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City commissioners talking trash ideas
City commissioners will begin discussing whether residents should be charged depending on the amount of trash they produce. The possible change also brings into question whether a private company should be used. Enlarge video
Changes in how people are charged for their trash service, and the idea of turning the city-operated enterprise over to a private company are set for discussion at Lawrence City Hall.
City Commissioner Rob Chestnut at Tuesday’s meeting will ask his fellow commissioners to open up a review of new options for the city’s trash collection service.
“I kind of feel like we’re at a crossroads with our solid waste service right now,” Chestnut said. “This seems like a good time to study some issues.”
At the top of the list is the idea of implementing a “pay-as-you-throw” system that would charge people who frequently set out large amounts of trash more than people who set out small amounts of trash.
Such systems are becoming more common in cities, and often involve residents being assigned a certain size of cart to contain their trash. If they can’t fit all their trash in the cart, they can pay to set out additional bags. Or if they frequently exceed their cart’s capacity, they can pay extra for a larger cart.
The city’s Sustainability Advisory Board has recommended the city go to a volume-based trash system to encourage more recycling by residents. The idea has some support on the City Commission.
“I think it is a good idea,” City Commissioner Mike Dever said. “And if you look at how most households use our trash service, I don’t think it would be a big change for a lot of households.”
Chestnut said he’s still undecided about the idea, but is becoming more open to it as he hears from more residents.
“I hear quite a few comments from residents who say they are trying everything they can to increase their recycling, and then their neighbors aren’t doing anything but they still get charged the same rate for trash pickup,” Chestnut said.
But if the city were to go to a volume-based trash service, it could require new investments in trucks and technology. Chestnut said that likely would be a good time to consider whether the city should continue operating the service or allowing a private company to take over the operations.
Another factor is that Kansas City-based Deffenbaugh Industries — the largest solid waste company in the region — is more aggressively eyeing Lawrence. The company in March began offering curbside recycling service to households for $4.95 per month.
So far, that service has attracted about 3,600 households and has collected about 430 tons of recyclable materials.
“Lawrence has been great,” said Tom Coffman, a vice president for Deffenbaugh. “From the very first day the participation and volumes have exceeded our most enthusiastic expectations.”
Coffman also confirmed the company has started to offer recycling services for commercial customers, and would like to expand that business.
Dever said Deffenbaugh’s activity may cause the city to look at privatization, but he said he had some serious questions.
“My biggest fear is we lose control over the quality of the service and the cost of the service,” Dever said. “And once we stop providing the service, it will be almost impossible for us to jump back into it. That is a big hesitancy.”
Chestnut said he’s also unsure of what the right answer is on privatization.
“These are sensitive issues,” Chestnut said. “Anytime you mention privatization, you are talking about people’s livelihood. I recognize that. But I want to sort through all the details and then get a lot of public comment.”
Commissioners — who aren’t expected to make any final decisions Tuesday — meet at 6:30 p.m. at City Hall.
Comments
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onceinawhile (anonymous) says…
How would this affect apartment complexes?
Informed (anonymous) replies…
This proposal is for residential trash service. Apartment complexes already pay on a different scale.
dulcinea47 (anonymous) replies…
Do you have any more information about how that works? Last time I checked, apartments are residences....
imastinker (anonymous) replies…
The complex pays for dumpster service. It's not even the same truck that picks them up.
hawkfan24 (anonymous) replies…
It depends on the complex, yes they pay a different fee, and that depends on how many days they get picked up. It also depends on the complex because most of the apartments do get picked up by the same truck that does the residential area.
none2 (anonymous) says…
"At the top of the list is the idea of implementing a “pay-as-you-throw” system that would charge people who frequently set out large amounts of trash more than people who set out small amounts of trash."
I think they forgot to mention a third category -- those that occasionally set out a large amount. If you do a lot of recycling, most of the time you won't have much. However, there are times when you may have a larger load. I hope they don't penalize those that fall into that infrequent large loads category.
srj (anonymous) says…
Always reading about changes/problems with the trash pick-ups, but it it really a problem? KU students trash makes things harder to contract out, so maybe we pay more then others, but we pay higher taxes for everything, so why is this a big deal?
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Well, we pay for water and sewer (and electricity and gas) based on usage, why not trash?
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
So just go ahead and get rid of the City Sanitation Dept and let Defenbaugh get on with the business in Lawrence as the provider.
OR what would Boulder do?
The City Commission always mucking with something that really isn't broken.
Stain (anonymous) replies…
When they do that, follow the money. You can be sure somebody is scheming for a way to make a profit.
The same thing is going on with the head of the school board deciding that the school system should be in the real estate business, and give some teachers subsidized housing.
How do people get away with this stuff in this town? Where are the watchdogs?
tange (anonymous) says…
Hmm... trash disparity. Hu nu?
DVECC (Matthew Del Vecchio) says…
The trash service here is awesome. I'm willing to bet a majority of Lawrence is completely satisfied with the value provided for the price. I recycle and yes I am aware that my trash fee is subsidizing the rental on our block, big deal. The trash guys are neat, respectful of my property and when I need a mattress or couch hauled off it gets done.
Chestnut if it aint broke....
texburgh (anonymous) replies…
Well put! I agree whole-heartedly!
DRsmith (anonymous) says…
Lawrence cracks me up. So what about those that will just toss the trash wherever they please to avoid the higher charges?
biggunz (anonymous) replies…
Yep. People toss their crap in dumpsters all the time. Every dumpster in Lawrence will be full.
Stain (anonymous) replies…
And the ditches and vacant lots around town will be full of old couches and plastic bags of trash.
Brilliant idea there, Chestnut. NOT.
SpeedRacer (anonymous) says…
An extremely large Deffenbaugh trash truck drove down my narrow residential street yesterday...anyone know why?
biggunz (anonymous) replies…
Lol. An "extremely large" truck drove down your "narrow residential street"? Sorry, sounds like a prelude to b*tching and moaning to me.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) replies…
So you got in your own pre-emptive b*tch and moan. Super!!
SpeedRacer (anonymous) replies…
My question was more "is Deffenbaugh operating in Lawrence now?" It's easy to be snarky when you're anonymous isn't it?
jojogate (anonymous) replies…
Maybe they added to the article after your original post, but yes, Deffenbaugh is picking up recycling in Lawrence now.
