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Archive for Wednesday, March 10, 2010

State smoking ban will prohibit some outdoor smoking at Lawrence businesses

New law makes it illegal to smoke within a 10-foot radius of a doorway

Robert Knapp, Lawrence, left, and David Olcott, Lawrence, smoke Wednesday outside the entrance to Henry’s Coffee Shop, 11 E. Eighth St. A statewide smoking ban approved recently will likely make it illegal to smoke in many of the sidewalk dining and drinking areas in downtown Lawrence.

Robert Knapp, Lawrence, left, and David Olcott, Lawrence, smoke Wednesday outside the entrance to Henry’s Coffee Shop, 11 E. Eighth St. A statewide smoking ban approved recently will likely make it illegal to smoke in many of the sidewalk dining and drinking areas in downtown Lawrence.

March 10, 2010, 12:13 p.m. Updated March 10, 2010, 6:07 p.m.

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Statewide smoking ban coming soon

Lawrence businesses will soon have a new, statewide smoking ban to get used to. Enlarge video

A recently approved statewide smoking ban likely will make it illegal to smoke in many of the sidewalk dining and drinking areas in downtown.

A provision in the state law — scheduled to be signed by the governor on Friday — makes it illegal to smoke within a 10-foot radius of a doorway. Lawrence’s smoking ban has no such provision, and the city’s top attorney said she has not yet found any way for Lawrence to exempt itself from the new provision.

“Certainly we’re going to have to comply with the state law,” said Toni Wheeler, the city’s director of legal services. “It does differ from our ordinance. I think there will be changes on the horizon.”

The law changes are scheduled to begin July 1.

Wheeler stressed that she is not yet done with her review of the statewide ban, but she said a preliminary look indicates several sidewalk dining areas in downtown could be impacted.

In some cases, if a business’ doorway is in the middle of its storefront, the 10-foot radius requirement would make virtually all of the sidewalk dining area off limits to smoking. In other cases, some businesses may be allowed to keep portions of their sidewalk seating areas open to smokers, depending on the placement of their doors and the doors of neighboring businesses.

But many in the bar and restaurant industry are concerned, noting that there are a lot of doors in downtown.

“It definitely will have an impact on business,” said Subarna Bhattachan, who is a co-owner of La Parrilla, Zen Zero and Genovese — which all three have sidewalk seating areas. “Technically, I’m not sure where anybody is really going to be able to smoke in downtown.”

Several downtown bar owners did not return phone calls seeking comment. But a Lawrence-based lobbyist for the industry said the changes are coming at a time when consumers already are staying at home more and spending less at bars.

“It will be punitive,” said Phil Bradley, executive director of the Kansas Licensed Beverage Association. “It is hurting a group that already is hurting.”

Several physicians on Wednesday praised the changes. Dr. Steven Bruner, who helped organize the effort to create Lawrence’s ban in 2004, said the ban on smoking near doorways is consistent with what other bans across the country have done.

“The benefit of the provision is so you don’t have to walk through a cloud of smoke to enter and leave a business,” Bruner said.

He said he believed the public would accept the new outside provisions, especially as data continues to roll in showing that communities with strong smoking bans have lower rates of heart incidents.

“This is a huge step forward,” Bruner said. “We were a little remiss in not including this provision in the local ban from the beginning. It would have been better for the businesses, so they could have planned for it from the beginning.”

The state change does come just months after Lawrence city commissioners relaxed rules to allow some bars to have sidewalk seating areas. Previously, only restaurants could have the sidewalk areas.

The state law changes are expected to impact more than just the downtown areas. Other potential impacts include:

• Smoking decks at bars and restaurants also will have to meet the 10 foot requirement. The city’s current law allows such decks to be 80 percent enclosed and still qualify as a smoking deck. The new state law will require they be no more than 70 percent enclosed.

• An exemption allowing smoking in a specially ventilated break room at Hallmark’s Lawrence production facility likely will not be allowed under the state law, Wheeler said.

• In the city code, hotels currently can designate 25 percent of their rooms as open for smoking. The state code would cap that level at 20 percent.

City commissioners are expected to receive a report in the next several weeks on what changes the city will need to make to its law to comply with the new state law. The state law specifically does not allow any city to have a law that is less strict than the state’s.

Comments

beobachter 4 years, 1 month ago

mutt, you are still hiding and ranting. What is the name of the business you supposedly own? And where and when did you get your law degree that makes you such an expert on this issue?

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kansasmutt 4 years, 1 month ago

sillypeople ) You are another lemming control freak, go back to CO. The smoking ban is a big joke and illegal as hel! . Fire codes, licenses , those are not even on the same page as this ban. This ban is a group of lemmings who wants to make Kansas like California and have total control. You do not have enough brain in your head to even read and decide to stay away from a business that allows smoking and has a SIGN to warn you. CHOICE is a simple idea that keeps us alive in our every day struggles. As written, this new law is illegal. If it restricted doorways , schools with children and had been written with allowance for businesses to put up signs warning people( smoking allowed ) and some other changes, it would be legal. As written, it is worthless and will be settled in court. ::::::: Any business can be smoke free if they want, any business can be smoker friendly if they want. They can put up a sign, that is called CHOICE . If this law is signed today, i will put up a smoker friendly sign July 1 2010. I will allow smoking in my business. You then have a choice to shop smoke free or come to my business and enjoy a smoke and shop. I am going to file a suit next week if this bill is signed. End of story.

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tubs_of_love 4 years, 1 month ago

Whats next, a state wide fart ban?

