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Archive for Wednesday, February 16, 2011

Arizona-style illegal immigration law to be pursued in Kansas

February 16, 2011

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— An influential Kansas House member is pursuing a proposal on illegal immigration similar to the law enacted in Arizona last year.

Kansas House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lance Kinzer told The Associated Press on Wednesday he's drafting an immigration bill.

The Olathe Republican says it will include a provision directing law enforcement officers to check the status of people they stop legally, if they have a reasonable suspicion the individuals are in the country illegally.

He expects another House committee to agree Thursday to sponsor it.

Kinzer said he and other lawmakers are working with Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a law professor on leave known nationally for helping draft the law in Arizona.

Comments

frank mcguinness 3 years, 10 months ago

Sweet, I love it when the Repubs waste money and time on ridiculous agenda issues. Even so called conservatives will be fighting to elect a dem soon enough.

llama726 3 years, 10 months ago

1) What is a looser? 2) Speaking of American jobs, I didn't know the government did the hiring for the business. Oh, they didn't. A greedy business owner saw savings and hired an illegal immigrant. That's the owner's fault.

Fred Mertz 3 years, 10 months ago

Why is it ridiculous to keep our state free of illegal immigrants?

scott3460 3 years, 10 months ago

It is not, but it is focusing effort in the wrong place. Illegal employers are drawing these people to the US. You can waste time stopping individuals here and there, I suppose, but the more effective way to put a stop to the flow of illegal immigrants is to clamp down (hard) on the traitorous employers who seek their illegal labor. That, of course, will never happen because the right wingers love to maintain a desperate working class and illegal immigrants create competition for scarce jobs.

Scott Morgan 3 years, 10 months ago

Why not do both, clamp on both ends.

scott, a prosperous America is good for business.

scott3460 3 years, 10 months ago

Well, I can support a clamp on both ends approach. I don't know that your thought that a prosperous America is good for business is shared by many on the right, however. A prosperous people enact laws to protect their rights and environment, laws which are "bad for business." A desperate people fall for the sort of "if it hurts business it's bad for us" foolishness that we've seen in the last few years and scoundrels are able to take advantage to suck the nation's wealth out of the middle class and to themselves. And, of course, business sees 30M invaders here as nothing more than more customers and will not be happy until we are a nation of continuous strip malls, Dollar Stores and Walmarts from coast to coast.

notanota 3 years, 10 months ago

It's ridiculous to require legal citizens to carry their birth certificate with them at all times, which is what Arizona's law effectively does. And let's face facts. Nobody's going to ask for one if you don't have brown skin.

Now, on top of that, we have the unconstitutionality of it all, which means it just costs the taxpayers money to defend a law we all know won't stand. That's money we could use for special education, the arts commission, and other efforts our state is apparently too stupid to fund.

question4u 3 years, 10 months ago

And "a reasonable suspicion" that "the individuals are in the country illegally" will be based on the fact that they have an "olive complexion"?

notanota 3 years, 10 months ago

I know people who both have an olive complexion and can't speak English and are here very much legally.

monkeyhawk 3 years, 10 months ago

How about a trade? Eliminate illegals for pot. Er, med marijuana....

cowboy 3 years, 10 months ago

Morons You have no place to put them even if you do take some into custody , you have no money to create a facility.

Morons

monkeyhawk 3 years, 10 months ago

Your comma placement has always bugged me.

cowboy 3 years, 10 months ago

nothing more pathetic than a grammar cop on an internet forum

monkeyhawk 3 years, 10 months ago

au contraire, your post just struck me as quite ironic with your name calling.... very appropriate.

Katara 3 years, 10 months ago

They can put them out in rural Kansas to help repopulate the area.

pace 3 years, 10 months ago

If you want to be effective, follow the money, Make state and federal law about what happens if you employ illegal workers.The corporations and industries who hire illegal workers should be stopped. We need more follow the money laws and less follow the color laws.
The agricultural industry will pay more if they have to hire legally, but America will end up with real savings. We have winked and nodded about people hiring the illegal worker, we punish the illegal worker and let industry use the illegal worker, the industries can cheat the illegal worker, deport them and then hire a new one. That practice is not really helpful to the american work force or to national security. The government needs a real working temporary visa program if it is necessary for Agriculture. The laws should protect citizens not piecemeal bus them to the next state or back and forth across the border. Smart laws follow the money.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 10 months ago

Do the same for the migrant construction industry.

scott3460 3 years, 10 months ago

How much extra taxes would be paid and how much unemployment compensation payments would be avoided if we rid ourselves of the 30M illegal immigrants?

But the right wingers would not have an excuse to dismantle the New Deal if they took effective steps to correct illegal immigration.

So they won't.

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

You are correct. However, there is no political will to actually address illegal immigration, because it is good for business, particularly the food industry. Instead, we get all these "feel good" laws that penalize and marginalize the workers. On this forum, I have suggested those who feel strongly about illegal immigration express their outrage by boycotting corporations that utilize illegal alien labor. A simple google search provides ample starting points. The response was "how should I know which head of lettuce was picked by an illegal worker?" Those who are outraged about illegal immigrants can't even bother to find out which companies exploit workers to put cheap food on their table.

scott3460 3 years, 10 months ago

"how should I know which head of lettuce was picked by an illegal worker?"

Well one way is to buy local produce from a grower you know. If everyone in our community did that once a month during this spring and summer, think of impact that would have.

