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Memorial service for Jason Wren
Mourners gather at a memorial service Thursday for Jason Wren in front of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity house of which he was a member. Wren was found dead Sunday at the fraternity house after a night of drinking, his family has said.
An attorney for the parents of Jason Wren, a Kansas University student who died in 2009 from alcohol poisoning, alleges a KU fraternity has not changed its conduct toward underage drinking since Wren’s death.
Attorney Stephen Gorny, in a recent filing in the wrongful death suit, alleges “future possible harm to other victims is likely” based on an alcohol violation the fraternity committed in April 2010, a year after Wren’s death and six days before an underage drinking educational seminar on campus called the Jason Wren Initiative.
But Michael Seck, an attorney for the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity, said Gorny cannot use incidents that occurred after Wren’s death as evidence to seek punitive damages in the suit and that the chapter expelled nearly two dozen active members from the house after the April 2010 alcohol violation.
Wren, a 19-year-old KU freshman from Littleton, Colo., was found dead March 8, 2009, at the SAE house, 1301 W. Campus Road, after a night of heavy drinking. His death was one event that put a spotlight on underage drinking on the KU campus.
In the lawsuit, Wren’s family alleges fraternity members failed to seek medical help for their son despite his intoxication and a head injury. Wren had used a fake ID earlier in the night to drink alcohol at a restaurant. He then continued to drink beer and liquor later at the chapter house, according to the suit.
Wren was living there as a pledge after he violated KU’s alcohol policy and was no longer allowed to live in a KU residence hall. According to the autopsy, Wren’s blood-alcohol content was 0.362 percent, more than four times the legal limit to drive in Kansas.
Seeking punitive damages
Gorny said Wren’s family should be able to seek punitive damages in addition to actual damages in the case.
“Plaintiffs learned that defendants acted in a wanton manner with the complete disregard for the safety and well-being of Jason Wren prior to his death,” Gorny wrote. “Additionally, the defendants have continued a pattern of disregarding and failing to enforce fraternity rules and regulations and state law regarding alcohol consumption since Jason Wren’s death.”
Defendants in the case are the SAE Fraternal Association, Kansas Alpha House Corp., the SAE Fraternity and 10 chapter members, who are each identified as John Doe.
In his motion, Gorny claims a national fraternity spokesman publicly said SAE closed its internal investigation into Wren’s death after finding no criminal actions or negligence and calling it an “unfortunate, isolated incident.”
But Gorny cites documents and a deposition of Frank Ginocchio, general counsel for the national fraternity, that the investigation into Wren’s death showed numerous violations of risk management rules regarding underage drinking and “providing alcohol to a visibly intoxicated member.”
The Kansas chapter was required to pay an increased risk management premium and encouraged to implement at least a one-semester ban on alcohol in the chapter house, according to Gorny’s motion.
Gorny wrote that Ginocchio said president John Stacy and other members of the housing corporation, which owns the chapter house, twice decided against a recommendation to ban alcohol in the chapter house “in part because it was too harsh of a punishment and out of concern that the collegiate members would chose to rent another property and the housing corporation would lose its tenants.”
In his response, Seck, an attorney for the defendants, opposes Gorny’s motion for Wren’s family to seek punitive damages, saying state law does not allow it in a wrongful death suit.
Seck also stressed Gorny failed to mention the national fraternity only recommended prohibiting alcohol in the chapter house after the incident involving Wren’s death.
“There was no reason to prohibit alcohol consumption in the house prior to the incident, as there was no indication that alcohol consumption was a problem at the house,” Seck wrote. “Indeed, there were no prior occasions regarding alcohol consumption by minors at the house and there were no prior occasions where house members or guests necessitated medical care as a result of alcohol.”
2010 alcohol violation
After his son’s death, Jay Wren was a vocal critic of underage drinking, and after filing the suit, Gorny said the family was disappointed the fraternity did not take more steps on the issue.
In his recent motion, Gorny said documents show the national fraternity found the local SAE chapter committed an alcohol violation on April 10, 2010, by purchasing alcohol, including vodka, with chapter funds and provided it to pledges. The alcohol violation occurred six days before the fraternity and other organizations hosted an underage drinking seminar on campus, known as The Jason Wren Initiative.
“It’s tragic that it’s continuing to happen in that very same house,” Gorny said in an interview.
