Archive for Saturday, October 8, 2011

New Deal II

October 8, 2011

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To the editor:

Our U.S. unemployment rate is said to be 9.1 percent. I believe it is much higher because many people have given up trying for employment. Other unemployed people despair of success and never even try to get a job.

In the Great Depression of the 1930s, the unemployment rate was much worse, but the federal government under President Franklin D. Roosevelt took action, Many agencies were established to provide work, such as the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Works Progress Administration, the Public Works Administration and the National Youth Administration. Forests were planted, parks were created and improved by young men in the CCC. The members of the CCC were provided with food, clothing, shelter and medical care. They earned $25 a month; $20 of this was sent home to needy families, and they had $5 a month to spend on liberty in town. In the Great Depression, $5 bought a lot.

I was a student going to college and had a part-time job under the NYA. I retyped a history professor’s manuscript for a book.

Let’s have another New Deal.

Comments

Liberty_One 6 years, 6 months ago

Actually it was Hoover, not FDR, that first came up with the "stimulus" and public works programs. Economists warned that this would make the depression worse and last longer than it otherwise would have been. All other economic depressions (panics, as they used to be called) in US history prior to the Great Depression were handled similarly: laissez-faire. They generally lasted only a year or so. Hoover bragged during his campaign that he had undergone the biggest attempt in history by the government to "fix" the problem--his attempt had failed. FDR actually campaigned against what Hoover was doing.

All the above are indisputable facts. Another New Deal will do exactly what the old one did: extend the depression out for many more years. What is needed is to cut spending and balance the budget. The government is the cause--not the cure--of our economic woes.

Sources: America's Great Depression http://mises.org/resources/694/Americas-Great-Depression Economic Depressions: Their Cause and Cure http://mises.org/resources/2668/Economic-Depressions-Their-Cause-and-Cure History of Money and Banking in the United States: The Colonial Era to World War II http://mises.org/resources/1022/History-of-Money-and-Banking-in-the-United-States-The-Colonial-Era-to-World-War-II

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 6 months ago

"All the above are indisputable facts."

Well, of course they are. Everything you read on mises.org is a fact. And that's just a fact (you can trust LO on that.)

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 6 months ago

A bit sarcastic, perhaps, but "vile invective?"

At any rate, the "facts" you posted were more notable for what they didn't say than what they did say.

camper 6 years, 6 months ago

Liberty, I can dispute much of the above. I'm not sure I went to spend the time doing so though. It is a nice day out there man. But I will say that the depression and the New Deal is a much debated subject without any absolute answers.

Ron Holzwarth 6 years, 6 months ago

Herbert Hoover's autobiography was one of the most interesting books I have ever read. But, it is rather long.

Jimo 6 years, 6 months ago

"All the above are indisputable facts."

ROFL. Your "facts" have already been "disputed" yet you continue to put forward -- Bachmann like -- the same lies unconcerned that the world laughs - and then ignores you.

No one, outside of the intellectual masterbaters of the Mises Institute and their ilk, buy such crap. They have to do so, of course, because they'd otherwise have to join the world of reality and throw away their snakeoil.

voevoda 6 years, 6 months ago

Because anything mises.org posts is of dubious reliability, I took advantage of an opportunity to check Liberty_One's assertion in the reputable materials contained in the KU Library. No article published in a reputable academic journal makes any mention of Hoover coming up "with the 'stimulus' and public works programs." Most historians of economics agree that the New Deal helped the country cope with the effects of the depression. They divide on whether the New Deal efforts lengthened the time to recovery, but they agree that the governmental efforts substantially lessened the suffering of the poor in the interim.

voevoda 6 years, 6 months ago

Liberty_One, I base my opinion of mises.org based on its content. It espouses crackpot theories that no reputable specialists endorse. You cannot judge Herbert Hoover's accomplishments from his political speeches. They are totally unreliable as to the speaker's actual record. The same for memoirs, which are necessarily self-justifying. Try surveying the bills he actually sent to Congress. I did. Try reading his own book, American Ideals Versus the New Deal (New York: Scribners, 1936). It is uncivil of you to call names, Liberty_One. Only persons who don't have the facts on their side need to resort to insults. So I must suppose that this is your ungracious way of conceding the argument. I will make this point every time you call another poster names, Liberty_One.

cato_the_elder 6 years, 6 months ago

One of the most pervasive political myths in existence is that Roosevelt's New Deal rescued the country from the Great Depression. Roosevelt's New Deal policies actually prolonged the Great Depression for seven years:

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx

It was not Roosevelt's New Deal policies, but fighting and winning World War II that resulted in America's emergence from the Great Depression as the greatest economic power in the world.