PopcoRN (anonymous) replies…
Yes, Deffenbaugh picks up recycling in Lawrence, using extremely large trucks on residential streets.
Stain (anonymous) replies…
I don't know if this is true but this was posted on a review of Deffenbaugh on a KC website:
" Lousy service and lousy company
by DisFan at Citysearch
We all have known for years that Deffenbaugh stinks. They are rude, do a lousy job, break trashcans, leave messes, etc. And now I've heard (via an ex employee) that they don't really recycle - instead all the "recycling" stuff ends up in the same landfill as everything else. I'd love to get more scoop on that. I would change to A-1 in a heartbeat, but my homeowner's association contracts with Deffenbaugh."
Here's the link: http://kansascity.citysearch.com/prof...
I did not think for one second that they could afford to recycle that stuff for $5 a month. I'm not one bit surprised. Where is Chad Lawhorn, who should be following those trucks to see what the truth is?
no_thanks (anonymous) says…
The City shouldn't provide services that the general market can provide, such as those services provided with sanitation department. There are several benefits, which includes a switch to volume based usage (which just makes sense), but also raising cash at a time when the City struggles. Perhaps that money could be put to good use by reducing our property taxes (not likely, but a good thought).
gccs14r (anonymous) replies…
No, private contractors should not be used to provide basic services that are well withing the capability of a municipality to offer. Costs are fixed, so the only way to make a profit is to raise rates or reduce service. I'm happy with the service and don't want to pay more for less, so I definitely don't want some outside corporation coming in to export even more of our dollars.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) replies…
I agree. Fixed volume is a good idea, but there is no reason to fix what ain't broke by privatizing. (apologies in advance for the double post as the JW works through whatever bugs they have.)
imastinker (anonymous) replies…
I don't have a problem with the city providing services that it can do in a more cost effective manner than a private company. For instance, it would make no sense to use a private company to answer the phones at city hall.
That said, many times poor management and high costs result in municipalities spending more money to provide a service than it would cost otherwise. I have no idea if this is the case here, but it's a good discussion to have. One example would be the amount of time private companies keep trucks. I don't know how many dump trucks I see on the road that were once owned by a municipality or KDOT. They buy new ones every few years and there is still good life in them. There is every incentive at a private company to run a truck until the wheels fall off because the money that wasn't spent on a new truck is profit.
When a municipality is involved there is a "capital expenditure" fund that if it gets very big it needs to be spent on something or the department needs to spend the money allocated to it so that it gets that much the next year. The purpose is to spend everything it gets.
If a private company can make a profit and still do it cheaper than the city - who loses here?
Thinking_Out_Loud (anonymous) replies…
Check out what Sandy Springs, GA is doing about this.
http://www.governing.com/blogs/bfc/sa...
jafs (anonymous) replies…
That's a real problem, the way public budgets work.
But it could be changed - then we could have the benefits of public services, without some of the disadvantages.
And, the last question leaves out the question of the quality of the service provided.
overplayedhistory (anonymous) replies…
I am sure the amount of taxes reduced, by the time they sell all the equipment, for pennies on the dollar, would well be worth the savings.
hawkfan24 (anonymous) replies…
You people would not know what to do if you had a private company come in here. If you set your trash out late do you think the private company would come back and pick it up? NO. Do you think a private company would walk YOUR city streets and pick up trash out of YOUR yard? NO. There are two departments within the city that make money for the city and the sanitation department is one of those.
Stain (anonymous) replies…
I have the opposite opinion: If the city can hire employees to provide a needed function, there is no reason to privatize - especially since the contractor will have to make a profit, which certainly makes the service more expensive. The math doesn't make any sense. Also when the city contracts out, they lose control.
kansasgirl18 (Bailey Perkins) says…
Let me get this straight, if I'm too busy to remember to set my trash out one week - I will be charged for the overflow the next? How is that fair?
PopcoRN (anonymous) replies…
I'm assuming you wouldn't be charged at all for the week you forgot, so it would even out in the end.
gccs14r (anonymous) replies…
Of course you'll be charged. The customer charge is a flat rate, whether you put out trash or not. Skipping a week and going over the limit on the next would result in a surcharge. Not having the can in the spot specified by the carrier--charge. Not keeping the can clean and in good repair--charge. Exceeding the weight or volume limits--charge. Disallowed trash--left on curb. Truck spill--left in street. Surly employee--good luck with that with corporate headquarters being in Europe. Frustration and despair are free, though.
There is nothing to like and a whole lot to dislike about turning over trash service to a private company. Don't do it.
gccs14r (anonymous) replies…
No, private contractors should not be used to provide basic services that are well withing the capability of a municipality to offer. Costs are fixed, so the only way to make a profit is to raise rates or reduce service. I'm happy with the service and don't want to pay more for less, so I definitely don't want some outside corporation coming in to export even more of our dollars.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) replies…
I agree. Fixed volume is a good idea, but there is no reason to fix what ain't broke by privatizing. (apologies in advance for the double post as the JW works through whatever bugs they have.)
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) replies…
So you got in your own pre-emptive b*tch and moan. Super!!
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) replies…
I agree. Fixed volume is a good idea, but there is no reason to fix what ain't broke by privatizing. (apologies in advance for the double post as the JW works through whatever bugs they have.)
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
Make that apologies for the triple post.
kansasredlegs (anonymous) says…
Go ahead Commissioners, I need the excuse to stop raking leaves and cleaning up my yard. Nice to have retired one-bag-of-garbage-per-week neighbors so I can throw my excess that I can't fit into my can into theirs. It'll be sweet watching D'baughers picking up my stuff from 3 different locations for the same money.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Yes, if you do that, I hope your neighbors see you and prosecute you.
You're a pretty lousy neighbor.
kansasredlegs (anonymous) replies…
First, you two don't understand sarcasm. Second, my neighbors and I are really cool with one another. Third, my neighbors would support it just to get over on the Gov'ment and have a laugh over beers. Fourth, why should a person pay for an extra bag at one house when your neighbor's can is 3/4 empty. Means the neighbor is getting ripped off when one pays for a full pick up of a 1/4 full can, right? Fifth, no prosecution if neighbor allows it.
