Letters to the Editor

Race reaction

June 4, 2012

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To the editor:

After reading Scott Burkhart’s letter to the editor  (“Civil discourse,” May 30), I had to respond. Mr. Burkhart makes reference to race and race-baiting in his letter and makes the statement, “Would you reduce your argument to name-calling rather than trying to convince those listening that your ideas are superior through proper intellectual discourse?”

I’m sure Mr. Burkhart believes what he is saying, but many apparently must not agree with him. If you speak ill of President Obama, with no reference to his race or color, a great deal of those who are ardent supporters of his (incredulously, still) will rush to call you a racist. This seems to have been the greatest gift to some who support Obama in that they will whip out the word “racist” in many instances when someone denounces the policies of President Obama.

Civil discourse? Sure, the left calls for it, all right — now. Five or six years ago? Not so much, and this seems to be more “do as we say, not as we do” liberal behavior.

Comments

thuja 3 years, 1 month ago

What is the benefit of posting yet another rant from this repeatedly banned poster who is merely complaining about being stereotyped by using more stereotypes?

rtwngr 3 years, 1 month ago

It's called the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. When it is a letter that only you agree with, it is called the Soviet Politburo. You see, in the United States we believe that people can have differing points of view and these same people are allowed to express those views in public forums. I might point out that when you see Mr. Shewman's posts in the future, you have the right not to read them. See how this "rights" thing works?

SnakeFist 3 years, 1 month ago

The First Amendment applies to government action, not private action, so it is irrelevant to whether a letter to the editor should be posted (or whether a post can be removed). Clearly, like most conservatives, you don't understand how this "rights" thing works.

rtwngr 3 years, 1 month ago

I was pointing out that the author of the letter has a right to express himself. The LJW has a right to publish his letter. Both of these rights are protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, are they not?

rtwngr 3 years, 1 month ago

Gee, I don't know, let me think about that one. I wish I could ask Rosa Parks of Selma, Alabama that question. I wonder what she would say about society's rules. (I hit that one out of the park, didn't I?)

Alyosha 3 years, 1 month ago

Funny, you're the one who posted not long ago "It's high time the "Sandbox Socialists" shut the heck up."

In other words, you want other people to stop exercising their First Amendment solutions.

See how this "rights" thing works, rtwngr? You have to apply it to people you don't agree with, not just folks you agree with.

rtwngr 3 years, 1 month ago

There is a difference in suggesting that someone "shut the heck up" than expecting someone to shut them up. My preference was that they remain silent. I did not call out the newspaper for allowing them to express themselves. See the difference?

Alyosha 3 years, 1 month ago

Funny, rtwngr, you're the one who posted not long ago "It's high time the "Sandbox Socialists" shut the heck up."

In other words, you want other people to stop exercising their First Amendment rights and "shut the heck up."

See how this "rights" thing works, rtwngr? You have to apply it to people you don't agree with, not just folks you agree with, and not call for people to "shut the heck up."

SnakeFist 3 years, 1 month ago

If the arguments against Obama were rational, we liberals might respect them as mere differences of opinion. But ridiculous assertions, such as Obama was born in Kenya or is a Muslim, in spite of overwhelming contradictory evidence, are so irrational that they clearly stem from blind hatred, and race seems the most likely basis for that hatred.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 1 month ago

"If arguments against Obama were rational" - Frequently, arguments are made that are irrational. Like a poster just above, a "SnakeFist" who states that most conservatives don't understand how "rights" work.

Would that be an example of an irrational argument?

John Hamm 3 years, 1 month ago

Oh but to us the arguments are more than "rational." However the Uber-Liberals have no use for logic or common sense. To criticize him or his policies is to identify yourself as "racist" be that true or not.

pace 3 years, 1 month ago

SnakeFist makes excellent points. I have heard many conservatives decry the birther and racist remarks. unhappily what we are reading on this forum are people totally ignoring valid points and droning on as if those points were not valid.

Mike Ford 3 years, 1 month ago

someone must've earned good behavior to get out of siberia and do the usual do se do dance around what his ilk are the best at doing.....talking crazy and assailing those who call them out for it....classic hannity or o reilly shtick....other than that what do they have goign for them? nothing....

grammaddy 3 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

jafs 3 years, 1 month ago

What is the "good fight"?

Is it the fight for principles and a society that works, or just the fight against those with whom you may disagree?

I'd say that our political climate has become much too polarized, and way too many people demonize those with whom they disagree, and that this "fight" is destructive for us as a nation.

In it's place, I'd like to see honest discussion and debate about issues, without the polarization and demonizing - seems to me that's the only way we'll be able to solve our numerous problems.

