Archive for Sunday, October 1, 2017

5 people shot in downtown Lawrence; 3 dead

Police rule out drive-by, believe shots followed ‘physical altercation’

Lawrence police investigate the scene of a shooting incident on Massachusetts Street between 10th and 11th streets that left three people dead and injured others early Sunday morning.

Lawrence police investigate the scene of a shooting incident on Massachusetts Street between 10th and 11th streets that left three people dead and injured others early Sunday morning.

October 1, 2017, 1:56 a.m. Updated October 1, 2017, 8:08 p.m.

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Lawrence Police are investigating after at least five people were shot — three fatally — just before 1:40 Sunday morning in downtown Lawrence, according to a news release from Officer Derrick Smith.

The exact location of the multiple shooting wasn't clear but police had blocked off Massachusetts Street between 10th and 11th streets around 2 a.m., and it remained blocked for the next 12 hours as forensic investigators collected evidence. Police believe the shooting stemmed from a "physical altercation" that occurred near the northwest corner of 11th and Massachusetts streets, the department said in a news release late Sunday.

Interim Police Chief Anthony Brixius said police, who are headquartered in the 1100 block of Massachusetts, heard 20-plus gunshots and responded to the scene, along with medical personnel.

At the scene, officers encountered a large crowd and several victims suffering from gunshot wounds, Smith said in the release. Five victims have been identified from the shooting, and three sustained fatal injuries: 22-year-old Leah Elizabeth Brown, of Shawnee, 20-year-old Colwin Lynn Henderson, of Topeka, and 24-year-old Tremel Dupree Dean, of Topeka.

Two other victims were being treated at area hospitals for nonlife-threatening injuries, Smith said.

Brixius said just before 3 a.m. that no one had been detained in the shooting and he could not say whether more than one suspect was involved. Police did say in a tweet late Sunday that the shooting was not a drive-by.

Crime scene tape was stretched across storefronts in the 1000 block of Massachusetts Street. In front of Aladdin Cafe, 1021 Massachusetts St., a pool of blood was visible.

Lawrence resident Kyeeton Soukup told the Journal-World that he was in Pyramid Pizza, 1029 Massachusetts St., when someone came in from outside and shouted, "Oh my God, there has been a shooting outside!"

Crime scene tape stretches across the intersection of 11th and Massachusetts streets early Sunday morning after multiple reported shootings in downtown Lawrence.

Crime scene tape stretches across the intersection of 11th and Massachusetts streets early Sunday morning after multiple reported shootings in downtown Lawrence.

Soukup, who had not himself heard the shots, said he ran outside and encountered two shooting victims on the sidewalk not far from Watkins Community Museum on the corner of 11th and Massachusetts. He immediately ran to find a defibrillator, he said, but as he returned, emergency personnel were already on the scene.

An employee of It's Brothers, who did not want his name used, told the Journal-World that the shooting appeared to have occurred in the 1000 block of Massachusetts Street. He said he did not hear any shots but observed a lot of commotion to the north.

At least one helicopter ambulance had been called, but it wasn't clear if it transported anyone.

Articles of clothing and other items line the sidewalk early Sunday morning at the northwest corner of 11th and Massachusetts streets, in front of the Watkins Community Museum. A shooting in downtown Lawrence left three people dead.

Articles of clothing and other items line the sidewalk early Sunday morning at the northwest corner of 11th and Massachusetts streets, in front of the Watkins Community Museum. A shooting in downtown Lawrence left three people dead.

According to Operation 100 News, the Journal-World's news partner, police were standing by outside of Lawrence Memorial Hospital as a “large crowd of possible family members” gathered there shortly after the shootings.

Zach Ziesmer, a Lawrence Uber driver, told the Journal-World that it had been a busy night in Lawrence, with Late Night in the Phog having occurred earlier in the evening at Allen Fieldhouse, as well as a large concert at the Granada, 1020 Massachusetts St., featuring a guest appearance by rapper Lil Yachty, who had performed earlier at Late Night.

Mike Logan, the owner of the Granada, said he does not believe the shooting stems from any incidents that happened at his club during the concert. He said his security staff reported nothing unusual during the concert. He noted that the concert ended at 12:30 a.m. and that the club closed at 1 a.m., which was about 40 minutes before the shootings. He said his club also requires all patrons to be scanned with a metal detector wand and to be patted down before entering.

Forensic investigators work Sunday morning on the corner of 11th and Massachusetts streets next to Watkins Community Museum. About 11:30 a.m., the street was still blocked off to traffic after a shooting about 10 hours earlier left three people dead and others injured.

Forensic investigators work Sunday morning on the corner of 11th and Massachusetts streets next to Watkins Community Museum. About 11:30 a.m., the street was still blocked off to traffic after a shooting about 10 hours earlier left three people dead and others injured.

Ziesmer, who is frequently in downtown as part of his Uber job, said, "Something felt wrong" about the evening "even before this happened."

Ziesmer said he did not witness any of the violence, but as he arrived near the scene of the shooting about 2:30 a.m., he saw what appeared to be a body on the ground. A blue tarp later covered that area.

"I have lived here a year," Ziesmer said. "Lawrence has its fair share of violence, but for it to be right on Massachusetts Street seems kind of unreal."

