Letters to the Editor

God’s way

October 4, 2011

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To the editor:

Mayor Aron Cromwell said, “This is not about morality. It is about discrimination” in reference to the recent City Commission approval of an ordinance on transgender discrimination. Of course, no one should be singled out for special disfavor. However, there is a difference between behavior and a person created in the image of God.

Jesus’ central message was “Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand.” Repent means to turn from doing things our way to doing things God’s way. God made us male and female. He didn’t intend for us to try and change what He knew what was best for us. Jesus accepted everyone but He didn’t accept everyone’s behavior. “Go and sin no more” was His message to the woman caught in adultery; “Sell all you have and give to the poor” for the Rich Young Ruler. He knew exactly what was needed for a person to get right with God.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Wanting to be different, other than the way God created us, is not the right solution for a person. It’s repenting and living a life empowered by God though the Holy Spirit. To quote A.C. McAulay, “God made you as you are in order to use you as He planned.”

Comments

rockchalker52 3 years, 8 months ago

That is the nicest intolerant letter I have ever read.

Ron Holzwarth 3 years, 8 months ago

Matthew 7 [1] "Judge not, that you be not judged."

Luke.6 [37] "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;"

beatrice 3 years, 8 months ago

Aren't you new to these boards? How do you know who the regulars are and what their posting practices are? You wouldn't be a returned person who has been banned from this site on multiple occassions now, would you?

Seriously LJWorld, when you flush, sometimes you have to flush again, otherwise you don't know what might come floating back to the surface. It is beginning to stink like a backed up sewer from Linwood around here -- again! What is the point of banning someone if you just allow them right back on under another name? Once and for all, flush this trash (and trash isn't the word I wanted to use).

beatrice 3 years, 8 months ago

Are you asking about this incarnation, or previous incarnations?

So what happened, lose the job?

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

I hope you'll do the same.

In my experience, conservatives on these boards often make things personal, intrusive and insulting.

I have no problem with your wanting bea not to do that, as long as you also refrain from it, and find it distasteful when conservatives do it as well as liberals.

beatrice 3 years, 8 months ago

If you have an issue with anything I post, there is a little button that allows you to "suggest removal." Someone will then look at the apparently offending post -- and possibly the post in which it was responding -- and will then decide whether or not to remove any, or all.

Who knows, they may even ban people from taking part in this forum. Shall we begin having the censors taking a look at posts?

Liberty275 3 years, 8 months ago

B, you are better than bickering about electronic reincarnation and mods.

Liberty275 3 years, 7 months ago

Lets argue about interesting stuff, not just worrying about who is who. Or we can agree about something.

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

Yep. Now blast me with a string of name-calling. It will apparently make you feel good.

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

One more thing, at least I try to be civil. Sure, sometimes I might go over the line - especially with those who are obviously former banned posters who have returned under new names - but the attempt to not insult and give personal attacks is there. How about you? Can you say that about your own posts, or do you routinely fall into attack mode almost instantly and start throwing out silly names like a schoolyard bully because someone thinks about things differently than you?

So call me a hypocrit all you want. Considering the source, it honestly has as much weight as the dozens of other names you have called people around here.

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

More name calling. I expect as much. The debate skills of a third grader is all you have. How remarkably sad. You call yourself a Christian and have the gall to call others hypocrits? Sure, real Christ-like you are. Too funny.

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

I wouldn't know who the liberal re-treads are, but my thoughts on the matter would be absolutely the same. It is a shame that the LJWorld continues to allow people of any political leaning to come back on again and again after they have been removed.

I'm now curious why this particular topic seems to bother you so. Hitting a little too close to home, perhaps?

gogoplata 3 years, 8 months ago

Adam was the original creation. Ex nihilo (Something out of nothing). He created Eve from Adam. Mankind is descended from that original creation that was male and female.

jilldavidson 3 years, 8 months ago

Well, that is the Eve creation story in Genesis 2:20-22; but how do you handle the other Eve creation story in Genesis 1:27: "God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." ? Sounds like in that version Eve and Adam were created at the same time, and not Eve from Adam. Or you could interpret it that we all as individuals have male and female natures.

