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Archive for Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Letter: That’s enough

December 19, 2012

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To the editor:

That’s it. That’s enough. Twenty dead children including a 6-year-old with 11 bullet wounds is way more than enough.

The NRA likes to say that guns don’t kill people, criminals kill people. In recent years it has become obvious that it takes a mentally deranged person with assault weapons and high capacity magazines to kill mass numbers of people.

These weapons are not necessary for hunting or target practice or self protection. They are only designed for and necessary for killing large numbers of people.

Any NRA member who doesn’t get on the phone or e-mail and demand that the NRA cease opposition to limits on assault weapons and high capacity magazines is a gutless wonder and an accessory to the future murder of children.

Comments

dogbait 1 year, 3 months ago

Wow, the dogs keep fighting while the cat drags away the dinner! Hey people, focus on the real matter. " Gun Control for persons who should not have access to them" Now let's spend our time and money on those who need mental help instead.

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Leslie Swearingen 1 year, 3 months ago

My thing is that by focusing on the weapon we are ignoring the killer and what brought him to that point in his life. It is my belief that his mother took him to shooting ranges to channel his interest in guns and teach him to be responsible. I have to assume that none of the people in charge at the ranges saw anything that worried them about this young man.

I would ask the commenters above these questions, do you know anyone who has weapons who has made some iffy comments about killing people, and if so what did you do about it?

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dlkrm 1 year, 3 months ago

Dr. Bruner, you are a glittering jewel of colossal ignorance.

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JW1945 1 year, 3 months ago

So it seems the constitution's intent was to allow the average American the right to bear arms to defend themselves against a state militia? Let's think about that one for awhile ............Saddam Hussein had thousands & thousands of Russian tanks, scud missiles, a standing Army of hundreds of thousands, Russian jet fighter planes, Triple AAA anti-aircraft missiles, etc, etc, & the U.S Military destroyed his entire military in about a month & killed tens of thousands of trained soldiers. And the argument is that the average beer drinking Joe who goes out & practice shoots or hunts, who by the way has 0 tanks, 0 jet fighters, 0 Triple AAA Anti-Aircraft, 0 cruise milles, 0 nuclear weapons, 0 B-52 Heavy Bombers, 0 Stealth bombers or fighters, 0 Nuclear Aircraft carriers, 0 Nuclear submarines, O Bazookas, RPG's. Self propelled Howitzers, Wart Hog Gunships, 0 access to hundreds of sensitive military satelitte data (eyes in the sky), the CIA organization & the FBI organization. So tell me again - - the constitution's right allows us citizens to overthrow our government if need be? That's the lamest argument I've ever heard, Are these people for real? I would buy tickets to see these guys go up against the entire U.S.military complex & actually think they are going to win?

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Crazy_Larry 1 year, 3 months ago

I think this explains the 2nd Amendment nicely.

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notaubermime 1 year, 3 months ago

The way that I see it, the US has two problems: mental health and easy access to firearms. I don't know that you can look at the Virginia Tech shooter, Tuscon shooter, Aurora shooter, and a whole host of other mass murderers and think that there isn't a problem with mental health in this country. Heck, all one has to do is look around on the streets of downtown sections in practically every city in the country to come to the conclusion that not enough is being done for these individuals. These are people who need treatment at the very least, and round the clock care at the most. We need to listen to trained psychologists and psychiatrists about how to better care for them.

The second thing that should be considered is how easy it is to get guns, and how easy it is to get illegal guns. Individuals with obvious mental health issues should not have access to guns. Criminals should not have access to guns. American guns should not be fueling drug violence on our border, nor empowering cartels to pump illegal drugs into the US. I respect the right of a trained, licensed, and responsible gun owner. I call into question why anyone else should have a gun.

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Crazy_Larry 1 year, 3 months ago

Gun Control = Hitting what you aim at.