Patriot2 3 years, 10 months ago

Those damned Republicans. Wanting to stop paying for medical assistance through the states Medicaid system (aka taxpayer dollars) for undocumented non-citizens (aka illegal immigrants) living among us. Wanting to stop paying for housing assistance (aka taxpayer dollars), food stamps (aka taxpayer dollars) through the federal and state Medicaid system. Wanting to stop giving tuition assistance (aka taxpayer dollars) to illegal immigrants when our own children have to pay full price..... Wanting to stop your auto insurance from sky rocketing from having to cover costs for undocumented, non-citizens who are un-insured (aka illegal immigrants). Or could that actually save hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars?

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

Or could it be that you just made all that up? Got any credible sources for your claims?

Patriot2 3 years, 10 months ago

The Associated Press: May 21, 2004 TOPEKA – Gov. Kathleen Sebelius signed a bill Thursday granting some illegal immigrants a tuition break at state universities and colleges. The new law, which takes effect on July 1, will extend in-state tuition, which is lower than tuition for nonresidents, to illegal immigrants who have attended a Kansas high school at least three years and graduated or earned a general educational development certificate in Kansas. Sebelius had promised to sign the measure when it passed the Legislature earlier this month. “Many students were on the edge of their seats, wondering, ‘Can I go to school this fall?” Elias Garcia, executive director of the Kansas Hispanic, and Latino American Affairs Commission. “The answer is a resounding yes.” The Associated Press: January 22, 2003 Topeka — Proponents of allowing illegal immigrants to obtain Kansas driver's licenses pressed their case Tuesday with legislators and Gov. Kathleen Sebelius. "We want to do the right thing. This law, as it is now, is making criminals out of hardworking, decent people," said Emira Palacios, a member of the Wichita-based group Sunflower Community Action/Hispanos Unidos. Currently, immigrants seeking driver's licenses must present proof that they are in the United States legally. That law was passed in 2000 after two Colorado residents were caught in Salina bringing immigrants to Kansas to obtain licenses. A bill revising the law failed in the House last year. Palacios said illegal immigrants drive without licenses anyway. Sebelius will continue to support efforts to grant licenses to immigrants and urged the group to work with legislators in both parties, Corcoran-Basso said. Kansas would gain financially by granting licenses to illegal immigrants, the advocates said. Spokeswoman Sulma Mercado estimated between 30,000 and 50,000 illegal residents live in Kansas, representing between $540,000 and $900,000 in potential driver's license fees. Rep. Tom Klein, who supported last year's bill, said legislators are subjecting illegal immigrants to a double standard. The advocates said they also wanted to ease the rules for establishing bank accounts and to charge in-state tuition for immigrants at state universities. *Do you need more creditable proof?**

llama726 3 years, 10 months ago

Hey, I bet a 14 year old made the decision on their own (legally they can't by our laws so whatever it's cool) to come to America just to go to our famous Kansas high schools.

Genius, they got brought here by their parents, and that law requires them to get citizenship. I don't see their parents graduating from KS high schools, generally I don't think they let 30+ year old people go to HS as students.

Katara 3 years, 10 months ago

Where's the part where illegal immigrants are receiving food stamps, housing assistance and Medicaid?

You have to be a U.S. citizen to receive any of those in KS with the exception of very limited emergency aid.

andreainkansas 3 years, 10 months ago

Resident tuition rates is not a taxpayer subsidy. It is in fact, the Board of Regents setting out a criteria for residency status for tuition purposes that makes sense - attending a KS high school.

"Resident tuition is granted to a student graduating from a Kansas high school accredited by the Kansas State Board of Education who meets all of the following: 1. qualifies for admission and begins classes at an accredited Kansas college or university within six months of high school graduation and3 2. meets qualifications for Kansas resident for tuition purposes at the time of graduation from high school or within twelve (12) months prior to graduation from high school and 3. maintains physical residence and maintains continuous fall and spring enrollment. "

As for the food stamps, Medicaid, etc., i.e. your "costs of illegal immigration," they are patently BS lies. Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for public benefits. No TANF, no TAF, no "welfare."

Oh, but here comes the "anchor baby" argument...

For once, I'd like to hear a rational anti-immigrant argument from someone who's actually studied the law. And before you cite KKrisKobach, note that just because he says something is so, doesn't make it true. He was essentially laughed out of the 10th Circuit and told to retake Civ Pro when he appealed his in-state tuition humiliation. Thus the fact that there are people who have been lawyers for mere months and won more cases than that bozo.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 10 months ago

The obvious answer is that we're dealing with a population that by their very presence they are skirting the law. To suggest that illegal immigrants are not getting benefits because that would not be permitted is foolhardy. They have shown themselves adept at breaking the law by coming here. It's simply beyond reason to believe they would not avail themselves of these benefits if they could skirt around those laws as well.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

" It's simply beyond reason to believe they would not avail themselves of these benefits if they could skirt around those laws as well."

I agree. But the fact is that they can't easily skirt those laws, and very, very few succeed in doing so-- and most probably never try, preferring to stay as far under the radar as possible.

Do you have any evidence that significant numbers of illegal immigrants successfully forge citizenship documents well enough (or purchase them from those who can) to get these benefits?

jhawkinsf 3 years, 10 months ago

I have no hard evidence. Just common sense. I know it's become very difficult and expensive to come here. Yet here they are. They are getting forged papers to work so it's likely that getting documentation to get additional benefits is certainly possible. And if they are staying under the radar as you suggest (I'm guessing you mean working for cash under the table), then they are not paying taxes.
As I've said in previous discussions, certain sanctuary cities in America have a policy of not asking immigration status. San Francisco has a law forbidding it. So every service available to a tax paying citizen is available to every illegal immigrant. I just can't believe that none are availing themselves of these services. But proof, well this forum is not a court of law.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

" And if they are staying under the radar as you suggest (I'm guessing you mean working for cash under the table), then they are not paying taxes. "

They are paying sales and property taxes (through their rent) and unless their employer is hiding his own income, any cash payments he pays to employees must be shown as his income, meaning income and FICA taxes are also being paid.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 10 months ago

Everyone pays sales tax. That's not the tax we're talking about. Renter's don't pay property tax, though the landlord probably factors that in when determining the rent. And many cash businesses pay in cash then don't report it at all. As I've said many many times, prosecute both the employer and the illegal immigrant. Are you suggesting that because someone pays sales tax then they do not have to pay income tax? Sweet deal, let me sign up for that one.
And to my observation that the illegal immigrants do receive multiple social services that they are not entitled to, your response is ...?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

"Renter's don't pay property tax, though the landlord probably factors"

Yep, even immigrants. And in Lawrence, that's now approaching ten percent. I'd say that qualifies as paying taxes.

