To the editor:
For the last few weeks, there has been a debate about Muslims in New York attempting to build a new mosque just five blocks from Ground Zero where the twin towers used to stand. This group of Muslims have adamantly refused to build it elsewhere, will not budge; rather they strongly insist it is their “right” to build their mosque on this exact location, so close to where the hijacked airplanes flew into the towers.
Have you ever considered perhaps, Muslims are planning their own 9/11 memorial, but for a far different reason? After all, America is building a 9/11 memorial in honor of the thousands of Americans who died at Ground Zero. This New York “mosque,” could well become the “Muslim memorial,” to honor the “martyrs” of Islam, the very Muslims who hijacked the aircraft and flew them into the towers.
It could very well turn into the main attraction for Muslims around the world to make a pilgrimage to New York to pay their respects and homage to their 19 fellow Muslims who took over the four aircraft and killed 3,000 Americans in their “jihad,” carried out in the name of Allah and Islam.
Perhaps this is not a debate or argument about freedom of religion or if Muslims have rights, but rather about the possibilities of a second monument in the name of 9/11, a monument that celebrates the death of Americans, rather than honoring their memory. Mosque or memorial? It could possibly serve as both.
Comments
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Liberty_One (anonymous) says…
What a revolting LTE. The use of scare quotes in this LTE borders on the ridiculous, and is particularly disgusting to me when he uses them around the word "right."
Liberty_One (anonymous) says…
http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-...
whynaut (anonymous) replies…
^^
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) says…
1- It's two blocks from ground zero- not five.
2- It's a community center with a prayer room in it - not a mosque. Providence Medical Center in KCK has a chapel in it... is PMC a church or a hospital?
3- Muslim's died in the attack too. Innocent Muslim American's who were in the tower. Could it be a memorial to honor those innocents rather than a memorial to the lunatic fringe? Nahh... doesn't fit you rhetoric.
4- Since when did a world religion become synonymous with a fringe group of terrorists?
5 - "It could very well turn into the main attraction for Muslims around the world to make a pilgrimage to New York to pay their respects and homage..." - Great! I'm sure the U.S. and NYC would appreciate the increase in tourism dollars, especially in this economy.
50YearResident (anonymous) replies…
4- Since when did a world religion become synonymous with a fringe group of terrorists?
5 - "It could very well turn into the main attraction for Muslims around the world to make a pilgrimage to New York to pay their respects and homage..." - Great! I'm sure the U.S. and NYC would appreciate the increase in tourism dollars, especially in this economy.
The answer to 4
When the World Trade center was destroyed by Islamists.
Muslim Pilgrimage to New York is exactly what the motive for this is.
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) replies…
The WTC was destroyed by 19 fringe radicals. The entire 1.5 billion muslims in this world did not participate in that act.
wounded_soldier (anonymous) says…
Ignorant people are out in force today, huh, Tom. If a black person was responsible for the attacks, would your head be filled with such bigotry? How about a white or a Chrtistian. Wait, didn't a Christian Queen murder millions of Jews and Muslims in Spain? What about your friend Timmothy? Or David? weren't they of your same religion.
I am going to say it for the last time to you so read carefully: The Muslims who want to build the community center are not the same ones who did the 9/11 attacks. They are dead and they killed several Muslims, too. They didn't warn their fellow Muslims that they were coming, because those Muslims would have alerted authorities. Muslims don't want to take over America, they don't want to hurt their neighbors and they don't want to be held hostage for the crimes others have done in their name. All of them were horrified on that day, just like you and I were.
BorderRuffian (anonymous) replies…
Never-the-less, a shrine or mosque commemorating a heinous act of terrorism is a filthy and despicable act of 'rubbing salt into the wounds' of the American people. And the terrorists, by the act of proclaiming Islamic Jihad in such act, DID speak for the Islamic peoples.
To put an Islamic mosque there by Ground Zero, would be about the same as putting a mosque on top of the Temple ruins in Jerusalem. And act saying, "This is mine, we have conquered."
jafs (anonymous) replies…
I think there are many Muslims who don't agree that the small minority of radical Muslims involved in terrorist acts are "speaking for them".
If I commit an act of terrorism and claim it is a "Christian holy war", am I speaking for the "Christian people"?
voevoda (anonymous) replies…
There is indeed a mosque on top of the Temple ruins in Jerusalem. And most Jews are not upset about it. The Western Wall, nearby the site of the mosque, has become their shrine.
Of course, the Temple had already been destroyed, by the Romans. And then Christians took over the site.
Churches have been built over the sites used by other religions. Does that mean that Christians also are saying "This is mine, we have conquered"?
It's worth remembering that the World Trade Center wasn't a religious site, so it's not the equivalent of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem anyway.
BorderRuffian (anonymous) replies…
Voev - try asking an Israelite Jew!!
KSManimal (anonymous) says…
The only scary thing about this issue is that there are people who believe it is an issue - that does not bode well for the future of our nation, or the planet.
