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Opinion

Opinion

Burning more than the Quran

September 8, 2010

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Saturday is International Burn a Quran Day.

Perhaps you hadn’t heard. The day is the brainchild of one Terry Jones, pastor of the tiny Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla. You will not be surprised to hear that his plan to build a bonfire of Qurans has stirred passions around the world. The New York Times reports Jones has been condemned by Muslim leaders in Egypt, Indonesia and elsewhere and that some U.S. preachers plan to read the Quran in Sunday services as an act of religious solidarity. Supporters have encouraged Jones to barbecue the Quran with pork, a meat Islam forbids. A young Muslim student at the University of Florida told The Miami Herald of the “uneasiness” she now feels.

And if you’re wondering how Jones picked the day for this repugnant act, it’s simple. Saturday is the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. In other words, he proposes to commemorate an act of hate with an act of hate.

He will do this, he says, even though he’s been denied a permit.

He will do it, he says, in the face of protest from Christians and Muslims alike.

He will do it, he says, even though half his church has deserted him.

He will do it, he says, even though it cannot help but inflame radical Muslims.

He will do it, he says, even though it might place U.S. soldiers overseas at risk.

And the surprising thing is that none of this is surprising. To the contrary, you find yourself wondering how something like this did not happen long ago. After all, what Jones plans to do feels sadly predictable, pathetically in line with the kind of sentiments that have been oozing out of our computers, televisions and radios for years now. Indeed, it is difficult to escape a sickening sense that he only reflects the Zeitgeist of a nation that seems to have grown not simply more intolerant, but more “accepting” of its intolerance, more “comfortable” with its intolerance, more willing to rationalize its intolerance, than at any time in almost 50 years.

It’s hardly news anymore when a conservative pundit or public figure — and yes, that’s almost always the profile — says something belittling, bellicose, ignorant or hateful about gay people, Hispanics, blacks or undocumented immigrants.

And Muslims? Lord, it’s been open season on them for years, the increasingly strident denunciations of Islam culminating in this summer of discontent, of angry protest of proposed mosques, not just in lower Manhattan, but also in such far-flung burgs as Murfreesboro, Tenn., Temecula, Calif., and Sheboygan, Wis.

Jones’ plan, then, feels somehow ... inevitable. “Of course” he’s going to fuel a bonfire with Islam’s holy book. Haven’t human beings often resorted to fire to purge themselves of that they fear and misunderstand? The Nazis did it in the 1930s, throwing books into flames as a way of killing the dangerous ideas on their pages. Southern whites did it in the 1950s, throwing rock ’n’ roll records into fire as a way of denying the cultural miscegenation the music proved.

There is in the act of burning something primitive and tribalistic, something that appeals to the lizard brain that has no ability or desire to reason, no comprehension of ideals and abstract concepts, that knows only that it lives in fear of a world it cannot understand and will do anything to send the fear away. The process of becoming a truly human being is the process of conquering that lizard brain. Unfortunately, some people never do.

On Saturday, some of those people will gather round a bonfire to watch pages blacken and curl and turn to smoke. You listen to the hatred spewing from respectable leaders in prominent places, you think of how normal that has become, and one thing suddenly seems starkly clear:

We’re burning a whole lot more than books.

Comments

grammaddy 4 years, 3 months ago

I think it is so sad that a Pastor can be so filled with arrogance and hate that he is determined to do this.Not very Christian-like if you ask me.This is where fear-mongering will take us.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 3 months ago

I guess this means you'll be having your own little Quran burning?

Jimo 4 years, 3 months ago

Actually, the Library had been severely destroyed by mobs of CHRISTIANS many years earlier -- ironically !! -- who were determined to burn the section on necromancy and witchcraft. It was only a shadow of its former self long before Muslims arrived.

Propaganda by bigots wasn't invented just yesterday, you know?

overthemoon 4 years, 3 months ago

Do you have any concrete knowledge of Islamic law? Not, but you have a new word to throw around to sound like you can warrant the baseless fear it generates.

stopit 4 years, 3 months ago

I am a Christian. Please tell me how you came up with that statement.

anonyname 4 years, 3 months ago

I am not. Please tell me why Christians are inherently superior.

mr_right_wing 4 years, 3 months ago

I can answer that one for you....(by playing the part of obamarocks):

I wanted some attention so I took a cheap shot.