"Renter's don't pay property tax, though the landlord probably factors that in when determining the rent."

Landlords figure all of their expenses into rent, just like every other business. And they pass them on to their tenants. So, again, unless you apply some convoluted logic, renters do indeed pay property taxes.

You want to claim that these immigrants pay no taxes. You assert many scenarios to support that contention, but none of them are the least bit convincing.

You also want to assert that they are claiming many government benefits that are NOT available to anyone but legal residents.

Again, not convincing.

I choose to believe the many studies that show that these immigrants pay in more than they get out in the way of government benefits, rather than what you feel in your bones.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

The first part of the last post should have quoted this-- "Everyone pays sales tax."

jhawkinsf 3 years, 10 months ago

You keep twisting things. Everyone pays certain taxes. But we're talking about income taxes on wages paid under the table. For all I know, immigrantsmay be paying taxes in their country of origin. That's not what we're talking about. Perhaps payments to those smuggling them over the border could be considered a tax. Again, not what we're talking about. Sales tax, not what we're talking about. Property tax, not what we're talking about. It's the income tax they are not paying if they are working for cash under the table. And many do. Go to any sanctuary city in America, go to S.F. and see that Every manner of language is spoken, except English. They are lined up at the service providers. Go to any hardware store or Home Depot. There are dozens of people looking to work for the day, paid in cash. Add those numbers that can be seen every day and the numbers total into the millions. Yes, some pay income taxes and receive no benefit from them. But many other do not. I've seen studies from both sides. La Raza says one thing and a conservative think tank says another. I saw the long lines at the agencies and passed the thousands waiting for day labor. It's not some abstract concept in many parts of the nation and it's not surprising that those states are struggling more that others.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

This threaded thing is getting silly.

See reply at the bottom of the page.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 10 months ago

Not a whit of this is reality. You should have just posted about The Smurfs.

tomatogrower 3 years, 10 months ago

You obviously no nothing about Medicare or food stamps. You can't get them unless you are a citizen. I'm not even sure if people with work visas can get them. To get tuition assistance you have to be a citizen. Where do you get your facts? Who is feeding you these lies?

Patriot2 3 years, 10 months ago

From U.S. Department of Health & Human Services website, HHS.gov under Civil Rights tab, Question number 3......

Question: What are the rules for Medicaid, including a Medicaid expansion under SCHIP, with respect to questions regarding citizenship, immigration status, and social security number information on state applications?

Answer: Citizenship/Immigration Status: States must require disclosure of the citizenship or immigration status only of the person or persons for whom Medicaid benefits are being sought (i.e., the applicant(s)). (Social Security Act ? 1137(d); 42 U.S.C. ? 1320b-7(d)). For example, if a parent applies for Medicaid on behalf of his or her child, the citizenship or immigration status of the parent (or other household members) is irrelevant to the child's eligibility, and the state may not require that parents disclose the information. As noted in Question 11 below, even asking non-applicants to disclose such information, without stating clearly that this information is not required, raises concerns under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, if the effect is to deter otherwise eligible applicants who are protected against discrimination by Title VI from applying for benefits.

States may not deny benefits because the applicant (or a person acting on behalf of the applicant) did not certify or document the citizenship or immigration status of persons in the applicant's household for whom benefits are not being sought.

These same rules apply to Medicaid expansion programs under SCHIP.

andreainkansas 3 years, 10 months ago

Yeah, the applicant is the person receiving the benefit. And the applicant must be a citizen or qualified alien, which does not include undocumented individuals.

Mike1949 3 years, 10 months ago

Don't you know that conservative here in the USA don't need facts to make accusations? If they can think it, they will claim it. Did you know that some think Obama is not only an illegal alien, but a real life alien from some other planet. Seriously, I heard a republican quote Fox news the other day when he was putting down our president. Some of these people are really really out there and sooner or later, they ARE going to be dangerous. Oh yea, that is right, we have already have had a few premeditated murders instigated by the Republicans!

jhawkinsf 3 years, 10 months ago

We need to prosecute both the employer and the illegal immigrant. Taking one approach or the other will never succeed.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

"Kinzer said he and other lawmakers are working with Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a law professor on leave known nationally for helping draft the law in Arizona."

WTF? He's may be on leave from his law professor gig, but he has a full-time job as Sec. of State-- a job that doesn't in any way deal with immigration issues.

blindrabbit 3 years, 10 months ago

We'll have to change the name of Free State High School to Bigoted State High School!

Gregory Newman 3 years, 10 months ago

there you go again a republican is pushing the bill and you blame the demo's. Take that hood and cape off and move to Kentucky this is free state.

tomatogrower 3 years, 10 months ago

I wonder if Kobach will give Kansas a discount to defend this law? Doubt it. He's in it for the money.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 10 months ago

With every new piece of legislation I see coming out of the Topeka statehouse I am more and more thankful that I will be leaving it soon. I have no doubt I am not the only one who feels that way and I have no doubt there are people that will refuse to come here because of it.

