Opinion: Republicans can’t deny demography

November 8, 2012


— America’s 57th presidential election revealed that a second important national institution is on an unsustainable trajectory. The first, the entitlement state, is endangered by improvident promises to an aging population. It is now joined by the political party whose crucial current function is to stress the need to reform this state. And now the Republican Party, like today’s transfer-payment state, is endangered by tardiness in recognizing that demography is destiny.  

Perhaps Mitt Romney lost the 2012 election on Sept. 22, 2011, when, alarmed by Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s entry into the Republican nomination race, he rushed to Perry’s right regarding immigration, attacking the DREAM Act. He would go on to talk about forcing illegal immigrants into “self-deportation.” It is surprising that only about 70 percent of Hispanics opposed Romney.

As it has every four years since 1992, the white portion of the turnout declined in 2012. In 2008, Barack Obama became the first person elected president while losing the white vote by double digits. In 2012 — the year after the first year in which a majority of babies born in America were minorities — Hispanics were for the first time a double-digit (10 percent) portion of the turnout. Republicans have four years to figure out how to leaven their contracting base with millions more members of America’s largest and fastest-growing minority.

Romney’s melancholy but useful role has been to refute those determinists who insist that economic conditions are almost always decisive. Americans are earning less and worth less than they were four years ago; average household income is down $3,800; under the 11 presidents from Harry Truman through George W. Bush, unemployment was 8 percent or more for a total of 39 months but was over that for 43 Obama months. Yet voters preferred the president who presided over this to a Republican who, more than any candidate since the Great Depression, made his economic expertise his presidential credential.

Voters littered the political landscape with contradictions between their loudly articulated discontents and their observable behavior. Self-identified conservatives outnumber self-identified liberals 2-1 in a nation that has re-elected the most liberal president since Lyndon Johnson and his mentor Franklin Roosevelt. A nation said to be picnicking on the slope of a volcano, with molten anger bubbling just below its thin and brittle crust, has matched a rare record of stability in its central political office: For only the second time — the first was the Virginia dynasty of the third, fourth and fifth presidents, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and James Monroe — there will be three consecutive two-term presidents.

A nation vocally disgusted with the status quo has reinforced it by ratifying existing control of the executive branch and both halves of the legislative branch. After three consecutive “wave” elections in which a party gained at least 20 House seats, and at a moment when approval of Congress has risen — yes, risen — to 21 percent, voters ratified Republican control of the House, keeping in place those excoriated as obstructionists by the president the voters retained. Come January, Washington will be much as it has been, only more so.

Obama is only the second president (Andrew Jackson was the first) to win a second term with a reduced percentage of the popular vote, and the third (after James Madison and Woodrow Wilson) to win a second term with a smaller percentage of the electoral vote. A diminished figure after conducting the most relentlessly negative campaign ever run by an incumbent, his meager mandate is to not be Bain Capital. Foreshadowing continuing institutional conflict, which the constitutional system not only anticipates but encourages, Speaker John Boehner says of the House Republican caucus: “We’ll have as much of a mandate as he will.”  

The electoral vote system, so incessantly and simple-mindedly criticized, has again performed the invaluable service of enabling federalism — presidents elected by the decisions of the states’ electorates — to deliver a constitutional decisiveness that the popular vote often disguises.

Republicans can take some solace from the popular vote. But unless they respond to accelerating demographic changes — and Obama, by pressing immigration reform, can give Republicans a reef on which they can wreck themselves — the 58th presidential election may be like the 57th, only more so.

This election was fought over two issues as old as the Republic, the proper scope and actual competence of government. The president persuaded — here the popular vote is the decisive datum — almost exactly half the voters. The argument continues. As Benjamin Disraeli said, “Finality is not the language of politics.”

— George Will is a columnist for Washington Post Writers Group.    


intheknow 5 years, 5 months ago

Obama won because he has the 'it' factor. The cool kids like him. Who doesn't want to be a cool kid or at least liked by the cool kids? So there goes the popular vote. Like lemmings to the sea, there goes the nation. Told what is the newest and coolest way to think and believe. Obama, the modern day pied piper. Congratulations on being so novel.

