School district considering teacher housing
School board president Rich Minder wants to be able to pay teachers what they're worth. A possible way to get around the lack of education funding would be to offer cheaper rent in district-owned family housing. Enlarge video
Teacher housing
Rich Minder, president of the Lawrence school board, explains the thinking behind his idea for a "teacherage" in town.
As school districts grapple with budget cuts that show no signs of healing, administrators are searching for new ways to use their limited money even more effectively.
Among the latest suggestions: Consider building or maintaining a “teacherage,” a complex where educators could live with the Lawrence school district as their landlord.
“We could literally get into the housing business,” suggests Rich Minder, president of the Lawrence school board and co-founder of Delaware Street Commons, a co-housing neighborhood in east Lawrence.
The idea of a Lawrence teacherage hasn’t exactly gained momentum — at least not yet — but its mere mention shows just how wide a net educators are casting to stretch their dollars in the coming years.
Board members eliminated programs, projects and projected raises to save $4.6 million heading into this academic year, and professionals throughout the district fear another round of fickle financing this coming year.
Compensation often rises to the top of discussion agendas, as the district’s more than 900 licensed teachers are considered key to providing high-quality education to the more than 10,000 students who rely on their expertise.
Minder’s suggestion to provide teachers with below-market-price housing options is simply an extension of such discussions.
“There are things other than salary that are important to teachers,” acknowledged Rick Doll, district superintendent.
But that doesn’t necessarily mean the housing concept will gain traction.
“At first blush, it seems like a good idea,” said Deena Burnett, who teaches English at West Junior High School, has been an educator for 30 years and now serves as co-chair for the Lawrence Education Association and as a member of the association’s negotiating team. “But it still begs the question: When will we pay our professionally educated public school teachers a professional wage?”
Minder understands teachers’ frustrations, and acknowledges frustrations of his own. The Kansas Legislature continues to cut the amount of money provided to districts — the $4,492 per pupil that was supposed to be allocated to districts for this year actually was cut to $4,012 — as part of their general funds, which are used to pay teacher salaries and other expenses.
But paying for housing could come from the district’s capital outlay budget. This year, the district’s capital outlay budget includes plans to spend $12.75 million on construction projects, renovating buildings, replacing furniture and the like.
In future years, Minder said, the district could consider using some of such money on housing — whether it’s to buy land, build homes and sell them to new teachers, or to buy an existing apartment complex to be managed for teachers, who would pay below-market rents.
Such property would go off the public tax rolls, Minder said, and could provide a real incentive for teachers looking to locate in Lawrence and stay in Lawrence.
A hundred years ago, he said, it was common for communities to own and maintain “teacherages” for their educators.
“It may be good to go back to some of those old ideals and ideas that we had, of how we can be creative in supporting our teaching staff,” Minder said. “It’s just another way that the community can support our teachers.”
Comments
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jmadison (anonymous) says…
I sold my soul to the company store.
merrill (anonymous) says…
What construction projects?
I say no to providing living quarters. That adds to the operational budget expenses.
USD 497 needs to stay out of the real estate industry.
Teachers can apply to Tenants To Homeowners for an energy efficient home at a very reasonable cost. I say give that a shot first.
cheeseburger (anonymous) replies…
Is this merrill, speaking against one of his liberal, left-leaning buddies? Amazing!
somebodynew (anonymous) says…
Let me be clear up front - I do not know this guy and am not really accusing him of anything, BUT -
I do find it interesting that I just read an article where back taxes are owed by this housing complex he is part owner in, because of unsold condos. Now, would he suggest, if the district approved this idea, that the first units come from his complex ??? And, if so, isn't it interesting the little sentence in the story about how "teacherages" would come OFF the public tax rolls????
Trying to kill two birds with one idea???? Just questions that need answers before this idea proceeds.
cheeseburger (anonymous) replies…
My thoughts exactly - sounds like a potential conflict of interest.
Pay the teachers a decent wage and let them decide where they want to live.
Shardwurm (anonymous) replies…
No Cheesburger - Pay the GOOD teachers a decent wage and fire the bad ones.
Oh...wait - Tenure and the Union won't let us. Scrap that idea. Until we shed the system of those two things neither teacher quality nor the quality of education will improve.
cheeseburger (anonymous) replies…
Shardwurm (anonymous) replies…
No Cheesburger - Pay the GOOD teachers a decent wage and fire the bad ones.
I can live with that. You were reading too much into my remark.
Success (Rich Minder) replies…
Let me clear this up straight away. I asked the LJW if I could come to the News Center for this story, which LJW Staff initiated. LJW staff asked to come to my Cohousing Neighborhood to film and conduct the interview.
Our community's declaration of covenants and restrictions are not designed for institutional buyers so the idea that I am using my position on the Board to get the District to purchase homes in our Cohousing neighborhood is not feasible and certainly not what I had in mind when I first explored the idea of teacherages seven years ago - before we built our neighborhood.
I would like to add that the idea of teacherages is just an idea to explore. I certainly don't have anywhere near the expertise to think through all the implications of such a strategy much less steer a process to my own personal gain.
maudeandcecil (anonymous) replies…
I think it's an interesting idea, certainly worth exploring.
thelonious (anonymous) replies…
You said: A hundred years ago, he said, it was common for communities to own and maintain “teacherages” for their educators.
“It may be good to go back to some of those old ideals and ideas that we had, of how we can be creative in supporting our teaching staff,” Minder said. “It’s just another way that the community can support our teachers.”
