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Archive for Saturday, January 14, 2012

Conservatives?

January 14, 2012

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To the editor:

Newt Gingrich asserts himself as “the conservative alternative” to Mitt Romney and savior of society. Meanwhile, he supports or opposes the individual mandate on health insurance as he perceives the advantage of each position at a given time. Rick Santorum also asserts himself as a savior of conservative ideals having voted for the U.S. Patriot Act, which was good at the time. Likewise Jon Huntsman, Rick Perry, Herman Cain and Michele Bachmann all have claimed to be the one who can pull the sword from the stone and make sure Big Government “works for the people.” Did I forget Ron Paul? Why not, if you listen to the mainstream media (Fox included) he doesn’t: (choose your option) a) exist, or b) have a snowball’s chance ...

The last conservative president was Calvin Coolidge. Reagan had some conservative tendencies as did JFK, but they were progressives in the TR mode.

So what was Coolidge’s foreign policy achievement? He told the Secretary of War to pull out the troops occupying Mexico. These were troops sent in by President Wilson in various locations beginning in 1913. During his tenure, American industry reached previously unparalleled highs. His one mistake was naming Herbert Hoover as Commerce secretary, which resulted in regulated communications.

So when listening to the 2012 conservatives, think about what they are saying about the amount of interference in people’s lives, unsustainable growth of government, interference in the affairs of other countries, and outright war. And don’t bother listening to Dr. Paul; choose a) or b) for your reason.

Comments

Benjamin Roberts 3 years, 1 month ago

c) Ron Paul would be okay if it were not for the nuts that support him.

Armstrong 3 years, 1 month ago

d) anything but what's in office now.

Armstrong 3 years, 1 month ago

What, 3 years of failure isn't enough for you yet ?

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

I'll bet you still have your "Anyone but Hillary" t-shirt from 2007, don't you?

Armstrong 3 years, 1 month ago

Avoid the subject when losing a debate. Nice job Bea

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

Um... what debate? What subject? You hate Obama. You really, really hate Obama. That is what every single post of yours amounts to. You hate Obama. What are you offering up as a subject to debate other than the degree to which you hate Obama? Or shall we discuss your incorrect numbers on the debt again?

So I'm guessing you really do still have your "Anyone but Hillary" t-shirt, don't you? I was right, wasn't I?

"Anyone but Obama" is going to work about as well as the GOP's "Anyone but Romney" campaign has been working. Perry, Cain, Gingrich, Bachmann, all took turns at the top just because they aren't Romney. But as soon as a little more scrutiny was given, down they fell. "Not Obama" isn't going to win the election, no matter how much you really, really, really hate him.

Armstrong 3 years, 1 month ago

Is it logical to stick with a President with his track record ? No, you want him because he is a Dem. At least that's your version of logic

Gotalife 3 years, 1 month ago

Hmm, there is a nice long list of terrific accomplishments on the President's record. And yes, yes, I know you will take them and give credit somewhere else to someone else in some crazed and confused approach at justification for your hatred.

Gotalife 3 years, 1 month ago

Facts are straight...You are terribly misguided. Bin Laden (check), other top terrorist plots stopped (check), ending a senseless war (check), helping keep our kids protected with health insurance until 26 (check), and on and on and on and on. Now let's all wait for the stupid rant declaring all these things as being credited somewhere else..LOL.

kochmoney 3 years, 1 month ago

So you're voting for Hosni Mubarak this year? He's not in office right now.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 1 month ago

How many republicans running represent the fiscal conservative/fiscal responsible republican party? Better yet where did the fiscal conservative/fiscal responsible republican party go?

Most are radicals like Sam Brownback who subscribe to ALEC. NOT republicans! 1. http://alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

  1. http://www.justice.org/cps/rde//justice/hs.xsl/15044.htm

  2. http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/15/alec_exposed_state_legislative_bills_drafted

  3. http://www.democracynow.org/2011/8/5/secretive_corporate_legislative_group_alec_holds

bearded_gnome 3 years, 1 month ago

Merrilly! rotfl.

he wouldn't know "fiscal conservative" if it ran him over, backed up and ran him over again!

he is a godfather to the locl occupy nuts. nuf said.

Jimo 3 years, 1 month ago

I have a sneaking suspicion that Haehl doesn't know the first thing about conservatism.

Fred Mertz 3 years, 1 month ago

The problem is that there is no real definition of a conservative. Many people have varying ideas but consider themselves to be conservative.