The Journal-World obtained a copy of a Facebook Live video seemingly taken shortly after the shooting. The video shows a chaotic scene centered at the northwest corner of 11th and Massachusetts streets in front of Watkins Community Museum. The video shows Lawrence police officers on the scene administering CPR. An ambulance crew arrived a few minutes later.

The area was crowded with people, presumably exiting downtown bars that were closing for the evening. Many of the people were walking just feet from the graphic scene. The Journal-World is not publishing the video because of its graphic content and the ongoing nature of the police investigation.

The presence of the video-taker created some disturbance around the scene, as you could hear people urging the man to stop shooting footage of the victim. But the man continued to shoot video for more than 11 minutes, at one point saying: “This (expletive) is crazy. You all are watching it live.” Another man interjected: “We ain’t going to watch him die, though.”

About 2 miles away at Lawrence Memorial Hospital, the scene was tragic in the parking lot outside the emergency room. Several people were trying to console a young man who was screaming, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry.” A man in a hospital gown briefly exited the hospital and hugged several people who were part of a crowd of about 20 people that had gathered outside the entrance to the emergency room.

None of the three victims, all in their 20s, attended the University of Kansas.

One of the victims, Henderson, had recently become a new father.

The mother of his child, Destiny Jackson, of Topeka, told the Journal-World via Facebook that "Colwin was the most down to earth person I've ever met. ... He gave me the greatest gift I could ever ask for, our daughter, who he adored and loved so deeply. ... Her first word was Dada. ... My promise to him is to make him proud and always remind our daughter of him how much he loved her."

Officers are seeking assistance in identifying the suspect or suspects. Anyone with information or video related to the incident is asked to contact the Lawrence Police Department at 785-832-7509 or Crime Stoppers of Lawrence and Douglas County at 785-843-TIPS. Tips made to Crime Stoppers may remain anonymous.

Check back with this report and the Lawrence Journal-World for updates on this breaking story.

— Journal-World managing editor Kim Callahan and reporter Mac Moore contributed to this article.


Operation 100 News provides overnight news coverage for the Lawrence Journal-World. Follow on Twitter for real-time updates.

Comments

Richard Heckler 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Time to repeal recent gun laws I'd say ...... quickly!

Henry Joseph Hofmeister 1 month, 2 weeks ago

So you think those guns were from in town? Maybe from students in the bathrooms?

Steve Jacob 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Panora's Box has been opened, too hard to close.

Henry Joseph Hofmeister 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Hey Bill, we really don't need big name people at late night. Just keep tech9 and local names. Local names like our team. On another note, ku athletic director, please understand that a blackout tv and streaming of all ku bball in kansas and kansas city leads to anything free leads to this being THE one night to bring in topeka, wichita, and kcmo residents that can't afford KUsports packages from espn. those couple adidas guys that tried the backdoor could have just tried to make all broadcasts free in the local area and make every superstar in the midwest want to come to ku honestly. show ku to poor kids instead of keeping it all on pay per view.

Bob Summers 1 month, 2 weeks ago

After 8 years of Liberal rule, let's take a look at possible reasons this gun play took place in a complex, diversity village like Lawrence.

Seventy five percent of the country makes less than $30,000 per year.

-On-third of adults over the age of 30 are living with their parents for economic reasons.

-The college loan fiasco will be the next housing crash of 2008.

-Over 300,000 waitresses and waiters have college degrees.

Our nation’s economy has gone from first to fourteenth and is rapidly plummeting.

-Some polling groups ranks America as low as 44th, behind Romania, in civil liberties.

-Despite our 24/7/365 access to entertainment America ranks 14th in happiness levels.

-In the United States, suicide has replaced car accidents as the number one cause of death.

-Since 1968, suicide for Americans between the ages of 15-24 has skyrocketed by 310%

-An estimated 20-25% of the country is on mind-numbing psychotropic drugs. Seventy percent of foster children are on these drugs which bring structural changes and damage to young brains.

-We are now seeing East German Stasi type interrogation centers being used against American citizens who are not even charged with a crime (e.g. Chicago Black Sites).

-DHS and the Clergy Response Team have greatly compromised the spoken word of the Bible. Most churches and their pastors fall under the category of “false prophets”. In other words, today’s American churches are centers of deception.

-The U.S. economy is nearly $19 trillion dollars in debt.

-The U.S. government owes $240 trillion dollars in unfunded mandated liabilities to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.

-The bankers have coerced the government to push their derivatives debt upon the American people. This debt amounts to about $1.5 quadrillion dollars with an annual interest rate of $505 trillion dollars. The entire GDP of the planet is under $70 trillion. America could not pay off this debt by the 50th century.

-Despite spending in excess of 10 times more for health care as any other nation, we only have the 51st longest life span. We live, on average, a full one year less than the a Cuban living in a third world country.

-Post-secondary education is the most expensive in the world as is health care.

-The U.S., despite having only 4% of the population, has over 25% of the world’s prison population.

Rosemary Morris 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Are you talking about Economics 101 or the shootings on Mass Street?