I hardly ever get out of my parents basement; so I just wanted the outside world to acknowledge my pathetic existence.......

Gotta go...pizza guy is here (my one true friend!!)

Stuart Evans 4 years, 3 months ago

the spirit of the times can never be outdated. Once that is gone a new zeitgeist takes its place.

Stuart Evans 4 years, 3 months ago

of course, burning qurans will change the minds of people hopelessly addicted to their sky god. I'm sure if we held a bible burning right here in Lawrence, lots of christians would immediately change their ridiculous ideas too....

PlayNiceWithOthers 4 years, 3 months ago

Lots of Christians actually think this guy is nuts and has forgotten that we are to love one another - not lash out in hate. Please don't group all Christians together with these extremists. As a Christian, I don't believe in lumping everyone together in any group. We are way too diverse as humans to fit into nice little categories like that.

barlowtl 4 years, 3 months ago

Those of us that find this man an embarrassment & feel helpless as he does his thing must surely understand just a little how the moderate muslims feel being lumped in with the terrorists.

Boosh 4 years, 3 months ago

He's in the phone book now, he's somebody now...

Ron Holzwarth 4 years, 3 months ago

Yup, he's getting to be right up there with Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 3 months ago

Perhaps they should build a Christian church just a few blocks from the Kaaba to teach the Saudis a lesson in tolerance.

barlowtl 4 years, 3 months ago

So now we use their behavior as our model? That would make it OK to persecute Muslims then?

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

I'm glad that you see it that way.

It is unfortunately a sort-of logical extension of the inability to separate radical Islamic terrorists from the whole of the Muslim religion.

christy kennedy 4 years, 3 months ago

Even Sarah Palin (with one stupid comment and written by someone else) made a statement asking this idiot pastor to "stand down." Beck denounced him too. He's straying very close to Phelpsville so it's no wonder he only has a few followers. I just hope the rest of the world sees that.

anonyname 4 years, 3 months ago

For the record, I actually agree with Tom Shewmon on something!

overthemoon 4 years, 3 months ago

It is a good day. For the wrong reasons. I wish we could all agree on things that take us forward instead of just being able to acknowledge obvious idiocy.

overthemoon 4 years, 3 months ago

I think that what might stop him...maybe...is his refusal to head the warning that his actions may directly cause harm to our troops and are in contradiction to the constitutional responsibility of the Government to protect our citizens here and abroad. I don't know if this is legal enough, but when the Government asks you (nicely) not to do something because it will harm ongoing diplomatic and military missions, and you do it anyway, there is some bit of sedition goin' on.

scott3460 4 years, 3 months ago

"what can stop him? "

I will offer that strong renunciation from republican leaders would be helpful. I note Haley Barbour has commented negatively on this idiot's tantrum, but have not seen many other republican "leaders" offering any comment. This fool clearly does not care what the left or middle of the road folks say about him, he covets their shock and attention. But a strong response by republicans might convince him that his actions are truely out of bounds. Will the republicans stand up and do so? Their actions will speak to their intent.

JayCat_67 4 years, 3 months ago

If a jackass burns a book and there are no cameras there to broadcast or record the event... Of course, if nothing else, the jerk would probably record it himself and post it to you-tube. Any hackers looking to do a good deed out there?

devobrun 4 years, 3 months ago

"It’s hardly news anymore when a conservative pundit or public figure — and yes, that’s almost always the profile — says something belittling, bellicose, ignorant or hateful about gay people, Hispanics, blacks or undocumented immigrants."

And it's hardly news anymore, Mr. Pitts, when a liberal pundit or public figure--and yes, that's almost always the profile---says something bellicose, ignorant or hateful about northern Georgia, redneck, flyover-country rubes, or Christians.