Well, I don't want a cool guy with the 'it' factor leading our nation. It takes a bit more than talk of hope and change to get my vote. I want a LEADER. This nation needs a parent more than a buddy to step up to the plate and do the hard work of righting this ship. I don't mean morally, either. I don't look to my president to be my moral compass. But I do look to my president to LEAD. Obama had four years to have a crack at leading us and where are we? No better off. Sadly, though, no amount of donning North Face jackets by Romney/Ryan could win over the we-are-so-much-cooler-than-your-mom-and-everything-she-stands-for-crowd. Let's see how cool we feel in another four years.

jafs 5 years, 5 months ago

If you're looking for a parent, that implies you consider Americans children.

Not exactly the characterization or relationship I'd be happy with, personally.

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

"This nation needs a parent"

No. Most of us have at least one parent already. Quite a few have more than that.

I think a lot of us would prefer to not be thought of as children, as Jaf's said as well. If you, or the face of a party, thinks of millions upon millions of people as children, incapable of making an adult decision based on adult analysis of the situation, not necessarily driven by the greed of a child to be "cool" or to "receive more stuff", then all you're going to do is alienate more people.

Some of us are simply tired of being called children. Some of us are simply tired of being called deadbeats looking for handouts. Some of us are simply tired of being called anti-American, or "fake" americans when contrasted with the "Real Americans".

progressive_thinker 5 years, 5 months ago

Obama won because working America understands that the Republican party has been taken over by a bunch of wealthy, arrogant, nutcases who believe that they are entitled to buy the government with money that they have squeezed from the working class. Show me a wealthy man like Romney, and I will show you someone who likely got rich by impoverishing someone who was likely an honest, hardworking citizen.

A political party cannot be sustainable if they continue to disenfranchise women, minorities, and the working poor. That is the trajectory that the leadership of the Republican party has set. That sort of leadership will eventually render the Republican party irrelevant.

"... where are we? No better off."

You would be well served to turn off Faux Snooze, and get out of the "alternative reality" of pseudo conservatism. Our nation is indeed recovering from the disaster inflicted upon us by the Bush/Cheney administration. Fortunately, the majority of voters in the United States have now recognized the real agenda of the Republican party.

bd 5 years, 5 months ago

He won but is was real close! Almost half of the "nation" voted against him! What does that say?????

Tea anyone!

fiddleback 5 years, 5 months ago

bd, it says that they couldn't get 'er done, even with a dark-skinned president upon whom each Republican rube could project his own pet fears, turning Obama into an all-purpose right-wing Rorschach test. Even with all that rampant xenophobia, Faux News demagoguery, and maximized turnout driven by fear, the GOP still didn't have the votes.

And you know what? They will probably have even fewer next time, because even if they wanted to entice Hispanics, they've been too busy purging all the sane moderates and elevating all the dumbest and backward members of their party. Every other statement from this crowd is a gaffe. And I would check to be sure that brackish liquid in your kettle is tea; I think your beloved masters have actually had you swilling some sort of rancid runoff...

fiddleback 5 years, 5 months ago

Yes, obviously the logical next step is to spit on all those callow youth, those shallow whippersnappers who read the Rolling Stone and follow the Zooey Deschanel and do their sextin' 'n' their twitterin' 'n' their bippin' 'n' their boppin'...

Besides, what the heck do they even know, besides how to navigate the web and use fact-checking sites? What with their Tivo and their DVRs, those kids barely even watch the TV, let alone do the respectable adult thing and leave it running on Fox to get all the latest talking points embedded in their skulls...

Yep, this here country's goin' ta hail!

But by the way, being so vocally "anti-cool" is SOO hipster. I mean, I probably am cooler than your mom by a Texas mile, but I've got nothing on you...

MarcoPogo 5 years, 5 months ago

You just made the entire election process sound like the plot to "Pretty in Pink". Poor Duckie.

Alyosha 5 years, 5 months ago

Your premise that "Obama won because he has the 'it' factor" is without any evidence, and hence without any merit. What does have evidence, and hence merit, is that a majority of Americans choosing a President rejected Romney/Republican economic policies.

Not paying attention to facts, and instead relying on unexamined beliefs, is what got Republicans into trouble in their policies and spelled their doom in this Presidential election.

I suggest you start paying more attention to facts, and less to your unsupportable assertions.

Liberty275 5 years, 5 months ago

" I want a LEADER"

Wouldn't you rather have an employee?

woodscolt 5 years, 5 months ago

"Obama won because he has the 'it' factor."

