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Archive for Tuesday, February 18, 2014

Proposed Kansas bill would allow stronger spanking

February 18, 2014

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— A Kansas lawmaker is proposing a bill that would allow teachers, caregivers and parents to spank children hard enough to leave marks.

Current Kansas law allows spanking that doesn't leave marks. Rep. Gail Finney, a Democrat from Wichita, says she wants to allow up to 10 strikes of the hand and that could leave redness and bruising. The bill also would allow parents to give permission to others to spank their children.

It would continue to ban hitting a child with fists, in the head or body, or with a belt or switch.

Finney says she wants to restore parental rights, and improve discipline.

KCTV reports Rep. John Rubin, chairman of the House Corrections and Juvenile Justice Committee, says he isn't sure the committee will even consider the bill.

Comments

Bart Johnson 6 months ago

Wow. A bill to legalize child abuse. That's government for you.

Spanking and other corporeal punishments are harmful to the child both physically and mentally and they are completely unnecessary. Force should never be used against children unless it is to prevent them from hurting themselves or hurting someone else. Adults hitting children is the worst kind of bullying there is, and here someone is trying to extend the legality of it?!

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Stuart Evans 6 months ago

WTF.. I don't think that it's a lack of violence that's the problem.. Just because your kid demands your attention, doesn't mean they need you to physically abuse them. How about any lawmaker who approves of this idea, should be given 10 lashes, hard enough to leave a bruise; Ms. Finney should take hers first.

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Scott Burkhart 6 months ago

Do the lawmakers in Topeka have nothing better to do than introduce stupid legislation all day long? And I'm not talking about this bill only! I think I'll propose a bill that allows me to spank any moron that introduces another stupid piece of legislation!

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Betty Bartholomew 6 months ago

And how will one determine whether the bruise was the result of a spanking or a fist? One of the signs of child abuse is bruising, you stupid legislative ... I think the LJW policies prevent me from finishing that sentence.

And having just perused the front page of her website, what a blatant bit of hypocrisy. "As a rule, I try to always support and vote on bills that positively affect the lives of the average Kansan and my local district." Unless they're kids.

A photo of her with some ROTC cadets(?) says, "Supporting our youth is paramount." Another says, "Youth and community first." But, ya know, spank the tar out of the youth first.

Guess even the Democrats out of Wichita are idiots and I find this to be absolutely disgusting (in case you can't tell).

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Fred Mion 6 months ago

Kind of surprised that a Democrat came up with this one.

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Beator 6 months ago

Well, considering the track record of Democrats like Clinton and Letterman, it does not surprise me.

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Rick Masters 6 months ago

When exactly did The Onion start writing all of our legislation?

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Beator 6 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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Randall Uhrich 6 months ago

Yeah!! Beat them. While you're at it, force the bible down their throats! We're actually paying these legislators?

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Clark Coan 6 months ago

I saw a woman yesterday give her small son a swat on the butt after he wouldn't stop whining. He then shut up.

Whatever happened to "time outs" ?

I wonder if Gov. Joan Finney spanked Gail Finney?

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Leslie Swearingen 6 months ago

Sounds to me like a mother who is too lazy too discipline her child and waits until she can't take any more and then hits him. You really have to start with small things when they are babies. Like Barney would say, "nip it in the bud."

I have been at Walmart and seen young children that were very well behaved and were a joy to be around. I give praise to their parents. They did not give any indication of being cowed or afraid, just behaved.

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Wayne Kerr 6 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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Addie Line 6 months ago

Restore the parental right to physically harm your child? And how will CFS determine if the marks on a child's body came from less than 10 hits? "Welp little Suzy, your Mom did beat you hard enough to leave marks and make it so you can't tolerate sitting but she did it in under 10 swats so THATS HER RIGHT." This makes no sense and I have no idea how they could implement this. People should have better tools for providing discipline anyways. Beating your kid does nothing but create fear, teaches them poor coping and provide them with reason for resentment. Maybe this rep will pay for the future therapy bills of these kids too.

