Archive for Tuesday, June 28, 2011

Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, county officials working on new election-fraud regulations

June 28, 2011, 8:43 a.m. Updated June 28, 2011, 8:11 a.m.


— Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach says he hopes to have regulations drafted by the fall to guide elections officials in administering the state's new voter ID law.

Kobach convened a task force Tuesday of 17 county elections officials to review the law, which will require voters to show photo identification at the polls starting Jan. 1.

Also under that law, starting in 2013, people registering to vote for the first time will have to provide proof of their U.S. citizenship.

Kobach championed both policies, but he notes the law doesn't cover all contingencies.

For example, the rules will tell election workers what to do when photos on people's IDs look nothing like them.

Kobach says he wants to tap the experience and instincts of county election officers.


notanota 6 years, 1 month ago

Will they provide detailed instructions on what to do when they see a unicorn?

isoscelesnewton 6 years, 1 month ago

If voter fraud is such a problem, shouldn't we doubt that Kobach's own election to office was illegitimate?

Lisa Rasor 6 years, 1 month ago


But I think your phrasing has the effect of a double negative: "...shouldn't we doubt that [his]...election...was illegitimate?"

Yes, by his assertion that voter fraud is rampant, we should doubt that his election was legitimate.

isoscelesnewton 6 years, 1 month ago

Thanks, Catie. I noticed my double negative after posting it...

GovJunkie 6 years, 1 month ago

Better have a representative from the Kansas Sentencing Commission and the Kansas Department of Corrections to begin making plans for all of the bed space needed to house these violent offenders that are obviously part of a massive fraud being perpetrated upon the electorate here in Kansas... there are a lot of these criminals out there, aren't their???


Jimo 6 years, 1 month ago

When does the task force on UFOs meet?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 1 month ago

It wasn't even fraud. Just some hard to identify (or confirm) irregularity.

1029 6 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

somedude20 6 years, 1 month ago

SETI looks for aliens Kobach looks for headlines and wants to ensure that another non-white does not get elected (or vote again).

Paul R Getto 6 years, 1 month ago

Should be a pretty short meeting, if all they do is go over the 'evidence' of past voter fraud in Kansas.

mloburgio 6 years, 1 month ago

i thought krissy looked more like the joker without the makeup.

Maybe we need to start invading countries with cooler climates: The amount the U.S. military spends annually on air conditioning in Iraq and Afghanistan: $20.2 billion.

jhawkinsf 6 years, 1 month ago

If even one ineligible person votes when they are not entitled to, that is one too many. If even one eligible person is dissuaded from voting because the government has placed too many obstacles in their way, then that is one too many. I would very much like to see reliable numbers from reliable sources.

beatrice 6 years, 1 month ago

Shouldn't the reliable numbers have been provided by those who wrote the new regulations?

Voting is a right. This new law is placing a limitation on one of your rights. Don't be surprised if you need to show your id next time you want to practice your freedom of speech.

"Show me your papers!"

jhawkinsf 6 years, 1 month ago

The question in my mind is this, we know there has been some very small amount of fraud. But is there additional fraud that is "suspected" that would warrant measures that have the potential to dissuade eligible voters from exercising their constitutional right to vote? And then, do we suspect that the numbers of dissuaded voters will amount to what number? In other words, Kobach thinks "X" numbers of people are voting fraudulently, while those on the other side think "Y" number of eligible voters will choose not to go though the additional hassle.

beatrice 6 years, 1 month ago

Why don't you tell us. How many people does Kobach think are voting fraudulently, and is it a large enough number that it is worth risking the disenfranchisement of even a single legal citizen of his or her Constitutional right to vote? How many other rights are we willing to give up to possibly stop someone else from breaking a law? That is the point as far as I'm concerned.

jhawkinsf 6 years, 1 month ago

I can't tell you because I don't know. I think Kobach believes that the number is higher than the few documented cases and he believes that the numbers could be growing. I don't know if he is right or wrong. That said, I also don't know the numbers of people who will be dissuaded from voting because of I.D. requirements, etc. And as I interpret the posts of people on this forum, they believe the numbers will also grow. I don't know if they are right or wrong. It may be Kobach's responsibility to tell us where the fraud is or where he suspects it might be. But those who oppose Kobach should also state who they believe will be dissuaded from voting and why that is. There seems to be a lot of bold claims being made by both sides.

