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Archive for Friday, February 10, 2012

Kansas Senate leader rejects bill to allow guns on college campuses

February 10, 2012

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The Kansas Senate leader said Friday he had no interest in a bill that would allow concealed carry of weapons on college campuses.

“I think it’s a bad idea,” said Senate President Steve Morris, R-Hugoton. He said combining concentrations of young people and guns doesn’t make sense.

House Democratic Leader Paul Davis of Lawrence, whose district includes Kansas University, said, “I think that we need to let the Regents institutions police those issues themselves. They know what the security concerns are, better than the 165 legislators.”

While KU and other Regents schools oppose the proposal, Davis said he has heard more from community colleges wanting to make sure the bill doesn’t become law.

This week, House Bill 2353 was approved by the House Federal and State Affairs Committee and is headed to the full House for consideration.

The measure, by Rep. Forrest Knox, R-Altoona, states that people who are licensed to carry a concealed gun would be allowed to bring a weapon into a state or city facility unless the building had adequate security measures, such as electronic screening equipment and guards, to ensure that no weapons could be brought in.

Representatives of colleges, cities and counties and other groups have lobbied against the legislation, saying it would be cost prohibitive to have security systems at all entrances.That means concealed carry would have to be allowed in their facilities, they said.

Two years ago, a similar bill by Knox was approved by the House but it got bogged down in the Senate.

Comments

Herecomesthewaterweasel 2 years, 2 months ago

What happens when the gunmen murders the person/s with the CC license?

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Hedge 2 years, 2 months ago

LJW reports there were only 590 "major" crimes in Lawrence in 2011. And the Lawrence police department said there were only 40 reported rapes last year. Yep. There is absolutely no reason to even think about silly matters like self defense.

There was sure a lot of DUI's though. Now there's a 2000 lb lethal weapon that you are far more likely to die from than any CCW permit holder.

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lawslady 2 years, 2 months ago

http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2011_12/measures/documents/supp_note_hb2353_01_0000.pdf According to the fiscal note from the Division of the Budget, the League of Kansas Municipalities said passage of HB 2353 could cost local units of government between $1.5 million and $3.0 million statewide. This estimate is based on an average walk-through electronic scanner costing between $2,500 to $5,000, plus freight and installation, if 627 cities chose to purchase only one unit each. It is not known if all 627 cities would choose this option, choose to install more than one device, or choose a hand-held wand detector. Some cities might already have either or both of these devices, or would choose not to use detectors for controlling concealed carry in public buildings. In addition, there would be ongoing annual expenditures to staff the detectors and to maintain the equipment. There was nothing reported about the counties in the fiscal note.

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lawslady 2 years, 2 months ago

BTW, I like guns and have been a good shot since I was a child. But this bill is not a good idea, imho.

But before making up your minds, you should all go read the bill on this for yourselves - http://kslegislature.org/li/b2011_12/measures/documents/hb2353_01_0000.pdf NOTE it does not just cover campuses. It requires that all public buildings allow concealed weapons inside if they don't have enough security.

Any public building that does not have security at all doors will be required to let people inside who have a concealed carry permit. Think that one through for awhile. Think of all the public buildings around, and how much money (tax dollars) it will take to post an armed guard or security device at each entrance/exit. Hospital waiting rooms. And prison waiting rooms. And mental wards. And child care facilities, etc. Security guards/security screening devices - required. Or guns inside.

Either the people who SELL security systems (or own security companies) are behind this bill, or Kansas is a test site for some real extreme gun rights agenda (maybe introducing gun laws leading to mandated open carry by everyone?).

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lawslady 2 years, 2 months ago

They'd better slow up and think this one thru better.

A solution in search of a problem? Violent crimes on university campuses accounted for less than 1% of the violent crimes in Kansas during 2010. (Federal Bureau of Investigation). The rate of violent crimes per 100,000 in Kansas in 2010 was 369.1. The rate of violent crimes per 100,000 on Kansas college campuses in 2010 was 10.7.