What part of "equal protection of the laws" don't people understand? Seems pretty clear to me. If that area is zoned for the type of facility this group wants to establish, then that settles it. And, no one else has to like it.
Following the logic of the bigots and fear mongers, we shouldn't allow any Catholic churches anywhere near elementary schools. After all, those aren't really churches but rather mocking monuments to pedophilia.
jonas_opines (anonymous) says…
God, can we just get November over with so this kind of wedge issue idiocy will lessen in magnitude for a few months until the next, bigger election cycle starts picking up?
jaywalker (anonymous) replies…
Amen.
beatrice (anonymous) replies…
Sadly, we appear to be in perpetual election cycle mode anymore.
grammaddy (anonymous) says…
/They own the land it sits on and can build whatever they want on their land.This shouldn't even be an issue.
jason2007 (anonymous) replies…
You're funny. You seriously cling to this antiquated thought that anyone in the country actually owns anything? I've known many people who "owned" land only to have WY county roll in and boot them for commerce (Legends), farmed landed for generations that they "owned" only to have KDOT roll in and abscond with it for a new highway or cloverleaf monstrosity.
We live under tyranny presented with in the guise of democracy. I learned long ago, the government lets you *think* you own property so that you'll be a good citizens and pay taxes. The moment the govt wants it, they'll take it.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Yes.
And it's generally conservatives who have managed to expand the idea of "eminent domain" to include taking private property for more lucrative commercial use.
See the Kelo case in New London, CT.
jason2007 (anonymous) replies…
I don't care who's doing it -- conservative/liberals -- there's not much difference outside of how it's packaged. The entire govt is corrupt, tyrannical, and needs to be neutered.
rockchalk1977 (anonymous) replies…
grammaddy says "They own the land it sits on and can build whatever they want on their land". Just like Lowes in Lawrence, KS right?
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Well, there are zoning regulations as well.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) says…
I am so ashamed of America right now.
9-11 Al Quada was victorious in the worst way possible.
Instead of uniting us, they have divided us.
Instead of responding by touting American liberties and Freedom as the strongest and best example in the world, America has responded by fraying and tearing the Constitution.
Instead of responding by building a stronger America, we have become weak and bigoted and turned our backs on what makes us the best.
And who is to blame? It is not really Al Quada, they are not that strong, we can and should wipe them off the face of the earth. The real enemy is within, and people like Tom Shewmon, Curtiss Bennett and Rush Limbaugh are leading the charge to destroy America.
They are the traitors today.
50YearResident (anonymous) replies…
Several more names could be added to your list when you take into consideration that it is quite OK to lie to benefit Islam.
wounded_soldier (anonymous) replies…
IT is NOT ok to lie!! No lie, except telling your wife that she is beautiful, or lying to stop a crime or a war is acceptable in Islam. The rest are forbidden. Islam is an Abrahamic religion and being so, they follow the 10 commandments.
mr_right_wing (anonymous) replies…
"I am so ashamed of America right now."
As opposed to when?
Nothing new here.
We don't have armed guards at our boarders (keeping people in) you know.....
jafs (anonymous) replies…
So when people disagree with what's being done here, they should just leave?
Then all those opposed to the current administration should just leave in a mass exodus, instead of participating in the political process?
mr_right_wing (anonymous) replies…
I wouldn't shed a tear if idistainamerica decided to leave; he'd probably be better off in a muslim, socialist or communist country.
You cut cancer out, you destroy it; you don't just hope it changes its mind and rejoins the rest of the helpful cells in your body.
I have no respect for Obama; yet this is still the greatest country on this planet, and I think I've been very fair...look over my comment history; the very few good decisions Obama's made I've pointed out myself. That's right.. I gave him some credit. I love this country, I just don't respect the man that occupies the Oval Office right now.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Not exactly responsive.
You think that a certain poster is cancerous. Others think that right-wing extremists are cancerous. Others think,...
The point is that the "love it or leave it" crowd seems to be blind to the fact that many currently don't love what's going on and aren't leaving, and seem not to apply that logic to them.
BornAgainAmerican (anonymous) says…
I have to support this LTE. If the goal, as stated by the Imam, is to bridge the divide between our Muslim population and other religions/citizens, then why does he remain unwilling to consider another location? Tolerance and accomodation works both ways. There are a lot of concerns this Imam has not and probably will not address. It is my understanding that Muslim citizens do not reside anywhere near the planned Mosque/Community Center. Is it any wonder the majority of the US population is skeptical this Imam's true purpose?
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) replies…
You're understanding is wrong. There are two mosques within 25 blocks of ground zero and they literally are turning away people due to overcrowding.
"Muslims in Manhattan say they need a place to pray"
http://www.reuters.com/article/idustr...