Jaminrawk (anonymous) says…
No, seriously, it's a GREAT idea to put Lawrence residents out of their jobs and hand the reigns over to a Kansas City business. Nothing says good city management like the threat of more unemployment.
fiercesomeus (anonymous) says…
Please attend the City Commission meeting Tuesday Sept 7 at 6:30 at city hall.
LesBlevins (anonymous) says…
Rob Chestnut says; "I hear quite a few comments from residents who say they are trying everything they can to increase their recycling rate" "and then their neighbors aren’t doing anything but they still get charged the same rate for trash pickup,"
This of course should be high on the list of concerns for the city because that isn't a fair system and leads to tension and who knows what else between neighbors.
A Material Recovery Facility is a fair way to solve this problem as everyone's recyclables would be removed by automatic equipment and/or by those who are in need of a job.
Stain (anonymous) replies…
I don't believe this is a concern among neighbors. What kind of neighbor spends their time monitoring the amount of trash another has and frets over it? If anyone is that pathetic they should do some serious soul-searching. I do all I can to put less in the landfill, but I would not think of looking down on my neighbors whose trash is none of my business.
Chestnut is creating bad feelings already, where there were none. How many people are going to think they are supposed to start scrutinizing their neighbors' trash now, because he suggested it?
jafs (anonymous) replies…
It's not about looking down on your neighbors - it's just that we put out significantly less trash than most - why shouldn't we pay less?
We pay for water, gas, electricity, etc. based on usage - why not trash?
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Also, it might encourage more people to recycle and find other ways to reduce their trash, which would be a good thing.
sandrat83 (anonymous) says…
By 2012 all the citys trash Sevc will be no longer ran by the city
The works of the citys trash srvc needs To worrie because they will all get the ax by the city
merrill (anonymous) says…
Decisions are on the horizon much sooner than anyone thinks otherwise it would not be in the newspaper. Let's not kid ourselves.
Level of service quality will drop. Don't expect to call city hall to complain and have complaint addressed in a timely manner. This will not save local consumers money.
Deffenbaugh is no longer a USA company. It is now a Belgium company if my memory serves me well which means more USA dollars will leave the country.
I'm all for Pay As You Throw.
Have locals been invited to the table?
Privatization does not equal fiscal responsible management it equals more cost. After all there is a CEO,BOD's,golden parachutes and shareholders to keep happy.
artichokeheart (anonymous) replies…
What's wrong Merrill? Are you against this because they don't tote the trash on a bicycle?
grammaddy (anonymous) replies…
No, because more of our money goes to someone else's pocket overseas.And he's right. Privatization does NOT equal responsible money-management.My mama always said" If it aint broke, don't fix it." I'm perfectly happy with the trash service as it is now.Make everyone rent the trash bins and charge by the size and how many you have.It's got to be cheaper than privatization.
dudedog12 (anonymous) says…
You guys are missing the hidden agenda. It is to get rid of the trash department, contract it out and you will think that your taxes will go down..
Stain (anonymous) replies…
It's screamingly obvious.
Made_in_China (Paul R. Getto) says…
Not a bad idea; we should pay more for packaging in the first place; there are choices in these matters; then we should be charged by the pound for what we toss out. The trash folks could do double duty.......weighing the trash and weighing people at the same time to determine their health insurance rates. Your government at work?
merrill (anonymous) says…
AND just exactly how does cutting more locals off our city payroll help the local economy? I would prefer to keep people on the payroll.
There is something wrong with this picture.
artichokeheart (anonymous) replies…
At twice the pay? Maybe if the city paid the sanitation workers for the actual hours worked we wouldn't even be having this debate.
Stain (anonymous) replies…
There is no way that a private company can do the same job and make a profit - and have it cost the customer less in the end. I'd rather see the city pay its employees well than have a corporation pay their employees low wages and keep a profit.
Remember, all your money will be going to Kansas City - not staying in Lawrence.
RalphReed (Ralph Reed) says…
From the KC Star: 29 Dec 2007.
"DLJ Merchant Banking Partners has completed its acquisition of Shawnee-based Deffenbaugh Industries Inc.
The law firm of Lathrop & Gage, which represented Deffenbaugh in the transaction, confirmed that the deal closed on Dec. 21.
DLJ, a private-equity investment arm of financial services company Credit Suisse, did not disclose the price, but knowledgeable sources have pegged it at between $300 million and $350 million."
*****
According to this, Deffenbaugh is owned by a private equity firm and technically is not based in KC. Hence, their sole driving force is profit for their shareholders, not service.
Well done Dever and Chestnut. We can expect the service quality to go down, and the rates to go up. In addition, there's another bill to pay. I wondered how long it would take them to weasel in on the trash once they start limited recycling pickup. Seems you two are right in there helping them along.
Now, what about yard waste removal on Mondays? I assume that's not going to continue, or if it does, it will continue at a highly increased rate.
@ Dever and Chestnut. Just curious about how much of a stake you have in Deffenbaugh. Mind letting us know?
keepingfingerscrossed (anonymous) says…
Why do you all of a sudden want to put people out of work. Is it a slap in the face sounds like to me. The guys work hard to keep the city looking good. If you do this it is going to look like the streets in kansas city. Kansas city is trashy all the time have you been there to look. And for you all that is graping about the guys working four hour you are wrong. I bet you would not want to get out there and do there work because of the magets and the other discusting stuff that is thrown away. The guys work hard, they are made to run as fast as they can by there supervisers so that they can get done as quit as they can. I know that they do as much work in 4 to6 hours they work as people do in 8 hours. so what is the grap about they do a great job for the city. If deffenbaugh gets it it will cast a lot more then we ar paying now don't do this it would be so crazy to put our guys out of work . the city will start looking like kanasa city bad.
werekoala (anonymous) says…
Pay per volume - great idea. Heck, just say that each resident gets two trash cans included in the service, additional trash or whatever gets billed at a higher rate. Brings in more money for the service, by charging those who use it more. Great idea.
But losing the ability to control our own sanitation service? Sorry, privatization is NOT the answer. As a citizen, I like the idea that if there is a big festival, or disaster, or whatever we have the capacity to handle that additional need without having to play "Mother May I" with some out of town VP. There's also been talk about outfitting trash trucks with plows for major snow storms... kiss that capacity goodbye.
