Archive for Friday, February 24, 2012

Proposal would put chapel in the Capitol

February 24, 2012

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— When legislators return next week they will consider a proposal to set aside space in the Statehouse for an all-faiths chapel.

House Majority Leader Arlen Siegfreid, R-Olathe, has proposed a place “reserved for prayer and meditation in the state Capitol building.”

Siegfreid’s House Bill 2694 says that belief in God, prayer and meditation have played a significant part in the history of the United States and Kansas.

A hearing on his bill is scheduled Wednesday and Thursday before the House Federal and State Affairs Committee.

Asked about the proposal Friday, several legislators said it could raise some legal issues.

“A lot of us pray here, constantly,” said Senate Republican Leader Jay Scott Emler, R-Lindsborg. But he said legislators would need to get a legal opinion on whether they could put a chapel in the Capitol.

House Democratic Leader Paul Davis of Lawrence said he didn’t think putting a chapel in the Statehouse was necessary. He noted that there are several large churches across the street from the Capitol.

Senate Democratic Leader Anthony Hensley of Topeka said that Gov. George Docking, who was governor from 1957 to 1961, vetoed putting a chapel in the Statehouse because he suspected legislators would hide their whiskey in it.

Comments

somebodynew 3 years, 5 months ago

"Senate Democratic Leader Anthony Hensley of Topeka said that Gov. George Docking, who was governor from 1957-61, vetoed putting a chapel in the Statehouse because he suspected legislators would hide their whiskey in it."

That and probably a whole lot more based on some of the decisions these people make somedays.

verity 3 years, 5 months ago

Looky, looky over here and don't pay attention to the real problems Kansas has.

You can pray/meditate wherever you freaking please. If you have to have a chapel in the Statehouse in order to pray, you have a big problem. What is wrong with you people?

Not to speak of the legal ramifications. I've said it before and I will keep saying it: Any time you don't keep church and state separate, both church and state suffer. Look at history---any history. What do you think led to (godless) communism in the Soviet Union? Look at the century's long rule by the church/state and the abuses. Look at the Roman Catholic Church in Europe and what that led to.

verity 3 years, 5 months ago

Damn, you had to go and do that. I can never refuse pasta.

frankfussman 3 years, 5 months ago

I'll run the Rastafarian chapel, make some good smoke for our devilish lawmakers.

deec 3 years, 5 months ago

Maybe celebrate the Rastafarian sacrament right before the Pastafarian sacrament...:)

scribe 3 years, 5 months ago

Good grief. Not a good idea and where will the money for construction come from?

booklover2 3 years, 5 months ago

How about separation of church & state?

Mike1949 3 years, 5 months ago

My thoughts exactly. I would like to add, I thought the state was hurting for money? Who is going to pay for this unconstitutional addition? The odds are real good that it will be struck down in the courts.

Oh, that is right, the republicans are trying to take over the court so that only they can change the laws to suite them instead of the American history of the lady holding the balance in their hand. The republicans doesn't want fairness and right and wrong. Right is only a republican power. They want total dictatorship type of control over the people. If they can't have total power of the people, then they want to change the law until they do have a dictatorship!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

I guess you don't think legislators have the right to pray and meditate? No one is asserting that a State Church should be established!

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

They have the right/ability to do that all day long - they don't need a special chapel at the state capitol to do it.

If they need a separate space, there are a number of churches in the immediate vicinity.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

I guess I would argue that the power of a legislator's prayer may outweigh their power to make the world perfect through legislation. Sometimes private decision making is more important that public lawmaking.

Jean Robart 3 years, 5 months ago

where is separation of church mandated? Not in the Constitution.

hujiko 3 years, 5 months ago

Not that you will listen to what I have to say, but it's clearly written in the first stinking line of the Constitution.

Republicans can't read I guess.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

That guarantee is that we all have religious freedom...the freedom to pray...legislators should be encouraged to pray!

blindrabbit 3 years, 5 months ago

Hopefully, they will install a prayer tower for the Oral Roberts set, a minaret for the Islamic Faith, a Buddihst monastery, a Jewish Temple, a ban on the cattle industry for the Hindi Faith, and a free thinking space for the agnostics and atheists.