"Both mosques — essentially one-room operations — routinely turn people away for lack of space." "When Masjid al-Farah moved into the neighborhood, the local Muslim community was tiny, said Sheikha Fariha. But it has expanded exponentially, especially with Muslims who work in the area..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/nyr...
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) replies…
*Your
KRichards (anonymous) says…
Should we also make sure no churches are built within blocks of the OKC Federal Building bombing site. Two caucasion, christians bombed that building. What a shame it would be if a church was built anywhere close to honor those two?
jaywalker (anonymous) replies…
A strawman argument that has already been argued, K. The difference between 9/11 and OKC is the former was done in the name of a religion, the latter was not.
rbwaa (anonymous) replies…
does anyone remember that the date of the bombing was specifically chosen by Timothy McVeigh in retaliation for the deaths of the radical christian cult leader David Koresh and his followers? isn't that in the name of a religion?
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) replies…
Stretching it... McVeigh wasn't doing it for religious reasons but anti government reasons. McVeigh wasn't a Koresh follower... just happened to hate the fbi, dea, atf, etc
ckennedy (christy kennedy) says…
I would say the content of this letter is unbelievable but we've heard way too much from the fear-hate crowd lately to be surprised by this.
I'm not sure what information Mr. Bennett is going but it sounds very Beck, Limbaugh, and Paliinesque, so that would be no actual information, just whatever fits on a bumper sticker or in a misspelled twitter blurt.
Perhaps he and others who've judged those they don't know a thing about could glean just a bit of insight about Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf if they could just sit still and listen for a few minutes to the man himself:
http://www.ted.com/talks/imam_feisal_...
tuschkahouma (anonymous) says…
tom repeat the same garbage over and over and you actualy believe it.. the gop plan right?
repeat the same garbage for 30 tears over and over play the religous right for their
votes and dump them at the altar...oh that's why there's a tea party.... attacking a soldier
because they don't buy into your party sanctioned love it or leave it fascism?....
nice... adios I'm going to work.. have fun with your life totally on the net....
jaywalker (anonymous) says…
While I don't believe what Mr. Bennett proposes as a possibility with this LTE is the actual case, a few people here should take into consideration that all he is doing is lending a 'what if?' to the situation. I don't see him advocating an 'anti' position here, just throwing out a hypothetical.
Taking that for what it is then, would those that believe the muslim communitiy center should be allowed to be built feel any differently if his hypothetical were somehow proven true?
jafs (anonymous) replies…
That's a very interesting question.
What if they are in fact building it as some sort of celebration of the attack (I don't think that's they case)?
Liberty One said "Who cares?" - it's not a valid reason to deny them the right to build it there.
Of course, I would feel differently about it than I do now, thinking that it's a moderate plan which attempts to provide a community center open to those of all faiths.
But would that justify stopping them from building? On what grounds?
jaywalker (anonymous) replies…
Made me stop and think as well, jafs. I'm of the mind that it should be allowed to be built, but my initial reaction to the hypothetical was the opposite. On wondering what grounds could be considered for disallowing the building in that scenario I think it would be similar to not allowing a murderer to make money from writing a book based on his actions, something like that.
Hydra (Roger Ford) says…
The imam has spoken and no infidel dogs can tell him otherwise.
For that we searched Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf’s own words – in the Arabic and
not what he says in English to the western media. It should shock every
American to find out that Faisal Abdul Rauf stated to the popular Islamic
media Hadiyul-Islam (www.hadielislam.com) on May 26th, 2010 in an article by
Sa’da Abdul Maksoud. In it he states that an Islamic state can be
established regardless of the government being a kingdom or democracy. In
another article titled “I do not believe in religious dialogue” should alarm
the ardent skeptic on the mindset of the Islamic visionary who advocates
establishing Islamic lobbies throughout the West.
He also admitted that “[In the West] they have separation of church and
state, this of course does not exist in any Muslim country. About 99% refuse
to separate religion from state and many call for establishing an Islamic
Caliphate.”
And regarding religious dialogue Abdul-Rauf stated “this phrase is
inaccurate. Religious dialogue as customary understood is a set of events
with discussions in large hotels that result in nothing. Religions do not
dialogue and dialogue is not present in the attitudes of the followers
regardless of being Muslim or Christian. The image of Muslims in the West is
complex which needs to be remedied.” And when his view regarding an
Islamic state he responded that “throughout my discussions with contemporary
Muslim theologians that an Islamic state can be established in more then
just in a single form or mold. It can be established through a kingdom or a
democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of
Shariah that are required to govern. It is known that there are sets of
standards that are accepted by [Muslim] scholars to organize the
relationships between government and the governed.” When questioned on this,
that “the current governments are unjust and do not follow Islamic laws”
Abdul Rauf commented “new laws were permitted after the death of Muhammad,
so long of course that these laws do not contradict the Quran or the Deeds
of Muhammad…so they create institutions that assure no conflicts with
Shariah.”
http://formermuslimsunited.americanco...
tubs_of_love (anonymous) says…
Memorial's are always a bad idea, they cost a lot to build and they have nothing to offer the economy, they just sit there looking all purdy. Americans that actually care about those that died do not need a building to remember, how about, just remember.
