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Archive for Thursday, April 11, 2013

Letter: Offended voter

April 11, 2013

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To the editor:

I voted provisionally on April 2. I learned from the officious woman protecting us from voter fraud that I couldn’t vote without an ID, even if the volunteers at the table knew me.

Until this election, I’d never had an unpleasant experience at the polls. So when a caller from the courthouse told me I had to bring my ID so my provisional ballot could be counted, I bristled again for the loss of reasonableness at the polls.

Hadn’t the courthouse checked my information and signature against my original registration? No, I had to appear in person, otherwise how would anyone know who I was?

Well, the volunteer I had Easter dinner with and the other who greets me at church knew me. However, in a college town, with many fake IDs, someone who never met me would look at a piece of plastic and deem my vote free of fraud.

I know Kris Kobach helped Arizona write laws to protect citizens from illegal immigrants. I also know that Arizona citizens who give food or water to illegals can be jailed and fined, because death from thirst or starvation deters illegals.

I’ve heard Kobach tell a group of students during his congressional campaign that gays should not be allowed to raise children, and, if he were elected, children in gay homes would be protected and removed.

When Kobach tells us that we must protect ourselves from voter fraud by insisting people known to their neighbors cannot vote without an ID, I’m left wondering who is perpetrating a fraud on democracy?

Comments

Steve Jacob 1 year, 5 months ago

I just don't see the issue with voter ID, especially if you have a drivers licence. You can't do anything anymore without some form of ID. It's not going away, so we have to deal with it.

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jhawkinsf 1 year, 5 months ago

As I recall, there was a large photo-op when Obama went to vote in Chicago. He had to show his I.D. He laughed the whole thing off while giving the poll worker an autographed picture (or maybe he just had his picture taken with her). Whatever.

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msezdsit 1 year, 5 months ago

Keep it simple, stupid, seems to apply to many who jump on the voter id bandwagon.

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Ken Lassman 1 year, 5 months ago

The lady who sees me at the polling booth has known be since I was a kid, and I certainly am not a kid anymore. She now has to ask me for an ID even tho she has flipped to the page that I have to sign before I get to the table. This would be all right by me if I thought that the intention of this new law was to really prevent a problem, i.e. voter fraud, but even Mr. Kobach has never convinced anyone that there has ever been significant voter fraud in Kansas. The real outcome of this law is that more folks will be turned away from the voting booth/not have their votes counted due to this law than have ever been miscounted due to voter fraud. It's deceptive to frame this law any differently that what its actual impact is in terms of whose votes are counted and who is turned away.

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Fred Mertz 1 year, 5 months ago

How could you not know you needed an ID to vote? It has been publicized and discussed for a couple of years now?

Why blame the poll worker who was just doing their job properly? They didn't make the rules but are expected to follow them.

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Kathy Getto 1 year, 5 months ago

You missed the point, too, Fred.

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Fred Mertz 1 year, 5 months ago

No but you missed my point. Should the worker have not followed the law? Why didn't the LTE writer come prepared?

Should workers arbitrarily take it upon themselves to decide when to enforce laws?

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Kathy Getto 1 year, 5 months ago

No, I got your point, fred, it just has nothing to do with the LTE.

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Fred Mertz 1 year, 5 months ago

Sure it does. The LTE writer was chastising the worker along with Kobach and the law. Disagree with the law but don't attack the worker as the LTE writer did in the very first sentence.

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Fred Mertz 1 year, 5 months ago

Ok my mistake. Second sentence.

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UneasyRider 1 year, 5 months ago

Kobach, a master at creating solutions for problems that don't exist. How many proven cases of voter fraud have there been in last 100 years? How much money has Kobach made for writing and then defending these laws in court in his career?

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Matthew Herbert 1 year, 5 months ago

You must have walked to the polling place, or perhaps taken a leisurely bike ride. Or maybe, you were the ONE riding the T bus. I say this because CERTAINLY you didn't drive there without a license. Doing so is, of course, illegal. But perhaps you would like that changed too. After all, that's probably a conspiracy to keep poor people from driving.

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gatekeeper 1 year, 5 months ago

Guess what? Many of us do live near our polling places. Many in my neighborhood aren't lazy and we do walk multiple blocks to vote.

I've often forgotten my ID (left in a pocket or different purse) and have accidentally driven all the way to work in KC without it. Oh no, call the cops!!

