Archive for Tuesday, November 24, 2009

Turbine manufacturer passes on Lawrence site

November 24, 2009

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Lawrence made it to the final four — but fell just short — in its efforts to land a new plant that would manufacture components for wind turbines.

Beth Johnson, vice president of the Lawrence Chamber of Commerce, confirmed Tuesday that a German-based wind energy company recently notified Lawrence leaders that the city no longer was being considered for the project that would have added 250 jobs to the community.

Lawrence was one of four cities that were being considered for the project, Johnson said. One other Kansas city remains in the running for the plant. An announcement has not yet been made.

In Lawrence, Johnson said the company was considering an 87-acre site that is just east of the East Hills Business Park. Johnson said company representatives told her transportation concerns, including access to the park from the west, were a major reason Lawrence was dropped from consideration.

Johnson said she was encouraged that Lawrence made it deep into the review process. She said the exposure should make it more likely that Lawrence will be considered for other green energy projects in the future.

Comments

budwhysir 5 years, 6 months ago

Yes so nice to make it to the final four only to realize we fall short of being a hero. Final four,,,, hmmm maybe a link to the ncaa tourny?

timetospeakup 5 years, 6 months ago

puddleglum - would ANY new jobs make you happy, or would you rather just whine about unemployment rates?

budwhysir 5 years, 6 months ago

I for one would not want Lawrence to base its business direction in such an area. With all of the complaints about using up our oil resources, imagine the protests against using up our wind resources. Can you imagine how much it would cost to import wind from across the world?? What will we do with all these wind farms when the wind runs out?? Shouldnt we go to water power first and use our water up prior to not being able to breath??? Imagine how it would be to not have pollution and smog but still not be able to have any air

cowboy 5 years, 6 months ago

250 good paying jobs for regular people building wind turbines for an emerging industry , while we put 3 million into crititech for 14 effing jobs. Should have built them whatever road they wanted you dumb a$$es. This opportunity comes along very rarely and Lawrence , while you are slobbering over buying a building you're losing opportunities.

I for one am quite pi$$ed about this.

budwhysir 5 years, 6 months ago

ride em cowboy. not sure this is an industry that we can build our future on. have you seen the statistics on how much it costs to build a turbine compared to the amount of energy produced? Do you think that the government will mandate wind energy while there is so much revenue made in the coal plant regulations?

budwhysir 5 years, 6 months ago

if this town was able to generate power from idle and empty buses we could make a fortune

Joe Hyde 5 years, 6 months ago

I am skeptical about the "lack of road access from the west" being the real reason why the company decided against locating in Lawrence.

How did Lawrence make it "deep into the selection process" when the company already knew that the South Lawrence Trafficway was not just unfinished, but that it might never get finished? Point being, Lawrence made their final four based on the existing transportation system we've already got.

So the statement that "poor transportation from the west" caused Lawrence to be dropped from consideration simply doesn't hold water, and it therefore makes no sense to blame the unfinished SLT for this industrial near-miss.

But you gotta admire the Chamber of Commerce for subtly trying to link this fly-by of 250 "green energy jobs" with our failure to complete the South Lawrence Trafficway. Doggone it anyway, if only we would finish that Trafficway (and lure 20,000 more Johnson Countians into moving here) then finally, finally we could change how we do things, by building thousands of new energy efficient solar-powered homes in Supernew Extremely Far West Lawrence.

Yeah, right.

H_Lecter 5 years, 6 months ago

In five years, most new homes being built will have some type of alternative energy service built into them. It may be a vertical axis turbines or solar panels. There will also be future energy credits for adding these to existing homes. The payback is getting faster and the investment is shrinking. It is truly Lawrence's loss.

Hoots 5 years, 6 months ago

If the trafficway were in place this wouldn't have been a concern for this company. The outlet for the alignment would have put the end of the trafficway within less than a mile of the factory site. We really know how to screw ourselves here in Lawrence.