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JW1945 1 year, 3 months ago

There was a time when we could proudly call ourselves Americans, & rightly so, but our country has lost it's way when almost every month we see on the nightly news that some American somewhere has went on a rampage & for whatever inexcusable reason goes out & murders dozens of other Americans who are innocent people. What frightens me even more is that I go to work the next day & people do not even mention these events anymore! It has become the norm. I am afraid our soceity has now became immune to these ever more increasing murders - just another day in America. I saw some kids coming in from recess today & I thought to myself I guess we'll be forced to build 15 feet concrete walls around our schoolyards these days with 5 feet of electric barbed wire on the top, bullet-proof all the windows (or no windows at all), have armed guards at every door & gate. How about our school buses? Do we need to put 6 inches of armor on them & bullet-proof their windows? I applaud Dr. Bruner for having the courage to say enough is enough, he is right about that. We cannot be proud to be Americans anymore until this is solved, whatever it takes.

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FlintlockRifle 1 year, 3 months ago

Hang on there doc, AR'S come in hunting calibers not just in 5.56 or 223, just shows how much the average smow knows about what the news media feeds you. Just stick to your docking,

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hedshrinker 1 year, 3 months ago

I am really confused about how all of a sudden, the gun rights people say it's not about easy access to guns, it's all those mentally ill people who are the problems...I'm not sure what they are proposing for mentally ill people....put them in a camp, lock them up, sterilize them? Have you any idea how many people are taking anti-depressants and stimulants for ADHD and anti-anxiety meds, and sleep aids, and even some prn major tranquilizers thrown in, most of which are prescribed BTW by their general practitioner, not a psychiatric expert .....these MILLIONS of people ALL must carry a psychiatric diagnosis: adjustment disorder, ADD, sleep disorder, dysthymia, social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, etc. I assume the gun rights people who think gun violence would disappear if "crazy " people couldn't get gun access aren't talking about restricting guns from their college student with ADD or their sister with premenstrual dysphoria or their spouse with depression...or maybe they are....what about people with schizophrenia (who are more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence), what about people with personality disorders (antisocial, etc), who are probably not in treatment, don't have a formal diagnosis and may be more of a concern than anyone else? If the current concern about mental health would get Gov Brownback to put millions of dollars back into the budget for community mental health centers, adding highly skilled personnel and decreasing now lengthy waiting lists, it might help the access problem, but something tells me that's not what the gun people are advocating. They are just looking for another fall guy so they can keep their gun safes full and swagger around with their machismo attitudes saying Make My Day! I am very fearful that just as we are coming out of the dark ages of terrible stigmatizing of people with ANY kind of common cold variety of mental health issues, we will be pushing those people back into the closet so they will NEVER seek treatment, no matter how "available" it might be. Also, after 3 decades in the trenches in both public and private, inpatient and outpatient, academic and clinical mental health, I know how difficult to impossible it is to predict who is a danger to self or others...I would really be interested in the implementation process the gun people have in mind.

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Brock Masters 1 year, 3 months ago

What. I find interesting is many who screamed about the sanctity of our rights and how the horrible right was trying to infringe the right of a person to vote by imposing an ID requirement are quick to further limit gun owners rights that are already highly regulated and limited.

Double standard in my opinion. I am okay with the current limitations on my rights and would consider further limitations if a cause effect relationship can established.

Would you not demand the same if we were talking about restricting 1 st amendment rights or more restrictions on voting?

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Dec84 1 year, 3 months ago

Why don't we just teach our children, the meaning of Life.... Now that will be Enough.

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Karl_Hungus 1 year, 3 months ago

"Never considered this until now, but isn't it odd that generally the same group of people that wants to legalize pot also wants to criminalize gun ownership?"

I feel ya brother as the same group of peeps who want to save a fetus also wants an arsenal of weapons that are made to take lives...

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rockchalk1977 1 year, 3 months ago

New poll... Americans say increased police presence at schools, mental health screening and decreased depiction of gun violence in entertainment would be effective in preventing mass shootings at schools. Ban on assault and semi-automatic guns ranks 4th.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/159422/stop-shootings-americans-focus-police-mental-health.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=morelink&utm_term=All%20Gallup%20Headlines%20-%20Politics

Obama's push to limit our second amendment rights is misguided like everything else he does.