Crap happens. I get the point of this letter, which you don't seem to grasp. I too know the ladies at my polling place, but have to go through the BS of getting out my ID to prove to my neighbors who I am.

We had to take an elderly neighbor of my mom's, who hasn't driven in over a decade, to get an ID so she could vote. Amazing how she's been able to vote since the 40's, but now has to show an ID. Those darned elderly trying to commit fraud.

I'd be all for the ID thing if there WAS actually proof of voter fraud. Problem is, there isn't an issue with voter fraud.

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Matthew Herbert 1 year, 5 months ago

oh no, I got the point of the letter. The point was, this writer was mad that she was inconvenienced by having to prove her citizenship in order to redeem the rights that accompany citizenship.

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Liberty275 1 year, 5 months ago

"You must have walked to the polling place, or perhaps taken a leisurely bike ride. "

Or wrote fiction so she could whine about Kobach.

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UneasyRider 1 year, 5 months ago

Actually the master of fiction is Kobach with his stories of massive voter fraud. And sadder still are the ones who believe his fiction, AKA lies.

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Kathy Getto 1 year, 5 months ago

There is nothing fictional about the suppression and disenfranchising of voters, the main motive for Kobach's actions.

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Liberty275 1 year, 5 months ago

How about the disfranchisement of those that try to write a check? Also, I think it is appropriate to suppress and disenfranchise those that are not qualified to vote.

1

msezdsit 1 year, 5 months ago

They wrote a bad check using a fake id. You have probably never heard of "identity" theft either. Try to vote with a box full of id's after someone stole your identity.

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Kathy Getto 1 year, 5 months ago

L275: How can you conflate the two? Do you have the right to write a check just because you are a citizen? Interesting this only came about with the election of a democratic, minority president. Bottom line is there’s no problem to be solved—except the problem that some people have of poor (non-white) people voting, a right which has been under attack since this nation was founded. This voter ID effort is all about racism and bigotry; it’s designed to appeal to those who are fearful of the “other” Americans. It divides to conquer. I cannot imagine anything more anti-American than this.

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msezdsit 1 year, 5 months ago

Easy there Kathy, 275 defends some of our rights, for example the right to bare arms. One out of two ain't so bad.

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Liberty275 1 year, 5 months ago

I firmly believe all eligible voters should be allowed to vote. You need an ID to buy a gun, why shouldn't you need one to vote? Hypocrite.

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Kathy Getto 1 year, 5 months ago

Really? Ever purchased a firearm from a private seller? Gun show? Come on, L, be truthful now.

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Kathy Getto 1 year, 5 months ago

You mean you wouldn't flag my vote for removal? I' m honored.

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Liberty275 1 year, 5 months ago

If you keep being nice, I'll let you vote twice without an ID.

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Fred Mertz 1 year, 5 months ago

If you support the requirement/need to show ID to buy a gun you understand that rights can have restrictions and limits put on them. Not unreasonable to show ID to vote.

0

Kathy Getto 1 year, 5 months ago

If that really happened for every gun sale, I would agree, fred.

2

Fred Mertz 1 year, 5 months ago

There is no exemption for gun shows. Dealers do background checks. Only exemption is for individuals.

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gatekeeper 1 year, 5 months ago

Funny. Just watched on CNN last night how a guy went to 5 gun shows in one weekend, bought three 9mm pistols and an assault rifle and never showed any ID. He bought each gun in less than 70 seconds. Keep on telling yourself how all these guns sold at shows are done legally. I personally know one ex-felon (ex of a friend of mine) who had gone to shows and has purchased multiple guns (all in KS).

1

Fred Mertz 1 year, 5 months ago

Did he buy the guns from dealers or individuals? If from licensed gun dealers the dealers were in violation of the law. Which if that is the case how is any new law going to stop it.

Individuals can sell guns at gun shows or anywhere else without a background check.

0

Susan Mangan 1 year, 5 months ago

Well that can't happen! They passed a law preventing most ex-felons from having guns, so that can't be true. Passing new laws makes us safe, right??? That's why so many, now, are demanding new legislation...legislation makes us safe. Try enforcing the ones already on the books and addressing the REAL problems, like mental health. There isn't a single criminal out there who is going to stop what he's doing, for a moment, because a new law was passed to prevent it. But there WILL be fewer and fewer "good guys" there to defend against those criminals.