George_Braziller 3 years, 5 months ago

Oh yeah, great idea. Put a chapel in the Capitol building and guess who will be the first in line to insist on holding some sort of twisted prayer group in it -- the Fred Phelps cult.

question4u 3 years, 5 months ago

"House Majority Leader Arlen Siegfreid, R-Olathe, has proposed a place 'reserved for prayer and meditation in the state Capitol building.'"

That's a great idea. They can stock the chapel with Bibles so that members of the House can actually read them. Here's a little passage that's bound to make some representatives squirm: "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."

Sorry guys, but if you take a peek at the Bible, you'll see that Jesus doesn't actually like hypocrisy, greed, or bigotry. And then there's that camel through the eye of a needle parable that somehow you're going to have to refute.

kochmoney 3 years, 5 months ago

I was going to suggest they install closets, seeing as that's where the Bible suggests prayer should take place. I don't recall any mention of stadiums in Texas.

JayhawkFan1985 3 years, 5 months ago

Since this wasnt part of the capitol renovation plans and since they are already way over budget, how is this a good idea? There are at least a half dozen churches within 2 or 3 blocks of the capitol building. These are a bunch of lazy bastards if they can't walk that far for their prayers. Some faiths don't allow their members to pray with people who are not members of that faith, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is but one example. Scheduling times for separate prayer sessions may be a problem.

They don't really want a place to pray; this will just stir up the religious fanatics in the state who don't believe in separation of church and state. Will this chapel be open to atheists for want to meet to discuss the lies of intelligent design? My only real point is this is a bad idea.

verity 3 years, 5 months ago

"They don't really want a place to pray; this will just stir up the religious fanatics in the state who don't believe in separation of church and state."

Pretty much.

Ron Holzwarth 3 years, 5 months ago

Why don't they just call it a Meditation Room?

cowboy 3 years, 5 months ago

Good , we can have a daily pray away the stupid services.

verity 3 years, 5 months ago

Will that work as well as praying away the gay has?

Kansass 3 years, 5 months ago

No! No! No! Seperation of church and state! I don't care if they say it's for all faiths. It's WRONG!!!!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

why is it wrong? I believe Thomas Jefferson sponsored bill to allow worship services at the capitol. What part of the constitution do you believe this violates? Legislators have a constitutional right to worship and pray as they see fit--read the constitution--we all have freedom of religion not freedom from religion.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

Building a chapel at the state capitol is really pushing the line there - it's a rather small step from that to establishing a state religion.

But, that's ok with you, since it's what you want - although their version of it may not match yours, which is one of the problems with that.

Corey Williams 3 years, 5 months ago

Then you can pay for it. What happened to cutting the budget? What happened to fiscal responsibility? Why do they need a chapel to pray in? What's wrong with the office they already have? Why are your posts all misspelled and ignorant?

bad_dog 3 years, 5 months ago

No one is preventing the legislators from worshipping/praying-they just don't need a seperate room to do so. They each have office space and/or nearby churches-use those. "Freedom of religion" also includes the right to abstain from it as well as not having it imposed upon you.

I believe it was in Mississippi a few years ago where their Supreme Court building had stones with the 10 Commandments inscribed upon them removed from their grounds after being found unconstitutional. If so, what makes you believe there is a constitutional right to have a chapel in the capitol building? In these economic times, no less?

Only_place_to_live_in_KS 3 years, 5 months ago

“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.” - Thomas Jefferson

Kirk Larson 3 years, 5 months ago

I say no. It will just be a place for legislators to flaunt their religiosity. They will make a show of their piety to influence their more slow-minded constituents.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

You don't know that--you just are making assumptions--there is a great deal of positives about our legislators praying to God before they pass some of these bills! Maybe if we had more prayer and less legislation we might be more free!

kochmoney 3 years, 5 months ago

They already pray to Mammon a lot before making decisions. I'm not sure they need the temple moved any closer.

hujiko 3 years, 5 months ago

Classic fundamentalist christian idealism - if everybody believed in the same god, everything would be righto perfecto!

Sorry, America is the land of dissenting opinions - if you don't like it, you're welcome to disagree.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

but we all have the right to practice our faith!

