Letters to the Editor

No apology

November 29, 2011

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To the editor:

Not content with his attacks on education, the environment, the arts and SRS, Gov. Brownback has recently shown a dramatic misunderstanding of freedom of speech.

After an unfavorable tweet by an 18-year-old high school senior, a Brownback henchman, whose job it must be to monitor social media, sniffing out criticism, contacted the girl’s high school principal seeking some retribution. The gutless principal called the young woman to the office and demanded she write an apology. In my view, the governor has shown himself to be a thin-skinned, petty and venal bully. As a friend commented, he is the pathetic combination of Richard Nixon and Dean Wormer from “Animal House.”

Attention, Governor: I’ll apologize for this criticism right after the next snowstorm in Hell.

Comments

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

In other news:

 "President Obama is facing fresh criticism today for his staff's handling of an incident involving a college freshman and Facebook.

On Monday the President hosted an exclusive conference with representatives from the collegiate political science organization, Youth in Government. The group consisted of 100 college students from institutions in the metro DC area, Virginia, and Maryland. The group toured the Library of Congress and visited the House of Representatives before culminating the trip with an hour long question and answer period with the President at the White House.
During the Q and A, Andrew Orlop, a freshman at American University, began posting status updates to his Facebook page. Among the postings Orlop included "@AndyO: this guyz a fool and a liar. Just told him so and flipped him off! :) LOL!" According to accounts from members of the group, there was actually no such confrontation with the President.
Jean Blackthorne, a White House staffer, who, among her other responsibilities, is part of a team that monitors social networks for mention of the President, noticed the posting and informed the sponsors of Youth in Government of the disparaging remarks. The concern, she said, was not so much about the content of the post, but rather the venue in which Mr. Orlop chose to express himself.
"We believe that honest and productive dialogue must start with mutual respect," Blackthorne said. "The student is certainly entitled to his opinion and is free to express himself in any manner he chooses. However, we are concerned about the time and place he chose to share his remarks. It is important to realize that regardless of political affiliation, respect for the office should be paramount, particularly when one has been granted such exclusive access. " She went on to say, " Obviously, the President is an extremely busy person. Being afforded such intimate conference, it would seem prudent that a certain level of consideration and respect be afforded the President himself. To do otherwise reflects poorly on the organization that sponsored the trip, the student, and his University."

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

(continued)

"The office of the President had no comment about the incident, but Blackthorne did say that other than informing the organization, their involvement in the incident was complete.
Keil Nerwin, the president of American University, acknowledged he'd been informed of the incident by the sponsors of Youth in Government and that he would be meeting with the student later that day. Nerwin explained that as an envoy for the organization, the student should have considered his surroundings before making such a regrettable choice. He also stated that his office had not yet determined if reprimand was in order, but he felt that a written apology to President Obama seemed prudent, then added, "The student will not be required to write a letter of apology, but there could be repercussions for opting not to do so." Nerwin wouldn't go into specifics on what repercussions might ensue. An administrator at American who wished to remain anonymous said that a likely result of refusing to apologize would include notation on the student's transcript. ""

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

If that's a real quote, it would be nice to know the source.

And, I have the same reaction to that as the governor's actions - I think they're both wrong.

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

Thanks.

I guess he just made it up to see how people reacted to it.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 7 months ago

Jaywalker has been rather comically trying to defend Brownback and his administration in this whole affair. He never could make a rational argument, and apparently went off the deep end, creating this bit of fiction (to what end, I can't really fathom.)

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

Jay, the problem with your fantasy story is that none of it ever happened. The Brownback - Blowsalot situation actually did.

You criticized in several posts that the girl "lied" in her message, then you write this?

As they say ... stop digging. You took the wrong side of this story based on virtually everyone, including the Governor himself, and now you are making up stuff about the President?

Just stop digging.

Hong_Kong_Phooey 3 years, 7 months ago

Congratulations, Jaywalker, you just committed defamation. You'd better hope that President Obama is more forgiving than Brownback.

thebigspoon 3 years, 7 months ago

First, yourself, for lying and false attribution. Second, the office of the President and his staffers. Third, the people you expected to believe this idiocy. Any other questions?

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

No. But I'd suggest you look up the meaning of defamation.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

Actually wanna engage in a conversation or just pretend, bc?