I say: Hey, here's a way we can be supportive of our teaching staff - pay them enough to afford a home of their own wherever they choose to live. A hundred years ago, our society was largely agrarian, schools were mostly one-room shoolhouses, and teachers not only were provided living quarters, but food, etc., and most were young, single women. This is a ridiculous idea, and deeply insulting to anyone who is a professional teacher or married to one (as I am). As a member of the school board, you should be fighting for public education, which includes fighting for adequate funding for appropriate facilities and appropriate salaries for professional educators, not throwing in the towel by suggesting something as repulsive as offering "teacher ghetto" housing to the school district's underpaid teachers. Maybe the city should cut the pay of the police and firefighters to balance the budget and then offer them their own police and firefighter housing ghettoes.
maudeandcecil (anonymous) replies…
Teacher ghetto is a bit harsh. You understand that he’s talking about taking dollars from a fund that technically can’t be used to pay salaries, right? The Board can’t raise salaries with capital outlay dollars; your wife’s salary is paid out of the general fund.
I think Mr. Minder is simply suggesting that this may be a benefit that the district could offer teachers. Obviously, you’d have to poll teachers for level of interest, but I could certainly see how a teacher just starting out might benefit from such a program. State dollars for education are limited and they will likely always be that way (under Brownback, for sure). So personally, I’m intrigued with the idea of looking for ways to ease teachers’ basic monthly bills; thereby freeing up money they can direct toward other things. I guess I just don’t see it conflicting with the good and constant fight to raise teacher’s salaries.
There are more contemporary models than the one that Mr. Minder references. For example, I’m aware of several universities that offer university owned housing to staff and faculty at a reduce rate. I’m also aware that these programs have waiting lists.
All that being said, what bothers me is we really don’t have capital outlay dollars for a housing program that would almost surely benefit a limited number of teachers. After all, we do have that ever growing athletic project budget and then there are those repairs to elementary schools that we can never seem to find the dollars to repair... so there's this part of me that feels frustrated that you've mentioned this now, Mr. Minder. The timing seems all wrong.
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) replies…
Pleeeze, save us from Minder and Co.'s models.
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
100 years ago, we also used to fire teachers when they got married. I hate stupid "wisdom of the ages" arguments.
commuter (anonymous) says…
Last week, he wants to close the lunch period at the high schools so students can learn to eat halthy and save their money from eating fast food, now he wants to own housing for teachers. Does he think he knows what is best for everyone??
Also the district has a hard time maintain the facilities they already own, do you honestly think they could do better by adding housing? I do not. I have no faith in them.
edson443 (anonymous) says…
Lawrence Public School becomes a slum lord.
tnt1985 (anonymous) says…
What a GREAT idea? Let's start by hiring a "teacher housing coordinator and a "residential unit acquisition coordinator". Maybe even an "assistant superintendent of teacher housing". Of course, they'll need a staff and office space, but we can take care of that with a bond issue or a tax increase. Then we can add staff to the maintenance department to take care of the houses. We can even start a whole new curriculum for entrepreneurial students. We can teach them how to buy houses and then "save" money by renting them out far below market value. I guess the only problem will be how unfair it is to the other districts when all of their best teachers quit and apply to work in Lawrence so that they can live in school district housing. Who could turn that down!? OMG!
Kookamooka (MJ Browne) says…
It's official. This is such a depressing idea, we must be in a depression.
monkeyhawk (anonymous) says…
If one's indoctrination motivation is not strong enough to overcome the low pay that accompanies the position, simply do not become a teacher. Further, who needs someone like this homeless looking person educating children on how to become welfare sucks?
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) replies…
Now that's a load of condescending drivel that would make even Glenn Beck proud. Well done, monkeyhawk.
monkeyhawk (anonymous) replies…
...coming from the desk of "I am the only one with valid opinions", huh boozo? It figures that this guy would be one of your buds.
GardenMomma (anonymous) says…
Wow. I can't forsee any potential backlash from this. (What if the teachers don't want to live in subsidized housing? What if they retire, quit, or get fired? What happens if a school needs emergency repairs and the capital outlay monies are tied up in real estate?)
But I do have to recognize Rich Minder's outside the box thinking. Maybe that's all it is, a thought and not a potential reality. At least the board is thinking of ways to maximize the potential and give benefits to the educators since they can't use capital money for salary increases.
Victoria (anonymous) replies…
I wish he would get back in the box and shut the lid.
beatnik (anonymous) says…
maybe we can we raise our taxes to pay for these apartments?
newmedia (anonymous) says…
More socialism?
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) says…
This article just disproved the theory that there is no such thing as bad publicity.
kernal (anonymous) says…
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! You gotta be kidding me.
The_Big_B (anonymous) says…
Good grief!
Made_in_China (Paul R. Getto) says…
Can be done, and housing cost is a consideration. The question is, should it be done? The law was most often used in Western Kansas where housing is scarce and it has been traditionally difficult to attract new professional employees.
===========
Article 82.--organization, powers and finances of boards of education
72-8211. Teacherages. The board of education of any unified school district may acquire, purchase, construct, rent, operate and maintain suitable quarters for the use of its teachers. Such quarters may consist of real or personal property or both, and may be referred to as "teacherages." The acquisitions of such property for teacherages shall be by resolution of the board of education, which shall be published once in a newspaper of general circulation within the county or counties where such school district is located. If, within thirty (30) days after publication of such resolution, there is filed a petition signed by qualified electors equal in number to not less than ten percent (10%) of the electors who voted at the last general school election, demanding that such resolution be submitted to a vote of the electors in such school district, such resolution shall not take effect until submitted to a referendum and approved by a majority of the qualified electors voting thereon. Such referendum may be held at a special election called for such purpose or at the general school election. Any school district may dispose of any teacherage or any interest therein or part thereof as provided by law for other school property.
History: L. 1968, ch. 131, § 1; July 1.
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) replies…
And Almanzo can pick up the teachers for the Friday night social.
justavoice (anonymous) replies…
Now that's funny! I don't care who you are.