Seck said he does not discuss litigation with the media, but in his response to Gorny’s motion he wrote any behavior after the incident is “irrelevant to the mind-state” of defendants prior to the alleged conduct that caused Wren’s death and that the fraternity took proper disciplinary measures.
“The plaintiff cannot use events that occurred after the incident as a basis for punitive damages on the current claim,” Seck wrote. “The fact is, after the April 10, 2010, violation — which occurred after the Wren incident — 22 active members were expelled from the house.”
SAE members have spoken out before saying the chapter has changed since Wren’s death. Jeffrey Wilson, a KU senior and SAE member, wrote in an Oct. 27 letter published in the University Daily Kansan that in addition to enforcing existing rules on underage drinking, hard liquor is prohibited on the property and beer can only be consumed by members who are 21 or older.
A status conference in the Wren lawsuit with Douglas County District Judge Michael Malone is scheduled for 10:30 a.m. Wednesday. The trial is scheduled to begin April 25.
Among issues expected to be taken up in court Wednesday, Gorny is asking Malone for more time for the plaintiff to disclose expert witnesses in the case and conduct other depositions. He said the process has taken longer than originally thought due to other circumstances.
“Following Jason Wren’s death, Jason’s younger sister committed suicide. Tragically, months later, Jason’s mother Mary also took her own life,” Gorny wrote.
He also filed a motion to remove Mary Wren as a plaintiff and make Jay Wren the only one in the case.
Comments
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kansasredlegs (anonymous) says…
"possible future harm to more victims" - This is the victimization of America, it can't be my fault - I guess I didn't realize that drinking oneself to death was the fault of others. I'm sorry for your loss, but allowing 'your' attorney to call him a victim is misplaced and shows the level to which he will grovel for the almighty dollar.
Renaissance (anonymous) says…
wait.....are you trying to tell me that frat boys drink? I've heard some outlandish things in my day, but that one is just over the top.
ckennedy (christy kennedy) replies…
Yeah, duh. And why group of people in their right minds would kick a kid out of a dorm for violating the school's alcohol policy (and since so many do, it must have been serious), and in to a frat . . . ku residence people, parents, any adult should have known better. Any kid would have known better.
fu7il3 (anonymous) says…
Jeez, is this still going on? How is the frat that had this kid for one year more responsible for his poor choices than his dad who had him for eighteen? Somehow, other college kids, even frat guys, manage to make it through an entire college career in one piece. I haven't been seeing stories about the other kids in that frat drinking themselves to death.
I feel for the guy that a good chunk of his family is dead, but it is a result of their own actions, not someone else.
redcoalcarpet (anonymous) replies…
Because if the Dad had found his son in that condition he would have taken needed action to save his son's life. His "brothers" left him alone, they didn't do anything and should have!
zstoltenberg (anonymous) replies…
Not a year, a day. He had moved into the fraternity that morning after getting kicked out of the dorms for his third alcohol violation. This was not a fraternity issue, this was an alcoholic college student who was out of control and his parents knew it.
LarryNative (anonymous) replies…
You need to stop stating the facts otherwise we can't blame anyone but the individual and his parents and we all know that nobody is accountable for their own actions.
xclusive85 (anonymous) replies…
Don't know if his parents knew this. The school had a policy in place that the parents weren't notified of policy violations, even if the student was getting kicked out of the dorms, without the student's permission. There was a form to sign during orientation that would give the parents the right to be notified of these violations, as well as the students grades, etc. Obviously Jason did not sign the form. The policy has since been changed.
gsxr600 (anonymous) replies…
Yes it's called the FERPA. Most parents don't realize that their student is and ADULT and ASSUME they shall be granted any and all information they desire from the university, when clearly they have the right to nothing.
emaw (anonymous) says…
Why wasn't the dad a vocal critic of underage drinking when his son was kicked out of the dorms for drinking? That might've been a warning that the kid had a problem. Sounds like another sue happy situation.
redcoalcarpet (anonymous) replies…
If you will recall KU had (has?) a policy where they do not release any kind of information to a student's family, unless there is a signed release on file. IIRC the Wren's never knew the whole story about why Jason had been kicked out of the Oliver Residence Hall until after he had died.
Very, very sad! I cannot imagine one family enduring that much pain precipitated by one unfortunate event!