Embryology bears this out. There is a male reproductive system (the Wollfian duct) and a female reproductive system (the Mullerian duct), present in nearly all fetuses six weeks after conception. A cascade of events happen that triggers the male system to develop and the female system to atrophy by 10 weeks after conception in most infants born male, and the opposite in most infants born female. But in up to 3% of infants, the suppression of one system or the other is incomplete, and the child has ambiguous genitalia. "Male and female he created them".

gogoplata 3 years, 8 months ago

It's like looking at a globe vs looking at a map of Kansas. Lawrence does not show up on the globe but that doesn't mean it isn't there. The Genesis chapter 2 account just has more details.
Even if it was Eve from Adam it wouldn't contradict the embryology you are talking about.

Ron Holzwarth 3 years, 8 months ago

"the Eve creation story in Genesis 2:20-22; but how do you handle the other Eve creation story in Genesis 1:27: "

(Warning: The following is the Reform Judaic point of view.)

The answer to that is very simple. They were written by different writers. The first creation myth was written by a man, and the second by a woman. There apparently were a few different writers of the Torah, and about 2,700 years ago a redactor put the documents all together into the five books that we have today.

It's rather apparent from the choice of words used, especially for the several names used for G-d, that about five different writers wrote the first five books of the Bible.

If one writer had written all of the Torah, the five books of Moses, that is, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, you would think that he would have consistently used the same name for G-d. But that's not the case.

But, in any translation from Hebrew that distinction won't show at all. It's necessary to look at the original Hebrew text to see that.

Amy Albright 3 years, 8 months ago

If God created people who feel like they're not in the right body and God also just happened to create doctors and medical means to fix that then what's the problem?

esteshawk 3 years, 8 months ago

If god had intended man to fly, he would have given him wings.

esteshawk 3 years, 8 months ago

Just trying to point out the absurdity of the writers "argument."

jhawkinsf 3 years, 8 months ago

I was on the fence there, wondering if your comment was sarcastic or not. The lack of a capital "g" should have been a clue. :-)

esteshawk 3 years, 8 months ago

Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion. Sorry Mr B, but a little thing known as the US Constitution means the gov cannot be used to enforce your ancient myths.

Kathy Roberts 3 years, 8 months ago

Therre is nothing like a purist to point out the problem with fundamentalism. There are no words in the Bible against slavery and yet, we have grown beyond it. Bondage of the human spirit, either by enslaving the body or legitimizing prejudice with dogma, will never stand. We are light seekers. When we are faced with the opportunity for compassion, most of us extend grace, realizing we cannot know the true heart of another, just their circumstance. Every judgement we make is just a mirror to see our own self-loathing. It's ok. Our difference are our greatest strength.

verity 3 years, 8 months ago

"I am a looney, liberal, socialist, progressive, communist, pinko.....thinker"

Damn, Autie, you left out leftist, activist, emotional lemming sycophant of Obama, soviet lover, radical, anti-patriot, atheist, Kool-Aid drinker, anti-family, marxist, pan-Leninist, extremist---you're probably a feminazi also. Have I left anything out?

(Sorry, I just couldn't resist.)

;~P (Did I get that right? I'm not good with these things.)

lamb 3 years, 8 months ago

Thank you Carl! That was very well put!!

mom_of_three 3 years, 8 months ago

well put....oh, you are serious?? discriminating against a sector of society because they are different has been an issue in this country for a large number of years...we are getting past that now. What is so wrong with that? Tolerance is what keeps us going. Intolerance will get us no where.

jaywalker 3 years, 8 months ago

So what are conjoined twins, Carl? The Lord's practical joke? Or is he just trying to keep traveling side shows in business? Mighty thoughtful. The world is what you make of it. Unfortunately it seems to many wish to make it the land of the pig-headed. How is it possible in this day and age that someone still can't grasp that homosexuality and gender confusion MUST be part of "God's plan" as well? They WERE made in God's image, too, Mr. Burkhead. Please wake up and smell the enlightenment.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 8 months ago

What nonsense! Of course it is not about morality. Morality cannot be legislated.