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Bill_Slu 1 year, 3 months ago

School attacks in China (2010–2012) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A series of uncoordinated mass stabbings, hammer attacks, and cleaver attacks in the People's Republic of China began in March 2010. The spate of attacks left at least 21 dead and some 90 injured. Analysts have blamed mental health problems caused by rapid social change for the rise in these kind of mass murder and murder-suicide incidents.[1] Contents

In September 2011, a young girl and three adults taking their children to nursery school were killed in Gongyi,[19] Henan by 30-year-old Wang Hongbin with an axe.[20] Another child and an adult were seriously wounded but survived.[21] The suspect is a local farmer who is suspected of being mentally ill.[22] December 2012 Main article: Chenpeng Village Primary School stabbing

On 14 December 2012, a 36 year-old villager in the village of Chenpeng, Henan Province, stabbed 23 children and an elderly woman at the village's primary school as children were arriving for classes. The attacker was restrained at the school, and later arrested. All of the victims survived and were treated at three hospitals, though some were reportedly seriously injured, with fingers or ears cut off, and had to be transferred to larger hospitals for specialized care.

So, Dr. Should we ban Knives, Axes and Chinese people?

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John Hampton 1 year, 3 months ago

Remind me again what the "AR" stands for in AR-15.

Remind me what is the definition of "assault"?

I'm for ownership of guns and the second amendment. I'm also for honesty and not misrepresenting the facts.

As for a waiting period to purchase.... for what reason would someone "need" any firearm.... now? As in right now or this afternoon or tomorrow? Things that happen in the heat of the moment or in a spontaneous nature are the only reasons. These are exactly the same reasons we don't need instantaneous purchase of weapons.

I plan on buying a hunting rifle for next year's deer season. I also plan on planning ahead so I have it in time. If I wait until the day of the season, I know I'll be out of luck for that week of hunting.

It's not rocket surgery.

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gilly 1 year, 3 months ago

Each of the children and adults who died had a right to live, which was taken away by a person with access to a weapon of mass destruction. As a society we have the right to regulate access to weapons of mass destruction to reduce the likelihood of someone impinging on the rights of others to live.

As so many comments to this letter shows, gun ownership is for many a fetish, an emotional need that exceeds actual need and common sense.

The right of fetishists to own increasingly lethal weaponry is outweighed by the right of all of us to live protected from those who would use such weapons to hurt us.

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Gandalf 1 year, 3 months ago

Everybody needs to lighten up a bit. It's starting to get shrill! I haven't seen one comment on these boards that indicates this shooting wasn't a horrific act that has sickened a nation. But I don't think guns are the problem, people are, either sick disturbed or distraught whatever the case may be. Not having a gun readily available my limit or stop a few suicides. But an act as was committed in Newtown was a premeditated act of violence and no gun ban or law could have prevented it. At best it would have just changed the weapons used to a shotgun and semi-automatic pistols.

As far as why anyone would want a assault styled weapon that's easy. It's the same reason Chrysler makes a sports car that is governed down to 157mph. Or motorcycles that will do 140 easily. The same reason that women have a little black dress in their wardrobe or like to shop at fancy lingerie stores. Or computers have to be made better and more powerful with ever increasing memory. Or Colt made a 50 ca. pistol. People are competitive and the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Everyone wants to keep up with the Joneses!

Almost anything can be used for an evil purpose (and usually are). Most serious gun collectors do have gun safes. They have a lot of money tied up in their weapons. That doesn't mean that their family members do not have access.

The military style weapons are really no worse than any other type. It take less than a second to load a semi-automatic and only fractionally longer to reload a revolver with a speed loader. I don’t have a problem with background checks for any weapon, if you can’t pass one you probably don’t deserve one.

So let’s at least try to find a common ground, and one that might really make a difference. That is expanded mental health care. Even that won’t solve all the problems, but it actually might be able to make far more of a difference than any ban. Prohibition did not work for alcohol or drugs, if anything it has made it worse. So quit blaming innocent people who have done no wrong and enforce the laws we already have.

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ferrislives 1 year, 3 months ago

I know that debating gun rights is everyone's right in this country, but I hope that you would please remember the real victims in all of this.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/12/us/sandy-hook-victims/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Maybe you can click each photo and read each description to learn a little of who they were and the gifts they brought to their families and friends, and this country. Maybe you can even think about how they aren't much different from the children in your own life, and how this discussion should not be dismissive. It should be real and comprehensive.