You people are a riot. Just can't stand that you got your "it" handed to you. Obama won because a majority of Americans voted for him. He won with 332 plus electoral votes to 206. That, in easy red neck republican language is gettin "it" handed to you. Not even close. Not even all the pundits at fox huffing and puffing and stuffing romeny down our throats could save him retirement.Not even Karl Rove could huff and puff romney into the white house. Not even the voter suppression campaign by the republicans could steal Romney into the White House. He was a dud from the start and will live a life of luxury in retirement. This great country got up and roared Obama back to the White house and gave America a new Lease On Life. Even you will benefit from Americas decision.

cowboy 5 years, 5 months ago

You have to ask why would they give up their beliefs to win an election. We can see what they actually do when elected and show their true colors i.e. Brownback , Kasich , Walker et. al .

Have a very good memory as these folks "reconfigure".

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

It's not the individuals. It's the institutions.

I think you'll find that as more and more of "them" assume positions of power and responsibility, they'll behave exactly as their predecessors did. (Define "them" and "us" in any way you choose).

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

What I'm saying is that there is an inherent corrupting influence for anyone who takes the journey towards the Presidency. The journey towards the Senate or House have their own corrupting influences as does the journey towards the Governor's mansion.

I'm not saying that Romney would have behaved just like Bush. I'm saying he would have been corrupted just like Bush. I'm saying that this affliction is not limited to Republicans but afflicts Democrats to the same degree. It afflicts men and women alike. It afflicts blacks and whites alike. It afflicts gays and straights, Latinos and Asians.

I'm saying that those who are immune to the corrupting influences are the people who fall beside the road before their journey is complete. I'm saying that if Jesus ran for President and was elected, he would no longer be Jesus when he got there.

fiddleback 5 years, 5 months ago

"...During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I was hosting a 50,000-a-plate luncheon and talking about what a dependent loser you are, my son..."

Corey Williams 5 years, 5 months ago

If Jesus ran for president, republicans would lead the chant of "crucify". "34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (Matthew 25:34-46 for those of you playing at home.)

Mike Ford 5 years, 5 months ago

I voted twice for Obama because he acted human, Romney and positions was like watching a tilt a whirl. I love the whole double down on the takers nonsense rush and the clowns pushed in defeat yesterday. I've been at a job fifteen years and paid off debt and I've been a Democrat since 1988. The Gop lost because they believe their Democrat stereotypes in the bubble but the reality didn't gel with it.

KEITHMILES05 5 years, 5 months ago

I agree if Mitt had stayed centrist he would have probably eeked out a win.

As for "are you better off today than 4 years ago".......hell yes I am! I am paying down my mortgage and investing heavily in 403B and Roth. Thus,

Romney and his "flip flopper" hurt him tremendously. When people aren't being "real" the electorate can see through you. It never works.

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

Due to a user's bannination, a bunch of comments now are attached to this, and give the impression of being against the post by donttreadonme.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 5 months ago

Don't worry-- we'll let you keep your father's hood.

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

The browning of America isn't the problem. I don't care if you are brown, blue, green or purple, if you speak to them, you will find that their concerns are very much the same as your concerns. They want a better life for their children. They want better schools. They want jobs and they want good health. They mirror us, we all mirror each other. You will find that out in any conversation you have with them.

No, the problem isn't their color, the problem is when you don't speak to them or can't speak to them. If they are on the other side of the globe, it's more difficult to speak to them. If they are speaking a language you don't understand, you can't speak to them. Or if you choose to avoid them, you can't speak to them.

We in Lawrence are lucky that our university brings in people from around the world. But if I see two people from China walking down the street, speaking Chinese, they will be "them". If they're speaking German or Spanish, Russian or Arabic, they will be "them". If they speak English, and I can engage them in a conversation, then they will be one of "us".

deec 5 years, 5 months ago

Or, conversely, Americans could join the rest of the world and learn a second language.

jafs 5 years, 5 months ago

Also, we could just stop classifying into "us" and "them", regardless of language.

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

Jafs, Imagine going to a social event, mingling with the other guests. If there are two people standing nearby, speaking a foreign language, they are setting themselves apart. It's not me making that decision, it's them. They certainly have that right, but it is them that's deciding.

In that social gathering, there may be a time to try to engage someone in conversation. We sense breaks in their conversation, opportunities to engage without interrupting. There are natural and intuitive clues. When it's a foreign language, we lose that sense, we lose the clues. We're much more likely to simply move along and engage someone else. It becomes a self fulfilling prophesy, they set themselves apart and we allow them to set themselves apart, which causes them to set themselves apart some more. Sure, I could learn Spanish. But what if they're Russian, or Chinese, what if they're from Africa (I might have that one covered if I could only remember my junior high French).

jafs 5 years, 5 months ago

I don't classify the world into "us" and "them".

