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Letters to the Editor

Voter fraud

February 19, 2011

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To the editor:

Who has investigated voter fraud in Kansas? While living in Missouri some years ago, we saw trucks taking men from one part of town to another to vote. It was common knowledge they were all paid a dollar to do this. If ID’s had been required, this would not have happened. Now I am ashamed that we did nothing. We were young. I guess we had not matured to the point of calling “foul” when we observed this.

Friends of ours who have come from other countries and want to become citizens of the United States have gone through the process, and the expense, to legally accomplish their dreams. Why should any person who has slipped into this country illegally even be allowed to stay? Why should they be given benefits for which you and I are paying the price?

It is a great privilege to vote. I will never hesitate to show my identification to assure my qualification. If I cannot physically appear at the polling place, I can ask for a mail-in ballot. What is so tough about that? I appreciate Kobach’s looking ahead to prevent voter fraud. The only minority that would complain are the illegal people and those who want their votes.

Comments

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

I wonder how you knew they were "taking men from one part of town to another to vote. It was common knowledge they were all paid a dollar to do this." Did you ask the driver or passengers? Did they admit they were doing this? Did you sell your vote,so you were aware of the going rate? What were you doing while watching these truckloads of people? Your story doesn't seem to make sense.

windex 3 years, 10 months ago

And what difference would it have made if they had id's? You have to give a valid name to the workers at the polls. Are you saying that they were illegal aliens who somehow managed to show up at polling stations by the truckload and just walk in, take ballots, fill them out and vote? Have you ever worked at a polling station during an election? There are plenty of checks and balances in place.

notanota 3 years, 10 months ago

Not to mention that there's no guarantee someone being paid a buck is going to actually vote the way you told them to vote once that secret ballot is in front of them. There's a whole lotta fishy to that LTE.

appleaday 3 years, 10 months ago

You should start boycotting all businesses that hire illegal aliens. Every employer, under current law, is required to obtain documents that prove the citizenship of every employee. If that law were enforced (a big fine for each employee not documented) employers might actually stop hiring illegal workers. Without employment, these folks would head somewhere else. If you're not sure which businesses do this, start looking at meat packing plants to start -- they're notorious for doing this.

appleaday 3 years, 10 months ago

I was responding to the letter writer. It doesn't make sense to me that the folks like Kobach who want illegal immigration to stop don't go to the source. I guess it's just easier to pick on those with the least.

JayCat_67 3 years, 10 months ago

So what you are saying is that it was "common knowledge" that they were committing voter fraud, and yet neither you nor all the other people who shared this "common knowledge" reported it so it could be prosecuted under existing law. However, if there had been another, even more restrictive law, then one of you would have done something... Nope. 'fraid I'm gonna have to call Bull (caca) on this one.

rtwngr 3 years, 10 months ago

First, the author said they were young and immature. Second, some neighborhoods you learn to keep your mouth shut unless you want someone showing up in the middle of the night and beating the daylights out of you. You can call "bull" all you want but I have a friend or two in Wyandotte county that know of some deceased members of the community still on the voter rolls.

notanota 3 years, 10 months ago

Uh huh. They know this, do they. And they've verified this how? And exactly what number were we talking about and how close were the elections in question?

ignati5 3 years, 10 months ago

This letter describes what sounds more like a case of citizen profiling than voter fraud. The writer concedes that she was an immature kid at the time, which might invite thoughts of raising the voting age but hardly lends credence to her outlandish tale. Furthermore, the incident supposedly occured - in Missouri! Still, such urban legends provide fodder for Mr. Kobach's ill-starrred assault on voting rights here in Kansas; spreading them in a public forum suggests that the writer may yet lack in mature judgment.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 10 months ago

"Illegal" immigrants very likely do not wander about trying to vote. I assume they prefer living under the radar and being at work.

If illegal immigrants are such a problem bust the employers. There are laws in place to deal with such ..... are they not being enforced?

Stop this bogus showroom politics crap.

grammaddy 3 years, 10 months ago

Why does citizenship have to be so expensive? Where does that money go?

