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Letters to the Editor

Immigration lie

April 18, 2011

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To the editor:

Secretary of State Kris Kobach lied to his Lawrence audience on Tuesday, when he said that deporting undocumented immigrants would create jobs for Kansans. It is dismaying that a person with degrees from three of the most elite intellectual institutions in the world, Harvard, Yale, and Oxford, would be so careless about the evidence for his argument.

During the Bush administration, the Council of Economic Advisers to the White House conducted a study of all available research and found that immigrants with or without legal status have a positive impact on the national economy. More workers generate economic activity, and more jobs. A very basic example is that having enough people to do the dangerous and low-paid work of meat-packing produces more opportunity for work in ranching, transportation and retail.

Also, adding more workers to an economy creates consumption, and just like anyone else, immigrants spend money on rent, utilities, groceries, recreation, and other expenses in local Kansas economies.

There is one economic benefit to the deportation efforts Kobach advocates: They are a cash cow for lawyers like himself. He has made a fortune by scaring communities into hiring him to write laws that are hostile to people of Latin American descent. This has generally not benefited his clients; it’s the protection racket of the 21st century.

Kansans need to realize that we are being sold a bill of goods that will never be delivered. Our diverse workforce and neighborhoods already do far more for Kansas than opportunist bureaucrats ever will.

Comments

Brent Garner 2 years, 11 months ago

OK, there are jobs that Americans won't do. But, I notice something interesting. Now this pertains to meat packing plants so it isn't an example of high end employment, but after every ICE raid of a packing plant there seem to be plenty of local Americans who line up to fill the now vacant jobs at the plant. So, maybe there is something to the position that illegal immigrants are taking jobs that Americans are willing to do.

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Flap Doodle 2 years, 12 months ago

"Granted, it is a federal matter, but that's what's always peeved me about military service to this great nation, the need for recruits to travel to the nation's capitol in order to enlist." Oh, really?

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tbaker 2 years, 12 months ago

I'm all for a "diverse workforce and neighborhoods" provided the people are in the country legally.

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Paul R Getto 2 years, 12 months ago

Brittanicus (anonymous) says… "No need to deport as the cost would be enormous; not that matters to Washington? The demand from tea party Senators and Congressman of the newly revised, E-Verify that will detect illegal aliens in the workplace will enforce the 1986 Reagan law. Nobody is to be exempt--longtime employees and new hires will be verified; Attrition by enforcement! Severe fines of companies who scorn the law, including business asset confiscation and imprisonment; not house arrest, but placement in the general prison population. Just because you own a business, doesn't mean you can hire illegal labor? Fact is they are stealing employment, from the ten million Americans out of work." ===
Brittanicus: Interesting points, sir or madame. Unlike your namesake, I hope you are not poisoned by your family for being uppity. Except for the last sentence in the quote, you may be on to something. Don't bet on the following: The head of Tyson Chickens doing hard time or having assets confiscated and don't bet on the unemployed in Kansas or elsewhere rushing to the fields to work so we can have cheap food. You are correct, however; if they enforced the 1986 Reagan verification, amnesty and guest worker law, things might get better. Robbing a liquor store for $300 gets you time in the slammer. Robbing the American people for hundreds of millions, if not billions or trillions, gets you a raise and a Christmas bonus (see Wall Street.) Shanti

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Armored_One 2 years, 12 months ago

Anyone game for annexing Mexico and just moving on? Heck, a sizable number of their populace is here as it is, why not make it legal to be here...

Yes, extreme, I know, but it would cure the entire problem. Probably generate some new ones, but at least there would be something new for people to gripe about.

I'm all for booting the illegals back to wherever they came from, regardless of where that might be.

"Oh, they have it so tough there"

Big freaking deal. Look at the numbers. If there was a popular revolt numbering anything close to the numbers involved with illegal immigration, do you honestly think that government would stay in power very long? Look at Egypt. There's a fine example of how it would easily work.