Of course, it's harder to interact with people if you don't have a common language.

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

There's always going to be "us" and "them". It doesn't have to be a negative, though, just a certain recognition. When my wife goes out with the girls, or I go out with the guys, there most certainly is a "us" and "them". I'm not meaning for it to be synonymous with "good" and "bad". But I can tell you most assuredly that if I decided to tag along on girls night out, I would be one of "them".

jafs 5 years, 5 months ago

We're all just people, as far as I can tell.

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

We're not all Americans or Mexicans, Germans or Russians. We all have certain loyalties to each. Mr. Obama, on Jan. 20th, will make a certain pledge that will make that clear.

Sure, we're all brothers and sisters. That said, I have "real" brothers and sisters.

jafs 5 years, 5 months ago

There are a very large number of ways to split people up, and nationality is just one of them.

However, we're all people, regardless of that, and I think we're better served by focusing on that commonality.

But you're free to do as you like, of course, and if you want to continually identify groups as "us and them", go ahead.

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

How about if I split our group between "you" and "me".

jafs 5 years, 5 months ago

I have no idea what you mean.

Perhaps you're just trying to get the last word?

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

Trying to be funny. I guess I failed.

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

A British band, or as George Bernard Shaw might say, "Two people separated by a common language".

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

If I were a tourist in some foreign country, staying for just a short time, it might not be reasonable for me to learn their language with any level of proficiency. However, if my stay were long term, or if I planned on staying there, becoming one of "them", then it would be nothing short of arrogance for me to expect them to conform to my language. It wouldn't matter the country or the language. I would expect the same here. If someone comes here for a short period of time, I would not expect them to learn English. They could muddle along to the best of their ability finding their own comfort level. However, if they are going to stay here for any length of time, if they expect to interact with the native population, I would expect them to learn the dominate language.

BTW- I studied French in junior high, for all the good it's done me. Back then, the demographic shift we've seen in the past several decades wouldn't have been known to us then. Even three decades ago, when Japanese was expected to be of great help in the business world, that has been replaced with Chinese. Who knows what the next several decades will bring.

voevoda 5 years, 5 months ago

Maybe, jhawkinsf, the people walking down the street in Lawrence speaking German or Spanish, Russian or Arabic, happen to be American citizens who are practicing their command of foreign languages. Unlike you, they might actually retain the knowledge of a foreign language that they gained from study in school because they continually practice it.

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

Maybe. But if they go into a restaurant and order food, or go to a doctor, or call the cable TV company, it would be helpful if they spoke English. As it is unhelpful if they speak German or Spanish, Russian or Arabic.

deec 5 years, 5 months ago

Where I live now, it is possible to have conversations in Czech with people who are 2-6 generations away from the Old Country. I had an elderly relative who refused to learn English, and I think she lived here for 50 years or so before she died.

My kin were not magically infused with a knowledge of English the minute they stepped onto Ellis Island or across the Canadian border. Over time, they learned it, just as many of today's immigrants do.

I'll bet you could go to certain neighborhoods in KC and find plenty of people who only speak Italian or Hmong.

I don't think it's a bad thing that Americans may be forced by circumstances or good business sense to learn Spanish. People all over the world speak at least two languages.

If someone wants to eavesdrop on other people's conversations and inject themselves into others' conversations, then they should take the initiative and learn the other folks's tongue. Perhaps people converse in their native tongues precisely because they don't want strangers listening in.

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

I'm certain I could go into any major American city and find people who speak only Italian or Hmong. Or Spanish, German or Chinese. Or Russian, Czech or Arabic. Or Hebrew, Portuguese or French. Or Japanese, Korean or Vietnamese. Or, well, I could go on. But my original though on this subject, which was in response to a now removed comment, had to do with the "browning" of America. I still believe that I could care less about their color, race, ethnicity, culture, etc. What is needed in communication. With that, we see each others humanity. We see that they are like us, we are like them. Without communication, not so much.

