Citizenship rules may hurt poor children, advocates say / LJWorld.com

Archive for Monday, August 14, 2006

August 14, 2006

New federal rules requiring Medicaid recipients to document that they are U.S. citizens may decrease health care for low-income children who are citizens, child advocates say.

"With over 45,000 children in Kansas uninsured, it makes no sense to do anything to further restrict health care services," said Cindy D'Ercole, a policy analyst with Kansas Action for Children.

"This would make the emergency room the primary source of care for even more children," she said.

D'Ercole said many parents have difficulty keeping track of children's documentation, and children in foster care often have trouble obtaining birth certificates and other documents.

But state officials say that since the federal rules went into effect July 1, they haven't seen any delayed or denied care.

"The state of Kansas is making every effort to allow beneficiaries an appropriate amount of time to supply supporting documentation," said Luke Thompson, a spokesman for the Kansas Health Policy Authority.

"We've not yet been made aware of any specific problems, but our level of concern remains high," Thompson said.

Medicaid Eligibility: Proof of Citizenship

Medicaid is financed through state and federal funds and provides health care to approximately 250,000 people statewide, or nearly one in 10 Kansans. Children, the elderly and those with disabilities make up 90 percent of the recipients.

Under the Deficit Reduction Act signed into law by President Bush, current Medicaid recipients and new applicants are required to verify their citizenship and identities by providing documents such as birth certificates or U.S. passports. Before the new law, recipients were able to self-declare their citizenship.

Discussion

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14 August 2006
at 6:02 a.m.

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oldgranny (Anonymous) says…

I can hardly wait to here what you right-wing “get them born but then let them starve in the street” people have to say on this one.
14 August 2006
at 7:16 a.m.

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Shardwurm (Anonymous) says…

You're right oldgranny. There's nothing we all love better than to pay more and more taxes to subsidize the living of people who are clueless and either unable or unwilling to work….oh, and who aren't citizens of the US.

What services do you - personally - want to give up in order to continue to finance illegal aliens?
14 August 2006
at 8:28 a.m.

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LovelyAngel315 (Anonymous) says…

Well considering that Medicaid is a health plan for children…i think maybe I would give up cable tv or some similar luxury to help an alien child get medical care. We help the poor in other countries by sending money (i.e. Children International, Save the Children Foundation) and with todays article about the medical team going to help, I think we could help the poor in our own country. At least, when it comes to health for children.
14 August 2006
at 8:53 a.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

LovelyAngel315…

Medicaid is a program funded by American taxpayers, as a health plan for **american** children. When *I* say “American” (as opposed to how others might define “American”), I'm referring to:

1) children whose parents were born here

2) children whose parents are staying here legally, perhaps on a work visa or with a “green card”

There's a rule that says, essentially, that any child born in the USA is automatically given American citizenship. I think too many people have taken advantage of this rule, and it needs to be struck down.

We already give lots of taxpayer dollars to Mexico under the guise of “foreign aid.” If they want American-funded health care, let them go back home to Mexico and get it. :)

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
14 August 2006
at 8:57 a.m.

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Shardwurm (Anonymous) says…

“I think maybe I would give up cable tv or some similar luxury to help an alien child get medical care.”

Then DO IT. Seriously…this is the kind of tripe that makes me sick. It's easy to post here and say you'll give up cable but you know you won't do it.

In case you haven't noticed the cost of living is going through the ceiling right now. If I have to pay taxes I want it to go to the people who are eligible for it.
14 August 2006
at 9:02 a.m.

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ljreader (Anonymous) says…

The children who are legally entitled to these benefits should have no problem receiving them, so what's the big deal?
Our country is the most generous in the world when it comes to foreign aid. Are we supposed to feel guilty unless we go bankrupt and become a third world nation ourselves from absorbing the world's poverty into our own country?
Medicaid for LEGAL citizens only- and proof of citizenship? This is a no-brainer. I can only wonder why it's an issue. It should have always been this way.
14 August 2006
at 9:19 a.m.