This seems to be like many of the other grand ideas from King Rob; a solution in search of a problem, and driven by ideology rather than merit.
lawrenceks66 (anonymous) says…
Just curious .. how does this work? Does the truck driver or guys dumping the trash have to keep track of it? I just wonder how they know who's who and how to charge ... anybody know about the bookkeeping part?
lawrenceks66 (anonymous) replies…
Oh .. and what about yard waste .. will that collection go away?
jajacut (Jeff Cuttell) says…
We never should have let Deffenbaugh into Lawrence in the first place. We already have local recycle centers and curbside. It was obvious that they wouldn't be satisfied with coming into our town for recycling and business accounts. They will put the little local guys out of biz and also try to take over the city trash system. All the while putting more people out of work and moving dollars to KC.
I think someone should investigate if there has been some kind of payoff from them to any of our elected leaders for this to happen. It seems very suspicious. This will only hurt Lawrence.
Stain (anonymous) replies…
This was obvious the second they invited Deffenbaugh in to provide recycling at a price nobody could believe was true.
Private trash services are typically run by the mob. I wonder if that's true in K.C.
LadyJ (anonymous) says…
Doesn't the city also pick up animals that have been killed in the roadway if you call in? Will Deffenbaugh do this also?
artichokeheart (anonymous) replies…
My guess is animal control will get to do that.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Well, they're pretty understaffed and funded as it is.
artichokeheart (anonymous) replies…
That's why one of them has been caught sleeping by the river in her truck.
hawkfan24 (anonymous) replies…
No animal control will not do it. Artichokeheart, you sure do have a lot to say and not many facts to back what you are saying. You also seem to be on here a lot, you must have one of those work 4 hours and get paid for 8 that you are complaining about.
bad_dog (anonymous) replies…
I found a dead possum under my deck a couple of springs ago and called animal control. No way they would come get it. Their advice? Put it in your trash can and let them haul it off. didn't matter to me as long as I got ride of the stinky thing...
hawkfan24 (anonymous) replies…
Yes the city does this now. for FREE
ladyshepks (anonymous) replies…
Yes, the sanitation dept picks up the animals, they also clean up the highways and clean up the Oread neighborhood, Old West Lawrence and East Lawrence alleys. I doubt the private companies will do any of this.
sunflower97 (Amy Bartle) says…
I was curious to know how we would be billed, so I googled and found that St Louis Park,. Minnesota offers this system. http://www.stlouispark.org/garbage.html
Here's an excerpt:
St. Louis Park offers a “pay-as-you-throw” system with eight service level choices for weekly trash. Customers choose the level of service that most closely matches the amount of garbage they typically set out each week.
30 gallon service – $32.78 per quarter (includes tax)
(The 30 gallon cart holds 2 – 3 tall kitchen bags and is 39” high, 24” wide and 23” deep.)
60 gallon service – $43.35 per quarter (includes tax)
(The 60 gallon cart holds 4 – 6 tall kitchen bags and is 41” high, 27” wide and 28” deep.)
90 gallon service – $53.93 per quarter (includes tax)
(The 90 gallon cart holds 5 – 7 tall kitchen bags and is 45” high, 29” wide and 33” deep.)
90+ (120 – 180 gallon) service – $64.50 per quarter (includes tax)
(One 90 gallon cart and one other cart to match the service selection.)
270 gallon service – $84.50 per quarter (includes tax)
(Three 90 gallon carts)
360 gallon service – $104.50 per quarter (includes tax)
(Four 90 gallon carts.)
450 gallon service – $124.50 per quarter (includes tax)
(Five 90 gallon carts.)
540 gallon service – $144.50 per quarter (includes tax)
(Six 90 gallon carts.)
Customers selecting the 30, 60 or 90 gallon service level have one cart delivered to their home at no charge. Customers selecting a service level that’s greater than 90 gallons will receive the minimum number of carts needed to reach their service level selection at no charge. If this standard cart assignment won’t work for you, you may request a combination of carts. (For example, instead of one 60 gallon cart, you could ask for two 30 gallon carts.) If you choose this option, however, you must pay for the additional cart(s). An additional 30 gallon cart is $40; an additional 60 gallon cart is $44; an additional 90 gallon cart is $48."
"Pick the service level that most closely matches the amount of garbage you typically set out each week. Remember that your garbage cart only needs to hold regular household trash. Recyclables should be placed in your recycling bin.... Yard waste must be placed in a yard waste bag or in a garbage can with a “Yard Waste Only” sticker on the container. Pick a service level large enough to ensure that all your garbage will fit inside your garbage cart with the lid closed. Garbage placed in other containers will not be collected."
The document goes on to say "Don’t pick an unrealistically low service level to save money."
sunflower97 (Amy Bartle) says…
Like Glo, our regular trash has significantly decreased since we started recycling. It's been a real eye opener to see the amount of stuff we accumulate that can be recycled. We've had a very positive experience with the recycling program too. It's been really easy and online pay is a snap. I agree with some of the the posters that the Lawrence City sanitation workers do an outstanding job so there is "nothing broken" that I see. If the city outsources this service, I hope that many of the current workers could stay employed by working for the outsourced company.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) replies…
"If the city outsources this service, I hope that many of the current workers could stay employed by working for the outsourced company."
If it is outsourced, costs to Lawrence residents would not go down, but pay and benefits for the workers would almost certainly go down in order to cover high salaries for company executives and profits sent to stockholders.
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
The city starting outsourcing tree trimmin in the city and look what we have, an overgrown inner city forest in dire need of work. So, that didn't work.
I would keep the current sanitation department. Having dealt with the department for many years, they are more than responsible in getting trash picked up, bulk items and cleaning around dumpster areas in private areas and commercial and multi family pickups.
Apparently Mr. Chestnut is not aware that each kitchen pays a sanitation charge. So, an apartment complex with 100 units is paying 100X what merrill pays.
It is a fact, that many single family, Beaver Cleaver households in Lawrence put out more trash than most of the fourplexes around.
Someone already mentioned this and I have as well. It is a plan to privatize the local trash service, nothing more. Have you forgotten how the auditor came up with some numbers.