Your kin who lived here for 50 years without learning English, that is certainly her right. But if, as I gather from your post, her native tongue was Czech, what obligation do we have to accommodate her choice? Must we print out a special ballot for her in Czech? Must all calls she makes begin with "Press 1 for English, press 2 for Czech"? Must we print bus schedules in Czech, press SAP to listen to TV in Czech? Or is it OK to just say, she's making a choice for herself, a difficult one, a choice I might not choose. But we honor that choice by simply allowing her to get by as best she can?

Obviously, we are a country of immigrants. Most came here speaking a foreign language. My people certainly did. Few, if any, accommodations were made for us in those times, which facilitated our integration. Maybe by necessity, maybe by coercion. But integrate we did. To our benefit.

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

Working on your next banning already, I see.

And no, not all your core beliefs, just the ones that are wrong, or irrelevant.

Such as your belief that blacks, latinos, and idiots make a complete and sound list.

progressive_thinker 5 years, 5 months ago

"So the GOP is supposed to abandon their core beliefs to get the vote"

As long as the GOP holds as a core belief the disenfranchisement of women, minorities, and the working poor, the GOP can expect to be irrelevant in another decade. The GOP cannot expect to succeed by being exclusive.

The GOP might see some success if there were some core set of beliefs that were consistently expressed by the party leadership, and which do not exclude large blocks of voters. That has not happened with the Tea Party present. The people that the Tea Publicans have sought to silence ultimately will have a louder voice.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

This is VERY well said, especially the last sentence. Kudos.Ever think about going into politics? I'd vote for you.

progressive_thinker 5 years, 5 months ago

Well thank you Cait. No politics in the future for me. I have been heavily sedated for a month now just to get through the election. All is well now [or at least improved.]

Alyosha 5 years, 5 months ago

Those "core beliefs" are what Americans rejected in voting for President. It's hard to take, if you hold those beliefs yourself, but pretending that Romney/Republican policies weren't rejected in the Presidential election is the same as all those folks pretending that the polls were "skewed" to favor Obama. They weren't, clearly.

Republicans won't bring anything meaningful to policy discussions until they give up their delusions and base their beliefs on empirical evidence.

fiddleback 5 years, 5 months ago

Okay Harry, the possessive form is "its." Other than that, there's just absolutely nothing wrong with your post or your logic. I would give it an A-, but that "God Bless!" at the end just sounded so sincere and universal, I'm going to go ahead and up your grade to an A. You're good people.

deec 5 years, 5 months ago

And...he's gone again. Less than an hour-is that a record?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 5 months ago

" Yet voters preferred the president who presided over this to a Republican who, more than any candidate since the Great Depression, made his economic expertise his presidential credential."

But his "economic expertise" derives from leading a company that has profited from economic shell games and shipping jobs out of the country, enriching himself and his partners, while destroying companies and laying off thousands of workers.

tolawdjk 5 years, 5 months ago

Obama months? Is this some new calendar?

repaste 5 years, 5 months ago

So the millions who will seek care should just go jump in the volcano instead, and leave the Dr's for the fat white guys? You are special.

fiddleback 5 years, 5 months ago

For whatever kernel of truth hides in that smear, those "idiots" seem to be intuiting their short-term economic interests a bit better than those who make under 50K but vote for the GOP. Or hadn't you heard of Thomas Frank?

fiddleback 5 years, 5 months ago

Actually, those "idiots" who voted D were intuiting that Obama would keep their taxes about the same (keeping the Bush tax cuts for the lower brackets). Most really had no idea what Romney wanted to do, because he would never actually explain it. And even if a few "idiots" watched the debates, the most they would know was that he wanted to cut all brackets' tax rates to 20%, and close unspecified loopholes, but then wouldn't at all explain how the heck that could be deficit neutral, leaving them to suspect that the lower brackets might somehow see a net increase in taxes. So frankly, the "idiots" didn't have much to go on, even if they tried to compare. So maybe we should just stop calling them "idiots" when whatever mental effort they could have expended would not have been rewarded or led to a smarter answer.

fiddleback 5 years, 5 months ago

No, I don't believe much if any of it, but if they can't even lie coherently, even "idiots" can tell, and that's what loses elections, as it certainly cost Romney the margin of victory. Look, I get your drift. Once in office, their governance and policies are not all that different, and the real issue is the Fed and the impending hellscape of hyperinflation. So why not call the Fed "idiots" instead of scapegoating on the electorate just because they didn't consider Gary Johnson as having a real chance?

