Poll: Should the Lawrence City Commission approve a tax rebate for the Ciderworks Building near Eighth and Pennsylvania streets? / LJWorld.com

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Response		Percent	Votes
No		62%	219
Yes		28%	99
Not sure		9%	34
Total	352

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blindrabbit 10 months, 3 weeks ago

I voted yes, but not convinced that all the naysayers on the East side of town will want this! They seems to be anti-everything, even to their own detriment. Many are part of a remnant population that gravitated to Lawrence during the 1950's-60's that are stuck in the protest mindset.

streamfortyseven 10 months, 3 weeks ago

The people who ought to be getting tax rebates are ordinary taxpayers, not businesses. If a business is viable, then it can pay its own way. Tax rebates for businesses are often subsidies to landlords, anyway, and if we want to have market pressure to drive down rents, socking the taxpayer for them won't do the trick.

JackMcKee 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Hell no. The same goes for Olive Garden, Treanor, Compton, the whole lot of moochers.

And this new LJW mobile hijack/redirect sucks.

Frankie8 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Tony Ksnich wants to rehab the Ciderworks Building with an art gallery on the first floor and offices on the second. This, he claims, will support and advance arts in East Lawrence.

He want $500,000 in financial incentive aid and this will be rebated back to the developer by means of an NRA rebate over ten years. I don't understand this at all. If Ksnich is getting the money from the city shouldn't he pay it back? Why would he get a rebate?

What are the odds that I could borrow a thousand dollars from my bank and then get them to rebate it to me because I borrowed it?

Resolution 6954 outlines how this all works.

http://lawrenceks.org/assets/boards/pirc/06-19-12/Ciderworks_Memo--Incentive_Analytics%20_%28complete_file_6-14-12_.pdf

rockchalker52 10 months, 3 weeks ago

So how much property tax is the Ciderworks Building generating right now? How much will it generate 10 years from now if nobody develops its potential? Give Tony the 10-year abatement & we'll all be better off because of it.

CountyResident 10 months, 3 weeks ago

I guess you don't mind having your residential property taxes go up each year to make up for the short-fall in property taxes that are abated. Think: $30 million dollars for a new police station and 42 new police officers.

rockchalker52 10 months, 3 weeks ago

CR, I don't like tax increases, but not giving this abatement will not make my taxes any less or keep them from going up. If the property is developed into something more valuable it will produce more property tax in the long run. Letting it remain dilapidated will not raise significant revenue. Redevelopment will.

oneeye_wilbur 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Face it, the idiots in this town do not get it> As long as we have a City Commission that cannot get the public to understand and a city commission that continues to run off investors with new projects and their own money and NO request for tax abatement, go figure that one out. Lawrence is a cesspool of jealous, financially illiterate and a small group of developers that want to control everything. Lawrence should be glad that the guy from KC wants to do something with the property. Apparently, the local Fritzel and Compton royalty couldn't tackle the job. Not glamourous enough for them. :)

CountyResident 10 months, 3 weeks ago

I agree that the development will increase property tax revenue to the city. That is not the issue. The issue is how much this development will cost the city residential taxpayers in local taxes to pay for city services for this project. While an empty lot will of course not bring in near as much in tax revenue, it most likely will cost the city zero for services.

JackMcKee 10 months, 3 weeks ago

It's a fallacy that TIF generates revenue. Someone has to bear the cost of the increase burden on the infrastructure and that person is you, the family living in Lawrence. Property taxes exist to offset the burden development places on a community. Giving these developers a free ride just increases your taxes. Doug Compton, Fritzel, the whole lot are getting rich off the Lawrence taxpayer. I can't believe some of you are so naive that you don't realize this. It's time to put a stop to taxpayer financed development.

flyin_squirrel 10 months, 3 weeks ago

If a TIF is used for Infill development, it doesn't increase the burden on infrastructure, since the infrastructure is already there. Now, if you have to add miles of infrastructure to get to the property, then it is increasing the cities infrastructure.

And before you say it will increase the number of police officers, that is not true. Less area to patrol means less police officers. The larger the area (not people), the more police that are needed.

JackMcKee 10 months, 3 weeks ago

To quote an old idiom, if you make a deal with the devil, there is hell to pay

CountyResident 10 months, 3 weeks ago

I don't agree with either of your comments.

First, infrastructure costs will increase. The hotel and the apartments will require workers, guests and apartment dwellers. These folks will need to get to and from this facility either by city bus, car, etc. They will be using city streets. That's why they have a parking garage.

It is people that create the need for police officers, not how many miles they have to drive. Just look up how many police calls there have been to the Oread Hotel. This property also received tax breaks and is also an Infill development.

CountyResident 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Good point Jack.

oneeye_wilbur 10 months, 3 weeks ago

The Neighborhood Revitalization Act is a State of Kansas program. Cities and counties can participate. Can't the Journal World get this information straight?

The problem with the City Commission is that they pick and choose who can use it, instead of declaring an entire area eligible and thus anyone in the defined area could partake of the program.

It is so simple, and I guess that is why the simpleminded journalists do not give concrete examples of how it works.

If a small town in Atchison county understands it, why can't the idiots in this town get it figured out. Farmer buys vacant lot in town. Builds new home(creates construction jobs), gets his taxes on the new home rebated back over 10 years. Year #1 he gets 90% back, the next year #80% back and thus until the 10 years is up. Then, the house which is now going on 11 years old is fully taxed and the current valuation 11 years later. The idea is that the values go up. Whether they do or not, the small town has a fairly new house in it that otherwise it did not have.

Farmer before moving to town builds a new barn, he is still paying taxes on the farmstead no matter whether that vaulation goes up or down, he gets the incentive to build the new barn due to the State of Kansas program. Not, Atchison county, not Douglas county, not Franklin county.

It is so simple that I do not understand how any Journal World writer cannot convey the informaiton.

Make your choice. Vacant lots or new structures or invest in a different community. That choice is already being made.

flyin_squirrel 10 months, 3 weeks ago

OEW, nobody wants to listen and truly understand how Tax Incentives work. They would prefer Lawrence doesn't change and continues to have taxes go up. In fact, most people in Lawrence think these benefit districts cause their property taxes to go up, when in actuality the more developments we add, the greater the chances our property taxes go down.

Infill development not only will increase the value over time of that property, but also all the properties around it.

Don't expect people to research TIF, and Neighborhood Revitalization Act because they don't want to find out the true answer.

CountyResident 10 months, 3 weeks ago

To a limited degree, the property around the development could increase in value. But, if that development also benefits from a tax abatement, then it will not increase tax revenue to the city. And, you can assure yourself, that the developers of that property will ask for and most likely receive such a tax break. They would be a fool not to ask.

So, most of the burden to pay for city/county services and schools falls on the home owner.

Now to make matters worst, with Gov. Brownbacks' new income tax law that will exempt businesses from paying income taxes, homeowners and salary foks will get to chip in more in Kansas income taxes.