Bob Summers 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Congenital Liberals do not have the aptitude to fully load the "cause and effect" of their ideology.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Typical drivel from "Bob" It took him only 4 words to scream " LIB ERAL, LIBERAL, LIBERAL!!!!!" He is to be ignored.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

The odds are very high that the shooter couldn't have legally owned a firearm. Criminals tend to not obey laws. That what makes them criminals.

P Allen Macfarlane 1 month, 2 weeks ago

It could just as easily been someone legally carrying a firearm, being a little drunk, getting into a dispute with someone, and using that firearm poorly in a crowded scene.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Highly unlikely. We'll find out after the miscreant has been arrested.

Don Brennaman 1 month, 2 weeks ago

How do you know the number of miscreants? You sure there was no self defense involved?

Bob Forer 1 month, 2 weeks ago

At least 20 shots sounds like more than one shooter. Sounds more like a short gun battle.

Henry Joseph Hofmeister 1 month, 2 weeks ago

First rule of teaching firearm safety. DON'T TELL ANYONE ELSE you have been doing it. Don't tell anyone you have a gun. Don't tell them you are concealed carry. Don't paste it on your facebook or look up info on your computer. Just go to a gunshop and learn from a real person. Not a computer. The gun belongs to someone. Now that person is guilty or is going to be looking over their back for the actual guilty.

Sheldon Shogrin 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Richard Heckler, this was not because of gun laws. This was because of the hip hop culture. Violence, especially gun violence, is glorified in the culture and community. I would bet money that if the perp and gun are found, it's an illegally obtained weapon, so strict gun laws would not have kept this from happening. England has a complete ban on handguns, but yet gun violence/crime does happen in the UK. Blame the people, the culture...not the object used. We also have a problem with law enforcement...they have contributed heavily to gun violence in 'merica. There is actual real video of cops giving guns to gangs, and even planting weapons on people they have just shot. This is all part of the government's plan to keep us split to rule over us more easily.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

"...There is actual real video of cops giving guns to gangs..." Link, please?

Jack Pershing 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Well it didn't take long for the anti second amendment crowd to start spouting stupidity. More gun laws!

In retrospect how could this have happened in liberal utopia Lawrence? Maybe it was infighting among Antifa members,,, or another Bernie Sanders supporter like the one that opened fire on Republican congressman in DC.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Murder is illegal, but the response is to change or add new gun laws? Please explain to me what new gun law would prevented this from happening?

Unless you repeal the 2nd amendment, confiscate all firearms and secure our borders so no guns can be smuggled in criminals will always have guns.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

I'd speculate on the hometown of the shooter, but that might offend the pretentious old bustard that got his knickers in a knot last time I did that.

Jack Pershing 1 month, 2 weeks ago

P Allen nice try but you and I both know that's not what happened.

Brock you beat me to it. I was just getting ready to ask what new gun law the anti gun crowd wants would have stopped this. If they told the truth what they really want in their hearts is gun confiscation. Then all law abiding citizens would be unarmed while criminals walk among them still armed with the illegal guns they had anyway. Because they are u know....... criminals.

Jack Pershing 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Let me help out here. Based on statistics, reality, and national trend this is your shooter(s)--

Black male age 20-30 Previous criminal record

Curtis Martell 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Interesting to read a bunch of white guys do the analysis on this one.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

What does race have to do with the analysis? You sound racist.

Curtis Martell 1 month, 2 weeks ago

I knew that would be the response - that I would be accused of racism. From one statement written not spoken and you can draw that conclusion Why would you say that? You don't know who I am.. Like I said it is interesting to read the comments. I have my thoughts about what these previous comments belie, but I'm keeping that mostly to myelf.

I live and work in Lawrence and I read the paper, read the comments, and know this town very, very well. Aside from the KU population, it's pretty much a white town.

I'll give you one example of why it's interesting. Early Morning Bob Summers first line of comment is "After 8 years of Liberal rule lets look at possible causes. " With an intro like that, well lets say I have pretty good idea where this guy is coming from.

Now if Early Morning Bob's conclusion is that this crime was committed because of so called "Liberal Rule" (and there was more!) then he doesn't really understand the people involved in the crime, and I mean the shooters, the victims and their families. He doesn't understand the root causes of this kind of crime. I'm not really a victim, but I'm feeling this crime, my office is right around the corner from the crime scene and I spend a lot of time in this area of downtown.

So that is just one example of how I think the comments are intersting. Thanks for the oppurtunity to comment. Wish I had time I'd write an essay about it.

Sincerly, White Guy.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

First, appreciate the response.

Second, I said you sound racist - not that you are, just you sound racist since you interjected race where in my opinion it is not relevant.

I would not have wrote it if you had said interesting comments from conservatives or pro-2nd amendment people, but I did because you focused race which has absolutely nothing to do with who a person is or their ability to be an arm chair analyst.

Curtis Martell 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Brock, I get it. One pithy comment can be read in many differnet ways. I should stop doing that. I didn't want to get into a long dialog about it but...Yes I brought up race because race implied in some parts of previous comments. Race is coloring all our public discourse recently as I'm sure you have noticed.

So for example of how race entered the discussion before me. There is a comment "The odds are high the shooter couldn't legally owned a firearm. Criminals tend to not obey laws. That what makes them criminals".