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Bubarubu (Anonymous) says…

ljreader, our country is among the least generous in the world when it comes to foreign aid. We give more money than anyone else (although that is a fairly new development), but a smaller percentage of our national income than every industrialized nation except for Portugal. In 2005, Portugal gave .21% and we gave .22%. Less than one quarter of one percent cannot, under any definition, be characterized as generous.

So, the implicit question you're asking is why should we support other countries with foreign aid? Without that aid, people are more likely to starve. When they starve, they either die in huge numbers (something most people are opposed to), or they start fighting over the few resources they have left. When they fight, they die, they flood across borders to become refugees, and they are more susceptible to the influence of political ideologues that can radicalize them and perpetuate the violence. Guilt? No. I think out foreign aid should be driven by a sense of common humanity, but if that's not enough for you, take a swing at self-interest. That's a pretty good justification too.

14 August 2006
at 9:42 a.m.

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alm77 (Anonymous) says…

Bubarubu, right on!

“Illegal” babies aren't less valuable than American babies. They should take any child regardless of citizenship. It's not a childs fault that they've been brought here, why should they suffer because of it?
14 August 2006
at 10:32 a.m.

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Wilbur_Nether (Anonymous) says…

Agnostick wrote “There's a rule that says, essentially, that any child born in the USA is automatically given American citizenship. I think too many people have taken advantage of this rule, and it needs to be struck down.” Which striking down would be pretty difficult, given that it's the 14th Amendment. The Supremes would essentially have to declare the Constitution unConstitutional.
14 August 2006
at 10:39 a.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

So if “illegal” babies aren't less valuable than American babies, can we conclude that they aren't any more or less expensive to treat than American babies, as well?

Hey, my email address appears below. Would y'all mind sending me your names and addresses, so I can send you all my medical bills? I realize I'm not in the U.S. illegally, but *like* a lot of illegals, there are times when it's tough to keep up with the medical bills. I'd like to know that I can count on y'all to help out the next time I need to run the baby to the doctor.

Thanks! :)

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com

P.S. Might wanna note your calendar that the girl's 18-month checkup (including immunizations) will be in October…
14 August 2006
at 10:44 a.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

Wilbur_Nether…

Quite easily doable! Example:

http://www.usconstitution.net/constto…

Note: I'm not debating the full language of how to do this, mind you. I'm merely pointing out that, procedurally, it can be done.

Another example might be the 21st Amendment…

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
14 August 2006
at 11 a.m.

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kidster (Anonymous) says…

Just to make this clear, the artilce is about 'citizens' losing their health care coverage. Children that should be eligible, but can't find their Kansas (or other state) birth certificate. A good example would be foster children that often have few records.
14 August 2006
at 11:09 a.m.

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KsTwister (Anonymous) says…

Anyone born here can get proof….every State has a record,the person just needs the small fee for the copy and the information to look it up. That argument doesn't hold water.
14 August 2006
at 11:16 a.m.

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kidster (Anonymous) says…

But what if it takes two weeks? Is the foster parent supposed to pay the fee? Is a low-income parent supposed to take off work to get the cetificate and pay the $18? Why would you do anything that would not let children go the doctor when they are sick? This particular obstacle is new and created by the documentation requirements.
This is not just a concern in Kansas, but is a national issue that has already happened in other states.
14 August 2006
at 11:53 a.m.

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Jamesaust (Anonymous) says…

“There's a rule that says, essentially, that any child born in the USA is automatically given American citizenship. I think too many people have taken advantage of this rule, and it needs to be struck down.”

Yes, the U.S. Constitution is a “rule.” It needs to be “struck down” by one of those “activist” judges we hear so much about - the ones who substitute their own opinions for the law.

“We already give lots of taxpayer dollars to Mexico under the guise of 'foreign aid'.”

The U.S. government is infamous for its stingyness in foreign aid - adjusted for our immense wealth we're slightly more generous than Portugal (but more tightfisted than the Greeks). One would think that those obsessed about an “uncontrolled” border who make it a priority to improve conditions on the other side of that border (much as one would think that anti-abortion advocates would prioritize child-welfare issues). Luckily, U.S. citizens give immense sums of their own after-tax earnings.

