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Letters to the Editor

Gun sense

February 7, 2012

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To the editor:

I read, with dismay, the Feb. 1 article in the Journal-World that there is a move in the Kansas Legislature to allow concealed weapons on college campuses. I’ve always been wary of the concealed carry law, but to expand it to college campuses seems a bit extreme to me. What’s next? Nursery schools? Day care?

I remember when concealed carry was passed, but I was totally in the dark until I read this article that it allowed people with vision disorders and physical disabilities to also carry a gun. A few years ago, I had major corrective ocular surgery. I think of myself before that and there was little chance that I could have used a concealed weapon effectively. At the least, I would have needed scattered birdshot, at best, a cluster bomb to ward off an assailant. I think the same limits would apply to anyone afflicted with Parkinson’s disease, multiple sclerosis or any other physical disability that restricts bodily movement and quick response to a dangerous situation. I question this section of the law, and the law itself, which does not consider the time of reaction for a disabled person to ward off an attacker and may bring greater danger to the disabled person.

When I moved to Kansas 22 years ago, I knew its residents to be straightforward, hard working, and with a broad streak of common sense. Now, it seems many have been duped and shoved aside by wild-eyed ultraconservatives, and pseudo Christians whose actions seem orchestrated by the Mad Hatter.

Comments

Gandalf 2 years, 10 months ago

This lte is missing 2 important facts.

  1. Being disabled does not automatically remove constitutional rights.

  2. In order to CC you have to take and pass a class.

Chad Lawhorn 2 years, 10 months ago

Just to be clear, you have to pass a class to receive a concealed carry permit. You don't have to pass a class to keep a concealed permit. The change in the law made it so that you never have to take the test again once you pass it the first time (as long as you send in your renewal form every 4 years.) Thanks, Chad

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 10 months ago

"2. In order to CC you have to take and pass a class."

The trend among gun freaks nationally is to remove all restrictions from concealed carry.

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

And, what if your situation changes after that?

According to Chad, one doesn't need to re-take the test.

So, somebody could be perfectly qualified the first time, take and pass the test, etc. and then develop health/mental issues that interfered with their ability to use a firearm safely.

Just as senior citizens aren't required to take driving exams to renew their driver's licenses, which I also think is flawed.

What's wrong with requiring periodic re-testing for CC?

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

I disagree.

Just as with senior citizens and driver's licenses, I see no good reason not to re-test people periodically.

Why do you think that one test at a certain age is valid for the rest of somebody's life?

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

Why wait until somebody runs somebody over and kills them, or shoots somebody by mistake?

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

It has long been established that various requirements for gun possession don't "infringe" on the right.

This would just be one of those.

Or do you think there should be no requirements at all? If it's ok to require a test for a concealed carry permit, why isn't it ok to require re-testing at reasonable intervals?

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

Again, and I think this will be the last time, because waiting for "evidence" of a problem is likely to result in harm to others.

To buy a gun, one must generally go through a variety of requirements, all of which have been found to be constitutional.

Background checks, waiting periods, etc.

For a CC license, one must apparently pass some sort of test. If that's ok the first time, then it should be ok at reasonable intervals, to make sure that people are still able to pass it.

Just as it's reasonable to have drivers periodically re-take road tests.

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

Ok.

I think that those individual sales shouldn't be exempt - there are too many loopholes there. That's how we get crazy school shooters with guns.

Is your argument that there should be no requirements at all? Either for purchasing or for CC licenses?

All of the above requirements have been held to be constitutional, as far as I know, so what's the issue exactly?

If it's ok to require a test, it's ok to require periodic re-testing, right?

And, actually, in theory I have no problem with rights for American citizens only going to folks who are in fact citizens - it makes sense to me.

So, gun ownership and voting are the same there - I see no real problem making sure that people are citizens before granting them rights of citizens.

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

Ok.

So you're an extremist when it comes to the 2nd amendment.

It's consistent, though, which is good.

Kendall Simmons 2 years, 10 months ago

I have long been perversely amused by the case of Steven Hopler. He's blind. Drank too much. Shot himself by accident. And, while he was in the hospital, his neighbor broke into his apartment and stole his guns.

parrothead8 2 years, 10 months ago

"Get back to me if you ever find a case of a disabled CC holder shooting the wrong person."

Will do. Please get back to me if you ever find a case of someone not carrying a gun shooting anyone.

oldvet 2 years, 10 months ago

But I don't suppose you would like to have examples of someone NOT carrying a gun who was shot by a criminal...

RoeDapple 2 years, 10 months ago

I am amazed at the number of vision impaired applicants who have been rushing to take advantage of this loophole.