The reverend in north Florida has gotten just what he wants. Publicity. This story is all over the place. It raises the questions not addressed by the left regarding how people view Islam. We are now discussing the issue of Muslim violence and how the west can justify Sharia law, stoning of women, Kings and Princes and rulers who brutalize their subjects. You know, Islam.

Next column, Mr. Pitts, inform the masses how a liberal can hold Sharia Law and moral relativism in the same head. I admit that I haven't figured out how liberals aren't even more incensed by Islam than by fundamental Christianity. Talk about hating gays? Islam. Hating women's rights, Islam. How do you hold the fundamental tenets of Islam in your head and not join the burning of the Quran and what it stands for?

Could it be that you are just afraid to take Islam to task? You back Islam against the redneck because he doesn't threaten you, but a bomb might go off in your car if you write a column negative to Muslims?

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

There are a variety of interpretations of the Koran and Sharia law, just as there are of the Bible or the Torah.

Orthodox Judaism has practices which may offend feminists.

If you believe in freedom of religion, then that includes the freedom to practice in ways which may offend some people.

devobrun 4 years, 3 months ago

The freedom to practice religion is in the same constitutional amendment that promises freedom of speech. Just as Islam is free to practice its beliefs, people who object are free to complain about those beliefs.

Except when it is Islam that is being protested.

Because Islam promises to turn violent.

And America is afraid of Islam.

Pitts, Clinton, and many many other public figures are calling the protest in Florida names like "ridiculous", "ignorant", etc.

Because they are afraid.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 3 months ago

Who is saying the guy doesn't have the freedom to burn all these Qurans?

"And America is afraid of Islam."

And Islam is afraid of America. Given that America has killed many times the number of muslims as vice-versa while invading and occupying their countries, it's a well-founded fear.

devobrun 4 years, 3 months ago

You bet, porch, America can get violent. Well, maybe we used to get violent.........

Democratically elected government in Iran.

Sublime.

Despot who gassed his own people. All over the place.


So......how 'bout we support nobody? All leaders in all Muslim countries are despots who will gas their own people. There, fixed that. Pick the fight with Islam, not on a country basis.


Porch, if you are not afraid of Islam, then you are a fool. You set yourself up to fail by being pushed into a corner by a 2-bit preacher into fearing the consequences.


WWI was a result of the recent formation of countries. That's right, Europe in the early 19th century was still King and Queen and Ruler oriented. The emergence of countries also generated other contrivances, like treaties. Many of of those treaties were secret and alliances were tested when a "crazy" shot the emperor. The cards tumbled and war resulted.

Islam and the West are at war. It should be acknowledged. The reverend might actually cause the next world war. WWIII. The war against fundamentalist religion. You should be scared....especially if you are a democrat because it might happen on your watch. And you will be booted for the warmongers. You will loose the battle because you didn't engage it.

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

Islam and the West are at war - that is an incorrect and dangerous point of view.

Some radical fringe believers feel that they are at war with the West.

That doesn't represent the vast majority of Muslims at all.

And, the war that you are referring to might be a war between two fundamentalist religions - Jones' Christianity and radical Islam.

It's certainly not a fight against fundamentalist religion.

And the idea scares the heck out of me regardless of who happens to be in power.

anonyname 4 years, 3 months ago

"Because Islam promises to turn violent." False. There are followers of Islam who are extremely violent, and will kill in the name of their religion. There are followers of Christianity who are/have been violent in the name of their religion as well.

  • The Crusades: hundreds of years of wars because 'my religion is better than your religion.'

  • The Thirty Years War: Most of Europe was at war during the 1600s because 'my flavor of Christianity is better than your flavor of Christianity.' It's estimated the population of Germany dropped from 25 to 50 percent.

  • Europeans colonizing Africa and the Americas: Missionaries sought to indoctrinate the heathens into the "right" religion. Millions upon millions die from the diseases the Europeans brought with them in their quest to spread Christianity.

  • "The Troubles" in Ireland/Northern Ireland: over 3,500 dead because 'my flavor of Christianity is better than your flavor of Christianity.'

  • Since 1993, eight people have been killed in attacks on abortion providers, the most recent of course being the murder of Dr. George Tiller in Wichita - in a (Christian) church, no less.

