Lawrence’s school district and its teachers union negotiated for about two and a half hours with a mediator before coming to an impasse Wednesday as neither side flinched on their salary proposals for the 2012-13 school year.
Teachers and district officials prepare to begin salary negotiations Wednesday with the assistance of a mediator.
The district and its teachers remained $500 apart on their proposed salary increases. Teachers are paid based on a pay schedule that provides more money both for teachers with more education and for teachers with more years of service, up to a maximum amount.
The district’s negotiating team stuck to its offer to increase each level on the schedule by $1,000, and the union stayed behind its offer that would have increased each level by $1,500.
Kyle Hayden, assistant superintendent for business and operations, said the district received $1.4 million in new money from the state and committed all that money to its current offer for teacher raises, while also contributing $1 million to hire additional staff.
“They feel like they’ve given all they can give,” Hayden said.
David Reber, a Free State High School science teacher, is the lead negotiator for the teachers. He said Lawrence’s teacher salaries lagged behind other districts and pointed out that a one-time payment of $1,000 made to teachers last year would be going away this year.
“Their last offer would essentially be that nobody takes a pay cut,” Reber said.
The teachers and the district will now begin a fact-finding process that could last well into the school year, though the two sides could still reach an agreement at any time.
An independent fact-finder would conduct a hearing and issue a nonbinding recommendation, and then the parties would reopen negotiations. If the school year begins without an agreement, teachers would work under the previous year’s salaries.
Comments
oneeye_wilbur 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Mr Reiber. . Those who pay you are lagging behind. The parents of children are lagging behind. What is It you do not understand. Not everyone makes what the teachers make and the benefits they get. Get real and quit begging. Be glad you have a job. But you and many of the teachers and admin staff. Have come to believe they are special and exempt from giving up a raise and unwilling to suffer a bit. some examples you as educators are setting!
KSManimal 10 months, 2 weeks ago
It is you who don't understand, oneeye. Of course the taxpayers (a group, btw, that includes teachers) are lagging behind. However, this issue does not affect how much tax anyone will pay.
USD 497 has already maxed its local option budget, and the remaining taxes which fund public schools are levied by the state and, likewise, have already been determined.
The disagreement here is not about how much tax to collect. Rather, it is about what to spend that money on. The teachers want that money spent to recruit and retain the best possible teaching force - a.k.a., competitive salary. The district wants to stash that money away (to the tune of about $20 million or more) and sit on it.
As a taxpayer, I'd like my education dollars to be spent educating kids. If you'd rather the school district behave like a bank; then you've elected the right BOE, because that's what they're doing.
chootspa 10 months, 1 week ago
I think the BOE is justifiably worried that their budget will be severely trimmed in 2014 and they'll have to cut pay or lay everyone off, but the teachers here have a really good point that they're underpaid compared to surrounding districts.
bballwizard 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Hey Oneeye Its called negotiating. Mr Reiber is doing his job. The salaries in the Lawrence School District are already lagging behind other districts.
ockhamsrazor 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Lawrence taxpayers contribute their tax dollars to educate children. Instead, the district socks money away in accounts and underpays teachers. The result is we are losing talented people to surrounding communities and unable to recruit new talent. A teacher I know got a $6,000 raise simply by moving to Shawnee Heights. This has been the situation for years and it's getting worse. Look at the school district budget you will see what the district values. The money is there. It's just not going to the classroom.
KRichards 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Even if teachers were only babysitters and never taught children anything, they are underpaid. I know of absolutely no one that would accept the equivalent pay of approximately 1$ per child per hour to babysit let alone teach. This pay doesn't even factor in time spent planning, grading, setting up the classroom, cleaning up, etc.
KRichards 10 months, 2 weeks ago
$38K plus benefits approximated at 30% is $49.4k per year. 175 days at 8 hours per day (really more like 10 hours per day) is 1400 hours. I friend of mine had 28 kids in her class this past year, although I do not know the average in Lawrence. This calculation with benefits comes to $1.26 per hour. This does not include all of the extra time teachers put in after school, before school, weekends, and summer.
