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Letters to the Editor

Hateful voices

January 5, 2011

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To the editor:

There are ideologues and misinformed voices on both sides of the South Lawrence Trafficway debate. However, any objective review of the “comments” posted to your Dec. 31 story about our appeal of Judge Vratil’s trafficway ruling will confirm one fact. The bigots and bullies were overwhelmingly represented in the “build it!” camp.

One anonymous blowhard called for my employers to fire me. Another, user name “DOC1,” wanted my home address and later suggested that baseball bats should be used on those of us who continue to oppose paving the wetlands! Others couldn’t wait to see protesters mashed under bulldozers.

Far too many posted blatantly racist comments that were not removed. Several posts insinuated that the only spiritual connections Native Americans have in the wetlands come after consuming alcohol there. Such narrowmindedness has no place in our local newspaper, whether online or in print. I read repeatedly, to the point of disgust, that every aspect of Native American concerns about the SLT had been fabricated because they and their supporters “hate progress.” The SLT should be renamed the Glenn Beck Beltway. It certainly epito-mizes Beck’s worldview.

Those nitwits online don’t reflect the majority here. Unfortunately, ignorance of Haskell’s history and its relationship to these wetlands is a product of how the Journal-World consistently frames the trafficway story to favor proponents. The “reporting” of how this SLT plan would really impact these wetlands has been particularly one-sided. Lawrence is not Fox News territory.

Comments

Mike Ford 3 years, 3 months ago

referring to people as hunter gatherers doesn't sound racist at all. As recently as a decade ago, the Shawnee tribe of Oklahoma filed a claim on the former Sunflower Ammo Plant area. They had a legal right to do so as mentioned in the Federal Surplus Lands Act of 1949. This was the area where Shawnee chiefs Blackbob and Longtail led their people to as border ruffians harrassed the Shawnee Indians before and during the US Civil War. The Ho-Chunk or Winnebago Nation of Wisconsin , was allowed to claim former military land there but the Shawnees weren't allowed to do so here. The majority of the Loyal Shawnee people left this area in the 1860's. Jimmie Oyler and about 350 or so other Shawnees live in this area on land this is still considered reservation land by the US government from 1825, 1831, 1854, and 1867 treaties with the US Government. A US Supreme Court Case, BlueJacket V Johnson County Tax Commissioners from 1867, became known as the Kansas Indians Case of 1872 and established USC title 18 Section 1151, parts a, b, and c, or the legal prescription of what a reservation is. You try to distance yourself by saying this was a long time ago, It wasn't. You don't want to own your history, but we remember. How dare us remember? Kind of like the Pitts article on the Holocaust...how dare we remember.....

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whatadrag 3 years, 3 months ago

Moderate, some people can not be swayed with logic or reason. It sucks huh

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PowayBoyAtThePhog 3 years, 3 months ago

Haha I find it rather funny that people are complaining of "congestion" in Lawrence. I guess being born and raised in SoCal just gives me a different perspective. Oh yeah, and down with the man or whatever.........

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Mike Ford 3 years, 3 months ago

you live here in Lawrence because of the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854, that forced the Shawnee people to cede away 1.6 million of the 1.8 million acres that was their reservation from 1831 to 1867. The last 200,000 acres became Johnson County, Kansas, as the majority of the Loyal Shawnee people were moved to the area between Vinita and White Oak, Oklahoma, and they didn't have separate recognition from the Cherokee Nation of Okahoma from 1867 to 2000. You live here because the Shawnees were forced to cede the land away. Out of this 1.8 million acres of Shawnee land, only 110 acres of Shawnee reservation land exist as rez land east of De Soto, KS, where Jimmy Oyler has his Shawnee smoke shop. I hope you don't feel bad about being a beneficiary of stolen land. If it wasn't stolen you couldn't live here. It would still be Indian Country as it was from the 1830's to 1870's. Collective guilt and compensation can be part of a post Nazi Germany as my father witnessed at a Detriech Bonhoeffer theology seminar in Berlin in 2000 when Germans apologized to the other attendees at this conference for the atrocities of World War II Nazism, but it will probably never be part of a young historically uneducated and proudly denialistic country like the US. You have a hypocrite like Brownback backing an apology to Native Americans while clowns like Tom Coburn and other anti-Indian Republicans keep doing the anti-Indian state's rights stuff they've always done. In this country, the right hand never cares what the body it's attached to does. Keep believing in the denial, patriotism blinds people anyway...right????