No, it's just easier to throw out laws and give them a free pass just because they don't want to be where they are. Usually, you change the situation, not run away from it like a bunch of freaking cowards, but hey, that's just me.

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Doppleganger 2 years, 12 months ago

If the fence hoppers are being treated so poorly, why do they still come?

It was the democrats that had the slaves in the south. Modern day slave status does explain why democrats dislike Kobach.

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tange 2 years, 12 months ago

Hmm... what if our efforts were devoted to naturalizing and assimilating these "bad" boys and girls now living among us. Granted, it is a federal matter, but that's what's always peeved me about military service to this great nation, the need for recruits to travel to the nation's capitol in order to enlist.

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2002 2 years, 12 months ago

It isn't a lie. I have experience with the issue as I have spent time living in California and the experience there holds true here also. Illegal immigration is a major drain on the economy. It also is highly abusive practice that renders the immigrant to near slave status. Shame on you for supporting it. I couldn't care less what political party Kobach is from and I support him on very little, but he is right on this topic.

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ivalueamerica 2 years, 12 months ago

Illegal immigrants are being deported at nearly twice the rate by the Obama administration than were under the Bush administration.

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Brittanicus 2 years, 12 months ago

The Tax code as it is now Creates Inequality

it’s time that US lawmakers implemented a flat tax for everybody. The tax code is so full of fraud, so full of loopholes that corporations like General Electric, Google pay nothing; Oil companies, the sugar industry gets massive subsidies; some politician, wealthy people and corporations slip past our IRS masters, by hiding money in tax havens overseas. If everybody paid according to what they brought, sold all consumers would pay their fair share. Just like US citizens and legal residents, the average US taxpayer are forced by laws, to pay for the support of foreign nationals illegally settled here. In 2012 we must vote for a Tea Party president and a Tea party Senate and Congressman.

We also have a growing crisis America, when illegal aliens are voting in our elections.

NO Copyright on my blogs, comments, articles, ever. Distribute freely.

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Brittanicus 2 years, 12 months ago

But a few brave political advocates are not being deceived, by the gaping border fence and are now enacting laws to stem the continuous influx of illegal migrants, immigrants, criminals and almost certainly murdering terrorists. Last week, Rep. Bilbray R-CA) added his name to the list of co-sponsors for the Nuclear Priority Act that would end chain migration and the CLEAR Act that would require collaboration between local law enforcement agents and federal agents in the enforcement of federal immigration laws. Ordinary working people are informing ICE of employers who are hiring illegal aliens and as the job market gets even rougher "Whistle blowers" will come out of the woodwork to report suspicious goings on? The TEA PARTY will not abide the liberal court system or the Leftist Czars hidden in the Department of InJustice. They are using unconstitutional means for clandestine amnesties, Immigration Reform, Sanctuary States or anything that has the obnoxious stench of Amnesty.

Read about illegal alien widespread Tax fraud at http://www.thesocialcontract.com/ the Pdf file "Illegal Aliens and American Medicine." http://tinyurl.com/o6r27 and the report "DRAINING AMERICA INTO POVERTY" at http://tinyurl.com/3mv3vzm These are reports that the Leftists, US Government Czars and radical open border zealots or lobbyists prefer you didn’t see.

The Tea Party has a propagating foothold in the Republican Party, as thousands every day of every party affiliation is joining. The Tea Party lawmakers will not tolerate raising the debt ceiling in the US budget, to support the 20 million plus illegal alien families using the birthright baby law to gain a foothold in America. Thousands will keep coming until the American people demand the real fences be constructed and every tool available is used to stop this invasion. Want truthful answers, to your question of costs and so much more, view NumbersUSA website.