Jimo 6 years, 6 months ago

This from the fool who said "The notion that the Bush administration is responsible for the state of our economy when Obama took over is the biggest lie promulgated by the Hard Left in my lifetime."

cato_the_elder 6 years, 6 months ago

And this is from Jimo the Marxist fool who said, "The only feudalism we have in America is the concentration of the nation's wealth in the hands of a few."

Richard Heckler 6 years, 6 months ago

Brownback is not a friend to the majority of taxpayers. Sam loves corporate welfare coming from OUR tax dollars while at the same time demonizing government and tax dollars.

Sam takes his advice from the Koch brothers,Grover Norquist and the Waltons(Wal-Mart money) all who believe most Americans should be working for less money and no benefits. We must remember Wal-Mart makes sure the majority of their employees know the way to SRS benefits funded by OUR tax dollars.

Sam Brownback has never created millions of jobs which is the only way to sensible new economic growth. His tax talk is nothing but nonsense,will not create jobs and only opens more doors to corporate welfare. The receivers of corporate welfare donate to his political campaigns.

Sam loves his government pay checks,retirement plans and medical coverage coming from OUR tax dollars while at the same time demonizing government and tax dollars. Was he ever successful at a real job?

Richard Heckler 6 years, 6 months ago

Sam Brownback of the RINO party are the most reckless spenders in USA history = easily documented.

What do Brownback, Reagan/Bush and Bush/Cheney have in common over and above being RINO's?

Both administrations have massive home loan scandals under their belts both which cost taxpayers trillions upon trillions of dollars,millions of jobs,lost homes,lost retirement plans and lost medical insurance. What did Brownback do to stop this crime or how did Brownback alert Kansans?

Most do not know Bush,Cheney and Paulson lied to the nation and congress about how many financial institutions were going under? There were only three: Bank of America,Citicorp/Citibank and AIG or ALG . Why did they ask for $700 billion? One of the biggest lies perpetrated on America.

Richard Heckler 6 years, 6 months ago

The Congressional Progressive Caucus People's Budget proposal:

This is the bill for America! http://www.pdamerica.org/get-informed/view/critical-vote-on-the-peoples-budget-scheduled-for-9-am-tomorrow/

This is the only budget that does everything this country needs:

* Creates good-paying jobs
* Fully maintains our social safety net
* Invests in education
* Ends our costly wars
* Closes the tax loopholes that have made offshoring jobs profitable
* Ends oil and gas subsidies that pollute our country at taxpayer expense
* Creates a national infrastructure investment bank to help us make intelligent investments for the future

This budget represents the future we believe in as Americans! This is one of those occasions we all hope we'll live to see: We really can make a difference if we speak up loudly with one voice.

The People's Budget represents not just common sense; it represents the will of the American people. JOBS JOBS JOBS

The People's Budget is getting attention, but it won't hold that attention unless we speak up about how important our values really are. These aren't just words on a page or numbers in a table—these dollars and cents mean lives helped or hurt, people succeeding or falling by the wayside, and families lifted up or dragged down.

This is about America.

What the Peoples Budget does very specifically:

http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=70&sectiontree=5,70

http://www.npr.org/2011/04/15/135435883/the-nation-obama-should-fight-for-peoples-budget

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/14/while_obama_touts_compromise_with_gop

http://www.thenation.com/blog/159939/fighting-peoples-budget

Jimo 6 years, 6 months ago

Let me guess, the stimulus was a "failure" too? ROFL Anything is true if the Propaganda Channel repeats it often enough.

Jimo 6 years, 6 months ago

You can tell it's bad when the GOP doesn't rush to credit extending the Bush tax cuts for the glimmer of good news.

10 months of extended Bush tax cuts. Still no jobs.

9 months of Tea Party Congress. Still not a single jobs bill passed. Or even a proposal that wouldn't destroy jobs by the millions.

2 years of half-hearted stimulus .... 2 years of half-hearted recovery. 1 year of Tea Party quackery and 1 year of things getting worse. How long can you survive until the Tea Party is sent packing, GOP obstructionism is ended, and we can get serious about growing our way out of this Republican Depression? (And putting the Republican Banksters in jail?)

Flap Doodle 6 years, 6 months ago

Forget the people's budget! Read thepeoplescube! thepeoplescube = much more reality based than any site merrill links to.