Yes, people have certain rights to own arms in this country, but these people had the right to live and prosper. The terrible loss of those rights are getting lost in this debate, and their rights matter too!

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RoeDapple 1 year, 3 months ago

"jhawhinsf - Dillon's is always an option"

Me thinks you know not what you offer . . . .

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hipper_than_hip 1 year, 3 months ago

Too bad the media doesn't have articles about the lives that are saved everyday by the legal use of firearms.

As someone pointed out above, we're ok with the police having high cap magazines, high powered semi-auto rifles, and as much ammo as they can carry.

Since the police are the second responders to show up at the scene of a crime (the victim is the first responder), why would you deny potential victims the ability to be as well armed as the police who show up after the fact?

I would argue that the need for such weaponry in the hands of civilians is at least equal to, if not greater than, the needs of the police.

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yourworstnightmare 1 year, 3 months ago

I ask these serious questions of those opposed to regulating access to assault weaponry and arms.

Should we have the individual right to own rocket launchers? Tanks? Missiles? Torpedos? Nuclear weapons?

I am not being facetious here. I would like to hear your serious answers.

We already have laws against individuals owning these types of arms. Where do the restrictions end for you, and why?

0

Pork_Ribs 1 year, 3 months ago

"It merely gives the rest of us the go-ahead to imprison the offenders after the fact." Agreed...but isn't that the case with any crime? I agree with you essentially that gun control only controls the guns of the responsible citizen (to put my words in your mouth:) I'm not sure you're correct on the CT laws though...Did the CT shooter's mom get charged yet? I'll look into it deeper and see what I can find.

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Pork_Ribs 1 year, 3 months ago

I believe that if your gun is used in an illegal violent act...you should go to prison as if you pulled the trigger yourself. If you can't secure your weapons properly...then, I believe, you haven't earned the right to have them. I don't care if it's a BB gun or an AR-15.

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Milton Bland 1 year, 3 months ago

I have a good friend who lives 40 miles outside of New Orleans. He is a doctor, He was extremely glad he had a semi-automatic weapon with hundreds of rounds available after Katrina. He had lost electricity and was using his back-up generator. There was no police protection in his area for thirteen days, but plenty of looters were trying to take advantage of his family's food supply. It is possible for a Katrina scale disaster ton hit any part of this country, so don't tell me there is no need for "assult" style weapons. If Bruner were half as smart as he thinks he is, he would be going after the real problem. That is the liberals who run the movie, television, and video game industries. Violence on those venues should be regulated, not guns!

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md 1 year, 3 months ago

Was it any different before God was taken out of the schools? Just asking.

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kernal 1 year, 3 months ago

There isn't going to be an all inclusive ban on guns. That's not even doable. What we do need is an overhaul of the existing gun laws. If you think it's okay to sell guns and ammo at shows with no criminal background checks, or to sell them on line, etc., then it's pointless to even have a discussion with you about it.

As for arming teachers in our schools, I disagree with those who think that's part of the solution. Most of our teachers have never shot a gun, much less owned one. Using Israeli teachers as an example doesn't cut it since most Israelis are required to do a stint in the Israeli Army after high school. They are some of the best trained soldiers in the world.

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skinny 1 year, 3 months ago

Guess it is time to renew my NRA subscription!

2

Phoghorn 1 year, 3 months ago

Regardless, of our personal views on firearm ownership, it is obvious that gun free zones are not working. Nearly every mass-shooting occurs in one of them. This includes the Fort Hood massacre which occurred in a gun free area of the fort.

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disappointed_regressive 1 year, 3 months ago

This is a complicated and sad situation. I haven't heard one single solution that makes sense. Furthermore, although this Newtown massacre is of the most horrific scale, the following recieved minimal attention by the same media who is screaming for gun control---if we're to just stick to the gun control topic, which is what this tragedy has morphed into.