Some Muslims are violent, yes. If this means we should instantly be afraid of and persecute every single Muslim, we then must be afraid of and persecute every single person who claims to be Christian, as Christians have proven to be extremely violent in the name of their religion. If you are Christian, shall I assume you are violent? Think about your answer to that, and think about your assumptions of Muslims.

devobrun 4 years, 3 months ago

Jeez, anonyname, you just made my point for me. Islam is just another religion bent upon asserting itself in any way possible. Violence included.

Christians do it, Muslims do it, Catholics, Protestants, Sunni, Shi'ite, and many more sects, religions and on and on and on.

Islam promises to turn violent. Bank on it. My fellow electrical engineers sure are.

We build the stuff that decodes messages, guides drones, scans bodies as they travel........

Because Christians and Jews and Muslims and .........hate each other. And democratic politicians know this better than most. And keeping the wool over the eyes of the general public is the only thing keeping the next conflagration from happening. And if it happens on Obama's watch.....they look bad.

Get it?

The Rev. Jones is a little guy. Just another crazy fundamentalist Christian. Boy can he do some damage!

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

No, because the burning is based on the wrong-headed idea that the entire Muslim religion is synonymous with a small percentage of radical believers.

And that burning the Koran is a good way to "stand up" against the "religion of the devil" that is Islam.

I heard the preacher on the radio this morning saying he wanted to stand up for truth - I'd love for him to be doing that. But of course he's not.

devobrun 4 years, 3 months ago

The burning is based upon the idea that Islam represents evil to the Reverend Jones. Whether the Quron is evil or not is a matter of opinion.
I believe that an intelligent argument can be made that the Quron represents anti-Christian views. Also, the behavior of some Muslims support the notion that Islam is against that which Reverend Jones finds dear.

Burning the book is an expression of his fear and loathing of the book.

If you disagree, fine. Nobody hurt. Except that Islam will protest in such fury and with such violence that it will support the side of Rev. Jones.
Democrats are fearful of the consequences of Muslims retaliating violently. It will require of the government some kind of action. That action is likely to be ineffective and/or not favorable to democratic politicians.

And elections are 2 months off.

This is a most fearful thing. Islam becoming violent and inviting support towards Rev. Jones.

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

Where's the intelligent argument part?

The Muslim religion is not the same thing as the actions of a small percentage of radical terrorists.

If it's true that Islam and Christianity are fundamentally enemies, then we're in big trouble. I believe that's mistaken.

There are multiple interpretations of both the Bible and the Koran, and many different kinds of believers in both religions. I would wager that moderates in all major religions can get along just fine.

If this action results in more violence from radical extremists, that will not support his view, in my opinion. But maybe that's what he's hoping to gain - kind of evil, to attempt to goad people into more violence against Americans.

And, my concern is that this action will alienate moderate Muslims, with whom we otherwise could be making a strong alliance. And, it feeds right into the hands of the extremists, who will use it to show that we hate Islam.

This kind of projection of the shadow is a dangerous thing, and generally leads to violence and wars.

Jung warned about it when the Nazis came to power - I guess we haven't learned much yet.

devobrun 4 years, 3 months ago

"If it's true that Islam and Christianity are fundamentally enemies, then we're in big trouble. I believe that's mistaken."

Well, Jafs, I believe that Islam is naturally opposed to Christianity. Fundamental interpretations of both the Quran and the Bible obviate the need to deal with these differences on a high level.

They are not being dealt with at the level of Universities, think tanks, Government, or any way that includes Imams or fundamentalist Christians.

Intellectualism has abandoned religion.

We are doomed to violence.

Get ready for it.

Don't be shocked when it happens. Why do you think that Homeland Security is huge and getting bigger all the time.

It is because the dam will burst. And Rev. Jones is a real threat to the administration because the dems don't want it to happen on their watch. Oh, it isn't their fault. It has to happen. Islam will strike out, some time, some where.

Rev. Jones knows this and the elections are two months away.........

skinny 4 years, 3 months ago

As the general said, this may directly result in soldiers' deaths.