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Brittanicus 2 years, 12 months ago

No need to deport as the cost would be enormous; not that matters to Washington? The demand from TEA PARTY Senators and Congressman of the newly revised, E-Verify that will detect illegal aliens in the workplace will enforce the 1986 Reagan law. Nobody is to be exempt--longtime employees and new hires will be verified; Attrition by enforcement! Severe fines of companies who scorn the law, including business asset confiscation and imprisonment; not house arrest, but placement in the general prison population. Just because you own a business, doesn't mean you can hire illegal labor? Fact is they are stealing employment, from the ten million Americans out of work. They have families to feed, mortgages to pay and so there should be zero tolerance for this heinous criminal issue. Auditing of companies should be stepped up and those caught red-handed, should be imprisoned as an example of not less than one to five years. No more slap on the wrist, but be held accountable. TO ME THAT'S A FELONY? IN FACT ENTERING AMERICA WITHOUT PERMISSION SHOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS A FELONY.

As thousands of illegal alien families are leaving Arizona, so the price to support them there is going down. Medicaid payments for economic non-citizens will be receding, including the costs for education, health-Care and prison cells, which is the States portion of the obligation. Hundreds of millions will be saved, even a billion or so. Utah--The sanctuary State of California, Nevada can least afford it, with the Golden State bordering on a 24 Billion dollar insolvency. Those lax States are financially seem unconnected to the honest population, will find the U-haul's and trucks crossing the State line hoping for a new refuge? They certainly won’t be heading for Georgia, but they could easily go northwards to Oregon or Washington, if State legislators approve driver’s licenses for illegal aliens. Assuredly, New Mexico that has just canceled enactment of a bill to deny driver’s licenses will get their share of economic refugees from Arizona.

Other States where citizens and permanent resident’s rights are sold to the highest bidder will also see crowds of foreign national families arriving there. The fact is today through rampant incompetence of both political parties covering decades. The invasion has allowed by sheer neglect, attributing to the damaging US treasury deficit, that is destroying America. Households may have two parents that have been allowed to stay, because a newborn baby has received instant citizenship under the misinterpreted 14th Amendment. Over time other illegal family members have stolen across the body living in the same likely Section 8 housing. Few lawmakers have dared declare they are anti-illegal immigrant as they cringe against the Leftist "Political Correctness" garbage of the racial bigotry. But that’s the only agenda the Left has got, because they cannot fight the massive costs presented to them.

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barlowtl 2 years, 12 months ago

I find it very interesting that the immigration law recently passed in Arizona attacks the businesses who hire illegals as well as the immigrants. However... there is an exemption for housekeepers, nannys, & lawn care occupations. Evidently the legislators don't want to pay full salary for their household help.

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George Lippencott 2 years, 12 months ago

Mr. K is a liar? I guess that allegation is not surprising given his popularity with some people here about. Let us examine that notion.

Do undocumented workers deprive Kansans of jobs? . In an economy where unemployment is high (few jobs) those willing to work for less have a leg up on getting hired. Statistics suggests that undocumented workers work for less. Maybe there is some truth to the notion?

On the other hand data suggests that undocumented workers tend to take jobs that many native born will not accept at the rate paid. If that be true then the undocumented workers fulfill an important function (as noted in the referenced study) and do not impact the employment of Kansans.

Bottom line is that I don’t know where truth lies. If the undocumented workers were not available would the rate paid for low end jobs increase until native born Kansans would accept them?

In the absence of a knowable truth I would consider that Mr. K’s allegation is an opinion and not a lie.

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xfitter 2 years, 12 months ago

I would learn the language and societal norms of the place i was moving to either before and during the move. You think that it hits them one day, to run across the border for a better life? No it's premeditated, they know its illegal and don't care. Seems like a lot of energy thinking about how to better yourself elsewhere instead of bettering oneself where they already are first. The thing is that there are plenty of immigrants from other countries that want/need to come over to work to feed their families, and this takes jobs away from them also. With that legal aliens from other countries may have a better economic outcome for the country than just "neutral". Those people also learn ENGLISH and get on a path to becoming a citizen aka productive members of society. We have catered to this populous for so long now that these "illegal citizens" expect their voice to be heard politically. As someone has already said if the elected representatives make up and pass bills that changes policies towards the illegal aliens than it changes everything but as of now they are here illegally and choosing to ignore that fact isn't acceptable.