Hydra (Roger Ford) says…
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/3...
el gamal is a real charmer as well.
His most recent arrest was in 2005 for assault on a man he met while working as a waiter at Serafina Restaurant, who sublet an apartment from his brother. He reportedly punched the man, breaking his nose and cheekbone and spit on him.
El-Gamal first said he didn’t hit the man, but arrest documents obtained by CBS 2 showed he later conceded “his face could have run into my hand.”
Records showed El-Gamal also had trouble coming up with the $15,000 settlement reached in 2008, and had to pay interest . El-Gamal also has a number of other arrests on his record:
-In 1990, he was arrested in Nassau County and pled guilty to disorderly conduct.
-In 1992, he pled guilty in Nassau to DWI and paid a $350 fine.
-In 1993, he pled guilty in Nassau to attempted petit larceny and paid a $100 fine.
-In 1994, arrested for disorderly conduct in Manhattan.
-In 1998, there was another Manhattan disorderly conduct arrest.
-In 1999, yet another Manhattan disorderly conduct arrest.
A potential problem for the mosque developer is a deposition he gave in the assault case in October 2007. When asked if he was ever convicted or pled guilty to a crime, El-Gamal replied “no.”
Hydra (Roger Ford) says…
ckennedy (christy kennedy)
Perhaps he and others who've judged those they don't know a thing about could glean just a bit of insight about Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf if they could just sit still and listen for a few minutes to the man himself:
Hey Christy you were a prosecuter. What's your opinion of this guys character?
Birds of a feather?
independant1 (anonymous) says…
1. Moderate Muslim sensibility should prevail. It is obvious some see the proximity of the planned muslim community center to ground zero as muslim disrespect. A big middle finger or celebration to victory over the great satan.
2. Where is the voice of the truely moderate muslim? Yes we can see why one can think the proximity issue is distastefull/volatile.
3. We will seek alternative locations for our community center, if alternate location can be found without substantial extra cost we will go that route for our community center plan.
It is curious, I've not heard yet a moderate muslim voice. These are points of view I would expect to hear from a moderate muslim.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
I agree that it seems odd they aren't considering another site.
However, if it's supposed to be a community center, it would make sense to build it in the community it's trying to serve.
wounded_soldier (anonymous) replies…
Independent, Moderate muslims are speaking clearly to you, but you are not listening. Moderate Muslims are all around you no matter where you live. look around and you will see them cowered because of the bigotry, but they speak out clearly and with truth. There is no hierarchy in Islam or in moderate Islam and only Iran calls America the great satan. Moderate Muslims who themselves are American, utter no statement like that. Listen and stop talking.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Why do you think they refuse to consider another site, in the spirit of reconciliation?
independant1 (anonymous) replies…
I've not heard a peep from a moderate muslim on this issue. The Imam Rauf has expressed his opinion and is identified as moderate. Due to those expressed opinion(s) I do not consider him moderate.
wounded_soldier (anonymous) replies…
Yes. you have and repeatedly. What do you want to hear? Do you want moderates to say that it should be built elsewhere? They won't because it is up to the builders where and when to build it. What moderates want is the fear mongering to stop. They are not out to hurt you, but to just enjoy their life as you do. We have to stop those who are ignorant and spew nothing but hate. Muslims don't want to kill infidel, they have enough to do raising their children, running their businesses and living their own lives. Besides the Quran says nothing about killing any one it is a sin to kill in every religion except in self defense.
One other thing. Until 1918, the whole Muslim world was ruled by a Caliphate. It was called the Ottoman Empire and it lasted over 850 years. Some Caliphs were brutal and others like Suliman were generous and progressive. The huge artistic buildings including the Taj Mahal were built during this time. This Caliphate hurt no one in the West, but ceded the land to the Palestinians who lost it in the Balfour Praclimation in 1920. When the Jews started moving to Palestine, the problems in the Middle East started. They wanted the land and the Palestinians didn't want to give up what they had for centuries.
independant1 (anonymous) replies…
Nope still haven't heard moderate muslim voice, perhaps a.there is none or b. moderate muslims are not speaking out
independant1 (anonymous) replies…
De Telegraaf, the Netherlands' largest newspaper, led its front page on Friday with a story on the speech by Feiz Muhammad.
The Sydney-born Muhammad has gained notoriety for, among other things, calling on young children to be radicalized and blaming rape victims for their own attacks.
The paper posted an English-language audio clip in which he refers to Wilders as "this Satan, this devil, this politician in Holland" and explains that anyone who talks about Islam like Wilders does should be executed by beheading.
Hydra (Roger Ford) says…
See more news releases in: Accounting News & Issues, Religion, Domestic Policy
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releas...