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Susan Mangan 1 year, 5 months ago

I have (the gun show, not private seller). Three or four times over the past 15 years, actually. EVERY SINGLE TIME, I had to wait, after I filled out my application, for the instant background check to be completed (they took my ID with them to call in my info. I was told, "no ID, no sale. Sorry".) I am happy to show my ID to vote because I don't want someone who is not legally entitled to vote cancelling mine out. If it turns out it never happens, even better. But it's a right that is too important to risk throwing away. I'm guessing the sum total of your experience from gun shows is from what the "mainstream media" reports to the masses. And thousands of people form misguided, judmental opinions about an issue they know NOTHING about, aside from the nightly news.

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Kathy Getto 1 year, 5 months ago

msezdsit: I don't happen to like bare arms on older men. Creepy :-)

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jhawkinsf 1 year, 5 months ago

Interesting that while you see this coming about only when we have a Democrat, minority President, others see it as coming about when we have a large increase in non-Americans being here illegally and even calls in some communities to allow these non-Americans to vote in elections dealing with local issues. What you see as racism others see as a response to illegal immigration. What you see as anti-American, others see as being pro-American.

What I think is that both sides are doing lots of imagining and that it's all much ado about nothing. This isn't about racism and illegal immigrants aren't voting either. If you want to require an I.D., fine and if you don't, that's fine too.

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Liberty275 1 year, 5 months ago

"except the problem that some people have of poor (non-white) people voting"

I think the problem is people that think poor, non-white people can't get an ID in exactly the same way everyone else does. Why do you have such a low opinion of poor non-white people?

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Kathy Getto 1 year, 5 months ago

There are many barriers to poor, elderly, disabled folks of all backgrounds. Why do you think discrimination doesn't exist?

2

JohnBrown 1 year, 5 months ago

The only voter fraud I've seen are the politicians in Topeka who constantly lie to us about their real vision of Kansas...the so-called Free State.

Our freedoms are being trampled, one new law at a time.

JohnBrown

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msezdsit 1 year, 5 months ago

Voter ID laws are only the sales pitch for their underlying purpose of suppressing and disenfranchising the will of the American voter who likely wouldn't vote republican. If you can't win a fair election then disenfranchise those who might not vote for you.

Mike Turzai, Pennsylvania GOP House Majority Leader: Voter ID Will Allow Mitt Romney To Win State.

In Wisconsin, the state’s new voter ID law could make the difference for Mitt Romney, according to the State Senate Minority Assistant Leader Glenn Grothman (R).

While the lte makes valid points about Kobach and real problems that the voter id argument can't win, 275 can't make a valid case for Kobach so they choose to whine about the lte. I think it is laughably obvious who is doing the whining L275.

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Liberty275 1 year, 5 months ago

"Voter ID laws are only the sales pitch for their underlying purpose of suppressing and disenfranchising the will of the American voter who likely wouldn't vote republican."

Because people that vote democrat lack the intelligence or ambition to get an ID? Why do you think democrats won't bother getting an ID? Lazy? Dumb? Tell us why you have so little faith in democrats.

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Liberty275 1 year, 5 months ago

"While the lte makes valid points"

The only valid point it makes is that Judith Galas didn't have the sense to take her ID even though there had been massive amounts of publicity about the requirement to show an ID in order to vote. She sounds like a low-information voter.

1

Fred Mertz 1 year, 5 months ago

Very low information voter if she didn't know an ID was required or living under a rock.

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msezdsit 1 year, 5 months ago

"Because people that vote democrat are lack the intelligence or ambition to get a voter ID? Why do you think democrats won't bother getting an ID to vote? Lazy? Dumb? Tell us why you have so little faith in democrats."

This is the typical dumbed down republican response that explains everything away to "lazy" lack of "ambition" or lack of intelligence, (a necessary ingredient for republicans to sell their frauds to their fellow republicans)

Your simplistic view doesn't allow you to consider that maybe people are trying to get their id but known barriers really keep them from obtaining it. The laws are created in hopes that the barriers it creates such as not being able to get off work (not lazy), being disabled, being 98 years old, recently divorced and in the process of changing id's, long lines at the dmv and you can't afford to take offwork and find transpotation for the multiple attempts it takes or how about language barriers. The republicans are banking on the infinite barriers that voter id will create and the dumbed down explanation that people are just to lazy or to stupid. You took the bait 275. Only if everyone was just like you they wouldn't have any problem getting an id.

