Archive for Friday, April 6, 2018

Letter to the editor: West no longer wild

April 6, 2018

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To the editor:

It was the Wild West.

Then a new sheriff came to town and said, “Boys, listen up: No Guns in Dodge!”

Then it was just the West.

It is time for history to repeat itself and get guns and gun ownership back under control in our country.

Comments

Bob Smith 1 month, 3 weeks ago

In other words, "to hell with the Constitution!"

Greg Cooper 1 month, 3 weeks ago

No, Bob. The writer is concerned that all people get the advantage of safety that the constitution supplies. Nobody who stands on the constitution can be against helping people without guns be safe from those who do. That's all, so just back off your illegitimate claims that anybody but you understands the constitution.

For cryin' out loud, nobody is going to make a serious run at eliminating the Second Amendment. But, regardless of your bawling, there can, and will, be serious attempts made at making gun safety a priority. Are you against that?

Bob Smith 1 month, 3 weeks ago

The usual suspects keep yammering about the need to repeal the Second Amendment. I'm taking them at their word. Are you one of the nattering class that doesn't want the Eddie the Eagle firearm safety class taught in schools?

Greg Cooper 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Maybe by now, had you actually read my posts and had an iota of reading comprehension, you'e know that I am not "yammering about the need to repeal the Second Amendment". In fact, in the post you responded to, I said exactly the opposite. And don't change the subject, Bob, when you have no understanding of or answer to my comment.

Brock Masters 1 month, 3 weeks ago

I don’t understand your statement about the Constitution supplying safety. I don’t see safety mentioned in the Constitution. I see affirmation of rights of the people and limits on government but nothing about safety.

Many are calling for the repeal of the 2nd Amendment so we need to take it seriously.

A suburb of Chicago has made certain rifles illegal and have given residents 60 days to turn them in. This law did not to stop gun violence but unfairly seizes property without compensation. The joke about the law is it is intended to ban assault weapons but only bans certain models of AR 15,style weapons while keeping others almost identical ones legal.

Bob Reinsch 1 month, 3 weeks ago

"This law did not stop gun violence" Dear Lord, man, the law was passed Monday night. You might want to go for a little bit longer sample period than 4 days.

Brock Masters 1 month, 3 weeks ago

It was a typo. Meant to say does not.

The ban does not ban all so-called assault weapons, but is limited to cosmetic features and some specific models. Criminals will ignore the ban and even if they did abide by it they will use a non-banned “assault” weapon.

Look the Deerfield ban up and tell me other than a symbolic act what sis they accomplish that will stop violence.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 1 month, 2 weeks ago

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." If you don't understand how this applies to safety, then buy a thesaurus.

Greg Cooper 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Yes, Brock, you do understand what I said. Remember the conversation we had a few days ago, about being right but not being right? You and I fundamentally agree to the need to come up with something that gives the nation a chance at helping reduce gun violence without overrunning the nearly religious Second Amendment. Chicago blew it, in that it did not address the base need: reducing gun violence by addressing the REASOINS for it.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

This I understand and agree with but not the statement that the Constitution supplies safety.

Greg Cooper 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Ok. You're right. And I'm still right. Can we just quit with the semantics issues and talk reality?

Bob Smith 1 month, 3 weeks ago

Upon reflection, I'd be okay with taking federal firearms laws back to where they were in 1933. There would be no regulation of full-auto weapons, there would be no regulation of SBRs, and the sale of firearms through the mail would be legal again.

David Reynolds 1 month, 3 weeks ago

In the wild west mentioned in the LTE above, people were allowed to own guns, they just weren't allowed to publicly/conceal carry guns in town. That's a far cry from the LTE author's intent.

The author is either "historically deprived" or intentionally trying to obfuscate the issue of the 2nd Amendment.

Andrew Applegarth 1 month, 2 weeks ago

You know it's going to be a fun read when they start off with a shootout caused by gun control laws as supporting evidence for gun control laws...