Those would have been great jobs for many people. I have a degree but I'm sick of the ignorant jerks here that think the only good job is one that requires 4 or more years at the college level. If we keep thinking like this we are going to end up in sad shape. An over educated town with so many dumb and short sighted people...amazing.

They are so proud of 4th place. What a bunch of spin. Only the winner gets paid in this game folks. 2nd is as good as last.

TopJayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

Puddleglum just wants to complain. Yes, give the jobs to Topeka, then all of the Lawrence crowd can hop on the turnpike and waste gas and add to the co2 problem by driving to Topeka everyday for the jobs that you don't have.

grammaddy 5 years, 6 months ago

Geez, what a mess. What 's this no access from the west? Don't we all live west of this place?

grimpeur 5 years, 6 months ago

Stupid halfwits insisting on a 32nd St. alignment. If not for these petulant crybabies, who forced the issue with a bridge to nowhere and attempted end runs around federal requirements and still have no solid rationale for the 32nd alignment, we could have had the road years ago. This is the predictable result of bad planning and short-sighted speculation.

gccs14r 5 years, 6 months ago

Siemens could have been concerned about the lack of 24/7 bus service, for all we know.

The SLT could have been built 20 years ago if they had put it south of the river.

littlebird 5 years, 6 months ago

Chad, quit being so lazy and do some actual reporting. You write, "Beth Johnson, vice president of the Lawrence Chamber of Commerce, confirmed Tuesday that a German-based wind energy company recently notified Lawrence leaders that the city no longer was being considered for the project that would have added 250 jobs to the community.

Where is the who, what, when, where, how, and why? What German-based wind energy company? Did you speak with anyone at their company? Give us some real first hand infomation, not the spin crap from Beth Johnson, who I wouldn't believe any farther than Merril could throw her.

Be a real reporter and give us some real information. If I wanted to read press releases I would just go by the Chamber and pick them up.

bd 5 years, 6 months ago

""representatives told her transportation concerns, including access to the park from the west, were a major reason Lawrence was dropped from consideration. ""

What a bunch of crap!!! The SLT needs to be built NOW!

cowboy 5 years, 6 months ago

Is this the Siemens plant that was awarded to Hutch back in May , 2009. Is this old news or new news ?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

If this is a new plant, Siemens is the German company and one Kansas location is still in the running, the main reason that Lawrence didn't get this is that they have made the decision to build it in Hutch, which would centralize its production facilities. They would also give them access to thousands of aircraft industry workers now unemployed in the Wichita area.

"In Lawrence, Johnson said the company was considering an 87-acre site that is just east of the East Hills Business Park."

What site is that? The only thing east of the Business Park is prime agricultural land, none of which, to my knowledge, is zoned industrial.

And I agree with Joe Hyde. The SLT had nothing to do with this decision. It was just a gratuitous jab by the Chamber, which has many members who are emotionally and financially invested in screwing Haskell.

cowboy 5 years, 6 months ago

I would suspect that this was the Siemens plant , the other competitors were hutchinson and Soiux City iowa . There were heavy state incentives

from Hutch News.....

"Kansas lawmakers late last month amended existing economic development legislation to grant up to $5 million in bonds for wind or solar energy manufacturers to research, develop, engineer or manufacture renewable energy components.

The company would repay the bonds over time using the state's share of withholding taxes for workers employed in the plant.

To be eligible, the company would have to invest at least $30 million in the state and employ at least 200 full-time workers within five years. The jobs must pay at least $15.60 per hour." It does not say what Hutchinson kicked in to the deal

Lawrence probably fell out due to Land cost , lack of land availability . and community red tape in my humble opinion. By the way in Googling effort there is no mention of Lawrence as a finalist. Nor is there any other news story about this being another company looking at a different plant. Ask a few questions LJW , the answers might be a bit telling. 250 15 dollar an hour jobs would be quite a boost for Lawrence.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 5 years, 6 months ago

"So the statement that “poor transportation from the west” caused Lawrence to be dropped from consideration simply doesn't hold water, and it therefore makes no sense to blame the unfinished SLT for this industrial near-miss."