tomatogrower 6 years, 1 month ago

If one qualified person is denied the right to vote, because of Kobach, there will be a lawsuit. The state of Kansas already has to fight a lawsuit over the unequal regulations of abortion clinics. If they continue harassing protesters who don't agree with Brownback and company, there will be another lawsuit. Who is paying the lawyers? Not Brownback. Kobach is actually making lots of money from defending bad laws he helped write. According to our new regime, more taxes for the poor is bad; more taxes to defend unconstitutional laws is good.

TheStonesSuck 6 years, 1 month ago

I can't decide whether Kris (Chris with a K was a major warning sign) is a turd sandwich, or a giant douche. "On The Street", consider yourself on notice.

frankfussman 6 years, 1 month ago

"Kobach says he wants to tap the experience and instincts of county election officers." They probably think this is a major waste of time and money. He should have done this BEFORE he went down this path.

Alceste 6 years, 1 month ago

It is very troubling that Kobach is taking so much time to deliver on this ever so important and critical matter to the World Class Operation known as the state of Kansas. Whatever will our Nation and, alas, the World itself DO with all the voter fraud going on in this ever so important speck of dirt on the globe? The only real solution is do away with voting altogether which negates 100% any chance of any type of fraud. Sam Brownback knows what is best for the people. God have Mercy on all of us.....(well....maybe not ALL of us....)......

Boston_Corbett 6 years, 1 month ago

This guy's face just begs for an application of clown makeup.

think_about_it 6 years, 1 month ago

Snob Hill Haters out in force? Check.

Wow your guys are extra frothy when it comes to our Secretary of State who, by the way, won in a landslide.

Oh and don't worry. He is not counting on support from Douglas County. Most of you were not born here and do not hold the same values and ideals that the 60% who elected him do. You are in the minority for a reason.

notanota 6 years, 1 month ago

Nixon also won in a landslide. Your point?

Scott Morgan 6 years, 1 month ago

Nixon was an excellent president in some areas. China for instance.

notanota 6 years, 1 month ago

I'll grant you that we don't give him credit for the good things he did, like environmental protections, but that's because the bad things he did overshadow it. The point being that winning an election doesn't make you a good leader. It just makes you the winner of an election.

Joseph Jarvis 6 years, 1 month ago

@think_about_it: Voting is a fundamental right guaranteed to all by our constitution. Majorities are irrelevant in that context.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 1 month ago

Actually, the right to vote is not constitutionally protected. Please point out to me where it states that.

Joseph Jarvis 6 years, 1 month ago

@cait48: The right to vote does not appear in the constitution. But the Supreme Court has held that the equal protection and due process clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment guarantee some fundamental rights not listed in the document. The right to vote is one of those fundamental rights.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 1 month ago

This only means that the ability to vote cannot be determined by discrimination. It does NOT guarantee the right to vote in and of itself.

Joseph Jarvis 6 years, 1 month ago

@cait48: I think most legal scholars would say the Supreme Court has recognized a right to vote in the Fourteenth Amendment.

Both the Wikipedia articles on substantive due process and equal protection include the right to vote:

Substantive due process: Equal protection:

I also see it in legal textbooks, specifically Constitutional Law (6th ed.) by Stone and Election Law (4th ed.) by Lowenstein.

But I'm open minded. What evidence do you have that it's not?

drake 6 years, 1 month ago

It also protects the right to bear arms. What's your take on that Mr. Constitutional scholar joejarvis?

Joseph Jarvis 6 years, 1 month ago

@drake: Think_about_it said this policy is right because the majority of Kansans supported it by electing Kobach. Technically, Kobach didn't pass voter ID; the legislature did. But the sentiment is the same: think_about_it is saying voter ID is legitimate because our majoritarian democracy enacted it.

The right to vote is an individual liberty protected by the U.S. constitution. Even if the majority wanted to, it could not infringe on that constitutional right. A court would strike down a law that infringed the right to vote as unconstitutional. My point is that in the context of the right to vote, majoritarian politics are not the final word, as claimed by think_about_it.