LarryNative (anonymous) replies…
Their son was kicked out of the dorm and were never told???? Did they try asking their own son why he was kicked out? Give me a break. Red, obviously you have no children and if you do, I fear for their safety if you are they type of parent whose child get's kicked out of any institution and you don't find it necessary to find out why.
amrose42683 (anonymous) replies…
Actually Red is correct. This was a former policy of KUs under confidentiality laws. Jason had to have been the one responsible for telling his parents what happened, not KU.
LarryNative (anonymous) replies…
Who said it was KU's responsibility? It's the parents responsibility to find out why your child was kicked out of the dorm is the point I was making.
Informed (anonymous) replies…
If I recall correctly, there were at least a few stories in which Jason's father said that he and his son had been drinking together a few times. Whether that was at a bar or a private party, I can't remember.
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seriouscat (anonymous) says…
Wow. I'm about to come under fire here but I can't believe the aloof 'too bad so sad' attitude. How do you people expect anything to change for the better if everything bad that happens to an individual or a family is 'all their fault'.
You sound like the people who used to say "well if a girl dresses like a slut and gets raped she was asking for it".
I'm not asking anyone to agree with me that it's possible that the culture of the fraternity is partly responsible for Jason's death. But how about trying to look at the situation with a bit more nuance to your perspective. The culture of any given institution has a lot to do with what kind of behavior goes on in it. If a business has rampant problems with sexual harassment, it's not just each individual who commits the act who is responsible, the business is also responsible because it is an institution and therefore has more influence over its members behavior than other individuals.
If there is a pattern of behavior present in the frat house that is conducive to people drinking dangerous amounts of alcohol, then the frat house is liable for allowing that pattern to continue and further endangering people's lives. Even if someone has a pattern of drinking too much before becoming a member, the institution itself condoned and perpetuated it.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
seriouscat (anonymous) replies…
I think part of the problem is this incessant need to place "blame" in the first place. This isn't kindergarten. The other part of the problem is the tendency for people like you to immediately label any perspective you disagree with or don't understand with as insane or stupid.
I'm attempting to look at this case from a less black and white perspective because I think sometimes that can be helpful in finding new areas where change can be mandated for good.
There are many many factors in every person's life that affect their behavior, and it could be argued that the institutions in which we socialize as young people are some of the most powerful. Are the parents the primary? Of course! Is an individual the ultimate? Of frickin course! Is that the end of the story? Depends on how you choose to perceive the world.
I see institutions in our society getting away with a lot of bad behavior because of the view that each of us is an island and everything we do is our responsibility alone.
I don't know enough about the facts of this particular case to say either way...if it's true that Jason moved in the very morning of his death then I agree the SAE house bears no liability. But it sickens me that the general attitude is that 'obviously this kid and his family were messed up and the frat house had nothing to do with it'. There is more to it than that not only from my perspective, but from the trend in laws against institutionally sanctioned negative behaviors (sexual harrassment being the most obvious).
seriouscat (anonymous) replies…
"Most experts acknowledge that college drinking by itself is a complicated problem. A 1993 national survey of college students by Harvard researchers found that nearly half (45%) of males and more than a third (36%) of females engage in binge drinking. But among Greek students, the numbers are higher: 86% of fraternity members and 80% of sorority members living in chapter houses are likely to engage in binge drinking. When alcohol-related accidents occur, hazing — essentially being pressured to engage in some sort of initiation rite — often turns out to be a contributing factor"
---from UDA today article in 2002. How many people have died since then? In light of this fact...Is it possible that Jason was actually being encouraged to drink more on the night of his death?
notajayhawk (anonymous) replies…
That the percentage is higher in fraternities than the general college population doesn't prove anything. It's a correlation. It's just as likely that the kids that party more join frats than it is that frats cause more partying.
This kid had three violations while still living in the dorm. I don't think his one day in the dorm caused him to drink.
The_Big_B (anonymous) replies…
*The culture of any given institution has a lot to do with what kind of behavior goes on in it.*
Oh, kind of like the culture of corruption in KU Athletics that let the underlings go wild stealing and selling tickets, because the guys at the top were skimming their hearts out too? I think we can see that kind of thing.
Sorry for the partial-sarcasm ... I agree with you that bad individual behavior is more likely to happen, and more likely to have dire consequences, in an institution where bad behavior is so much the norm that it goes unnoticed by others in that institution .... whether it be people stealing stuff and selling it, or a guy drowning in alcohol.
Whether that amounts to "legal responsibility" or not, I don't know. It is, though, undoubtedly true.