What an intolerant interpretation of what God might be thinking. No one knows what God might be thinking. Anybody who thinks they are capable of knowing what God might be thinking is probably not right. For God is not here to address this situation.

How many times has the bible been revised?

Abdu Omar 3 years, 8 months ago

Well Merrill, the Bible isn't the only book. God sent other books too, you know. There were the Psalms of David, songs sent to him to praise God himself. There was the Torah, which now is known as the old testament. Then there is the writings of Jesus that were lost, because no one believed in him until he dissapeared, and then the revelation to Muhammad, the Quran. So there are 4 books. Read them all and see which one(s) seem truthful, not revised, and doesn't counterdict its self.

Ron Holzwarth 3 years, 8 months ago

You forgot the book of Mormon.

And, the Torah is only the first five books of the Old Testament.

Liberty275 3 years, 7 months ago

"What nonsense! Of course it is not about morality. Morality cannot be legislated. "

See, when you don't cut and paste taking points, you get stuff right.

"How many times has the bible been revised?"

You can tell when the bible is being revised because you'll see the spiritual leader's lips moving.

somedude20 3 years, 8 months ago

< is waiting for proof of this god and that it made me as I thought my parents had a hand in it (maybe more than a hand). See I was told that sperm and egg (sunny side up of course) was the reason I am alive (thanks for the free rent mom! love ya) and I look like my parents to boot so....... Since old J-rock is white, I am thinking that WASP man designed jesus and god in his image

imastinker 3 years, 8 months ago

If you think your God is the only God and your beliefs are the right ones, you will be able to pass your agenda as long as you are a majority in this country. Unfortunately, something like 40% of the world is Muslim and have beliefs I disagree very strongly with. We are the minority here!

I think I'll side with the constitution on this one and stick with freedom of religion and the bill of rights. I'll support gay folks getting married because it means I get to practice my religion freely too!

We don't get to pick and choose what freedom is. Your idea of a religious Utopia as government isn't mine and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to force your ideas on other people.

Abdu Omar 3 years, 8 months ago

"Unfortunately, something like 40% of the world is Muslim and have beliefs I disagree very strongly with."

So, Your a stinker, what are the things you don't agree strongly with? The belief that God is one God? Tell me, I am anxious to know. Of course the things you disagree with are proven to be in the Quran, are they not?

imastinker 3 years, 8 months ago

If you read what I wrote I was supporting the freedom of religion without oppression. This country has a christian majority, but it's not destined to last. The only way to protect this for everyone is to attack when folks try to dilute our constitution, even if we agree with the message.

Liberty275 3 years, 7 months ago

"The only way to protect this for everyone is to attack when folks try to dilute our constitution, even if we agree with the message. "

I like that sentence.

gl0ck0wn3r 3 years, 8 months ago

I'd like to quote Slayer and point out that "god hates us all."

Just kidding, god is flying around on his unicorn waving his magic wand helping out football teams of his choice.

mcvey 3 years, 8 months ago

The grossest part of the religious right's opposition to adding 'gender identity' as a protected class is that CHURCHES ARE EXCLUDED! Please, keep posting your insane religious rhetoric - you people are proving that your type of religion is for the feeble minded.

Grant_Runyun 3 years, 8 months ago

So I guess the author thinks schizophreniacs shouldn't be medicated, and nobody should ever get an organ transplant. Corrective lenses and hearing aids must be the work of Satan. Baby born prematurely? No incubator or breathing tube, unless you want God to be angry. Never seek medical treatment or psychological therapy for anything. God made us all exactly the way he wants us.

deec 3 years, 8 months ago

If we are going to exclude people from constitutional protection because we think they are practicing a behavioral choice, then the protection of religion should be removed from the constitution as well. After all, one's choice of brand of religion is just that, a behavioral choice.

ivalueamerica 3 years, 8 months ago

As a Christian, I find great sadness and sorrow in the distorted message of a judgment and discrimination presented on behalf of Christianity as presented by Mr. Burkhead. I will pray for his salvation and healing.