Scott Morgan 3 years, 10 months ago

Cait, you have taken many shots at me. Now listen, and listen good. You do not like Kansas. Free country. The Wismos are leaving too. Leaving with very fond memories of a unique and historical state I may add. A state giving me more opportunity than I ever imagined. I will always be proud of Kansas.

Are you moving to Shangra La California? Seems you would like it out there. Where city inspectors drive Lincolns, unscientific based global warming laws drive small business out, and welfare recipients swap a state issued credit card at the horse tracks. They in California love to pass unfunded social mandates. Forward thinking folks out there. Sure hope dumb ole Kansas doesn't mimic the Great State of California.

Keep cutting Topeka, Keep cutting.

The state is not dying as you must think, in fact is indeed listed as one with a very diversified and educated population. Low start up costs, and an excellent employee base. Far far far far far and a minor detail to folks moving here or looking for business relocation is whether we are liberal or conservative. For every sad story about a Western Kansas town, there are a dozen success stories from JO and WY counties.

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

If you are referring to the successes of western Wyandotte county, those are all heavily subsidized by the state and UG. Throw enough corporate welfare (tax money and special breaks) at any business and they are more likely to succeed. Or at least pocket scads of money until they go under, leaving the taxpayers holding the bag. And a lot of immigrants already live in Western Ks.in the meat factory towns.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 10 months ago

Actually, wiss, I haven't taken shots at you the way I do at Tom. I do think there have been times I made you think. There have been times you've made me think. That's the purpose of debate. And honestly, I wouldn't say some of the things to you that I have if I didn't respect you more than some of the others on this board. I grew up in this state and I have very many fond memories of it that I will take with me. I'm moving to Tennessee, a state that is actually pretty conservative. But the conservatism there seems to be more "old school" and in keeping with the old style of Republicanism. I may be wrong in that estimate but they just don't seem to be shot through with neo-cons and Libertarians that feel just peachy about throwing children under their own school bus. I see very little "issue" legislation coming out of their statehouse, introduced for the sole purpose of "making the papers", and they don't seem to feel the need to "keep up with the Jones" in Oklahoma and Arizona. It's definitely going to be a different political landscape and, I think, an interesting one.

Scott Morgan 3 years, 10 months ago

hahhahahahaha oh my Cait. You will soon forget ole Kansas politics.

In my opinion, you are moving to the most fascinating political state in the union.

South/East = Dixie Memphis vs Nushvull North = diverse It all stops when the vols play football

rudyflash 3 years, 10 months ago

Amazing that a state that is losing residents wants to kick out hard-working people who are contributing to the economy. http://www.kansascity.com/2011/02/15/2658749/kansas-considers-tax-credit-for.html

Fred Mertz 3 years, 10 months ago

Some illegal immigrants may be hard working and others may not, but one thing is certain, they are all criminals. Why would you not want to kick out people who have violated our country's immigration laws, most likely have used false IDs, may have committed identity theft and probably send much of the money they earn back to their home country.

Why have immigration laws if they are not going to be enforced? Don't like the laws then work to change them, but in the meantime they must be enforced.

llama726 3 years, 10 months ago

I believe that a 14 year old student, as an example, brought here by their parents is not a criminal in the same sense that their parents are.

Fred Mertz 3 years, 10 months ago

Agreed that a 14 year old brought here by his parents is not responsible for his parent's actions and i wouldnt classify the child as a criminal. i was referring to adults that come here.

Now, with that said, we should not be accepting illegal immigrants into our school system. By doing so not only uses taxpayer dollars to educate someone here illegally, but it creates a real difficult situation later. What do we do with these children when they become adults and are still here illegally but this is really the only country they have ever known?

andreainkansas 3 years, 10 months ago

No. They are not. Entry without inspection is not a criminal offense. It is an administrative violation. That's why you can't go to jail for being undocumented...duh, because it's not a flipping crime.

The only exception is a federal criminal violation for unlawful entry following a prior final removal order. And that is a very different scenario that does not represent the majority of undocumented immigrants.

But I guess if you're a xenophobe, you can just make up things and keep repeating the lies until people believe them. Worked for KKKobach.

Patriot2 3 years, 10 months ago

The Associated Press: May 21, 2004 TOPEKA – Gov. Kathleen Sebelius signed a bill Thursday granting some illegal immigrants a tuition break at state universities and colleges. The new law, which takes effect on July 1, will extend in-state tuition, which is lower than tuition for nonresidents, to illegal immigrants who have attended a Kansas high school at least three years and graduated or earned a general educational development certificate in Kansas.

Sebelius had promised to sign the measure when it passed the Legislature earlier this month.

“Many students were on the edge of their seats, wondering, ‘Can I go to school this fall?” Elias Garcia, executive director of the Kansas Hispanic, and Latino American Affairs Commission. “The answer is a resounding yes.”

The Associated Press: January 22, 2003 Topeka — Proponents of allowing illegal immigrants to obtain Kansas driver's licenses pressed their case Tuesday with legislators and Gov. Kathleen Sebelius.

"We want to do the right thing. This law, as it is now, is making criminals out of hardworking, decent people," said Emira Palacios, a member of the Wichita-based group Sunflower Community Action/Hispanos Unidos.

Currently, immigrants seeking driver's licenses must present proof that they are in the United States legally. That law was passed in 2000 after two Colorado residents were caught in Salina bringing immigrants to Kansas to obtain licenses.

A bill revising the law failed in the House last year. Palacios said illegal immigrants drive without licenses anyway.

Sebelius will continue to support efforts to grant licenses to immigrants and urged the group to work with legislators in both parties, Corcoran-Basso said.