Jacks_Smirking_Revenge (anonymous) says…
It is sad that the kid died because this could have been prevented by the parents as emaw suggested. Instead of seeking help for the student, the family allowed him to join a fraternity. While I'll be the first to stand and fight for fraternities as a great college experience offering a wide range of positive choices, I'll also admit that they are more apt to socialization that involves alcohol. Because of this poor choice, the family is now seeking a suit against a group out of grief and the chance at financial retribution for a mistake they could have avoided.
tl;dr: Should have skipped SAE and gone to the other lettered organization AA.
Phogfan86 (anonymous) says…
This kid's family needs to stop it and take a good hard look in the mirror. His behaviors and choices were locked into place long before he became an SAE.
rodentgirl16 (anonymous) replies…
This kid's only living family is his dad seeing how his mom and sister committed suicide. How tragic and heartbreaking. All over a stupid beverage.
Phogfan86 (anonymous) replies…
Did Dad sue people over those deaths, as well?
Sorry, but beyond being a dad myself who can't imagine what life would be like without my kids, I can't feel sympathy in his quest to benefit monetarily. If he was truly concerned about change at the SAE house, he'd either be working with the SAE leadership to educate them and affect change or, if he's feeling litigious, he'd be suing for $1.
rodentgirl16 (anonymous) replies…
I can't even imagine. If my family died in this manner, I'm not sure I could even get out of bed. What he should do is award any monetary damages to people whose families were killed by drunk drivers. I agree though; no amount of money in the world will bring his family back. This poor man...
zstoltenberg (anonymous) says…
Mr. Wren and the LJWorld have worked very hard to make this a fraternity issue when it absolutely is not. I was in a fraternity and many of my friends were in fraternities. Yes there was drinking, almost as much as when I lived on daisy hill. There were absolutely no drugs, though there were plenty when I lived in the dorms, and there was always oversight, never the case in Templin. Jason was not a fraternity member. He had been kicked out of the dorms for drinking too damn much and moved into the fraternity that morning. I don't care where he moved, you can bet his pattern of behavior would have shown him to go out and party it up that he was no longer in the dorms. They could have very easily found him dead in an apartment the next morning instead of a fraternity room.
This case should absolutely be about what led up to this event and I would argue that Jason was on the path to self destruction long before that evening. There were multiple facebook pictures of him and his dad out at the bars before a fall football game, both with a beer in hand. His dad knew he drank, probably even bought it for him. More often than naught, this pattern of behavior was manifest even when he was in high school. He didn't move to KU and say "now that I'm a Jayhawk, I think I'll become an alcoholic."
The bottom line is, Jay Wren is angry. He's regretful and sorry that he forgot to be a father while his son spiraled out of control. He's angry he lost his daughter to the fallout, and his wife over the deaths of two kids. But he's not angry at the fraternity, he's angry at himself, for not doing what he should have while he still had the chance. There is a lesson to be learned from these deaths, be your kids parent, not their best friend. This wasn't the fraternity or the Greek system's fault. It wasn't a corrupt culture of college drinking. It was a plain and simple lack of parenting. I don't care if my kids hate me for not letting them go to that awesome party that everyone is going to. I'll make sure they live through that night.
dulcinea47 (anonymous) replies…
Well said.
cheeseburger (anonymous) replies…
Very well said!
somedude20 (anonymous) says…
money money money mon-ney
People rarely look inward when bad things happen but they always find someone to blame. I feel for the father as he lost his son but his son was to blame for his own actions. I believe the son went drinking (underage) at a Mexican restaurant and then beers and a fair amount of vodka.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
Solomon (anonymous) says…
If I remember correctly, this is the dad who said he knew his son drank in high school, but only drank with the "good kids." I, too, empathize with his loss, but he really needs to look in the mirror when trying to find fault.
kernal (anonymous) says…
Seems evident the son had a drinking problem, but it was not going to be a problem for him until he was ready to admit to it and of course he did not live that long. Alcoholism is a genetic tendency. Mr. Wren needs to take a good hard look at himself as he is on the way to hitting bottom and it will be a hard fall.
MrMEtoo (anonymous) replies…
The fraternity should be held accountable for the drinking issue through KU Greek oversight or its own oversight. If that oversight is not adequate then call that in to question! Hounding a fraternity for money for every single slip up (its a standard large university drinking fraternity, like any other, there will be more slip ups) is an endless and petty direction to go down.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
notajayhawk (anonymous) replies…
Alright, LJW moderators, what in creation was wrong with *THAT* post for pity's sake?