fiddleback 5 years, 5 months ago

Only the greenest of political newbies believe all the rhetoric; I'd say that most people, at least when questioned, don't really believe much of it. Emotionally, they maintain a sliver of hope that some of it will come true-- that's the nature of the game. You play it yourself even with alternatives candidates like Gary; it's not as if you actually think a 3rd party libertarian candidate will be elected, let alone achieve much if any of that machete work. It's symbolic. Most Bush voters knew some/most of his talk was just that, but they trusted him instinctively. Instinct about where to place more trust, not naive faith in all promises-- that is the nature of the beast. So your label of "idiots" becomes meaningless-- here I thought you were talking about policy-illiterate flunkies who vote on superficialities. Who you're really talking about is everybody who has some trust in what a candidate advocates or promises. And actually, Obama voters have gotten a better return than you might think: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

voevoda 5 years, 5 months ago

I gather, Liberty_One, that you hold to the principle that most people are idiots. There's an old adage that you might consider taking to heart: Don't argue with an idiot, people might not know the difference.

repaste 5 years, 5 months ago

That was Mark Twain who said, "don't try to match wits with a half wit"

Alyosha 5 years, 5 months ago

This post makes zero sense. Americans rejected the kind of policies they hold mostly responsible for the mess of our debt and economy. They saw through the assertions that Obama was to blame for the disasters he inherited, and gave him credit for trying to fix things in the face of unprecedented Republican opposition.

That's clear from the evidence of voters, regardless of whatever ideas you have in your head.

SnakeFist 5 years, 5 months ago

How do you reconcile your notion that so many Americans are idiots with your libertarian belief that people know what's best for themselves? It seems contradictory to me. On the one hand, if people are idiots then they need government to tell them what to do; on the other hand, if they know what's best for themselves then they're not idiots. So which is it?

progressive_thinker 5 years, 5 months ago

FauxSnooze regurgitation alert..........................

Liberty275 5 years, 5 months ago

FEMA is working in NYC about as well as it worked in New Orleans, which is to say "not particularly well".

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

Spin spin spin. You'd think Will would fall over from dizziness.
Not ONCE in his article does Will mention women. This is despite the fact that, according to CNN's exit polls, there was an historical 18 point gender gap in the electorate. 55% of the people that voted Tuesday had lady parts. And don't think those women didn't have a whole lot to do with propelling Obama to re-election.
The GOP's War on Women (and don't even begin to think it doesn't exist) has failed miserably. It's mighty damn sad when someone asks, "Hey, did that rape guy win?" and you have to answer, "Which one?". (Oh and by the way, not a single one of the "rape guys" won.)

maybeso 5 years, 5 months ago

It's mighty damn sad when someone asks, "Hey, did that rape guy win?" and you have to answer, "Which one?". omg, this is one of the best quotes ever, would be funny if it weren't so sad.

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

It seems like the ljworld needs to think about re-coding their thread mechanisms or whatever to deal with banned users. The thread just reattaches somewhere else when the original comment is removed, and now all of us appear to be giving rather reactionary responses to an entirely unrelated post.

FloridaSunshine 5 years, 5 months ago

So glad you addressed this, jonas. I was thinking the same thing when Grumby was disappearedededed...just didn't say anything about it. Thanks for saying what, probably, a lot of us have been thinking. Hope ljw notices...

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

Quote from a friend:"Romney won the white, past middle age, Christian male vote and basically lost all others. What happens to the GOP in 20 years when all of these old timers pass away? It would seem the GOP's influence and membership are dwindling daily."
Except, it seems, for Kansas. Oh well, "this too shall pass".

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

Reports are coming in that the Republican party is coming apart at the seams. At the center is Karl Rove, who presided over a fund of nearly half billion dollars contributed by millionaire and billionaire contributors. Although Rove's Crossroads PAC did deliver some wins, the vast bulk were losses. Now those contributors are angry and looking for blood.
Like a pack of wild dogs they are turning on each other; blaming Romney and other top GOP leaders. They are also blaming the Dems GOTV expertise. This little comment just ticked me the &^% off.
"The Democrats do voter registration like a factory, like a business, and Republicans tend to leave it to the blue hairs." (Henry Barbour)
Blue hairs? BLUE HAIRS? That's not just ageist, it's sexist. And let's not talk about the hell the GOP put the League of Women Voters through in their voter registration efforts.
With people like that as your leaders, no wonder you lost.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

On a brighter note, this also means that Citizens United didn't have nearly as much impact as people feared. The American electorate sent a pretty clear message that they weren't going to have their elections bought. In many of the races that were lost Republicans outspent their opponents as much as five to one going up to as much as TEN to one.

jafs 5 years, 5 months ago

That's something to hope for, I agree.

jhawkinsf 5 years, 5 months ago

Yet just yesterday, many posters blamed Tobias' loss to Jenkins on money, his lack of, her having more.