Kansas would gain financially by granting licenses to illegal immigrants, the advocates said. Spokeswoman Sulma Mercado estimated between 30,000 and 50,000 illegal residents live in Kansas, representing between $540,000 and $900,000 in potential driver's license fees.

Rep. Tom Klein, who supported last year's bill, said legislators are subjecting illegal immigrants to a double standard.

The advocates said they also wanted to ease the rules for establishing bank accounts and to charge in-state tuition for immigrants at state universities.

*Do you need more creditable proof?**

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

Well, you've proved that residents of Ks. should pay resident fees, and that people drive cars. You have not proved that illegal immigrants cost the state money in "tuition assistance"or have a higher percentage of drivers without insurance than other groups of drivers.

Patriot2 3 years, 10 months ago

Contact you nearest and dearest insurance agent. Tell them you are not a US citizen, you do not have a SSN, you have no intention of doing either because the law allows you not to do so. Ask how much your insurance will be?

Patriot2 3 years, 10 months ago

I wish we could bring God into this, but then, that would be unfair to the non-Christians and.............most likely the atheists would definitely be offended which would open a whole new can of worms, and lawsuits. Resulting in everyone forgetting what the heck we were trying to do in the first place. I think that may be called transparency?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

But God told me everything you say is wrong. Are you saying that he was lying when he told me that?

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

You made the assertion. The burden of proof is on you.

Patriot2 3 years, 10 months ago

YOU just furnished proof. The described individual would be un-insurable and if you were to be involved in an auto accident with them. You better be insured out the waazoo because you are going to need it.

llama726 3 years, 10 months ago

In a court, a plausible idea isn't good enough without the evidence to back it up. Please provide relevant data on costs of traffic accidents involving illegal immigrants.

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

A social security number is not required to purchase auto insurance.

Randall Uhrich 3 years, 10 months ago

Oh, this is just ****ing brilliant! Arizona's law has already been judged UNCONSTITUTIONAL twice, so Kansas is going to waste time and money copying them, at the same time exhibiting their rascism and exposing Kansas to even more ridicule. Your tax dollars at work!

notanota 3 years, 10 months ago

Don't forget that we'll have the side benefit of losing trade shows and conventions, too.

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

Per capita wages: El Salvador 4,890; Guatemala 4,060; Honduras 2,580; Nicaragua 2,400; Mexico 8,950 United States 37,500 http://www.success-and-culture.net/articles/percapitaincome.shtml Any questions?

Patriot2 3 years, 10 months ago

Question? Yes. Just exactly, how does this apply to illegal immigration in the United States?

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

They come here to earn more money so that their families can live better.

Fred Mertz 3 years, 10 months ago

It may explain it, but it doesn't justify breaking the law.

Patriot2 3 years, 10 months ago

And how do you feel about drug dealers who sell drugs to, and employ children to sell drugs for them, all of which is a crime and is illegal...... so that they can "earn" money to live better? (I know run on sentence.)

Rotten apples are still rotten apples no matter how much sugar you put on them.

llama726 3 years, 10 months ago

So working as a maid is a blue collar job. Working as a maid in a different country without going through proper immigration bureaucracy is equivalent to forcing kids to sell drugs.

Am I reading this correctly? You actually believe that someone working as a produce picker or a maid, or working in a meat plant, or any of the other jobs that undocumented workers occupy - you actually believe those jobs, by virtue of the simple act of doing them in America without the right paperwork, is akin to forcing a child to sell drugs?

Flap Doodle 3 years, 10 months ago

Illegal aliens should be pursued and caught and sent back to their home countries.

scott3460 3 years, 10 months ago

And all who employ them should be heavily fined and, if guilty of multiple violations, criminally prosecuted.

llama726 3 years, 10 months ago

I didn't know you favored massive government expansion.

Fred Mertz 3 years, 10 months ago

There are certain functions that the government should do and protecting our borders, our national security and keeping illegal immigrants out of this country is one of those functions. Cut some non-essential government functions and add to immigration control.

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

When will your boycott of corporations that employ illegal immigrants begin?

M_12 3 years, 10 months ago

What we need are walls... Really tall walls, all around the country. Really, really tall walls with lasers. Walls with lasers and a mine field. Then we can start the Purge. First the Illegals. Then the Differents. The Others. Them. Because We are Better. And if anyone thinks we aren't Better, They are not one of Us. They go over the wall too... Then We can Choose only the Ones We want to be one of Us. That is the American way.

Patriot2 3 years, 10 months ago

If that "was" the American way. You would not be here.

ivalueamerica 3 years, 10 months ago

How much will this cost the state in legal fees? How much will it cost to enforce? Who will pick the crops? Why isn´t there more of a focus on making hiring illegals more difficult?

stupid solution that will not solve the problem, but will cost a lot of money.

voevoda 3 years, 10 months ago

Why would Kansas want an Arizona-style law? Even if found to be constitutional (very doubtful), such a law only empowers police in Kansas to arrest and detain illegal immigrants. It doesn't empower Kansas to deport illegals; only the Federal government can do that. As things stand, Federal immigration courts are working overtime (yes, I have a source for this statement) to deport illegal aliens, and there is a huge backlog. In the meantime, the citizens of Kansas would be paying to jail the illegals--that is, paying for their housing, food, medical care, and legal aid. Not to mention defending against the discrimination lawsuits filed by US citizens and legal residents who are wrongly arrested merely because they have "olive skin" or don't "look American." All that would be a whole lot more expensive than any drain illegal residents have on the economy. So who benefits from such a law? Kris Kobach, first of all. And also other politicians of his ilk, who ride the political wave. And other lawyers of his ilk, who will rake in huge retainers to defend the law in court. Most of all, the private prison lobby benefits, because the state would need to contract with them to accommodate the detainees.
I can't see how Kansas taxpayers gain anything at all.