Finnbar1 (anonymous) replies…
ah....Almanzo can pick me up anytime.
rodentgirl16 (anonymous) replies…
I was thinking the same thing. Awesome!
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) says…
Maybe we can have the teachers man the nice new concession stands at the sports events, and earn their raises. Or how about a bake sale at HyVee? Is this how we treat the people that we entrust our children to?
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) replies…
They're already doing that. They have been for decades.
imastinker (anonymous) says…
What a mess!
I don't even know where to start.
OK - here goes:
1) I find it very unlikely that the Lawrence school board could manage rental property without costs exceeding market rates. Margins are relatively low to get into rental property in the first place, and initial investment is high. There are great tax reasons to do it - none of which the school can even take advantage of.
2) I am not even convinced that the school should own the buildings it does. I think it could use private money to finance and build schools and lease at a rate that is cheaper than what it costs them now to own it. I've seen what it costs to build a school - and it's scary! Private investors are much more aware of costs than public projects - because that's where they make their money!
Yes - that's right. I think that most public projects could be done cheaper by being private projects where an investor makes money on it because there is so much waste in public projects that it would be cheaper to pay a profit to the company doing the project than afford the costs as they are. Look at the cost of the proposed library!
3) I think this proposal is degrading to teachers.
notajayhawk (anonymous) replies…
"and initial investment is high"
Not to a school board member spending taxpayer dollars, it isn't.
notajayhawk (anonymous) says…
1) If prospective teachers aren't bright enough to know what their expected income will be when they graduate and get a job, perhaps they aren't following the right career path.
2) Using capital funds to increase the compensation for teachers makes a mockery of the argument that we spend money on football fields instead of school books because we can't mix capital expenditures with operating budgets.
jackson5 (anonymous) replies…
You are absolutely right.
Maintenence workers are paid out of capital outlay. The board wants to pay teachers more and they seem willing to use capital outlay to do it. They should consider giving teachers a "capital improvement" type task for one hour (such as supervising the maintenence staff) and pay them the extra salary out of capital outlay. State law doesn't limit what we pay for maintence work or their supervisors.
This is not the best way to give deserving and highly trained folks a raise, but it is better than 1) no raise, 2) living next to co-workers in a company owned complex and 3) getting into the real estate business.
LHS, CJH and SJH flunked the AYP test. Our district is On Improvement. Let's stop thinking about construction and focus on learning!!!!!!
notajayhawk (anonymous) replies…
They should just do away with the charade of capital vs. operating expenses altogether. It's all one big pot of money, it all comes out of OUR pockets. We should be the ones who decide whether to spend it on education, or on a new ball field or performing arts center.
jackson5 (anonymous) replies…
Right again.
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) replies…
Hey, how about a dorm for all of the kids who don't pass their AYP test. We could pay teachers overtime to "immerse" the kids in what they need to meet standards. We could call it the Tutelage Teacherage.
ilovelucy (anonymous) says…
Absolutely ludicrous. Rich, you are a nincompoop.
Moderateguy (anonymous) says…
"One of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them: It is a well known fact, that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. Anyone who is capable of getting themselves into a position of power should on no account be allowed to do the job. Another problem with governing people is people." - Douglas Adams
Cogito_Ergo_Es (anonymous) says…
You can bet the property he finds will be within the boundaries of New York Elementary as well as Central Jr. High. We want as many people as possible with a vested interest in keeping those doors open. And if a few units at Delaware Commons sold too, so be it. Nope, no conflict of interest here.
wysiwyg69 (anonymous) says…
When I see this persons picture, I think it is Danny Bonaduce from the Partridge family.
lawrenceks66 (anonymous) replies…
That SO made me laugh .. LOVE IT!!!
gr3sam (anonymous) says…
If "somebodynew" is correct, at the very least, it raises an appearance of impropriety. Why didn't LJW bring this up in the first place? This idea should be viewed in light of the actual reality of the proponent.
Probably best to hear from some teachers and see if there is any interest at all. While I, like most of you, would not be interested maybe it would be an incentive that would appeal to some young teachers that can't afford a home and are barely getting by on the pittance that we're paying teachers. We simply can't continue to slash teachers' pay and benefits and treat them like third class citizens and expect them not to move to some other district that actually treats them with respect.
It's an interesting concept that should not be in print until it was seen if it has any appeal to any teachers.
BigPrune (anonymous) says…
Great idea! The teachers could live like share croppers in a fenced in compound. If the teacher gets paid $2000 a month, charge them $2000 for their room and board (including utilities). The school district could have total control over their lives. It could be almost like a prison or the former Soviet Union or a plantation down in Louisiana. Nice.
KSManimal (anonymous) replies…
Holding teachers hostage for exhorbitant rent in Louisiana isn't as far off as you think.
Here's what happens where profiteers get involved in public education:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/educatio...
lawrenceks66 (anonymous) says…
And what about the teachers who, like Ms. Burnett, have been teaching for 30 years? Do they get a monthly stipend to pay on their mortgage or utilities?
Or what about people on the board .. are they going to get sumthin' special for serving? Oh WAIT .. they already do! They get to spend OUR money on STUPID things .....
And how long would a teacher be allowed to stay in the said "teacherage"? Will they get additional money if they are married .. or have children and need more accommodations???
We need to get what we - yes we rich minder - own (it's our tax dollars you're wasting!) .. and have them maintained and brought up to date opposed to this stupid idea.
lawrenceks66 (anonymous) replies…
And what happens when the new teachers don't WANT to live there and it's sitting around empty .. nothing being paid (draining more of our tax dollars) and it becomes and eye sore .. or worse a drug house?!?!?!?