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

What kind of Christians are these? They can pray anywhere they want. Why do they need a chapel? It's the economy stupid. The world is not going to end in December of this year. Let's try moving forward to the future. Let's start taking care of the Earth god gave us to care for. Prayer isn't going to get you to heaven. God is going to be hacked off when he finds out what you did to the less fortunate and to the environment.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

Prayer and moral values are a positive for the future! We need legislators who bow the knee to God and not merely themselves and mankind!

deec 3 years, 5 months ago

It is entirely unnecessary to believe in one particular brand of "god" in order to have morals and values.

overthemoon 3 years, 5 months ago

Bull. From what I can tell, and history illustrates, people who 'bow to God' usually end up doing immoral and personally motivated stuff thinking that 'God told them to'.

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

Then let them pay for it, not me. And why a chapel? If you're a Christian you can pray anywhere. Do you have to have a priest or a preacher telling you what to pray and how?

Joe Hyde 3 years, 5 months ago

Wouldn't it be less of a drain on the state's treasury if, instead of building this proposed chapel, our more religious-minded legislators would simply drop to a knee and "Tebow" when they are overtaken by the desire for ostentatious prayer?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

you are missing the point! We are allowed as a free people to recognize God the source of all freedom.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

You seem to be the one missing the point here.

We don't have to build a chapel at the capitol with taxpayer money in order for anybody to "recognize God".

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

but nothing says we cannot build a chapel--no one will be forced to pray--no one religion will be established. Ben Franklin I think would have supported this!

Richard Heckler 3 years, 5 months ago

A chapel is necessary to pray? How so? This is more bogus christian nonsense and a waste of tax dollars. Republicans are the most wasteful spenders of tax dollars.

Brownback was definitely in on this reckless spending:

In the end big debt and super duper bailouts were the results which does not seem to bother Republicans, as long as they are in power.

In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion:

  • ENTITLEMENT - Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.

  • ENTITLEMENT - Another 30% of the national debt had been created by the tax cuts for the wealthy under Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush.

• ENTITLEMENT - Fully 81% of the national debt was created by just these three Republican Presidents. http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2010/0111orr.html

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

Republican Governor Brownback has balanced the state budget which he inherited from the Democrats with less that 1000.00 dollars in the bank. He is doing a great job setting priorities for Kansas. Spending a small amount on a prayer chapel which money could probably be raised privately is a small amount to pay to get our legislators on their knees recognizing that freedom and liberty are a gift from almighty God!

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

All states are required by law to have balanced budgets, so balancing the budget is not a spectacular achievement.

And, I don't want any of my tax dollars paying for this chapel, ok? You seem to think that we all have the right to withhold our financial support if we don't approve of the uses of it.

Also, having a chapel will not obligate anyone to use it without force, so to "get our legislators on their knees,..." will require some use of that - I presume you're ok with that, given your numerous posts on religion.

Of course, there's an obvious conflict between force and freedom, which you claim is the goal of religion - how can one become free by being forced by another to do something?

Flap Doodle 3 years, 5 months ago

Nice job of dragging your favorite dead horses onto this thread, merrill.

texburgh 3 years, 5 months ago

This is the same group that whines and gripes every time the renovation bill climbs. And most of that climbing is due to them adding more conveniences like a big underground garage.

As everyone else has said here, this is about a post card line for the election - "He hates God, he voted against a chapel in the capitol!" - and false piety - "I can get a picture of me praying in the capitol chapel! They will know I love God and vote for me!"

verity 3 years, 5 months ago

You've never answered my question about what this Party of Atheists is. I would like to join.

People aren't attacking religion, they are attacking (1) this assault on the separation of church and state and (2) the hypocrisy of these legislators who feel the need to pray in public.

Go back to sleep.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 5 months ago

You are attacking religion--because construction of a chapel would not violate the separation of church and state and you also do not know that all prayer at the chapel would be an act of hypocrisy--perhaps some of it would be a recognition of God--the author of freedom!

Kirk Larson 3 years, 5 months ago

There are plenty of atheists among republicans. They play up religiosity to get votes.

