yes, misguided. Rich, powerful, and part of a huge conspiracy, as you seem to suggest, no. you have a lot to learn.

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gr 8 years, 6 months ago

wendt: After rereading the dialog, I'm not sure we are understanding each other.

I said: "Lucifer was not the devil. " with the emphasis on "was". The devil IS not Lucifer but WAS Lucifer as depicted in Isaiah 14:12-15.

Then we have the 700 club. But I won't comment on it.

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