Patriot2 3 years, 10 months ago

Maybe we could have a slush fund to buy a plane ticket, or maybe military transport, to lets say a US territory? That would not be deportation, right? If I knew that entering another country illegally I would end up somewhere, say, Guam? Don't think I take that step!

llama726 3 years, 10 months ago

So now my taxpayer dollars have to go toward setting up an internment camp on a US Territory island, and pay for flying humans to said island as if they were livestock?

I'll pass. Let's target employers, if you want to get serious about the problem.

llama726 3 years, 10 months ago

Driving while intoxicated has been tied to numerous fatal accidents on the roads, prompting laws against driving while intoxicated.

Driving while Hispanic has not been tied to numerous fatal accidents on the road.

Any other questions?

llama726 3 years, 10 months ago

No, I don't know how to read. Please teach me.

(seriously, what a useless comment. Provide a link, or back up what you're saying in some way).

tomatogrower 3 years, 10 months ago

p2 hasn't given a link to any of his claims so far. He obviously doesn't know how to read or google. At least give some right wing nut job link. We won't listen to you, but that's where you get your weird ideas, not newspapers.

BlackVelvet 3 years, 10 months ago

perhaps if you'd read the Arizona law, you'd know the cops can't stop someone just because they "look" a certain way. They have to have another reason to stop/detain them first and only then can they ask for proof of citizenship. Course, if people had to read the law before pissing and moaning, that would take all the fun out of it, eh?

notanota 3 years, 10 months ago

Hmm, maybe the cops should also read that law and get back to the perfectly legal truck driver they pulled over at a weigh station and asked for a birth certificate. You carry yours with you at all times? You never know, you could be illegal.

govh8ter 3 years, 10 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

pace 3 years, 10 months ago

I don't like how much money this is going to cost. It is another shuffle the illegal immigrants dance, the state suing the feds in court and vice versa. This piece meal attack by color is attacking the wrong color. They should be attacking the green not the brown. We are going to pay for grandstanding while industries and corporations give away our jobs and take jobs from companies that are stand up. We need strong new national law. Law that follows the money, that fixes inadequate visa programs, that reward crooked corporations and industries. We can't fix the border, by more outlawing a population already outlawed. The republicans and the democrats aren't fixing employment, foreclosures of homes and businesses and border security. they are posing for pictures dancing with straw-men.

Kevin Randell 3 years, 10 months ago

First, I totally agree....go after the employers and fine their butts back to the stone age. If you cut off the source of income then there is no reason to come to America for work. Personally, I have no problem with........except that I feel they should pay taxes, and be subject to the same punishments of our laws.

The reason why I say this is I point out the fact of my friend. Her husband pulled over on the side of the road one night to help someone with a flat tire. He was ran over and killed by a non-documented (illegal) immigrant. She buried her husband, and he was detained, deported, and was back in Oklahoma in 30 days. THIS kind of stuff is what I have a problem with.

pace 3 years, 10 months ago

there is something about someone who shouldn't be on the road killing someone that is galvanizing. I lost my uncle to a drunk, and the drunk kept driving for 30 years. The catch and release is such an expensive and ineffective program. We need to look at all the parts of the problems and make smart laws. This seems to be doubling down on the law that isn't working anyway. The dialogue of who is crossing the border and why, must include illegal jobs, not just illegal workers. I am not for illegal immigration. It is an evil river ruining our country , hemorrhaging our border security, the law has to follow the money. Money is the fuel to this fire.

Scott Morgan 3 years, 10 months ago

Don't forget that rat Kobach wants voters to show picture I.D. too.

Stomp feet and throw a hissy fit. Squirt a couple for me. Just think of the homeless handicapped grandmas who can't afford I.D. (or parking meter fees)

grrrrrrrrrrrrrr Kobach.

The thought, having to show I.D. to vote. Just like voters have to do in Canada, Mexico and readers must do at the Lawrence Public Library when

requesting a library card.

Follow me! Protest the library.

Hell no! we won't show, Hell no! we won't show.

M_12 3 years, 10 months ago

The problem most people have with the issue Kobach has brought forward is not voter id--it's the prosecutorial power he wants to go along with it

evilpenguin 3 years, 10 months ago

Wow, who cares!?

Quit complaining about illegal immigrants and get back to your own lives.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

who's gonna build your wall by Tom Russell

I got 800 miles of bolted border Right outside my door There's minutemen in little pickup trucks Who declared their own dang war Now the government wants to build a barrier like ol' berlin, 8 feet tall

But if Uncle Sam sends the illegals home Who's gonna build the wall

Who's gonna build your wall, boys Who's gonna mow your lawn Who's gonna cook your Mexican food When your Mexican maid is gone

Who's gonna wax your floors tonight Down at the local mall Who's gonna wash your baby's face Who's gonna build your wall

I ain't got no politics So don't lay that rap on me Left wing right wing up wing down I see strip malls

It's the bad cat white developer Who's created this whole damn squall It's the pyramid scheme of dirty jobs And who's gonna build your wall

Who's gonna build your wall, boys Who's gonna maow your lawn Who's gonna cook your Mexican food When your Mexican maid is gone

Who's gonna wax your floors tonight Down at the local mall Who's gonna wash your baby's face Who's gonna build your wall

We've got fundamentalist muslims We've got fundamentalist jew We've got fundamentalist Christian That'll blow the whole thing up for you

But as I travel around this big ol' world There's one thing that I most fear It's a white man in a golf shirt With a cell phone in his ear

Who's gonna build your wall, boys Who's gonna mow your lawn Who's gonna cook your Mexican food When your Mexican maid is gone

Who's gonna wax your floors tonight Down at the local mall Who's gonna wash your baby's face Who's gonna build your wall