Anunnaki 3 years, 8 months ago

There we saw those great men, the sons of Anak, offspring of the Nephilim: and we seemed to ourselves no more than insects, and so we seemed to them. Numbers 13:33.

Jimo 3 years, 8 months ago

I am tempted to tell you to take your bigotry and shove it where the sun (or is it son?) don't shine.

I'll instead lament your ham-fisted attempt to rally Jesus to your agenda of hatred. There's a special corner of hell for people like you, Mr. Burkhead.

ivalueamerica 3 years, 8 months ago

you are offering a very false statement. Jimo is not criticizing because of the faith, he is criticizing because the man us using his faith to cast judgment, a contra-indication of faith. To promote exclusion, a contra-indication of faith and to be Pius, a contra-indication of faith.

He is NOT showing bigotry for faith, he is showing disgust for disingenuous and hypocritical behavior in the name of faith. A HUGE difference,

To claim to be a victim of religious discrimination is false.

grammaddy 3 years, 8 months ago

Anybody have any other fairy tales they'd like to share?

beatrice 3 years, 8 months ago

I am sure the letter writer is just as upset when he sees people wearing glasses to correct their vision. They were born that way, supposedly in "God's image," so who are they to correct the way god wanted them to view the world?

Thank goodness we live in a society that doesn't base its laws on a restrictive and narrow religious point of view.

geekin_topekan 3 years, 8 months ago

Or clothing for that matter.

Not that I want to see Carl nekked or anything.

deec 3 years, 8 months ago

Freedom of speech and freedom of (from) religion..isn't our constitution grand? Some want to preserve those freedoms, and some want them only to apply to their particular brand of religion.

jonas_opines 3 years, 8 months ago

Lol.

"You live a sinful existence, and your behavior is wrong! My religion says so!"

"There's no reason for me to believe that because there's no reason to believe, other than desire, that your religion is correct."

"Quit disrespecting my way of life!"

beatrice 3 years, 8 months ago

Nobody is bashing anyone for "sharing his faith." Instead, people are criticizing the letter writer's position for being pro-descrimination, which he supports by indicating he knows god's intent.

Party of Atheists? Which party would that be?

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

How do you explain the 77% of black Protestants if it's the "Godless Democratic Party" - wouldn't they choose not to belong if that were true?

Also, I'm not sure 60-65% is "heavily" - it's not even 2/3.

beatrice 3 years, 8 months ago

jafs, trying to make a point with Tom is like ... well ... trying to make a point with Tom.

mom_of_three 3 years, 8 months ago

In the 17th century or now? Because now, I think they would be a little more open minded than the letter writer.

esteshawk 3 years, 8 months ago

Anti American? Just because someone is an aethiest does not mean they are anti American any more than it means they are amoral. What is anti American is trying to use government to advance ones own religion at the expense of others.

Corey Williams 3 years, 8 months ago

Yep, shut them up if you don't agree with them. That's the way we do things in 'merica. Yessir. Don't need no dissent here by golly.

hujiko 3 years, 8 months ago

What right do you have to discriminate against anyone because they are different than yourself?? I disagree with your premise that being anti-God amounts to being anti-American. I love this country just as much as you do, without our Constitution I would not have the right voice my opinion and neither would you. Our forefathers designed this country with the idea of free discourse and equality for all.

As much as I wholly disagree with everything you have written, I will defend your right to say it. Regardless the content or the topic of an LTE, I will defend the right for it to be published.

Please offer the same respect.

thebigspoon 3 years, 7 months ago

Gee whiz, baa, just exactly where in any of this do you see the writer, as a person, being bashed? The point si that he is hiding his prejudices and dislike of some fellow humans behind a facade of Christian, i.e., moral, belief. There is no place here for person-bashing, but the writer has opened himself to a whole raft of idea-bashing simply by stating the obvious point that he has no use for a country that would treat humans as humans and get on with it. Bashing? No. Opinion dislike and debate, quite surely.

esteshawk 3 years, 8 months ago

Its not "sharing" when you want the gov. to enforce your prejudicial beliefs on others. Is it really that hard to understand?

ivalueamerica 3 years, 8 months ago

clearly another dishonest statement and false witness.