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) replies…
Maybe the retired teachers could stay in a dowager teacherage.
spiderd (anonymous) says…
At least somebody is thinking!! Bad ideas are entirely under rated... while obviously not as handy as good ones, they tower over what we get from most folks... squat.
sinkorswim (anonymous) says…
What??? This is beyond ridiculous! What other profession would consider doing things like they were a hundred years ago? What would come next for the teacher commune? Sister-teacher-wives? Required dressing-like-a-Duggar?? The whole idea is embarrassing and degrading to the profession. Will other professions follow with doctorages, lawyerages, engineerages, journalismages, etc? Of course not!
How about paying our teachers what they pay in similar area school districts and let them choose where they want to live? I'm guessing most teachers aren't interested in filling up the empty condos where the current school board president is part-owner. Trying to get a little help with his back taxes maybe??
lawrenceks66 (anonymous) says…
“We could literally get into the housing business,” suggests Rich Minder, president of the Lawrence school board and co-founder of Delaware Street Commons, a co-housing neighborhood in east Lawrence.
_________
OH .. and by the way .. you're not IN the housing business representing the school district .. you're in the education business ....
tigerman03 (anonymous) says…
What kind of journalism is this?!? Is the JW really Pravda?? This article reads like a friggin propaganda sheet from the 1960's...Subsidized housing for teachers????
Man, that really sounds sooo 'enticing' live like you did in college for the rest of your life?!?
That's not a profession, that is prison. Are you ready to be fitted for your state issued jumpsuits as well??? How about a subsidized transportation from your 'compound' er-I mean housing on a state-owned/operated bus to the 'indoctrination center' er-I mean work?? Is the district going to get them rusty, state owned Yugos for being good indoctrinators as well?!?
Give me a break!!!
As it was stated above--TAX money is NOT 'yours' usd 497, you work for us!!!
Hail to our glorious party!
hitme (anonymous) says…
Hey, we finally have a use for the former Farmland site. We'll call it the TTP (Teacher Trailer Park) In return, they can spend their summer off cleaning up the site.
LarryM (Larry Miller) says…
While I do think it is a bad idea at least it is an idea. The school board is between a rock and a hard place and is trying to figure out what to do before they are forced into a bad choice. So keep it up Rich ( and the rest of the school board!)
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) replies…
Is that all the better you lefties can do: "It may be crap, but at least it's an idea"? Stay tuned for the Minder led task force group, which will define a community. That should be interesting.
OldEnuf2BYurDad (anonymous) says…
This entire idea is a capitulation, a resignation that teachers will never be paid what they are worth and that their status as a lower class of professional is eminent. If this takes hold on a national scale, it will create a caste system in which school teachers live near the poverty line with no hope of any real financial security. This would be the nail in the coffin of public education. Our public schools are one generation away from closing outright.
Q: What's the difference between a school teacher and a 16" pizza?
A: A 16" pizza can feed a family of four.
boog (Boog Highberger) says…
Thanks to Rich Minder for bringing forward this excellent idea. Last year, the Affordable Housing Task Force did a survey of publicly owned land in Lawrence that might be available and suitable for affordable housing development, and the school district was the only local governing body that had any substantial holdings. Rather than the school district owning the land, I think a better model would be for the school district to partner with Tenants to Homeowners and Lawrence Community Housing Trust, which could put the property back on the tax rolls while keeping the housing permanently affordable.
thelonious (anonymous) replies…
I can't believe you are saying this...the whole idea is an acknowledgement that we simply won't pay teachers enought to live on, and instead plan to turn them into semi-serfs. I certainly am disappointed hearing this from you. You should be fighting for adequate public education funding, not throwing in the towel with ideas such as this.
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) replies…
Seriously, the school board (or should I just say Minder) needs to stay out of economic or urban planning. I have been poking fun at this all morning, but, thelonious has addressed this very eloquently. This is a shameful way to address the underpayment of our teachers. On a side note, I suddenly feel the urge to listen to some Monk.
sunflower97 (Amy Bartle) says…
I'm not sure I would like to live where all the people I see at work everyday also live. I bet there are a lot of teachers who feel the same way. But why focus on building affordable housing just for the teachers? If Lawrence is going to build affordable housing, anyone who can afford it ought to be able to live there.
beebo (anonymous) says…
Why stop at housing for teachers? We should consider providing housing for all City and County employees as well......It wouldn't be fair to just provide this benefit to teachers. What about the lunch lady? The janitor?
slowplay (anonymous) says…
I have got to stop reading these comment sections. It's depressing to see so many idiotic comments. It was simply a suggestion, a what if, a thought provoker. Half the commentators are acting like it's a done deal. The other half turn the topic to promote their own agendas.
Something needs to be done to attract qualified teachers. Our educational systems are falling apart and Americans are becoming grossly undereducated. As witnessed by these comments.
lawrenceks66 (anonymous) replies…
If we don't speak up now on these forums AND at the board meetings .. it IS a done deal!!! You can sit there and read all you want .. I'm commenting AND writing a letter to the school board about this waste of our tax dollars! They need to know we do not support items if we don't support them ..
rivercitymom (anonymous) says…
Why don't we just get rid of some of the fat over at USD 497 headquarters? Seriously, if Minder wants to think outside the box, that would be an excellent start. I absolutely do not mind paying higher taxes and school fees for the teachers who are there for our kids. But I am really tired of handing over more and more money to the overpaid administrators. At the end of the day, what the administrators do is superflous. The teachers in the trenches are making the difference and we should not continue to insult them with this discrepancy in wages . . . when we all know who is doing the actual work.
chocolateplease (anonymous) says…
This idea opens up so many cans of worms that I can hardly even begin in stating my opposition to it. What about all the teachers who already have homes? What about people coming in to work for the district who prefer to obtain their own housing un-related to their employer but who want the financial benefit? What about the fact that the school district has no expertise or experience in managing housing sales and rentals? What about the lack of efficiency (think of the overhead!) in using funds this way versus a direct transfer of monies to the teachers via salaries or other means? Keep brainstorming, please!
