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Archive for Friday, May 11, 2012

Moving speech

May 11, 2012

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To the editor:

After reading Leonard Pitts’ column in last Thursday’s Journal-World, I took his advice and watched the YouTube speech young Christian Matthew Vines recently gave to a church in Wichita.

Vines faced the dilemma of many gay Christians, but instead of denying either his faith or his sexuality, he took a courageous third route: a deep examination of the Bible. After two years of exhaustive research, his conclusions are revelatory; of the six verses that supposedly condemn homosexuality, one is part of the Levitical Laws modern Christians are not bound by, two are a biased mistranslation of Greek, and the rest are warnings against excessive lust in general. Loving gay relationships are not censured by the Bible. His work is fantastic scholarship as well as a moving sermon, and I encourage everyone to listen to it, even if you think you will disagree.

Comments

tomatogrower 2 years, 7 months ago

So do you think someone who gets hired before you do, because they have a better work record than you, but they're gay is a special consideration? You can probably go out and rent an apartment anywhere you want, but some gay people get turned down, because they are gay. So who really gets the special consideration?

mom_of_three 2 years, 7 months ago

"special protections" - you mean like having their marriage or union recognized by the government for insurance, tax and legal purposes. Those kind of special protections that EVERY other citizen has?

rtwngr 2 years, 7 months ago

Explaining away verses in the Bible to bolster your argument is as wrong as pulling verses out of context to do the same. The Bible is many things but the one thing that it definitely is is the word of God. At the natural center of all living organisms is the desire, the need to procreate its species. This is part of the natural order. If you take a candid, non filtered look at the male and female bodies, they are developed to procreate the species in harmony with each other. The giving of the male to the receiving of the female and the return back again with life. This is part of the natural cycle of the human as designed by God. The giving of life is what God is all about.

The homosexual act, although described as love, and I am sure that there is extreme depth of emotional connection, is devoid of the life giving nature of which our bodies are naturally programmed. So the act becomes an act of self gratification. There is no real giving because both participants are taking from each other. Now, you would argue that this can take place between a man and a woman too and you would be correct. Enter all of the arguments about non-marital sex and contraception.

God's design is that sex should be between a man and a woman and that it not be artificially stripped of its life giving design. The act of marriage, in society, ideally should provide a structure that is both healthy and nurturing for offspring therefore strengthening society in an ordered way. Homosexuality lies outside of the natural order and should be discouraged. All of this being said, we all are invited to participate in God's love and mercy by surrendering ourselves and our failings to his son who offered himself as a final sacrifice on the cross at Calvary.

jaywalker 2 years, 7 months ago

"The homosexual act, although described as love, and I am sure that there is extreme depth of emotional connection, is devoid of the life giving nature of which our bodies are naturally programmed."

So homosexuals can't love because they can't procreate? You know this from personal experience? Love, like faith, comes from the soul. Who knows what love...er... evil lies in the hearts of men? The rtwngr knows!

jafs 2 years, 7 months ago

Heterosexual sex, like gay sex, includes pleasure as well as procreation.

If it were only designed for procreation, it wouldn't have to be pleasurable.

Given the current overpopulation of the planet, I'd say there's a pretty good argument that gay and lesbian folks and their activities provide a good check on that overpopulation.

I agree that marriage should provide a healthy and nurturing structure for children.

jafs 2 years, 7 months ago

I assume you're referring to AIDS?

Lesbian sex doesn't involve much risk of that, in fact it's probably the safest sex anybody could have.

Many activities that gay men could pursue carry a rather low risk of AIDS as well.

And, heterosexual sex involves the possibility of many STD's.

What's your point exactly?

Greg Cooper 2 years, 7 months ago

The only thing deadly, Gotland, is your attitude. You ignore any fact presented, and blythely continue spewing misinformation.

It may interest you that hetero sex can also spread STDs, and that homosexuality is not necessarily the helter-skelter, let's have sex with anyone activity of which you are so afraid. Gay people have the same issues with courtship and relationships that "straights" have. There is no reason to believe that gay sex is any more dangerous than sex between "traditional" couples.

The fear you and others show is borne of ignorance. Ignorance can be cured. Stupid can not, as it persists in pushing forward its uninformed agenda in the face of reality.

Grow up, become an adult and think.

Greg Cooper 2 years, 7 months ago

It may be a fact that SOME anal sex spreads AIDS, but not all anal sex spreads AIDS. In point of fact, so does sex among drug users, blood transfusion recipients, and other actions not related to "gayness".

Again, you have taken a small, specific fact and extrapolated that one fact to the entire AIDS community.

I'd like it if there were one specific action we could point to, the cesation of which would halt the spread of AIDS. However, gay sex is not that action.

Again, I implore you to get off the bigot bandwagon and accept that gay love can be as good-or as bad--as hetero love, and will have the same exact rewards and consequences, because gays are people, too, with the same foibles and strengths as the rest of us.

Now, be a good boy and think before your react.

meggers 2 years, 7 months ago

I hate to break it to you, but straight people have anal sex, too.

Pastor_Bedtime 2 years, 7 months ago

And married couples who choose not to procreate are subverting your God's will?

jonas_opines 2 years, 7 months ago

"The Bible is many things but the one thing that it definitely is is the word of God."

Nah.

Kirk Larson 2 years, 7 months ago

So you would have the government establish YOUR religion as the law of the land. Haven't read the First Amendment in a while, have you?