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sillypeople 4 years, 1 month ago

I'm tired of the argument that private businesses should be allowed to do whatever they want in their business. If this was even a valid argument then they should be arguing against liquor licenses and fire codes also. As far as I know, these are things that protect people who work at/patronize these businesses from greedy business owners who only care about # 1! These laws are in place to protect people just like the smoking ban is. Just because you choose to smoke, doesn't mean that I choose to smoke. The Lawrence ban has always included an exception for a business that makes a certain percentage of their sales from the sale of tobacco and tobacco paraphernalia. In Durango, CO a similar ban exists and locals that find it important to have a bar that they can smoke at have banded together and made sure that they all buy their cigarettes from 1 bar downtown. There has been no such cooperation on the part of smokers in Lawrence even though several businesses have tried and failed to tap into the idea. As a server and patron, I appreciate the ban. I appreciate being able to walk into and out of buildings with my family (which includes a 7 yr old) without running into an unwelcome cloud of smoke!

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2shtz4u 4 years, 1 month ago

You all want to complain about people smoking,But what do you think when we all have to breath the fumes from the exhaust from your vehicles tail pipes! What do you think thats doing to everyones lungs.Also keep on and if everyone was to stop smoking then who would you have to bail your buts out when theres finiancial issues,Where do you think the money is going from us smokers.It's not just going in the air.It's bailling all you people out that set behind your desk or wherever and complaining.If you want to talk about polluted air don't just talk about Smokers.Also smoking isn't the only thing that stinks people.I have walked by plenty of people and there cologne smells so bad that I would much rather smell smoke than YOU!!!!!!!!

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Pilgrim2 4 years, 1 month ago

jadkansas (anonymous) says…

Beatrice, I agree that comparing the holocaust to a smoking ban is pathetic, but, they did start their tyranny and slaughter with things like smoking bans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_...

"The first modern, nationwide tobacco ban was imposed by the Nazi Party in every German university, post office, military hospital, and Nazi Party office, under the auspices of Karl Astel's Institute for Tobacco Hazards Research, created in 1941 under orders from Adolf Hitler. Major anti-tobacco campaigns were widely broadcast by the Nazis until the demise of the regime in 1945."


Bravo! Godwin flag shot off its halyard. No Star Spangled Banner for you nanny staters.

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Pilgrim2 4 years, 1 month ago

tumbilweed (anonymous) says…

I will carry a tape measure, then. Screw you guys.


Amen!!!

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Pilgrim2 4 years, 1 month ago

notjustyoureverydayaveragetrol (anonymous) says…

haha listen to all the whinny smokers haha, I for one plan on calling you in if I see you smoking by doors and I will get your tag number if you leave before the cops get there


Ah yes, the nanny state must rely on vigilantes and snitches.

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Pilgrim2 4 years, 1 month ago

jadkansas (anonymous) says…

DUI if he's above the legal limit. reckless/inattentive driving if he's not. You couldn't charge him for smoking even if he wasn't drunk, because personal vehicles are still "smoke" zones.


Not according to LMH. They think they can even prevent you from smoking in your own car if you're in their parking lot.

I dare them to try to enforce that.

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tubs_of_love 4 years, 1 month ago

Fewer kids downtown is a good thing.

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lounger 4 years, 1 month ago

This is a great idea! We have stopped taking our kids to certain parts of downtown because of all the horrible smoke that the smokers blow in every direction. Nothing worse than a smoker blowing smoke in the direction of a kid! I know not all smokers do this but way too many do....

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Godot 4 years, 1 month ago

"gatekeeper (anonymous) says… Carie Nation was for prohibition. All this law is doing is telling people where they can and can't smoke (like liquor laws), not outlawing smoking. Bad comparison."

Nah, it is the perfect analogy. Carrie Nation believed so strongly that her morals were more correct than others', that she used the law to attempt to force others to live their lives the way she saw fit. She was the perfect progressive, just like modern day progressives who, if they could, would reach into your shower and adjust the temperature so that it is "just right."

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Bill Lee 4 years, 1 month ago

The decline in people going out for entertainment has less to do with smoking bans and more to do with less time and money to spend on entertainment and the increase in what's available at home. Thanks to sites like hulu.com, I can watch movies and TV shows online for free. Why should I hassle with going out and search for parking when I have so many choices at home? When I do go out, I love the lack of smoke in bars and other live music venues.

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wasawest 4 years, 1 month ago

I'm a non-smoker who is very against this ban. First it's not the state's place to tell us where and were we can not smoke except for the obvious places... schools, hospitals exc. The second proble I have is hello... the statist in Topeka banned smoking everywhere except in State run casinos... Can you say using legislation to get rid of your competition! I urge everyone to research and vote Libertarian and take our state back!

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pooter 4 years, 1 month ago

One way these businesses downtown can recoup the money they lost for putting in smoking areas is to start charging a fresh air fee to everyone who isn't outside in the street smoking.

*

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Eride 4 years, 1 month ago

Ricky_Vaughn (anonymous) says…

@ gatekeeper

We feel like the majority is disregarding our rights. We're not supposed to lose rights just because we're in a minority."

So the majority who don't want to breath your toxins should be forced to do so for your convenience?

Ya... because your right to smoke where ever you please obviously outweighs the right everyone else has to not be forced to breath in toxins and carcinogens... seriously, are you nuts?

YOUR rights? What about the rights of everyone else?

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oneeye_wilbur 4 years, 1 month ago

That $10.00 is just 'round the block. The longer ride is more.

The City commission needs to recognize the business with the most cigarette butts 10 feet away from the entrance.

It will be known as the monthly Butt Award. It will be a generic designed trophy, 'cause it can be used for plenty of other promotions and awards.