IPT Investigation Uncovers Problems in Mosque Leader's IRS Status
washington, Sept. 2 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The Investigative Project on Terrorism reports that Ground Zero Mosque leader Feisal Abdul Rauf filed for "church" status to the IRS for his newly formed Islamic group in 1998 and listed an apartment building where he claimed in the federal application that 400-500 people worshiped there.
However, a review of the building and real estate records indicates there is nowhere in the building to house that many congregants. ASMA lists its office address as 201 W. 85th St., Apt. 10E on the federal tax form, while it cites only the building address as its location for prayer services.
In the article, IPT also shows:
•Rauf's American Society for Muslims Advancement listed its office as the apartment of Rauf's wife, Daisy Khan.
•Khan was listed as an ASMA director living at 201 W. 85th St., Apt. 10E, in the group's 1997 incorporation papers filed with the state of New York. A year later, the group's IRS filing does not list Khan as a director but instead gives her home address as ASMA's address.
•ASMA told the IRS in 1998 that it planned to build a prayer center that would hold up to 1,000 worshipers at a time. That was never built.
•Although ASMA has tax-exempt church status, its website shows it has no permanent prayer site and the group no longer touts religious services as part of its mission.
These findings, all based on public records filed by Rauf, Khan and ASMA, mean the group is not a church, says Bruce Hopkins, a senior partner at the law firm Polsinelli Shughart. Hopkins has written several books on non-profit tax law, including The Law of Tax-Exempt Organizations.
You can find the entire article here: http://www.investigativeproject.org/2...
source Investigative Project on Terrorism (IPT)
50YearResident (anonymous) says…
I see that the Defenders of Islam are posting here.
Moderate Muslims are ruled by fear from ther own religion to not speak out against Islam. The only posts by Muslims will be in defense of Islam or severe penalties will occur.
Hydra (Roger Ford) replies…
It's amazing the mosque defenders shut up when the have to argue against facts that don't support their opinion.
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) replies…
Facts like it's not a mosque? That it's not on ground zero? That an entire religion didn't commit terror acts on 9/11 but a radical fringe group was responsible? The fact that two mosques in the local area are overcrowded and the prayer room will ease that burden? The fact that muslims live and work in Manhattan too? The fact that innocent muslims died in the WTC on 9/11 as well? Those facts?
Ya the mosque denouncers shut up when they have to argue against those facts too.
BornAgainAmerican (anonymous) replies…
Vertigo, if it's truly not a Mosque and is simply a community center, why not forego the prayer room?
Liberty_One (anonymous) replies…
"why not forgo the prayer room?"
Why does it matter to you?
BornAgainAmerican (anonymous) replies…
...because part of Vertigo's argument for their right to build this structure lies in his assertion that it's not a mosque. If it's not a mosque and is truly a community center, then why have a prayer room?
I am not contesting their "legal" right to build whatever they want at this location. But there are too many concerns surrounding the building of this mosque/community center at this particular location and those concerns are not being addressed by this Imam. If there is truly no reason to be concerned why does he choose to remain silent? And why does he refuse to consider other locations? It's the United States of America. Are you suggesting that we have no right to ask these questions?
It is undisputed that they have the legal right... and the Constition protects their right to practice their religion. But if they are truly "bridging the divisive gap" between the Mulims and others, why are they not willing to answer these questions and others? It has made 70% of the U.S. citizenry very suspicious of his motives.
Liberty_One (anonymous) replies…
Why have a prayer room? Because it's a Muslim community center, and Muslims pray five times a day. I have a membership at a Jewish community center (I'm not Jewish, it's just the nearest gym) and they have religious stuff that goes on there too. There's flyers promoting the support of Israel, Jewish cooking classes, day-care and preschool with Jewish religious teaching etc. That doesn't make it a synagogue any more than a prayer room makes this community center a mosque.
As far as there being "too many concerns," I haven't heard one single legitimate concern. If you have any concerns that aren't pure speculation, then let's hear them.
BornAgainAmerican (anonymous) replies…
You may live your life differently than I do Liberty, but life decisions are often made on concerns and yes, even speculation. You may or may not choose to purchase health insurance based upon your speculation and concern that you may experience major illness. I may not purchase property in a certain neighborhood due to safety concerns for my family and financial speculation that the value may go down. I know that you fancy yourself somewhat of an economist based on your previous posts. I am sure you make life decisions based on your own speculation about what may happen and concern for your own well being. You attempt to minimize your risk by identifying the known variables to keep unforeseen surprises at a minimum. Is this not what many of us are attempting to do here?
My concern with this particular situation is that there are too many questions going unanswered. Tolerance and trust works both ways. What are they hiding? Are they attempting to establish a shrine to the death and destruction caused by the terrorists in the name of Islam? This Imam seems not to understand that he represents the religion with which these terrorists justified their attack in 2001. His silence creates uneasiness among many of us.