It's an interesting article, but quite biased in the writing and even then is contrary to the gun bans you so fervently support. They even quoted "Having a firearm to protect yourself in the lawless wilderness from wild animals, hostile native tribes, and outlaws was a wise idea." The hostile native tribes bit may not currently apply, but the other two still do. While cities and towns may hold around 80% of the population, they cover an underwhelming minority of the land. When I'm at my parents' farm, I almost never see a LEO unless I drive to the county seat and go by the police station. I know to allow about half an hour for them to arrive if called in an emergency. It takes longer for an ambulance plus the trip back to a hospital isn't short, so defending yourself to prevent injury is even more important in those kinds of locations. Of course, that's nothing compared to the remote areas of places like Wyoming and especially Alaska.

It's also interesting to note that they included this quote: "The buffalo hunters and range men have protested against the iron rule of Dodge's peace officers, and nearly every protest has cost human life." After including that, they switched to talking about murders to avoid having to count all of the killing done by LEOs for the simple protest of carrying the means of self defense. They did slack off and include the deaths at the O.K. Corral but didn't explain what they did and why Tombstone (1881) wasn't listed with Ellsworth (1873) and Dodge City (1876) as the worst if they had the same number of killings (5). They just hoped that they could slip that in without anybody noticing the switch from murders to killings so they could hide the discrepancy.

But, the worst was when they said the worst violence was in towns that " lack effective law enforcement, a functioning judicial system, and firearm law" and somehow conclude that the last one is the important one. Never mind that without the first two the third one is irrelevant. Never mind that without the first one, the second two are irrelevant. Never mind that mining boom towns were low risk / high reward and would not have followed the pattern of more established (higher risk / lower reward) towns even if they had all three of those things in place. No, the gun bans 'worked' because of the presence of law enforcement and the fact that those they killed were not considered to be murdered even if they committed no other crime than being armed.

David Reynolds 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Dorothy, thank you for providing support for my comments.

The story said, people could own guns & keep them in their homes and carry & use them outside the city limits.

Not all towns had these rules.

For time immemorial the search has always been on to find a way to deal with violent people. But in doing so, even in the old west there was no attempt to deprive people of their constitutional rights like the attempts today.

I might suggest we deal with societal issues such as bullying, violent movies, video games, & violence on TV. People bully each other thru social media & I have seen it happen in this blogosphere. People being bullied retreat from society & resentment builds up. Additionally, some groups in society tend to communicate identity politics & victimhood, & how people can't escape their victim situation. All of these issues lead to built up anger, resentment & ultimately a striking out at society, which is acted out physically.

From what I have read students that have been bullied are twice as likely to bring a gun to school. if this is true, that is a great place to start.

The gun isn't the issue, any device can be used. The only reason a gun was used in the Columbine school shooting is because bombs that had been set by the shooters didn't explode.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 1 month, 2 weeks ago

So, will the NRA allow cities to make people keep their guns at home? In Kansas a city would be sued. I don't care if people own guns, but the only times they should come out of their house is to go to the firing range or go hunting. And I think they should be required to keep their guns secured. Anytime a child can get to a gun and cause an "accident" the owner of the gun should be held criminally and monetarily responsible. That doesn't happen often enough.

Andrew Applegarth 1 month, 2 weeks ago

You forget one other thing about the gun bans in the "Wild West". They weren't really aimed at the citizens of the town. They were aimed at the outlaws and trail crews. Unless the town was so small that everybody with a front door in town could walk out their back door and be out of town, there had to be provision for transporting your gun between home and city limits. I'm sure that more flagrant abuses of this were dealt with, especially when the trail crews were in town and already unhappy with the law, but I'm also sure that law enforcement tended to look the other way when you stopped at the diner, the general store, the saloon, and so forth while armed because you were on your way to the livery to get your horse and ride out of town (even if you never made it to the livery). Further, just like today, I'm sure the big shots and town officials carried regularly even if not openly because they didn't believe the law applied to them (and made sure that the local law knew that as well).

Andrew Applegarth 1 month, 2 weeks ago

If you are as concerned about gun accidents by children as you claim (instead of just seeing more support for your agenda), can I count on you to support the NRA Eddie Eagle (or similar) program in schools so that kids have factual knowledge about guns and gun safety in case they ever come across one instead of just going by what they see on TV and in video games?