Besides, what's the point of allowing children to incur various illness only to have life-long effects that will burden the taxpayer even more.

Would that Jesus had said: Suffer little children if they have proof of U.S. citizenship, and forbid all others, to come unto Me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

14 August 2006
at 11:53 a.m.

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ma (Anonymous) says…

Ljreader,
Your comment regarding US generosity made me laugh. Do you know that the US is the only super-developed country with no public healthcare system? Do you know that when a child, adult.. immigrant lands in Europe they have the same rights as citizens and that it is unconstitutional to treat them differently on base of their country of origin or their “legal” status? That is, if they need a heart transplant, they would get the best doctor regardless of the patients' economic status, for instance. However, it is true that in Europe we do the same with families in need and here, in the US, people die because they don't have money for their medical expenses. What a super -developed country!!!
14 August 2006
at 12:49 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

Okay ma, then go for it!

Let's give more money to the poor, especially the children!

I vote we start with the nation of… Appalachia

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
14 August 2006
at 1:03 p.m.

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ljreader (Anonymous) says…

You all worry about illegal immigrants too much. They are an industrious bunch when it comes to fleecing the American taxpayers.
They have in a place what probably amounts to a multi million dollar organized crime industry producing fradulent birth certificates, fake green cards, and fake social security cards.
For those who wish to help- you already are in the form of billions of annual tax dollars in hospital bills, free schools and lunch programs, etc. Also, the stolen social security numbers they are using on their fake cards may be your own. Good luck getting THAT straightened out if you are a victim.
14 August 2006
at 1:11 p.m.

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ma (Anonymous) says…

Do you know that the people “producing fradulent birth certificates, fake green cards, and fake social security cards” are most of the time US citizens? should they lose their citizenship?
14 August 2006
at 1:42 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

ma…

In a word, “yes.”

I also think that business owners that regularly hire illegal immigrants should have their businesses seized by the feds… and then auctioned off to law-abiding owners.

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
14 August 2006
at 1:56 p.m.

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ma (Anonymous) says…

so then…start with your own people. Most immigrants are the viticms of organizations that keep promising them the Americasn dream they will never achieve
14 August 2006
at 4:19 p.m.

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ljreader (Anonymous) says…

ma- I suppose criminals of any nationality are likely to cash in on any illegal activity where there is a profit to be made- I usually read about illegal immigrants participating in the manufacture and sale of document fraud- Stories like these:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/61855
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0606…
http://www.wlbt.com/Global/story.asp?…
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/st…
There are hundreds of more stories like these to be found, but we wouldn't want the truth or facts to get in your way.

My point was only that illegal immigrants have their butts covered by any deceptive and illegal means they can come by to make sure they get the provisions they are not entitled to-
So everyone who is worried that illegal immigrants will get short changed by any enforcement of our own laws-(gasp)- Don't be. They are quite capable and willing to commit fraud to make sure they are able to abuse the system.Many have got it down to an art.
I find it odd that if an American citizen was found scamming the system, the replies would be those of outrage- yet, it seems to be politically correct to defend identity theft and fraud commited by criminals who are here illegally.
Whoever is guilty of these crimes- I don't care who they are or where they're from-should be harshly punished, not defended.
14 August 2006
at 4:24 p.m.

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prioress (Anonymous) says…

“I find it odd that if an american citizen was (sic) found scamming the system, the replies would be those of outrage- yet, it seems to be politically correct to defend identity theft and fraud commited by criminals who are here illegally.”
++++++
Happens all the time, Bubba. Check the news stories for doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical manufacturers and other “friends” of BUSHCO.

14 August 2006
at 4:24 p.m.

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prioress (Anonymous) says…

“I find it odd that if an American citizen was found scamming the system, the replies would be those of outrage- yet, it seems to be politically correct to defend identity theft and fraud commited by criminals who are here illegally.”
++++++
Happens all the time, Bubba. Check the news stories for doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical manufacturers and other “friends” of BUSHCO.