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James Howlette 6 months ago

Hard enough to leave a bruise? What? Wouldn't you actually have to hit someone really hard for that to happen with just your open hand? How is that ok?

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Armen Kurdian 6 months ago

I am going to play Devil's advocate here and assume that the author of this article is either leaving out some important points, or is way over-simplifying the issue. Maybe it's that in case a parent spanks a child and unintentionally leaves a mark, that parent wouldn't be prosecuted for child abuse, but that it doesn't give a parent carte blanche to deliberately leave a welt. I can't possibly imagine the intent of the legislation would be to allow routine spankings that hurt a child.

If I'm right, then shame on the author for deliberately miscasting the legislation in order to generate this type of reaction. W/o reading the text of the law, I really don't know what it means.

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Kendall Simmons 6 months ago

Well, first of all, here's her proposed legislation: http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2013_14/measures/documents/hb2699_00_0000.pdf

It includes the following as just ONE of the changes she'd like made in the law.

"(e) "Corporal punishment" means up to ten forceful applications in succession of a bare, open-hand palm against the clothed buttocks of a child and any such reasonable physical force on the child as may be necessary to hold, restrain or control the child in the course of maintaining authority over the child, acknowledging that redness or bruising may occur on the tender skin of a child as a result. As used in this subsection "child" includes a person over the age of 18 who is enrolled in high school".

Then I'd point out that her proposed legislation would include spanking LEGAL ADULTS. Hmmm. Sounds kinda kinky, don't you think?

And then, if you're interested...I'd be glad to tell you how my mom "spanked" me. Yup. "Clothed buttocks" and all. All the time screaming "Look what you made me do!"...as if I'd ever have made anyone do what she did to me. "Spanking" which, by the way, resulted in my having hearing and neurological damage since I was 7 years old.

And, finally...my husband and I raised a wonderful, loving, successful daughter (she's now a grandmother) without ever feeling the need to HIT HER!!

"Time outs" worked when she was younger. And, when she got older, GROUNDING worked. Ah! But the trick to successfully grounding her was that WE ENFORCED IT!!! And, yes, that generally meant one or the other of us was "grounded", too. So we accepted that fact!!!

So, no...I have ZERO interest in supporting ANY bill that promotes...yes, promotes...corporal punishment.

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Leslie Swearingen 6 months ago

Kendall, excellent response, by far the best. You are so right in pointing out that the parent has to work on this issue and stick with it. You can't teach your children to be emotionally disciplined if you refuse to be. Your daughter is very lucky to have you.

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Armen Kurdian 6 months ago

Personally, again trying to play devil's advocate, after looking at the proposed legislation, it seems too vague. Say I whack a child and accidentally miss because he squirmed and I got his back, do I get prosecuted? And who defines reasonable...

Is there some legal case(s) going on in the state that have led to this?

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Jeanne Cunningham 6 months ago

Isn't there some minimum IQ test that legislators should take even before being allowed to run??? OMG - this is going to be national news - again - and the world will continue to think that Kansans are all imbeciles!!! (which BTW - how does this relate to the color of the child's skin - if he/she is darker, can he/she be hit harder since it won't "show" as easily???? R U kidding????)

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Ned Wolfsosoon 6 months ago

Considering that "time out" was coinvented at KU, I'm surprised that this is being proposed and I'm also surprised it is coming from a Democrat (the party of non-violence, right?)

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James Howlette 6 months ago

No political party has a monopoly on stupid.

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Tommy Felts 6 months ago

I am a 17 year old high school student and i can say that when i was younger i did get spanked when i needed it and it made me a stronger harder working person. That is how i learned right from wrong and then they're those kids that take guns to school. These are obviously the kids that did not learn right from wrong. It is sad that we have to go to school everyday and be worried about another student bringing a gun to school and killing us innocent people. School shootings were not heard of 20 years ago when parents were legally aloud to beat their kids when they needed it. I rest my case if you want kids to keep going to school everyday afraid of being shot then keep arguing the negatives about it but then ask yourself what are kids being taught when they're not spanked?