In short, I do not want to witness this Imam and his followers dancing on the graves of American citizens I do not want their memories trampled and desecrated in what was once their very own homeland by those who may want to celebrate their murder. I am willing to ask the hard questions and remain vigilant because as an American citizen, I owe it to the departed and their families. It's a matter of protecting the honor and dignity of our fellow Americans.
I have answered your question. Now I challenge you to tell me why the preservation of the honor and integrity of fellow citizens is not something we should have concerns about. And why should we not speculate that the motivation of this Imam may not be bridge building. To date he has done very little to dispel our concerns and speculation.
Liberty_One (anonymous) replies…
Your speculation about this community center's "real" purpose is based entirely upon intolerance and xenophobia hiding behind a facade of "legitimate concern." Your concerns are as plausible as "They're going to kidnap Batman!" Your sinister conclusions are ludicrous and make no sense whatsoever: "Gee, this guy isn't saying much, he must have something to hide!"
"This Imam seems not to understand that he represents the religion with which these terrorists justified their attack in 2001."
You don't seem to understand that 19 people don't represent 1.6 billion Muslims.
Face it, the only reason you have any "concerns" over this building compared to any other building is because the owners are Muslim. You have absolutely NO other facts to support your wild speculation. None. It is because you don't like Muslims, plain and simple.
BornAgainAmerican (anonymous) replies…
Your only response is an irrational, name-calling rant? I'm disappointed I thought you were better than that. Definitely no pretense of discussion here.
Liberty_One (anonymous) replies…
So I guess you ignored the whole part where I point out how you have nothing other than that the people building this Muslim to support your position? I guess you ignored the whole part where I point out how irrational your arguments are? How implausible your "concerns" are?
Face it, you have no facts to support your irrational fears. It's entirely based upon speculation and xenophobia.
And I never called you any names, but don't let facts get in the way of your victim mentality.
BornAgainAmerican (anonymous) replies…
Who is being ridiculous here?
"Your speculation about this community center's "real" purpose is based entirely upon intolerance and xenophobia hiding behind a facade of "legitimate concern." Your concerns are as plausible as "They're going to kidnap Batman!" Your sinister conclusions are ludicrous and make no sense whatsoever: "Gee, this guy isn't saying much, he must have something to hide!"
Seems to me from this very first paragraph to the last word in the post, the name calling never ceases. There are all kinds of names in that paragraph...of course you edited it to comply to the forum TOS.
I think you know very well what my position is and you know that it is anything but unreasonable. 3,000 dead Americans and their families support my position and I will not compromise it based on your irrational name-calling rant. Obviously you have nothing more to offer so it is my intention to end this conversation.
Liberty_One (anonymous) replies…
You are desecrating the memories of those who died on 9/11 by using them as an excuse for your intolerant attitude towards Muslims. 19 terrorists do not represent 1.6 billion people. The other 1.6 billion Muslims had as much to do with 9/11 as did the Muppet Babies. Your hateful and suspicious attitude towards completely innocent and law-abiding Americans is revolting to me because it is based on an irrational fear and mistrust of 1.6 billion people because they are different from you.
I think this article was written about you:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-...
"it is my intention to end this conversation. "
The "conversation" was over the second you closed your mind to the possibility that not all Muslims are evil, violent, terrorist sympathizers.
"Seems to me from this very first paragraph to the last word in the post, the name calling never ceases."
Nope, no name-calling whatsoever. But I'll call you one now: sad.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Actually, interestingly enough, the only person who has posted on here who lost family in the attack supported the building of this community center.
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) replies…
Providence Medical Center in KCK has a chapel in it. Is PMC a hospital or a church?
BornAgainAmerican (anonymous) replies…
So you tell me Vertgo...The primary purpose of PMC is to treat the ill or injured. They offer the chapel for those who may feel the need to be comforted in their time of struggle, but that is not the primary purpose. A chapel would not exist at this location if there was not a hospital.
It seems that the primary purpose of the chapel may be to provide needed prayer space. I say 'may' because I am not sure that it will not be a shrine to 9/11. But given the stated purpose, the community center may be an after thought. And what better way to practice D'wa? The community center is certainly not the primary reason for building this mosque/community center and indeed, a stand alone community center will not be built...will it?
The analogy you offer is not a good one. Each has it's own primary reason for being there and they are quite different. Yes?
Liberty_One (anonymous) replies…
"The community center is certainly not the primary reason for building this mosque/community center"
It's the only reason for the building. They have a basketball court, a swimming pool, daycare services, fitness center, restaurant etc.
BornAgainAmerican (anonymous) replies…
Sheeesh!...oh well, at least you didn't resort to name-calling this time.
Hydra (Roger Ford) replies…
Who says it's not a mosque? el gamel? The maqn has no concept of truth. 2 blocks from ground zero? I bet they would move if they could get closer. RAdical fringe group? Al Quaida has roughly 80 killion followers.