"Responding to Oslo shootings, Obama declares Christianity "Religion of Peace," praises "moderate Christians," promises to send one into space"

http://thepeoplescube.com/

(from a source)

Getaroom 6 years, 6 months ago

The article is just fine, it is that so many of the responses are like listening to Brownbackward talking points. Yuck!

voevoda 6 years, 6 months ago

The people I grew up blessed the New Deal for providing them with paid work that benefited our country when they couldn't find any employment and there was literally no food in the house. These were honest, hard-working, patriotic people. The New Deal programs provided them with a chance to get through the hard times, go on to private-sector jobs, support their families and educate their children. Their children went on to support themselves and their families so that no one in subsequent generations needed public assistance.
The New Deal was a very successful program. It's a good idea again.

independent_rebel 6 years, 6 months ago

It's not surprising we don't know our own history, considering the fluff passed off for history in our public schools so that every culture has equal time.

There are HUGE differences between what plagued our country during the depression in the 1930s and what we are facing today--the most important being the citizens involved.

The number one and number two problems facing our country today is one) the entitlement society, and, two) corporate loopholes.

Back in the Great Depression, it was personally shameful to "go on government relief." Almost everyone who went on relief felt embarrassed. This was a country of workers. If you didn't have money you fed your family off the land, or were provided food via other family and friends. You didn't ask the government to steal money from your neighbors in order for you to get free food, and you sure as hell didn't EXPECT and DEMAND the government provide food (or housing, schooling, medicine, etc.) for you. You usually repaid your friends and family for their kindness via helping them (or the community) with hard work. Often, those who went on relief for a short time paid back the government for the help the relief provided once they got back on their own two feet. For those of you mooching on unemployment insurance because you won't take a job "beneath" you and therefore choose to remain unemployed, are you willing to pay the rest of us back once you find a job? Thought not.

Society is different today. Back then, people truly asked, but with embarrasment, for a hand-up. Today, don't be fooled. People want a hand-out, and they have no shame about demanding it.

Immigrants, back in that day, arrived here to work. They assimilated to our language. None arrived to mooch. While I admire the hard work illegal immigrants do, there are miilions of capable unemployed US citizens who could do the same job but choose not to do so, or can't because the illegals will do it on the cheep. I agree that this has a lot to do with the awful business owners who employ the illegals, but that is another topic. The sad fact is that there are also many millions more illegals who do mooch, who do take advantage of the entitlements.

Don't be fooled. This is not New Deal II.

verity 6 years, 6 months ago

Has anyone else noticed that recently quite a few new posters who are virulently anti-progressive have appeared? They hysterically scream against anything that is to the left of Ayn Rand and that won't take us back to the dark ages. A case in point is the vicious attacks on Elizabeth Warren, who is fighting for us, the common people, against the people whose greed and corruption has wrecked our economy. They have completely twisted her words beyond recognition to try to discredit one of the most sensible people around.

These posters accuse people who disagree with them and point out flaws in their reasoning and their lack of facts of not having jobs. They insist that all the unemployed are entitled moochers who don't want to work.

Anyone else wonder if the Kochs might be bankrolling this? There certainly seems to be a frantic fear behind it. Some of the Koch's secret endeavors and attempts to undermine the democratic process are being exposed.

verity 6 years, 6 months ago

"When the facts don't agree with your ideology, the dogmatic true-believer denies the facts and inserts his own." L_O in a whole blog dedicated to a nasty rant against another commenter---apparently not realizing that he is describing himself.

From my observations of Elizabeth Warren, she is extremely intelligent, very stable, tells things the way they are and is certainly the farthest thing from hate-filled. Why does that scare you so much?

I am breaking my own rule here for being civil, but your hate-filled ideology gets to be a little much at times.

verity 6 years, 6 months ago

By the way, I agree entirely with the letter writer.

greywolf85203 6 years, 6 months ago

In order to "balance" the budget govenment needs to look at their own pay. Do they really work harder than a teacher who is teaching a class of 30 plus students now because of their cuts to education? Hmmmm its very simple what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Cut government paychecks down, remove benefits from them, they are no better than we are, they work no harder than we do there for they should have equal pay!

voevoda 6 years, 6 months ago

Do the teachers that give the best "show," lightest assignments, and highest grades get the most students and thus the highest pay? Do those who teach popular subjects get higher pay, even if they give their students an inaccurate version of the subject? Teaching real academic subjects shouldn't be evaluated like "American Idol." There will always be subjects that are essential to our country's well-being, require teachers with high levels of knowledge, but will have few students--such as pharmaceutical chemistry. By your model, all these subjects will disappear from curriculum: nobody with talent will invest the time and funds to prepare to teach such subjects when they will be paid only a pittance in exchange. Completely equal pay might not be a good idea, but pure supply-and-demand would destroy the quality of education.