And as the lte suggest, there isn't even a need for the id , the real fraud is the supporters like Kobach who can always find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Now all you have to have is a couple dozen fake id's and you can vote a couple dozen times.

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Matthew Herbert 1 year, 5 months ago

"recently divorced" - having never been divorced, I guess I didn't realize they take away your drivers license for that.

"being 98 years old" - CLEARLY a ploy to stop all the Democrat voters, since stereotypically so many 98 year old people are Democrats.

"long lines at the DMV" - again, CLEARLY a ploy to stop Democrat voters, since Republicans just have to show their Republican card and get to jump ahead in line at the DMV.

1

Fred Mertz 1 year, 5 months ago

Plus there are exemptions for the elderly, you need an ID for most jobs and your voter registration card will match your DL until you change the DL so divorce should not be a factor.

1

Liberty275 1 year, 5 months ago

"This is the typical dumbed down republican response"

Dumbed down or not, I can still get an ID.

If you want to stop requiring IDs to vote, then we should also stop requiring IDs to buy AR15s. The Constitution guarantees your right to own a firearm, but it is silent on your right to vote.

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gatekeeper 1 year, 5 months ago

You don't have to show an ID to buy guns from non-dealers. Your statement is moot.

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Liberty275 1 year, 5 months ago

You don't have to show an ID to vote if your religion forbids your being photographed.

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Ken Lassman 1 year, 5 months ago

But most religions don't care if you are photographed or not. Your statement covers probably less than 1% of voters.

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Liberty275 1 year, 5 months ago

That isn't the only exemption.

0

MarcoPogo 1 year, 5 months ago

You owe me five seconds of my life back.

0

jayhawklawrence 1 year, 5 months ago

Anyone who still believes the reasoning behind voter IDs and ignores the national voter suppression efforts by the Republican Party is probably not able to link facts together in a way that we would identify as logical. Probably, their thought processes are more similar to what we would find in a cult or in the North Korean army.

For that reason, I give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they know it is BS and they simply do not care.

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rtwngr 1 year, 5 months ago

So, instead of regaling us with your commanding logic you become insultive and condescending. Well done and typical. To assert that voter fraud doesn't exist is ignorant. To imply that a person cannot obtain an I.D. to prove who they are is equally ignorant. There is no proof that voter I.D. laws keep registered voters from voting. What it does is prevent Chicago style politics of "vote early, vote often." Ordinances and laws are not established based on a frequency of violations. They are established to provide a well ordered and safe society.

0

Leslie Swearingen 1 year, 5 months ago

If you have a bus pass, KU or otherwise, you have to show it every time you get on the bus no matter how often you get on. Same with voting. No one can violate company rules or the law because they know the person. Everyone gets treated exactly the same. That is fair.

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Matthew Herbert 1 year, 5 months ago

My 30-year old wife was carded at 23rd Street Brewery the other night, and having left her wallet at home (a clever ploy to get me to pay I'm sure!) she was refused alcoholic beverage service. Aside from the obvious compliment paid to her by the nice waitress, I am to assume that in this instance requiring identification to prove you actually have the privilege to exercise the legal right you are seeking to exercise is a process the community supports. Until I hear an outcry in Lawrence that bars checking id's disenfranchises poor drinkers, or that grocers checking id's disenfranchises poor smokers or that police officers checking id's at DUI checkpoints disenfranchises poor drivers, I refuse to believe that such is the case with voting.

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Thinking_Out_Loud 1 year, 5 months ago

Rhetorical double-talk, Renaissance. For one thing, you're misusing the word "disenfranchise."

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verity 1 year, 5 months ago

While the purpose of Kobach's law was obviously to disenfranchise undesirable voters, taking out your ire about the law on poll workers isn't going to accomplish anything besides annoying them. It is the law and they must enforce it.

It sounds like you knew what the law is and just wanted to stir up trouble. If you don't like the law, work to get it changed. If you don't like Kobach, work for his opponent in the next election. Don't take it out on the poll workers who volunteered their time. They are taking time out from their lives to support democracy.

Again, the poll workers MUST enforce the law.

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Catalano 1 year, 5 months ago

I wonder if she didn't vote last November. The photo ID law was in effect then.

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Matthew Herbert 1 year, 5 months ago

I'm guessing she was also one of the 92% of this town who didn't vote in the primary. Law was in effect then too.

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jafs 1 year, 5 months ago

Amen.

And thanks for your volunteering for that thankless task.