Or... it could be some of us have vowed to never support the improvement of K-10, no matter what. People, keep in mind that traffic engineers where the ones who came up with the SLT. Why? Maybe because of a great need for improvements on K-10 traffic flow. Did the engineers hate the salamaders and want a new highway to kill them all, or did they see a need to improve traffic?

Now we have further evidence from an impartial source: we NEED to finish that road.

gccs14r 5 years, 6 months ago

If it's that important, putting it south of the river should be a no-brainer.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

" People, keep in mind that traffic engineers where the ones who came up with the SLT. Why? "

No, they didn't. It was a closed meeting of movers and shakers and sitting county and city commissioners who determined the route, and then lobbied KDOT to engineer a road along that route.

cowboy 5 years, 6 months ago

It probably is also driven by politics of lawrence i.e. we don't want ag land developed we don't want any new road infrastructure we crapped on the power plant out in western kansas

Until Lawrence collectively gets it's head out of it's pompous a$$ we will not land any meaningful jobs in this city or county. Our industry will remain fast food and university.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

"we don't want ag land developed"

That's a no-brainer, and those areas that are doing otherwise will greatly regret it.

"we don't want any new road infrastructure"

Well, "we" are hardly of one opinion on that. But what a large percentage of us want is for the decisions on new road infrastructure to be based on something other that what's good for the road builders and sprawlmongers.

"we crapped on the power plant out in western kansas"

What could that possibly have to do with the location of a wind-turbine manufacturing facility?

Thats_messed_up 5 years, 6 months ago

Lol your city is an economic joke. Every business owner in Lawrence knows how hard it is to expand your business in Lawrence. Outside businesses know better than to try to bring their company to Lawrence. The city obstructs everything owners try to do with their bureacracies, inspectors, architectural drawings requirements, Lawrence "certified" contractors only, etc etc. If you want to improve your facilities as an owner in Lawrence get ready pay a hefty price to only Lawrence certified architects and contractors$$. This entire economy is protectionist against outsiders keeping prices artificially high for all labor. The city permit process is extremely slow and probably intentionally so. Inspectors have never owned their own business and could care less if your project is delayed by several months. It means nothing to them if you completely miss a huge opportunity to expand. There are no good new jobs coming to Lawrence because everyone outside this town knows how messed up it is. It's sadly hilarious that the highway that should have been built 20 years ago cost Lawrence another 250 jobs but then again you hippies didn't want those blue collar jobs anyway!

cowboy 5 years, 6 months ago

Bozo , These projects are sourced by the state more often than not. When you stick a fork in the dinner plate of another community there are consequences politically. Having started up a plant that was heavily state financed many years ago there are a lot of politicians involved in addition to the banks , local community folks , workforce consultants , etc. It does make a difference !

Boston_Corbett 5 years, 6 months ago

Cowboy & Bozo: This was not the Siemens plant which located in Hutch. The plans for that plant were finalized months ago. I believe it is nearly ready for use.

This facility location evaluation process (perhaps it is another Siemens facility, I do not know) was completed only recently. ....Their evaluation team visited Lawrence only 2 or 3 weeks ago.

It is quite possible that this team did not understand the (lack of) local transportation infrastructure until that visit. That is how these visits go.... First cut on cities has fewer criteria, and they drill down on more specific site requirements on an actual visit.

I totally understand how a company who may want to be shipping large products to the west would have problems with a Lawrence Industrial Park location.

cowboy 5 years, 6 months ago

Thanks Boston , and to quote Emily Litella , nevermind

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

So the lesson is that we either go along with costly and dangerous stupidity like the coal plants or suffer petty vindictiveness. Ain't America Great!!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

"This was not the Siemens plant which located in Hutch."