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Jimo 2 years, 12 months ago

"He has made a fortune by scaring communities into hiring him to write laws that are hostile to people of Latin American descent."

Made a fortune by losing in court!

I still remember his lawsuit that claimed the State of Kansas was discriminating against citizens of other States by offering reduced tuition to non-U.S. citizen Kansas residents. Honestly, the brief would have earned a law student a failing grade it was so illogical and unfounded by any citation to law. Who knew that the State had a legal duty to other States' residents that required priority over people living in Kansas? (All while his supporters spend their golden years schlupping as Wal-Mart greeters back in Kansas.).

Quite a little one-man industry Kobach has going. Consultant to cities and towns. Channeling legal fees defending clearly unconstitutional statutes through the guaranteed legal challenges. You'd think that some of these places would hesitate though to pay out five and six figures to a fellow with a losing record.

If someone was obsessed over gays, we'd suspect he was repressing a same-sex attraction. I'm not certain what insight we can gain over someone obsessed with Mexicans. I've always just assumed Kobach's interest was purely about using the topic as a entryway to cash. Heck, he'll probably end up retired in a multi-million villa in Baja California! Wouldn't that be ironic? (All while his supporters end up in their golden years slepping as Wal-Mart greeters back in Kansas.) He may be an idiot but he ain't no fool! Next up - a Fox News gig.

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verity 2 years, 12 months ago

Something that never seems to come up in these unending discussions about illegal immigrants: Most don't come here because they are criminals and want to flaunt the laws of the U.S.A. They come here because they are dirt poor and unable to support themselves/families where they are. They come here so they can feed and house themselves and their families. From what I have seen, their lives here are usually not all that great either, but obviously better than where they came from. (The dangerous meatpacking plants in western Kansas is one thing that comes to mind.)

My question: If this was reversed, what would you do? What would you do to make sure your children didn't starve?

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BigAl 2 years, 12 months ago

Serious question. When these undocumented workers have withholding taxes (Fed, State, SS, Medicare, etc) What happens to that money? They obviously can't claim it on a tax return. They obviously can't file for SS benefits or medicare benefits. Seems to me that this might be some "free" money to the state and feds. I really don't know.

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Tony Kisner 2 years, 12 months ago

LTE right! For example I need a new roof. If I need to pay documented workers documented wages it will cost me a fortune. Illegal workers are better than slave labor because you don't need to take care of them. Like the beef packing example I would need to start eating strips rather than fillets. Bad deal for me.

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jhawkinsf 2 years, 12 months ago

If the United States, through our elected representatives wants to pass a guest worker bill, allowing immigrants to come into our country on a temporary basis to do needed work, I say fine. If the United States, through our elected representatives wants to pass an amnesty, allowing those who have entered our country illegally to stay here with a path to citizenship. I say fine. But until that happens, I think we should all obey all the laws. Change laws if you don't like them, but obey them until that change happens.

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Bob_Keeshan 2 years, 12 months ago

Immigrants aren't coming to this country illegally for jobs.

They are coming to have babies and get cheap college tuition.

Everyone knows that. Take those things away and the immigrants will stop coming. That's why it will mean more jobs, because the jobs will still be there but the immigrants won't want them if they can't have babies and get cheap college tuition.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 12 months ago

Undocumented immigration (in most cases, it's actually not "illegal" in the same sense that other infractions are) does create problems.

But the fact is that from a strictly financial standpoint, it's pretty neutral. These immigrants really don't cause a net increase in taxation (especially if you exclude the tremendous costs of border enforcement, and the extreme escalation of costs the Kobach, et al, would impose.) They pretty much pay their own way.