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George Lippencott 3 years, 3 months ago

gl0ck0wn3r

Blame ends with those who committed the act or who weer party to it at the time.. Or maybe we should hang the Italians for the actions of the Romans

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George Lippencott 3 years, 3 months ago

tuschkahouma (anonymous) says…

Ok. I neeed to be educated

I would submit that you have a very narrow view of our history. You also have a very self interested intrepretation of that view. I do not share it. From my standpoint it is you who needs to put things in perspective. I am not defending the many things doen to first nations people that were in retrospect evil but I am not willing to accept guilt for them nor make amends for what I did not do! Collective guilt has long been a no no in our society. Are we to start on that path now?

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George Lippencott 3 years, 3 months ago

The point JAFS is that most of us alive today are not party to what happened. Most of my ancestors were not even here. Demanding we accept guilt is - well - ridiculous. What that means is that I owe no special considerations to anybody for past actions by at best distant relatives.

I am really tired of collective guilt levied by some limited number of people whether directed at the many immigrant descendents or the people of Kansas. It is just stupid to call the vast majority names. If you want any agreement from me, you must demonstrate that I had some part in what happened not simply that I might have benefited from actions by others to which I was not a part. You learned the wrong lessons from the 60s!

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Mike Ford 3 years, 3 months ago

george lippincott's comments along with many others proves that this country's educational system is 100% successful in white-washing local, regional, and national atrocities in this country. I went to college to be a teacher many years ago. Had I been censored the way my late mother was as a teacher, my head would've exploded. To the point, starting 126 years ago, Indian children from many indigenous nations were brought by force to numerous US Government and Protestant-ran boarding schools to drill and beat the Indian out of these kids by any means possible. A lot of kids wound up in cemeteries like the expansive one at Carlisle Indian School in PA and the small one here at Haskell. Even more kids disappeared because of diseases, mistreatment, and malnourishment. The kids went to the wetlands where the unhinged christians couldn't reach them to worship their own religous beliefs. This fact makes the wetlands a sacred place to indigenous people....end of story. Kids were maltreated, died, and their bodies were dumped in the wetlands...end of story. This makes the wetlands a burial area for those kids who were seen as less than human and deserving of a proper burial. end of story. I work with an 87 year old Munsee/Brothertown woman whose ancestors were beaten to death at the Gnadenhutten Moravian Mission in Gnadenhutten, Ohio, by a settler miltia after these people converted to Christianity and took European surnames in 1782. she is a direct descendant of a person murdered there. Even after the fact, President Theodore Roosevelt called this act a travesty. There are hundreds of acts like this in the 234 year history of this country. My Choctaw ancestors aren't enrolled but at least they didn't walk across a frozen Mississippi River into Arkansas in 1832 to Indian Territory by force. We know atrocity. This land was settled by lands cleared after atrocities committed many times in the name of God starting with the burning of the Pequot people in the Mystic Connecticut swamp in 1637 done by settlers in the name of God. The road being proposed along 32nd street will be another atrocity, but in a land of historically dumb people, who cares...right??? whatever we learned in school was right..right???

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George Lippencott 3 years, 3 months ago

Ok, Once more into this morass. There is a lot of talk about the perceived truly horrid way this country treated our pre European population. It may not be quite as bad as advertised but it is certainly not something of which to be proud.