Personally, I find it quite easy to show ID when voting, and have no problem with it at all.

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streetman 1 year, 5 months ago

This lady must be a "low information voter." Who, by now, doesn't know they need ID to vote? And nothing "went over my head" on her letter.

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kuguardgrl13 1 year, 5 months ago

Perhaps it says something about the society I've grown up in, but I had always thought that you needed to show an ID when voting even before the voter ID law was passed. I'm 21 years old and can't recall a time when I (or at least my parents) didn't need to show ID in an airport. I've had a school ID for the last 8 years. I got a passport at 14 and a learner's permit at 15. Having to show a photo ID to order a drink or when making a withdrawal at the bank has become part of my life. Even showing documentation like my birth certificate or Social Security card seems normal. I understand the LTE's hatred of Kobach, but we live in a society where proving who you are through official documents or IDs is pretty commonplace. The poll workers are just doing the job they volunteered to do. I would even show ID to my mom if she was working the polls. Chuckle about it with people you know. Unfortunately the law is the law, and your life is only worse if you don't follow it.

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UneasyRider 1 year, 5 months ago

The fact that the law was enacted because some clown was finding a solution for a problem that doesn't exist except to further his financial welfare doesn't bother you?

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UneasyRider 1 year, 5 months ago

Can you document any cases of these voters. Not claims that someone saw them, but actual documented, prosecuted cases? And further that any of these so-called fraudulent votes affecting any race. Further how can you know who these so-called fraudulent votes were cast for? Is your crystal ball that good?

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UneasyRider 1 year, 5 months ago

Nobody says it doesn't, I'm simply saying the amount is so small, basically none that no election is affected. Can you or anyone show that it has affected any political race?

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UneasyRider 1 year, 5 months ago

How about you documenting where it is a problem and why should we spend so much and possibly stop legitimate voters from voting for what? A supposed problem, for which there is no supporting evidence that problem even exists?

1

Thinking_Out_Loud 1 year, 5 months ago

cheeseburger, I think that you miss the point. It is encumbent on the persons arguing that there is a problem to provide evidence of the problem. Saying "There is indeed a problem--where is your evidence that there is not" is irrational. The very nature of something that does not exist is that one cannot prove said thing does not exist. For example, where is your evidence that flying purple people eaters do not exist?

So, are people "unauthorized to vote...indeed voting"? Heck, I dunno. But if they aren't...you can't prove it. They've left no evidence behind, because, well, they aren't. However, if they are...they have necessarily left evidence behind...and you can therefore demonstrate it.

So far, the only concrete instance I am aware of that the Secretary of State has provided was an example that was false: the man he named as voting from the graveyard was actually very much still alive...and verified that he was, indeed, voting. The evidence just isn't there. The fear is there...but not the evidence.

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Thinking_Out_Loud 1 year, 5 months ago

You've got me there, havecents. Will you try an experiement with me? To prove to me that it isn't that big of a deal to you, please stop voting until and unless this law is repealed. If you are unwilling to give up your right to vote voluntarily, I suggest it is not "no big deal" to actively prevent another person from voting.

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Thinking_Out_Loud 1 year, 5 months ago

Incidentally, havecents, I am neither whining nor crying. I am engaging in a policy discussion over a policy that I believe to be flawed. I suggest most others are neither whining nor crying, either--the robustness of the conversation serves as evidence that this is a serious policy discussion, from both sides of the argument.

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Liberty275 1 year, 5 months ago

http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-facts-figures

To date, 46 states have prosecuted or convicted cases of voter fraud. More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on the rolls nation-wide. There are over 1.8 million dead voters still eligible on the rolls across the country. More than 2.75 million Americans are registered to vote in more than one state. True The Vote recently found 99 cases of potential felony interstate voter fraud. Maryland affiliates of True The Vote uncovered cases of people registering and voting after their respective deaths. etc

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Thinking_Out_Loud 1 year, 5 months ago

See, that's better. Plagiarized, but at least there is an attempt here to demonstrate the depth of the problem.

I am fascinated that since 2000, truththevote finds only one non-Kansas resident casting votes in Kansas elections. Out of nearly 3 million people, 1 non-Kansas resident has admitted to voting illegally here.

And the system worked...that one was caught.

I believe the scope of the problem is demonstrably small. The scope of the solution is out-of-proportion to the problem.