How did this poster come to this conclusion? I have my thoughts on why and how he came to his conclusion based on the small amount of information contatined in the LJWorld article. Another reason the comments are interesting.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

I didn’t see race in that comment. I agree with it based on two points not related to race. 1. The venue and age of victims. Not certain, but good chance shooter was under 21 and 2. Again, not certain, a person who legally owns and possesses a gun is less likely to commit the heinous crime of murdering others.

The gun could very well be legally owned, but probably not. Criminals don’t want guns traceable to them.

Curtis Martell 1 month, 2 weeks ago

I see the race embedded in the comment like this:. First the article mentions a show a rap show and special guest rap artist at the Granada. They have a lot of hip hop shows at Granada and hip-hop shows bring in a lot of black people to attend from out of town. As mentioned by a previous post, and contained in the articles is the fact the victims were from out of town, one from Topeka in fact. So since it's a hip hop show attended by a lot of young black people, the writer concluded the perpatrator must be black and be a criminal and was possesing the fireams illegally. Unless you make an assumption the shooter was under 21 in wich case he would be correct, but. And with that assumption, the fact it was a hip hop show attended by young out of town black people, he can then conclude the shooter was a criminal before actual crime we are discussing took place based on the available information and race.

Possessing a firearm illegally in Kansas is actually difficult if you are over 21, not a Felon, or for some other crimes such as domestic abuse.

So that is one example of how I think race was injected into the discussion before my comments.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

I think you are reading way too much into the comment and you, by making assumptions about white guys and how they perceive a sistuation based solely on skin color makes you guilty of doing exactly what you suggest they are doing -,stereotyping based on race.

Black or white, the odds are high that someone who has total disregards for laws and human life to murder young people was not in legal possession of the gun.

Curtis Martell 1 month, 2 weeks ago

It's been interesting reading a bunch of white guys do the analysis on this tradgedy.

Greg DiVilbiss 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Just curious how you happen to know the race people posting? Unless you know them personally.

Richard Heckler 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Lenient gun laws make it easier for criminals to carry or until one becomes a criminal such as in domestic violence.

Wouldn't have been just wonderful had one or some NOT criminals decided to bring out their legal concealed guns to do battle with the alleged shooter(s) in a crowd of people?

Just a thought...

Lawrence has certainly become violent since 1987 when at that moment it was very quiet and peaceful. Population growth and legal concealed has been changing Lawrence.

Why is crime in Lawrence a growing concern ? It's not good for business.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

But no NOT criminals opened fire into the crowd did they?

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Sure I do. Nothing in article to suggest that is what happens. And if they weren’t criminals they would have stayed at the scene and identified themselves.

Plus you acknowledged it didn’t happen when you wrote had one....

Wanna bet who is right?

BTW Richard what new law would have stopped this?

Louie White 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Close Granada or move it out by the Outhouse, period. Too big of crowd assemblage on a consistent basis for the well-being of downtown. Black/White -- who cares. It draws a rough crowd, and fear is a money-loser for downtown. Condolences for the victims and their families.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Makes sense considering churches are targets. Just had another race motivated church shooting. Black guy did the shooting this time.

Richard Quinlan 1 month, 2 weeks ago

An open letter to our judges... Start locking these folks up. Seems the past history of trying to deal with criminals in the community with a soft hand is failing us mightily. You look at most of these events and the principals have multiple court related events before they are involved in a shooting / robbery violent crime. The town is full of them , un or underemployed creating havoc in their families and then on unsuspecting others. Quit turning them back out on the street. Build a damn prison farm and put them to work if nothing else.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Agreed. Make criminals serve their full sentences and make sure they are long for violent crimes.

Make room for them by eliminating prison time for people whose only offense is drug use.

Jack Pershing 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Richard Heckler "Lenient gun laws make it easier for criminals to carry or until one becomes a criminal such as in domestic violence."

How exactly do "lenient gun laws" make it easier for criminals to carry one? What does that even mean? Please give us some examples. Criminals carry guns because they break the law on the regular. Misdemeanors, the occasional felony, it doesn't matter because they don't respect the law. They carry guns whether it's against the law or not. So how do "lenient gun laws" make that easier? I'm eagerly awaiting your response.

"Lawrence has certainly become violent since 1987"

Based on what? Statistics and records? Or just your opinion? Are you really trying to infer that Lawrence is a "violent" town? Let's also point out that the population of Lawrence was probably half of what it is now in 1987. Let's also point out that Lawrence residents love to bag on Topeka and KC and Topeka is the ultra scary hood to Lawrence folks. But let's also point out Lawrence folks love that Topeka and KC tax money that flows into KU and that Topeka and KC tuition and rent money, coupled with that Topeka and KC money spent at bars, hotels, restaurants etc. in Lawrence. That's never an issue is it?

Lawrence isn't a violent place. Neither is Topeka. If you go looking for trouble in Topeka yes you will find it. But it's far from a violent city. Bars and bar crowds breed this type of stuff and that's what you have here.

I also find it interesting how Lawrence touts itself as the bastion of inclusiveness, diversity, and open minded liberal thinking surrounded by all those dumb backwards Kansans. Well as long as your gay, transgender, Muslim, etc. But if your from Topeka your a dangerous violent undesirable

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

It amazes me how far liberals go in acceptance of Muslims and excusing the violent acts committed in the name of Islam.