Perhaps you could review the handling and storage suggestions from the NRA and tell me which ones you disagree with?

https://gunsafetyrules.nra.org/

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Every state in the Union has some form of legal concealed carry, Dorothy. That genie is not going back in the bottle because you say so.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

"...So, will the NRA allow cities to make people keep their guns at home?..." I expect that federal courts will put the kibosh on such blatantly unconstitutional laws.

David Reynolds 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Dorothy, you may want to read the Mission Statement of the NRA, & then ask them your question. I can not, nor can anyone else, answer your question.

As for the rest of your comment, I can only say you are welcome to your opinions.

The NRA Mission Statement is: The NRA’s mission statement, summarized from its bylaws, is: "To protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, especially with reference to the inalienable right of the individual American citizen guaranteed by such Constitution to acquire, possess, collect, exhibit, transport, carry, transfer ownership of, and enjoy the right to use arms." The statement also includes a focus on promoting public safety, training in the safe and efficient handling of small arms, hunter safety, and shooting sport promotion.

Additionally, you should read and understand why the 2nd amendment was included in the constitution, and also read historically what happens to societies when guns are taken from the people...The Black Laws after the Civil War, Hitler vs the Jews, why the Japanese did not invade the USA after Pearl Harbor when the Japanese had the clear advantage, etc.

As I said earlier, and you have ignored my comments, it's not the guns it's the societal violence taught & supported by the citizens.

As long as some in society continue to focus on an inanimate object nothing will change. it's the societal problem(s) creating the need by some to strike out against others that's the problem. As I said attackers use many weapons other than guns.

Thus the question; Why pick on guns only?

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

The days when a sheriff could nullify the Constitution for people under his rule are far in the past now.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

According to NPR: "...Since 1993, the United States has seen a drop in the rate of homicides and other violence involving guns, according to two new studies released Tuesday. Using government data, analysts saw a steep drop for violence in the 1990s, they saw more modest drops in crime rates since 2000. "Firearm-related homicides dropped from 18,253 homicides in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011," according to a report by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics, "and nonfatal firearm crimes dropped from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 in 2011. There were seven gun homicides per 100,000 people in 1993, the Pew Research Center study says, which dropped to 3.6 gun deaths in 2010. The study relied in part on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49 percent lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation's population grew," according to the Pew study. "The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75 percent lower in 2011 than in 1993."..." https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/05/07/181998015/rate-of-u-s-gun-violence-has-fallen-since-1993-study-says

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

And in that part of the world formerly known as Great Britain: https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/sta... I've been carrying a pocketknife since I was about 12 years old & haven't stabbed anyone yet.

Richard Heckler 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Violent politicians will say anything to shut americans up about guns when in reality are only waiting for this massive teen slaughter situation to run out of steam.

Review all new regulations and legislation as elected officials are notorious for providing loop holes.

Gun sales finance special interest political campaigns. Can we say no more special interest political donations.

This is why the loud voices for replacing all laws with a few new regulations need to stay active and loud.

Assault weapons must be taken off the retail market, the black market and not allowed in gun shows. Then make it a felony to own or sell one!!!!

Military and law enforcement weapons when retired MUST be melted down and perhaps brought back as picnic tables, lawn furniture, rebar etc etc etc.

Arming teachers is shallow thinking. Security officers are acceptable HOWEVER they cannot stop an action if they don't when a shooting is going to take place or where it will take place

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

"...Security officers are acceptable HOWEVER they cannot stop an action if they don't when a shooting is going to take place or where it will take place..." You're saying we need fortune tellers? It's for darned sure they can't stop an action if they're hiding outside a building when gunshots are being heard from inside.

Richard Heckler 1 month, 2 weeks ago

The majority want stiff new regulations for private ownership of weapons.

The majority approve of the currently standing WELL REGULATED MILITIA aka USA Armed Forces. It appears "WELL REGULATED" IS THE DRUG OF CHOICE AS OPPOSED TO ZERO REGULATED.

Bob Smith 1 month, 1 week ago

"...If you set out to write a parody of gun control, it might look like the real news from London, where guns don't kill people, knives do..." http://thefederalist.com/2018/04/13/britains-knife-control-bad-parody-gun-control/

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