<< rolls eyes

Abdu Omar 2 years, 10 months ago

I have not taken the CC course but I understand it is designed to weed out those who cannot perform with proficency. Only the best should be awarded a license to carry.

jhawk_36 2 years, 10 months ago

I have been blind in one eye for 30 years and i still hunt and carry a pistol and rifle and so dont let what the goverment put in the C.C law make you wander as it has been said you have to pass back ground checks and tests. In '94 i lived in So. Dakota and thier C.C was obtainable by simply appliing payin $15 or 20 fee and they did a check to make sure you were a resident and you were legal to carry a gun and they sent you 1 with it it allowed to buy any gun and take it home the same day no waiting time, kansas it behind times. It has always been that you can carry,wear, or have a gun on your self in public as long as its not concelled Ide rather have it in the open than concelled but the anti gun nuts these days would have a cow and get stupid it everyone that has a C.C and has there gun with them would carry it in the open for a week this i would love to see and hear thier reactions... Heck some people in New York think we still wear a 6 shooter and ride horses every were we go....

jaywalker 2 years, 10 months ago

"What’s next? Nursery schools? Day care?"

How to lose credibility in four sentences or less.

Flap Doodle 2 years, 10 months ago

Same old, "why can't everyone in Kansas drink the Flavor-Aid and join the Brave New World of the Current Regime?"

Getaroom 2 years, 10 months ago

obviously you drank someones, musta' been Bush's brew. Permanent damage is clear.

Flap Doodle 2 years, 10 months ago

I'd swear that I just saw this very same post earlier on this award-winning website.

bad_dog 2 years, 10 months ago

Fill my eyes with that double vision No disguise for that double vision Ooh, when it gets through to me, it's always new to me My double vision gets the best of me, the best of me, yeah-ah

Dan Eyler 2 years, 10 months ago

I am in taking the concealed and carry class and I am amazed by the stupidity in these comments. I consider the training good. We spent a great deal of time on the law and the issues that come up for those who decide to license themselves. It carries a great deal of responsibility. I have hunted since I was a boy here in Kansas but the responsibilities associated with concealed and carry are far different. I encourage all Kansans to take the class whether or not you plan to get the permit. Find out for yourself. Poor Jack is simply talking out his you know what. His comments compared to reality of concealed and carry demonstrate that he simply wants to deny Kansans the right to protect and defend themselves. I have a good friend who suffers seriously with MS. He has difficulty walking at times, but his mind is good, his vision is plenty good enough to defend himself. He has as much a right as I do to defend himself if necessary. But he also will know when that disease has taken away his ability to fulfill his obligation to safely handle his firearm. Take the class Jack and stop your childish chatter.

Ron Holzwarth 2 years, 10 months ago

I knew a man that was legally blind that got a driver's license here in Kansas.

He had a small spot of vision, and he was instructed to be constantly scanning back and forth whenever he was driving. He did have a bit of trouble with the traffic lights at some intersections.

501gdm2 2 years, 10 months ago

Well I guess you can move to another state again.

BigAl 2 years, 10 months ago

I must admit that I was against concealed carry. But, to my knowledge there hasn't been one instance where there has been a problem with CC. I still am cautious of the government determining who can and who cannot carry a gun but so far..... so good. I personally don't understand folks that feel the need to arm themselves but to each his own. (as long as it doesn't affect me or my family)

Sally Piller 2 years, 10 months ago

Back atcha Gotland! Amazing how freaked out the gun nuts get when the supposed constitutional right to own and carry their beloved fire arms is even questioned in regard to the blind and on college campuses. What makes you cling to your deadly weapons with such passion? Fear and paranoia? Great letter, Jack! Especially the last line.

By the way, I regularly horseback ride in the country. I appreciate that there are hunters out there and I am especially wary during the long deer season. But I never considered the idea of a visually impaired hunter. That really gives me the willies.

Mike Ford 2 years, 10 months ago

spoken by a lifetime Democrat and Obama supporter and thirty year gun supporter... falsehope.....do you have anything at all smart to say or is it all just baiting comments and bells and whistles.....I fear no one and own hunting weapons and I've never used them in self defence because I'm not as delusional and paranoid as some of the people I refute.

FlintlockRifle 2 years, 10 months ago

Nice article there Jack, me thinks you should have done a little more research to get your facts straight before you write your next letter to editor.

rtwngr 2 years, 10 months ago

Hey, Jack, it is a statistical fact that violent crime rates are less in states that have CC laws.

Kendall Simmons 2 years, 10 months ago

Nope. Not true. It is a statistical fact, though, that there are statistics and studies that support both positions.

The best that can be said is that concealed carry doesn't appear to increase crime.

Peacemaker452 2 years, 10 months ago

Since you have stated that it is a "statistical fact", please provide a link to a credible source that shows that concealed carry increases crime.

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

She said it didn't appear to do that.

Her comment was that it's not proven to "reduce" crime.

Peacemaker452 2 years, 10 months ago

acornwebworks (Kendall Simmons) replies… “Nope. Not true. It is a statistical fact, though, that there are statistics and studies that support both positions.”

So, she said that it is a fact that there are studies and statistics that show that CC increases crime. I requested a link to a credible study (that she says exists) to show that CC increases crime.

jafs 2 years, 10 months ago

No, read the rest of the post.