This is how stupid this is. Why would anyone kill somebody over a religious belief? It is all make believe anyway! Wonder if they believe in Santa Claus too? Oh ya, that is a Christian belief, not Islam, sorry!

gatekeeper 4 years, 3 months ago

Why would anyone kill somebody over a religious belief? Have you ever studied history man? Killing in the name of god has been going on for thousands of years, doesn't matter which god it is or what the relgion is.

Amy Heeter 4 years, 3 months ago

In 1522 John Calvin burned bibles. He was a protestent reformer who called translated versions counterfeit( because the text was not in Latin) Mr. Calvn felt that those who translated may have been altering the beliefs of the people. Despite this christianty has continued to flourish for centuries. Terry Jones isn't proving anything except how very ignorant he really is.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 3 months ago

"The point is that neither Christianity nor Islam is "right". Are you smart enough to have figured that out?"

I believe that was one of TomPaine's central points, no?

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

Yes, because he equates the actions of a small percentage of radical believers with the entire religion.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 3 months ago

They should just behead some unbelievers & call it good.

somedude20 4 years, 3 months ago

They did behead a few however the only witness, Jan Brewer, could not remember their names or where it happened so it is game on

Cait McKnelly 4 years, 3 months ago

"Where they burn books, at the end they also burn people." German poet, Heinrich Heine, 1823

Scott Kaiser 4 years, 3 months ago

The pastor has no permit, ergo, he will be arrested. Further media coverage which he obviously seeks. My query involves the ACLU. Where are they on all of this? Which side will they jump to? Or will they be completely silent? I'll be watching to see, though I have my own ideas of the answers to these questions....

anonyname 4 years, 3 months ago

I am a lifelong Progressive, and nearly always support the ACLU. Outside of the permit issue, this man has every right to free speech, and that includes (at least on private property) burning whatever books he chooses. It absolutely disgusts me, I believe it is hugely counterproductive and can only make matters worse in our foreign relations, and I believe it will directly endanger US troops abroad...yet he has the right to do it. I fervently hope someone can get through his thick skull to his microscopic brain and get him to see the consequences of his plan before going through with it...yet he has the right to do it.

It's not as if Muslims worldwide would hold America in high regard if only this pastor doesn't follow through. The way we've treated the billion-plus peaceful Muslims both in their countries and in ours has been awful.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 3 months ago

You're right-- that was a rather involved "joke" that poked fun at the belief in miraculous visages of Christ, Mary, etc. And it was pretty funny.

This guy isn't trying to be funny at all. He has only one intent, and that's to offend. (much like you.)

devobrun 4 years, 3 months ago

Daddy points out that the very reason for the burning is to offend, and therefore will be arrested. He challenges the freedom of speech clause and stands back.

The ACLU (as represented by anonyname) says to hold your nose and back his speech. He just hopes that some scary guy in a black suit will dissuade the reverend that this burning will kill people and he shouldn't do it.

Smells like blackmail to me. Or extortion. When is blackmail/extortion not illegal? When it is conducted by the government.....especially when it is a democratic government. But anonyname is a Progressive. That means that he is open minded............except about government extortion......when it suits him.......fool the other guy, anon......you just want power. Just like Islam....and Christianity.

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

He said this morning that they will go through with it, although they are continuing to "pray on it".

mbulicz 4 years, 3 months ago

How about this for a counter-protest?

Let's collect books from all around the community of all faiths and donate them to respective houses of worship.

I'm not huge on religion myself, but I can definitely respect wanting to make the world a better place through kindness. Petty bickering and book burning just makes us the stereotypical western Christian imperialist country in the extremists' eyes.

Gene Wallace 4 years, 3 months ago

Just remember to donate the books in the name of Terry Jones, pastor of the tiny Dove World Outreach Center. Then send Jones and the church copies of donation letters accompanying each book donated.

Richard Payton 4 years, 3 months ago

I wonder if this Terry Jones is any relation to Jim Jones from the Jonestown cult suicides?

Kyle Reed 4 years, 3 months ago

I actually feel dumber for having read your comment.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 3 months ago

That's really horrible as it means you must be approaching inanimate object status.