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oneeye_wilbur 4 years, 1 month ago

That $10.00 is just 'round the block. The longer ride is more.

The City commission needs to recognize the business with the most cigarette butts 10 feet away from the entrance.

It will be known as the monthly Butt Award. It will be a generic designed trophy, 'cause it can be used for plenty of other promotions and awards.

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oneeye_wilbur 4 years, 1 month ago

Take a ride in Oneeye_wilbur's Smoking Van. Around the block and then the van will park in the 15 minute parking space. About 25 minutes total and the ride is only $10.00.

call 1 800 BAD LUNG

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macon47 4 years, 1 month ago

legalizing pot is not the answer nor the cure all.

first the price will go up with state and federal taxes packaging, fda and advertising

growing your own might fly under the radar but buying from your dope dealer wont be legal

then the dopers will have to do more armed robberies and steal more stuff to pay for their more expensive dope habit

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tubs_of_love 4 years, 1 month ago

Wasn't this country founded with the help of tobacco? I do suppose if one were to try and quit smoking, the ban might make it a little easier. I visited a city that had a ban just like this one and actually smoked 50% less.

-barrypenders (anonymous) says… Legalize pot. It's smoke is good for you.

That is just an excuse and is simply not true. But it would be great if pot was as magical as everyone wants it to be. And yes, I looked it up.

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WhiteDog 4 years, 1 month ago

leapinlemur (anonymous) says…

It's my God-given right as an American to have my government taste my food for me, tell me whether or not to allow smoking in my bar and, for that matter, tell me what I should put in my body!


Through your sarcasm, you actually make the right point. It is indeed my right to determine what I put into my own body - not the right of the government OR the smoker standing next to me. It really is that simple.

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Ricky_Vaughn 4 years, 1 month ago

@ gatekeeper

We feel like the majority is disregarding our rights. We're not supposed to lose rights just because we're in a minority.

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gatekeeper 4 years, 1 month ago

What's sad and pathetic is that they will have to enforce it because too many feel they have to make a point and be obnoxious and disregard the rights of the majority. I do feel for the poor smokers because walking an extra 10 feet for a smoke will probably make their emphysema worse. And they aren't used to getting that much exercise since they can't walk far before being out of breath.

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Ricky_Vaughn 4 years, 1 month ago

One thing it won't do...lower health care costs.

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Ricky_Vaughn 4 years, 1 month ago

I happen to agree with TheStonesSuck.

thefisherman (anonymous) says… This is like saying "the only way you can get cancer is if you're a sissy" or "the only way to get pregnant is by drinking soda out of a can." They don't equate. =============================== True, but I'll bet just about everyone on the planet has accidentally inhaled some second-hand smoke, car exhaust, etc at some point in their lives. All of these people WILL NOT get cancer.

TheStonesSuck has a point about prolonged exposure to second-hand smoke being the health risk, not "walking through a cloud of smoke" as smoking Nazi Dr. Bruner put it. Have fun enforcing it!

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Ricky_Vaughn 4 years, 1 month ago

"What are you gonna do? Arrest me for smoking?" --Sharon Stone, Basic Instinct

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jbiegs 4 years, 1 month ago

If any business really wants to allow smoking couldn't they just charge an annual membership fee and make it a private club? I think this has been done before in other cities that had smoking bans. Just a thought.

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sks6cf 4 years, 1 month ago

The bottom line is smoking is cool and you know it.

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Jeremy DeBoard 4 years, 1 month ago

Beatrice, I agree that comparing the holocaust to a smoking ban is pathetic, but, they did start their tyranny and slaughter with things like smoking bans.

"The first modern, nationwide tobacco ban was imposed by the Nazi Party in every German university, post office, military hospital, and Nazi Party office, under the auspices of Karl Astel's Institute for Tobacco Hazards Research, created in 1941 under orders from Adolf Hitler. Major anti-tobacco campaigns were widely broadcast by the Nazis until the demise of the regime in 1945."

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barrypenders 4 years, 1 month ago

Are these the same Scientists that said the planet is warming that said Cigarette smoke only travels 10 feet?

Stimulus, PAD SNAFU, and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you all

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beatrice 4 years, 1 month ago

sunshine-noise: "I feel like our country is turning into NAZI Germany back in the day."

Well, I can tell you one thing for sure -- you aren't Jewish.

Comparing the slaughter of 6 million Jews with not being able to smoke at the doorway of a smoke-free interior space isn't just hyperbole, it is pathetic. If you want to smoke, either light yourself on fire or walk 10 feet away from the door. Not that big of a deal.

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barrypenders 4 years, 1 month ago

Legalize pot. It's smoke is good for you.

Stimulus, PAD(Progressive Articulate Dogma) SNAFU( Systems Normal, All F'd Up), and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless us all

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ferrislives 4 years, 1 month ago

What drives me nuts is seeing parents smoking right around their children. While not all smokers are inconsiderate, inconsiderate smokers have caused a lot of the problem in my opinion.

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KawHawk 4 years, 1 month ago

Hey smokers -

You stink. The only ones who smoke are the white trash folks anyway. Restaurants and bars are better off without you anyway. Now decent people can go out to eat and drink everywhere in Kansas and not have to come home smelling like an ashtray.

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Richard Heckler 4 years, 1 month ago

If the Kansas don't give a damn attitude would have prevailed you can bet the the most expensive medical insurance in the world was waiting to add more to the medical insurance premiums,deductibles and co-pays. The industry is relieving millions of consumers of as much expendable cash as possible as we speak..... and finding a shocking number of supporters.

KANSAS GOVERNMENT SUPPORTS LUNG CANCER = Kansans love to pay more and more for their medical insurance.