She said the best that can be said is that it doesn't appear to "increase" crime.

The both sides would be, then, whether or not CC reduces crime or not.

Peacemaker452 2 years, 10 months ago

Ok, I see your point.

Is "both positions" meant as increase vs. decrease or decrease vs. not decrease.

If the intent was the latter I withdraw my request for supporting info on crime increase.

Peacemaker452 2 years, 10 months ago

We have one study, conducted in 1995, which found increased gun murder rates in 4 large urban areas after CC laws were enacted. Their research does not show any correlation between these murders and licensed CC holders. The people conducting the study even questioned the link between the murder rate and CC laws because of the inconsistency in their data.

So, we still don’t have a credible study that shows that CC increases crime.

xclusive85 2 years, 10 months ago

That was kinda the point. In this one link, there is no real conclusion on the effect of CC on crime rates. One thing was said was that states that had CC laws had reduced violent crimes. This was just to reinforce the statement of a previous poster that said it wasn't conclusive one way or the other.

rtwngr 2 years, 10 months ago

Hey, Jack, it is a statistical fact that violent crime rates are less in states that have CC laws.

drake 2 years, 10 months ago

Those wild-eyed ultra conservatives are the straightforward, hard working ones with a broad streak of common sense. The know-it-all elitist snobs on your side? Notsomuch

Cai 2 years, 10 months ago

I'm still trying to figure out: a) how a college campus compares to a nursery school any more than say.... the downtown next to the college

b) how my daughter could, as a 4 year old nursery school student, get her hands on a CC permit.

c) why Jack thinks that the parents of nursery school children don't already have guns when they pick up their kids. K-12 has rules against guns in the building ... but nursery schools often don't.

jayhawklawrence 2 years, 10 months ago

The scary gun issue seems similar to the scary gays issue. The Democrats don't have as many ways to scare people as the Republicans so they grab on to this one and exaggerate the hell out of it.

Sounds like Jack fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Too bad we can't filter out the nonsense in politics and get to solving some real problems.

Liberty275 2 years, 10 months ago

We took a trip to Bass Pro Shops last night and now I've got to have that Bushmaster AR15. It's a little hard to conceal though.

Flap Doodle 2 years, 10 months ago

Wearing a poncho may be the answer you're looking for.

SnakeFist 2 years, 10 months ago

I teach on a college campus. The last thing you want is some stoned/drunk and/or depressed eighteen year old kid carrying a gun to class. Its tragic enough when it happens illegally, there's no reason to make it legal.

Fred Mertz 2 years, 10 months ago

stoned or drunk and carrying concealed is illegal.

KansasKansan 2 years, 10 months ago

This is NOT a debate about keeping guns out of the hands of college students. Allowing concealed carry on college campuses would not change the rules about who can buy a gun or who can obtain a concealed handgun license. Every state that provides for legalized concealed carry has statutes prohibiting license holders from carrying while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Legalizing concealed carry on college campuses would neither make it easier for college students to obtain firearms nor make it legal for a person to carry a firearm while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Allowing concealed carry on college campuses would have no impact on the laws regulating concealed carry at bars and off-campus parties, the places where students (particularly students of legal age to obtain a concealed handgun license) are most likely to consume alcohol.

Before shall-issue concealed carry laws were passed throughout the United States, opponents claimed that such laws would turn disputes over parking spaces and traffic accidents into shootouts. This did not prove to be the case. The same responsible adults—age twenty-one and above—now asking to be allowed to carry their concealed handguns on college campuses are already allowed to do so virtually everywhere else. They clearly do not let their emotions get the better of them in other environments; therefore, no less should be expected of them on college campuses.

Flap Doodle 2 years, 10 months ago

Psst, snakey, an 18-year old can't get a concealed carry permit in Kansas.

Charles L Bloss Jr 2 years, 10 months ago

There is nothing in the Constitution about sick people being armed. In fact, there is nothing about government requiring a permit to be armed. All elected persons take an oath to support and defend the constitution The ones that fail to follow the oath they have taken, should be removed from office. Enough said

Getaroom 2 years, 10 months ago

Pssst! Snappy no crackie pass this along, the mass hysteria for CC is amassing on the border nonreality. Boo! Obama is going to take your guns and ammo away..... right..... now!.
News falsh! Sorry, it didn't happen and all that paranoia for nutin'. The Supreme Koch of Brownbackwardistan however is alive and well and looking to stick it to you from all angles. Beware, sound bite man, they are comin' to get ya!! Boo!

Flap Doodle 2 years, 10 months ago

What seems like mass hysteria to some are reasonable precautions to others. (from a source) (BTW, is there a website with a snarky phrase generator that all you disappointed progressives use?)

bad_dog 2 years, 10 months ago

No! Thank you. You are my inspiration, snapper!

Flap Doodle 2 years, 10 months ago

I'll go for a stroll on the plastic grass whilst toting my combat Tupperware.

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