Kendall Simmons 3 years, 7 months ago

Was this supposed to be funny???

I mean, I knew it wasn't true, but I can't imagine why anyone would spend so much time on writing this if it weren't supposed to be funny.

(As an aside, I'm astonished that anyone here spent any time whatsoever trying to check it out since it was so obviously nothing more than a simple substitution of names.)

Oh well.

Liberty275 3 years, 7 months ago

""@AndyO: this guyz a fool and a liar."

In other news, the sky is blue in the daytime.

JustNoticed 3 years, 7 months ago

Hey, that jerk should be thrown in jail. You can't talk about my President like that. It's freakin unAmerican and unPatriotic and unCivil and all kinds of other unStuff. Anybody who would dare criticize President Obama should be thrown in jail immediately and WITHOUT their dang cell phone or any other dang electronical devices. How dare anyone criticize President Obama. He's the dang President, don't you know? And that cannot be tolerated. There, feel better Jaywalker?

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

"There, feel better Jaywalker?"

Why, yes, actually. I mean, how often does someone attempting to articulate an honest opinion have Jethro Bodine come in and clarify it all so succinctly? If it wasn't such a gosh darn waste to the infantry I'd recommend you for OCS, Private Gump.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 7 months ago

Excellent letter supporting freedom of speech and expression..

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

jaywalker, I Googled Andrew Orlop. There is no mention anywhere on the 'net of such an exchange ever taking place. I tried changing search terms and it still didn't show up. If you got this off of the internet from some wacko right wing site, it, at the very least, should have shown up. It didn't. This leads me to believe you created it, whole cloth, from your imagination. By the way, the name of the of the president of AU is Cornelius Kerwin, not "Keil Nerwin". There is no one named "Jean Blackthorne" on the White House staff or Obama's personal staff. I even tried looking for Andrew Orlop on Facebook (and believe me, if he was a freshman at AU and tweeting he would be there). I even tried looking him up on AU's student listings. No such person exists. It's a terrible thing to waste such a fine imagination.

KansasPerson 3 years, 7 months ago

Not to mention the fact that "@AndyO" is the twitter handle for different person.

Jaywalker, far from being ashamed of himself for being deceitful, is probably laughing at the idea of other commenters going to the trouble of trying to find his made-up story.

Seems with all the other rules in the TOS, there should be something about making up fake quotations and refusing to put a citation.

Kendall Simmons 3 years, 7 months ago

Maybe there should be a rule about gullibility?? Sorry, guys, but I can't believe you all fell for this.

thebigspoon 3 years, 7 months ago

Coming from a habitual misinformer like him, it is important that his information be shown for what it is. That's why the users investigated it. Otherwise they'd be just as guilty as he for simply believing the claptrap he posts. Not that it makes any difference to him, but this type of stuipidity simply points out that he has no rational reason for anything he says and should be accorded the attention given a gnat: don't bother with it until it bothers you, then swat it to mush.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

Do we have some history I'm not remembering, spoon? Not sure what all this childish ranting of yours is about.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 7 months ago

Is Jaywalker making up the story above? Of not how about a link please....

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 7 months ago

I think it's already been determined, whether he personally made it up or someone else did and he swallowed it, that it's a pile of horse puckey.

naturalist 3 years, 7 months ago

Obviously Jay is just trying to put the same story into another perspective. Of course the names have been changed or are fictitious! Doh!

tomatogrower 3 years, 7 months ago

I'm sure the story will now appear in many stupid emails. I'll let you know if my conservative relative ends up sending it to me. He always sends me crud like this, then I send him back the fact check or snopes response, but he still believes it. I think he reads tabloids too.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 7 months ago

It's long been recognized that punishing people for exercising their free speech rights by government officials is a violation of the first amendment.

I'd say your application of the word "idiot" is woefully misdirected.

Kendall Simmons 3 years, 7 months ago

The problem is when folks confuse punishing people for exercising their free speech rights with punishing them for something that turns out not to be protected free speech. Kinda like arguing that the right to peaceably assemble is the same thing as illegal camping.

Bryan Anderson 3 years, 7 months ago

Freedom of speech does not end at the school door. See Tinker v Iowa.