Teachers do not get vacation that I know of, but they do get some sick time.
johnwoods 10 months, 2 weeks ago
So by your calculations, annually teachers work 33% fewer hours than a person working 40 hours per week. So they make the equivalent of $57,000 annually, not including benefits. Add your benefit figure of $11,400 and the total would be $68,000. That doesn't seem that out of whack. And KRichards said the figures doesn't factor in time spent planning, grading, setting up classroom, etc. But the students don't stay at school until 5pm, so how doesn't it figure in some of that prep time?
Geez, I'm not against teachers being paid well, but if they get any increase over 2.5%, it is way too much in this economy.
chootspa 10 months, 1 week ago
He was counting contractual hours of time required in the school building, not prep work and after hour grading, which anyone close to a good teacher would tell you eats up a lot more than the contract hours. In Finland they actually work fewer instructional hours but have even higher relative salary. Guess who gets higher test scores?
IllTeachYou 10 months, 2 weeks ago
To add to ksrichard's reply, teachers in Lawrence are on contract for 186 days, which changes the math a bit. Makes it $0.91 per kid/per hour. My classes are closer to 25, so I make about $1.09 per kid/per hour.
KRichards 10 months, 1 week ago
Lets see your calculation then. Even if it jumps to $2 per hour it is still ridiculously underpaid.
No one forces anyone to do anything, but this still does not preclude anyone from asking for a raise.
Liberty275 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Stop negotiating now. Give the teachers a contract and 2 weeks to sign it. After all the teachers that want to keep their jobs reply, place ads in neighboring cities and right-to-work states and find replacements for those that prefer to not work for the rate offered by the district.
Why is the school district even bothering to talk to the union? We shouldn't give them the time of day.
bballwizard 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Great idea Liberty275. Are you from Cuba or China?
Liberty275 10 months, 1 week ago
I'm from wherever a person has the dignity and intelligence to negotiate their own salary. I'm also from the places where "I pay your salary, and I won't speak with anyone representing a union".
For the record, I'm also from the place where they are philosophically repulsed by unions because they devalue individualism.
As for Cuba or China, much closer to Cuba. I've been about 60 miles from there on vacation. I never got anywhere close to China, but I did spend a day in an evaluation just a few miles from what was East Germany.
Where are you from?
Renaissance 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Want to see what happens when, for a prolonged period of time you don't competitively hire teachers? Go visit USD 501, Topeka, Kansas. David Reber is correct - this is a matter of using already existing capital (no new taxes) to create competitive hiring practices. Having been involved with the Topeka school system previously, I've LITERALLY seen instances where a teaching position was filled with the ONE PERSON who applied. Believe me, you do NOT want that for your children.
Eride 10 months, 2 weeks ago
There are hundreds (if not thousands) of new graduates trying to find teaching jobs in Eastern Kansas. I am pretty sure there are significantly more than one application per job...
KSManimal 10 months, 1 week ago
The trouble isn't a lack of enough new education graduates - never has been. The trouble is keeping teachers in the profession once they're there. Half of all new teachers leave the profession entirely within five years. That is why the number of job openings often equals or exceeds the number of applicants. Here's a good synopsis:
http://www.examiner.com/article/teachers-overpaid-and-under-worked-part-one-benefits-to-bad-stuff-ratio
Liberty275 10 months, 1 week ago
"Half of all new teachers leave the profession entirely within five years."
They must have found something they like better.
From your article:
"How much unpleasantness a person will tolerate depends on the trade-off:"
Not for everyone. I enjoy my profession and would only change if I found one I was good at and that I liked better. And I'd still continue my present profession.
It must be a horrid life working simply for money.
chootspa 10 months, 1 week ago
See, the funny thing is that you can get a higher paying job in a different profession with a college degree - any college degree for many jobs. My job, for instance, wanted a college degree, but it didn't have to be in anything specific. It's not like there's this influx of new teachers that have no optons other than teaching.
