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Letters to the Editor

Harsh history

May 29, 2010

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To the editor:

Regulating immigration is a function of the federal government, not of border states like Arizona. Congress should promptly pass an immigration law permitting about 12 million undocumented Hispanics, mostly Mexicans, to become U.S. citizens. Many are doing very useful, hard work that few U.S. citizens care to do. Mexico should also be accorded a generous annual immigration quota.

Mexicans have a moral right to U.S. citizenship because the United States by aggression grabbed about two-fifths of Mexico’s territory in the 1830s and 1840s. Mexico did not have slavery, but southern frontiersmen and slave-owning planters occupied Texas and, by 1836, defeated Mexican forces and established the independent Republic of Texas. In 1845, Texas was admitted to the United States as a slave state.

Wanting to annex Mexican territory, President Polk got Congress to declare war against Mexico in 1845. The U.S. military conquered most of what is today New Mexico, Arizona and Colorado, as well as all of California, Nevada and Utah, a huge land grab. In the peace treaty, the United States did pay Mexico a paltry $15 million for her terrible loss.

Mexican President Felipe Calderon’s recent visit to Washington as President Obama’s guest may well mark the start of a close cooperation between Mexico and the United States to solve mutual problems. These problems, including drugs and guns, will not be solved by border states copying Arizona’s immigration law!

John Bond,

Lawrence

Comments

Liberty_One 4 years, 7 months ago

"Mexicans have a moral right to U.S. citizenship because..."

I thought this was going to be sarcasm but I couldn't find the punchline. Is this guy serious? Now I'm all in favor of immigration, but a moral right to be US citizens? It'll be interesting to see if anyone defends this LTE's argument.

beatrice 4 years, 7 months ago

I thought for sure your response would be that it should be determined by the free marketplace. If people are here to work, shouldn't they be allowed to work? Isn't that what the marketplace requires? Why does your idea of the free market have borders?

Just askin'.

beatrice 4 years, 7 months ago

migrant farming ... at least not enough American citizens to get the job done.

cato_the_elder 4 years, 7 months ago

The letter writer couldn't have written a better propaganda piece for the Mexican elite who have blathered forever that California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas belong to Mexico. Anyone calling himself an American who would would submit this kind of perverted revisionism to a reputable newspaper ought to be ashamed.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

Mexican elites? WTF are you talking about?

It doesn't take a Mexican, elite or otherwise, to rightly point out that all or parts of New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, California, Nevada, Texas and Utah were seized in unprovoked wars of aggression.

George Lippencott 4 years, 7 months ago

Really? Interesting intrepretation.

I might point out that by your apparent definition so were all the rest of our states.

George Lippencott 4 years, 7 months ago

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) replies… Yep-- what's your point?

That maybe our fracas with Mexico is just part of a larger mosaic and not a cause to open our borders to anyone??

independant1 4 years, 7 months ago

Author obviously exudes usa = bad all other countries = good

We have the right to determine who can come into this country, or shall we let S. American, Asian, African, Europeon countries decide who, under what conditions and how many can come here?

No nation ever had two better friends than we have. You know who they are? The Atlantic and Pacific oceans. (Will Rogers)

md 4 years, 7 months ago

Aztecs not only had slaves but also practiced human sacrifice.

tomatogrower 4 years, 7 months ago

Another history moron. The Aztec's had been defeated more than 300 years before Texas declared it's independence. Go back to school.

John Hamm 4 years, 7 months ago

One or two small problems in this LTE. 1) The Federal Government has NOT provided the necessary manpower, etc. to reduce, let alone halt, illegal immigration across the Mexican border - nor of other entry points for illegal immigrants of other nationalities. If the responsible party does not perform as it should it becomes a mandate for other legitimate governmental bodies to take up the slack. 2) Mexican citizens have a "moral right" to US citizenship!? Sorry but that's really not logically supported or correct. No one has a "moral" right to citizenship. You have a right granted by the US Constitution if a native born American and certain rights allocated to you to become a citizen if you aren't.

jayhawklawrence 4 years, 7 months ago

It is scary to think that there are more people that think this way and some of them are actually teachers in a public school somewhere.