JustNoticed 3 years, 7 months ago

Besides all that, you write in sentence fragments. So, on many levels, you don't make sense.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

Hard to believe, Just, but that may have been the cheapest, most pathetic post on this board. And Gandalf has posted multiple times. That makes yours incredibly sad.

David Reynolds 3 years, 7 months ago

The problem with name calling is it tells the world you have nothing c onstructive to say. Thus it shows us that someone is speaking who appears to be incapable of rational, construvtive thought.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

Of course my post is fiction. I truly didn't mean to "deceive" anyone (KansasPerson), I thought that would be evident since the post virtually mirrors the recent incident in Kansas.
I simply don't see how so many here can hold the positions they do regarding this sort of thing. Whether it's the President or Governor Brownback (and for me, political affiliation is moot despite bozo's previously informed yet willfully ignorant contention), the student's behavior is the abhorrent one. It's dismaying that a very limited number of posters have been able to muse rationally on this topic. I thought I'd just flip the script in hopes some might gain perspective in case their venom for Brownback was dictating their stance. I don't expect honest mea culpas, just that some thought be put into this. Unless something along the lines of the fictional story happened, I doubt we find the truth. Though I highly suspect many here would flip flop instantly if the offender had been a conservative and the politician liberal. Too many have amplified, exaggerated, or out-right conjured up language to fit their argument over this.
The facts of the case remain: -a twit tweeted (rights intact) -the office of the Governor alerted the student's sponsoring organization (how can that be a bad, petty, or criminal thing whatsoever?) -the principal requested a letter of apology for the disrespectful, rude, and embarrassing behavior (completely within the principals' purview and justified) -the student declined, as was her right (poor choice #2, IMO)

I believe the overriding issue here is the venue this student chose to act. As this board often proves, the hatred for Brownback is widespread. Certainly his office notices negative postings about the Governor all the time. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the decision to inform the organization of the student's behavior be tied to the fact that she was one of a select group afforded the honor of meeting with the Governor of the State of Kansas at the State Capitol? And that she chose to post such disrespectful and immature things while sitting in front of him as a guest? I just can't understand how the student is in any way the good guy in this. She becomes a folk hero for tweeting a bald faced lie and two epithets worthy of a 12 year old? So much for our respectable and considerate society, I guess.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 7 months ago

Translation-- he couldn't explain his position rationally, so he went for an extremely elaborate straw man.

KansasPerson 3 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, but now you've defamed the real @AndyO. Don't you think you'd better send him an apology?

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

She acted immaturely and badly, and should apologize (without being forced to do so).

But to claim that the governor and principal's actions are praiseworthy seems unwarranted.

The idea that public officials are granting people some sort of "honor" by allowing them to meet with them is a bit repellent to me - they are elected officials, not royalty.

As such, it's part of their job to interact with the public in a variety of ways.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

"(without being forced to do so)."

She wasn't and hasn't been "forced" to do anything.

"But to claim that the governor and principal's actions are praiseworthy"

I've claimed no such thing. I said they were justified.

"The idea that public officials are granting people some sort of "honor" by allowing them to meet with them is a bit repellent to me"

You wouldn't consider it an honor to be afforded a private meeting with an official of such magnitude? Something you had to strive for and earn? But a member of royalty, a figurehead, someone in a position of power they achieved through bloodline... they would be an honor? Curious, that.

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

No, the principal didn't actually hold her down and force the pen in her hand to make her start writing, but he did try to coerce her to write a letter of apology. Do you not think it rather intimidating to call a student into the principal's office and be spoken to for an hour?

It wasn't a "private meeting." It was a group field trip to see an elected official, one the student doesn't particularly care for. She was in the back of the room. Yes, she should have been a little more impressed with seeing and hearing from a governor, but she is young.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

"but he did try to coerce her to write a letter of apology. Do you not think it rather intimidating to call a student into the principal's office and be spoken to for an hour"

No force. No coercion.
Sure it's intimidating to be called into the principal's office for a dressing down; it's not supposed to feel like a social visit.

It was a private meeting for her and the members of the organization, afforded to those students who'd earned the honor.

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

Your idea of force and coercion are quite odd, and don't make sense to me.

No, I don't consider it an "honor" to meet with an elected official.

Nor do I consider it an "honor" to meet with royalty - it's just that the language seemed more in line with those ideas than that of a democracy.

Elected officials are simply people that we've chosen to represent us, no more and no less.