Negative impact on Kansas economy? Kansas public universities hold memberships in three athletic conferences, the Mid-America Intercollegiate Athletics Conference (MIAA), the Big 12, and the Missouri Valley Conference. Athletic conference officials may require extensive security measures to ensure the safety of fans, athletes, officials, and staff. Due to the security risks and additional screenings required, Kansas venues would likely be disqualified for tournaments and other athletic events.

More than just adult students and classrooms involved? Most campuses are home to early Childhood Centers, There are Medical Centers with patients of all ages in several campus locations; The Kansas Academy of Math and Science (KAMS) - high school students residing and attending classes at Fort Hays State University; Stadiums, Performance Centers, Museums, Arenas, and Field Houses for athletic and cultural events all involved; Laboratories and work spaces with chemicals and equipment where a gun discharge, even if accidental, could cause serious harm or reactions.

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ShePrecedes 2 years, 2 months ago

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ShePrecedes 2 years, 2 months ago

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overplayedhistory 2 years, 2 months ago

Ok maybe the simulated masturbation was going to far. I'm sorry LJW. Did you have to delete the unhinged evidence of the point I was trying to make? If someone wants to suggest that my life is not worth saving then let other readers to see It, time we quit pretending certain types of character have no relation to the political opinions they hold.

Once again I am sorry I should not suggest there is a relation between vigilante gun fantasies and masturbation.

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Hedge 2 years, 2 months ago

We can bandy this about forever. I'll never convince you it's good just like you will never convince me its bad. But the basic fact is that at least for now it is legal for me to carry a firearm and I choose to do so. The fact that you do not does not bother me in the least. I carry for my own personal reasons. I won't blame the police for not being there when I may need them the most. They can't be everywhere all the time. I understand that. So I choose to take some of that responsibility on myself. You will probably never know who around you carries and who doesn't. Try not to let that get to you. It will be all right.

If everyone is so against it and thinks it is so bad why do all but two states have some form of legal concealed carry now? And come on now. the NRA isn't that strong. See you around!

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overplayedhistory 2 years, 2 months ago

So far I have read here that: leaving the house packing is no different than wearing a seat belt.

That people who don't pack have less faith in others than people who do.

That because nothing has happened in100 semesters of conceal and carry that means it is an effective deterrent to massacres.

That those who carry are more level headed (because realistic level headed people feel the need to pack were ever they go, even the dinner theater).

"All a concealed handgun license holder needs to know is how to use his or her concealed handgun to stop an immediate threat of death or serious bodily harm, and that type of training CAN be accomplished in a few hours."(yeah a few hours thats all)

People who don't carry do so because they are afraid, and people who do so out of brave preparedness.

Because I carried tonight and nothing happened my points are solid.

Yep, nothing that does not stand up to scrutiny here. Unless of course you are a biased liberal, that is the only way, because this logic is air tight.

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FalseHopeNoChange 2 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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overplayedhistory 2 years, 2 months ago

There is only one reason these fantasies of thwarting the thug by putting a cap in his dome (I am sure in the fantasy the thug is white) is represented by our gun laws. Due to an institution that so often draws right wing gun lover scorn "Hollywood".

But go on play with your guns under your pants in public, I will not feel safer nor will I feel more in danger. Unless you have special forces or police training I just think you are silly and not that in touch with any serious analysis of real data, other wise known as reality. Please bring the cold hard steel representing your childhood fantasies that are covering up latent homosexuality to all our public spaces. Leave no pew, desk or liquor bar unturned, unless there is a sign, oh screw the sign they will thank me if Mexican fruit pickers hold up the place.

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graylanternlizard 2 years, 2 months ago

I'm sure the gun carrying criminal are very happy.

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Fred Whitehead Jr. 2 years, 2 months ago

Recent news reports from Kansas City detailed two girls playing with a gun and one was shot and seriously injured. Parents, anywhere? Guns out of reach?? hmmmmm

The real problem is that there is no way to fix "stupid".

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voevoda 2 years, 2 months ago

Responsible gun owners would not be a problem. Nor members of a "well-regulated militia," as specified in the Second Amendment. But the rules for who would be entitled to concealed carry are much too lenient to filter out people who are too unstable, too excitable, or too careless. Until we have stricter regulations about who in general is entitled to carry a weapon, we need strict regulations about who can carry them on college campuses.