Why does that have anything to do with the SLT? Just about every place in our country has some historic aspect related to some and or all of us. Despite a book and strongly held arguments, I see no special historic interest to our first nation’s population along the planned SLT alignment. Many places have far greater.

Does the actions of my great grandfather (who was in Germany) justify providing our first nations population special rights in considering planned activity by the rest of the society? Should the establishment of any such consideration be limited to those espousing it as seemingly argued here? Sorry – I do not buy it.

I guess that makes me racist. So be it. I would caution, however, in a society ruled by the majority (most of the time) it may not be a good idea to portray increasing numbers of the majority as “racist” – might just backfire.

Personally, I will fall back on the courts to rule on whether the normal decision process has adequately considered the arguments offered.

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Mike Ford 3 years, 3 months ago

McKEE, realize the history you ignored above and stop looking for the strawman to call a wacko environmentalist and admit th history that you and many other people have denied. Also, read Ross V. Federal Higway Administration, oh that's right we won, and the Rosses are plaintiffs again. This time Indians all over this country won't have their voices denied by some rigged EIS study that I witnessed a decade ago.

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northtown 3 years, 3 months ago

The so called wetlands at one time in hsitory was a flood plain,not wet year around,so they farmed it.Baker came along and had to build three levees,not to keep water out but in,making it a manmade wetland-only natural ones around here are the little spots north of town,left there by the old river channel.Also was dry ground when Haskell was put here.Gov. did that,to help the natives? Now has became a very stupid fight,waste of money-lawrence does need a bypass,maybe-Lawrence seems to not want to much industry in it's town-May bring in the working class.What Lawrence is becoming is a retirement village around a college-And all job are in the service industry-To support the retired and students-Bars and poor eating joints and just nothing else. Just vote for Shumbo,or Scummbo as we call him and see what becomes of your so called poor little city..So forget this fight,nobody will ever win,just set back and enjoy what you have-Nothing sacred around here,just a bunch of very stupid liberal folks..

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JackMcKee 3 years, 3 months ago

This editorial makes about as much sense as the increasingly long list of losing court cases the anti-SLT people have filed. Mike you've fought a good fight, but it's over. The road needs to be built and it's going to be built. Save some dignity and give up.

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Danimal 3 years, 3 months ago

I've always thought the SLT needs to be built. The 31st or 32nd street alignments just make sense. Especially now that the expansion of US 59 is almost done it would be nice to have a four lane limited access way to get around Lawrence. I never cease to be chagrined by how a few self-righteous folks can crow about saving the wetlands, while the wetlands are being more than doubled in size as a part of the SLT project.

Don't get me wrong, I've hugged a few trees and I love nature. However, the environmental impact over the last few decades of not having the SLT has been far greater than simply building it and impacting a couple dozen acres of wetland ever would've been. Cars and trucks cruising by on the highway would've produced much lower emissions and consumed much less fuel than they have been (and will continue to) grinding it out in start-and-stop traffic on 23rd.

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Mike Ford 3 years, 3 months ago

grimpeur, nothing learned huh? quips leave a lot of empty space don't they?

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Carol Bowen 3 years, 3 months ago

Take note that this LTE is about civility. But since almost everyone else has digressed, let me say that whatever conditions happened in 1985 and whatever actions transpired since then are no longer relevant. We should be looking at our transportation needs now and in the future. The past is gone. It's a shame that the SLT has become such a bitter topic.So, instead of planning for the future, I agree with MODERATE George, just let the process take its course. Let the bitterness and vindictiveness go.

I partially disagree with MODERATE George on #3 - Need. if I were a long distance driver, I would not want to bother with local traffic. The farther out the bypass, the better. If we build through the wetlands, where would Lawrence allow quick shops, restaurants and hotels and all the other stops a traveler would need? If the bypass is built farther south, development could grow around it.