At the core of Islamic faith is viewing women as second-class citizens and condemning gays, even to the point of murdering them in other countries.

And, don’t forget the practice of genitalia mutilation.

Jack Pershing 1 month, 2 weeks ago

You won't get an answer Brock. I asked the same question.

I love the fake made up scenarios ---Uhhhh ya but what if a legal responsible gun owner showed up in the crowd and just opened fire? Hahaha. Ya!! And what if a space ship landed and aliens armed with Ray guns descended upon the scene!!! Just complete nonsense. There's no limit to the lengths they will stretch too or how stupid they will make themselves look to keep pushing a narrative that simply isn't there.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

The other false narrative is that they don’t want to ban guns. Yes, that is exactly what they want.

I offer this up because I know the hypocrites would never agree, but yes I will give up my right to own and possess a gun if it is universal. No non-LEO or military person may posess a gun - no armed private security for celebrities, no armed security for politicians outside of their workplace, no carrying when off duty for LEOs.

In other words, only criminals will go around armed in public and no one will be safe.

Jennifer Harrison 1 month, 2 weeks ago

This was predicted and the LPD asked our city commissioners for some assistance by installing video cameras in our downtown area, which they DENIED!! It would have been helpful for the police to have video of the incident to aid in their investigation!!!

Fred Whitehead Jr. 1 month, 2 weeks ago

the Second Amendment says, in part, "A well-regulated militia"............it should be adhered to.

Brian Dawber 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Regulation is needed, though a well regulated militia refers to a force that is raised by a civil population to supplement a military force in an emergency.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 1 month, 2 weeks ago

There was no organized military force in the United States in the eighteenth century.

Hudson Luce 1 month, 2 weeks ago

except for the Continental Army (1775), the Marine Corps (1785), the US Navy (1775) ...

Brandon Devlin 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Fred gets countered with facts all of the time. . .he just ignores them.

Debbie Shafer 1 month, 2 weeks ago

A would be shooter is going to have access to a gun whether gun laws are changed or not. It's like putting a padlock on a door after someone broke in previously. AND this could have been as simple as someone hitting on someone else's significant other, or someone accidentally bumping into another person. "Sidewalk rage". What is wrong with some of you. We have become so intolerant of others actions which creates anger.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 1 month, 2 weeks ago

It's the mindset about guns that has changed, because of the NRA and forcing people to allow guns anywhere. Now everyone is suppose to have a gun. Don't like your neighbor's tall grass. Shoot them. Don't like the loud music coming from the car next to you? Shoot them.

Kendall Scoboria 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Can we all please stop for a brief second to come together as a community and mourn what just happened? Three young adults died on our city streets last night. Their light went out in this world. Others were wounded. Others witness to undue violence. Many will be forever effected by this. It's a terrible, terrible tragedy. I can't imagine what their families are going through right now.

There is time for politicking. It is easy to point fingers. But first, ask yourself how you would have felt to be downtown last night. Ask yourself what it would feel like to lose your child this way. Stop and feel it. This shook an entire community. Anger is part of the process. So is misery and commiseration and tenderness. Let us not forget those essential parts of healing that this community must go through.

Kylee Manahan 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Thank you Kendall!!!!!!!!!!! This doesn't happen here. I am born and raised in Lawrence and all I could think was "this doesn't happen here". Back in the 60's we seemed to always have trouble with people from Topeka, but they would be fights NOT MURDER!

Kylee Manahan 1 month, 2 weeks ago

By the way, in my statement I did not mention color. In the 60's they were usually white.

Jack Pershing 1 month, 2 weeks ago

It's does say that Fred you are correct. It also says a citizens right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed upon. You left that out.

Jack Pershing 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Kendall I hear what your saying but unfortunately we as conservatives must speak up when these things happen. Because we are already behind the left which knocks over paramedics and pushes aside victims to mount their pulpits upon their chests as the smoke is still clearing. The left adheres to Alinskys tactic of never let a good tragedy go to waste so I like others can't stand by anymore. The left has brought this upon our country where literally every aspect of life is now political. (NFL Sunday anybody) look at the very first post on this article if you need some more proof.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 1 month, 2 weeks ago

The Second Amendment was written 200 years ago when it was necessary for survival to own weapons for hunting and for national defense.

Today we have the U.S. military establishment.....Today we have the supermarket to buy our food and supplies without having to fire a shot.

Yes, we have hunters who regard the sport as a useful and necessary thing and they should not be restricted. But they do not need military style weapons of war to shoot game.

There needs to be some sanity in our approach to gun ownership. But the thorny issue is what constitutes "sane issues" and who is to decide. We are apparently not doing well with this issue.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

The Constitution is merely as set of suggestions, right Fred? The Bill of Rights and the Electoral College can be discarded on a whim by your rules.

Mike Riner 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Fred, it has been pointed out to you many times on this forum.....the 2nd amendment is also there (main reason in my opinion) to protect us FROM our own government! It's not about hunting or grocery stores.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Exactly, and someone like Fred who fears a Trump dictatorship should understand and support the 2nd amendment for that very reason.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 1 month, 2 weeks ago

So........you are saying that if the government does something you do not like......you get your guns and go get "them"?? Like the shooter at the baseball game??