Topple 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Let's "reapportion" some of this money we are flushing down the toilet on the library, library parking garage, empT, proposed police station w/ 40+ extra police officers, proposed overnight on-call bus pickups, train station consultants, proposed train station, etc, etc....
KSManimal 10 months, 2 weeks ago
That isn't possible under current state laws regarding public school finance.
Renaissance 10 months, 2 weeks ago
no "reapportion" plan is necessary. Before anyone is allowed to comment further on this article, I need you to repeat after me: "The money for this pay increase already exists and is already in the hands of USD 497". After repeating and comprehending that statement the following posts don't apply:
oh, and please before insulting/complimenting David REBER, take a minute to make sure you read enough of the article to actually know how to spell his name. (one eye wilbur, bballwizard).
Topple 10 months, 2 weeks ago
His restaurant is pretty subpar, but so is the rest of the BBQ in Lawrence. Gotta go 45 minutes east to find some respectable BBQ.
Biggs served me a fried cockroach in my fries the last time I was there, which was pretty disturbing. Still the best BBQ in Larrytown...which says something I suppose.
Liberty275 10 months, 1 week ago
Cool. As long as each teacher negotiates their own salary, we will pay them the going rate as their degree and experience dictates.
Taxes, shmaxes. Take what you need but I don't want to see one dime of money taken from me negotiated for by any union (I know it happens, I just don't want to see the vulgarity). I defend the right of unions to exist, to buy advertisements to forward political agendas (not public unions though, as it is a severe conflict of interest), they can have picnics, love ins, campouts, whatever. OK. But I won't buy union products when possible because I don't want to pay people to give up their intellectual freedom and I'm violating my personal morals by helping a person give up part of their individualism.
It's disgusting that a person with the intellect to teach (and that is obvious by their degree... usually) would consider surrendering even more control of their lives given how much the government already takes by force. I want teachers that practice and teach self-reliance, not dependence on others.
luvmyjhawktattoo 10 months, 2 weeks ago
What always ceases to amaze me is how the teachers are always saying they are underpaid. They work 10 months out of the year and are earning what it takes most people to make in 12 months. If they're lagging behind the salaries of other districts, move to another district. And also, without support staff such as paras, aides, custodians, food service workers, bookkeepers, secretaries... teachers couldn't fulfill their job obligations. Why is it always about teachers getting/deserving more money? What about the support staff?
e_michelle_02 10 months, 2 weeks ago
I thought part of the negotiations were for support staff. Either they got a much deserved raise last year or are in negotiations for it this year.
luvmyjhawktattoo 10 months, 1 week ago
To my knowledge, classified staff members do not have a union in Lawrence. Therefore, they cannot negotiate terms.
chootspa 10 months, 1 week ago
That's a fixable problem.
chootspa 10 months, 1 week ago
Obviously it's the best job evah. Why don't you apply?
KSManimal 10 months, 1 week ago
You need to read this:
http://www.examiner.com/article/teachers-overpaid-and-under-worked-part-one-benefits-to-bad-stuff-ratio
KRichards 10 months, 2 weeks ago
People seem to care a lot of about teacher salaries but no one ever mentions city workers salaries. I think there are currently over 30 employees this city making over $100,000 not including benefits. 22 of these are police or fire department employees.
queequeg 10 months, 1 week ago
Duh, maybe it's because this is an article on teacher's salaries and not city worker salaries.
Cant_have_it_both_ways 10 months, 2 weeks ago
If the teachers want to bolt to another district just for money, then we don't need that teacher anyway.
Everytime I lost a job, I got a better one. Let them go and take their union with them. When they signed on the line they knew exactly what they were doing, now that they have the job, they want to complain about it. Imagine how much better the education of our children would be if they spent as much time teaching as they do bitching about their compensation package.
Fire them all in the fall.
KRichards 10 months, 2 weeks ago
You call it complaining, most people call it asking for a raise.
Agnostick 10 months, 1 week ago
You obviously missed the latest RNC memo.