BigPrune 3 years, 10 months ago

These voter fraud incidents only happen in Democrat stong holds across the country. That's why the commies on here cry foul when someone says they want to stop it.

windjammer 3 years, 10 months ago

I've never read a comment from you that didn't refer to the left. Since you seem to not like the left that makes me proud to be left of you. Stay right we don't need you.

handlon 3 years, 10 months ago

I am wondering if Ms.Penny's family business, Penny Concrete , has EVER hired an undocumented worker in the history of their business. I myself have seen what could be "Illegals" working on their crews. Not sure, but many construction businesses hire them, Seems to me that it is not fair for companies like Penny Concrete to hire laborers from Mexico to reap a financial benefit from them, while also complaining that they live here...If Penny's can prove that every worker is documented and that they have always used citizens...great! I for one, don't believe it! I think Ms. penny is a hypocrite. ,

ignati5 3 years, 10 months ago

I don't think it is fair to pry into the private lives or business associations of contributors to the LTE column. The letter stands as deficient on its textual content; which, in this case, is not hypocracy but pure inanity.

Shelley Bock 3 years, 10 months ago

I can't believe that I'm actually agreeing with Merill, but he's 100% correct.

I was chatting with a young prosecutor last week when our conversation drifted to the Secretary of States proposals. (For your information, we aren't "commies" or "left-wingers" either.) For various reasons, both of us have had signficant contact (not in our present jobs) with individuals who were "illegal immigrants". It has been our observation that it is ridiculous to conclude that illegals want to vote. They want jobs, not one, but two, jobs and not the ballot. Why would anyone with illegal status go to the government to give the powers to be their name and address in order to vote? Why not just put up a flashing neon sign saying "Illegal Here" on the door? That would be easier.

Illegal immigrants don't want to vote, they don't want to be seen, they don't want to be identified, they want to, as Merill says, "fly under the radar". They do want to work and be paid. So, if you are sincere and honest in your desire to stop illegal immigration, prosecute the employers, not the economic slaves. Ah, but the Republican office holders don't want their contributors and friends to suffer. So go after the worker, they can be replaced.

Where is the evidence of voter fraud in Kansas? Who has been prosecuted? Where is the problem? Where's the beef? Quit telling stories about "voter fraud" and show some evidence. Why haven't we seen the specific evidence which demonstrates where, when and whom was involved in voter fraud.

Does it exist?

Hepburn will now retire to contemplate how he could possibly agree with Merill. Wonders never cease.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 10 months ago

Voter fraud is investigated in Kansas. Current law does a fantastic job of keeping down voter fraud.

In states that require a photo ID to vote, the number of voter fraud cases has not decreased. Nor has it increased. There are the same smattering of cases each year.

Voter ID laws have not proven to reduce voter fraud.

Voter ID laws have not proven to increase prosecutions of voter fraud.

So if current law in Kansas is just as successful as in states with voter ID, then what is the point? What is the real goal?

Getaroom 3 years, 10 months ago

It is interesting to note that those on this blog who scream liberals this and liberals that are stumping to give yet more control to government instead of less. Voter ID's are yet one more unnecessary layer of red tape and more intrusion into an individuals life. If these ID cards would actually make a difference in illegal voting that would be one thing, but there are enough checks and balances in place to secure the voting booth so long as those guidelines that are in place now are adhered to. No matter how many precautions are taken to stop voter fraud, clever desperate minds will create a work around. I say stop this march toward greater intrusion in it's tracks.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

This letter has some of the most disconnected logic I've seen.

So a truckload of voters being transported to illegally vote was known by all, and somehow the requirement of an ID would have stopped it? Are you saying that the poll workers let them vote illegally simply because they didn't need an ID? That's downright idiotic.

Voting fraud on this scale, which is the only way it could ever affect the outcome of an election, is not a symptom of a broken electoral system. It's a symptom of a corrupt society and government, and voter ID will have no effect on that.