The man is NOT being bashed for being a Christian, the man is being bashed for promoting exclusion, bigotry, but very anti Christian values.

It so clear to me that you would not know what constitutes religious discrimination since you so falsely claim it to be religious discrimination when people reject discrimination in the name of religion.

I suggest you go back to the Bible and read it because you fail so badly and trying to represent it.

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

And, apparently, an even greater proportion of black Protestants.

According to the above post, 77% of black Protestants are Democratic, while 60-65% of atheists/agnostics are.

By the way, there are somewhat more choices than right-wing Christian or atheist.

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

I have no idea.

Because the Democratic party is composed of a variety of people, with a variety of beliefs, including, apparently, many black Protestants.

And, again, there are more choices for Americans than being a right-wing Christian or being an atheist.

Also, who are you calling "left"? My father-in-law, a committed liberal, might not agree with you, given the amount of disagreement and debate he and I engage in on a regular basis.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

I'm not sure I'd agree that Jesus' central message was as the author states.

Jesus preached many things, according to the Gospels, including "Seek first the Kingdom of Heaven", "Give no thought to the morrow", forgiveness, grace, etc.

jonas_opines 3 years, 8 months ago

And Aule offered up his children, the dwarves, to Iluvatar and said: "I had but thought to make life that thought, and spoke and sang, but the son may make imitation of the father without thought of mockery, because he is the son of the father. I offer now my children to thee, but would it not be better that I destroy them, the fruits of my folly?" and, weeping, he raised his great hammer, and the dwarves shrank from it in fear.

But Iluvatar spoke: "Your plea was accepted even as you made it, and see you, that these things, made by your hand, now have a life and mind of their own? Else they'd not have shied from your hammer. But I will not suffer this, that they should come before the children of my design, in the passage of time. And I fear that ever strife may come between thy children and mine, the children of my adoption and the children of my choice."

JRR Tolkein -- The Silmarillion

I like his story better

gogoplata 3 years, 8 months ago

I don't understand the need for hate/discrimination crimes. If I intentionally kill someone does it really matter outside of self defense what my motive is?

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

That's an interesting question.

I sort of agree, but I understand that after WWII and the Holocaust, people felt that there were some crimes, like attempted genocide, that were worse than simple murder.

gogoplata 3 years, 8 months ago

I can see how the scale of the murder(s) makes things worse but not the motive.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

Well, let's say I get into a fight in a bar, and it escalates, and I wind up killing somebody, not having intended it when the fight began.

Isn't it worse if I and some friends go out, find a gay person, and beat them to death for being gay?

I know I'm mixing a couple of things there.

Jason Bowers-Chaika 3 years, 8 months ago

A crime against a person who is not in a protected class is not generally a crime that is intended to have an intimidation or chilling effect on a whole class of persons. For example, when someone burns a cross in someone's yard it isn't only arson. It is a crime against the whole community that is now terrorized by the action.

gogoplata 3 years, 8 months ago

All individuals are protected under our constitution.
No new laws, just follow the constitution.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

I know - that's why I said I was mixing a couple of things.

Abdu Omar 3 years, 8 months ago

It is said that "if you murder a person, it is as if you have murdered all of mankind". How powerful is that?

jilldavidson 3 years, 8 months ago

Can you cite where that is from? There is a statement in the Talmud, which is often translated that "If you save a person's life, it's as if you saved the whole world" - that sounds like the mirror image.

There are some murders that are worse than others. Someone who orders the murder of 10,000,000 people, even develops a bureaucracy for doing it, is usually thought worse than someone who kills one person by manslaughter.

jilldavidson 3 years, 8 months ago

Yes it does. If you kill me over an argument we have in a bar, that is not the same as if you kill me because I am transgender, or because I am Jewish. If it's clear you killed me because I'm Jewish, that sends terror throughout the community of Jewish people - you'd could be coming for them next. People may be so scared they stay in their homes, their lives restricted. Non-Jewish people wouldn't have the same feeling of being a target - they wouldn't have the same level of fear. Hate crimes are crimes against an entire community of people, not just one person. In communities with hate crime laws, the finding of a hate crime is usually an extension of the sentence to reflect the worse effect of the crime. Any murder is horrible, and any single murder may be motivated by hate, but that doesn't make it a hate crime, unless the murderer was targeting a community of people.