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

Most of the born agains I've ever met have only read what a preacher tells them to, and the preacher tells them what they want them to understand. That's what the Bible study classes in these radical churches are all about. The "leader" picks out what they read, then tells them how they should "interpret" it. Don't ask them to read the Bible by themselves. It might blow their minds.

deec 3 years, 5 months ago

Born again can be used as either a noun or adjective. Hence, you could be saying you are a person who has been reborn as an Ameican, or you are both a "born again" Christian and an American. However, the socially understood meaning is related to a certain type of Christian. "Born-Again...Part of speech : adjective . Definition : relating to or denoting a person who has converted to a personal faith in Christ (with reference to John 3:3): . Example : a born-again Christian . Part of speech : noun . Definition : a born-again Christian . ( chiefly North American ) born-again, converted, reborn (adj) " http://www.definition-of.net/born-again Based on your postings, one can also infer that you are a conservative Christian, since you appear to share many viewpoints consistent with fundamentalist Christianity.

kochmoney 3 years, 5 months ago

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

blindrabbit 3 years, 5 months ago

Kansanjayhawk and BornAgainAmerica: See you folks got together for a Kool-Aid party prior to the big game! What is your flavor today, bitter lemon or sour grape! I'd suggest you go to the aspirin/contraception controversy and tick off your female constituents. "God bless us all, each and every one" C. Dickens

yourworstnightmare 3 years, 5 months ago

Nice to see the Kansas legislature dealing with the real problems Kansas faces.

Know god, no peace.

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

Or he'll blame Obama. You forgot that part.

Corey Williams 3 years, 5 months ago

Ha ha ha ha ha! Just goes to show that conservatives are not small government. Where will the money come from? Dear god, please save us from your followers. Yet another roflmao Keep it up, a Santorum nomination can't be too far behind.

Grump 3 years, 5 months ago

I predict that the "all-faiths" chapel will have a cross and picture or statue of Jesus in it.

Gareth Skarka 3 years, 5 months ago

Excellent work, guys! I predict this will create THOUSANDS of jobs for Kansas!

Enlightenment 3 years, 5 months ago

First and foremost, our Governor and all the other elected officials need to stop this religious campaign. Although many KS residents are spiritual and monotheistic, there are many residents that are atheist or do not ascribe to any particular religion. Just like folks that are members of the mainstream religious cults find it offensive if their religion is attacked, atheist and non-practicing individuals find it offensive when religion takes center stage and we as citizens have to tolerate the proselytizing about god and how those that believe in god are divinely guided.

A structure, or in this case, a room in a building does not make a spiritual person.

Secondly, the elected officials need to stop wasting time with issues that have nothing to do with government functions.

Folks, please do not fall for these tactics of smoke screening elected officials inability to perform in their position or cover up shady dealings.

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

This is a symbol of Hinduism? Are you confusing that with Islam? Get an education. Islam has more in common with Christianity than Hinduism.

akuna 3 years, 5 months ago

Where are they going to put the Temple and Mosque?

globehead 3 years, 5 months ago

I've never before believed in cheating on taxes, regardless of how they were spent. Perhaps it's time to change what I believe.

George_Braziller 3 years, 5 months ago

If he wants a place to pray and meditate in the Capitol building then fine. Any time he feels the need to do so I encourage him to retreat to the sanctuary of his vehicle in the Capitol parking garage and do just that.

"House Majority Leader Arlen Siegfreid, R-Olathe, has proposed a place “reserved for prayer and meditation in the state Capitol building."

deec 3 years, 5 months ago

The use of god to distract the citizens and further the corporate agenda has a long history in the U.S. http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/for-god-so-loved-the-1-percent/

Kirk Larson 3 years, 5 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

hujiko 3 years, 5 months ago

Ohh ohh! Are we playing "Throw Blanket Stereotypes Around On The Internet?"

That's my favorite game, can I join in? Since you went first I'll go next.

How about those christians? They preach love and tolerance, yet all of them hate anyone not like themselves.

What's up with that?

camper 3 years, 5 months ago

What almost everyone else on this thread said.

jonas_opines 3 years, 5 months ago

Hey guys, I have this great idea for a rather benign, but fiscally irresponsible project for election year, that's just pointless enough and without tangible harm or benefit to lead to knee-jerk reactions by a lot of people in support or against it, providing us with ammunition to claim that there's a war on Religion currently being conducted.

Wow, that sounds excellent. Fire up the base, it's an election year.

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