It would make more sense for the city to privatize parking downtown as the city is extremely inept at running it and making it pay. All of the land that has parking lots on it, giving away FREE spaces at night and during the daytime collecting nickles and dimes.
privatize parking and put the parking lots on the tax rolls.After all, the property once was on the tax rolls. Most people don't even remember the houses torn down in the 1000 block of Vermont where the farmers market is to make way for parking. And now it is free parking.
Lawrence is stuck in the civil war.
Hey, what's the name of the corporation that bought Defenbaugh? That might be a better investment than buying bonds in the Bowersock Power plant.
puddleglum (anonymous) replies…
"It is a fact, that many single family, Beaver Cleaver households in Lawrence put out more trash than most of the fourplexes around."
-spoken like a true slumlord.....
where did you get this fact? from tom shewmon?
maybe you should take a tour and look at all the crap the students leave twice a semester all over town...chairs, tables, beds, junk, trash, and junk-trash-junk sprinkled with a bunch of junk?
was_freashpowder2 (Alexander Neighbors) says…
the City Leaders should just privatizing the Mayors position and the Rest of city council........ oh wait they already have....
Mari (Mari Windermere) says…
Questions I have about the changes that are being proposed:
What about the pickup of furniture and other large items, especially at the end of July? In a college town, we need this service and I doubt those who have moved will pay for it.
How will this system be made fair when a pay-by-the-bag system could only affect house dwellers in a town of so many multiple family dwellings.
Also, what will happen to Monday's yard waste pickup?
Will those with more tree waste in their yards (that is not included in the Monday pickup) be charged extra for branch pickup?
What will we, as customers and tax payers, gain from privatization?
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
What the city needs to privatize is Loring Henderson's expensive boondoggle.
Mari (Mari Windermere) says…
I know we all want to feel good about the choices we make, but we need to know the truth in order to make the best choices. Recycling as it is currently practiced is not exactly environmental success story.
The majority of the plastics we recycle end up in China, where worker safety and environmental standards are virtually nonexistent. Many other items are scavenged for their valuable components and end up in a landfill in another part of the world. Printer ink cartridges, for example, are sent to China, drained of their ink, and the cartridge itself ends up in a landfill there.
The only items that are cost effective for private industries to recycle in the US are some metal and glass materials. Even in the case of metal, which has the long, 150 year history of recycling, there are health and environmental concerns. The initial shredding process itself releases dangerous metal particles into the air. The meltdown comes with its own environmental concerns.
I am not saying that we don't need to recycle. Clearly, we do. I am saying that we need to change the how and where we recycle our waste as well as what is contained in that waste in the future. For example, plasticizers, such a BPA or those in PVC. are unhealthy in production, use, and recycling.
fyrfighter (anonymous) says…
First off, you have to ask Chestnut what deffenbaugh is paying him to bring this up. There may be problems with city sanitation, but I am telling you that private contractors is not the way to go. Sure deffenbaugh will offer low rates at first. But after a few months, the price will go up, and there will be nothing you can do. on top of that, deffenbaugh's customer service sucks. stay with city service, keep local jobs, and be a lot better off.
Stain (anonymous) replies…
BINGO
none2 (anonymous) says…
I'll never understand why some households have so much trash. If you recycle (including composting of organic wastes) , there really shouldn't be much left. I typically have maybe 2 grocery plastic bags of trash a week. The only time I have more is if I make some major purchase which comes with gobs of Styrofoam packaging that cannot be recycled.
I also don't understand this mentality that trash hauling must be done by the government. If government can really do everything cheaper, then why don't we just nationalize everything. Lets have the city run gas stations, plumbing companies, electrical companies, retail, etc.
As to what Lawrence should do, I think the best thing would be to see what surrounding communities are doing. I googled and found out that Baldwin has some company in Ottawa do their trash? Are they happy? Is Ottowa happy with their private companies? What about Eudora, Tonganoxie, Perry, Lecompton, Topeka? What do they do, and what do people in those places think of their service?
killmiltonfriedman (anonymous) says…
deffenbaugh is owned by a foreign corporation called DLJ, a private equity arm of Credit Suisse. The pay for volume trash pick up as well as the $5 recycling are a bait and switch. We will end up paying much more and put the workers at the sanitation dept out of work and into foreclosure. My garbage sevice works great and has been paid for with my tax dollars. Tell the city commision no to privatization of our city services to foreign corporations or we will vote them out next election
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DLJ_Merchant_Banking_Partners
none2 (anonymous) replies…
There is a simple way to mitigate that issue. Instead of having the city contract with them, just allow the resident the right to pick any of several companies. Why should any one entity have a monopoly on who gets the trash?
Have areas where Deffenbaugh is already located seen their bills go up?
jafs (anonymous) replies…
If the idea was to come in, offer cheap recycling, and then take over the trash collection, they wouldn't raise rates until they got the trash collection part.
somedude20 (anonymous) says…
Great! I already see home owners/ home renters/ contractors take their garbage and dump it in the trash bins for apartments.
No more soup for yuths
overplayedhistory (anonymous) says…
I did I miss a reason that the city can not implement a pay as you throw program?
LTownMadness (anonymous) says…
Lawrence has some pretty out of touch city commissioners anyway. I'm sure Chestnut couldn't care less about sanitation workers because they aren't his neighbors. More Lawrence jobs lost certainly wouldn't phase a guy who is an executive for a company in a nosedive..
Stain (anonymous) replies…
It's shocking to hear the commissioners even contemplating a move that would destroy jobs in Lawrence in this economic climate. I cannot imagine what they are thinking. Actually, I think I know what they are $$$$thinking$$$$ and it is not for the good of Lawrence.
pizzapete (anonymous) says…
"My biggest fear is we lose control over the quality of the service and the cost of the service,” Dever said. “And once we stop providing the service, it will be almost impossible for us to jump back into it" That's exactly right Dever, don't do it.
I don't disagree that someone throwing out a couch or refrigerator should pay more. But paying more money and getting worse service from a foreign company, who the heck thinks this is a good idea? Like others have said, if it isn't broken why are you trying to fix it?
