Archive for Thursday, March 15, 2012

Kansas House prayer gets political

March 15, 2012


— A prayer to open the House session on Thursday included comments about abortion, same-sex marriage and religious freedom.

Father James Gordon of St. John Vianney in Maple Hill, delivered the prayer, saying, "We ask you to strengthen our understanding of traditional marriage: one man and one woman. We ask you to bring us back to virtuous morals in society, morals that kept us from killing a child in the womb through abortion.

"We ask you to defend us now in the fight for true religious freedom and freedom of conscience, that seems to be threatened now in the public sphere."

Gordon was a guest of Rep. Mike Kiegerl, R-Olathe. People who are invited to lead the daily prayer to open the House session are asked to steer away from political topics.

House Speaker Mike O"Neal, R-Hutchinson, said Gordon's prayer "arguably went beyond" those guidelines.

House Minority Leader Paul Davis, D-Lawrence, said the prayer was inappropriate.

"The prayer needs to be ecumenical," Davis said.

Thomas Witt, executive director of the Kansas Equality Coalition, which advocates for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered persons, said, "Prayers at the beginning of the each day's session of the Legislature are meant to ask for the blessings of the creator. Using prayer to launch political attacks against one's opponents is unacceptable."


sourpuss 6 years, 2 months ago

The fact that any prayer is read before convening government business is the problem here, not the content of the prayer. That is like criticizing someone for their spouse-beating technique.

Laura Wilson 6 years, 2 months ago

If I'd been sitting in that session I'd have been highly offended, but, then, I'd have been offended by any prayer in a secular setting like this. Totally agree with you, sourpuss. No prayer is going to cover everyone and every religion and definitely not the 'no religion at all' people.

I just love when the religious right gets all upset over their own religious freedom but try to stuff their religion down my throat.

Pastor_Bedtime 6 years, 2 months ago

Idiot theocrats. High time the Kansas Taliban preyed themselves out of office. It seems hate speech is sanctioned and endorsed as part of each session.

somedude20 6 years, 2 months ago

If there were a god, it would never take responsibility for creating these people let alone listen to them.

Maybe Mike Kiegerl would be better off writting Santa asking him to stop giving presents to gays, women, the poor, the sick and weak, and the Dems

Patricia Davis 6 years, 2 months ago

We ask you dear lord to please strike dead (remember this is the old testament) all of the pharisees.

moonflower 6 years, 2 months ago

we ask you father, to stick it in your ear

question4u 6 years, 2 months ago

That's " Slippery as an Eel" O'Neal talking, so "arguably" is the best you can expect.

chootspa 6 years, 2 months ago

Religious freedom is being threatened? Says the man praying in front of the meeting of the government body? Yeah, buddy, I think it is being threatened, but not in the way you think it is.

deec 6 years, 2 months ago

When is the imam or voodoo priestess scheduled to appear?

Jimo 6 years, 2 months ago

Dear Heavenly Father,

We come before you today to ask that you extend grace and mercy toward your sometimes wayward servant Fr. Gordon for his blasphemous condemnation of your creation. Lord, we recognize and are appropriately chastised for his (and our) forgetfulness that you created mankind -- all of mankind -- in your image. Oh most merciful God, may the Holy Spirit continue to prick our conscience to always recall your Holy Word in which you proclaimed that if a man should cause hurt to a pregnant woman so that she should lose the fruit of her womb but that no other harm is done it is appropriate that he should only pay a fine for his assault and nothing more. Oh Creator of all that is seen and unseen, keep ever present in our minds that your only begotten son, sacrificed for our sins, yeah even the sins of those who so self-righteously impute sin to others, never -- no, not even once -- uttered a single word in defense of zygotes, fetuses, or the unborn, nor in condemnation of the God-given love you created in those of the same gender even from before the foundation of the world and we that see mirrored therein today. Finally, Almighty One, who has promised to never forsake us nor give us up -- never, never, never -- we ask that you speak to the hearts, not just of Fr. Gordon, but of all those lost sheep who forsake your gospel of love, and instead listen to the voice of the Evil One, demanding hatred and judgment on your own perfect creation, not, Oh Father of Lights, so that we might rejoice in our own superior grace but rather so that the repentance and submission of Fr. Gordon, or any of your lost sheep, to your perfect example -- yeah, demand! -- that we love one another be a living testimony to your unfathomable mercy. May, Lord of Hosts, the hardest of hearts dissolve in the reflection of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. All this we ask through your Son Jesus Christ. By whom, and with whom, and in whom, in the unity of the Holy Spirit all honor and glory be yours, Almighty Father, now and forever. AMEN.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 2 months ago