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RonBurgandy 4 years, 1 month ago

Sweet.

Wow, Godwin's law achieved in comment number 2. That's pretty fast.

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macon47 4 years, 1 month ago

i never could figure out why non smokers wanted to hang where smoking was going on, there seems to be plenty of non smoking venues

what makes these others so attractive to smokers?

what about fat ugly people in bars? will the skinny beautiful people want to get them banned??

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gatekeeper 4 years, 1 month ago

Carie Nation was for prohibition. All this law is doing is telling people where they can and can't smoke (like liquor laws), not outlawing smoking. Bad comparison.

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macon47 4 years, 1 month ago

only 20% of the people smoke they are a minority and have no rights just let them go up to the bird and smoke all they want

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storm 4 years, 1 month ago

Disenchanted smokers, just replace your habit with pacifiers. You can suck all you want and you won't litter.

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Godot 4 years, 1 month ago

Carrie Nation would be proud.

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monkey_c 4 years, 1 month ago

I had just one word to add, sunshine_noise beat me to it. Oh well........NAZIS!!!!

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Jeremy DeBoard 4 years, 1 month ago

Apologies, I meant republicans, not democrats.

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Jeremy DeBoard 4 years, 1 month ago

Your assumption that all smokers are democrats is insulting to both.

And banning smoking is a democratic idea, not a socialist one. Although it's slowly being adopted by socialist countries around the world, it's birth is within democracy.

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J_Rok 4 years, 1 month ago

I get sick of the "holier than thou" attitude non-smokers. Last I knew smokers get taxed which goes to the state, helping smokers/non-smokers. Do you really want us all to quit and put the state further in debt? If you ask me they should be taxing fruit, vegetables, and other healthy goods more then they tax cigarettes because you health nuts will cost more in healthcare benefits than smokers will (this has been researched and determined, look it up) You wanted us outside? We go outside. Now you're complaining about us being outside? Oh No, you have to smell smoke a few times when you walk downtown. Big deal. You have to smell exhaust and the Kansas River too. If you are worried about a little smoke ,do what they do in Korea/Japan, wear a surgical mask when you go downtown.

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Pilgrim2 4 years, 1 month ago

Anyone who listens to anything Steve Bruner has to say is almost criminally ignorant. He's a terrible, incompetent doctor, and the sheep who followed him into this nanny state BS all rode the short bus to school.

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gatekeeper 4 years, 1 month ago

TopJayhawk (anonymous) says… This just gets stupider and stupider. It is time for people to wake up from their lemming like psychosis. This is just a prelude for taking more and more rights and feedoms away. It is time for civil disobedience. If all smokers just keep smoking wherever they feel like. The cops will not have time to babysit all the little whiners out there. Smoke em if you got em folks. Lets start taking our country back from the socialists that want to take all of our freedoms away /////

They aren't taking freedom away. The mass majority are non-smokers and we have to put up with the minorities damned smoke. Last I heard, democracy was based on majority rule. We are talking about people's health and if you can't walk your butt 10 feet from a door to smoke, you sir are the lazy whiner.

You complain about socialism, but it was your fine republican controlled KS govt that passed this.

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Mark Kostner 4 years, 1 month ago

Look at the headlines in the paper today. It's ban this, ban that, prohibit this, prohibit that. I have never seen such an all out assault on freedom. Is there really a problem with drinking beer in college, smoking on a sidewalk in the open air, ranchers burning grass in the pastures like they have since Kansas was a state, and K-2, synthetic cannibis or whatever that is. Are people dropping dead all over the place, or is this politicians wanting the appearance of earning their pay as "lawmakers." Is there really, really, truly a problem here? This is addition to national headlines concerning salt in foods, proposed federal regulations on fishing in rivers and lakes, and health regulations should health care "reform" pass. This regulation business is really getting out of hand. You have to look at the few things left you can do.

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Lenette Hamm 4 years, 1 month ago

I'm not a smoker, in fact really hate the smell and aftermath the habit causes to ones body. However, not allowing smoking outside is just absurd. What's next-telling smokers they can't smoke in their own homes, or hey, forget about it out in your yard too? You never know what neighbor might be getting polluted too! When smoking was allowed inside restaurants, I just plain avoided them. It's a matter of choice and preference...

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huntergathers 4 years, 1 month ago

Ban children and whiney folk from ten feet of wherever I'm standing...or whatever.

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mickeyrat 4 years, 1 month ago

Ban automobiles within 10 feet of a doorway. I have a right not to inhale your second-hand exhaust, you selfish drivers!

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Adrienne Sanders 4 years, 1 month ago

How are they going to enforce this? On campus, there's no smoking within 20 feet of doors, but people do it all the time. It doesn't help that there are ashtrays much closer to the doors than 20 feet.

As a side note, it amuses me that there are "No smoking within 20 feet" signs on the traffic booths, which presumably means that you can't smoke on the sidewalk while walking by, nor even in your car if you drive by the booth.

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Jeremy DeBoard 4 years, 1 month ago

The argument is not over nonsmokers' right to not smoke (which has never been in question), but the intake by them of secondhand smoke created by smokers. This is not the same as the act of smoking itself. That would be like, if I was eating a steak, you would be eating the steak too, since you were close enough to me to smell it.

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cowboy 4 years, 1 month ago

you know , first it was get the smokers out of the bars and restaurants , ok , you did that , now you want the doorways , cool , now you want the smoking patio. Go back inside and sit down and shut up !

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kneejerkreaction 4 years, 1 month ago

Smokers have a right to smoke. Non-smokers have a right to not smoke. Put the two together & the non-smoker's rights are taken away. So how fair is that? Great rule. Let's reclaim outside seating. Once the smoking ban was put into place, the outside seating was for the smoking crowd only.