M_12 3 years, 10 months ago

The great dichotomy of illegal immigration in America is that although most American's don't like illegal immigrants, they also don't want to pay $12 for a pint of strawberries. That's what a pint of strawberries would cost if you paid someone minimum wage and benefits to pick them. America likes the outcome that illegal immigrant labor produces--just not the illegal immigrant.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 10 months ago

How many illegal immigrants would be too many? Advocates for illegal immigration don't say how many would be enough because then they would have to admit that at some point it would be too many. There are currently between 10-12 million illegal immigrants here. Is the number 15 million?, Twenty million? We had one amnesty already and with the numbers already here de facto amnesty may be what we're heading to. But then what? More illegal immigrants?
We need a wall. We need to prosecute employers and we need to deport all illegal immigrants.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 10 months ago

Wow. You actually said the words "prosecute employers". THAT will go over like a lead balloon.

pace 3 years, 10 months ago

Prosecute, fine, imprison those that make it their business to hire illegals. I know the industries will have to go to rehab.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 10 months ago

If you really believe that there is no willpower to prosecute employers, and you don't believe that illegal immigrants should persecuted, then you must believe in an open door policy. Whoever gets here and by whatever means, fine. Our country of 300 million will soon be a country of 500 million or more and will look a lot more like Bangladesh than what we have now.
How many people can our system support? How many jobs are there? How many spots in schools? How many roads will we have to build and how many ecosystems will we have to destroy to build them? Let's cut down every last tree in America so we can build houses for everyone. Let's burn every last drop of oil to transport everyone. I'll ask again. How many?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

If the corporate globalists have their way, nearly every country in the world will resemble Bangladesh, with a network of highly fortified gated communities for themselves.

The US won't be exempted from that.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 10 months ago

If those damn corporate globalists number in the millions and are here illegally I say send 'em back to where they came from. And if they are breaking the law, prosecute them.
As for that gated community, well I work very hard, many hours and for many years. I'm hoping to live in as nice a community as possible, even a gated one if I work hard enough and make good enough decisions. Maybe I'll see you at the club house.

pace 3 years, 10 months ago

We don't have the money to increase our catch and release harassment of illegal immigrants. We can take it seriously or we can pay for the parade. Jokes about how you will live in a gated community because you don't care if industries hire illegally, if the borders are secure, if America becomes a land of burning homes ran by gangsters are hilarious.

monkeyhawk 3 years, 10 months ago

"Feds Target Illegal Hires Expanded Government Audits Force About 1,000 Firms to Verify Workers' Status

The federal government is requiring as many as 1,000 companies to turn over their employment records for inspection, part of an expanding crackdown on businesses suspected of hiring illegal immigrants, according to people close to the Department of Homeland Security.

The audits, which the government is expected to make public in the next few days, represent the biggest such operation since 2009. At that time, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a DHS unit, conducted an auditing sweep of businesses working in public safety and national security. "

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703961104576148590023309196.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond

local_vocal 3 years, 10 months ago

People that think the cost to keep illegal immigrants is the issue, need to understand the propblems that arrive from the illegal immigrant population. I grew up in SW Kansas and up until the early 90's there was a growing increase in mexican immigrants (most legal, some not) now the expolsion of immigrants in the area is over 65%. Alot of people will say it is because of the beef/pork packing plants, they have actually been around for a lot longer than the influx of mexican immigrants. It is true that the plants employ a vast percentage of immigrants, but when your labor pool is biased towards your population percentage, then your going to have a majority of immigrants working there. As for the issue of "illegal" immigrants, that is where we need to step in. This is a grownig problem that Kansas is trying to maintian before it is out of control. I have been in an auto accident with a person who "doesn't have id, doesn't have insurance" they get a ticket but never show to court. My insurance has to foot the bill for an accident I didn't cause. The schools have to "aides" who interpret what the teacher is saying to enable the immigrants to understand. All the while, a student who understands english, has to wait. Check out the difference in enrollments at the 9th grade to 12th grade levels, vast majority of students do not finish, compared to other regions of the state. Money leaving the State, if you think it's being reinvested in the community, try getting Western Union to release numbers of money transfers. I am NOT saying that immigration is the problem, it is the "illegal" immigration that is. Many of you may not understand how fast your population might shift, if laws aren't enacted to keep the flow of immigration legal....put it on the employors, put it on the patrol officers....its only 10 years away and you will population shift of over 50% in the NE Kansas region, if we do not create the abilities to enforce "illegal" immigration.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

Penalize the employers for hiring them, and most of the problem goes away.

usnsnp 3 years, 10 months ago

I personnaly do know how bad the illegal problem is in Kansas, but if you want to stop it, there is one simple way. Punish the CEO, President, Manager of the company that hires them, say for example for every illegal that is found in the company the CEO goes to jail for 1 month and the company is fined $100,000. Mabey this would help solve the problem.

local_vocal 3 years, 10 months ago

I agree, and don't just stop there. Go to the landlords. Don't allow schools to count a student who does not have papers, to be counted towards the state money per pupil (then they will be looked at as a liability not an asset) I have many friends that have came over, gained citizenship and tried to propser and succeeded. The problem is identifing the ones that are not here legally. I personally think that if a patrol officer can ask me if have been drinking (at 9:00am) for reasons to rule out DUI. He should be able to ask if you are in the country legally. If your answer leads to reasonable doubt, then he can venture to try and find out more. Just like he would on a DUI.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

jhawkinsf--

You want to say that immigrants pay no taxes, but you want to make that argument by ignoring the fact that indeed they do pay taxes. And then you want to accuse me of "twisting things."