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) replies…
Maybe the school district could develop a subdivision. They could use the 20 acres that they purchased last year for 1.7 million. Maybe the teachers could be offered building lots at reduced prices.
JJE007 (anonymous) says…
I just don't understand why teachers can't live in their school rooms, along with their students. Then our children could all be home schooled! It would also be helpful to empty all the prisons and use that space to house children and teachers, too. The guards could stay. Food services, etcetera should remain. We don't want to lose jobs. The parents can then rent out their kids' rooms to the released prisoners to pay for their kids' room and board in prison and school. The prisoners could pay for their rooms by stealing and/or by becoming teacher's aides and assisting in shop, chop and hock. This is gonna work. I just know it!~)
Sigmund (anonymous) says…
So we pay teachers less if they live in a teacherage? This is a plan to help balance the budget? It is not like the district is having problems attracting teachers, is it? Is this a solution in search of a problem or this is a solution to Rich Minder's Deleware Commons problem?
If I were a teacher I would rather have a higher salary and live where I choose than accept less salary and and live in some kind of teacher commune. Is this School Board as moronic as the last months articles on school lunches, school boundaries, and teacherages implies, or are those examples too small of a sample to judge?
spiderd (anonymous) replies…
Yes, if I were a teacher I too would rather have a higher salary and choose where I want to live. And, I would want a pony.
rockchalk1977 (anonymous) says…
Taxpayer handouts for government union employees? Maybe Rich Minder should find a new place to live. What a nutty idea.
Sigmund (anonymous) says…
SO As Rich Minder is a President of the Lawrence School Board, and
As Rich Minder is concerned with where teachers live, and
As Rich Minder is a co-founder of Delaware Street Commons, a co-housing neighborhood in east Lawrence;
be it resolved, that Rich Minder SHALL give all teachers a 50% discount to purchase housing in the co-housing neighborhood.
All in Favor say aye: AYE!
Opposed?
DEDO (anonymous) says…
The School Board is my Shepard, I shall not want.
hews (anonymous) says…
This appears to be the proposal of 1 Board member. Don't forget, it takes at least 4 votes for a School Board to take action on anything.
lawrenceks66 (anonymous) replies…
Yes .. but Loveland is on there and she's a nutty as he is .. so there's 2 .. half way there!
smitty (anonymous) says…
My neighbor is a teacher and she bought a home thru the H O O T program. We do not need this duplication of services? We do not need to create another bureaucracy as described above by tnt1985 at 6:46.
Did_I_say_that (DIST) says…
This is simply Minder attempting to control others ... http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/did_i...
PennyBrite (anonymous) says…
so if a teacher lives in that housing and then gets laid off, what happens? or if the teacher retires, what happens? or takes a medical leave of absence, what happens?
lawrenceks66 (anonymous) replies…
More excellent questions, PennyBrite!!!
AlfVenison (Alf Venison) says…
One word: Camps.
Let them out during the day to teach. Back to the camp at the end of the day to grade papers and work on lesson plans. They can apply for leave during the summer to attend classes and purchase supplies for their students for the next school year. Otherwise, during the summer downtime, crews of teachers can be conscripted each morning at the camp's front gate to serve on work details around the district: painting, repairing furniture, cleaning windows. Some of them can be made available to the School of Education for experiments.
AlfVenison (Alf Venison) replies…
Additional thoughts:
Working and living together will engender camaraderie and teamwork.
The district can transport teachers to and from their schools on school buses, thereby reducing the carbon footprint and sparing the teachers transportation expenses. To spare the expense of additional bus drivers, all teachers can be trained and licensed to drive the buses and then take turns on a daily of weekly basis (to be determined democratically by a vote) driving their colleagues to work.
none2 (anonymous) replies…
Or why not set it up with just two big homes -- one for male teachers and one for female teachers. It could be setup like some of the scholarship halls at KU or the greek houses where there are a large number of bunk beds for all residences. Every teacher then could have free room and board. Plus allow them to ride the school buses to school -- they can double up as buss monitors. Just think of all the money they could pocket without any food, shelter, or transportation costs. If we also included uniforms, that would be another savings for teachers. Basically, a teacher could have all their salary go into buildig their nest egg.
TruthinAdvertising (anonymous) says…
“But it still begs the question: When will we pay our professionally educated public school teachers a professional wage?”
In today's world you've got to be delusional if you don't think teachers in Kansas receive a fair wage:
$38220 Avg. Elementary Teacher Salary
$38600 Avg. Secondary Teacher Salary
104% Teacher Salary vs. State Average Worker
15 Vacation Weeks Per Year:
3 Years to Tenure:
rockchalk1977 (anonymous) replies…
How many days per year do they actually "work" as teachers? Let's take their avgerage salary and divide it by the number of hours they are in the classroom. It think you will find most teachers are well compensated based on the results they achieve.
Agnostick (anonymous) replies…
Really? That's all you have?
Really?
roflmao!!!!!
What a complete joke you are...
rockchalk1977 (anonymous) replies…
Very intelligent come back. Did something happen in your childhood to make you so angry and bitter?
SpeedRacer (anonymous) replies…
I have to somewhat agree. Lawrence wages/salaries are not very high for anyone who works here. Those with the average highest incomes work outside of Lawrence. I know several teachers, and those I know are one of two working spouses who own relatively nice homes. The "teacherage" concept is ludicrous...from a time when lodging was part of the salary and teachers were expected to be spinsters and bachelors and subject to public scrutiny.