Our political leaders have let this problem get so bad that we now have people in the country wanting to overthrow our government and give land back to Mexico.

If the bad guys weren't so busy selling drugs in Mexico they would be forming terror cells along our borders right now and starting a new kind of terrorist threat.

Anybody protesting the Arizona law is just getting duped. We have chaos on our border.

We have laws. They have not been enforced. Now we are going to have to put up with the politicians just using the issue to better themselves.

Where are the Texas Rangers and Wyatt Earp when you need them? Let's just hire more cops.

geekin_topekan 4 years, 7 months ago

THe GOP would like to rewrite the constitution to fit their liking? Abolish the civil rights laws and reinstate slavery and make the AMerican dream open to the white male only...again.

jayhawklawrence 4 years, 7 months ago

What I hate about this situation is that law abiding American citizens of hispanic origin are going to be used in all kinds of ways. They are going to become the ping pong ball in all of this. Used by politiicians, confused by propaganda, discriminated against by narrow minded people and denied opportunities they deserve because we did not enforce laws that were put in place for the sake of maintaining an orderly system of government.

Reasonable laws that would have prevented chaos were not enforced by irresponsible politiicians.

Now we have thousands of people wasting a lot of time and money when they should be doing something productive.

I think it is time to get rid of a lot of people in our congress and get some new people who have stronger character and values than the ones that got us into this mess.

Liberty275 4 years, 7 months ago

romptly pass an immigration law permitting about 12 million undocumented Hispanics, mostly Mexicans, to become U.S. citizens

Amnesty for 12 million every 10 years isn't very good immigration policy. No amnesty ever.

Mexicans have a moral right to U.S. citizenship because the United States by aggression grabbed about two-fifths of Mexico’s territory in the 1830s and 1840s.

Losing wars has consequences. That's why you try to not lose.

This is about as dumb as rand wanting to dump the constitution.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

"Losing wars has consequences. That's why you try to not lose."

So let me get this straight-- it really doesn't matter who starts a war, or for what purpose-- as long as you win?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

Here's a news flash for you-- if you never get into wars, you never lose them.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

Just say "no."

We're currently mired in two wars that were completely unnecessary, except as a way for the warmonger element to make the world safe for war.

tomatogrower 4 years, 7 months ago

The law is unconstitutional, period. If you would grant citizenship to all who are in the country now, and up the quota, making it easier to immigrate legally or get a work visa, then you could shoot anyone coming across the border illegally, because they are probably doing something more than looking for a job. They are either a terrorist or a drug smuggler looking to feed the habits of pathetic, whiney Americans who can't deal with real life, you know that supply demand thing. Let's simplify border control.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

The day after Mexico gives up control of its borders, we should consider doing the same thing. Until then, be legal or be gone.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

"The day after Mexico gives up control of its borders,"

You or I could drive down there tomorrow, and with almost no difficulty, drive our cars across the border, go anywhere in the country, and probably stay however long we like.

And you know all the gang warfare going on down there? Almost all of the weaponry was smuggled over the border from the US.

tomatogrower 4 years, 7 months ago

And the gang warfare is over who controls the drug trade to feed sicko American's drug habits. A good anti drug commercial would be "Snorting coke is snorting human blood" or "Shooting up heroin is shooting up human blood". They could make really graphic images too. It might turn off some users. Dry up the demand, and the supply side will have to find different illegal means of making a living.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

It's naive at best to think that Mexico has any sort of border policy that deserves emulation. If the reasons that migrants need to cross borders are not addressed, iron-fisted immigration policies are not only unsustainable, but in the end, ineffective.

http://www.coha.org/mexicos-other-border-issues-affecting-mexico’s-dividing-line-with-guatemala/

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

You're right-- E. Germany was very effective at controlling its borders, in both directions. We should just do what they did.

I mean, It worked out OK for them, right?