Perhaps they should consider it an "honor" to meet with those who have made it possible for them to hold their positions.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

I imagine some of them do.
And I guess we'll just be different in that way. Being afforded the opportunity to meet with someone who has achieved such a post as Governor would certainly be an honor to me, as well as a majority of others, I imagine.

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

Perhaps.

I imagine it may depend for many people on whether or not they like/agree with/admire that particular politician.

When I was younger, I went with a group of college students and met with Christopher Dodd, to talk about the nuclear submarine in CT, where I was going to school. I found him to be rather pompous and arrogant, not interested in what we had to say, or the questions we asked. In fact, he overtalked us several times.

Nothing particularly admirable to me, or anything that I would find to consider meeting with him an honor.

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

Frankly, I find little to admire in politics, so the "achievement" of getting elected, especially in KS, and with such low voter turnout, really doesn't impress me much.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

I can understand all of that, particularly with Dodd. I have some friends up that way, one that used to work in his office. From what she's told me your assessment is spot on.

thebigspoon 3 years, 7 months ago

Is that the truth, jay, or something else made up? You see, you've done your best to lose credibility, and your every word is suspect now. Opinions? Perfectly accdeptable. Lies and innuendo? Not.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

My every word is suspect? I admitted to KansasPerson that I may have made a mistake by not pointing out the original post was purely fictitious. But then as a couple posters have noted, I thought it was pretty obvious it was to read as a farce. Other than that, not sure what else you might be referring to.

naturalist 3 years, 7 months ago

You skipped a step. Governor's office uses tax payer dollars to go onto social media to find all such tweets, even if they are only going to be seen by 61 people, and proceed to track down an organization that might know the source of the tweet so that tweeter will be confronted. (That doesn't unsettle you? Do you know anything about Nixon or Hoover?)

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

" Governor's office uses tax payer dollars to go onto social media to find all such tweets, "

I suggest you don't frighten yourself with fiction.

bad_dog 3 years, 7 months ago

Per the Topeka Capital Journal: "Brownback's office employees, who monitor Facebook, Twitter and other social commentary for postings containing the governor's name, saw Sullivan's message and shared the information with organizers of the Youth in Government program." "Emails released by the governor's office indicated Samir Arif, the governor's deputy communications director, sent an email Nov. 21 with the offending tweet to Burget, a member of the governor's scheduling staff.

Burget sent a message to Deborah Brown, the Kansas director of the Youth in Government program and a K-12 social studies specialist in the Shawnee Mission School District. Burget also copied Sullivan's tweet in the email to Brown."

Brown's reply Nov. 22 said she had contacted the principal at Shawnee Mission East regarding the tweet."

http://cjonline.com/news/2011-11-28/brownback-apologizes-tweet-flap

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

Well aware their office utilizes social media, dog. The issue with many on here, including the intimation of naturalist, is that they somehow believe that they're simply monitoring those sites for negative comments, ala Hoover or Nixon. But that's not the case.

thebigspoon 3 years, 7 months ago

That is not what you said, jay. You refuted the fact that the fovernor's people searched for tweets about Brownback, and it is clear from the record that they do. Try again. No mention anywhere, at any time, that they monitor "simply...for negative comments". Again you make up stuff and try to pass it off as information simply to bolster your argument. I would imagine, though I have no evidence to back this up, that positive comments are also passed along to those who benefit.
The issue here is that this negative comment received the type of reaction repugnant to a democratic system, and sent all kinds of messages about how Brownback and his staff regard the Constitution of The United States. Remember, Nixon used "information" such as this to further his agenda, and look where it got him.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

Not sure where all your animosity is coming from, spoon. Truly don't recall any past conversations with you, but apparently you have some sort of stick jammed somewhere judging by the disparaging, uninformed comments you're making about me on this string all of sudden. I'd be happy to converse with you like a rational human being, or you can continue as you have. Your call.