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Oh Fred, you know exactly what I mean. Really, I expect better from you.

You have compared Trump to Hitler. Time or two and predicted we will become the 4th Reich. Let’s say you’re right. Would you not resist, even violently if that prediction came true or would you be a good little Trump nazi?

Even with guns, the odds are against those that would resist, but look t Viet Nam and Afghanistan. They’ve fought back the US and Russia.

The shooting of the Congressman was a cowardly act and one not justified since we are not being killed under an oppressive government. We have non-violent ways to affect change.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

We have clearly defined what is legal and what isn’t when it comes to gun ownership and use. The problem is criminals don’t care.

We have similar issues with the first amendment too. It is used for illegal activity - libel, slander, assault, murder and terrorism. How do you allow free expression and stop criminal activity? It is a challenge, but many accept the risks that come with liberty. They’d rather be free than secure.

Richard Aronoff 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Nobody saw the shooter? How about installing surveillance cameras? You have no expectation of privacy on a public street.

Ray Mizumura 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Three human beings are dead in the streets of our Lawrence, victims of murder, yet some people see an opportunity to score points among their like-minded citizens by bitching about Topeka, black people, and liberals.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Ray, perhaps I missed it, but I didn’t read any comments bitching about black people. Did I miss it or did you make it up?

Dustyn Polk 1 month, 2 weeks ago

You might want to scroll back up. There are plenty of comments concerning people of darker skin pigments. I honestly cannot bring myself to believe that you are so oblivious that comments concerning Topeka, the hip hop culture, as well as Bob what's-his-name having his big rant about 'liberal rule', meaning a direct swipe at former President Obama.

Really, are you that dense that you can't notice the implied nature of any of those comments? While I do admit that the culture that pervades today is one of violence, it is certainly not limited to people that are of the darker skin pigments. Violence isn't merely immediate.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Insults are the best you got? I don't have mind reading ability nor do I see the boogie man where he isn't. White people like rap, white people live in Topeka and white people murder people so I don't see how the comments were about black people. You may surmise that but that isn't proof.

Curtis Martell 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Brock we had this dicussion earlier today. Scroll up. It's not made up.

In fact scrolling down will reaval some more examples.

Dustyn Polk 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Ray...

Children try to impress others and score brownie points. Adults concern themselves with tragedies.

Apparently, you are an adult.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

The first person to comment on this thread was waving the bloody shirt for political gain.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 1 month, 2 weeks ago

I don't think Richard is running for office. Go play with your little gun, Bob.

Shawn Boultinghouse 1 month, 2 weeks ago

What is wrong with people? You don't use deadly force just because you are pissed off at someone. Was this person scared of a group of people in their face? Doesn't Lawrence still have a law that you cannot have a gun within 200 feet of a bar? If so, they completely ignored that gun law.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

“Doesn't Lawrence still have a law that you cannot have a gun within 200 feet of a bar?”

Why didn’t someone tell the shooter this? I am sure they would have left their gun at home if they had known.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

The state law against local preemption struck that down years ago.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Try and keep up Shawn. State law has forced Lawrence to allow guns in bars, dorms, churches, etc. Just pretty much everywhere.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Not completely true. All a bar or church has to do is put up a sign and then guns are not legally allowed there.

David Holroyd 1 month, 2 weeks ago

A very good reason a grocery store would have never made it at !!th and Mass with all the bars nearby. Maybe Queens Price Shopper will realize that even on New Hampshire it won't either Downtown offers a ready made clienttele for drug sales. If the city commissioners would get out and observe what goes on around the bars and especially at closing THEY WOULD SEE THE LIGHT.

David Holroyd 1 month, 2 weeks ago

But then they cannot even fix a roof at a Mausolem ( btw it doesn't even need one). Bars at 14th and Ohio have problems...and the time is coming for a shooting in that area and it already happened at the Cave ...short memories.

There is money in booze sales and money in drug sales. The two go together in a college town with the proximity to KC , Topeka and Junction City...does anyone remember the problems with folks coming from Junction City to Lawrence.

If only the Journal World would revive some articles...fat chance in that happening.

Richard Heckler 1 month, 2 weeks ago

"It could just as easily been someone legally carrying a firearm, being a little drunk, getting into a dispute with someone, and using that firearm poorly in a crowded scene."

Exactly .......

Charles Jones 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Gun brothers! Please, let's stay on script. This was, no doubt, a "responsible gun owner" exercising "2nd Amendment Rights" and "standing their ground" in order to make this "a more polite society."

What difference does it make where they come from? The NRA welcomes all.

Bob Reinsch 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Gun fans, don't worry, nothing is going to change. The NRA will come out and say that the solution is more guns. People will offer up thoughts and prayers. And not a damned thing will change. More people will die, getting murdered on the streets, getting murdered in their homes. Get used to it. Remember NRA math, as gun ownership approaches infinity, gun deaths will approach zero. It's all part of the fear agenda.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

"...The NRA will come out and say that the solution is more guns..." I hope you're not holding a cork in your fundament while waiting to hear that.