Some people might consider me to be conservative, but then others who proclaim themselves to be conservative are appalled at some of my views.

No person and no political candidate is perfect. You simply go with the one who most closely matches your views on the issues.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 1 month ago

"No person and no political candidate is perfect. You simply go with the one who most closely matches your views on the issues." Mr Mertz, thast is the most sane and believable thing I have seen here. This procilcvity of the right wing crazies has been, of course, to scream "Liberal!!!" at anyone who does not agree with them The term "Moderate" has popped up now as a profanity, I think this comes from Limbaugh.

But hardly anyone falls into the imaginary pigion hole labels that some candidates like to scream and proliferate. Most poeple are warm on some issues and cool on others and they do not always fall into the extremist mold that is so prominately displayed by the talking head media.

But you will see the vicious attack ads and fraudulant claims from the super" PACS" this fall. Get your mute button ready!!

Darrell Lea 3 years, 1 month ago

It's pretty easy to find a "real definition of a conservative" - try the dictionary

|kənˈsərvətiv; -vəˌtiv| -

adjective - holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.

noun - a person who is averse to change and holds to traditional values and attitudes, typically in relation to politics. • ( Conservative) a supporter or member of the Conservative Party of Great Britain or a similar party in another country.

Fred Mertz 3 years, 1 month ago

Well Guitarzan let's look at the definition you quoted and see if it fits Brownback.

His budget proposal changes a great deal of established and traditional tax credits and deduction so by the definition he quoted he is not a conservative is he?

And, if liberal is the opposite of conservative then by your definition they do not hold traditional attitudes or values? Really? Do we have to go back to day 1 of this country and believe in only those attitudes and values if we are to be deemed by your definition a conservative?

I actually looked at the definition before I posted and it does not adequately define a conservative as it is subjective in terms of traditions and values.

Further, does the definition require that you believe in every single tradition or value (whatever they may be) or if you agree with only 90 percent are you a conservative? What about 80%? Get my drift?

Darrell Lea 3 years, 1 month ago

Here's another word I like, which some of us see as a synonym for Conservative - Luddite |ˈlədˌīt| - noun a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, esp. in cotton and woolen mills, that they believed was threatening their jobs (1811–16). • a person opposed to increased industrialization or new technology : a small-minded Luddite resisting progress. ORIGIN perhaps named after Ned Lud, a participant in the destruction of machinery

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

Barry Goldwater sure wouldn't recognize the GOP of today.

gccs14r 3 years, 1 month ago

You have no idea. The political landscape has shifted so far to the right that Pat Buchanan is now a moderate Republican. There is no Left in this country any more. Obama would have been considered a moderate Republican 40 years ago. What we need is a new Left party.

yourworstnightmare 3 years, 1 month ago

What do teapublicans like best about Romney?

Massachusetts Rombama care?

Mormonism?

Pro choice legislation as governor?

coloradoan 3 years, 1 month ago

So, were you sleeping during 2008? After oil hit $147 per barrel in mid-2008, and after the boom in imports by China ebbed as they completed their construction for the Olympics, stocks started crashing and all of the associated risks that had been taken in the heat of the boom were exposed, just as in the post-Enron period. This was on Bush's watch that the crash started. My Roth and others' 401Ks took a huge hit as a result.

gccs14r 3 years, 1 month ago

My 401(k) is going up, my home value is steady, my doc wants single payer, the gas tax should go up, I got a raise last year, and the company I work for is hiring. I'll take more of all of the above, please.

fancy80 3 years, 1 month ago

Trust me, your doc doesn't want single payer. Ever wonder why docs can only allow a certain number of Medicare/Medicaid patients? Because they need to offset their losses with patients with Private insurance. Your 401k is still down from what it was and so is the value of your house. You may be okay with that but most people aren't.

coloradoan 3 years, 1 month ago

Again, the market crash started in mid 2008, before Obama was elected, much less inaugurated. And then to make it worse, just as it was recovering, it was tanked by the Republicans in August 2011, with their phony budget crisis.

gccs14r 3 years, 1 month ago

She does, because she thinks healthcare is a right. Also, she wouldn't need as many staff to deal with all the insurance companies, and the rules about what is and is not covered would be well defined and consistent from one patient to the next.

gccs14r 3 years, 1 month ago

Exactly. One of the things I really like about my doc is that she will give me alternatives and discuss the pros and cons of each, then let me decide how to proceed. We'll spend money if we need to, but it's definitely not the first choice every time. It's nice to have a working partnership and to be able to make informed decisions about my health.