The very first Hindu prayer before Congress was disrupted by "Christian Right" (who are neither "Christian" nor "right") wingnuts and had to be removed by Capitol police. They believe in "freedom of religion", alright. But only if it's their religion.

Ragingbear 6 years, 2 months ago

There should be no prayer. Instead they should read the US Constitution.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 2 months ago

+1 They should read a clause per day with an explanation by a recognized Constitutional scholar. If they can't understand the Constitution, how can they legislate to it?

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 2 months ago

The IRS might want to investigate the tax free status of st. john vianney, as the good father gordon is clearly advocating political issues dear to one party.

Pastor_Bedtime 6 years, 2 months ago

A prayer is about as necessary to the function of the House as time spent looking at pics of each other's grandkids. Makes 'em feel all warm and fuzzy and like they're doing their part for the Jesus team, and isn't that more important than the Constitution anyway?

dabbindan 6 years, 2 months ago

precisely why the separation of church and state is so critical and needs to be enhanced.

true believers will cross the line dependably because their take on ultimate truth is the only right one: trampling on the rights of others "for their own good".

factstraight 6 years, 2 months ago

I was there this morning to witness this. I was shocked and the people around me were all looking around at each other saying "did he really just say that"?

LoneThinker 6 years, 2 months ago

There are several issues here by commentators that need addressing. The Founders had prayers since the Continental Congress and that is as constitutional as it gets. The prayer did not advocate any hatred toward any group or citizen. I agree with the teaching in the prayer BUT not appropriate for a public mixed setting. Church yes, because people are free to atttend or not and expect the prayers and sermon to be for that group.. The single reference in the Hebrew Bible to paying for an intentional killingof an unborn baby as an economic matter,is cutturall/ time-conditioned- a wife is listed after property in one of the twi listings of the Commandments which is how females were viewed- property .It is un-natural, as in against the Natural Law to kill, the Hebrew Bible condemns "murder" , it does sanction death for certain crimes, including fornication by the male and the woman involved.. Obviously killing an unborn child would be classed as murder. There is absolutely no ban, prohibition or penalty for same gender people caring for each other, loving each other as parents love their children, we love our siblings and best friends. but genital activity al union with them is against nature and the Hebrew and Christian Bibles- fornication, adultery and "man lying with man as woman" as the HS so delicately puts it- Paul of Tarsus is much more blunt. in the CS. The overall need I see from most of the posts is an invitation to return to school to learn facts, get a compass for moral values, sort out propaganda from actual TRUTH, a sense of how moral principles are built into us, and some had to be corrected- slavery for example was justified biblically in the 19th century USA from a mis-reading of one of Noah's sons .sin and made him ancestor of African people, Today, presuming there is a "right" to kill our own, and a "right" to re-define marriage instead of legalising same gender unions civilly but not pretend it is "marriage" and cry foul and discrimination if Big Bad Brother government or the Triple Nasty Synagogue, Church and Mosque say it is unnaturally wrong to have genital activity.. Do it anyway in conscience if that is your undeerstanding, but stop messing with the meaning of words. And then ask- if the Nasty Triplets above condemn murder, rape and theft as both against the Natural Law and their Sacred Books what is next- defend slavery, prejudice based on faith, religion or ethnic origin. Almost forgot- Ms Sibelius - also formerly of Kansas now Mandate-Csar of the HHS is working with POTUS to force the Triple Nasties , to pay for stuff against their consciences. There goes the First Amendment.. What is next- second amendment right to have an elephant gun in downtown Topeka My goodness, where does common sense end and Nut-ology takes over.? Father Gordon please pray in your room and privately in your church to help sort out this mess. Not publicly they may arrest you for Political Subversion of the Leftist Agenda. .