George Lippencott 4 years, 7 months ago

Really? Some weapons have been traced to the US. The rest, who knows. The cartels are not comperating in the research.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 7 months ago

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/28/AR2007102801654.html

"The high-powered guns used in both incidents on the evening of Sept. 24 undoubtedly came from the United States, say police here, who estimate that 100 percent of drug-related killings are committed with smuggled U.S. weapons."

"The U.S. weapons -- as many as 2,000 enter Mexico each day, according to a Mexican government study -- are crucial tools in an astoundingly barbaric war between rival cartels that has cost 4,000 lives in the past 18 months and sent law enforcement agencies in Washington and Mexico City into crisis mode."

George Lippencott 4 years, 7 months ago

Two groups of foreigners come to a new land. Both overrun the native culture. Inevitable they come into conflict. One prevails. Where is the moral superiority in this tale?

tomatogrower 4 years, 7 months ago

I'll bet there are a higher percentage of undocumented hispanics working harder than there are good old boy Americans.

Richard Heckler 4 years, 7 months ago

"Troops are not trained in law enforcement.

Hire 6000 unemployed americans instead to beef up immigration enforcement!

Train these people for long term employment.

It's time to replenish the enforcement numbers of our government agencies and put USA citizens back to work.

Sorry John the USA does not have the resources to employ the world.

The Global Economy sent 15 million of USA jobs to other countries...... what a contribution to the Global Economy???

tomatogrower 4 years, 7 months ago

Oh sorry, Tom. It was Merrill who was talking about replenishing jobs in the US. You are in favor of taking jobs out of the country. My eyes haven't had enough coffee yet.

tomatogrower 4 years, 7 months ago

But, Tom, that was all those mega corporations that you always say are wonderful. Aren't you rolling in dough, because you invest in all these companies who have taken the jobs out of the country? And isn't that their capitalist right to make profit any way they can? You are certainly getting your messages confused.

Richard Heckler 4 years, 7 months ago

"Reminds me when the last President of Mexico said we should just open our borders and pretty much make Mexico part of the US. "

Apparently that was Reagan/Bush thinking as well.

In fact that is still Bush type thinking only now Canada is part of the deal. Canadians however are very cool to the idea.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

"Canadians however are very cool to the idea." Oh, really? How's about a citation to someone in the Canadian government offering to give up control of their border?

jafs 4 years, 7 months ago

Cool to the idea means not in favor of it.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

"Regulating immigration is a function of the federal government, not of border states like Arizona." If the federal laws were being enforced, Arizona's new law would have been unnecessary.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

Here's a poser, America is horrible, evil and wicked for wanted to control who comes into the country; Cuba, on the other hand, is a paradise of freedom while Cuban citizens can't move from the country to Havana without government permission.

George Lippencott 4 years, 7 months ago

tomatogrower (anonymous) replies…

Corporations have a responsibility to make money for their share holders. Our "govrernment" is incentivizing them to go off shore and make more money. Me thinks you are not focusing on solutions but ranting about problems.

If we have social goals perhaps we should stop ranting at corporations and put them up to a vote for the people to endorse and pay to achieve. We did that with Mr. Obama. He has expanded social focus. Now we are beginning to run out of money (like Europe). Two questions?

  1. Did Mr. Obama focus on the right programs?
  2. From where is the money to pay for what he has already done coming

jafs 4 years, 7 months ago

I generally agree.

We need to stop allowing/rewarding companies for simply putting a little office in another country and transferring the profits there for tax breaks.

According to a recent report, we are losing about $60 billion/year in tax revenue from this scam.

sherlock 4 years, 7 months ago

ask Americans who reside near the border, about medical care too. Why is it that so many Mexican women illegally come to the US to deliver their babies? Of course, then they are legal Americans. Mama and Daddy can go back to Mexico if they want and draw Welfare for baby who is an American citizen, by rite of birth in say Tx, NM, Az, Ca! ASk the hospitals in south Tx. how many women seem to come in for deliveries? Who pays? Ahhhhh the taxpayers of the great USA. Yes this rule was written back in the days when they didnt come into our country by the 10,000 + illegally all! Our country was small, when the constitution was written!