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Jeremy DeBoard 4 years, 1 month ago

Trol, make sure to measure out 10 feet before you make a call to the authorities. Would hate to see you get a ticket instead of a law abiding citizen. Actually, no. I wouldn't hate that.

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leapinlemur 4 years, 1 month ago

So profound he had to say it twice! How does one smoke a "whinny" anyway? At least a smoking addiction can be cured. There's still no cure, patch or gum for stupid.

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notjustyoureverydayaveragetrol 4 years, 1 month ago

haha listen to all the whinny smokers haha, I for one plan on calling you in if I see you smoking by doors and I will get your tag number if you leave before the cops get there

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notjustyoureverydayaveragetrol 4 years, 1 month ago

haha listen to all the whinny smokers haha, I for one plan on calling you in if I see you smoking by doors and I will get your tag number if you leave before the cops get there

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pfunk81 4 years, 1 month ago

Well Boston it may work out well due to the 10 feet from the door thing. I can see the porch at Free State being a little more empty, while the sidewalk in front of it being a lot more full.

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Boston_Corbett 4 years, 1 month ago

I thought that Chuck Magerl said Free State would likely close if Lawrence passed a smoking ordinance. Johnny's too.

How did that work out?

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Meatwad 4 years, 1 month ago

This kind of stupid rule makes me embarrassed to be in favor of indoor smoking bans. I still am, but now I'm embarrassed. This is the kind of thing that can backfire for those who want smoking bans, get the whole thing thrown out because someone got greedy. Whomever included this clause went WAY too far. I hope it is enforced about as much as jaywalking. It's outdoors! Who cares!

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Meatwad 4 years, 1 month ago

I hate smoke and am in favor of INDOOR smoking bans... but I'm not in favor if making it illegal to smoke outside. I don't agree with the 10 feet rule AT ALL. Sure it's kind of annoying to have to walk past smokers when going into a place, but who cares. What about places like the Sandbar and the Red Lion that have built a small patio for smokers? This is just really stupid and I hope no one bothers to enforce it.

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topekan7 4 years, 1 month ago

... maybe they could make it legal to inhale smoke from a cigarette, but illegal to exhale.

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Jeremy DeBoard 4 years, 1 month ago

DUI if he's above the legal limit. reckless/inattentive driving if he's not. You couldn't charge him for smoking even if he wasn't drunk, because personal vehicles are still "smoke" zones.

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redmoonrising 4 years, 1 month ago

I don't smoke or drink but I just had this funny vision. A guy goes out, drinks himself silly and then gets into his car to drive home. About two blocks later, he's lighting a cigarette while driving, loses control and hits another car? What do they charge him with? Are the charges due to smoking and inattentive driving, which in reality caused the accident, or DUI?

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Jeremy DeBoard 4 years, 1 month ago

Time for us smokers to get some e-cigs and enjoy a puff or two after a big meal, without leaving the restaurant. We'll get our fix and the complaining non-smokers above can get bent.

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Steven Gaudreau 4 years, 1 month ago

Hip, A judge ruled that the owner of Last Call was not guilty when issued a smoking ticket for a patron's actions. Since the owner was not on premise or had given permission, the judge laughed the case out the door, found him not guilty and set precedence. The fire dept is not qualified to enter a business and hand out tickets to smoker's. The only way to get a ticket is if someone calls it in, the fire dept shows up and sees the person in the act. In short, nobody is getting a ticket.

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hipper_than_hip 4 years, 1 month ago

"It is time for civil disobedience. If all smokers just keep smoking wherever they feel like. The cops will not have time to babysit all the little whiners out there. "

1) It's the fire department that writes the tickets for smoking violations.

2) The business gets the ticket, not the smoker. And it's not an expensive ticket; I think it's $300.

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tumbilweed 4 years, 1 month ago

I will carry a tape measure, then. Screw you guys.

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Darrell Lea 4 years, 1 month ago

"Now two Senators are making a plan that would require all US legal workers to carey and ID card."

"What I find amusing is if the City of Lawrence doesn't like a State law, they cry fowl and then tell the State to stuff it because of Home Rule provisions."

"good I cant stand those sticky smokers outside either, ban smoking downtown"

"This is just a prelude for taking more and more rights and feedoms away. Smoke em if you got em folks. Lets start taking our country back from the socialists that want to take all of our freedoms away."

"Welcome to East Germany boys and girls. You though Kansas had financial issues before this, haa haww your about to see what a depression is like."

The preceding quotes brought to you by your friends and neighbors. Run for your lives, boys and girls.

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Joseph Jarvis 4 years, 1 month ago

“It will be punitive,” said Phil Bradley, executive director of the Kansas Licensed Beverage Association. “It is hurting a group that already is hurting.”

Inaccurate choice of words. It may hurt bars, but it's not punitive. The legislature didn't set out to punish them.

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newbee2 4 years, 1 month ago

Doesn't anyone else see the hypocrisy in all of this? Tobacco is bad, so let's ban it in public places and private businesses, including outdoors near entrances of private businesses, and let's tax the heck out of cigarettes so we (the legislature) can get some more money from people with a habit that is said to be as bad as heroine to kick, and maybe that will get some people to quit, but don't forget you can smoke at the casino, where we (the legislature) want you to spend your money so we can get our hands on that, too, and all the while we (the legislature) is spending money on a "gambling problem" ad campaign this month (yeah gambling is bad, too, we (the legislature) have to tell you that, but please please don't stop spending your retirement money or money for food, mortgage etc at the casinos!). Hypocrites in Topeka.