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BigPrune 3 years, 3 months ago

I remember when the first leg of the SLT was constructed and the Earth Nazis destroyed a bulldozer by dumping sugar in its fuel tank. Then the construction company had to hire armed guards to protect the road grading equipment.

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allamerican4ever 3 years, 3 months ago

ok fo the tree huggers those swamp lands arent natural. so my question is who put the frogs there? wasnt indians wasnt city hall right now theyre not where they belong. when the ole boy was farming the land before it got flodded by dams he wasnt raising frogs. if the bypass never goes on we paid for a bridge over 59 hiway for nothing. so if all tree huggers put a pond in the back yard and take 10 frogs they have new homes again. how much more money you people gonna milk from the tax payer for a frog you cant even eat.

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grimpeur 3 years, 3 months ago

Noun: "Say, adjective, what happened to the cookies I left over by the direct object?"

Adjective: "Verbatim."

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Mike Ford 3 years, 3 months ago

The wetlands are a burial area because this country subscribed to the racist concepts of eugenics and phrenology and thought indigenous people to be less than human, Underfunded schools where Indian children died by the hundreds of treatable diseases and malnourishment and homesickness. I regularly talk to an 87 year old Munsee/Brothertown elder who was taken as a 7 year old from her parents and shuttled from Genoa School in Nebraska to Wyandotte School in Oklahoma and finally to Haskell where she was dismissed in 1937 for going awol from campus. She didn't see her parents on a regular basis from 1930 to 1937. The government's plan was to isolate and eradicate our cultures. With that generation, the government kind of succeeded. In closing I've read about how there are random burials at the Genoa campus historical site in Genoa, Nebraska. If one can get away with dumping deceased students that were seen as savages by that generation, it happened here. In spite of being confronted by boundless ignorance as Mr. Caron and others have, I speak of a history I've learned from listening to elders somehting the EIS people never really bothered to do. I've read Education for Extinction, Boarding School Seasons, They Call it Prairie Light, and many other sources dealing with the harshness of early 20th century Indian boarding schools. If any of the denialists ever went to the Lawrence Public Library, Half Price Books, or the Ku Union Bookstore and read an of these books, I'd hope the ignorance would pass...but then again, ignorance is bliss for some people. For those of you who will call these posts cut and pasting, I wrote them verbatim from thought. It's called studying researching and learning.

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Mike Ford 3 years, 3 months ago

furthermore, once the model of Indian boarding schools was put forth by Colonel Richard Pratt and Carlisle Indian School in Pennsylvania in 1879, other schools across this country proliferated. Haskell, Genoa, Flandreau, Pipestone, Toledo, Chilocco, Riverside, Chemawa, Intermountain, the lists goes on. Indian children were taken by force in the middle of the night by US Indian School agents and held at boarding schools to prevent their parents from teaching these kids their cultures. Tribal languages and cultures were banned by federal laws governing boarding schools in 1886, In the book, "They call it Prairie Light" about the Chilocco Indian School south of Ark City, KS, the students escaped to the far reaches of that campus to speak their languages and recite cultural practices. The same escape to preserve identity in the face of punishing christian school officials happened at Haskell in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The kids back then were shamed and punished for their cultures. It's not like when I count in Choctaw at my job now. The job of these schools as stated at Carlisie School was to kill the Indian and save the man. I'm glad to say they didn't kill the Indian in me. I'm not ashamed to be Choctaw. I announce it loudly. All of the posters who support this road never seem to get the history of what their country did to indigenous peoples as recently as the early 20th century here and as recently as the 1970's and 1980's in Canada. Lakota children at Episcopal boarding schools were emotionally and sexually tortured at church schools in the Dakotas. The wetlands are a sacred site 'because zealous christians bent on the eradication and americanization of Indian children drove the students to go there to worship traditionally

