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Archive for Wednesday, July 25, 2012

Correct context

July 25, 2012

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To the editor:

On one hand, I agree a little with Mr. Simons (Saturday Column, July 21), that there are some in the public sector who are “gullible.” On the other hand, however, if certain opinion writers/editors would quit taking things out of context there might be more truth to the story that is being told. Even Republican opinion writer Charles Krauthammer got it right on Saturday and used his criticism of the president in the correct context while our Saturday Column writer did not.

You chose not to write, like Krauthammer did, that President Obama was referring to the roads and bridges and police and fire protection for businesses that are provided by taxpayer money when he said that entrepreneurs “did not do this (develop/sustain their business) on their own.” 

Maybe you have heard the quote “No man is an island” by John Donne? We all need to remember that Donne quote more in our lives. There have been several political ads already where President Obama’s words were taken out of context to score political points by the opposing party. People need the whole truth, not snippets of it.

Ethical journalism requires that a journalist use the correct context in which to quote someone, but I see very little of that in some journalists’ writings.

Comments

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 5 months ago

Actually, even Krauthammer chose to strip the quote of context in opening his column.

parrothead8 2 years, 5 months ago

I remember when SageonPage talked about being "a socialist" and admitted to "trying to re-write history" because he thought America was a "sorry philosophy."

beatrice 2 years, 5 months ago

I sure wish you oil company CEOs would stop posting here.

rtwngr 2 years, 5 months ago

I gotta admit that Lewis Black is pretty darned funny! I'm still voting for "anybody but Obama."

beatrice 2 years, 5 months ago

Okay, then might I recommend Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate. He is not Obama, and it won't mean a vote for Romney.

Cait McKnelly 2 years, 5 months ago

You know, writing something that only you can understand and get a kick out of is the written equivalent of "playing with yourself". And where there are a very select few, such as Thomas Pynchon and James Joyce, that it's fascinating to watch do that, like that other "self entertainment activity", watching anyone else do it is just gross.
Now go wash your hands.

Crazy_Larry 2 years, 5 months ago

Hey FHNC! You like talkin' 'bout the mary jane so much lately...Let's look at some of the smartest and most successful potheads in the world, shall we? You probably won't recognize very many of them...Steve Jobs, Carl Sagan, Francis Crick, Richard Feynman, Sergey Brin, Sir Richard Branson, Michael Phelps, Michael Bloomberg, Ted Turner, Montel Williams, Stephen King, Arnold Schwarzenegger...to name a few. Quite a few Presidents Of The United States Of America could have been in the "Choom Gang" too, i.e. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Zachary Taylor, Franklin Pierce, Abraham Lincoln, John F. Kennedy, Jimmy Carter, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama

I guess what I'm tryin' to say is, I see where you're comin' from! Spark a doob, brah!

racerx 2 years, 5 months ago

"Ethical journalism requires that a journalist use the correct context in which to quote someone, but I see very little of that in some journalists’ writings."

Dolph may be an astute businessman, but he's not a journalist. Owning a newspaper doesn't make you a journalist anymore than owning an NBA team makes you a basketball player.

Flap Doodle 2 years, 5 months ago

The Mope's trying to get away from his teleprompter crutch. You just never know what he's going to say next. Almost as fascinating as watching Biden.

beatrice 2 years, 5 months ago

I have no doubt you will be just as critical of Mitt Romney every time he uses a teleprompter, won't you. I mean, if you don't it will only make you look like nothing but a big fat hypocrite. You don't want to give the appearance of being a big fat hypocrite, now do you?

And who is "the Mope" you keep repeating yourself again and againandagain about? Certainly you can't mean OUR President of the United States of America Barack Obama.

Crazy_Larry 2 years, 5 months ago

Snap, just in case you didn't know it (i suspect you do), every politician uses a teleprompter at some point. So, why don't you find some other silly little thing to rag on?

"It does make some sense though" to use a teleprompter, Romney tells Hannity. "I do understand." He adds: "It keeps you from saying something you don't mean, you get the message out precisely the way you want to get the message out." Romney says he has used a TelePrompter "maybe five times" in the campaign. Romney in recent months has tended to use a teleprompter for most major speeches. "It's smart," Hannity agrees. "You're right. You don't want to make a mistake. I'll tell you, they're out to just eviscerate anybody who makes a mistake."

http://gawker.com/5901344/how-sean-hannity-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-teleprompters

The Bellamy salute during the American Pledge of Allegiance (1920s and 1930s).

The Bellamy salute during the American Pledge of Allegiance (1920s and 1930s). by Crazy_Larry

Fred Mertz 2 years, 5 months ago

I read and heard the entire speech and no he wasn't taken out of context. Obama was mocking business people for thinking their hard work made the successful.

Obama revealed his disdain for business people.

jafs 2 years, 5 months ago

Really fred?

You're usually pretty sensible.

He was pointing out that nobody succeeds on their own, that's all. In fact, he even commented that individual initiative is part of the package, so he wasn't mocking it at all.