Stain (anonymous) replies…
Sometimes things backfire. If you charge someone extra to throw out a piece of furniture, I imagine a lot of people - poor students for example - would be throwing that furniture in ditches. Putting out furniture isn't such a bad thing, as those items often get recycled by others who adopt them.
I just think they are asking for an accounting nightmare. It's simple the way it is now, and I'm sure it all averages out in the end - with far less overhead than they're going to have if they start charging by the quart, or the pound, or the piece, or making people put out the same amount of trash every week when many households don't flow like that.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Other cities implement these sorts of programs, and I think they do fine with them.
As far as all of the "people will just throw stuff in ditches, etc." - anytime you have any sorts of rules, people may try to get around them - should we stop making rules?
Prosecute those who throw stuff in ditches.
We generally put out far less trash than most - and recently got a composting tumbler - I'd be surprised if we needed to put out even one small bag a week. Why should we be paying the same amount for trash collection as a large family that throws out several large trash cans/week?
IndusRiver (anonymous) says…
Off-subject, but does anybody know what will clean magic marker off a wall?
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) replies…
Yes, the same thing that marty kennedy suggested several years ago about a house on E 13th "you want the bulldozer". dozers take out anything you want removed.
puddleglum (anonymous) replies…
you mean the trash heap that the slumlord wouldn't fix up?
yeah, I remember
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) replies…
No it wasn't a rental, it was an owner / occupied. Kinda like the house now on Haskell that is boarded up and was going to be saved because it is historical, so now where is Marty when we need him.
puddleglum (anonymous) replies…
that guy Marty....such a glashole
ha. get it?
artichokeheart (anonymous) replies…
nail polish remover.
grammaddy (anonymous) replies…
Mr. clean 's Magic Eraser.
whatthehell (anonymous) says…
All of the posters claiming decreased service and higher costs in the long run are correct. My mother lives in older neighborhood in Johnson county, svc. by Defenbaugh and they SUCK. , plus she pays more, has limits on recyclables and is generally not pleased. This is not all that different than considering private company take over water department or other city service. very year they will need to make more profit than the last. How does that not = higher costs and less service over time. Do not be fooled. Go private and one of Lawrence best run departments will be sorely missed in short order. Consider this: ANY week of the year you can call the city with the need to dispose of a large item...couch, dead washing machine, or whatever. They will tell you to put it out o your scheduled day and it will be taken care of.
Mari (Mari Windermere) replies…
Same with my MIL in KCK, who also has Defenbaugh.
IndusRiver (anonymous) says…
Oh yeah, bulldoze the wall. I am considering it. It's gonna let in more light, too.
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
So let's get down to business folks about this trash situation.
1. Is the city paying more to run sanitation than it takes in? Chad, that's your question.
2. How much is the city property that the sanitation workers work out of? That's Chad's question to to ask our knowledgeable county appraiser.
3. What are the city trash trucks worth for scrap? Ask Bo at 12th and Haskell about that?
4. What are the City of Lawrence trash trucks worth to Defenbaugh? That's a question for the City Manager, he has been touted as being in the know about finances, that's what was said when he was hired.
5. How many employees of City of Lawrence Sanitation live in Lawrence? That's a question for Mr. Douglass at City Hall.
6. How many employees would Defenbaugh have live in Lawrence? That's a question to ask in Geneva at the next meeting of the Swiss Bank.
7. HOw much is Defenbaugh prepared to pay in real estate property taxes for the city property at 11th and Haskell if it is sold OR
the real question is: Who in town has some land for sale that Defenbaugh will buy to operate from? We know the city won't sell any land , they will take the 11th / Haskell property and move some other city department into it.
What's going on with the police thingy at the old Morton Concrete? That's a good example of taking property off the tax rolls and waiting years to use if for city and/or police evidence building.
And a question for Ms. Wheeler at City Hall. What is the current liability if a city worker gets injured while slipping on a curb in front of a driveway to pick up trash. Who is responsible? The home owner of the city? If Defenbaugh comes to town, how much liability will they have?
What will the city require Defenbaugh to operate in Lawrence? License fees. Maybe even a fee to use the streets as Mission Kansas has done for driveways. The city could make a lot of money, charging Defenbaugh a fee to go in and out of driveways at banks, grocery stores, apt complexes, using the alleys. It is endless. So much money to be made and so much money to be lost from the homeowners and current recipients of trash service.
I say, "Mr. Chesnut, trash your idea"
gccs14r (anonymous) replies…
Sure, charge a fee to go in and out of driveways, giving the carrier an excuse to tie up the street and roll the dumpsters down the alley, instead. That'd be a huge mess.
IndusRiver (anonymous) says…
I say, "Mr. Chesnut, trash your idea"
-----------------------------------------------------
All in Favor, vote yea
yea
killmiltonfriedman (anonymous) says…
Yea ....trash the idea or trash Chestnut next election
jrlii (anonymous) says…
I would advocate, rather than allocating bins, provide branded bags like Ard's (sp?) used to do around Topeka: You bought so many bags, and they'd pick 'em up. The only expense would be for the bags, no special metered garbage trucks required.
This has an advantage that people like me who don't generate a lot of trash could trade or sell 'em with friends or neighbors who generate more. . .
At the moment I'd probably recycle a lot more if I wasn't paying for way more trash collection than I'm using as it is. It is a rare week when I generate even one thirty gallon bag of trash.
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
Oh I should think a more reasonable way would be for LAN , that pesky group to have garbage bag sales to raise money to fight building projects and everything else that comes to their mind.
NO one in Lawrence would get their trash picked up unless it had a logo for LAN and maybe a photo of their poster child leader on the trash bag.
Hey, make this fun. Go the milk carton route.
Every neighborhood has their own trash bags. Centennial with A All......n.s photo.
Oread could have that slumlord Wilbur on a bag. Go wilbur! Maybe even a couple thousand printed with a Porta Potty on them and guess who's photo. Nothing like eye Candy for everyone.
East Lawrence trash bags would have the Depot Redoux with a Moody photo of someone that is not Carey salt mine connected.