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

Herman Cain and Michelle Bachmann? When was this letter written? Two candidates who claim that God told them to run for office, and they are already the GOP detritus of yesterday.

I'm guessing that God must have a great sense of humor.

Obama is so going to win re-election. No point in being in a constant state of upset about it. Besides, if he doesn't, Romney will. How would that be dramatically different?

kochmoney 3 years, 1 month ago

Sadly, he's the most electable of the batch. As an independent voter, I'd be open to looking at an alternative to Obama, but I'm not going to vote for some unctuous, out of touch flip-flopper like Romney.

verity 3 years, 1 month ago

The meaning of the terms conservative and liberal both keep moving. Generally the views of the liberals of one generation become conservative/traditional in later generations. It wasn't that long ago that a woman who wore pants or cut her hair was considered a hussy (for lack of a better word).

Probably none of us would fit neatly into any definition anyway. I want to know what a person's or a politician's policies are, not how s/he is labeled.

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

He was elected, not anointed. We have gone over this already. In this country, people vote and, in most cases when the Supreme Court doesn't get involved, the one with the most votes wins. That is what happened with Obama. People voted and he won. We really shouldn't have to go over this every day.

beatrice 3 years, 1 month ago

I'm glad he won over his Republican contender, and he will probably beat Romney. That doesn't elevate him to the hero worship you like to fantasize about.

In fact, I am quite sure you think about Obama a LOT more than I ever could. Without him, you wouldn't have anything to live for, because you do live for your hate. Sad, as always.

Abdu Omar 3 years, 1 month ago

I don't think Obama has been a great president, but you have to admit that everything he has tried has been voted down by the Republican congress which in turn doesn't come up with ideas of their own. This is what bothers me. If you don't like the song I am singing, then offer up another one. Somewhere we will please you. You being the American people. Obama has tried to get legislation passed that may help the people get on strong footing and start a rebound. But the Repubs want nothing to do with Obama success. He MUST be a one termer. Wait a minute, what about "we the people"?

Richard Heckler 3 years, 1 month ago

Being conservative does not translate into fiscal conservative. It could mean a borrow and big spending narrow minded individual such that the Bush family of politicians represent such that Brownback spent many years supporting without question.

Then again conservative thinkers could represent facism:

The Brownback irresponsible government has big bucks behind them. Wal-Mart family money and Koch brothers are going not only after democrats but some republicans as well. Those republicans who do not believe in the Brownback dictator machine.

Not only that this republican party since 1980 has added a serious touch of facism to their portfolio that which forcibly suppress opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism. Turning all our tax dollars over to corporate america = facism in my definition.

Fascism promotes political violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality. It views violence as a fact of life that is a necessary means to achieve human progress.

Facists are quite conservative thinkers.

BTW my fiscal conservative republican father in law left the NOT fiscal conservative republican party because of their reckless large spending habits and their foreign policy of war. This was earth shattering after 60 years with the party. He does not particularly care for their anti women's rights policy as well.

Eileen Jones 3 years, 1 month ago

These GOP wannabes are all full of promises. I'd like to see any one of them get anything at all accomplished with a Congress that refuses to legislate.

It's Congress that needs to be swapped out, for others who want to do the job they were elected and are paid to do which is help this country solve its problems - not put party over country.

Romney excoriated Huntsman for serving as an ambassador under Obama. Huntsman replied that is exactly the attitude that is responsible for the gridlock in Washington. The right-wing audience erupted in applause. I found myself applauding too, with new respect for Huntsman, and a realization that Romney is just a politician who will put country last.

jafs 3 years, 1 month ago

Looks like Huntsman is dropping out of the race.

jonas_opines 3 years, 1 month ago

Ha, I love reading comments by those who claim to belong to the "Party of Personal Responsibility" that then try to examine why it was that they failed in 2008 at securing the presidency, and whine about how the majority of Americans did not "have their heads screwed on tight" and blame "the liberal media" for their failings. It's never the fault of their leaders, or their positions, or their rhetoric.

It's never the fault of their choices, strategies and decisions, it's always due to somebody else.

2004 was the Democrat's election to lose, and they lost it. They ran on the platform of "anybody but the president", they had a ship full of fools jump at the chance, and in the end they settled on a pure politician, of uninspiring speech or ideas, who trumpeted whatever position was currently convenient over the course of his political career. They failed.

Why does that sound so familiar?

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