Kyle Reed 4 years, 3 months ago

Wait, am I supposed to take that as an insult coming from someone self titled as a bozo? Thanks for playing but try again.

mr_right_wing 4 years, 3 months ago

Sounds like maybe this guy has some things in common with Fred Phelps.

Maybe they could get together to talk about gay muslims?

hail2oldku 4 years, 3 months ago

Sounds like Fred's "church" is planning on joining in on the book burning.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 3 months ago

Respect for the faiths of others is haraam, isn't it?

beatrice 4 years, 3 months ago

Two thoughts -- first is that this guy has received his moment of fame and the media, including Pitts, is giving him far more attention than the crackpot deserves. Time to move on. He doesn't represent American values, and he doesn't represent Christians, as they have stated. The media will be all over this story, when they should just ignore it. If someone burns a book in the forest with no one else around, will anybody else care?

Second thought is, Fred Phelps must be upset that he didn't come up with this hateful idea first.

CHKNLTL 4 years, 3 months ago

This guy probably thought of Fred when he came up with this idea.....do something stupid for attention.

Fred would blame the Jihadists/Terrorists/Extremists for causing a war that caused thousands of "fags" to join the military, and therefore he might want to burn Korans. He seems to be against any kind of tolerance towards people breathing in general.

frank mcguinness 4 years, 3 months ago

Well I think that 9/11 would make a great day for a good ol bible burning too.

Who's up for it?

frank mcguinness 4 years, 3 months ago

Well I think that 9/11 would make a great day for a good ol bible burning too.

Who's up for it?

overthemoon 4 years, 3 months ago

NO...leave it alone. It is like fingernails on a black board, but it makes it easier to spot your...comments! And yes, interesting that we all agree here. That is good. That makes my day, in fact. Let's build on that and maybe we'll discover that we actually agree on a lot of things???

grammaddy 4 years, 3 months ago

Does this mean we are all beginning to COEXIST? Gee I hope so. Leave the Fox news logo up Tom. According to "Twilight" sunlight doesn't kill vampires any more. It makes them glittery in the sun. I like thinking that your logo makes me sparkle too.

Eride 4 years, 3 months ago

Why shouldn't he be able to burn the Koran? Why shouldn't a newspaper be able to publish an image of Mohammad?

To me the fact that it "will incite violence against Americans" is a great reason to burn it. Someone needs to stand up and say enough is enough. People accuse this priest of being religiously intolerant, and that may be, but the truly intolerant ones are the Muslims who would harm innocent people because someone burned a book or published an image of their prophet.

I doubt we would see Christians threatening to go behead people if a group of Muslims burned bibles or made fun of Jesus (which hey, people do all the time...).

Maybe this particular person's reasons for wanting to burn it is wrong but the act itself is not.

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

He is able to do so.

The question is whether he should do it or not.

So you're advocating for us to do things which will inflame radical Muslims, possibly result in more American deaths, and very possibly turn off allies (moderate Muslims).

Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 3 months ago

"He is able to do so. The question is whether he should do it or not." Kinda like the building of the Ground Zero mosque, isn't it?

beatrice 4 years, 3 months ago

So how far out does Ground Zero radiate? At which block away are you no longer at Ground Zero? 5 blocks? 10 blocks? 20 blocks? Corks on all minarets because of the act of a few really horrible people?

In a story about a fanatic who is claiming to be a Christian despite doing things not at all Christ-like, you would think it would sink in for a few people that terrorists are anything but true Muslims.

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

Sure.

Except that project will make allies of moderate Muslims, show our religious tolerance and thus take away some of the radical Muslims' steam.

It will bother those Americans who cannot separate the actions of a small percentage of radical terrorists from the vast majority of Muslims.

somedude20 4 years, 3 months ago

"To me the fact that it "will incite violence against Americans" is a great reason to burn it."

For real? Wow, sounds like you never served or have had friends or family in the military. What a damn ignorant statement to make!!!

mbulicz 4 years, 3 months ago

So the best way to rally against fundamentalist pyromaniac extremists is to gather our fundamentalist pyromaniac extremists.