"You refuted the fact that the fovernor's people searched for tweets about Brownback, and it is clear from the record that they do. "

Perhaps you read a comment of mine wrong or just misunderstood the context. But I've never refuted the Governor's people used social media or monitored for mentions of his name; as you point out, it's in all the articles. That would be pretty silly to try to refute.
What I've refuted is countless posters' contentions that they monitored social media simply and solely for negative comments. There may not be any on this string, though naturalist intimated such by referring to the monitoring as akin to the days of Nixon and Hoover. However, I've been on these strings for the last three days. Feel free to look at my posting history and you'll find countless examples of what I'm speaking of, I assure you.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

Found one on this string, spoon. Down near bottom of page.

jaywalker (anonymous) replies… daddax,

The Governor and his office do not troll the internet simply to find negative comments about the man. Businesses and politicians utilize social media in its many forms to take advantage of the burgeoning and effective industries. President Obama revolutionized the practice in his campaign. Nor has anyone in his office attempted to control anyone's free expression, through sanctions or otherwise. They discovered the tweet and informed the student's sponsors of it. That's it. All. Finito.

November 29, 2011 at 1:31 p.m. permalinkreplysuggest removal

bklonnie 3 years, 7 months ago

What part are you missing about people being frustrated about that? The state supposedly has no money, but they can afford to pay people to monitor social media all day long? Do you really want to sit there and debate that point?

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

I haven't debated THAT point once, bk. I'm simply debating the contention that the Governor's office sole use of social media is to sniff out negative comments.

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

Jay, the student's behavior was misguided and childish, and yes, rude. (By the way, are you really showing yourself to be that much better than the student by calling her a "twit"?) However, it hardly ranks up to something to be considered "abhorrent." Time to come to terms with what was really said and done, none of which would even raise an eyebrow if someone wrote the same exact thing here about President Obama.

The reason she is a "folk hero" is that she chose not to buckle under the pressure from principal, thanks to the support she received from people around the country. She fought the "law" and ... she won! Pretty easy to understand. A simple high schooler getting a governor to give a public apology is the type of thing folk heroes are made from. Not that hard to understand.

What is truly abhorrent here is the initial actions and reaction from the Governor's office. It is so abhorrent, in fact, that the Governor felt it necessary to apologize for his staffs' actions.

You see jay, even Governor Brownback thinks you are wrong.

Just stop digging.

David Reynolds 3 years, 7 months ago

She may be a folk hero in some people's eyes, but not everyone. Her original comments show her immaturity. If someone does not like what someone else is saying or doing, then present constructive alternatives so you can be part of the debate. No one will listen to your point of view if there is nothing constructive being offered.

Isn't the intent of communication to initiate constructive thought & or action?

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

I was answering jay's question as to why some might consider her a folk hero, that is all. I would certainly hope everyone didn't think of her as one. As far as I'm concerned, this story isn't about her, but rather about a governor's office monitoring and reacting to social media, including obviously immature tweets.

Are you really surprised that a high schooler did something immature? Really? I'm surprised when they don't.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

"(By the way, are you really showing yourself to be that much better than the student by calling her a "twit"?) "

Never intended to show myself as better than her. And people in glass houses, bea, ... Of course, you're right. Someone that's shown such powerful displays of intelligence, judgement, class, and respect should be referred to as a Mensa candidate. My mistake.

"Time to come to terms with what was really said and done"

'What was really said and done' I summarized above in four simple points.

" none of which would even raise an eyebrow if someone wrote the same exact thing here about President Obama."

All evidence to the contrary on these boards......

"The reason she is a "folk hero" is that she chose not to buckle under the pressure from principal,"

Please. She'd attained "folk hero" status before declining to write the apology.

"What is truly abhorrent here is the initial actions and reaction from the Governor's office"

Yeah, ALL of that is abhorrent. The "initial actions and reaction" ....ALL of 'em... were to inform the sponsors of poor behavior by one of their charges. Oh. That's just one thing. But that's certainly "abhorrent", particularly in contrast to what the student chose to do. "Excuse me, but we thought you should be made aware of something that reflects rather poorly on your association.........." Bastards!

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

Or, ignore all that and just keep digging.

Virtually everyone, with the exception of the partisan hardliners who truly would take the exact opposite side of this if the governor were a Democrat, thinks you are on the wrong side of this issue. This includes Governor Brownback himself, demonstrated by his apologizing for his office's actions. Why are you so unwilling to accept the Governor's apology?

Yes, people in glass houses should have a ready supply of Windex.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

"Why are you so unwilling to accept the Governor's apology?"