The same would be true for other rights in the constitution, like the right to bear arms (hence why there's lots of litigation on it). My point is just that majoritarian legislatures don't have the final say.

P.S. I am not a constitutional scholar. More like a constitutional student. All Americans should be. Since when is that something to ridicule?

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 1 month ago

And the right to vote is not constitutionally protected. It was precisely because the "FF" (Founding Fathers) didn't trust majority rule that they established the Electoral College. Even the 24th Amendment doesn't guarantee the right to vote. It only prohibits the use of poll taxes from preventing someone from voting. Please do some research.

Joseph Jarvis 6 years, 1 month ago

@cait48: See my reply above to your first comment on this issue.

Richard Heckler 6 years, 1 month ago

republicans live on fear mongering and stretching the truth.

The fraud is the republican party!

monkeyhawk 6 years, 1 month ago

I can see why you cut and paste all the time.

BigPrune 6 years, 1 month ago

I want to buy a 12 pack of Coors - so they ask for my i.d. I want to buy a pack of smokes - so they ask for my i.d. I want to buy some cold medication - so they ask for my i.d. I want to see the doctor - so they ask for my i.d. I want to buy a gun - so they ask for my i.d. I want to vote for a candidate - so they ask for my i.d.

If the democrats didn't commit so much voter fraud nationwide, this law wouldn't be needed. I see why all you pinko commies complain.

Joseph Jarvis 6 years, 1 month ago

@BigPrune: The government regulates alcohol, tobacco, and firearms to promote public health and safety. The argument for regulating voting is fraud. They're not analogous.

BigPrune 6 years, 1 month ago

then leave your front door unlocked and leave your keys in the ignition and see if anyone robs your house or steals your car. the i.d. requirement locks the door and takes the keys.

Joseph Jarvis 6 years, 1 month ago

@bigprune: Why the strawman about me being some naif who leaves his doors unlocked? I didn't express an opinion for or against voter ID.

All I said was government asks for ID for the things you point out for different reasons than for voter ID. They're not analogous.

beatrice 6 years, 1 month ago

More blanket and false claims from BigPrune on voter fraud. How sad to have such weak conviction in your own beliefs that you have to lie to try to convince others. Just sad.

BigPrune 6 years, 1 month ago

i don't know.....are you a regular customer?

William Weissbeck 6 years, 1 month ago

Kobach has a task force and is having meetings to enact a law that effects many thousands on Kansans. In other words, regardless of what we think of the law, he is taking his time. But abortion clinic regulation - that can be done overnight, without input. And in both cases, the laws are going to prevent abuses of possibly a few hundred in the case of voters not entitled to vote, and at most, a few dozen in the case of patients receiving sub standard care at a clinic. If they spent this much time and effort to improve/modernize the election systems in Florida or Ohio, then Gore or Kerry would be president. Oh, my bad, that's what the GOP is trying to prevent. Make sure only "their" people vote, not whether we have modern, available, tamper free, election equipment.

plainspeaking 6 years, 1 month ago

LJW, please list the members of the task force.

akt2 6 years, 1 month ago

This is such a non-issue. If you want to excercise your right to vote, do so. If it is too much of an inconvenience to provide identification, stay in bed with your head under the covers. Ask our military citizens how much they were inconvenienced while fighting for our rights. Then ask them about showing ID. They would laugh. Ask our disabled citizens that live in wheel chairs because they have no limbs, how inconvenient it is for them to schedule special transportation to the polls. Then ask them about showing their ID. They would show it, and be happy to do so. Whining about a piece of plastic is in bad taste.

ivalueamerica 6 years, 1 month ago

How much more of our tax dollars is this bozo going to waste hunting snipes?

monkeyhawk 6 years, 1 month ago

For all you nails on the chalkboard screechers - be careful what you wish for. If Marco Rubio has any role, maybe as VP, there go your precious illegal voters as well as legal ones. Most Hispanics and Latinos are rather conservative anyway.