George Lippencott 4 years, 7 months ago

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) replies… http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...

"The U.S. weapons -- as many as 2,000 enter Mexico each day, according to a Mexican government study -- are crucial tools in an astoundingly barbaric war between rival cartels that has cost 4,000 lives in the past 18 months ..."

Read the article - nothing new and not a primary source. It references a Mexican government study that I do not have - maybe you do. As I recall a response to the that study indicated that it did not address all weapons found but only weapons suspected of being from the US and turned over to US authorities to trace. Many were legal purchases. I stand on my "the cartels are not cooperating" comment. Surely some come from here and just as surely some do not.

Now, how does that play with the issues of illegal immigration? We sell knockoff soviet weapons to Mexican buyers. Somebody makes money. Because of that we should open our borders to anyone who wants to come here. I am having trouble following the logic??? By the by, there are I believe about 100 million AK47s in use in the world. If not here than somewhere else. By the by, we still limit sales of automatic weapons – you have to buy a kit to make versions of the AK 47 available here into a true an assault weapon.

Flap Doodle 4 years, 7 months ago

If you believe in this open borders nonsense, please post your address so I can come & camp out in your yard. I'll show up whenever I want and stay as long as I want. If I get sick while camping in your yard, you will have to pay for my medical care. If my girlfriend has a baby while we are in your yard, then we can stay there forever. Doesn't that sound like jolly fun?

jafs 4 years, 7 months ago

It's "our" yard, not Mexico's, and it's not big enough for everyone.

Jaylee 4 years, 7 months ago

This is all assuming you're currently an illegal immigrant?

No, but if you were already fixing my tractor, rebuilding the old blacksmith house, reroofing the house, recarpeting the floor, and your girlfriend was making my food and taking care of my daughter while I ran errands or went to work, then your child became friends with mine, I would think it was cool if Mexico got added onto the U.S. and you didn't have to hide the fact that you were all there anymore and could have an easier time establishing your family. Also, we could finally go out together, bud! Just like we always talked about, you in broken English, me in broken Spanish. AWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See? You didn't even sell drogas in the first place!

independent_rebel 4 years, 7 months ago

I say we load up the northern border or Mexico with an endless supply of alcohol and load up the ones who stop to drink and get wasted onto planes and then drop them off at the U.S.- Canadian border, so when they wake up they cross over into Canada.

independant1 4 years, 7 months ago

Finally!!! An alternate solution is on the table.

Needs a little tweaking though.

independant1 4 years, 7 months ago

threaten to bus all illegals already here to canada. all new illegals get the i_r treatment.

buy buses and sell tickets south for those who get cold feet

a good capitalistic trick if you ask me

md 4 years, 7 months ago

Tomato-the way I took it was this person meant mexicans had never practied slavery. Well they have. As far as schooling goes my degree is in history.

independant1 4 years, 7 months ago

In the brute world there is no justice/fairness.

To the winners go the spoils. The losing side always suffers, the horror/injustice of the vanquished.

We (USA) after winning have record - we lift up our adversaries. Europe/Japan/Phillipines and yes American Native Tribes. We conquer, rebuild and leave (yeah we have Europe/Japan bases, we're still there) Some have fared better than others. My cherokee blood family do quite well thank you, no millionaires but do quite well and consider ourselves Americans of varying percentages of Indian blood. We serve in the military proudly, we're on the side of the good guys. Some full blood some like me with just a drop.

Indiginous people... from members of fully sovereign nations, to dependents of the U.S. government, to holders of a quasi dual-citizenship

Read more: http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2006/November/20061106163901bpuh0.5341455.html#ixzz0pPhn6w3K

Vietnam, if they'd capitulated one could argue, would be in better economic shape today. Second worst economy in world. Lose to the USA and we'll set you up dude. Where would they be if Uncle Ho had said, I surrender? We'd still be pumping money into that economy.

independant1 4 years, 7 months ago

At twenty a man is full of fight and hope. He wants to reform the world. When he is seventy he still wants to reform the world, but he knows he can't. (Rodney Dangerfield)

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