Abdu Omar 3 years, 8 months ago

How many times have you read on these blogs to bomb the whole Middle East or kill the Muslims? "Muslims go home." as if Muslims are all foreigners. I am not, I was born and raised in the USA and even fought in a war for the USA as did my dad and grand dad. So where do I go if I go home? To Iowa? That is part of the USA now, didn't you know. Murdering one person is a crime and can be a hate crime. Just like they are doing in Palestine. Killing people, Christian and Muslim Palestinians, because they are in the way of a complete Israeli take over of that area. This is called "ethnic cleansing". This is a hate crime, is it not? Hating the Jews because they are Jews is foolish. Hating Muslims because they are Muslim is the same. Killing either one because they are what they are is a hate crime. When will mankind see that because you are who you are does not make those who aren't bad or should be an act of discrimination?

yourworstnightmare 3 years, 8 months ago

Mr. Burkhead has proven once again that religion has absolutely nothing to do with morality and right and wrong.

Indeed, religion is most usually in opposition to morality and right versus wrong.

Thank you, god, for your healing gift of religion....

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

One more thought - the story about the woman caught in adultery seems rather different to me than the letter writer's conclusion.

A woman caught in adultery is brought before Jesus, and a crowd is gathered with stones, ready to stone her to death (where is her partner, by the way, who is also guilty of adultery?). Jesus looks at the crowd and says "he among you who is without sin cast the first stone" or words similar to that. After a time, when nobody has thrown a stone, he says "nobody condemns you? Then I don't condemn you either. Go and sin no more" or something similar.

It's pretty clear to me that the main message of the story is that righteous indignation and judgement are not warranted, given human beings' propensity for sin (my version - flawed and imperfect). And, it's also interesting that Jesus himself, whom many believe to be wholly without sin, doesn't condemn the woman either.

Those who condemn homosexuality, etc. are more like the people in the story with stones than Jesus, in my opinion.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

He told her that, at the very end of the story. Whether that is a "command" is open to discussion and interpretation, of course.

Do you disagree with my general take on it? If so, why? And, why focus on the last sentence and disregard the vast majority of it?

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

It's nice to basically agree on something, since that happens fairly infrequently.

I tend to think of Jesus as a teacher, helper, guide, healer, etc. rather than as a commander.

Abdu Omar 3 years, 8 months ago

Homosexuality is a different kind of sin. God made man to impregnate a woman and that is the primal reason for sexual relations. However, if all men were homosexual and all women were homosexual, how could mankind "multipy and subdue the earth?" There would be no children and mankind would die out as soon as the last homosexual is dead.

So the story of the woman and Jesus is a different concept all together. The Quran says that homosexuality is an abomination. It doesn't say it is sinful but an abomination. Then there is the story of Lot who was trying to guide his people to right path. Men came to him wanting to have sexual relations and Lot refused and offered his daughters.

Can you imagine a man in those days offering his daughters so that the men who wanted homosexual sex would do the deeds that are not considered an abomination against God?

So the point is that God condemns the homosexual act because it doesn't lead to the procreation of the earth, not because it is sinful, and because it is an abomination against God Himself.

jilldavidson 3 years, 8 months ago

If the primal reason for sexual relations is for men to impregnate women, then is rape a lesser sin than loving someone of the same sex?

No one has ever said all people will become gay - that is just not consistent with surveys over the last 50 years. Kinsey thought as as many as 10% of the population might be gay, but he over-estimated - there's no evidence it has ever been much above 7%. And trans people (the letter writer's topic) are even less common - at the very most, 0.3%, and some professional organizations would say closer to 0.003%. There simply is no danger of the whole population ever becoming gay or trans.