Lots of mixed messages, in my opinion.

Paul R Getto 5 years, 5 months ago

Boy "genius" Rove had a 1% success rate.

patkindle 5 years, 5 months ago

It is difficult to overestimate the sense of entitlement and feelings of envy or underestimate the gullibility and stupidity of over half of the American electorate.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

Yeah. You'd think all of those millionaires would be a bit smarter, given all that money they have.

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

Perhaps. But it's not so difficult to accurately estimate the unfounded sense of arrogance and feeling of superiority of a single internet poster that believes over half of the American electorate are envious, gullible, entitled, or stupid.

fiddleback 5 years, 5 months ago

I'd go alphabetical: 1. Ailes; 2. Limbaugh; 3. Rove. Will is just a vestigial pseudo-intellectual, often reduced to railing against delusions of left-leaning connotations in things like blue jeans and college football. Hilarious stuff, but he's hardly a conceptual or financial Pied Piper on the same level as the big cahunas...

blindrabbit 5 years, 5 months ago

If the GOP is to survive into the future here are some issues that need to be addressed. All are serious, some unlikely to happen:

Cause the Party to act "modern" on Civil Rights issues instead of like The Old South. Disallow Florida to participate in the Presidential elections. Get with-in on same sex marriage issues, should be Civil Right and not States Right. Kick the NRA in the keister, and I'm a long time member. For the Party's own good, distance from the likes of Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Dobbs, Trump, Nugent. Trash the Citizens United ruling and influence of Ailes, Koch-a-Kolas, Adelson and Murdoch. Trash the bigoted social issues from the GOP Platform. Realize that women, and minorities are the future election deciders. Dubya not decider any more. Realize that influence of gray skinned old white men is an albatross for the Party. Get with-it on imigration issues , OR ELSE. Review tax issues for all religious organizations that promote a political position. Quit trying to gut Roe v. Wade, It's a Civil Right Issue and not State's Rights.. Indict and try Dubya, Cheney, Tenet, Rumsfeld and Condy on war crimes issues.Iraq war lead-up. Standardize State voter requirments for Federal election, Hours, ,Registration and Voter I.D. Distance Party from Voter Supression appearance issues. Promote Karl Rove as a look alike replacement in Ned Beatty's role in re-make of Deliverance. Realize Dan Issa is a crook. Look up his history if you doubt it.

riverdrifter 5 years, 5 months ago

"Promote Karl Rove as a look alike replacement in Ned Beatty's role in re-make of Deliverance" Wheee, wheee, wheee!

Liberty275 5 years, 5 months ago

"Disallow Florida to participate in the Presidential elections."

You don't particularly like the constitution, do you?

blindrabbit 5 years, 5 months ago

mea culpa Dan Issa should be Darrell Issa, still a crook!

Brad Avery 5 years, 5 months ago

Laughable idea. Obama is really an Eisenhower Republican.

windjammer 5 years, 5 months ago

I voted for Mr. Obama because I did not like the way Mitty boy flopped his head and blinked his eyes.

blindrabbit 5 years, 5 months ago

What about his corncob in the keister walk? Looked kinda anal retentive to me!

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 5 months ago

It has been my experience that the GOP can deny anything.

Klumma 5 years, 5 months ago

" FloridaSunshine 1 hour, 10 minutes ago

So glad you addressed this, jonas. I was thinking the same thing when Grumby was disappearedededed...just didn't say anything about it. Thanks for saying what, probably, a lot of us have been thinking. Hope ljw notices..."

Umm...Yeah......Sharp as a marble.