Your story mentioned that the young man had two first-degree relatives who committed suicide. I merely pointed out that some forms of depression are hereditary, and that Jason Wren may have also suffered from depression that contributed to his drinking. This is what I do for a living, and I was attempting to be informative. I would seriously like to know just what on earth any of that constituted a "violation of the usage agreement".
The post I responded to mentioned a hereditary link in alcoholism. What was the implication of *THAT* statement, that somehow *MINE* was removed and his is still there?
sissezz (anonymous) says…
sadly its all to Easy to get Alcohol in Lawrence if u are a minor...... Where are the parents??? And yeah i know what im talkin about....i have two teens. Thank god they are good and thank god i have enough brains to keep an eye on them
ylime3499 (anonymous) says…
My thoughts go out to you Mr. Wren. I am so sorry for your loses. If you do read these comments do not let them bring you down. No one understands what you're going through. I can't imagine you would wish the amount of heart ache you're going through on anyone, but I am finding it hard not to for some of the humans who commented on here.
Good luck to you with the rest of your life indeed it will be a struggle every day.
ylime3499 (anonymous) says…
No where did I read that Mr. Wren was putting all the blame on anyone or any organization ... are the horrible comments being written, because the reporter didn't interview him directly to see if he truly feels one "thing" is to blame? Not a single one of you knows the amount of pain he is going through, for all you know he does blame himself entirely but it eases the pain to realize he's not the only one at fault.
We are all humans, and parents do make mistakes. For those that are saying they would have done something differently I dare you to tell us the worst thing that ever happened to your child that was your fault ... or have you never done anything wrong?
Casey_Jones (anonymous) replies…
Did you miss the part where he's suing the fraternity? I think that's what people object to.
ylime3499 (anonymous) replies…
Yes, I read that... did you read my first few words that no where does it mention him putting all the blame on the fraternity... yes he's suing them, because they were part of the problem. No where did he say he wasn't part of it.
StirrrThePot (anonymous) says…
Following Jason Wren’s death, Jason’s younger sister committed suicide. Tragically, months later, Jason’s mother Mary also took her own life,” Gorny wrote.
****************
WOW. This is so tragic I cannot express adequate words. My heart breaks for Jay Wren and his family. I am so sorry to read this.
Kontum1972 (anonymous) says…
so why hasnt the national organization not pulled their charter and closed down the fraternity, why hasnt the Pan-Hellelllenic counsel of fraternities nationally weighted in on this, and their alumni base?
who runs the show?
LarryNative (anonymous) replies…
Because the fraternity has nothing to do with the death. This person got drunk at a local Mexican restaurant, went to a liquor store, bought a bottle of liquor and then consumed it alone in his room. Do you want the powers to be pull the liquor license from the retaurant, pull the license from the liquor store, pull the distributors license, then pull the license from the distillery and then shut down the farm that sold the corn?
Unfortunately, this man chose to drink the alsohol on his own and as a result, he died. No one is at fault but the individual who purchased and drank the alcohol.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
He was underage.
So the restaurant that served him liquor and the liquor store that sold him liquor are partially at fault.
And if the fraternity saw him in a bad situation and did nothing (like call for help), then I think they are also partially at fault.
Kids who are 18-21 are in a sort of in-between stage, between childhood and adulthood, and often make bad decisions - I think we should be teaching them to make good ones, and holding them accountable for their bad ones.
But he doesn't learn anything from drinking himself to death.
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
The father should have never allowed the kid to move into the fraternity let alone go drinking with him on the weekend he moved in. What is done is done.
My comment to the tather if I had a chance to sit down with him would be the same comment as my late aunt made to me about my cousin's death in Viet Nam.
She said "we were very lucky to have his whole body come home".
Neither she nor my late uncle blamed anyone!
They had the child's whole body. Mr. Wren, be grateful you did as well.