But stuffing the ballot box is not the only way to manipulate an election, and it's just too obvious not to eventually get a backlash. That's why it just doesn't happen anymore. There are much more subtle ways of achieving the same thing, and both of the major parties do it. They do everything they can to make sure that no other parties can establish themselves and have equal footing to compete in elections. Throw in all of the special interest money (and let's face it, 90% of it is really just corporate money) that's available only to them, and then add as many vote suppression devices as possible (voter ID is just the latest one,) and voila, elections are a sham.

camper 3 years, 10 months ago

Every time I go to vote, they check my name against a register. Several years ago, when I had moved, I did not realize that I could not vote at my former booth. They told me where I must go and I think they also said something about absentee ballot. Because it was late and only a primary, I just made sure I knew the next time where it was I needed to go.

The last thing an illegal immigrant is going to do is put himselef/herself in a position where credentials will be checked and therfore risk deportation. This story about trucking people around seems contrived, and I'd like to know how someone would be suckered into doing this. How many people fit into this truck? Ten? Even if this did happen (which I doubt), it would not be a factor in election result. And furthermore, who was the dude driving the truck? Who was he working for?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

Incidents with the trucked-in voters did happen in the Pendergast era in KC, and probably elsewhere where there was machine politics/organized crime. But it was hardly a secret, and neither was the corruption that allowed it to happen. If there had been an ID requirement at the time, it's pretty certain that the "proper" ID's would have been produced for these voters who were getting paid to vote early, and vote often.

Fortunately, we've eliminated this rather blatant form of electoral fraud, but our elections are hardly clean. But Kobach isn't looking for clean elections-- he's looking for ways to manipulate them to his and his party's advantage.

Brent Garner 3 years, 10 months ago

It is really very simple to commit voter fraud and not get caught. Even when IDs are required.

First, one must have access to the voter lists. Implies inside cooperation. Second, one must know who on the list is really no longer in the precinct. A short search online may reveal that. Third, if IDs are required, create a false ID. Fourth, show up at the polls and claim to be the "missing" voter.

Our voter rolls are not purged very often. In fact, the election officials are generally forbidden from removing a voter. Case in point, my daughter married and moved to Florida. I so informed the election officials. Yet, that next election, there her name was on the voter registration rolls. I asked about this and learned that unless the voter themself writes to the election officials and informs them of the voter's removal from the area, the election official cannot remove the name from the list. Similar rules apply to those who die. The result is that our voter lists are hugely inflated and inaccurate. This creates easy opportunity for nefarious activity to create false votes. Similar actions have been referred to as "graveyard votes" when the names of those who have died are used to allow someone to vote under their name. Such frauds have been found in numerous places. Chicago comes to mind as one.

camper 3 years, 10 months ago

1st. 2nd, 3rd, 4th.....It is easy to commit fraud. Why would anybody in their right mind want to go thru the 4 stages of voter fraud, as you present above. Especially when there is no benefit./

Brent Garner 3 years, 10 months ago

As someone else has posted, an individual probably would not be able to do what I outlined. But, a political machine could and they could and would employ individuals of any stripe to be the actual "voters". Those could be political lackeys, illegals, etc.

ivalueamerica 3 years, 10 months ago

Mary Lou,

I think you are making the whole thing up.

camper 3 years, 10 months ago

Voter fraud wil never come from the lowest level of ilegal imigrants. If it is to occur, it will come from political machines who might find a way to stuff ballot boxes and commit fraud. Voter fraud from illegal put in a truck and travelling from district to district is about as miniscule as a UFO landing aliens to do the same.

I'm more worried about political offices making robo calls and telling people to vote....on the wrong day like the Rebublicans did right here in Kansas. This is where the true fraud lies. Ironic isn't it.

barlowtl 3 years, 10 months ago

Voter suppression is one of the most comon forms of fraud, usually done in national election years when turnout could be high enough to make a difference, also years after a census when precinct lines are redrawn & the combination of 1irst time voters & new locations could create confusion. Indiana is talking of having fewer polling places which could make for longer lines. If there is an added expense of getting a "certified" ID that could have the same effect as a poll tax which was declared unconstitutional. These are all methods of voter fraud, many of which have been found in various locations around the country & are apt to be done by officials rather than individuals. Illegal aliens have nothing to gain by attempting to vote but it makes a good scary story.

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