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KansasKansan 2 years, 2 months ago

When you find a way to stop people with criminal intent from gun onto campuses, then we can talk about what reasons we have to want to carry lawfully. Hanging up a sign doesn't count.

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KansasKansan 2 years, 2 months ago

October 16, 1991, Luby’s Cafeteria, Killeen, TX, “Gun-Free”: 1 gunman, 23 murdered, 20 injured. April 20, 1999, Columbine, “Gun-Free”: 2 gunmen, 13 murdered, 24 injured. Many were murdered AFTER the police were “on scene”. April 16, 2007, Virginia Tech, “Gun-Free”: 1 gunman, 32 murdered, 25 injured. Most were murdered AFTER the police were “on scene”. Feb 14,2008 Northern Illinois University, 1 gunman, 5 dead, 18 injured, gunman kills self long before police arrive to engage. Nov 5 ,2009 Ft Hood Texas, 1 gunman, 13 dead, 30 wounded. Military personnel on base are BANNED from having a weapon, but the shooter did, and it was almost 9 minutes before police responded.

Gun Free Zone: 5 incidents

Defenseless victims murdered: 86; Defenseless victims injured: 117

December 17, 1991 Shoney’s Family Restaurant, Anniston, AL: 3 gunmen, 20 hostages, one ARMED customer (Thomas Glenn Terry). Police finally arrived to find one dead robber, one wounded robber and the third had fled when the shooting started. NO INJURED INNOCENTS. October 1, 1997, Pearl High School: 1 gunman, 2 murdered, 7 injured: Stopped by ARMED vice principal. January 16, 2002, Virginia Appalachian School of Law: 1 gunman, 3 murdered, 3 injured. Killer was stopped when confronted by two ARMED students. Dec 9 2007, Colorado Springs, New Life Church, 1 gunman 2 murdered, 3 injured, gunman stopped when armed woman shoots gunman, who then turns gun on self and commits suicide, while 100 other church members are in church. May 4th, College Station Georgia 2 gunman, 10 victims, 1 dead gunman, 1 victim wounded. The 2 thugs robbing a party begin discussing if they have enough bullets to do the job. One man retrieves his firearm, kills one thug, chases the other off.

Where murderers encountered ARMED resistance: 5 incidents

murdered: 7; injured: 14

Where no resistance occurred, 9 plus times higher body count. Challenge: Find an example of a crime scene involving mass murder—or potential mass murder—where an armed intended victim “made things worse".

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Uhlrick_Hetfield_III 2 years, 2 months ago

Just like Congress, a Republican house and a Democratic Senate.

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Mark Jakubauskas 2 years, 2 months ago

We used to kid about that back in grad school.....the fastest way to pass your graduate oral exams: Walk in the room, sit down, lay the pistol on the table, and ask, "Any questions ?"

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FalseHopeNoChange 2 years, 2 months ago

If a crazed killer mows down dozens of students I'll not draw my CCW for fear of getting a fine.

Instead, I'll duck and cover waiting for a KU rent a cop to save the day while plugging my ears to not listen to the screams.

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FlintHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Props to Sen. Morris!! Best news from Topeka in several months.

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Fred Whitehead Jr. 2 years, 2 months ago

Good! This was the most stupid and ignorant proposal I have ever seen. People can cause enough mayhem in disputes with others without being armed with deadly weapons. It doesn't matter is you have a permit, people with their emotions out of control are very dangerous, even unarmed.

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missmagoo 2 years, 2 months ago

Legislators need to find something better to do.. seriously.

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theriddler 2 years, 2 months ago

Thank heavens, now I don't have to worry about some person shooting me over an argument and can rest assured that a Virginia tech style massacre won't happen here at KU.

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brewmaster 2 years, 2 months ago

This is good news. Now a TTA will not be able to legally possess concealed guns on KU campus; not TTA - Temporary Teaching Assistant, but rather TTA - Tattooed Thug Athlete.

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overplayedhistory 2 years, 2 months ago

"Steve Morris, R-Hugoton. He said combining concentrations of young people and guns doesn’t make sense."

I was wondering when practical reasoning would rear its ugly head in the republican party. Primary him! primary him! heretic! heretic!