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davidsmom 4 years, 1 month ago

Ten feet is NOTHING when it comes to smoke. Make it something that makes sense!

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beobachter 4 years, 1 month ago

mutt, sure that average poster understands you simply rant and rave. You are so clueless about this law and the effect it will have is a joke. Did Lawrence tax revenues drop 40% after smoking ban? NO! Will the states? No! People will not stop going out simply because they can't force their bad habits on other. And we're still waiting for you to tell us what business you own so we can avoid it. After all, you keep telling us you don't want our business..

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kansasmutt 4 years, 1 month ago

First thing i have to say is this. The do gooders who got this bill introduced should be banned by every business who can find a way to survive. Ask around for names of those who helped support it and use your business owners right to refuse them service. Make life HEL! for them. Second. Any business owner who wants to sign up for the suit against the state check back Sunday for a way to contact me and get involved. I plan on filing the papers next week, if our state leader has the @#@$# to sign this illegal bill. This ban is a huge nail in the coffin of Kansas Business. The state will drop about 40% in tax revenue collections in the first 60 to 90 days. It will stabilize at an average of 35% lower. This will cost every Kansan a huge chunk of additional tax burden. Welcome to East Germany boys and girls. You though Kansas had financial issues before this, haa haww your about to see what a depression is like. Thank you do gooders.

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Pogo 4 years, 1 month ago

Good law. Good. Now we can enjoy outside munching which was taken over by the smoking crowd. Good riddance.....and we hope your drug is taxed at the rate of $5.00 per pack of cigs; $5.00 per can of chew; $1.00 per cigar; etc.

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ti62421 4 years, 1 month ago

I am not a smoker and I don't enjoy being in smokey areas, which of course was solved by the indoor smoking ban.

This would essentially ban any smoking downtown at all. All the bars that spent the money to accommodate smokers are now going to have just wasted that money. I don't see this as anything but an attack on small business. Though I guess it could also be viewed as a ridiculous trap to rake in money from fines...I'm envisioning people standing in the middle of Lawrence streets so they can smoke a cigarette...I mean seriously within 10 feet of any door?! What if you live in a loft downtown? What a pain in the butt to go smoke a cigarette...

The state of Kansas needs to focus on how broke it is and take care of the whole stupidity of renaming our capital google...not come up with another display of insanity for the rest of the states to judge...

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TopJayhawk 4 years, 1 month ago

This just gets stupider and stupider.
It is time for people to wake up from their lemming like psychosis. This is just a prelude for taking more and more rights and feedoms away. It is time for civil disobedience. If all smokers just keep smoking wherever they feel like. The cops will not have time to babysit all the little whiners out there. Smoke em if you got em folks. Lets start taking our country back from the socialists that want to take all of our freedoms away.

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mickeyrat 4 years, 1 month ago

Back when establishments were either smoking or non-smoking, I wouldn't ever smoke in front of a non-smoking business; I just thought it discourteous. I find it amusing that the people who pushed smokers outdoors everywhere are now griping about sidewalks clogged with smokers.

Now I take care to never toss cigarette butts in the street, but I suppose it will soon be illegal for businesses to have ashtrays by the door, so... on the sidewalk, in the street they go.

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walkthehawk 4 years, 1 month ago

I for one am SO glad to hear this. Two members of our family suffer from asthma, and walking down Mass street in the evenings while trying to breathe fresh air is like running a gauntlet. Smoking within 10 feet of a door brings smoke right inside to the patrons every time that door is opened and closed, and those business that place ashtrays right next to the door seem to encourage it. Please don't exempt Lawrence--this is the step that is needed to make our town breathing-friendly.

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thebcman 4 years, 1 month ago

Simple solution here ... tables and chairs outside that are 10 feet 1 inch off the ground.

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Bob Kraxner 4 years, 1 month ago

The issue here is not about, and has never been about smoking/health. What the real idea behind smoking bans is to see how many of you idiots jump to conclusions without considering the loss of your personal liberties that were given to American citizens in the beginning, 234 years ago. When you give an inch, the govt. will take a mile... one inch at a time. It's a brilliant disguise, the way they appear to be concerned with everyones health isn't it? But, if the govt. really did care about the health of the nation, as a whole, then wouldn't every american citizen be guaranteed health insurance at a minimum cost???

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oneeye_wilbur 4 years, 1 month ago

good chance to start up a Smokers Van . u call 1-800 BAD LUNG and get a ride and ride around with other smokers. 10 dollars for two hours ride

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kernal 4 years, 1 month ago

Anyone here remember when doctors and patient's smoked in the doctor's office and the waiting room? Oh, yes, and the hospitals! People hooked up to their IV's with a cigarette dangling from their lips. I quit a hundred times before I made it to the five year mark. I feel your pain if you still smoke, but I do not want to be around it.

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oneeye_wilbur 4 years, 1 month ago

Perfect opportunity now for another 40 different merchants to go before the city commission and ask for Smoking Meters. You stand at a meter and pay 50cents for 15 minutes to smoke. It would be a community thing. 5 smokers chip in a dime a piece and feed the meter while they feed their lungs.

After all, the meters have no revenue after 5pm, so now is a way to start up a new revenue source.

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jrswift 4 years, 1 month ago

I would support a statewide ban on state legislators.

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Richard Heckler 4 years, 1 month ago

Life could be worse. Lawrence Memorial Hospital does not allow smoking on their grounds if my memory serves me well.

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Scruggsy 4 years, 1 month ago

@itwasthedukes- Thats what I'm talking about. Don't forget metal music!!!