SFBayhawk (anonymous) says…
Sorry, Mr. Wren, looking in the mirror is real tough.
tao7 (anonymous) says…
“Indeed, there were no prior occasions regarding alcohol consumption by minors at the house and there were no prior occasions where house members or guests necessitated medical care as a result of alcohol.” That's because they didn't get caught not because they didn't do it. I've known members of SAE and it's a party house, always has been.
purplesage (anonymous) says…
I am certainly glad for redcoalcarpet's voice of moderation. I am not surprised by the insensitivity being expressed. Did you people even read what has happened to the Wren famil!!!??? Their son goes off to college, goes on a drinking rampage, but no one advises the parents. Then, the son dies after a night of encouragement to drink, if not actively by the frat brothers, certainly passively by the environment. Then his sister suicides, followed by his mother - and you are audacious enough to criticize the surviving family member for seeking some remedy and for speaking up. Enough already.
LarryNative (anonymous) replies…
Maybe he sould sue you since you don't care who the family is wrongfully suing. You are about as guilty as the fraternity.
Vinny1 (anonymous) says…
This guy needs to let it go.
The only people at fault are him, and his son. He took and drank with his son at a bar a couple weeks before he died. He knew his son had and used a fake ID.
He knew his son got kicked out of the dorms. He let him join and move into a frat. His son had drinking problems all the way back to high school at home.
To try and blame and ruin anyone else is just a reflection on how little he actually cares about his sons death. He is just now trying to get money out of it. He isn't actually helping anything.
If this guy gets any amount of money it is a complete failure by the governmental systems.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
missmagoo (anonymous) says…
"Following Jason Wren’s death, Jason’s younger sister committed suicide. Tragically, months later, Jason’s mother Mary also took her own life,” Gorny wrote.
What a nightmare. Mr. Wren, regardless of the suit and how it ends up, my heart goes out to you for all you've endured. I think we could all agree losing your entire family is pretty much everyone's worst nightmare.
Vinny1 (anonymous) replies…
Very sad yes. But why should Mr. Wren be rewarded for HIS SON's wrongdoing?
No one else made his son drink. Its his own fault. To try and continue to blame all of this on everyone else is just plain stupid. Mr. Wren needs to move on with life.
missmagoo (anonymous) replies…
I don't disagree with you Vinny. I think this whole thing is just looking for someone to blame. The kid made a choice to drink and he went through illegal channels to do so. It just seems like this is his outlet to deal with his grief, which is sad. I just can't imagine losing my entire family, that's all I was trying to say.
justanotherface (anonymous) says…
The story of what's happened to this family is very tragic. Mr. Wren has my sympathies there.
However, to blame anyone else for this young man's death is ridiculous. College kids drink, that's nothing new and will never change. When I was a KU student, we drank a lot, not because we were pressured into it, but because we WANTED to. And whenever something stupid happened because of it, we didn't blame other people because it was OUR choice. Today's society is way too quick to blame everyone except themselves and I'm afraid that's what's going on here. IF this father was out at the bars taking pictures with his son a few weeks before this happened, he already knew about his son's behavior and was encouraging it. It's not the frat's fault this young man is dead now, it's the young man's fault.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
Really?
There are many students who seem to drink and drive, and if anything happens, they flee the scene.
When you were younger and drinking, you took full responsibility for everything you did while drunk?
I'm sorry, but that's hard to believe.
justanotherface (anonymous) replies…
Yeah really! i didn't drink and drive; I didn't wreck my car and/or kill a pedestrian and flee the scene. We had fun drinking, but we weren't wreckless barbarians like you wanna believe. I've also grown up to be a law abiding, tax paying, hard working citizen pulling my own weight in this socialist country we're living in.
College kids party so get used to it, and not all of them are bad kids or alcoholics. And I do accept responsibility for my own actions and it's just too damn bad that the rest of society doesn't abide by the same belief! Some of you people that wanna blame everything else on others make me sick.
jafs (anonymous) replies…
So you paid for any property damage, cleaned up your own mess, etc., never left broken beer bottles on other people's property, etc.?
Never played music so loudly that it bothered your neighbors, never took a leak on a public street, etc.?
I guess you just drank a lot, sat and talked quietly to each other.
Please!