And the best trash bag collection yet, would have the stupid photo collage of the school board on it. I want those bags to have the plastic noose righ about where it's not so Lovely so that it will Land in the trash truck intact.
fiercesomeus (anonymous) says…
please remember lawrence citizens city commission meeting
september 7, 2010 at 6:30 city hall in the city commission room
we need to voice our opinion to the commissioners and stop this action
Jane (anonymous) says…
I am one of those who has minimal trash. When I moved here, I didn't even contact the city to pick up my trash and one month the charge for hauling just showed up on my water bill. I will gladly support non-city owned trash service, then I can CHOOSE to contract with someone if I want trash service. I prefer to burn it, at my family member's home that is out in the country.
LadyJ (anonymous) replies…
I'm not sure, but I think you cannot opt out. Even if it goes private, the billing will come on your water bill, at least that is what I heard. Did you know if you have your water turned off you still get a bill for $25 because you have a meter that must be maintained and whatever.
sundowner (anonymous) says…
Mr. Chestnut - please listen to what the majority are saying and don't forget who you work for.
LadyJ (anonymous) says…
This is a off topic but pertains to services you recieve. The city and Sunflower has decided that since Sunflower cable is a utility, they do not have to have the property owners permission to drill holes wherever a tenant may decide they want them, and will no longer require the tenant to get permission. So a landlord could end up with holes and wires all over and holes through their walls where they may not want them. Now satelite providers must get permission since they are not a utility.
puddleglum (anonymous) says…
I have to agree with the majority, even though I am uncommonly beautiful.
trash this idea.
is someone sleeping with deffenbaugh?
maybe we sould take out the garbage with the next election?
Stain (anonymous) says…
This makes me sad for our city. I could see this coming as soon as they started talking about inviting private recycling services to advertise in the city. We have Lawrence recycling businesses trying to make a go of it, but no, they had to let Kansas City come in her and draw money out of the city.
Someone is on the take. This is baloney.
There's not a single good reason to take jobs away from people in Lawrence and ship the money out of the city.
As far as people complaining about how much trash other people have - I don't believe a word of this. People who recycle do it for better reasons than to complain about everyone paying a flat rate for trash.
This is a bad idea for everyone except Dieffenbach and the commissioners on the take.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
You're wrong about those who don't want to pay a flat rate.
We pay for many other services based on usage - water, gas, electric, etc. Why shouldn't the same apply for trash collection?
Stain (anonymous) says…
I don't see how the pay-by-volume would work anyway. We have very little trash for a family of our size, because we've developed habits of reusing, recycling, not using disposable shopping bags and other disposables, buying things with minimal packaging, giving things to charity, etc.
But once in awhile we'll have a mountain of trash because someone has gone on a cleaning spree, or there was a party, or whatever. Would I have to spread out the trash over multiple weeks to avoid paying as a high-volume user when this only happens every few weeks?
The overhead of administration seems like it would negate any gain, even if it weren't such a bad idea for a dozen other reasons.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Again, other cities do this and it works fine.
Also, people often don't think about conservation, etc. until it hits them in the pocketbook - when landlord's pay for water, most tenants don't think about conserving water. When they're paying for it themselves, they might be more likely to do so.
The same is true for trash services - if you're paying more because you put more out, you have a financial incentive to reduce your trash.
Stain (anonymous) says…
I decided to google up this private company. The reviews from customers in KC are terrible: average one star out of five. Scathing complaints.
http://www.insiderpages.com/b/3714894...
Stain (anonymous) says…
And another review says that Deffenbaugh doesn't recycle the recycling it picks up, just throws it in the same landfill with the trash. http://kansascity.citysearch.com/prof...
becky2864 (anonymous) says…
Here are some of their complaints....
A WASTE of time and energy...
Steve B. 1 Deffenbaugh Industries Inc
Many complaints... I changed the brakes on my car and threw the old ones in the trash. Some up and coming young star in the waste management field actually crawled into the truck and threw the brakes back into my yard and told me they "do NOT accept auto parts!" I can understand fenders, engines or transmissions, but brake shoes???Another time I set my trash out for pick-up and found a branch (about 2 feet long and maybe 3/4" thick) had fallen and I placed it in the can, which was placed about 3' from the curb. They refused my trash stating that yard waste must be set beside the curb! Another time I placed my recycling out for pick-up and it was not collected. I called to ask why and I was told that an animal had crapped in the container. I apologized and told them I would clean it out. I inspected the container and there was no animal feces anywhere near it. The next week my recycling was once again refused. I called in and they again said an animal had crapped in the container. I looked again and there was no feces anywhere to be found. The following week I waited for the the driver and I watched as he removed a bottle from the container and placed it behind the back tire of my car. I ran after him and he sped away. I looked at the bottle and there were some small bugs that had crawled inside (maybe to drink up the residue?) and had died. I assume this was the animal feces that had created such an unbearable issue...Want some more??? How about picking up the rolling $50 trash can above the collectors head and slamming it on the driveway shattering the plastic wheel into pieces? No, not just mine, every rolling container in my neighborhood was the same. Or how about the rule about not accepting recycling containers with broken glass (safety hazard) which I can agree with. But how about some moron pulling his gloves off and removing pieces of a broken bottle (broken overnight) and throwing the pieces into my yard and then picking up the container and dumping the contents into the back of the truck???Believe it or not, I have more but I'll spare you the gruesome details and tell you that this morning they just didn't pick up my trash. No reason, no explanation, they just didn't do it. So, I have finally had enough and found a new company in my area....Hopefully superior disposal will provide a little known spice in this industry called customer satisfaction!!!
becky2864 (anonymous) says…
And another...and the list goes on...just follow t link Stain provided
http://www.insiderpages.com/b/3714894...
Service that Stinks...