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Mike Ford 3 years, 3 months ago

ralphralph, the area from Lawrence south was the domain of the Kaw and Osage Nations until 1825 when the Kaw treatied the area between Topeka and Jeff City MO and the Osage treatied the area south of here away for passage on the Santa Fe trail. The federal government used this area as a dumping ground for the Kickapoo, Potawatomi, Lenape, Shawnee, Odawa, Peoria, Miami, two bands of Sac and Fox, Iowa, Wyandotte, Seneca, Oneida, Stockbridge, Munsee, and Chippewa peoples. Boarding schools were always built near reservations. Prior to boarding schools, the government turned churches loose on unsuspecting tribes. The Catholics went to the Miami, Peoria, Potawatomi, and Kickapoo, the Methodists went to the Wyandotte, Shawnee, and Kaw people, the Baptists went to the Potawatomi, Odawa, and Lenape, and the Moravians or Bretherens went to the Munsee and Chippewa peoples. Nevermind the separation of church and state. The denominations were the pawns of the US government in destroying indigenous cultures and denigrating indigenous religions, a movement that takes place everytime the clowns come out on these postings.

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tomatogrower 3 years, 3 months ago

Why didn't they go south of the Wakarusa. They whined that they couldn't afford a bridge across the river. By now they could have built 20 bridges across the river. Why are they so adamant about building it through the wetlands? And why haven't they put a traffic light at Louisiana and 31st? So people will complain and want the bypass that they probably won't use anyway?

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gl0ck0wn3r 3 years, 3 months ago

His first sentence was great and then he blew it. Anyone who advocates for the SLT (a road deemed "racist" by some) is automatically a racist or - as bozo constantly reminds everyone - selfish. Even the LTE can't get through a letter without engaging in the same behavior about which he complains. I would venture to guess if one actually polled on the issue that support or opposition for the SLT is probably not the domain of any one political ideology. No doubt one could find plenty of support for the SLT among "liberals" and "conservatives."

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George Lippencott 3 years, 3 months ago

Wow. This one is strongly held by some. I am going to tread where heroes shrink to go. For the record, I would benefit from the SLT if it is built in the next year or so. After that???

As I understand the opponents there are at least three significant issues.

  1. The wetlands
  2. Native American Interests
  3. Need

Now my understanding is that we are in the closing stages of a federally mandated process to address environmental impacts of a proposed government infrastructure program – the SLT. The initial EIS prepared by the state of Kansas was challenged in court and determined to be deficient with respect to the first two of the above. The state of Kansas amended the EIS to include mitigation of the loss of wetlands and a new alignment to in part address the Haskell matter. The amended EIS has been reviewed by a court of record and determined to be sufficient. That determination is being challenged.

To me it sounds as if the concerns expressed in this thread are being addressed. When the EIS process was established it was never intended to be a blank veto on infrastructure programs. It was intended to allow all concerned to express their issues and for those issues to be weighed by competent authority. That appears to be what is happening.

With respect to 3 above, I suggest that need is not confined to citizens of Lawrence and they in turn are not the sole arbiters. The SLT is part of a regional transportation initiative affecting Johnson, Shawnee and Douglas counties directly and adjacent counties peripherally. One could argue that even the southern environs of KC are involved. The state has determined the regional need. We in Lawrence can certainly challenge it but we are but one voice in a choir.

I am not sure yelling at each other is of much use. I do not see any evil here. I do see legitimate issues being worked by a process designed to do exactly that. May the court of appeals rule!

What am I missing?

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ralphralph 3 years, 3 months ago

I reject, out of hand, the concept of "Native American concerns". Those who lived in this area previously didn't have exclusive claim to it any more than those who live here now ... and what claim they did have resulted from having taken the land from someone else, directly or indirectly, just as they claim it was taken from them (an example where that might be more clearly seen might is the Black Hills ... just how did the Sioux come to "own" those Hills before the "white man" took them? Ask some Cheyenne or Blackfeet or Crow).