And, I don't think one should blame everything else on anybody else.
justanotherface (anonymous) replies…
I didn't damage anyone's property and whoever throws the party is in charge of cleaning up. By the way, all the beer cans and bottles from my parties were recycled afterwards :)
And when my neighbors played loud music, we didn't turn them in because we knew we'd be playing loud music at our next party. That's just called college courtesy.
akt2 (anonymous) says…
It's a bunch of crap. He wasn't drinking alone. You'd think that out of all the college educated participants, that someone would have checked on him or dialed 911. Were they all so drunk that they couldn't see straight? I hope they graduate with an ounce of common sense. Maybe the next time, and there will be a next time, someone will have enough sense to notice what could happen. When you've seen a teenager or college aged, alcohol intoxicated, kid intubated because they can't breathe on their own, you can appreciate the possibility that they don't have to die. And you can appreciate the fact that someone had the sense to get help.
notajayhawk (anonymous) says…
As I've stated above, I don't think the fraternity is to blame for the death of this young man. But for pete's sake, people, give his father a break. He lost his son, his wife, and his daughter. That is an absolutely unbelievable amount of grief for a single human being to have to endure. A normal part of the grieving process is anger, because it's a very powerful emotion that is often the only thing that can fend off the absolute despair. Unfortunately, that anger usually needs a target, which is why it always looks like the survivors are trying to push the blame onto someone.
He may not be justified in suing the fraternity, but can you all please have a little consideration for everything he's going through, and why he might be doing what he's doing?
7texdude (anonymous) says…
The fraternity did play a role in Jason's death. Stop saying that it did not. Yes, Mr. Wren drank too much that night, but his frat brothers never tried to stop an underage drinker. Even better, they did not stop someone from getting hammered right after he moved into the house because of three drinking violations in the dorm. I thought frat guys were supposed to look out for each other, right?
If I recall in the original story, Mr. Wren went to the Mexican restaurant, drank there and then walked around the frat holding and drinking a bottle of whiskey. He bragged that he never throws up. Any time some guy - stranger or friend in high school or college to adult- ever told me that, it would turn into a circus.
I also understand that his frat brothers kept forcing him back to bed after he passed out. They did not allow him to get to the bathroom. They did not take him to the hospital or call 911. If someone calls a doctor or takes him to the ER, Jason Wren is alive today. Period. Simple as that. There is no argument in this statement.
I don't know Jay Wren, but I feel for him. He has a right to demand that KU check into this and stop something else from happening. You know, like a swimming pool/high dive accident on campus.
It is about responsibility. Yes, Jason was responsible for drinking himself to death. His fraternity was responsible for not getting him medical attention. Jay Wren's pain is still there. It will always be there. Just like alcohol and binge drinking will always be here at KU. Hopefully, it won't be at that frat house again. That is not too much to ask.
notajayhawk (anonymous) says…
"his frat brothers never tried to stop"
"they did not stop"
"They did not take him to the hospital"
I've been to the occasional stage play, and never seen an actor credited with 'playing a role' for *not* doing anything. What they did *not* do is not the same thing as 'playing a role'. If you didn't give me $1,000, you did not play a role in my poverty. If you did not stop to help me change a tire, you did not cause my car to be broken down. The young man had just moved in that day and led them to believe he was a major-league drinker. They were supposed to know how, again, that he couldn't handle that much?
"I also understand that his frat brothers kept forcing him back to bed after he passed out. "
Um - after he passed out, he wouldn't have been trying to get out of bed to get to the bathroom.
"If someone calls a doctor or takes him to the ER, Jason Wren is alive today. Period. Simple as that. There is no argument in this statement."
So you're a doctor, then? What was his blood alcohol content? What is the cause of death from acute alcohol poisoning? How long did they have to get him to the hospital, and what is the average response time for an ambulance, and subsequent transport to the hospital? What treatment would have been performed?
"It is about responsibility. Yes, Jason was responsible for drinking himself to death. His fraternity was responsible for not getting him medical attention."
If he had not drunk himself to death, there would have been no reason for them to call for medical attention.
"Hopefully, it won't be at that frat house again."
Then it will be somewhere else. I came very close to ending up exactly like Mr. Wren when I was young and stupid and in college. I didn't live in a frat house, it happened when I was living in the dorm. Directly across the hall from the RA's room. You can blame it on the frat all you want for not saving him - it still boils down to his own choices and his own actions that caused his death, he would not have *needed* saving if not for those.
cheeseburger (anonymous) says…
Mr. Wren taught his son to be a boozer, and now that something has gone tragically wrong, he wants to blame someone else. Sorry - the responsibility lies solely with Jay Wren's parenting and Jason Wren's behavior.
I do feel for Jay in the loss of his entire family, but as a previous poster noted, he has lost his two children and wife - all over a stupid beverage. How pathetic is that?
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
And as my aunt said, her only comments losing her son in Vietnam was "we were lucky to have his whole body come home".
He is buried beside his mother and his father who blamed no one.