Mostly because I believe in my convictions on this issue. But honestly, when I saw he'd apologized for the "overreaction", my first thought was, 'Boy, this guy might just be the fool everyone thinks he is.'

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

I think it was wise of him to get out in front of this thing as soon as possible.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

From a political standpoint I can't disagree. Kind of like settling a lawsuit just to get past it.

Plurilingual 3 years, 7 months ago

FWIW, I don't believe that the Brownback thinks this was wrong. He thought he better get out in front of it before it dominates the news cycle for an entire week.

I for one am not convinced that he has discontinued the practice of monitoring social media and developing action items that target specific individuals for things that are said about him in said media.

KansasPerson 3 years, 7 months ago

Firstly, Jaywalker, that was pretty irresponsible behavior. You ought to be smart enough to realize that someone, someday, is going to lift it verbatim and republish it as "fact" elsewhere on the internet. You put quotation marks around it, for crying out loud. So what if you admitted it was "fiction" later on down the page -- no one is going to see that. Tag it clearly as fiction or request to have it removed, that would be my advice. You shouldn't write so carelessly on the internet; it's like tossing a lit match on the ground during a drought. Of course if your intent was to start a lie off on its rounds to the Snopes page, then that's a different story.

Secondly, to you or whoever of your ilk who insist that Emma's tweet was "attention-seeking behavior" -- sorry, but if you have only sixty-odd followers on Twitter, you are by definition NOT seeking attention. Of course she has more than that number now, but she didn't seek them out.

This is a high-school senior with a clean record who was obviously a hard worker or she would not have EARNED the right to go to Topeka with this group. (It wasn't handed to her on a plate and she had the right to go with whatever mindset she wished.)

It has been covered in other media sources that her original tweet was meant as a reference to a running joke between her and a few friends. That should have been the end of the story. If her school has a rule against using your smart phone while on field trips, then I don't have a problem with her apologizing to her teacher. Anything else was over-the-top draconian craziness.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 7 months ago

Well said, but once jaywalker has chosen a windmill towards which to tilt, all you can do is stand back and watch the show.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

"You shouldn't write so carelessly on the internet; it's like tossing a lit match on the ground during a drought."

Perhaps you're right, I truly never meant to deceive anyone.

"to you or whoever of your ilk who insist that Emma's tweet was "attention-seeking behavior""

Thanks for tipping your hand with "ilk". It's nice when people let it be known right off the bat where they're coming from. As to the 'attention seeking behavior', I haven't said jack about such in any of my posts.

"(It wasn't handed to her on a plate and she had the right to go with whatever mindset she wished"

From the cheap seats, I couldn't care less what mindset she had. This isn't about what she believes personally or politically; it's about decorum, consideration, and respect for the office, the organization she EARNED the invitation from, and the school and family she represents.

"Anything else was over-the-top draconian craziness."

Asking a misbehaving student to pen a letter of apology is not even remotely "Draconian."

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

Come on gandalf. I find it hard to believe that jay said military service isn't a "real" job, and if he did I suspect there was a context that would explain how it was a different kind of job, or something like that. Jay isn't the type to bash the military. I'm also no longer a resident of Kansas, although I used to be and enjoy staying in touch. I might choose to return some day. Should I not post here?

Plenty here to go after jay's arguments, but I don't think we need to go beyond the story at hand. Just my two cents in the hopes of encouraging civil debate.

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

Oh, and this demonstrates why I am the head of the Beatrice / Gandalf 2012 ticket.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

You HAVE to find a better running mate. Palin is Einstein in comparison.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

"Sorry bea, he really did tell Hepburn (as in USS Hepburn)"

That's nice you decided to add the "USS", 'cept I had no way of knowing I was conversing with a ship.

Shelley Bock 3 years, 7 months ago

I'm not a ship, Jaywalker. But, it was the USS Hepburn FF (DE) - 1055, from whence my moniker comes. Good ship, crew and CO.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

I'm going to flaunt the adage about arguing with a fool one more time, but........

"Condemn teenager sending joking tweet as a liar."

Never "condemned" her. But she did lie, right?

"Lies himself in LJW post."

Cite and prove it.

"Claims military service is not a "real" job."

Now THAT'S a complete and utter lie.

"Claims not a resident of Kansas."

Not since 1999.

"Posts on Kansas boards."