akt2 6 years, 1 month ago

Jesse, Sorry it's such an issue to show your ID and/or military ID. Hope it doesn't become a problem when you need to flip that TriCare card out for yourself or your family. As you should know better than most, there are a lot more important issues in the world. Yet some feel the need to complain because they have the right to vote, but will be asked to prove their identity.

ivalueamerica 6 years, 1 month ago

I take it you missed your citizenship classes. Voting is a Constitutional right and US Citizens NOT being forced to carry papers is a Constitutional right. either you do not know or understand that document, or it means nothing to you, either are dangerous to our country for not protecting and defending it.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 1 month ago

As I pointed out above, the right to vote is not Constitutionally protected.

beatrice 6 years, 1 month ago

The Constituion does provide for election of officials "by the people." In addition, the 15th Amendment states, "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."

Amendments to the Constitution are just that, amendments. That makes them part of the Constitution by addition, thus voting is indeed Constitutionally protected. Nice try, but no cigar.

ivalueamerica 6 years, 1 month ago

Beatrice, you are going to be responsible for a meltdown. Please, you have no business to try and confuse cait with facts, they only destroy caits world. Do you want to be known as the person responsible for destroying a fragile and unique way of thinking with facts?

jesse499 6 years, 1 month ago

It's not the US Citizens thats the problem of course when enough illegals get in this country to vote away your rights you'll be the first to bitch about that to but it will be to late.

notanota 6 years, 1 month ago

When giant flying monkeys vote away your rights with forged picture IDs, you'll be extra super duper sorry, so we'd better get some laws on the books that everyone has to prove they're not secretly flying monkeys in order to vote.

That would be a much better use of our taxpayer money than, say, grammar lessons for trolls, don't you think?

jesse499 6 years, 1 month ago

I take it you are a flyin monkey then because you sound like someone who wants to vote away rights. I don't understand the problem you need ID to cash a check or use a card but God help us if we ask for one at the polls which is even more important if you ask me.

beatrice 6 years, 1 month ago

Cashing a check isn't a right. It is just that simple. Are you prepared to show your ID to practice your freedom of speech or freedom of assembly?

jesse499 6 years, 1 month ago

I just want to protect my rights by makeing sure whos voteing on them or voteing for the people voting on my rights are legal citizens whether you care about that are not. if enough illegals vote they will be telling me what my rights are and one way are another thats not going to happen.

beatrice 6 years, 1 month ago

I see. Since I care about protecting our Constitutional rights that then must mean I am in favor of allowing non-citizens to vote.

Nice leap there.

I actually don't think creating greater rules on voting that move us closer to being a police state in which citizens are required to always carry their papers and show them on demand is in our nation's best interest, especially since there is virtually no evidence that people are voting illegally.

However, those who want to control citizens and limit our rights will continue to attempt to do so one way or another.

jesse499 6 years, 1 month ago

I don't know but you can't have it both ways you have safe guards or you don't. If you don't have safe guards any one can vote with out ID but you have what you call you Consitutional rights whether your a citizen or not.But if you put in safe guards you show ID and only the people that have Consitutional rights legally get to use them. How do you want it? Some of the people in this country are going so far out to make everyone happy that there giving the country and there rights away.

notanota 6 years, 1 month ago

If I wanted to vote away rights, I'd have voted for the current administration.

monkeyhawk 6 years, 1 month ago

BO just had a news conference. He stated in response to a Hispanic reporter's question on the topic of the border, that he was afraid that E-Verify might make an employer turn down a well-qualified applicant if he/she is on the list as "illegal" when they might not be.

beatrice 6 years, 1 month ago

How exactly will they be asking to see the ID every time of people who vote with mail-in ballots? Why the preferential treatment for those who take part in mail-in ballots?

Stu Clark 6 years, 1 month ago

Did Kobach use the term "election fraud"? This entirely different from voter fraud. Election fraud is a much more serious matter as it has a much stronger potential to affect outcomes than does voter fraud, Kobach's favorite target .

OldSoldier 6 years, 1 month ago

What a crock and a waste of taxpayers' money. Keeps the right wing fanatical Republicans from dealing with the real issue: LACK OF JOBS. That should have been the focus the last legislative session. Anyone who thinks voter fraud is a statistically valid problem in Kansas does not know what he doesn't know. True ignorance.

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