The whole "Native American" thing is bogus and is over. We are all humans and we are all brothers and sisters. It matters not the color of our skin, the name of our god, or the direction from which we wandered into these parts. Let's not persist in throwing up barriers to our good relations as humans, especially not when those barriers are thrown up for the sake of political expediency or some self-aggrandizing sense of entitlement.

P.S. - I love you.

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cowboy 3 years, 3 months ago

Excellent post 50 year resident ! My point exactly . Hysterical arguments by the savers not based on any facts but screamed loudly.

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Clark Coan 3 years, 3 months ago

The State Highways Commission issued a 1971 map showing the bypass going south of the Wakarusa River. The traffic engineers considered this the best route then. So, why did they change their minds? Because of political pressure exerted by the developers, bankers and the Chambercrats who would reap a greater financial reward from a route closer in.

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50YearResident 3 years, 3 months ago

This morning, 1/5/11, I traveled the western portion of the SLT, the part that has been compleated for a number of years, and the time was approximately 10:00 AM. I saw a group of wild turkeys walking in a grain field and about 50 geese overhead looking to land in the marshy area on the north side. I was behind a large truck while driving in my passenger car and neither group of wildlife were disturbed by the traffic.

So,Mike, why do you think the Eastern leg is going to cause so much havic?

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jafs 3 years, 3 months ago

Understanding this issue in context means looking at the history of the way that we treated the native population when we first came here, and for many years afterwards.

We won the war, it is true, but it also true that when something begins in violence, the effects of that continue over time in a variety of ways.

Making fun of native Americans for their beliefs, or minimizing them, fits neatly into the history of mistreatment. Also, comments about alcohol use are particularly absurd, since if we hadn't conquered and abused that population, it's unlikely alcohol use would be an issue.

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deec 3 years, 3 months ago

I drove as both a pizza delivery person and a cab driver in Lawrence. I only drove on 23rd if I was going to a destination on 23rd. There are dozens of routes across Lawrence. To go to the KC metro, for example, you can get on I-70 at the far west or Iowa exits and go south on the Eudora, K7, 435 or 635 exits. Problem solved. Can I have my $188 million now?

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gbulldog 3 years, 3 months ago

I am bored with the horse pucky arguments over the K10 bypass going through the wetlands. The bypass through the wetlands is holding up this important project. Why not reroute K10 south of Lawrence, thus making it easier to connect the new rail distribution center and Baldwin City to Topeka. A better idea may be to improve 56 and make it 4 lanes from Olatha to 75. Think of the economic possibilites for the area between Olatha and US 75. Plus no turnpike tolls to pay. This would significantly reduce traffic in Lawrence, and allow the citizens of Lawrence to commune with nature in peace and liberlism.

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CWGOKU 3 years, 3 months ago

I am still trying to figure out what to name my horse, if I had one.

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seeker_of_truth 3 years, 3 months ago

A countywide vote on the project was held in 1990 when the county sought approval for $4 million in bonds to help pay for the road. The bonds were approved by a 55 percent to 45 percent margin.

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ksriver2010 3 years, 3 months ago

Interesting - The letter to the editor is from the pres of the Save the Wetlands, but nowhere does it say that in the letter. Why? Because to point that out would invalidate most of the statements he makes as being biased I have lived in Lawrence for about six months. I am relatively new to the conversation. Some of the people commenting on here don't even live in Lawrence. But no matter. This bypass should have been moved except both sides have dug into their positions - some of the Save the Wetlands crew have been using it as an ideological badge of honor, that to be in Lawrence and be part of the left-leaning culture, you have to agree with their position. Otherwise, as Mike Caron says above (and he is not the only one saying this), you are a Glenn Beck-FoxNews-loving bigot. The city, on the other hand, has scoped out and planned the property values of where the bypass will go, and have promised choice plots to developers (as seen by the school plans recently). My point of view is that I don't like having to drive down Iowa and then 23rd street when I could be taking a bypass. I don't care where the bypass is, just get it done already. If it will be bogged down for another three years why not just move it? Move the wetlands or move the bypass. Why is this a big deal? But don't preach to me that I am not a legit Larryville resident if I don't lay down in front of a bulldozer.