ProudlyAtheist 6 years, 2 months ago

"Stop messing with the meaning of the words"? What, like YOU just did? If homosexuality were "against nature", then why is it that EVERY SPECIES ON EARTH practices homosexuality? Oh, is it that they "choose" to do it? Or is that "god" made a mistake, being that he/she is so "almighty" and "omnipotent" and "perfect"? Why don't you take your own advice, go back to school and learn some FACTS, instead of regurjitating the nonsense you read in your fairytale book about your imaginary friend.

Billyslo87 6 years, 2 months ago

So let me get this straight. Liberals tell us that Contraception is not a political issue and when a priest, by the invitation of somebody else, says a prayer like this it is all of a sudden political? Can someone explain this to me? There is nothing in our Constitution that forbids praying in public nor in government office. In fact, to this day the Senate has an official pastor that is assigned to open each session with a prayer, that was established by George Washington in NY right after he was elected. You can not find the phrase separation of Church and state anywhere in the Constitution nor any of our founding documents. And here are some quotes from some names in US history that might let you know that this priest was justified in his prayer. "It is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand." ~ John Adams (The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States by Charles Admas publishes in 1854) "The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code." ~ John Q. Adams (Letters of John Quincy Adams, to His Son, on the Bible and Its Teachings published in 1850 by James M. Alden) "Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they who are decrying the Christian religion are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." ~ Charles Carroll (A letter from CC to James McHenry written on Nov. 4, 1800) "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." ~ Benjamin Franklin (from the Writings of Benjamin Franklin published in 1840) "The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of mankind." ~ Thomas Jefferson (from The Writings of Thomas Jefferson published in 1904 by the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association) I can go on and on with these quotes but if you disagree with this priest saying a prayer like that then maybe you should leave this country and go somewhere else.

ProudlyAtheist 6 years, 2 months ago

Well here's a few quotes for you that you conveniently "forgot" in your mindless ramble: "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3). That's right. An article in your constitution. You know, that document you religious retards conveniently tote out when convenient, and conveniently hide from when expedient. This provision was radical in its day-- giving equal citizenship to believers and non-believers alike. They wanted to ensure that no religion could make the claim of being the official, national religion, such as England had. Or how about:

"the United States was "not in any sense founded on the Christian religion" Article xI of the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli, written under the presidency of George Washington and signed by John Adams.

Don't like that one? Ok, how about this one:

"The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs." -- Thomas Jefferson letter to James Smith, December 8, 1822

or this one:

"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet the one is not three, and the three are not one: to divide mankind by a single letter into ["consubstantialists and like-substantialists"]. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests. Sweep away their gossamer fabrics of factitious religion, and they would catch no more flies. We should all then, like the quakers, live without an order of priests, moralise for ourselves, follow the oracle of conscience, and say nothing about what no man can understand, nor therefore believe; for I suppose belief to be the assent of the mind to an intelligible proposition." -- Jefferson's Letter to John Adams, August 22, 1813

How about this one:

"But while this syllabus is meant to place the character of Jesus in its true light, as no imposter himself, but a great reformer of the Hebrew code of religion, it is not to be understood that I am with him in all his doctrines. I am a materialist; he takes the side of spiritualism; he preaches the efficacy of repentance towards forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it." -- Thomas Jefferson letter to William Short, April 13, 1820; Definition of a Materialist

or this one:

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." -Jefferson "Notes on Virginia"

More coming on next reply, don't worry...

ProudlyAtheist 6 years, 2 months ago

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ProudlyAtheist 6 years, 2 months ago

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asixbury 6 years, 2 months ago

Thomas favorite. Why end now when you were doing so well?

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