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kuguardgrl13 1 year, 5 months ago

Oh it bothers me. I'm just stating that having grown up in a post-9/11 world, I've gotten used to having to show my ID everywhere. Anybody see anything wrong with that?

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bearded_gnome 1 year, 5 months ago

To the editor:

I voted provisionally on April 2. I learned from the officious woman protecting us from voter fraud that I couldn’t vote without an ID, even if the volunteers at the table knew me.

---sorry, she was just doing her job.

Until this election, I’d never had an unpleasant experience at the polls. So when a caller from the courthouse told me I had to bring my ID so my provisional ballot could be counted, I bristled again for the loss of reasonableness at the polls.

---oh, bringing an ID is such an hardship! oh the humanity!

Hadn’t the courthouse checked my information and signature against my original registration? No, I had to appear in person, otherwise how would anyone know who I was?

---it's called, doing the process. you want a special process just for you honey? are you so special?

Well, the volunteer I had Easter dinner with and the other who greets me at church knew me.

---irrelevant.

However, in a college town, with many fake IDs, someone who never met me would look at a piece of plastic and deem my vote free of fraud.

---irrelevant.

I know Kris Kobach helped Arizona write laws to protect citizens from illegal immigrants.

I also know that Arizona citizens who give food or water to illegals can be jailed and fined, ---correctly so because they're aiding and abetting in committing crimes.

because death from thirst or starvation deters illegals.

I’ve heard Kobach tell a group of students during his congressional campaign that gays should not be allowed to raise children,

and, if he were elected, children in gay homes would be protected and removed.

When Kobach tells us that we must protect ourselves from voter fraud by insisting people known to their neighbors cannot vote without an ID, I’m left wondering who is perpetrating a fraud on democracy? ---no, more like you want a special process just for little you. taking an ID isn't so very hard, now is it?
thank you for following the law. you set an example, one that even illegal immigrants could learn from examining.

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Thinking_Out_Loud 1 year, 5 months ago

I think that we are debating around things that are largely red herrings. The question, as I see it, is not whether the Voter ID burden is onerous; whether the poll worker was doing her job (or not); whether voter fraud is rampant/modest/rare; certainly it is not whether one must show IDs when buying firearms.

The most elementary question is whether the government or its agent (a poll worker, in this case) can legitimately deny me my franchise as a citizen of Kansas and the United States without due process of law. With Voter ID, the government has effectively transferred the burden from itself (to prove that I am not allowed to vote) to me (now I must prove that I am allowed to do so). It has done so without due process.

The rest of the conversation is only so much noise.

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Thinking_Out_Loud 1 year, 5 months ago

You're refocusing the argument, KansasConscience, away from my central point. Your post focuses on the things I say this debate is NOT about.

The government has now assumed that citizens are not entitled to vote, until we affirmatively prove that we are. Whether or not the burden of providing such evidence is onerous is irrelevant.

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jafs 1 year, 5 months ago

That's not true.

The government simply doesn't assume that all who are trying to vote are citizens, and thus entitled to vote.

What we have to prove is that we are, in fact, citizens who have that right.

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Thinking_Out_Loud 1 year, 5 months ago

On another point, KansasConscience, when you respond to the things that I clearly wrote were incidental to what I believe to be the the core issue, and you use language such as "Doesn't sound so onerous to me," "What part of...do you not understand?", your post takes on a dismissive tone. I found it to be demeaning and belittiling.

Please understand me clearly: I have no issue if you disagree with my point of view. You are entitled to your own. One of the strengths of our great country is that we can disagree with each other and discuss the issues of the day with passion for our own individual perspectives that is balanced for considered respect for those with whom we disagree.

Insulting others as being dull or dim-witted ("what part of...do you not understand"; "doesn't sound so onerous to me") demonstrates neither passion for one's own point of view, nor respect (considered or otherwise) for other's points of view.

And honestly, KansasConscience, is beneath you. You are capable of contributing so much more, and in such a better fashion, on this forum. I am sorely disappointed.

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Bob Forer 1 year, 5 months ago

The letter reads in part:

"I know Kris Kobach helped Arizona write laws to protect citizens from illegal immigrants. I also know that Arizona citizens who give food or water to illegals can be jailed and fined, because death from thirst or starvation deters illegals."

I know of no law that makes it illegal for an American to give food and water to an illegal alien. Not even in Arizona, or Texas for that matter.

The writer is out-of-touch with the real world.