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CorkyHundley 3 years, 3 months ago

The manmade Clinton lake more that makes up for the manmade slough south of Larryville.

Fair is fair.

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75x55 3 years, 3 months ago

"There are ideologues and misinformed voices on both sides of the South Lawrence Trafficway debate"

So, I suppose we only get to see Mr. Caron's biased side, with selected fringe examples. Whatever. His first statement (noted here) is the most valid presented.

The 'wetlands" are like so many other manufactured leftie/anti-authority 'causes' one finds in Larrytown - something to give self-important, underemployed people a way to keep themselves occupied and feeling 'fulfilled'.

Build the road, expand the swampage, and let's move on to the next pointless ideologically-driven spat.

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Steven Gaudreau 3 years, 3 months ago

"Those nitwits online don’t reflect the majority here." Now maybe the following was "fabricated" but I have been told there was a vote on this matter years ago and the majority voted "yes" for the SLT. Is this true or is this another lie being spread by the "bigots and bullies"?

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Eybea Opiner 3 years, 3 months ago

The wetlands weren't wet in 1950, and the Indians didn't have any spiritual connection with that land in 1950.

The wetlands are being moved; they won't be "paved over." Get over it.

By the way, I wish we would have stopped all development in 1948, then most of the "no development" folks around here wouldn't be here in the first place.

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cowboy 3 years, 3 months ago

Mr. Caron , YOUR letter is filled with anger ! While the discourse here can get a bit rough at times the opinions are as valid as yours. The continuous legal wrangling and complete lack of any compromise from the " savers " puts you in a position to be seen in a negative light. Are you really doing anyone any good at this point ?

There are some 300 acres being converted to wetlands as we speak to mitigate any impact that it may have on wildlife. The save argument grows weaker by the day. Having lived in the gulf coast roads thru wetlands are common , impact little.

One has to wonder what could be if there was compromise that would better the futures of Haskelites. Perhaps a number of scholastic endowments for gifted native students to pursue grad level programs , perhaps a world class environmental lab located in the wetlands new or old. Tradeoffs , sellout , maybe a bit of both but the end result would be benefits for Haskell students now and long into the future. Your personal crusade has in fact brought negative light on Haskell with many in this community. The Pacific NW has learned how to work together in dealing with devo on native grounds by having archaeologists on site during any excavation and stopping work if any sites are found , working with tribes and gov't , developers to work thru and at times cancel projects. It's time for some compromise and finding a way to benefit all.

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obamarocks 3 years, 3 months ago

Funny, I consider myself very democrat, yet I think that the SLT should be built too.

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consumer1 3 years, 3 months ago

Quick call and emergency meeting of tree huggers international and someone give this boy a hug. He feels so threatened by everyone. He must be the only one out of the 90,000 some people who live in Lawrence that really knows what Lawrence needs.

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Les Blevins 3 years, 3 months ago

Paul Getto has it right. A northeastern bypass would have made a lot more sense and saved the taxpayers a mountain of money; partly because it would have saved a lot of money that has gone to lawyers and partly because it would only need to have been about 4 miles long as opposed to the 14 mile long special highway for developers that the west Lawrence traffic way was designed to be. In other words the 14 mile long boondoggle was a bad idea from the get-go and has already cost twice as much as a saner project would have cost and it still isn't completed and probably never will be.

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grimpeur 3 years, 3 months ago

Mike, most of the posters in here aren't in on either side of the debate, because they can't hear what anybody else is saying and because the important debate isn't going on in here anyway. Doesn't stop a lot of folks from imagining it is, though.