Lisa Medsker 2 years, 7 months ago

That's right! All sex should be life-giving, so no more infertile or people past the age of childbearing should ever get married, because they are doing it for their own selfish pleasure! Everybody wants children, since 17 billion little miracles just aren't quite enough, and to not want children, or to have sexual relations without the intention of procreating, is totally unnatural! We as Americans reject everything unnatural, like polyester fabric and air conditioning!

Did I get that right?

Liberty275 2 years, 7 months ago

Since the ploy is a poor way of swaying opinion, I imagine the writer is just trying to soothe the dissonance he's feeling.

Also, their is no god.

Liberty275 2 years, 7 months ago

...and people that don't know when to use "there".

Katara 2 years, 7 months ago

rtwngr (anonymous) says…"This is part of the natural cycle of the human as designed by God."

Explain animals that engage in homosexual behavior. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...

pusscanthropus 2 years, 7 months ago

Hate to burst your self-righteous bubble, rtwngr, but our closest relatives, the bonobos--they may be closer to us than chimpanzees-- practice homosexual sex. They do it just for fun too! Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZiTzx...

jaywalker 2 years, 7 months ago

" 'cause I couldn't care less what you do with your body and life....Just stay the heck out of my life, and that includes getting special protections and considerations that could hurt my chances."

"......because, let's face it, you're less than me."

Finished that off for ya. Shouldn't you be genuflecting w/ your friends from Topeka?

I shouldn't be, though always am, stunned at the number of people who just don't get it. Kinda like being shocked at the make-up of humanity at the DMV; you've seen it before yet it's always a slap in the face.

jonas_opines 2 years, 7 months ago

Is your computer's quotation key broken?

I only ask because the only other reason I see for all of that is that you are attempting to be clever.

/. . . . and you should probably stop trying.

50YearResident 2 years, 7 months ago

"Levitical Laws modern Christians are not bound by, two are a biased mistranslation of Greek, and the rest are warnings against excessive lust in general. Loving gay relationships are not censured by the Bible".

Biased mistranslations of Greek. Isn't the Bible full of those? Which leads to doubt how much of it is the true word of God. It has been written and rewritten for hundreds of years.

jafs 2 years, 7 months ago

I think Jesus would be saddened and upset by the activities of many Christians.

Abdu Omar 2 years, 7 months ago

Not only would Jesus not know this Bible, he wouldn't recognize his own name. Jesus? He called himself Heshua or Yeshua, not Jesus or Isa or "H"esus.

somedude20 2 years, 7 months ago

Jesus, what is the big deal about two people of the same sex wanting the same (not more) but equal friggin rights that non-homosexual people have? Look, I will try and come down to your caveman/cavewomen ways of thinking, gay men mean less competition for men when trying to find a women. Gay women mean less competition for heterosexual women when it comes to men......just leave it at that and let them be happy ( or miserable in marriage like many of us) Leave the bible out of this as there is more proof that Bigfoot is real when compared with that book of stories

Greg Cooper 2 years, 7 months ago

Paul, just ignore, as you often do, the irrelevant arguments and continue with the logic at which you are so good.

Enlightenment 2 years, 7 months ago

The bible is a good book, just look at its sales over the years. It provides an interesting story, but it's just that, a story.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the story book indicates the first man was Adam and his partner was made in his likeness. They had two sons. How does the world's population then originate from two men?

Regardless, I believe Jesus probably was a real character and his life's story makes him the world's most popular hippie. Just think about how the story describes him as born from unwed parents, didn't have a job, wandered around living off others' generosity, was appreciative of life, was compassionate and caring of others, was outspoken and free thinking and offered his opinion on life. Sounds like a pretty cool guy, unlike those "supposedly living in his likeness." You know darn well that if Jesus was alive on this earth today, he would be all for two people marrying regardless of their sex.

ebyrdstarr 2 years, 7 months ago

There is actually no historical evidence for the existence of Jesus. Historians writing at the time made no mention of him. The first recorded mentions of Christians are from around 112 C.E.

There were several men around the time Jesus is supposed to have lived who also claimed to be the messiah. The Jesus story as recorded in the bible might well be some amalgamation of all of those characters. Maybe one of them was even called Jesus. But there really isn't any evidence (outside the New Testament, that is) that Jesus of Nazareth lived and died the way it is related in the bible.

grammaddy 2 years, 7 months ago

When did God write the Bible? I thought it's books were written by man. And since the Catholic Church banned so many books, how can we really know what God meant? Having been written by so many different people makes me wonder,Doesn't that make it open to many more interpretations? And who is to say which interpretation is the right one?

George_Braziller 2 years, 7 months ago

The commonly accepted version of the Bible is a collection of translations of translations of translations.

Put a piece of paper in a typewriter and type anything. Make a photocopy of that, then make a photocopy of the photocopy, make a copy of the copy of the copy and repeat the process numerous times. Eventually you can't even read what was originally typed. .

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 7 months ago

The Flying Spaghetti Monster says it's quite alright for consenting adults to use any of their appendages, noodly or otherwise, any way they like.

Ken Lassman 2 years, 7 months ago

Not to go too far off-topic, but I'd like to congratulate the young man for taking seriously the apparent incongruity between his experience of reality (being gay AND deeply Christian) and the stand of modern Christian interpretation against homosexuality. Not only did he have to get very clear about his own personal perceptions, but he also had to do some very serious scholarship as well as apply a defensible blend of logic and compassion to write his essay.

To hear how he dropped out of higher education to write this piece demonstrates to me how he was able to take the wisdom of higher education and run with it, showing a mastery of the material in ways that most undergraduates only get a glimpse of. I would imagine that most Christians who go to seminary seldom display such a comprehensive mastery of the scholastic, logical and compassionate skills.

Job well done, I say. Keep up the good work.

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