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

The new first line of defense against racism is to claim that it is used "all the time," even when nothing racist has been said. In fact, that is rarely the case and often times the person making such a claim is the first person to even mention race in an argument. Yes, it has happened, but even though such a charge is rare it is a shame when it does. However, I have no doubt that some would prefer that racism just be ignored altogether, including this letter writer who is also a banned LJWorld on-line contributor. I only wish some of his remarks were still available on race. To think, this is the person who now sees himself as the Anointed One when it comes to speaking about racism is too funny.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 1 month ago

Is the Department of (selective)Justice investigating this letter?

BigAl 3 years, 1 month ago

Yes, because voter fraud is so dominate just like here in Kansas......

grammaddy 3 years, 1 month ago

Out of 8 millions votes in 2008-only 30 alleged cases of voter fraud nationally.Notice how rockchalk1977 lists all the states that voter suppression is happening."So the Democrats can cheat in November"....really?If it aint close, they can't cheat and there will be no need for another Supreme Court appointed President.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 1 month ago

Again the talking point "a little voter fraud never hurt anyone".

Orwell 3 years ago

But a lot of voter suppression is just fine, eh?

"Voter fraud" is a transparent excuse for distorting democracy, hence a rationalization for behavior that is anti-American by definition.

verity 3 years, 1 month ago

Making posts complaining will only encourage the publishing of letters like this.

Responding in the comments section to trolls only encourages them and encourages the newspaper to publish more controversial articles and columns.

Don't blame the LJW---they want to survive and make money in a market which is suffering both from the economy and changes in the media.

We have to blame ourselves for encouraging this behavior. The solution seems obvious.

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

Poor, poor White men. Always the victims in America, especially when it comes to voter intimidation. (rolling my eyes)

Did you know that not a single person complained about intimidation at the polling place you speak of? Not one. Your fear of this so-called new Black Panther group is hysterical. They have what, around five members? Too funny.

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

I say the attention given to what is truly a handful of people is far overblown among FoxNews viewers, especially when compared to the many members of skinhead and White supremacy organizations in this country. FoxNews has continued to go on and on with this isolated incident by a couple of people in one voting place (where not ONE person actually complained) because it sparks fear among their viewers, which is their bread and butter.

By the way, if this were just about voter intimidation that upsets you, I sure don't recall you, rockchalk, or Tom in any of his past lives here, discussing the issue of Minutemen attempting to intimidate hispanic voters at polling places in Arizona in 2006. Do recall this happening?

Of course, you don't see me going on about it either, because it is an isolated case of a couple of people. I certainly don't think it represents the vast, vast majority of Republican voters. I don't believe the Minutemen (one of which recently went on a killing rampage in AZ) are more than a few foolish individuals. They don't warrant the attention. Neither do the couple of people who call themselves the NBP. That is the point.

But if you watch FoxNews like it is a religion, you won't possibly understand.

grammaddy 3 years, 1 month ago

Wow. Another Black man found he had no evidence on which to charge anyone, so it must be a conspiracy between Eric Holder and Obama to let all those pesky Black folks run amuck right? This tells me more about the Author of this and his usual compadres than they realize.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 1 month ago

I expect some of the local kapos have already forwarded this example of thoughtcrime to the current regime. (1984 flag on myself)

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

I do know one thing -- most racists really hate it when you call them on their racism.

marleys 3 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

grammaddy 3 years, 1 month ago

And will go out of their way to have your posts removed. For commenting on something a banned user managed to get printed.

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

chuckle -- project much?

So, do you disagree with my statement, or are you only capable of personal attacks against someone you don't actually know?

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

I am right here. What makes you think I ever left? Do you always post when on vacation?

The bigger issue is, why do you care so much about me? What is the obsession?

Or is it that the issue at hand -- racism -- bothers you so much that you find it impossible to discuss in anything resembling a rational manner?

marleys 3 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

marleys 3 years, 1 month ago

What a record, I've made 3 comments and got 2 deleted, Am I not allowed to post about a certain person, even when they put their name out there?

grammaddy 3 years, 1 month ago

Me,too! Feels kind of funny having comments removed on an LTE written by a banned (and re-banned, and banned again)former poster.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 1 month ago

As I've said before, every little mud show needs a geek to draw in the rubes. Several of the usual LTE suspects fit that role exactly.

labmonkey 3 years, 1 month ago

Is it just me, or is there something bedouin (as RI would put it) about the girl in the Snorg T-Shirt ad?

tbaker 3 years, 1 month ago

I read in another blog post where ideology may cause people to forego logic in their arguments. Calling opponents of Mr. Obama racist is a very predictable thing, especially when his record is so short on actual achievement. You really leave his supporters with only 2 choices; agree that he has performed rather poorly during his term in office, or attack with accusations of racism simply because they have no other club left in the bag. Calling people who pose sound arguments against Mr. Obama racist is as good as admitting we have a president who is not doing a very good job.

jafs 3 years, 1 month ago

I'm greatly in favor of sound criticism of politicians.