The best part is that I imagine few if any of these Florida zealots own a Quran and had to go out and buy one. I'm sure the publication companies will thank this group for their quarterly numbers.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 3 months ago

& that's why you spend your time and energy posting here?

mbulicz 4 years, 3 months ago

Someone message me with what he said. I need a good laugh.

Bossa_Nova 4 years, 3 months ago

this idiot pastor jones is scum. just like bin laden, he is looking to pick a fight and cause animosity between the christians and muslims. the christian leaders who have denounced this guy deserve a gold star.

Boosh 4 years, 3 months ago

Oh noes I jest seen da United way kickoff carny add up top. the background looks mightily like de risining sun flag from WWII. It's a conspiracy I tells ya :)

preebo 4 years, 3 months ago

I love how this place and this Pastor are living up to the Church's name. Dove World Outreach Center? Dove, isn't that the Judeo-Christian symbol for Peace? World, doesn't that include the middle-east, where a majority of Muslims reside and practice their particular faith? Outreach, how exactly is burning the religious doctrine of over one-billion people reaching out?

It's easy to evangelize those who already share your foundation for faith (US and Europe), but it is quite another to reach out to those with differing religious views (Middle East) and spread the message of Christ in an effort to allow His words to prevail.

Why not have a "Watchtower" burning celebration, or for that matter, a Book of Mormon burnin'? I mean these doctrines diverge from that of mainstream Christianity, so why not expand the festivities to them?

This is nothing more than veiled bigotry, and thinly veiled at that.

gudpoynt 4 years, 3 months ago

doing my part to defeat the spread of fear and hatred by ceasing to devote any more attention to these sad, pitiful people. On three, ready? One... two... three.

Gene Wallace 4 years, 3 months ago

I see that you are programmed with OS version ID.10T You are badly in need of an upgrade.

seriouscat 4 years, 3 months ago

War does not stimulate the economy. That is a common misperception by Americans brought about by WWII and is simply false.

The other misconception is that the draft is evil.

**the more you know

Clark Coan 4 years, 3 months ago

Does anyone believe in the Bill of Rights anymore? What about burning a Confederate flag at the Confederate Memorial (like Mt. Rushmore but for Davis, Lee and Stonewall Jackson) at Stone Mt. Park, Georgia?

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

Nobody's argued that the government should stop him from doing this.

Simply that it's a bad idea.

beatrice 4 years, 3 months ago

He has the right to do it ... just not a permit to do it.

I wonder if he would have been given a permit for a bonfire if he had said he wanted to burn Insane Clown Posse records instead?

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

Why would he need a permit to burn a book on his own property?

beatrice 4 years, 3 months ago

Florida law, I would imagine. He is planning a bonfire, not just burning a book in the fireplace.

"Mr. Jones’s plan faced a new hurdle last week when the Gainesville Fire Department rejected his request for a burning permit. Mr. Jones said he would go ahead anyway (“it’s just politics”), and he predicted a quite a scene." http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/us/26gainesville.html?_r=1&scp=4&sq=burning%20koran&st=cse

eldude 4 years, 3 months ago

I might be late on this but here it goes. This is cut from the same cloth as all the pinkos in this country that burn our flag ect ect. So along those lines where is the ACLU during all of this. Im begining to feel that the ACLU only gets involved when people are anti christan. Burning bibles and flags thats ok? Well then burn those Korans baby burn em good. I voted for this clown of a president and I think I will regret it for the rest of my life.

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

There are so many mistakes, of so many different kinds, in that post.

beatrice 4 years, 3 months ago

He isn't being denied the right to do it, so why should the ACLU be involved? Further, the ACLU has frequently come to the defense of Christians as well. You really should read up on what the ACLU has done before spouting off. Finally, what does Obama have to do with this guy?

Fred Whitehead Jr. 4 years, 3 months ago

Well, someone else made a note that Phlorida now has it's own very popular Phred Phelps. But the issue with me is the same as the moron of Topeka.