David Holroyd 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Alcohol , drugs, go together in a college town and accompany those two things with guns and the type of concert venues that exist. It is a perfect marriage.!

Read about Mr. Henderson in the KC Star...maybe someone is computer literate and can post the link. Lawrence KS made the news even in Seattle.....

Again, I challenge ONE commissioner to go with me late at night....and I will explain a thing maybe two...but they will have to stay up late!

Maybe even the new police chief.....at least he would have a gun. He might need it.

MerriAnnie Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Two who died were from Topeka.

But you're right.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Seriously? We have been a college town for quite a few years, David. And I"m sure there have been drugs here for a long time. And as MerriAnnie pointed out these people were from Topeka? Now granted they might have been attending Washburn, but I'm betting they weren't college students.

And how often do you hang out downtown late at night? Come to think of it, how often do you go there during the day? I didn't know you were such a wild party person. The Grenada has hosted all kinds of music there before, including rap, and this has never happened before. But everyone needs to own a gun, don't they? At least try to keep your guns out of the hands of young kids in your family.

Hudson Luce 1 month, 2 weeks ago

It actually did happen before back in 2006 - one dead, one wounded, after a rap show at the Granada: http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/feb...

David Holroyd 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Hudson Luce...Dorothy has a short memory, very short...

MerriAnnie Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Google "Police looking for person of interest in Topeka Shooting"

You'll get a KSNT May 2, 2016 article on one of these who was killed.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 1 month, 2 weeks ago

It isn't even the laws that upset me. It's the "gotta have a gun" attitude. It used to be you could go anywhere and the only people with guns might be a security guard or a police officer. Now everyone wants a gun. Get into a fight at a bar? Past: Punches are thrown. A black eye maybe, but some became friends afterward. Present; Shoot them. House break in? Past: Make sure the doors are locked, maybe buy a security system. Present: Shoot them. But also leave the gun in a handy place, so you can protect your family, and where a small child can get their hands on it. Hunting? A good rifle, or to make it even fairer, a bow. Follow the law and get permission to hunt on someone's land. Present: Either go to a place where they herd the deer or whatever in front you, so you don't have to traipse through the woods or be a good shot. Or, worse, go wherever you want to hunt, shoot from the road. Oops. Just shot a horse, probably a wild horse anyway, right?

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

What an odd place your imaginary world is.

Cary Ediger 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Give them hell Dorothy, you speak the truth.

Hudson Luce 1 month, 2 weeks ago

I doubt it was a "responsible gun owner". It happened after a Lil Yachty rap/hip hop show at the Granada. Yachty's lyrics are pretty much representative of rap - https://www.azlyrics.com/l/lilyachty.html. It's a violent culture, and it's not just black people or poor people, you're just as likely to hear it on Frat Row as you are in East Topeka or KCK. But there are certain standards which are upheld, and transgression is likely to end up with someone getting shot. I lived in Over the Rhine in Cincinnati about 25 years ago, and so I gained a bit of familiarity with that culture. It wasn't racist, by the way, the local Crips had both white and black members. Good manners were essential to survival; disrespect someone, and it wouldn't go well for you.

It sounds like a pretty typical drive-by shooting, with the shooter firing pretty much indiscriminately into a crowd. The people who got shot may not have had any connection with the shooter, they might just have been in proximity - wrong place at the wrong time. There was another shooting at the Granada back in 2006 after a rap show, with one dead and one wounded.

I suppose the lesson is that if you bring in a crowd which is part of a violent culture, then if violence occurs, it's not really a surprise. It's just a part of that culture, and you have to keep that in mind. Situational awareness is key, you have to learn to avoid situations where such events might take place, and most people don't have that awareness. I was thinking about going to a benefit show at the Replay last night, but decided not to, because of that show at the Granada, a half block away. I'm glad that no one I know got shot, but it's a risk I didn't want to take, so I didn't go.

Ray Buckingham 1 month, 2 weeks ago

After scanning through just some of these lyrics, I wonder if anyone at KU who booked him for Late Night had any idea the messages he promoted? Had they taken any time to read through any of his song lyrics? No family-friendly lyrics to be found here.

Jerry Harper 1 month, 2 weeks ago

I'm sure this will all stop just as soon as the $30-40 million police fortress out ny Free Stste High is built?

Francis Hunt 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Jerry you sound like a broken record. One track mind, no constructive input, just the continual drivel regarding an imaginary "fortress"

Alana Winner 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Young people are dead, families are grieving, it would be nice if people provided themselves a little time to find out what happened before swinging into issues and we do not even know if they apply. Family members and friends and bystanders do read the comments on here. Some of the people that were bystanders are probably traumatized. It is one of the saddest things ever heard: that someone was filming the death of a person in pain.

Debbie Shafer 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Y'all know you can kill someone with a pencil.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

I went to a gunfight and a rap concert broke out.

Bob Ross 1 month, 2 weeks ago

It’s sad how quick people in Lawrence are to treat African Americans from Topeka, like they are some plague to be kept out with a giant wall. Lawrence pretends it’s a progressive community, but in reality racism and classism seethes underneath. Yes a historically African American community is 17 mikes west of you. Yes a fraction of these young men get seduced into guns and crime because they don’t feel like they have hope or options. But I encourage you to volunteer with students in east Topeka. Be a mentor, love someone. Or just keep judging them.