Was the abomination that the men of Sodom wanted to have sex with strange beings? Do angels have sex? Or was it that angels were men?

"God condemns the homosexual act because it doesn't lead to the procreation of the earth" - I am trying to understand this. If I sit here listening to tunes, will God smite me because my listening to tunes doesn't lead to procreation? How 'bout my writing comments to a newspaper. That doesn't lead to procreation, does it? What other acts am I doing that don't result in procreation?

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

None of your post is responsive, as the story in question is a story in the Bible about Jesus, and I'm talking about Christians who condemn homosexuality.

Whether or not God condemns anything is not for me to say - I have no idea about that, and it's not my responsibility to condemn things in his/her name.

I'll leave that to God, if God really exists.

Personally, I tend to believe in a loving, supportive deity rather than a condemning and punitive one, but that's just my belief.

By the way, one can always find a way to exaggerate something until it becomes absurd - if everybody copulated and reproduced as much as possible all of the time, the earth would become overpopulated and destroyed.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

And, the Lot story is odd, to say the least.

How Lot winds up being the hero for offering his virgin daughters to be raped is a bit beyond me.

Grant_Runyun 3 years, 8 months ago

It seems that good christians honestly believe heterosexual rape is preferable to consensual homosexual sex.

notaubermime 3 years, 8 months ago

"Wanting to be different, other than the way God created us, is not the right solution for a person. It’s repenting and living a life empowered by God though the Holy Spirit. To quote A.C. McAulay, 'God made you as you are in order to use you as He planned.'"

That is, I think, a very good argument for accepting people who are transgender and an argument against trying to change them into something which they are not.

verity 3 years, 8 months ago

It's really quite simple when you think about it.

Doesn't matter if someone is doing something you think is sinful. Doesn't matter if your God thinks it is sinful. Under our Constitution, they still are entitled to the same civil rights as everybody else.

That's it.

JayhawkFan1985 3 years, 8 months ago

Personally, I believe in God, but nobody and I repeat NOBODY knows the mind of God. Anybody who claims to know the TRUTH is a false prophet and should be ignored. The problem with this letter really boils down to whose God are we talking about? I don't know about you, but the God that Fred Phelps believes in is a God of Hate. I don't believe in that God whoever it is. Of course I don't worship the same God the Koch Brothers do either...Mammon.

Liberty275 3 years, 8 months ago

"Anybody who claims to know the TRUTH is a false prophet and should be ignored."

Does God claim to know the TRUTH?

bearded_gnome 3 years, 8 months ago

merrill (anonymous) says…

What nonsense! Of course it is not about morality. Morality cannot be legislated.

---wow! thank you Merrill, nice to see you oppose the new city ordinance that indeed is trying to legislate morality, just liberal politically correct fascism morality. thanks dude.

JohnBrown 3 years, 8 months ago

Let's ignore science and just accept whatever happens as god's will.

Armored_One 3 years, 8 months ago

Are we the sum of our thoughts or the sum of our bodies?

If I cut your leg off, are you suddenly less human than someone else?

Crazy_Larry 3 years, 8 months ago

"The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!" Mark 1:14-15 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." Matthew 4:17 Well, it's been over 2000 years and Gawd has yet to show up...me thinks that Heysus was nothing more than a scam artist who's scam continues on to this day. Wake up, sheep.

My god has a hammer; your god was nailed to a cross. Any questions?

Crazy_Larry 3 years, 8 months ago

Yes. I also worship Odin, Kromm and the Flying Spaghetti Monster (all praises be to him). Does that offend you?

Armored_One 3 years, 8 months ago

Still one of the best religious lines ever. Used it on a protest sign against Phelps once. Shirley threatened to sue me if I didn't take it down. Gave her my name, address and phone number.

Oddly enough, never heard back from them.