But, we see a lot of name calling and derogatory remarks, little "funny" names, etc. and not much substantive criticism.

As far as your choices, the other one is that he inherited a mess, has done some things to get us going in the right direction, and has faced clear opposition from the R legislators intended to defeat him.

And, he's better than the R candidates, which is the only judgement call I have to make to decide for whom to vote.

Nobody's calling people who make sound arguments against his policies racist - in fact, those on the left often criticize him - he's not ideal, by any means.

tbaker 3 years, 1 month ago

"Nobody's calling people who make sound arguments against his policies racist..."

Really?

jafs 3 years, 1 month ago

I haven't seen it.

But, of course, sound arguments about policy are hard to come by these days, unfortunately.

tbaker 3 years, 1 month ago

Heres one where an editor of the NY Times accused the Speaker of the House of being racist towards Mr. Obama.

http://www.mrc.org/node/38759

jafs 3 years, 1 month ago

I read those links.

The accusation was made in regard to some specific examples of actions by those he accused, and the actions were not "sound arguments" about policy.

tbaker 3 years ago

You said you hadn't seen it. Now you have.

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

tbaker, I agree that it happens, but it is the exception, not the rule. It is rare when it happens, and when it does it should be dismissed outright, just as birthers and people who call Obama a Muslim should be dismissed.

tbaker 3 years ago

I didn't mean to suggest it is rampant, I simply wanted to point out it is predictable. Some people who want to defend the President will play the race card simply becuase it is there to play.

Mike Ford 3 years, 1 month ago

let's see....the Sapulpa Daily Herald refused to print Barack Obama's victory in their newspaper in November 2008. Sapulpa is fifteen minutes southwest of Tulsa and is on Route 66 and is on allotted Creek and Yuchi lands with many Creek and Yuchi tribal members in the area. I go through there to OKC for Thunder games. Don't admit publically that you don't like someone due to their skin tone....make up excuses hide behind the first amendment and attack those who see through the transparent actions of spineless people bent on a whisper campaign whether it's kenya, ayers, cherokee ancestry, or some other distracting rightwing nonsense that was originated by the late lee atwater to help a cia operative become president in 1988. When there is no real platform except deceive the dummies with religion, abortion, illegals, and guns, who cares if they elect dummies to cripple a central govenment and then blame the central government without mentioning the state's rights dummies hijacking and filibustering all possible solutions to bring that original failure....trickle down or voodoo economics as father bush called it in 1980. Nice to know we know your modus operandi....

Cant_have_it_both_ways 3 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

grammaddy 3 years, 1 month ago

Obama. Eric Holder, New Black Panther Party. What is it about Black folks that scares you so badly??

Mike Ford 3 years, 1 month ago

there is no bigotry in telling the truth....just sore losers who left educated, repsonsible, and respectible republicans behind when the kool aid was handed around in the early 1990's as every middle aged crank around me in Topeka at the time became a dittohead. talk to the fifty or so former kansas gop legislators who think brownback's tax plan will kill kansas. someone's own people thinks they're being hijacked by the riders on the crazy train. also you hate on me because you ain't me. time to go to work....leave the people on the basement time to chime in as a parent brings them down food to their room.

Mike Ford 3 years, 1 month ago

also....I get your comments removed because you actually say offensive things. getting me removed is like telling the teacher. no one likes tattle tales. also....learn to spell bigot both ways if you use it.....

grammaddy 3 years, 1 month ago

The worst racists are the ones who think they are entitled to hold onto their racism like they would their rifle or their bible. And deny being racist.

Bob Harvey 3 years, 1 month ago

This has been an interesing thread. Granted it has been difficult at times to follow with the many tangents that have taken it off the main topic, but interesting none the less.

So, from what I have been able to understand from the 80 or so posts is that half of us are racist and the other half aren't. Hmmm...interesting. Can anyone tell me which half is which?

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

Interesting take. I personally don't see many people calling others racist on this thread. Many, like myself, acknowledge that racism is part of American society and recognize that there are indeed racists out there, but not so much of people here actually calling others "racist." I suspect it is far less than half of us who would actually fit the term. A few would, but there aren't that many.

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