FloridaSunshine 5 years, 5 months ago

Klumma...what a surprise finding you carrying a grudge from one thread to another. (Not really a surprise...more a disappointment.) You couldn't take the fact that I stood up to you by defending a kid "On The Street"??...on another thread??!! I've stood up to much worse than you, Klumma, in this lifetime. I'm not some youngster who will take your crap, but I will stand in for those youngsters you are insulting. I have morals and parameters and when you step on those, you've stepped too far. It's conclusive that your goal on ljw is to insult with your wearying, ongoing nonsence. Hence, your bringing your grudge toward me to another thread. Your dudeness is indeed showing, Klumma, and dudeness can be quite revolting. Grow up and do something positive in your life that you can be proud of in the years to come. It makes all the difference in a life well-lived vs the alternative. I don't know exactly why, but I always feel sorry for people such as yourself. Such a sad waste of humanity, I suppose. I've been attacked here on ljw many times...I don't think another put-down from you will make much difference. I know who I am...and I know my belief system, Klumma. That makes the words you and others say about me as water off a duck's back. I maintain ongoing hope for positive change in you, Klumma...I know you (and your cohorts) can be SO much more than you've been led to believe. The best to you on this incredibly beautiful day!!

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

Alternatively, she might be angry due to being cheaply insulted for agreeing with me on something that actually has some merit.

Liberty275 5 years, 5 months ago

Republicans need to start thinking with their brains and not with their fictional religious character. If they remove their god-inspired bigotry from their policies they will be nationally electable.

Unfortunately. to win the primary you have to appeal to the nutballs in the party and that doesn't leave you much wiggle room to move back to the center for the general without being a bald-faced panderer.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

So is Israel, Britain, India, Italy, France, Spain, Germany and about 98% of the rest of the world. Australia even had a headline that said, "Breathe a sigh of relief." India (for obvious reasons) had some concerns about how it would effect job out sourcing, but in general were positive. In the UK, there were actually some digs at the GOP in an article titled, “Olympic levels of Schadenfreude" (a reference to Romney's somewhat "negative" behavior during the Olympics). Gotta love it.

blindrabbit 5 years, 5 months ago

liberty275: My Florida comment has little to with me or my opinions! It is the State of Florida that has little respect for the constitution. When your State Officials screw with the election results and/or try to control the results by voter supression tactics, it apparent the Florida has little respect for the rest of the country. Election screw-ups in 2000, 2004, 2008 and now 2012 with the plastic looking Kathleen Harris serving orange juice to the Renquist Court and the scum bag (and likely crook) Governor Rick Scott refusing to address the voting problems is a fiasco.

Funny how Dubya dumped on Harris' senate bid as soon as he got all the benefit he extract from her. Jeb turned his back on her as well. Back to squeezing oranges I guess!

Rick Scott and his Columbia Medical adventure has been sued and officers convicted of millions of dollars in Medicare billing fraud. Columbia was the company that tried to build a hospital in Lawrence about 10 years ago. Luckily that did not happen

Liberty275 5 years, 5 months ago

If you have any proof of election fraud, voter fraud or voter suppression, you should contact the US Attorney General instead of just complaining about it.

booyalab 5 years, 5 months ago

From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

That one's being tossed around a lot these days. I wonder how many people using it know that it's as almost completely manufactured as the one about democracies failing when the public learns that they can vote themselves largess.

You can attribute them to Tytler if you want, but you're not going to be able to prove it.

(Not to mention, of course, that the general definition of complacency or apathy, or dependence (which one are we supposed to be on?) is generally: didn't vote the way I wanted them to)

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

That may (but may not) (but still may) be true, yet (to be honest)(and I generally try to be) it's not always so bad. /I'm not sure, in the end, what sort of dividends would result from the above multiplicands.

blindrabbit 5 years, 5 months ago

Liberty275: Somebody once told me a story about a duck a walk and a quack.

JohnBrown 5 years, 5 months ago

What the RINO's* need to do to win elections.

  1. Give up the false idea that lower taxes for the so-called 'job creators' actually would create more jobs. Fact: the Bush tax cuts failed (and continue to fail) miserably.

  2. Be consistent. If you say you are "for small government", then quit trying to make government big enough to force its way between a woman and her doctor.

  3. Be consistent. If you say you are for "individual liberty" then quit trying to force your way between a woman and her doctor just so you can take that woman's liberty away.

  4. Be consistent. If you say "Country First" and are for democracy, then quit trying to limit voter turnout.

  5. Tell the truth. If you are for Social Security vouchers then just admit it.

  6. Tell the whole truth. If you say you have an economic plan for getting the economy back on track, then spell it out.

  7. Tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Don't give us the "you didn't build that" crap, or the "O'Bama eliminated the work requirement on welfare" lies, or the "O'Bama's a socialist" bunk.

Spin, spin, spin. Is that all you've got?



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