Oliver Nonfrankan 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Lawrence has its flaws just like any community. Nevertheless, your post shows just how little you know about the community you wish to condemn. Do you really think African Americans are some kind of rare "animal" in a zoo that you have to go drive 17 mile to Topeka to see???

Please educate yourself about the history of Lawrence and its ethnic groups. People with black pigmentation have been in Lawrence since the very beginning, and no they didn't come from New Guinea. Their ancestors came from the same continent as those in Topeka. There ARE African American Churches here with deep roots in Kansas history: You cannot claim to know anything about Lawrence without knowing that Lawrence wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the role of blacks and the anti-slavery movement that founded Lawrence. Here are some links about African-American churches in Lawrence. Lawrence isn't as lilly white as you would like to insinuate.

http://pluralism.org/profile/ninth-street-missionary-baptist-church/

http://www.lawrence.lib.ks.us/oralhistory/

Bob Forer 1 month, 2 weeks ago

If you are going to cite history why leave out the part that the black population has decreased by over one half in the last forty years.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Thinking people flee the confines of loony Lawrence.

David Holroyd 1 month, 2 weeks ago

No one posted a link to the Kansas City Star article about one of the deceased. Why? It would enlighten Dorothy with two last names.

btw, Dorothy,,you said you only make small stained glass items. How's about a small rose, a small tulip, a small lily ...get the idea? And then fasten them together and voila a big THING..it's magic.

Idle hands are the devils workshop...keep those hands busy.

Dorothy has not a clue what is going on at night.

Bob Forer 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Holroyd why do you always go out of your way to be nasty? Its not very becoming.

Bob Smith 1 month, 2 weeks ago

The pot making rude comments to the kettle.

Bob Forer 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Yes a sector of the hip hop community is violent. But let us not forget that white people are the largest consumers of hip hop.

Race is irrelevant. Our entire national culture is permeated with violence.

Armen Kurdian 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Agree, race is and should be irrelevant. It seems blacks are better at one on one shootings while whites have cornered the market in mass killings...I say this with sardonic irony and a somber tone, because every day you hear about murders and killings, and every ethnicity is both a perpetrator and victim. Everyone, all organizations, all so-called civil rights leaders, all elected leaders, everyone with a voice needs to come out and decry this type of violence...it's bad enough we have Islamic terrorists shooting, knifing, and running down civilians in Europe w/o slaughtering ourselves here.

Brock Masters 1 month, 2 weeks ago

I saw a photograph of one of the young victims. It brings home the tragedy of this violent event. Writing this as I listen to the news about the Las Vegas shooting.

I want to end the degree possible the violence that is plaguing this country. For that to happen we need civil dialogue, open honest dialogue which may not be pleasant for some to hear but necessary. The constant name calling of those with different opinions just fuels anger and ultimately violence.

We need to stop focusing on guns and start focusing on changing the violent culture of those who commit these heinous acts. We need to get tough on violent criminals, while trying to find ways to rehabilitate without long prison sentences non-violent ones.

People spew a lot of rhetoric but are short on realistic ideas to stop gun violence. Time to change that and start finding ways to unite our country.

Charles Jones 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Nice pivot! "Let's stop focusing on guns." You may be right. Let's focus on bullets, instead.

Just Released from KU Public Affairs.

Information about shell casings found near Strong Hall

Earlier today, approximately 20 used shell casings were found in the bushes outside Strong Hall. KU Public Safety retrieved the shell casings and have found no indications a weapon was fired anywhere near Strong Hall. At this time, it is believed these shell casings were deposited by a person or persons wishing to make a statement.

The shell casings have been collected and do not pose a threat to health or safety.

David Holroyd 1 month, 2 weeks ago

Lawrence Journal World June 25, 2006

"I think there are some bar owners who have made some poor decisions about the clientele they are trying to cater to, and that is what is causing their problems" BRAD ZIEGLER

Lawrence Journal World July 11, 2006

about cameras

Bill Staples, a Kansas University sociology professo author and expert on the usefulness of monitored video cameras, attended the meeting to weigh in on the city's consideration of the issue. Staples said that current research points to video cameras rarely working to deter true crime, and only acting as a way to capture disasters.

What DISASTERS...a KU Prof , again the problem in Lawrence.

NEXT..

Amyx , for one agreed, saying that the cameras would likely only to serve to catch people after an act had committed.

BRILLIANT Amyx...do you suppose cameras downtown would serve to catch the people involved last weekend?

I AM sure that banks do not put much stock in the KU Professor, who is an expert.

Banks use cameras.

Lawrence depends too much on the KU experts...and 11 years ago, Amyx had a chance to lobby for cameras downtown. Why didn't he pursue it?

2006 and now 2017....Amyx is making the same poor decisions and he leads the pack on the commission...taking turns on 3-2 or 4-1 whichever way the wind blows.

I don't think even recall what they said.I won't even go into 2009 articles...it is useless

When one's mind is made up...its a done deal.

Bob Smith 1 month, 1 week ago

No arrests yet? A reward might persuade the perp's friends to roll over on him.

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