KSManimal (anonymous) replies…
"In today's world you've got to be delusional if you don't think teachers in Kansas receive a fair wage:
$38220 Avg. Elementary Teacher Salary
$38600 Avg. Secondary Teacher Salary
104% Teacher Salary vs. State Average Worker"
The "average" teacher holds a Master's Degree. What level of training/education/licensing does the "average state worker" have?
rockchalk1977 (anonymous) replies…
Does the "average state worker" only work 180 days a year? Try 250.
Does the "average state worker" have every Wednesday afternoon off to plan? Not likely.
Does the "average state worker" whine incessantly about what they make? Probably.
Look, I love teachers but they all know up front what the deal is. Teaching is not the highest paying profession but the benefit of having so much time off during the summer and holidays is the draw. If you calculate it out, teachers in Lawrence make about $30/hr + benefits. That doesn't sound too bad!
smartygirlwu (anonymous) replies…
You're right, teachers do have a shorter year than many other professions. You're assuming that every teacher only works those 180 days though. Trust me, most teachers put in many more days for which they are not compensated.
Not every school district has an early release program. Just because there aren't students in the classroom doesn't mean work is not being done.
I don't really know if the average state worker whines or not, but I don't know many teachers who whine about what they make. We realize going in that we're never going to be wealthy. It's difficult to be held to the same standards as other licensed professionals and receive far less compensation though.
I did some math, and I am not making anywhere near $30+ an hour. That's even if I were only working 7.75 hours for exactly 180 days. That's not the reality though. I work at least 9 hours everyday. Sometimes more than that. Most teachers do.
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) replies…
Thank you for working so hard for our kids. Having volunteered in classrooms regularly since the 1990's, I can tell you that most of the people "doing the math" would not last a day in the classroom.
VoiceOfReason (anonymous) replies…
9 hours...wow! With a Master's degree in Accounting, and holding my CPA certificate (requiring I pass the CPA exam and work 2 years as an accountant under a CPA), I made $37,400 a year. That included 40-hour work weeks for 8 months and 20-hour work DAYS, six to seven days a week, for 4 months. I also had to attend continuing education, for which I wasn't paid (which you all seem to think justifies your summers off). I got 3 weeks of PTO (which constituted my vacation AND sick time) and was threatened with firing if I dared to take Easter SUNDAY off, because it was close to the end of tax season. Suck it up, quit whining, and quit expecting the world to hand you everything because you're a teacher. You're unionized! REAL professionals don't unionize.
Godot (anonymous) says…
In a sane world, a school board member who is delinquent on his or his business' property taxes would be forced to resign. But in Lawrence, we promote him to president of the school board.
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
The usual wailing and foaming by the usual extremist trolls only serves to underline the basic shortfalls instigating this novel way of thinking.
Socialism, Communism, Statism, -ism -ism -ism.
Not one of you have mentioned "capitalism." Why not?
I'll tell you why: You don't have the spine for it. You don't have the stones to admit that the same God of Capitalism to which you (sometimes blindly) bow down and worship has, at the moment, planted his/her foot squarely on the back of your neck.
Burnett asks the only valid question: "When will we pay our professionally educated public school teachers a professional wage?"
There are lots and lots of professional development opportunities for teachers: advanced degrees, national board certification, ESL certification, the list goes on. Teachers who take advantage of these opportunities, and successfully complete them, expect to be paid. At the district my wife teaches in, teachers who achieve some of these things are either advanced to a different level on the pay scale, or receive an annual bonus tied to the achievement. (NBPTS certification is one example of an annual bonus.)
Don't want to pay the better teachers what they're worth? They'll go elsewhere. They'll get the best deal they can get. "Capitalism," right?
Minder, and others (not just in Lawrence, but across the nation) are in the same boat, facing the same dilemma: How do we keep the best teachers we have from going elsewhere? If our hands are tied and we can't offer them more money... what else can we offer them?
It really is quite a hoot to read some of these comments, especially those that blame Rich Minder.
Wanna put the blame where it really belongs? Look in the mirror, and start your cursing.
That's called "Realism."
Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
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Agnostick (anonymous) says…
BTW... the idea of a "teacherage" has been around a long time. One example:
http://wyoshpo.state.wy.us/NationalRe...
For the record, I agree with many here who have pointed out the many obstacles in this idea. Back in the days when Lawrence had a one-room school, and only one teacher... this kind of thing made a lot of sense. It's still used in some sparsely-populated areas... but in a community the size of Lawrence, it would create more problems than its worth.
Grade "E" for "Effort," though.
volunteer (anonymous) says…
What a wacko.
And I thought the KCMO school district had some conflict-of-interest types on its Board...
Don't tell me... this guy was also a supporter of the "let school out at 1:30 on Wednesdays so teachers can collaborate" idea...
Danimal (anonymous) says…
This is an awful idea and I'm certain that any savings would be consumed by the necessary expansion to administer and maintain these homes. Where was the funding going to come from? Of course, from cutting teachers already meager salaries. I know that there are those out there who say teachers are over payed and that's a lot of bull. You would have to get well into six figures before I would be willing to put up with people's spoiled little brats. Besides, why wouldn't educators want the ability to go out and buy a home that will (hopefully) appreciate in value and be a sound investment for them?
Interesting idea, but I think it would be a horrible disaster that would ultimately cost far more once the district has to start doing more maintenance as the facilities age.
westcl (anonymous) says…
teachers also used to stay with the families of their students. wouldn't that be a great way to live?
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) replies…
I bet there were some real jocks at some homes who would have loved to have the teacher(female) at LHS who got fired.