Think of it as a counter to the myth promoted by some on the right, of the "self made" man who accomplishes everything by himself, and has no need for anybody else, or society/government, etc.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 5 months ago

For those who buy into the "John Wayne" theory of success, any intimation that it takes more than testosterone-driven self-determination to achieve success must be met with full-on denial, even if it includes completely mis/disinterpreting statements such as Obama's.

Fred Mertz 2 years, 5 months ago

jafs

I read and listened to the entire speech and his tone was very condescending especially when he starts into the you think you're so smart and you think you worked so hard part.

It was an attack on business people. He was saying their belief that their smarts and their hard work made them successful was wrong. He told them they were not special and they owe their success to others and he said it in a smug mocking manner.

We all have different filters so my perception is probably different than yours but that doesn't mean I am not sensible.

jafs 2 years, 5 months ago

Do you have a link to the speech that I can listen to? I've read what's been posted, but haven't heard the tone of it yet.

But, even from just reading it, he comments that individual initiative is part of success.

And, those on the right have in fact taken one sentence out of context, and misinterpreted it to make some political points.

Fred Mertz 2 years, 5 months ago

Working off a phone so hard for me. Go to YouTube lots there for you to see.

chootspa 2 years, 5 months ago

No. He's mocking people who solely credit their success to having been smart or worked hard. Because, as he points out, lots of people are smart or work hard and are not business successes. I suppose he really would be mocking the people Romney trots out in his ad. You know, the ones who claim they built the business by themselves and overlook all the government grants and contracts they used in the process.

Fred Mertz 2 years, 5 months ago

chootspa, so we agree. He is mocking a group of people. Frankly, I think it is beneath a president to mock business people or any people for that matter.

Kathy Getto 2 years, 5 months ago

Your filter is unfounded and insane, fueled by your inability or lack of desire to interact with folks who are different. Pity.

chootspa 2 years, 5 months ago

Yes. Just like Romney mocked Olympic athletes for thinking their hard work made them successful. Pshaw! Running really fast? "You Olympians, however, know you didn't get here solely on your own power."

Crazy_Larry 2 years, 5 months ago

Full context of the comment in question. As usual, the cons are playing games with the dumb ones among us. Lack of education is what is tearing this country down. Bigoted dummies need to zip it.

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."" -- Asimov

Let's make this country great once again and dump the ones who are hamstringing us--the Republicrats and Democans. Vote for liberty...Vote for Gary Johnson!

fan4kufootball 2 years, 5 months ago

If it were not for the business entrepreneurs then there would be no need for all of the roads, etc. If it were not for the business entrepreneurs then there would be no tax dollars available to build the roads, etc. And on and on and on.........

jafs 2 years, 5 months ago

Ok - I went to YouTube and listened to the whole thing, which is still only about 2 1/2 minutes of a presumably longer speech.

I pretty much agreed with everything he said - it seems like common sense to me.

He did have a somewhat funny expression on his fact when he mentioned people thinking the reason they succeeded was because they were smart, but my sense is he was mocking the idea more than the people.

Anybody who has a high level of financial success and/or wealth in America has that due to a variety of factors, some of which are in their control and others not.

As he commented, we have a lot of smart, hard working people in this country, and they don't all succeed in achieving high levels of wealth and financial success.

I wonder what it is about this that's so threatening to people?

beatrice 2 years, 5 months ago

If you agree, then obviously you must hate business people.

Or ... you have arrived at the very obvious fact that people are grasping at anything anyone says as a means to discredit our president. And Democrats will do the same with Romney, but in those cases it just won't be spread as widely because the Democrats don't have FoxNews to spread their distortions.

chootspa 2 years, 5 months ago

Honestly, they shouldn't do that to Romney. He has far more mockable things that come honestly flying out of his mouth when taken in context. Well, "honestly flying out of his mouth" might be a stretch. Honesty and Mitt don't seem to have a cozy relationship these days.

Liberty275 2 years, 5 months ago

"I wonder what it is about this that's so threatening to people?" Maybe because they build their life around the idea that they can become an independent person if they work hard enough? That's what I was taught, and that's what I'll believe until I die. Probably penniless.

I get up every workday because of what you could accurately call a fantasy. I know I'll always be poor, do you think I should just start sleeping in?

We are threatened because someday you might convince us it isn't worth it and we give up our desire to be independent and sleep in.

We don't want your library, or your transportation. We want our own. We end up paying for both.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 5 months ago

So when are you moving to your very own deserted island, so you can be truly independent?

jafs 2 years, 5 months ago

I'm having trouble figuring out what you're saying here.

If you're building your life around the idea that you can get rich, and you know it's not going to happen, I might suggest building it around a different, more achievable idea.

And, you might try building your sense of self-worth, esteem, and value around something other than being wealthy as well - there's no reason you (and many others) can't feel good about themselves and their lives even if they're not rich.