Ruth S. 1 Deffenbaugh Industries Inc
THE worst disposal company. I wondered why no one else on my street used Deffenbaugh. Now I know. Not long after starting trash pick-up one of the drivers broke the wheel off my brand new barrel. Then after about 1 year of mediocre service, they switched our pick-day from Wednesday to Thursday without ever letting us know, and then raised their prices. They never arrived at a consistent time- sometimes as early as 7 in the morning and other times as late as 5pm. One particular morning, the truck pulled up and we had forgotten to put our trash out, so my husband ran outside and pulled the barrel to the road. The truck sat there for a second, but no one got out. I could see from the house that there was only ONE person in the truck. My husband started throwing the bags into the truck, since the guy obviously wasn't getting out, and the jerk drove off while my husband was still emptying the barrel!! After Labor Day, ALL the other disposal companies in the neighborhood were still right on time, but not deffenbaugh! Oh no! They were a day late. This last week they didn't even pick up the trash. In fact they never drove down the street at all. So are trash sat out a whole week, while we wondered if they had changed our pick-up day yet again. But they did come the next Thursday. But when I went out to pull in the barrel, I found a bag of trash left inside. That was the last straw. I called up the company to complain, and the lady was extremely rude. She was huffing and sighing into the phone the whole time, never once apologized, and tried to blame me, saying that the driver reported that I didn't have my trash out on time the week before. Bull Crap. He didn't even bother to drive down my street to check. When I told her that they left a bag of trash in the barrel she said, "Well, how many bags did you have out there?!" When I told her that it was enough to fit in the barrel with the lid closed she said nothing. And of course, didn't apologize. I told her that was going to switch my trash service and she got all testy with me. Deffenbaugh raised their prices three different times while I used their service and I am more than happy to switch to AAA (who was very friendly and has great reviews, by the way).
becky2864 (anonymous) says…
Hmmmmm.....
Deffenbaugh Disposal - unfortunately no other service to use!!
Dave F. 1 Deffenbaugh Industries Inc
Deffenbaugh Disposal - unfortunately no other service to use!! I live in KC KS and unfortunately Deffenbaugh is the only service that is available. Trash pickup is sloppy, leaving messes on the road, ripping bags and letting the litter fall on the ground without picking up after themselves. Trash cans are thrown around; they may stay where they throw them or roll back out in the street. I have actually seen my trash can roll back out into the street and when the truck finished it's route on our cul-de-sac the truck actually drove up through part of my neighbors yard to go around it. I put out a wooden shelf unit, approximately 3 ft by 3.5 ft and they did not take it even though I have seen them take washers/dryers/dish washers and throw them into the trash truck... I guess that wood doesn't sound as neat as metal does when they crush it. The workers also get to decide if the refuse is construction material or not; like they are the experts. Cleaning out my garage/basement I had left over pieces of sheet rock and wood from old home projects. I broke them up and put in seperate boxes to make it light enough for them. They did not take the boxes as they deemed it construction materials. Yeah, right... 3 boxes of maybe 15 lbs. maximum each... lot of construction going on there!!! I despise Deffenbaugh! They know that we are stuck with them and they will take advantage of it to the fullest extent!!!
fiercesomeus (anonymous) says…
Lawrence City Commission Meeting
Tuesday Sept.7, 2010 @ 6:30
City Hall in the City Commission room
Lawrence Citizens let the commissioners know how we feel
about this and have them put a stop to it.
fiercesomeus (anonymous) says…
Lawrence City Commission Meeting
Tuesday Sept.7, 2010 @ 6:30
City Hall in the City Commission room
Lawrence Citizens let the commissioners know how we feel
about this and have them put a stop to it.
LadyJ (anonymous) says…
Thank you Stain and Becky. You would think that the city commission would check reviews from other cities, but I guess not, otherwise why would they even consider this company? Lawrence should not even consider going private without at least 3 providers for choices. Locking the city into only one choice is idiocy. Our guys do a great job dealing with some of the worst working conditions the city has to offer.
LadyJ (anonymous) says…
You know, the city should tote having an excellent city trash service as an asset to attract potential residents and bussinesses.
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
So, if the city stopped providing santitation, i.e. trash pickup, bulk item pickup, tire pickup, cleaning of areas around dumpsters and along streets, will Defenbaugh do the same?
Will Defenbaugh remove the containers at schools for example at Prairie Park and thus, everyone has to use Defenbaugh for curbside everything?
I want the Journal World to provide to the public a full acounting in the paper of income and disbursements of the City Sanitation Department. But will that happen? Not likely.
There are more progressive cities than Lawrence that the santitation service is run by the city. In fact, the trash department even has twice a year neighborhood cleanups and provides construction dumpster for the areas and the city workers assist.
Former city employee Torres said he would do this but it was all talk.
Lawrence is trashy and getting rid of the trash service will make it more so.
booyalab (anonymous) says…
I actually think this is an interesting thought experiment from an economics perspective. Maybe, in the long run, if an industry is privatized it is better for the government to stop the service without passing the baton to any one company in particular. It sounds chaotic, but people can be surprisingly entrepeneurial under short notice.
fiercesomeus (anonymous) says…
Lawrence City Commission Meeting
Tuesday Sept.7, 2010 @ 6:30
City Hall in the City Commission room
Lawrence Citizens let the commissioners know how we feel
about this and have them put a stop to it.
Yeah that really sounds like the kind of experiment we really need
put people out of work, have an outside company come in and take that money
out of Lawrence, what are you a daufenbaugh worker.
Mari (Mari Windermere) says…
Take a look at this article about privatization in KC with Deffenbaugh:
http://www.pitch.com/2009-04-23/news/...
merrill (anonymous) says…
Item 5 on regular agenda this Tuesday at City Commission meeting. Yes September 7 2010
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2010/sep...
been_there (anonymous) says…
If the reason for going private is money, why not cut back on beautification? We would rather see city workers picking up our trash than out planting and watering trees and flowers. Which do you think would look better, a city with lots of trees and flowers but streets littered with trash or a city with clean streets and fewer flowers and trees. You know that the city will have to pay workers to go out and pick up litter so where is the savings? While the sculptures downtown are on loan, we still have to pay to install and keep them up. There other "optional" areas things could cut back to fund trash pickup. Quit transfering the money to other departments to build up their coffers and keep it in sanitation.
Commissioners, once you do this it may not be possible to undo. Are you planning to live in Lawrence the rest of your life? Can you live with the fact everyone you meet will have been adversely affected and harmed by this one act? They will be coming up to you on the street 10 yrs from now telling you off for what you did to this town. For heavens sake, look at the link Mari posted. Keep in mind that Deffenbaugh will lock the city into a long term contract that even if future commissioners wanted to go back to a city sanitation, they wouldn't be able to undo what you have done.
been_there (anonymous) says…
For all of you complaining about the "work for 6 hours, but paid for 8" scenario, you will be paying more for less than what you are getting now.