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jayhawklawrence 1 year, 5 months ago

"Voting rights are under attack in this country as state legislatures nationwide pass voter suppression laws under the pretext of preventing voter fraud and safeguarding election integrity."

http://www.aclu.org/voter-suppression-america

There is a ton of information out there from any kind of source you want to spend time researching as to the verfication of the Republican attempt to suppress the vote and it is now considered a fact by the vast majority of the American people. Only completely clueless people still deny this.

What the letter writer points out is the human side of this issue and that is the real value of this letter. Kansas, which is now part of a conservative political experiment, is being used by powerful conservative elements, to test their political theories.

The value of this letter is in pointing out what we are losing. Trust between neighbors and friends who are forced to become part of this political farce which fundamentally goes against the spirit of what it means to be an American.

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rtwngr 1 year, 5 months ago

The only way you can prove this ridiculous assertion is to have statements from those that propose these laws that they are trying to prevent eligible voters from voting. That would be called a fact. To cite the ACLU and any other source that chooses to editorialize about it, is not a fact. Furthermore to say this is considered a fact by the "vast majority of the American people" is also merely opinion. Here is a fact I would like you to provide: Who in this country cannot obtain identification, to prove who they are, that are legally entitled to be living here? What state prevents this? Don't tell me the poorest of the poor. If they can obtain assistance from SRS, they have to have identification. If they drive, they have to have identification. If they have any kind of a bank account, at all, they have to provide identification. If they use any type of credit card or debit card, they are supposed to be required to show identification (this doesn't occur most of the time in my experience).

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UneasyRider 1 year, 5 months ago

Can anyone document exactly why such a law was needed. Anecdotal stories don't count. How about actual cases where voter fraud occurred and people were prosecuted?

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Thinking_Out_Loud 1 year, 5 months ago

KansasConscience, this is a much better post. Matter-of-fact in tone, and without demeaning others.

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UneasyRider 1 year, 5 months ago

So Kansas with voting age population of approximately 2.1 million would have, at even a 10 % voting level equals 200,000 voters. So to think even as a wild guess that created 200 fraudulent voters and all voted same way, what election would they affect? First of all, even Koback in his mindless rants only could show approx 200 alleged fraud cases of which most weren't. This is reason for a stupid law?

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Thinking_Out_Loud 1 year, 5 months ago

It appears to be even lower than that, UneasyRider. Liberty275 posted a link around noon today to "truththevote.org" that showed a single voter from Missouri crossing state lines to vote illegally in KCK since 2000.

To be fair, there were three cases cited in the Kansas link...but two of them were Kansas residents voting illegally in Missouri.

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UneasyRider 1 year, 5 months ago

Number 1 point, you've always had to sign and be registered to vote. If you have been doing, as you claim, then you are a fraudulent voter. Are you proud of that? Or simply a fox rant copier?

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UneasyRider 1 year, 5 months ago

Actual wording should be Koback's attempt to suppress any non-GOP voters. After all, they don't believe in the right wing agenda.

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Curveball 1 year, 5 months ago

Voter fraud does exist. Maybe not on a large scale, but it has to happen now and then. I remember reading that the city of Detroit had 110% voter participation in 2004. It was on page 4 or 5 in the paper and there never was any followup on the report. Like most people I have to use my ID on a regular basis, but I don't think I have ever failed to have it with me when out in public. I would like to be present when the letter writer goes in and applies for SS benefits. I recently took an item back to a store and forgot the receipt and warranty papers. My fault. I had to go home and get it. I didn't really expect them to honor a return or repair without it. Without voter ID you could easily vote in place of a recently deceased voter or someone who you knew did not vote early.

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jayhawklawrence 1 year, 5 months ago

Kansas is not Detroit and cows don't lay eggs.

I have been there.

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Liberty275 1 year, 5 months ago

I was badly offended 3 days ago when we rented a car and had to provide photo ID. How dare they not give me a $20,000 car on my word and $100? It is an outrage. The extra work of taking out my wallet, removing my license from my wallet and handing it to the rental agent really took the joy out of my car rental experience. It was like a slap in the face.

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Loretta James 1 year, 5 months ago

ITS THE LAW TAKE YOUR ID WITH YOU ANYWHERE IF ASKED BY POLICE YOU SHOULD HAVE IT ON YOU.

FOR THE ELDERLY THE DMV HAVE KANSAS ID CARDS THEY MAY NOT DRIVE BUT IF THEY CASH A CHECK THEY NEED ID.

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