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overplayedhistory 2 years, 2 months ago

I guess the cowboys did not get the memo: The west has already been settled. I'm sorry the who macho gun thing is just so gay.

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tomatogrower 2 years, 2 months ago

"House Democratic Leader Paul Davis of Lawrence, whose district includes Kansas University, said, “I think that we need to let the Regents institutions police those issues themselves. They know what the security concerns are, better than the 165 legislators.”"

So here is a truly conservative idea that I can get behind. On everything else the neoconservatives say "Get the government out", except gun control and women's bodies. Oh and anyone's sex life.

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vegieman 2 years, 2 months ago

Thank God, a politician with common sense. There are enough criminals and thugs running loose on college campuses across America. No sense promoting more wreckless temptation. Increase stiffer penalties on ones who do carry illegaly.

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50YearResident 2 years, 2 months ago

How can the Senate Leader, one man, keep a bill from being considered by the entire group of Senaters after it was approved by the House?

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Hedge 2 years, 2 months ago

Most people here don't even know the current laws.

For starters, since 2010, if you have a valid Kansas concealed carry permit you already can and do carry on a college campus. And if the buildings are not posted properly you can already carry in them as well. The only thing this bill would do is require some additional security if the college is going to require you to disarm while going into the building.

Interesting that since 2010 there hasn't been blood in the streets from this.

The other thing is this bill does NOT prevent a college from still having a no-gun policy for students. Granted it won't be a "criminal" act that you can get arrested for but the school can still expel a student if caught carrying.

And the real truth of it is there have been people concealed carrying long before there were any laws on the books permitting it. You just didn't know it because they carry concealed. And they are, for the most part, responsible law abiding people.

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defenestrator 2 years, 2 months ago

You do not want to be seen with a gun in your hand during any type of campus massacre. Chances are you would be shot on sight. Point is is that during a rampage, officers of the law will not be asking to see your permit.

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kujeeper 2 years, 2 months ago

I would rather be judge by 12 than carried by 6..... And do not ever refer to Campus Police (at least at KU) as professionals, they are department rejects from the true professional departments in eastern Kansas

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DillonBarnes 2 years, 2 months ago

What amazes me is the sheer fear people have over firearms, and honestly, I cannot understand many of the arguments against this bill. The amount of land in question in minuscule to the amount of land where concealed carry is already legal, but apparently this land is so vile, it corrupts otherwise normal minds into reckless killers.

How can you argue about increased violence with this passage? Remember, its only the addition of this 1% of land area that is changing, the variable of WHO is carrying is not changing. How can you argue about accidental discharges and handling stress when we just haven't seen those fears manifest on the 99% of land concealed carriers already carry in?

On one hand, you argue that campus is too stressful to allowed carry, and it pushes students to become violent, apparently to mass acts of violence; but on the other hand, you stress how safe KU campus is.

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Lawrence Morgan 2 years, 2 months ago

Morris is right on. Thanks for not acting on this legislation. It is very definitely the wrong thing. The only thing I would have liked the Journal-World to do, which it didn't, would be to get a wide variety of professors, students and the Chancellor to speak up and say what they think. Unless I have missed something, the most important thing here is the University, as well as other universities and community colleges throughout the state, but they are not represented here - in the kind of article the New York Times would do - and they need to be.

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begin60 2 years, 2 months ago

Thank you! Yes--let sanity prevail at least once a generation in Kansas. Please reject this bill.

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Kevin Haislip 2 years, 2 months ago

guns on campus! why waste our legislators time? kids with guns! how dumb! hell most of them can't use a condom without supervision.

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observant 2 years, 2 months ago

Another miracle, a Republican who actually has a brain and some common sense. Too bad he is a member of a very, very small group of Republicans.

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JayhawkFan1985 2 years, 2 months ago

Next step is to return the legal drinking age to 18. Bad idea.

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Flap Doodle 2 years, 2 months ago

CCW in Kansas didn't become law the first time around either. Come back in a year.