Muslioms killed 19 versus 2800, acceptable collateral damage.
wounded_soldier (anonymous) replies…
Who is going to meet out the punishment? You? The Imam? No. We speak out in defense of ourselves and of our religion from people who print half truths and lies. Islam does NOT push for the destruction of anyone. Like Jesus said; "Leave them to God".
The Quran says: "There is no compulsion in religion". meaning that anyone can follow Islam as they see fit.
jonas_opines (anonymous) replies…
That's funny, I don't see a single defense of Islam itself in this entire thread. I see a few defenders of our laws, equality, and rights. It would help if you'd not confuse the two.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Some, including myself, are defending the whole Muslim religion as not being identical to the radical fringe terrorists.
wounded_soldier (anonymous) replies…
No they don't. That is totally untrue.
Jimo (anonymous) says…
But hey, at least we don't have to talk about how the GOP has no plan to solve any of our problems! Now on to the midget wrestling.
Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!
whynaut (anonymous) replies…
Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!
BorderRuffian (anonymous) says…
These people who want to build this abominable mosque should be seen as what they are - nothing less than the Fred Phelpses of the Muslim world.
beatrice (anonymous) says…
Many Americans really hate Muslims because of the actions of a few radicals claiming to be Muslims. We get it, but freedom of religion is still part of the Constitution.
Next!
kenos (anonymous) says…
Here's a hypothetical (not really) for you: Fox News owner, Alwaleed bin Talal, funds the Mosque At Ground Zero through his charity: The Kingdom Foundation. Fox News then hypes the proposal to engage the American people and further divide us along religious lines. Meanwhile, Israel, which had as much to do with 9/11 as any Muslim (do your research), makes further preparation to bomb Iran. Lord Rothschild, who already owns Israel and most of the United States, gets happy because he can rape another country and further indebt the world through usery (the Arab nations are bad about usery). Idiot Americans (who have not done their research) write LTE's and debate the issue ad nauseum. Meanwhile, LJW obediantly gives us nothing but CFR approved coverage so most of us remain ignorant.
wounded_soldier (anonymous) replies…
Sorry to counterdict you but Rupert Murdoch owns Fox News lock, stock and barrel and if Alwaleed owned it, would it blast Muslims all the time, seeing that he is Muslim?
whynaut (anonymous) replies…
contradict
thusspokezarathustra (anonymous) replies…
Sorry Wounded but Al-Waleed owns 7% of Fox News Corp. through his Kingdom Holding Company which means that he is the second largest owner and that Rupert Murdoch doesn't own Fox News lock, stock and barrel. I doubt he cares how Fox News portrays muslims as long as Fox stays profitable.
voevoda (anonymous) replies…
Kenos, your statement about an "international Jewish conspiracy" has no basis in fact. Neither does Mr. Bennett's baseless speculation about the motives of American Muslims. It is irresponsible for both of you to promote fear and hatred against your fellow-Americans by disseminating misinformation.
mr_right_wing (anonymous) says…
How ignorant are you people? Islam had nothing to do with 9/11. George W. flew all four of those planes and jumped out at the last second....I know...the man is incredible.
Then he causes Katrina; personally breaks the levee himself.
Causes the horrible earthquake in Haiti, and now he's trying to turn Clinton to the dark side (Bush-Clinton Haiti Relief Fund.)
Swims out to the Deepwater Horizon and dives to depths no ordinary human can to disable the blowout protector of the oil rig.....
He does all this and STILL has time to come put algae in our drinking water!
(While helping Iran with nuclear weapons.)
I don't know what Obama is gonna do....this is the most incredible criminal mind this planet has ever seen. I hate to say it, but I don't think he can be stopped.
Where will George W strike next? Batman, Superman....where are you?!?
wounded_soldier (anonymous) says…
You are right and wrong Mr. Right Wing. Muslims had nothing to do with 9/11, terrorists did in its name. GW had nothing to do with it either as he cowed in a classroom in Florida.
whats_going_on (anonymous) says…
get.over.it.
voevoda (anonymous) says…
Mr. Bennett starts from false premises. Consequently all his speculation must be dismissed as baseless.
The mosque already exists at that site. It has been there for decades. Other mosques are located in the neighborhood, even closer to Ground Zero. None of these mosques have attracted gloating Islamists.
The original name proposed for the community center, "Cordoba Center," does not signify a Muslim victory over Christians. It signifies a place and era in medieval Spain when Muslims, Jews, and Christians lived together in peace. (See Gerald Shenk, "What Went Right: Two Best Cases of Islam in Europe--Cordoba, Spain and Sarajevo, Bosnia.") For Muslims and Jews, the "Cordoba" reference is common knowledge.