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Kip Patzel 4 years, 1 month ago

Darn no where down town to smoke what well they do?

No I really don't care, stay home, go to a casino, or move out of state......

This is awesome.

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generalsn 4 years, 1 month ago

Here in Chicago, after over two years, the fanfare is forgotten history. After the first winter, many small neighborhood bars (not restaurants, no kids) had to decide to risk a few fines and allow smoking, or close. Generally, restaurants do ok with higher turnover and lots of call in orders "to go".

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itwasthedukes 4 years, 1 month ago

I think they should ban everything dangerous: driving/riding in cars, going out in the sun, dancing, all sports, staircases, cell phones, soda, bikes, hammers, beer, fire or anything that can create flame and lightning just to name a few.

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ivalueamerica 4 years, 1 month ago

Smokers no longer have the right to spread cancer to innocent victims wherever they go.

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Keith 4 years, 1 month ago

I guess the Oread Cave can quit trying to get special dispensation from the city to allow smoking in the parking garage.

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d_prowess 4 years, 1 month ago

@Scruggsy... I would probably have fallen into the category of non-smoker that would have not popped into a bar downtown if there was smoking still allowed. Not all the time, just occasionally. But I still think those rare occurrences from people on both sides (smokers & non-smokers) probably cancel each other out. So it still comes down to the fact that the majority of people that go to the bars, still probably went. Smoking or not.

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pooter 4 years, 1 month ago

Looks like all the smokers just got kicked to the curb.

*

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Eride 4 years, 1 month ago

This makes me happy. It is a pretty common inclusion for smoking bans.

I do feel a little sorry for all the owners who spent a ton of money adding these areas for no reason though...

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sad_lawrencian 4 years, 1 month ago

I think they should ban cooking oils and saturated fats. They've already done that in New York City and New York City is all the better because of it.

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headdoctor 4 years, 1 month ago

I wonder if there is any restriction in the City about private clubs. If not, the bars could just skirt the law by becoming a members only establishment/gentle mans bar and then just thumb their nose at the State and maybe even the City as well.

I can just see establishments painting a 10 ft. marker on the sidewalk sort of like the 3 point line in basketball. LMAO.

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oneeye_wilbur 4 years, 1 month ago

This is a good idea. Now the cigarette butts will be in the street and find their way to the storm sewer openings. Perfect way for the sidewalks to be cleared of cigarette butts. There are truly some genius minds at work in Topeka.

Next we will see a cigarette butt with a line through it on the storm sewer tops.

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notjustyoureverydayaveragetrol 4 years, 1 month ago

good I cant stand those sticky smokers outside either, ban smoking downtown

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notjustyoureverydayaveragetrol 4 years, 1 month ago

good I cant stand those sticky smokers outside either, ban smoking downtown

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leapinlemur 4 years, 1 month ago

Far too late on this battle but I object to the entire line of reasoning for smoking bans in privately-owned establishments. Workers do not have to work in places where there is smoking if they don't wish to do so. Customers do not have to support such businesses either.

Now, all this has amounted to huge double whammy for several establishments in town. They adjusted to the ordinance and, in many cases, invested heavily in outdoor furniture, heaters, canopies, etc. Now the state is coming through again and wiping that out in favor of what is actually generally a more loose, tobacco industry-friendly piece of legislation. Guess who's caught in the middle again? You got it!

How long before we ban certain cooking oils? I will never feel safe knowing my lunch might have saturated fats in it and, of course, why should I have to ask someone or adjust my choices of restaurant to avoid them? I mean, duh, everyone knows that only self-righteous people should make any decisions for anybody!

It's my God-given right as an American to have my government taste my food for me, tell me whether or not to allow smoking in my bar and, for that matter, tell me what I should put in my body!

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cowboy 4 years, 1 month ago

I have no doubt the illustrious commission will come up with some dumb a$$ enforcement solution , Scarlet letter , Group W Bench , Smoking Meters ,

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classclown 4 years, 1 month ago

Will there be radius rings encircling every door to every business drawn on the sidewalks designating the smoke free areas?

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classclown 4 years, 1 month ago

down_the_river (anonymous) says…

Will the City be fined if they allow people to smoke on the sidewalks downtown, or is policing the sidewalk for smokers passing by the responsibility of the shop owners?

=================================

Maybe there will be a phone number that joggers/runners can call to report on people.

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cowboy 4 years, 1 month ago

I'm a smoker and i don't think its a big deal. Courteous smokers don't hang right by the door , they do their best to stay away from anyone and stay down wind at that. If you don't do that you're asking for some oxygen challenged person running up and getting in your face about it anyway. If you can't find a place to smoke without offending someone just don't.

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i_tching 4 years, 1 month ago

Smoking is stupid and wise people do not tolerate it.

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scootterxlch 4 years, 1 month ago

When will people see that this is a property rights issue and not a public health issue. For the record a business that is "open to the public" is very different than a "public" space. School courthouses and such where attendance is required by statute or right is very very different animal. BTW I just tried one of those "e"cigarettes after being a lifelong smoker and silly as it may sound they rock!!! I have not had a cigarette in over a week because of these things. they do look silly but they do work and i can smoke indoors. Smoking bans are silly.

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gatekeeper 4 years, 1 month ago

this is how most states bans are set up. It's disgusting walking into businesses that are surrounded by smokers.

And studies have proven that indoor smoking bans have reduced the number of heart attacks caused by second hand smoke. It doesn't take much cig smoke to thicken blood, causing clots and heart attacks. http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=12649

You want to kill yourself, go for it. We unfortunately have laws like this in place because of selfish people like TheStonesSuck who don't care who they harm.