Private sector -- "asking for a raise"
Public sector -- "socialist complaining"
Wall Street -- Gaussian Copula
Congress -- Earmark
Topple 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Heaven forbid Teachers' compensation increase at a rate even remotely close to the inflation rate...
I know I want the lowest bidder teaching my children!
Cant_have_it_both_ways 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Yea...many, not in the public sector, don't have jobs or have not gotten a raise in 5 years, let alone get the summers off. Many in the private sector work 70 hour weeks for 40 hours pay.
They asked to be teachers, they get what is offered. If they don't like it then they can change career fields.
JayhawksandHerd 10 months, 1 week ago
Considering that estimates of attrition remain fairly high even in a down economy, I suspect many teachers are doing just that.
Renaissance 10 months, 2 weeks ago
"fire them all in the fall". That's brilliant planning for the future; which city commissioner are you?
TisSoSweet 10 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm pretty sure I can summarize any comments that you will see on an article about teacher salary negotiations.
Eride 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Does the union not understand the concept of a one-time payment?
No wonder our children are receiving such shoddy educations from these people.
paulveer 10 months, 2 weeks ago
The best education also involves parental and family involvement. If your children are receiving a shoddy education, the first place to look is in a mirror. For what education my family gets, I am very grateful for the many dedicated and hard-working teachers, who struggle on in the face of this kind of treatment.
IllTeachYou 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Um...the union negotiated and agreed to the one time payment last year. There is enough money in next year's budget, and apparently in the out years, that teachers are asking for the same money to be made permanent.
If your boss offered you $1000 bonus instead of a $1000 raise, would you see a difference? Wouldn't you rather have the raise if the money is there to fund it? Would you have the nerve to ask for it, assuming you had worked hard, done your job, and met and exceeded the standards of practice set forth by whomever oversees/supervises your job/field? So why does the public insist on vilifying teachers for doing precisely this?
Eride 10 months, 1 week ago
Because last year it was EXPLICITLY stated that it would be a one time payment. That point was frequently reiterated during that period of time.
It frustrates me, as a taxpayer, to see the union negotiating off a position that clearly has no basis in reality.
The union needs to awaken to the fact that the taxpayers (the people who pay their salaries) have generally had nothing but wage stagnation for the last half-decade. The union needs to realize that their methods of negotiation rub-off on the public as unrealistic and greedy.
paulveer 10 months, 2 weeks ago
Thank you, teachers.
Enlightenment 10 months, 2 weeks ago
How about a user system. Have the parents with children pay a supplementary fee.
chootspa 10 months, 1 week ago
They already do.
Barclay 10 months, 1 week ago
"I think there are currently over 30 employees this city making over $100,000 not including benefits. 22 of these are police or fire department employees." Seriously? Wow. They are the smart ones- they should be teaching our kids.
It's not a popular subject with teacher's unions, but in Florida teacher's salaries have jumped because they are measuring student outcomes and rewarding successful teachers with incentive based pay scales.
luvmyjhawktattoo 10 months, 1 week ago
I don't necessarily agree with rewarding successful teachers because sometimes, no matter how good the teacher, a student doesn't have the learning capacity or they don't care to learn. I do, however, think that raises should not be the same across the board. You may have a teacher that has been there for years that is just putting in time until retirement...they are just getting by on what they have to do (we know they exist), and then you have those that strive everyday to teach kids in a fun, interesting way. Should the lazy ones get the same pay increase as the one who goes the extra mile? Absolutely not. Longevity is rewarded in schools. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're the best teachers.
chootspa 10 months, 1 week ago
The problem is that there isn't a reliable, objective system to evaluate teachers for merit pay.
chootspa 10 months, 1 week ago
It's not a popular subject with high stakes test boosters, but it's been shown that incentive pay doesn't actually boost performance. They do, however, provide great incentive for cheating.