BobDuver 3 years, 8 months ago

Carl, I think that you have really missed the point in your religious discussion and your biblical citations. When the Bible says that God created man in His image it does not mean the physical body is created in His image. It means that the spirit or soul that occupies our body is created in his image. Our spirit is not male or female. Therefore, your point is irrelevant. Also, your reference to the woman who committed adultery section of the Bible is widely thought to be made up and/or forged by scribes who inserted the passage since the sinning man would have been brought to justice along with her if it had really occurred. Please refer to the works of New Testament biblical scholars such as Bart Ehrman, head of the religious studies program at North Carolina, Chapel Hill. Perhaps you should lighten up and read more, Carl, rather than passing judgments based on misinterpreted biblical passages.

Liberty275 3 years, 8 months ago

Jesus don't want me for a sunbeam. Sunbeams are not made like me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnGc-6GHQps

roadwarrior 3 years, 8 months ago

notaubermime (anonymous) says… "Wanting to be different, other than the way God created us, is not the right solution for a person. It’s repenting and living a life empowered by God though the Holy Spirit. To quote A.C. McAulay, 'God made you as you are in order to use you as He planned.'"

That is, I think, a very good argument for accepting people who are transgender and an argument against trying to change them into something which they are not.

well worth repeating.

woodscolt 3 years, 8 months ago

Christians in name only, or right wing wacko republicans who think they can pretend to be christians to further their any thing but christian ideologies. In the end, all they are is a disgrace to people who live a christian life whether they are christian or not. It is a way for them to digest their own bs over and over and over. regurgitation not christians. I got a bunch a bs to stuff down your throat and you have to eat it because I'm a self anointed christian. Oh jeeeze, give me a burkhed I mean bucket to puke in.

jafs 3 years, 8 months ago

I thought it was religious "sex" he didn't believe in.

verity 3 years, 7 months ago

Said if before, gona say it again.

Doesn't matter if someone is doing something you think is sinful. Doesn't matter if your God thinks it is sinful. Under our Constitution, they still are entitled to the same civil rights as everybody else.

That's it.

Bob Forer 3 years, 7 months ago

Sorry, Carl. But not everybody believes in the myth of Jesus as Christ. Its called the First Amendment. Separation of Church and State. Ring a bell?

whats_going_on 3 years, 7 months ago

well, even though I agree with you, I don't think thats quite what the First Amendment is really about. I think it means that government can't stop you from exercising a religion. Could be wrong.

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

It says that the government can't make any laws respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise of it.

That means to me that the government shouldn't be in the business of spreading a religion, or stopping people from freely pursuing their own religious beliefs/practices.

There are some interesting, and difficult, cases to sort out - for example, when political figures allow their religion to influence their law-making. Is that the government establishing a religion, or the free exercise of the individual's religion, or something in between?

Bob Forer 3 years, 7 months ago

If God wanted us to do things his way he could have programmed us better in the beginning. Either that, or he is not as powerful as you claim. Sounds like he made a few mistakes. And since he's not perfect, he's not god.

Satirical 3 years, 7 months ago

Interesting theory...in order for something to be perfect, everything it creates must also be perfect. So if your theory were true, then everything including us would also be perfect, but since everything isn't perfect, therefore there must be no god.

That theory might hold water, except for the idea that a perfect being could have chosen to make something less than perfect. Unless you theorize a perfect being isn't perfect enough to make something not perfect. But that would seem to contradict the definition of being perfect and therefore be false.

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

Also, there is the possibility that freedom is superior to programmed goodness in some way.

Satirical 3 years, 7 months ago

One thing I don't understand is why we don't pass laws where there is proven discrimination, like against the ugly and overweight (it seriously exists, look it up).

I thought liberals were against laws creating solutions without problems. Wasn't that their main argument against voter ID laws? Oh wait, I forgot that is only a valid argument if a liberal uses it, just like patriotic dissent. Silly me.

whats_going_on 3 years, 7 months ago

"Wanting to be different, other than the way God created us, is not the right solution for a person."

who's to say (if there is a) god didn't create them they way they FEEL? Why should they be forced to be something they don't feel is right just because a bunch of religious bigots are uncomfortable with it?

Kookamooka 3 years, 7 months ago

What if you don't believe in God? That whole letter is null and void.

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