I post on one Kansas board. Consider Lawrence my home. Love me some Larry. Sue me.

beatrice 3 years, 7 months ago

With as many people as there are who disagree with you on this story, it will have to be a class action suit.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

"Way to many to cite!"

Great. Let's start with just one then. Because your pathetic attempt to tie my "lying" and the "military isn't a real job" are exceptionally pathetic yet oddly reminiscent of a porch dweller we used to have 'round these parts.

If you'd like to explain to me how exactly I'm supposed to know the poster with the user name "Hepburn" is a Navy Vet through anything other than osmosis, I'd love to hear it.

Now stop your own lying and cite something factual, if it's not too much trouble.

"How about a response on being a paid political hack?"

Um, ok.......your immaturity belies your age. How's that?

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

Thanks for posting so much gibberish.

"Yes, by all means. We should encourage poor behavior so as to seek out...."

?? And you chose to quote the above.......why?

"Mmmm maybe by reading his profile."

Sorry, but I have a life and rarely look at other poster's profiles.

"Got a problem with a yes or no answer?"

No.

Still waiting for that citation for your lie that I've lied.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

So that's a "No, I refuse to back up my false claims." Gotcha.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

"Lies himself in LJW post."

Still nothing. Which means you're lying.

"Way to many to cite!"

And yet you can't cite one.

"Claims military service is not a real job."

Oh, right. That's your lie. Never mind.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

"Anyone who has read the above posts can make their own decision who is lying."

That is, without a doubt, the first intelligent thing you've ever posted.
Unfortunately, you have no clue as to why. I'll just say thank you.

daddax98 3 years, 7 months ago

"it's about decorum, consideration, and respect for the office" tell that to Joe Wilson and the TP

"Asking a misbehaving student to pen a letter of apology is not even remotely "Draconian."" guess that depends on your definition of misbehaving, the simple fact of the matter is that is Brownback and his staff had not made it an issue it would not have been. She didn't yell at him or cause a disturbance in the capitol, she sent a joke to her friends, and if that is misbehaving then God help us all

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

"tell that to Joe Wilson and the TP"

And I've had choice words for both the man and the group over their behavior.

"guess that depends on your definition of misbehaving"

No, it depends if one's silly enough to call a request to write an apology "Draconian."

daddax98 3 years, 7 months ago

I think the Draconian part is the trolling of the internet for anything negative about Sam and then attempting to control the free expression of opinion through sanctions.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

daddax,

The Governor and his office do not troll the internet simply to find negative comments about the man. Businesses and politicians utilize social media in its many forms to take advantage of the burgeoning and effective industries. President Obama revolutionized the practice in his campaign.
Nor has anyone in his office attempted to control anyone's free expression, through sanctions or otherwise. They discovered the tweet and informed the student's sponsors of it. That's it. All. Finito.

daddax98 3 years, 7 months ago

But i do agree with you that the punishment in and of itself is not draconian

somedude20 3 years, 7 months ago

What happened to the good ole days when kids only did sexting? Although the word twitter sounds just as bad. Maggie, stop playing with your twitter, you'll go blind staring at the screen

Armstrong 3 years, 7 months ago

Voice of experience? Sorry couldn't resist

H_Lecter 3 years, 7 months ago

"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

parco814 3 years, 7 months ago

You've got to be kidding me, jaywalker.

The volume and virulence of the insults and lies aimed at the President and First Lady are unprecedented. Through it all, the President and First Lady and most of their supporters have handled this garbage with maturity and dignity, in sharp contrast to the fit that Brownback's office threw over this mild bit of sarcasm on twitter, from a teenager.

Thanks but no thanks for your object lesson.

jaywalker 3 years, 7 months ago

"You've got to be kidding me, jaywalker."

About what?

"The volume and virulence of the insults and lies aimed at the President and First Lady are unprecedented. Through it all, the President and First Lady and most of their supporters have handled this garbage with maturity and dignity,"

Oh. Pretty sure I haven't touched on any of that whatsoever, but ok. Not sure what any of ...

"in sharp contrast to the fit that Brownback's office threw over this mild bit of sarcasm on twitter, from a teenager."

Oooooh! Now I understand! You're one of those in need of an "object lesson" because you prefer to see things that aren't actually true! Gotcha!

Get back to me when you grow up and/or cop a clue.

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