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2011/07/18/new-study-finds-performance-pay-had-no-positive-effects-on-student-achievement-at-any-grade-level/
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2010/09/21/another-blow-for-merit-pay-long-awaited-tennessee-study-finds-no-impact-on-student-achievement/
http://www.good.is/post/cheating-on-standardized-tests-suspected-in-florida/
You were saying?
tbaker 10 months, 1 week ago
City employees making over $100K? Wow...I had no idea.
You get what you pay for. Rewarding the good one's is a great idea. Giving parents vouchers and letting them decide where their child goes to school is another great idea.
chootspa 10 months, 1 week ago
Yes. Let's reward schools for marketing to parents. That's what you're incentivizing with a voucher system, not quality education.
PS - parents already decide where their children go to school. I thought you tea types weren't in favor of wealth redistribution systems.
Soapbox 10 months, 1 week ago
Please NO pay increases at Deerfield, they pass the buck, shuffle kids from grade to grade they shouldn't, make false promises, are dishonest and in general are leaderless. Not all teachers are doing this poorly, but enough that they should be fired. These individuals’ performances in private industry would get them not only fired but pushed out of the profession. We are their bosses, yet they see parents as interfering with the lifetime job they consider themselves to have.
Please NO pay increases at @#@!!@, they pass the buck, shuffle kids from grade to grade they shouldn't, make false promises, are dishonest and in general are leaderless. Not all teachers are doing this poorly, but enough that they should be fired. These individuals’ performances in private industry would get them not only fired but pushed out of the profession. We are their bosses, yet they see parents as interfering with the lifetime job they consider themselves to have. by Soapbox
KSManimal 10 months, 1 week ago
Actually, you aren't their bosses; the building principal's are their bosses.
Try your "I pay the taxes that fund your salary, therefore I'm your boss" logic next time you get stopped by the police. Let us know how it works for you.
Soapbox 10 months, 1 week ago
Actually very funny considering my job. I really am one of the bosses.
tbaker 10 months, 1 week ago
Everytime this story makes its way onto the pages of the LJW, I ask the same simple question that every other working person in the world has to answer when they ask for a raise:
What have the teachers done to deserve one?
Have they brought any statistics to the negotiating table that demonstrate they have increased the graduation rate? Improved standardized test scores? Anything?
The only justification I have read in the many stories on this topic is their salaries "lag behind" those of other teachers. Imagine going into your boss asking for a raise on the soul basis there are other people in your field making more money. What do you imagine him or her would say to that?
chootspa 10 months, 1 week ago
1) Worked at their job for less pay than the same workers at the same education level.
2) Yes. There would be a 0 percent graduation rate without them. I'd say they raised it quite a bit.
3) My boss said, "Here's your raise." - well, to be more specific, my employer offered us all a raise upon finding out that the prevailing wage was higher with other employers, and I didn't have to ask as an individual. Then again, these folks aren't asking as individuals either. It's called collective bargaining for a reason.
nascar 10 months, 1 week ago
tbaker Head over to the USD 497 website and take a look. You might want to look at the graphs that represent the increase in student assessment scores over the past five years among other bits of information. Perhaps the teachers don't post this information because it is common knowledge. It's not that teachers and support staff are not doing good work!
tbaker 10 months, 1 week ago
Then how come the multiple stories we read make no mention of this? One must "merit" a raise, so demonstrating said merit should be the headline and the core of their aurgument.
Renaissance 10 months, 1 week ago
I always thought kids were bratty and hard to deal with. Then I met the parents.
queequeg 10 months, 1 week ago
You 'are' the "BEST" example here of 'Someone' who didn't get a 'good' education....
(although I "put" it on you, not 'YOUR' teachers.]
Dog 10 months, 1 week ago
Teachers work hard and for the most part care deeply about all of the students that they work with. As in any profession there are a wide variety of abilities and those who supervise teachers diligently work to provide professional development that supports the growth of educators. Lawrence is lucky because we have a school system that is better than most. It isn't the best, but if you listen carefully to information that is coming from the ESDC you can hear that they are focused on improving our school system for all. As a community it is time for us to support our teachers, classified staff and district administrators. Give them a raise!
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