Do you sit at work all day and smoke? Most likely, you go outside. So, how darned hard is it for you to walk 10 feet from a door so you aren't blowing your smoke at others? Is walking 10 feet too hard for you because you have no lung capacity left? Maybe it's time for you to change instead of forcing your smoke on others.

By the way, I smoked for over 20 years. Those that can't figure out you're better off w/out them are idiots.

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Scruggsy 4 years, 1 month ago

@d-prowess: When I was a smoker, the ban absolutely kept me from going out for a beer when the weather was bad. If you totally took away any place to smoke at a bar, even outdoors, I for sure wouldn't have gone. Now an ex-smoker, the ban doesn't make me go out more. And, the main reason I quit was the previous tax increase... take that for what it's worth...

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d_prowess 4 years, 1 month ago

I wish there was an unbiased study out there that would look at how many smokers stop going out or go out less due to a ban. And the same can be done for the number of non-smokers that go out or go out more after a ban. People keep saying bans stop smokers from going out and increase non-smokers going out. And personally, I have doubts about both. I think people that go out, go out. Smoke or not.

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down_the_river 4 years, 1 month ago

Could be mistaken, but I think the provisions of the State law will also prohibit smoking on the decks built at Louise's, Quinton's, Replay, etc. The restriction has to do with the definition of an enclosed space, not just the proximity to the doorway.

Will the City be fined if they allow people to smoke on the sidewalks downtown, or is policing the sidewalk for smokers passing by the responsibility of the shop owners?

When will this law take effect?

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macon47 4 years, 1 month ago

just have the commissioners draft a tersely worded letter to the state voicing thier displeasure, that should do it

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parrotuya 4 years, 1 month ago

Freedom-loving smokers: smoke in the privacy of your own homes and quit crying. If you can't be out in public without a cigarette you truly are weak.

DOWn, baby, DOWn!

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parrotuya 4 years, 1 month ago

Freedom-loving smokers: smoke in the privacy of your own homes and quit crying. If you can't be out in public without a cigarette you truly are weak.

DOWn, baby, DOWn!

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thefisherman 4 years, 1 month ago

TheStonesSuck: The only way that second hand smoke will affect your health, is if 1) you're a sissy, or 2) you're constantly surrounded by it (as in the case where smoking is allowed in the home.) So, kids with parents that smoke indoors are screwed, but its the parents choice, and the kids probably wont amount to much, not with that kind of upbringing anyways.


This is like saying "the only way you can get cancer is if you're a sissy" or "the only way to get pregnant is by drinking soda out of a can." They don't equate.

In addition, your statement about children not amounting to anything being brought up in a home with smokers implies that the child will not rise above their circumstances to become more than the crap they were surrounded by as a child. I'm not arguing that parents who smoke around their kids aren't bad parents, because they are. I'm arguing that the child's future is not necessarily dictated by their upbringing. Too often it is, but not always.

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Jeremy DeBoard 4 years, 1 month ago

My sentiments exactly headdoctor. Our governments may end up even farther in the red, but at least the air will be clean of cigarette smoke. Effectively, all these bans are pushing the smoker's out of the public and into the public's pocket.

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headdoctor 4 years, 1 month ago

The State is crying about sales tax revenue falling and the State may have just took another hit. If smokers decide to not buckle under like some did for the current city law there will be even less people spending money out. Where you law makers going to get your revenue from now? Idiots.

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headdoctor 4 years, 1 month ago

What I find amusing is if the City of Lawrence doesn't like a State law, they cry fowl and then tell the State to stuff it because of Home Rule provisions. I doubt they will on this one. Either way the enforcement of this law is going to be like watching a State version of the Key Stone Cops. The City can't truly enforce their own current law so what makes the state think they can? I haven't seen the law yet but I wonder if they are making the business owner responsible for making sure the 10 ft rule is followed. In some parts of town because of the way door ways are located it will make most of the side walk an illegal zone. Now we will get to see how many drunks are ran over for smoking in the street.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 1 month ago

Don't ban outdoor smoking, just make it legal for non-smokers to carry and use Super-Soakers filled with fox urine whenever they feel threatened.

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TheStonesSuck 4 years, 1 month ago

Sunshine, NORML..just do what i do, smoke wherever the hell you feel like it. The state made its decision, now lets see it enforced. May seem like a dick move, but who cares? this statute is overreaching. The only way that second hand smoke will affect your health, is if 1) you're a sissy, or 2) you're constantly surrounded by it (as in the case where smoking is allowed in the home.) So, kids with parents that smoke indoors are screwed, but its the parents choice, and the kids probably wont amount to much, not with that kind of upbringing anyways.

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d_prowess 4 years, 1 month ago

I am a supporter of the smoking ban, but I think this is a little extreme. And really sucks for the businesses that complied with the city law and put the money into setting up outdoor seating for their smoking customers.

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fearsadness14 4 years, 1 month ago

sunshine, why do you think banning smoking in particular areas is "ridiculous"? I'm not picking a fight, but I'm curious as to why you would think an indoor smoking ban is obscene.

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Kat Christian 4 years, 1 month ago

This is ridiculous and I'm not a smoker. Now two Senators are making a plan that would require all US legal workers to carey and ID card. I feel like our country is turning into NAZI Germany back in the day. "Where's your papers" Wonder if certain groups will have to eventually wear some certain kind of badge too. Our freedoms are slowly slipping away. Welcome to the New World Order folks.

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Stuart Evans 4 years, 1 month ago

I foresee a future of hamster type cages with tubes from multiple bars/restaurants leading to a single roof enclosure just for smokers. I hope it will have a big wheel for exercise as well.

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