*DETROIT (myFOXDetroit.com) - It has been a violent two weeks in Detroit. There have been 32 murders in just 15 days, and that doesn't include non-fatal shootings. *

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/19568205/32-people-murdered-over-15-day-period-in-detroit

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Elrond 1 year, 3 months ago

The knee jerk response to these types of event is to propose taking guns away from those that didn't do it.

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rockchalk1977 1 year, 3 months ago

"Sales skyrocket for Utah company’s bulletproof backpacks and kids’ body armor".

http://fox13now.com/2012/12/18/sales-skyrocket-for-utah-companys-bulletproof-backpacks-and-kids-body-armor/

It's a sad day when we have to send our children to school in body armor. What has America become?

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smitty 1 year, 3 months ago

After a 1996 Mass Shooting, Australia Enacted Strict Gun Laws. It Hasn't Had a Similar Massacre Since. By Will Oremus

On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania. By the time he was finished, he had killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It was the worst mass murder in Australia’s history.

Twelve days later, Australia’s government did something remarkable. Led by newly elected conservative Prime Minister John Howard, it announced a bipartisan deal with state and local governments to enact sweeping gun-control measures. A decade and a half hence, the results of these policy changes are clear: They worked really, really well.

At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia.

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avarom 1 year, 3 months ago

If there is a law banning guns....every black market person in every country will be selling them and making tons of money....bringing them illegally to the US, without any trace of who really owns them. So, if this nut case, did not obtain his guns from his Mother, and bought them illegally out the trunk of a vehicle......we would of never known who they really belong to. Do we really want illegal gun trade to increase....its' bad enough now.....it will get worse....when there is money to be made and guns are not attainable, illegal gun trade will be even more rampade.We all know this!!I I do believe we should have strong gun restrictions.... like clean driver's record...no dui's, drugs arrests, or domestic violence arrests, gun violations etc... clean mental health status, so if you are taking any kind of physc meds for example, that would disqualify you, like driving with out your glasses, but more restrictive. You need to pass some type of gun training and you have to re-certification courses every 3 years....to keep your license current, like your Driver's license. Also, mantatory metal detectors in all schools and on duty security guards during in-session school time. And, the security guards need to carry projectile stun guns, handcuffs, protective gear and on going lockers searches. We need better protection for our children, We can't be Everywhere!

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labmonkey 1 year, 3 months ago

Doctor, you are a victim of falling to symbolism over substance. Symbolism in this case is making laws that will only keep guns from law abiding citizens. If someone really wants an AR or semi-auto AK (I refuse to refer to these as assault weapons as they are not), they will get one. If they cannot, they will find other means as many soldiers in Iraq have found out with their lives with the use of IED's. The two largest terrorist attacks on US soil and the largest school massacre in US history did not involve one firearm.

Substance... Israel armed their teachers decades ago and the school shootings stopped there. Substance... you never hear of mass shootings in Switzerland and most people ages 20-30 have an automatic weapon in their house (not semi-auto, but and ACTUAL assault weapon) and they also have one of the lowest murder per capita rates in the world. Substance... the top two countries in the western world for violent crimes are Australia and Great Britain, two countries that practically took away all their citizens' guns.

Instead of symbolic feel-good legislation, why not repeal Gun Free School Zones, let teachers be armed if they pass a rigorous course, and mandate that the principal take a rigorous course and be armed. This would make one less place these nut jobs would attack since their might be someone shooting back.

Then again, you wrote a LTE that resorted to name calling so I doubt you would listen to reason.

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maporter 1 year, 3 months ago

Dr. Bruner today and others yesterday pose solutions to the symptom, not the problem. The Newton shooter took 20 minutes to shoot 26 people before the authorities showed up. He could have done this with a muzzle loaded weapon. Neither the capacity of the magazines nor the type of weapon was a factor. As David Kopel stated in a Wall Street Journal Op-Ed yesterday: “People who are serious about preventing the next Newtown should embrace much greater funding for mental health, strong laws for civil commitment of the violently mentally ill—and stop kidding themselves that pretend gun-free zones will stop killers.”

Pretend gun-free zones, where only the law-abiding citizens comply, promote rather than discourage the actions of deranged shooters such as the one in Newton.