Maybe Mary Loveland and Rich Minder could take in some teachers OR maybe Loveland would buy a home for teachers to rent at below market rate. uh huh!
Easy_Does_It (anonymous) says…
So we have 1 teacher looking after 11.1 kids. If we canned 100 that ratio would go up 1.3 kid(s) per teacher.
Agnostick (anonymous) replies…
And what do you think would happen to your dropout rate, Easy_Bake...?
Hhhmmm..??
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
wilbur laughed so hard this morning he had to take some kaopectate to stop the runs.
Lawrence is now getting full blast what it deserves with the idiots that were elected to the school board and the passage of TWO ill conceived bond issues (another in the works, folks!).
If we are going to provide housing for teachers, then all female teachers must be unmarried and virgins(that's going to be a hard find in the Lawrence district!!:) :)
Then the idea of taking a property OFF the tax rolls is even more absurd. Even Minder hasn't figured out either how teachers are paid.
Minder will come to his senses, when those units at Delaware Commons cannot be sold and Minder will find his way to Loring Henderson's scheme. Even Henderson is beginning to look better than the school board and it's members.
We thought Loveland was way out in space, now it's Minder taking the lead.
Oh well, it was fun reading it and a good way to relieve oneself before the activity this coming weekend.
As far as the teachers not being able to buy homes, that's a hard stretch since the district employees spouse and spouse or partner and partner , but oh, we have the single mom syndrome in Lawrence within the district.
Fooey, there are people working in private employment that figure out how to buy what they want.
From the looks of the employees parking lots at the schools, Mr. Minder is wrong that the teachers are underpaid and "suffering".
It is the board that is "suffering", They need some of the meds that most of the town is on or maybe they have been. I wonder if Delaware Commons celebrates at 420 am and pm?
artichokeheart (anonymous) says…
I don't think this is a terrible idea. Teahers in Lawrence are not making the same money as in other districts. I know of a associate principal at LHS that communtes from Topeka daily. I imagine there are others that do the same. Knowing how USD 497 operates though I suppose they will be requesting yet another tax increase to fund this. I'm just not sure the citizens of Lawrence can afford another tax.. If this is going to happen I would prefere to see some substantial cuts at the district level that is not passed on to the parents.
Godot (anonymous) replies…
How can the school board propose any tax increase whatsoever when the school board president is delinquent for more ethan $27,000 in property taxes? Minder has figured out how to be the only paid member of the school board - be a tax cheat!!
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) replies…
It's actually quite common for builders and developers to not pay the property taxes on their spec houses until it closes. Then it just comes out of their check from the bank.
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) replies…
It is also grounds for default under their loan. News flash: if you do this in the current banking economy, you will be forclosed on before you can say Jack Robinson. Of course the bank may ride out this one in hopes that they won't have to own and interest in Deleware Commons.
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) replies…
Not on a construction loan it's not. A mortgage loan yes, but not a construction loan.
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) replies…
What planet do you do business on. I have 30+ years experience with construction/commercial loans. And, my friend, I am still in business. Not paying your taxes is a very risky and low life way to defer holding costs. And, as a matter of honor, if you owe the local community taxes, you should pay them. I find it ironic that Minder is all too willing to foolishly spend our taxes, but is not willing to pay his taxes.
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) replies…
I never said that it was the right thing to do... just a very common thing that gets done by builders/developers. VERY common.
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) replies…
I would tend to dissagree. During the past two years banks have been asking builders and developers for updated financial statements every 6 months or so. Banks are looking for anything that might be a sign that a builder/developer is about to go under. Notes are being called all the time for devalued collateral, etc. In this climate, if a partnership does not pay its taxes, this is a red flag to the lender, because it shows that the borrower does not have the cash reserves to pay their taxes. I would say that a good number of the builder/developers whose names show up on the delinquent tax list, are also getting a call from their lender. You only have to read the legal notices every week to see a large number of mortgage foreclosures, many of them naming builder/developers that have been around for many years. And a point of fact, all real estate loans are mortgage loans, because the lender records a mortgage on all of them.
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Cogito_Ergo_Es (anonymous) says…
1915
rules for teachers
1. You will not marry during the term of your contract.
2. You are not to keep company with men.
3. You must be home between the hours of 8 pm and 6 am unless attending a school function.
4. You may not loiter downtown in ice cream stores.
5. You may not travel beyond the city limits unless you have the permission of the Chairman of the Board.
6. You may not ride in a carriage or automobile with any man unless he is your father or brother.
7. You may not smoke cigarettes.
8. You may not dress in bright colors.
9. You may under no circumstances dye your hair.
10. You must wear at least two petticoats.
11. Your dresses must not be any shorter than two inches above the ankle.
12. To keep the school room neat and clean, you must:
Sweep the floor at least once daily.
Scrub the floor at least once a week with hot soapy water.
Clean the blackboards at least once a day.
Start the fire at 7 am so the room will be warm by 8 am.
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) replies…
Good idea. Let's get back to it. and grades will go up and graduation rates as well. AFter all, Warren Buffet didnt go through Mary Loveland or Minders system.
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) replies…
Reminds me of what a lot of the conservatives fear about Muslims and sharia law. Yet in this instance they'd be more than willing to subjugate women.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
booyalab (anonymous) replies…
1915
rules for American education
1.Students in our country won't be the dumbest students in the world, on average.
2. Incompetent teachers can be fired without years of expensive litigation
3. Students won't be suspended for wearing clothing with stars and stripes.
4. Students won't be given detention for eating lunch containing "minimal nutrition" foods.
5. 90-100% of the school budget will be allotted to things that directly affect learning.
6. Students won't be forced to stay in school if parents need/want them to work instead, though students have the option of returning at anytime.