Steve Jacob 6 years, 6 months ago

2011-2012 is like 1936-1937. We spent a lot of money to dig out of a big hole, but it was such a big hole, the recovery was not very big. But in 1936 we jacked up taxes to pay for what we spent, and hurt the economy more.

In summery, we are stuck. We can't raise the deficit much more, we can't raise taxes because the economy is flat, so without any more "revenue" coming in, we will not create any more jobs.

Mike Ford 6 years, 6 months ago

hey math, we'd be speaking chinese due to the dimwit dubya you probably voted for who thought it was prudent to borrow from China instead of raising taxes to pay for wars like previous presidents have. It amazes me how a dummy can fool dummies into supporting wars at China's expense and then blame the next guy... some people have the attention span of flies....oh well....spout some revisionist hyperbole from the eighties....you've got the gipper's script right?

lunacydetector 6 years, 6 months ago

WWII got us out of the Great Depression, and true unemployment numbers today 23.1% are almost in line with the 25% the US experienced back then.

source: www.shadowstats.com

the obama regime has orchestrated a huge lie for the sheeple to swallow.

Carol Bowen 6 years, 6 months ago

The unemployment index has changed over the years, so it is not possible to compare even 1980 to now. I think the last time it was changed, federal civilian employees(a significant number of people) were added to the mix. The unemployment statistic dropped from about 13% to 6.5% in 6 months because of the change in calculation. I believe that happened during Reagan's first term. My rule of thumb has been to double the rate to compare to pre-1980. I have not tried to go back further.

From the Department of Labor Statistics website, www.dls.gov,

"Persons are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work." The data is and always has been collected using survey methods.

bearded_gnome 6 years, 6 months ago

Let’s have another New Deal.

---let's not! what actually ended the great depression was WWII. unemployment was still bad in 1937-1940. then it was tailing off because of export war production, called "lend lease."

no, we do not need another "new deal" or bigger government. government is the problem now:

*Obamaregs are stifling employment.

*Obama has dramatically increased employers' uncertainty, so they now keep their money close to their vests.

*Obama has already dramatically increased the costs of hiring each new worker.

*Obama's massive debt is beginning to stifle investment and growth.

no, no thanks.

Mike Ford 6 years, 6 months ago

let's see President Obama wins by a lot in 2008...the gop is licking it's wounds... my ex grandfather is talking about his stupid tea bag without realizing the prison use of the word. The country feels like it's on the tip of Niagara Falls economically...the bank bailout stabilizes the banks and the car loans put GM and Chrysler in a point to survive which they are now doing. The GOP has nothing but failed policies to offer and President Obama wisely ignores them and the GOP with the exception of a Vietnamese representative from New Orleans decides to vote for nothing of Mr. Obama's plans. The GOP plan is to stall and malign. Then the tea party comes out terrorizing town hall meetings and yelling malarky and sending out dimwits like the blonde woman in Arkansas who wants her country back... which country is that you ask....the racist one of the past??? au contrere.... Tell me signs with the president as an ape or a witch doctor aren't racist.... please tell me what I saw with my own two eyes in a yard in Baldwin City wasn't racist...then Democrats were looking out for as many people as they could with the health care bill while the GOP was saying "I got mine screw you" which is basically what the one percent are saying now and Michael Milken and Neal Bush said 24 years ago. President Obama hasn't done that much wrong except think that this country was going to move beyond it's racist class based past...on that he was very wrong and I witness this fact many times on these postings....you all haven't done anything for the country except throw as much mud and as many inferences as possible so that you can win and get this country back on it's pre 2008 path of destruction. All that the Jeffrey Katsis attorney had to go against the health care bill at the Lied Center the other night was a bunch of hot air and inferences. All of the opposition I see on here is hot air and inferences... where's the beef????

Mike Ford 6 years, 6 months ago

you've been smoking the whole time.....if corporate profits are at an all time high why did this happen because the banks refused to trickle down like the dumblicans advocate...because the bank bailouts prevented a bigger mess from happening and if you know so much about failures like hoover you should know what a big mess is right? you didn't refute much else I said so I guess you take pot shots like you're known to do right???

Mike Ford 6 years, 6 months ago

of course I mean the big banks.....people of your ilk don't sweat the small people anyway right??? short memory...remember S & L scandal of 1987 I do.... on Reagan's watch doesn't count right?

Mike Ford 6 years, 6 months ago

Naw I have facts that your fox network thought programming network doesn't agree with so the miracles will never occur due to your stubborn idiocy......little banks fail because they have to keep up with the big banks....why...no regulations... who doesn't want regulations.....please don't look in the mirror....

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