This forum exists for little more than allowing people to 1) express their real (and, yes, often ugly, crass or stupid) selves without any responsibility, and 2) avoid doing the mental work of defending or truly discussing their positions face-to-face, let alone considering other points of view held by real people. So referring to it as any type of barometer of the public discourse going on elsewhere is pointless, worrying about it even less so.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 3 months ago

And the haters return, slobbering hate and bigotry like Pavlov's dog.

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kernal 3 years, 3 months ago

Michael Caron, President of Save the Wakarusa Wetlands. And, likely commentor on that story?

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kernal 3 years, 3 months ago

Michael Caron, President of Save the Wakarusa Wetlands. And, likely commentor on that story?

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OutlawJHawk 3 years, 3 months ago

The Baker "wetlands" was farmland and used for farming years ago. It became wetlands becasue of man, not because of some natural mystyical phenomenom (newsflash: the Baker Wetlands is not one of the seven natural wonders of the world). It is time for man to now change its use again...or at least some of it to a highway. It was early man's larger brain and ability to reason that seperated him from other primates. It is time to continue man's progress in Lawrence by finishing the highway. Those against this man-made progress need to climb back into trees so they can be with other primates not capable of higher thought and reasoning.

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Tom Shewmon 3 years, 3 months ago

I'm especially glad to report also today, that I've found Glen Beck to be nothing more than a great time to turn the volume way down and catch a nap with my pups on a cold winter's afternoon. He's become very boring and his melodramatic style has become extremely shopworn. Also, to reiterate, I never listen to Rush or any conservative talk radio. But more than anything, I AM glad to report that I have perused (never commenting) dailykos, huffie, moveon, mediamatters and some other various far-left forums and goodness gracious!! There is no hatred like you'll find there. Wow!

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Tom Shewmon 3 years, 3 months ago

This is exactly why it's good to be non-anon and super-duper well-behaved like I am on this award-winning and expertly moderated forum. wink wink

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kansastruthteller 3 years, 3 months ago

It is interesting that one would write to complain about bullying and yet fill their letter with name-calling and many derogatory comments about those that share a different view point. And, I do not understand why the writer decided to drag Glenn Beck into the debate. Beck, while you may disagree with his political and world views, does not promote hate or bigotry. To suggest that he does displays an obvious bias and desperate need to sensationalize the argument in some failed attempt to distract readers from the main point.

Please try to do better with future letters.

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CorkyHundley 3 years, 3 months ago

Bigots? Blowhards? Bullies?

Name calling and profiling is the RDR 4 Genies modus operandi.

Their methods are so viciously "Hateful".

Why can't they just "get along"?

This guy is the point man for.......what?..... Nature? Has he raised a sappling grapefruit tree for 50 years in his garage?

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Flap Doodle 3 years, 3 months ago

To summarize Mike's LTE," "everyone" who "disagrees" with "me" is "stupid" and "racist"."

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seeker_of_truth 3 years, 3 months ago

This was approved by voters approx 20 years ago, should have been built then. Cost now will be at least 10 times as much, but the complainers are very proud of the millions they cost the taxpayers.

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HollisBrown 3 years, 3 months ago

The whole SLT debate is such a no-brainer. They should make a comedy called "The Topeka-Lawrence Express". Very handy for commuting from Lawrence to Topeka, but otherwise worthless. I mean, please. The stupid trafficway ends at Hwy 59, then you get the option of driving thru town either on 31st to Haskell to get back to K10, or heading to the nightmare of 23rd St. This should have been finished 20 yrs. ago. If you care so much about the mosquito infested Wetlands, then move to Montana and build a 8'x10' cabin in the woods. It worked out great for Ted Kaczynski.

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Paul R Getto 3 years, 3 months ago

Good points. It's obvious this controversy will continue. If there was a real need for a 'bypass' around Lawrence, they would have built it years ago, connecting K-10 to the Turnpike by going north east of Lawrence. The existing 'bypass' is just a development scheme. You go Haskell!

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