7. Neighborhoods full of affordable housing won't be razed to make way for fancy new high schools with low enrollment
8. Yeah, the teachers' job sucks, but things won't be like this forever. The school system will progress until the 60s, then decline until the next century when rock-bottom standards, stifling teachers unions, grade inflation and political brainwashing will turn the product of an 8th grade education from one who can define "zenith" and calculate compound interest to one who may spend 70% of their time sexting, but at least knows that slavery is wrong!
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) says…
There is a magic printing press....it's called raising taxes.
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Godot (anonymous) replies…
Ooohhh, real, live propaganda!!! Ordinary business people would be kicked off this forum for blatant violation of the terms of service. But government gets a pass.
beatnik (anonymous) says…
i wish i had a nickel for every good idea the members of the school board have come up with, oh, wait, that's why i don't have a nickel.
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
beatnik got it right, Minder says the "district would be the landlord". Does Minder have any idea who the "district" is or is he still in a cloud of arrogance believing that the "district" is a private corporation , not really knowing or recognizing who the stockholders are? We know Loveland doesnt know.
Is there anyone on the school board that wants to run the district as an educational opportunity?
Dr. Covington, Please come to Lawrence.
We cannot stand the "educational experiment" in this town much longer.
Godot (anonymous) replies…
oneeye, the functional term is not "stockholder," it is "stakeholder," and that is defined as people in power who will determine who will benefit, including themselves and their supporters, from taking money from the dwindling number of people who actually pay taxes.
edson443 (anonymous) says…
So if an employee/teacher lives in the "District" housing and they get laid off due to budget cuts, does that mean they are evicted too? That would really be kicking someone when they are down. Not only do they loose their job, they loose their home as well. Lawrence Public Schools should stay out of the landlord business.
artichokeheart (anonymous) replies…
The school district would still have to follow the KLTA.
Moderate (George Lippencott) says…
Think about this a bit. Our O&M budgets are limited by law but we can increase our capital budgets. So we provide in kind capital (housing) to the teachers using tax increases for capital expenditures. Puts more money to thye school system and bypasses the legislature on O&M cost limitations.
Wow!!!
Godot (anonymous) replies…
Deceit, the accepted currency of government.
Hoots (anonymous) says…
He's just trying to use your tax dollars to dig himself out of a hole. This has been done before but only in places like San Francisco where housing is crazy expensive or in places no one wants to teach. Can you say conflict of interest?
Hoots (anonymous) says…
He's just trying to use your tax dollars to dig himself out of a hole. This has been done before but only in places like San Francisco where housing is crazy expensive or in places no one wants to teach. Can you say conflict of interest?
Godot (anonymous) says…
This is just so absurd.
killmiltonfriedman (anonymous) says…
Give me a break. Vote out Minder at the next election. Housing values are down. This is frickin Kansas not San Francisco or Manhattan, New York. All the teachers I know have managed to buy a house. Who do you think will live in the "teacherage"? Teachers from the Phillipines or wherever else the can find cheap overseas labor to drive down wages and replace American teachers. Who do you think will benefit from this real estate deal and maintenance contract ? Minder and his cronies at the school board.
bearded_gnome (anonymous) says…
????!
what in the world is Rich thinking?????
schoolboard as landlord?!?
who oversees the teacher ghetto? who gets in there and who does not? if a teacher has sex with her student does she then lose her home? can the schoolboard then dictate teachers' behavior in their homes and inside the teacher ghetto?
this is *insane!*
killmiltonfriedman (anonymous) says…
No gnome if the teachers break the rules in the ghetto they get deported. Rather than invest in training teachers and paying them a professional, middle class wage it's being outsourced to third world countries.
http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/28...
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/...
TopJayhawk (anonymous) says…
So, I keep hearing about the poor underpaid teachers.
How much do they make? To start? When tenured? I get tired of the whining. No one makes as much as they think they are worth.
I agree that the biggest problems are with administration. Overpaid, underworked. And on top of that they all have assisstants, who all have assistant assistants and so on. The other thing that ought to happen is consolidate USD's whenever possible.
This is a big issue in Topeka where you have a ludicrous four USD's. Completley rediculous, but you gotta keep those administrators employed.
And to all the teachers out there. You have lost a lot of your credibility because you for so long hid behind the NEA which is a union pure and simple. But all we hear about is "IT is for the children." We all know that was BS, it was for the teachers. It is just that you guys were insulting and deceitfull. And now no one wants to hear it anymore.
Did_I_say_that (DIST) replies…
Here is a current listing for USD 497
Job:
2010-121-1
Teacher - Primary
Location: To Be Announced
Starting: 8/3/2010
Start Time:
End Time:
Hours per Day: 8.00
Days Per Year: 190
FTE:1.00
Closing Date:
Benefits: YES View Info
Type: CE - Continuing
Salary - Minimum: $34,430.00 Maximum: $58,830.00
Additional Qualifications:
Additional Info: Hiring for four primary positions
commuter (anonymous) says…
Yes teachers did not get a raise this year. Most people who work for the district took a pay cut and then had insurance increase on top.
I would take not getting a raise over taking a pay cut any day.
Please tell me where teachers were told they were going to make one amount and then the district paid them less. I am talking about gross salary not after taxes, insurance etc.
dragonfly0221 (anonymous) says…
What about ALL city employees not having to pay for city services like in surrounding counties?
Clevercowgirl (anonymous) says…
The teachers did not open this can of worms. The teachers that I know are well aware of the current economic situation. As we all know, many of us are making significantly less in this down economy. The teachers have their houses, pay their bills, and live life like the rest of us. Let's leave the teachers out of this. They didn't bring up the teacherage.....I'm sorry, I just can't call this an idea. I'm still waiting for Mr. Minder to say "April Fools".