I never thought it was. But if Siemens is the company involved here, it would make sense for them to build this one next to the other, for reasons I already listed.

tomatogrower 5 years, 6 months ago

The reason they didn't take it across the river was because they didn't want to spend the money on a bridge. By now they could have built 50 bridge across the river. Put the location up for a vote for all of Douglas County, then build it where the citizens choose. Of course, they are afraid to do that, because south of the river will be chosen. As for the people who live in Lawrence, why isn't there a light at 31st and Louisiana? The 4 way stop is kept there to make people's lives miserable, so they will support the wet lands destruction.
And a nice west route to the turnpike would have been good for Lawrence, but Tongie got that interchange instead. Tunnel vision and a complete obsession with an unpopular route is the real problem. Maybe the other Kansas town in consideration is Tongie or Eudora. Think how much opening that interchange is going to spur growth in that area. But our developers are so set on one route that they can't have, they just can't think outside the box.

BigPrune 5 years, 6 months ago

They must have been looking at the "virginal farmland" American Eagle Outfitters liked before being run out of town.

The SLT will do more for creating jobs than anything else Lawrence can do. Their excuse was very plausible. Just wait until 4 lane Highway 59 opens up and 23rd Street has 60,000 vehicles per day (today it is 30,000), just wait indeed. The eco-fascists won't have a voice at all. Their day is coming sooner rather than later. Actually, isn't it time to sue them instead of the other way around?

puddleglum 5 years, 6 months ago

some poster: Puddleglum just wants to complain. Yes, give the jobs to Topeka, then all of the Lawrence crowd can hop on the turnpike and waste gas and add to the co2 problem by driving to Topeka everyday for the jobs that you don't have.

oh yeah, that's actually already happening.

yes puddleglum loves to complain, just like everybody else.

yes marion, the legacy of a commission that hasn't existed for five years. That's like blaming my woes on a downtown pawnshop that hasn't been around for five years-oh wait, nevermind.

The Simons' SLT will never work. it was a money grab from the get go, and only on the west side. They got their money, and ever since then it has been a pony show about where to build it, wetlands, haskell, baker U, etc. meanwhile, the 'overflow' of 23rd st traffic never happened and I think everyone can see how useless the eastern leg would be. Its dead, let it rest in peace. And the monumental bridge to nowhere should become a nature park. or an owl sanctuary.

TNPlates 5 years, 6 months ago

Why would any manufacturer of heavy goods consider the East Lawrence Business Center in the first place? "Access to the west" seems like a red herring, since Lawrence apparently made the short list in the first place. I-35 isn't that far to the East (which would take them South and West) and if Lawrence was the right location for them, they would've taken a long hard look along I-70, out near the power plant, which has access to East and West (and N/S).

There are several German turbine manufacturers out there, only one (Siemens) that has any presence in the U.S. More than likely, this manufacturer of wind turbine "components" (it doesn't say nacelles or blades - could be gears, hubs or anything else for that matter) is affiliated with Siemens. Component manufacturers like to be near the main manufacturing facilities.

budwhysir 5 years, 6 months ago

heybluekc:

What do you mean I am a line. Least I think that is what you mean by the statement that I am a ____ anyhow, I can promise you do not want to drag me into a debate on going green. I have done my research and little does anyone know, i am actualy one of the top sought after advisors for the future of this green world.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

"Why does a vacant building need to submit a site plan for the interior remodeling?"

It's not the interior remodeling that triggers the need for a site plan. What triggers it is the proposed use of that interior, especially on a commercial property in a residential neighborhood.

Kris_H 5 years, 6 months ago

I don't think Topeka was on the short list, but we'd be glad to take those 250 jobs you don't want.

And it will be immaterial where you live after the city limits pushes a bit further west and we are all living in Lawreka anyway...

Boston_Corbett 5 years, 6 months ago

Bozo: "But if Siemens is the company involved here, it would make sense for them to build this one next to the other,..."