Why the hell does this story even exist? Why did some news-idiot give this any copy?This little band of bigots and idiots, much like the Topeka mental midgets, would not exist if they did not get any attention. Just what is gained by publishing the bizzare acts of one little stupid alleged pastor who is reality is a prejudiced, bigoted moron. There are plenty of them around, why make note of this one stupid jerk? This whole mess could have been avoided if the media rampant for ratings and advertising revenue had just left this alone and left these psuedo-religious slugs to stew in their own juice.

notaubermime 4 years, 3 months ago

I'll agree with that, but only as it applies to the oppressive regimes which are stifling the voice of the populace.

Terrorism, on the other hand, is something that I would argue is more a result of an inability to reconcile traditional cultural values with the challenges posed by a modern society. Issues like debt, equality, divorce and single-parent families, environmentalism, consumerism and materialism, and human rights are subjects that even our own society is struggling with. As western culture intentionally and unintentionally drags global social norms further towards modern values, it has seemed to lead towards greater extremism both abroad and in the politics and religious values on the domestic front. The United States, as the emblematic superpower of western culture, is therefore the scapegoat of foreign factions wishing to resist such changes (violently or otherwise). In this way, I would argue that it is not just Islam, but the entire world which needs to follow a process of 'enlightenment' whereby a new social milieu is formed much as a new governmental milieu was formed in the actual Enlightenment.

Meh, just my two cents.

seriouscat 4 years, 3 months ago

Yes, there is hope in that possibility. It surely going to get a lot more interesting for the generation that is coming up right now. I hope they are up for it!

dizzy_from_your_spin 4 years, 3 months ago

Gee, what if the pastor of a 50-member backwater church decided to burn a quran and nobody paid any attention?

No, let the press and politicians swarm and feed him the attention he craves.

geoismeo 4 years, 3 months ago

Pitts forgot to mention another group of people who like to burn things when they don't get thier way.

mr_right_wing 4 years, 3 months ago

If this gets the attention of radical Islam; it's like this guy is out hitting a killer-bee hive like it's a pinata.

I guess we'll see what happens.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 3 months ago

In other news: "..As a matter of policy, the Saudi regime shreds Bibles and other non-Islamic religious materials and items confiscated from those entering the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The Saudi Institute has confirmed this policy: "As a matter of official policy, the government either incinerates or dumps Bibles, crosses and other Christian paraphernalia," the Saudi Institute said in an article posted on its website. "Although considered as holy in Islam and mentioned in the Koran dozens of times, the Bible is banned in Saudi Arabia, and is confiscated and destroyed by government officials," it said..." http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/203850.php

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

Yes, and we ally ourselves with the Saudi regime.

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

The more that we seem to consider all of Islam an enemy rather than the fringe extremists, the more it seems to justify their ideas - that they are in a justified war with us.

jafs 4 years, 3 months ago

Based on everything I've read, I would say that he is most likely a moderate.

He is a Sufi, a branch of Islam that is mystical and quite liberal. He has condemned terrorism. He has worked for the Bush administration and this one on anti-terrorism.

There are a couple of things, which if interpreted a certain way, might generate suspicion.

But, my guess is that people are suspicious first, and then look to justify it, and ignore all of the contrary evidence.

The two things that are usually mentioned in order to claim he is really an enemy are his comments about America's foreign policy, and his refusal to label Hamas a terrorist organization.

I don't require him to agree with our foreign policy, or to get drawn into the Middle East mess.

independant1 4 years, 3 months ago

The koran/q'uran burning, not a good idea The bulding of muslim center near ground zero, not a good idea burning the flag, not a good idea burning the bible, not a good idea

TheYetiSpeaks 4 years, 3 months ago

True on all accounts....However I recognize our rights to do each one of those should we choose.

bevy 4 years, 3 months ago

This "pastor" immediately put me in mind of Phred. He blackens the name of Christ and all true believers. There is no love in this act, it promotes nothing but intolerance and misunderstanding. Perhaps the Rev. needs to read his Bible (though his relationship with books and ideas is apparently tenuous if not downright adversarial.) Even if he considers Muslims his enemy, the Bible says "Love your enemies and bless those that persecute you."

I never thought I'd see a Leonard Pitts article that I would agree with. Is this a sign of the apocalypse?

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