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lawslady 2 years, 2 months ago

Read it for yourselves and decide; http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2011_12/measures/hb2353/

If the jail does not put security up at every entrance to the building, the guns can get in. Only when there is a security check point does the person have to give up their weapon. See sections (a), (e) and (f). And as for mental wards, see section (g)

(a) The carrying of a concealed handgun as authorized by the personal and family protection act shall not be prohibited in state or municipality facilities or premises municipal buildings unless such facilities or premises have building has adequate security measures to ensure that no weapons are permitted to be carried into or on such premises or facilities such building. (e) Subject to provisions of subsection (f), nothing in this act shall limit the ability of a corrections facility, a jail facility or a law enforcement agency to prohibit the carrying of a concealed weapon by any person on such premises. (f) Any state or municipal building which contains both public access entrances and restricted access entrances shall provide adequate security at the public access entrances in order to prohibit the carrying of a concealed handgun in such public areas. (g) A state or municipal-owned medical care facility as defined in K.S.A. 65-425, and amendments thereto, may prohibit patients seeking treatment from carrying a concealed handgun. (i) For purposes of this section: (1) "Adequate security measures" means the use of electronic equipment and personnel at public entrances to detect and restrict the carrying of any weapons into the facility or on such premises state or municipal building, including, but not limited to, metal detectors, metal detector wands or any other equipment used for similar purposes to ensure that weapons are not permitted to be carried into such premises or facilities building by members of the public. (2) “Municipality” means as the term The terms "municipality" and "municipal" are interchangeable and have the same meaning as the term "municipality" is defined in K.S.A.75-6102, and amendments thereto, but does not include school districts. (3) "Restricted access entrance" means an entrance that is restricted to the public and requires a key, keycard, code, or similar device to allow entry to authorized personnel. (4) “State” means as the term is defined in K.S.A. 75-6102, and amendments thereto. (5) "State or municipal building" means a building owned or leased by such public entity. It does not include a building owned by the state or a municipality which is leased by a private entity whether for profit or not-for-profit or a building held in title by the state or a municipality solely for reasons of revenue bond financing.

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somedude20 2 years, 2 months ago

Finally, a Republican with a little common sense....kind of like finding a Bigfoot or God

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aryastark1984 2 years, 2 months ago

Wow! A modicum of common sense in the KS legislature! Will wonders never cease?

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lawslady 2 years, 2 months ago

Can we agree that the individuals serving in the military really know how to handle guns?
If you agree with that premise, did you know that in the military barracks and other locations on a military base have rules prohibiting carrying your weapon?

I enjoy using a gun and for years have enjoyed firing many types. And I think that anyone who wants to own a weapon should be allowed to do so (unless they have been previously adjudicated as unfit for some reason). So I am not anti-gun in any way. There are simply some places and situations where having weapons around (openly or concealed) is not a good idea.

The way this bill is written, the visitors at a prison, mental ward, day care, etc. would be allowed to bring in concealed weapons (of course they'd have to check them before going thru the security). Does anyone really think civilians walking around with concealed guns in such places is going to make it a safer envirnoment? If so, may I suggest you visit a country like Iran, where everyone who can walk is armed. See how safe you feel there.

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rockchalker52 2 years, 2 months ago

Hey, ya gotta protect yourself in this conference. There's Okie State Cowboys with their six-shooters & now we're adding the Davy Crockett Mountaineers with those longa$$ rifles. They'll kill the Baylor Bears before the age of three.

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Gotland 2 years, 2 months ago

Will college students still be allowed free speach and free assembly?

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tange 2 years, 2 months ago

I'd like to propose a moment of silence for all the gun enthusiasts who must be devastated by this development. I, for one, would give my right arm to always have a gun at my side. (Or my left arm, but not both, as I still need to feed myself.)

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lwctown 2 years, 2 months ago

So if I understand correctly the only people who can carry on campus are criminals who are not going to follow any gun laws anyway. Well at least we all know criminal gunmen never go on rampages on a college campus and women are never sexually assaulted on a college campus.....

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 2 years, 2 months ago

"So do I understand it correctly that Knox wants to allow legal licensed concealed weapons to be carried in public buildings because there isn't proper security to keep illegal weapons out?"

Yes

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rattler 2 years, 2 months ago

So do I understand it correctly that Knox wants to allow concealed weapons to be carried in public buildings because there isn't proper security to keep concealed weapons out? Makes sense to me.

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