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rockchalk1977 1 year, 3 months ago

Another knee-jerk reaction to a complex problem. Tell me Dr. Bruner, how many children are killed by abortion doctors each year? Where is the outrage over that statistic.

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KSManimal 1 year, 3 months ago

Keep in mind that the legal definition(s) of "assault weapon" have been almost entirely based on cosmetic features (bayonet mounts, folding stocks, protruding pistol grips, flash suppressors, etc.) that have nothing whatsoever to do with the lethality of the weapons.

That's right, folks..... the whole gun control effort is based on emotion, not logic. Hence, we've pushed to ban the guns that look scary to ballistophobes.

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Pork_Ribs 1 year, 3 months ago

All I have to say to anyone...Government or individual...who wishes to take away my guns. Come and get'em at your own risk. Who will be the first?

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Liberty275 1 year, 3 months ago

"That’s it. That’s enough"

What the young man did was horrible, but nothing is horrible enough to deprive innocent people of their constitutional rights.

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Les Blevins 1 year, 3 months ago

Dr. Bruner wrote about assault weapons saying that these weapons; "are only designed for and necessary for killing large numbers of people" which makes me wonder if he has formed any ideas yet about why the police always seem to have them when trouble comes up. I don't own a gun of this type but I have a TV and whenever the calls come in that trouble is brewing the news people show police running with assault weapons in hand. Are they bent on killing a large number of people or is it they simply want equal firepower or better than their adversary.

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Brock Masters 1 year, 3 months ago

And lets get one thing straight, the 2nd amendment is not about hunting and recreational shooting. It is about self defense. If I am forced to use a gun in self defense then I want one designed to kill. I also wants one that provides me with sufficient ammo to protect myself and my family.

Finally, I want one that is reliable. I don't need a military weapon and they aren't available to me anyway, but one designed on a military weapon will incorporate the R&D that went into designing those weapons. It really is no different than the navigation systems we use in our car. They are not military grade, but the technology and design came from the military.

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Brock Masters 1 year, 3 months ago

Doc, you are part of the problem, not because of your opinion but because of the way you express it. Besides the immature name calling, you attack with hate. Hate divides this country, makes it grow angry and creates an environment ripe for violence.

Express your views but do so in a constructive tone that will serve to promote a dialogue and not in way that shuts down conversation and heats up anger.

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KSManimal 1 year, 3 months ago

Residential swimming pools are about 100 times more likely to kill than are guns. I wonder if the good doctor, or any of his MD colleagues, have pools?

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RoeDapple 1 year, 3 months ago

There are 225,000 deaths per year from iatrogenic causes. Doctors are killers.

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Richard Heckler 1 year, 3 months ago

2012 was the year celebrating the most mass murders in USA history. Guns are not the answer.

Every country on earth has some people who are unbalanced.

Only in America can they get access to adult weapons..... military assault weapons

If guns made people safe, America would be the safest country on earth.

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Roland Gunslinger 1 year, 3 months ago

  1. Assault weapons are already banned. None have been used in any recent attacks. Just because something has black plastic body pieces as opposed to wood ones doesn't make the rifle an "assault weapon".

  2. High capacity magazines are prone to jamming, double feeding, or worse the dreaded brass over bolt feed. Because the maniac in Aurora, CO had a 100 round magazine his weapon jammed thus rendering it useless. If he had been using smaller magazines his chances of getting a malfunction would have dropped significantly which could have very possibly lead to more deaths. A lot of lives were saved because of a high capacity magazine and their propensity to malfunction.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 1 year, 3 months ago

My deer rifle is an AR-15 chambered in 6.8 SPC.

I also use an AR-15 to compete in 3 gun competition.

Yes, I hunt with my AR-15 and there is a legitimate sporting purpose.

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Mike Gerhardt 1 year, 3 months ago

Doctor, I am an NRA member and have been since I was 10. I also served 20 plus years in the Army and now am a law enforcement professional. Frankly, other than name calling, you are merely a blowhard. I also own an AR-15 and have never violated any laws with it. You are no more than a knee-jerk type and it will be my pleasure to never set foot in your office.

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