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Seth Peterson 6 months ago

You didn't hear about them 20 years ago because you hadn't been born. There were 3 school shootings which received national attention in 1994 alone - exactly 20 years ago. There have always been school shootings, the two topics have nothing to do with each other.

If you're 17 and in high school start working on learning how to do quick research prior to posting, it doesn't take much to find out if the information you plan to state is supported or not and it's better to make an informed comment than make the comment and wait for someone to correct you.

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Stuart Evans 6 months ago

I too was spanked as a kid. Usually it was with a belt, spread eagle against grandmas car in the garage. sometimes I'd get one of those sessions because of a mid-term report card, or sometimes it was just because my mouth was a little smarter than my dad could handle. At any rate, it left me resentful towards him, and fearful of authority; and it made me question the rationale behind many of the things he tried to teach me.

And as far as school shootings go; my low self esteem, and bullied mentality, had me seriously exploring the idea of taking a gun to school; that was 25 years ago. Bullying often starts at home.

I vowed to never beat my child into submission. Why should she fear the person that she looks up to for support and guidance? Home is where a child should feel safe from violence, not have to tiptoe around it.

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Richard Heckler 6 months ago

Imagine if the Koch brothers controlled congress and all state legislatures. USA would be exactly like Russia,China,Iraq and Nazi Germany. After all the Koch brothers are John Birchers.

The country will be controlled by ALEC legislation written up in secret meetings.

The Koch brothers have spent $8.2 million alone thus far on the North Carolina Senate Race.

The Kansas legislature needs spanking NOT millions of campaign Koch dollars injected.

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Armen Kurdian 6 months ago

I don't see what this has to do w/anything...this has nothing to do w/the Koch brothers.

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John Graham 5 months, 4 weeks ago

For Richard anything negative anywhere in the universe is always the blame of the Kochs and the ALEC.

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Cait McKnelly 6 months ago

The Kansas legislature has officially gone psychotic.
I am an adult survivor of physical child abuse. I grew up at a time when a parent could actually murder their child and get away with it. I was hit with belts, switches and other weapons to the point where I bled. This bill was severely triggering to me when I read it.
A child can be abused without even showing bruises. Several children have died recently from being beaten to death with plastic plumbing tubing and never even showing a bruise. (Please look up rhabdomyolysis.)
I want to know how, what would be considered and tried as assault if it were an adult doing it to another adult, it can possibly be sanctioned when an adult does it to a child. Assault is assault.
I realize that this bill will, in all likelihood, not even leave committee, much less make it to the floor, but the fact that even ONE legislator even saw fit to introduce it is beyond my comprehension.
Welcome to "Christian" Sharia law. God bless Murrica.

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Larry Sturm 6 months ago

Can you even think of the outrage of a mother if her child came home from school marked from a spanking at school. The teacher and the administer had better both leave town.

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Addie Line 6 months ago

Kids who shoot up schools don't need to be spanked, they need intensive mental health care and no access to guns. You really think a person contemplating shooting/murdering other people can be deterred by a spanking? No.

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Leslie Swearingen 6 months ago

I would be willing to bet that kids who shoot up schools have been physically disciplined at home, and that that has been twinned with totally indifference when the parents were not hitting them.

Spanking is a sign of emotional incontinence on the part of the parent and whether it works or not depends on the amount of fear the child has for the parent.

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Andrew Stahmer 6 months ago

This legislation is FAR too vague; can whoopin' still be done behind the woodshed? Is it still ok to make your kid select their own 'switch' from the whippin' tree?

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Beator 6 months ago

Do you really want a teacher spanking your child that is concerned about their background being checked first?

TOPEKA — The Kansas State Department of Education is still drafting new regulations that would require all teachers to submit fingerprints and undergo extensive background checks as a condition for keeping their licenses, but officials say those plans are already raising concerns among teachers in some districts....

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