OK, so you want to limit the discussion to income taxes-- the vast majority of these folks probably don't even make minimum wage. If they were to file a 1040, they'd probably get an earned income tax credit.

Face it--While there may be legitimate reasons to oppose illegal immigration, the notion that they are "ripping off taxpayers" isn't one of them.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 10 months ago

I've said it before and I'll say it again, both employer and illegal immigrant should be prosecuted for the crimes they are committing. With millions of illegal immigrants and their employers turning our laws into a travesty, it's no wonder that obeying the rules of society has all become relative. The places in this country where this is happening the most are the places that are becoming the least desirable to be. I'm hoping Kansas goes it's own way by avoiding the mistakes of those states. Places like California are a shining light to third world refugees and is looking more and more like the places they are coming from.
And by the way, I'm also opposed to earned income tax credits and believe a flat tax with everyone, everyone paying the same percentage is the way to go. No deductions of any kind whatsoever.
The tax laws could be about a page long and your corporate globalists would pay exactly the same percentage as the minimum wage earner.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

"The tax laws could be about a page long and your corporate globalists would pay exactly the same percentage as the minimum wage earner."

And I bet you'll tell me you believe in it because it would be "fair."

But it's not. If the tax is 15%, someone earning $20,000 a year would have to pay $3000 in taxes. It might have escaped your notice, but $20,000 isn't a lot of money these days. Reduce that amount down to $17,000, an it's a struggle just to survive.

Now for someone who makes $1 million a year, the tax would be $150,000. That's a lot of money, to be sure, but they are left with $850,000. To 99.99% of the people, that person would still be fabulously wealthy.

So clearly, a flat tax is NOT fair. But you aren't concerned about "fair." You're just too convinced that evil poor people are out to get you, and you'll support whatever measure makes their lives as miserable as possible. After all, if anyone is poor, it's because they deserve it right? That's what God wants, isn't it?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

"To 99.99% of the people"

That should be "99.99% of the people of the world."

tbaker 3 years, 10 months ago

We're either a nation of laws or we aren't. Controlling our borders and regulating immigration are the most basic functions of federal government. From that standpoint alone, something must be done. That said, the US birth rate is too low to sustain our population. We need immigration. If I can track a FedEx package I mailed anywhere on Earth, or qualify for a half-million dollar home mortgage loan on-line in less than an hour, why then does it take an average of nine years for someone trying to do it right and follow our laws to become a naturalized citizen? If the pointless delay and inefficiency of our current laws were corrected, people would be far more inclined to follow them. As it is, I don't blame the vast majority of people entering our country illegally for doing what they are doing. I also believe they should be rounded up and deported. I feel sorry for them, but I care about my country more than I care about them.

andreainkansas 3 years, 10 months ago

And an average of 9 years is a low average. It takes a lot of people 20+ years, just to get LPR status and that's simply not feasible under pretty much any scenario. So they come in anyway EWI and pray that they're 245(i) eligible.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 10 months ago

Don't expect much of any of this to change. Much of US immigration policy, as well as it's fiscal policy, is designed to keep wages low and workers desperate. Whether it's the fed keeping inflation down (a euphemism for keeping (real) unemployment levels above 10%) or undocumented immigrants powerless, paranoid and vulnerable.

Alyosha 3 years, 10 months ago

So you disagree with Ronald Reagan's policies and thoughts on immigration?

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

Why don't we set up Ellis Island style immigration ports along the southern border and be done with it? When my people came over, they went through Ellis and they were in. If you passed the health inspection and interview, you were in. You still had to work towards citizenship, but unless you were one of the groups we were restricting that decade (Irish, Chinese, Italians) it was a simple process.

deec 3 years, 10 months ago

While I agree that many of our current troubles originated in the '80's, I think it's likely that at least some of the illegal immigrants would strongly prefer to be here legally. If it were a simple procedure to be here and do the scut work Americans won't, I think a lot of the workers would go through that simplified procedure. It's just an opinion, and I haven't researched it. I also think we need to differentiate between the two groupls: folks who just want to make at buck at jobs and folks who are intent on making a buck through activities we deem to be illegal. Just as legalizing booze did not get rid of organized crime, legalizing drugs would not get rid of border crime. Butr it seems reasonable to assume it would help. I don't think making our whole country a gated community is a desirable goal.

Alyosha 3 years, 10 months ago

Why are Kansas Republicans not following Ronald Reagan's policies and thoughts on immigration?

Reagan said, "I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally."

Kansas needs a solid Ronald Reagan-style, liberal solution: amnesty for those who have put down roots here, even though they might have entered the country illegally. And amnesty especially for children who had no choice in coming to the United States.

Gregory Newman 3 years, 10 months ago

Yaw don't get it !!!! The REPUGS have 2 bills in the house (1) Eliminate the minimum wage and (2) make it illegal to have unions. Therefore NO MORE BLACK OR WHITE WORKING PERIOD. They want illegal immigration. They have no problem with living with 20 in a household. They work without complaining even though they know they are being mistreated.

Yaw keep blaming Obama because you can't swallow the fact of Black leadership. White leadership created this. Some things just won't change for Blackmen. Shine shoes, entertain and defend our shores or law enforcement.

Eventually Whites will find out its their own that did em in when they can't get services from their Government but in the meantime it's socialism until it hits home. These International bankers want large profits yet Obama is saying you can make money but not at the expense of misusing natural born citizens.

You know the state of Ohio has 52 federal government contracts that has folks working. Whats up Kansans? Thats what I thought quiet on the set.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 10 months ago

If illegal immigrants are a problem why not bust the employers?

Instead of writing more laws that will have no impact?

Stop playing bogus showroom politics and go bust the employers!!! Come on tough talking Kansas politicians show some backbone and stop wasting time and money!

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