I know our society is strongly centered around material success, but we also have choices we can make that don't buy into that, right?

Fred Mertz 2 years, 5 months ago

jafs it is not threatening, but it is insulting. He could have made the point with a very different tone. Instead, he decided to slam a group of people who contribute to society.

He could have said something on the order of, We need to celebrate the hard work, the willingness to risk their investment and their business savvy of all those who succeed in business and contribute to this great country. We also must celebrate those who worked hard, but did not succeed. And, we must not lose sight that regardless of the hard work, the risk taken and the business savvy, part of the success is due to contributions of other Americans. Our educators, our scientist, both public and private and those men and women who built our infrastructure. We are Americans and we are a team and as long as we remember that America will draw upon its collective strength and lead the world.

Maybe I'm biased, but I like my speech better and it only took me one minute to write. But of course, I didnt' write it by myself....

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 5 months ago

"Instead, he decided to slam a group of people who contribute to society."

Stating an obvious fact is not a "slam." Unless you're heavy into denial, which you appear to be.

"And, we must not lose sight that regardless of the hard work, the risk taken and the business savvy, part of the success is due to contributions of other Americans."

And he never said otherwise.

"Our educators, our scientist, both public and private and those men and women who built our infrastructure. We are Americans and we are a team and as long as we remember that America will draw upon its collective strength and lead the world. "

So now you're saying pretty much what Obama said. Make up your mind-- do you agree with him, or not?

Fred Mertz 2 years, 5 months ago

Geez Bozo, you're usually a little smarter. Read my post again. What did I say? Tone matters. His was insulting. Mine was positive. His was negative, mine is positive.

And I don't tell someone they didn't build thier business as he does. Instead, I laud the business person while giving others credit too. This is called uniting a nation, not dividing it in the manner he did.

Can you really say you can't tell the different in what I wrote and what he said?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 5 months ago

"And I don't tell someone they didn't build thier business as he does. "

He didn't say that, no matter how often you want to assert it.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 5 months ago

"What did I say? Tone matters. His was insulting."

It wasn't "insulting." It was said out of exasperation over the idiotic notion that everyone who ever accomplishes anything did it all by their lonesome, so let's just abolish government entirely so the wealthy deities in our midst can get on with their miracles without being bothered by the hoi polloi and their tiresome rules and regulations.

Fred Mertz 2 years, 5 months ago

As I said, he could have delivered the message, but it a very positive way. I did it in one minute. Instead, he decided to use a mocking tone and diminish their accomplishments. This is not what the president should do. Unite, not divide.

Crazy_Larry 2 years, 5 months ago

"Maybe I'm biased" No doubt about it. You were able to write your speech because of a long line of help from others...starting with your parents and teachers, the tax payers who paid for your schools and the roads you traveled to get there with, and finally the people who developed the internet which you've been using to spout off nonsense with. Is it really that hard of a concept to grasp? It is if you're a bigot. But you are a fabulous bigot!

http://i.imgur.com/lFnRA.gif

jafs 2 years, 5 months ago

So, you agree with what he said, which is very similar to your version, but just not with a facial expression or tone of voice at some points in the speech.

I'd suggest you focus more on the content then, of all candidates, and select the one that most closely matches your views, rather than focusing on tone.

Fred Mertz 2 years, 5 months ago

Well Ag, some people have to work.

Let's parse out what he said.

"Somebody invested in roads and bridges" There is a period so end of sentence and thought. He then said, 'If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen." He clearly said, if you have got a business you didn't build that. And then went on to say, someone else made the business happen. This is false, the business person did build the business.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 5 months ago

"He clearly said, if you have got a business you didn't build that. "

It wasn't well phrased, but he was very clearly saying that they didn't build the roads and bridges.

Try hearing what he really said rather than what you want him to have said.

Fred Mertz 2 years, 5 months ago

Bozo - what do you mean it wasn't well phrased. He said, it, it is right there. I parsed it out. It is clear what he said. You just want to give him a pass and try to back track on what he said. No one took it out of context. It is right there in black and white.

Pretend all you want, but we have his words, both in audio and in text and there is no getting around what he said.

Crazy_Larry 2 years, 5 months ago

Obviously, you live in an alternate reality and refuse to believe anything other than what you've been programmed to believe....robot. Hey look, it's Limbannity programming you!

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/200000-1/Gun-fight-now-dance.gif

jafs 2 years, 5 months ago

It' s obvious to me that he meant they didn't build the infrastructure.

When we talk, each sentence isn't some sort of completely separate and disconnected piece of the conversation.

The "that" in the second sentence refers to the infrastructure in the first one.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 5 months ago

Your interpretation is based on pure idiocy. (referring to fred's)

Crazy_Larry 2 years, 5 months ago

Maybe he was talking about the roads and bridges...the business person didn't build those. That seems to match the context of the President's previous words. Or, maybe he has turret's syndrome. Yeah, that's it. [insert derogatory comment here]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzjos9jGIq1qdiwbvo1_500.gif

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