Maybe yes, maybe no. If it is indeed blade construction, parts coming from the two plants will not see each other until installation. If it is Siemens, and if they wanted their plant to be closer to Hutch, Lawrence would never have been on the list. You will note that the long list was pretty long, so I think proximity to Hutch is not a big issue.

Bozo, you just don't want to admit that lack of the SLT could be an issue. Guess what, you are wrong.

Richard Heckler 5 years, 6 months ago

If KDOT and local commissioners had not blown the federal dollars before the court rendered a decision the money could have been spent on a practical application such as I-70 connectors going north between East Hills and Desoto.

I-70 connectors still are more practical.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

"Bozo, you just don't want to admit that lack of the SLT could be an issue. Guess what, you are wrong."

Apparently, you're among those with all your eggs in the SLT basket.

vermont 5 years, 6 months ago

Sounds like Beth Johnson has worn out her welcome. We need someone else working with these potential job suppliers. Someone who knows what they're doing. She's pissed too many people off.

BigPrune 5 years, 6 months ago

Baloney vermont. She is just trying to deal with a community that has been anti-business for almost a whole decade. No growth brings our bad reputation.

Bozo, new site plan is triggered by a change of use, not some commercial building in a residential neighborhood - it applies everywhere that wasn't a PCD before the new code took effect. Just another weirdo requirement from the City of Lawrence that adds to our horrifically terrible reputation. Why waste the money and time to have an architect or engineer draw something up just to wait another month for City approval OR disapproval? Who in their right mind would spare the tens of thousands of dollars in an expensive gamble especially with Lawrence's terrible reputation? Just another way to create false vacancies throughout our community. Why are we so special to have this requirement and what other community in the entire United States of America has this requirement? I'd like to know one city, please.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

"Bozo, new site plan is triggered by a change of use.

That's what I said.

I don't necessarily agree with the city's policy, but you don't really need an architect or an engineer to draw up a site plan, especially on a residential or small commercial property.

The reasons are obvious-- how you use your property affects your neighbors, and lots of other things. If there is a history of improvements made on a property on file with the city, then it's pretty easy to see if something has been done that is non-conforming but hasn't gotten a proper waiver, which would generally require input from the neighbors.

" Why are we so special to have this requirement and what other community in the entire United States of America has this requirement?"

I would guess that any community over 20,000 people or so which bases their codes on the Uniform Building Code has similar regulations, or soon will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Building_Code

rEaLiTyCk 5 years, 6 months ago

Siemens announced Hutchison as the chosen site this past summer, design is complete and contractor chosen; http://www.gray.com/blog/show/112

Bozo... its the International Building Codes now, regarding site plan requirments, the planning department is requiring this so that they and the building inspection department can verify that the use if approporiate for what the site/building was intended and approved for, especially since it seems the City is not interested in a 'business liscense' scenero in which a business could submit for, (small administrative fee) so a planner could verify from the completed liscense permit form if the businesses proposed use is approporiate, in addition currently there is nothing in place for the building inspection department to verify building, elect/mech/plumbing, fire, life saftey requirments are to code if a business just moves into a lease space or building 'as is'.

and 'Thats_messed_up ', have you been to JCO, Lenexa to do a project lately, similar requirments (and more...i.e. water district submittal requirments) similar turnaround. 'Certified architects and contractors'????you mean liscensed? (KS state statue FYI) and same requirments of any other larger Municipality in the area, i assume you build outside Douglas county were there is no code inforcement?

We want the jobs, but not the building sites needed to construct such project types, complain, but do nothing...wow

Yawnmower 5 years, 6 months ago

Its a bust industry anyways. Forest for the trees and all.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 5 years, 6 months ago

"A company that is interested in green energy..."

NO, a company that is interested in pulling a profit from manufacturing turbines. What makes you think that Siemens is in it out of "conscience"? This was entirely a business decision: they needed roads that we don't have.