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mloburgio 2 years, 12 months ago

The man behind many of the deeply flawed anti-illegal immigrant laws passed recently is Kris Kobach, the "national expert on constitutional law" who works for the Immigration Reform Law Institute (IRLI). IRLI is the legal arm of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), recently listed as a nativist hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. At IRLI, Kobach has been a prime mover behind ordinances in Farmer's Branch, Texas, and Hazelton, Pa., among other places, that seek to punish those who aid and abet "illegal aliens." The laws have not done well. The Hazelton ordinance, crafted by Kobach and fellow IRLI attorney Michael Hethmon, was struck down last year by a federal judge who also charged the city for all legal fees. "Everything he does has been a failure," Mira Mdivani, a Kansas immigration lawyer, told The Pitch in January 2007 Kobach, who in 2007 became chairman of the Kansas Republican Party, is far-right Christian fundamentalist. During his 2004 campaign, he accused his opponent of associating with groups supporting "homosexual pedophilia." He was referring to the Human Rights Campaign, a mainstream gay rights organization that has never come remotely close to endorsing pedophilia. http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2008/spring/the-nativists?page=0,11

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Blessed4x 2 years, 12 months ago

Can we keep all the hard working immigrants and deport the 3rd generation welfare recipients and the drug dealing immigrants?

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DeaconBlue 2 years, 12 months ago

The invasion of Catholics from Mexico is at a fever pitch.

When will the secular liberals do something to stop this religious onslaught.

What would Darwin do?

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Flap Doodle 2 years, 12 months ago

Many illegal aliens work for cash in the lawn care industry. All those companies should have their records closely examined. Not doing that would be dumb and irresponsible !!!!!!

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Richard Heckler 2 years, 12 months ago

Or bust the employers. They are the ones hiring the so called "illegal immigrants". Don't need a lawyer to make that determination.

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independant1 2 years, 12 months ago

Whether one agrees with Kobach or writer/Chappell - mass illegal immigration is problematic.

Do something to slow or stop the chaos of illegal immigration? Do something to continue or codify status quo of unbridled illegal immigration? Or Do nothing?

Solution - bring our standard of living down to a level that removes the incentive for economic flight to USA.

There, fixed that one.

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pace 2 years, 12 months ago

Why don't we blame the economic woes on a poor minority which we use. Don't blame it on wall street and bankers. Don't blame it on industries and corporations who hire illegally. Maybe we could at least have the undocumented workers wear special clothing.

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Benjamin Roberts 2 years, 12 months ago

LTE: "During the Bush administration, the Council of Economic Advisers to the White House conducted a study of all available research and found that immigrants with or without legal status have a positive impact on the national economy."

Your statement is somewhat disingenuous. The report did not state that illegal aliens had a positive impact on the national economy. The report simply could not separate the two, "...Because it is difficult to determine the legal status of migrants in standard data sets, the economics literature generally assesses all foreign-born workers together." (http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/cea/cea_immigration_062007.html)

Legal immigrants should be appalled at the lumping together of their contributions to this country with those of common criminals. There is no rationale that an illegal alien living in the shadows would provide the same positive impact as a legal immigrant that can operate and participate within the confines of the law.

LTE: "There is one economic benefit to the deportation efforts Kobach advocates: They are a cash cow for lawyers like himself. He has made a fortune by scaring communities into hiring him to write laws that are hostile to people of Latin American descent."

The LTE obviously disagrees with Kobach's legal opinion on illegal aliens. However, is it not presumptuous to assume that laws supporting legal immigration and enforcing actions against illegal aliens must be "hostile to people of Latin American decent?" Is there no other ethnicity that enters the country illegally? There is no specific citation in the enforcement laws that Kobach helped author that single out a particular group of people - other than illegal aliens. If the laws do indeed, as the LTE states, disproportionately affect a specific ethnicity or race, that can only be explained by that group's disproportionate willingness to violate U.S. immigration laws.

Frankly, I do not have the heart to disenfranchise and condemn the millions of Americans of Hispanic or Latino decent, or the millions of legal Hispanic or Latino immigrants, by grouping them with the approximately 13 million criminals that have illegally crossed our borders. Fortunately, someone was bigoted enough to do it - way to go LTE writer!

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