Mr. Bennett should stop listening to the right-wing propaganda machine, and get his information instead for reputable sources.
rtpayton (anonymous) says…
The Globe newspaper at the grocery store states Obama is a Muslim with pictures of him.
monheim (anonymous) says…
This letter is nothing but bald assertions and shoddy slippery slope arguments. You are free to keep an eye on this facility and organization and raise the alarm when you have a good reason to believe there actually ARE jihadists traveling here to pay homage to the terrorists, or if you have a good reason to believe the funding for this is coming from questionable sources. Until then, at least own up to the fact and admit that you just "don't like it".
Danimal (anonymous) says…
Wait until they build it, then crash planes into it. Islamic law is pretty Hammurabian so they should understand.
On a serious note, people forget that the building that the mosque will replace was only condemned because large pieces of one of the aircraft that hit the World Trade Center came crashing through its roof and top two stories on 9/11/01. It's important to remember how widespread the destruction in lower Manhattan was that day, and that this space wouldn't even be available for new construction had it not been for 9/11. Keeping that in mind, it's extremely inconsiderate and in the worst taste to build a mosque there. It's absolutely within their rights to build it, but it's also within others rights to voice their disapproval.
mbulicz (anonymous) says…
A) This is a piece of purely speculative and disgustingly racist drivel.
B) We already have Christian churches that celebrate the [ongoing] deaths of thousands, including gays, soldiers, and even the 14 year old murdered girl in Great Bend. If yuo're really concerned with intolerant religion, how about you go to Topeka and have a chat with Fred?
distant_voice (anonymous) says…
Hey, I'm not a guy without exposure to the Islamic religion, and to Islamic culture. I was in Saudi Arabia and the Emirates before and during Desert Shield, as a consultant, not in the military, and I tried to understand. What I came away with was an understanding that most Muslims in the Middle East disdain anything or anyone outside their religious culture. In America, Muslims think it racist that their women are not allowed to wear burkas in many places. In Saudia Arabia, all women were subject to Islamic Law and forced to cover their heads. Non-believers were dirt in their eyes, and Westerners the worst. I read the Qur'an trying to understand their faith and culture and found a book that made the Old Testament look gentle by comparison. Muslims who migrate to the West begin to moderate, but they are still strongly influenced by their old culture of hatred for anything or anyone non-Muslim, as Christians were 500 years ago, and occasionally still are.
I was also working directly across the river from the WTC on 9/11, and stood on the shores of the Hudson watching the horror that most Midwesterners will never understand. If Muslims around the world want to be accepted, then let them speak out against the 9/11 tragedy other than to say "don't blame us". They have made no efforts and still make no efforts to moderate radicalism in their religion. Regardless where the heart is of those building the mosque, it will eventually fall under the control of the meaner elements of their religion and become a shrine to martyr those who hate and murder in the name of Allah.
Liberty_One (anonymous) replies…
So they're all guilty until proven innocent in your eyes. Got it.
50YearResident (anonymous) replies…
Good Post, but falling on deaf ears on this forum.
beatrice (anonymous) replies…
Since you claim the Middle East disdains people who aren't just like them, your response is to disdain people who aren't just like us? Because the Middle East is so terrible, your solution is that you want us to be just like them and disdain people not just like us? Got it.
BornAgainAmerican (anonymous) replies…
Excellent post distant_voice. Of course the forum liberals (the majority) will ignore your experience and tell you you imagined it all even though many of them have never been outside the state of Kansas.
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) replies…
Odd... I too have been to the Middle East pretty extensively and found the exact opposite. Like you I've been to the Emirates, as well as Qatar, Bahrain, Iraq, A-stan, and Kuwait.
I found most of the people in those places accepting and inviting. I was never treated with disdain or felt like I was a second class citizen in their eyes.
I guess maybe you get back what you send out?
tange (anonymous) says…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23NHjs...
whynaut (anonymous) says…
To the editor:
Number of Comments Generated is not a good measure for the quality of a piece you decide to publish. A letter to the editor is what it is: a letter, an opinion. But by publishing it in the context of your reputation as a news source, you're stamping it as journalism. And this bit is pretty yellow.
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) says…
On a lighter note I found this humerous. I'm sure those that hate Muslims will truly get a kick out of it.
http://www.eatliver.com/img/2010/5822...
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) replies…
humorous*
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
I would like to see the Masonic Temple turned into a mosque in Lawrence. It's got some neat backdrops inside and with no windows it would be perfect. And there are churches all around it.
crazyks (anonymous) says…
So, for all you fear-mongers out there...what is your excuse for the protests and violence concerning the building of a new mosque in Murfreesboro, Tenn.?
It is not anywhere near the World Trade Center.
It is not anywhere near the Pentagon.
It is not anywhere near a field in Pennsylvania.
It had nothing to do with 9/11 at all.
So why all the protests?
vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) says…
Because ALL muslims are terrorists until they can prove otherwise... don't you get that?
Sheesh!
That was sarcasm, btw, in case your sarcasm meter is inop.
crazyks (anonymous) says…
Yeah, I recognize the sarcasm...lol
Too bad the die hards on here don't recognize morality and fundamental rights...