I'm glad that Packer is expanding, but honestly, we could add 1,000 more jobs paying <$12.00 per hour and it wouldn't propel us forward in the least. We need jobs that pay livable wages, and I'm sure that a major manufacturer like Siemens' turbine plant would have paid plenty.

Face it, tree huggers: opposing the completion of the SLT is hurting everyone in Douglas county. You want to help the poor? Bring some decent paying jobs to Lawrence and quit hating everything traditional. We can't all be "artists" and feed our families. We need good jobs and this loss is a missed opportunity that only comes along once.

In Lawrence we can have ONE day to celebrate Dadism, but we sure as hell cannot accomplish anything of lasting value because (this part is so twisted) we PRIDE ourselves on our ability to keep ourselves "down". Those of you who opposed the SLT and patted yourselves on the back: are you happy now? I think you are. That blows my mind.

We are self-oppressing, and we think that's virtuous!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

"What makes you think that Siemens is in it out of “conscience”?"

If they don't believe in what they are doing, then they nothing more than whores, don't you think?

"Face it, tree huggers: opposing the completion of the SLT is hurting everyone in Douglas county."

You've clearly picked up on the chambocrat talking points- find anything that might be remotely negative, and blame it on the failure to pave over Indian graves.

"In Lawrence we can have ONE day to celebrate Dadism,"

Ah, isn't that precious. Pick one thing a former commissioner did for fun, and use it to smear any attempts at balance in how we run this city.

gccs14r 5 years, 6 months ago

"This was entirely a business decision: they needed roads that we don't have."

The article doesn't say that. Here, I'll quote the relevant passage:

"Johnson said company representatives told her transportation concerns, including access to the park from the west, were a major reason Lawrence was dropped from consideration."

Transportation is more than just roads. Even if they meant roads, access from the west doesn't necessarily mean an SLT, they may have wanted better access to the Turnpike, or they could have been looking for a rail link. They also could have wondered if their employees would be compelled to own a car in order to get to work, since we put our busses away at 8 p.m. You can bet the City won't tell us what really happened, though.

littlebird 5 years, 6 months ago

Yeah, I have the one industry that we should have in Lawrence that would provide plenty of high paying jobs.

KU should have the KU Medical Center in Lawrence, not in Kansas City.

monkeyhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

"find anything that might be remotely negative" More like the crux of the matter, swamper.

"In Lawrence we can have ONE day to celebrate Dadism,”

"Ah, isn't that precious. Pick one thing a former commissioner did for fun, and use it to smear any attempts at balance in how we run this city."

I think Dad forgot to mention the tax day clogging party that brought Lawrence national fame. Same CC - different dude.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

"More like the crux of the matter"

No, more like a big fish that got away, and the chambocrat employee making an excuse using a lame chambocrat talking point.

"I think Dad forgot to mention the tax day clogging party"

This is kinda like these emails. They don't prove anything, but if you whine about it enough, you convince yourself that it means something.

I'm sure you would have been happier if Boog and Rundle had been more "traditional," and conducted city business in secret on the golf course?

Boston_Corbett 5 years, 6 months ago

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…"Apparently, you're among those with all your eggs in the SLT basket."


Not at all Bozo, I can't recall if I have ever before posted on the SLT.

But I certainly haven't spent the last 10 years plus whining, demonizing, politicizing, and mis-characterizing the topic like someone else I know.

monkeyhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

“More like the crux of the matter” ---- you forgot the swamper part.

"I'm sure you would have been happier if Boog and Rundle had been more “traditional,” and conducted city business in secret on the golf course?"

You are probably right about that. Though I would imagine Boog & Rundle hold great disdain for golf courses, kinda like Chavez.

At any rate, that CC was fun while it lasted. They left a fabulous legacy, and woke people up to the joys and benefits of the progressive movement.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

Yea, Boston, Haskell and anyone else who wants to save the wetlands shut just shut up and enjoy it. Otherwise, we can't make the claim of being "reasonable."

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

"you forgot the swamper part."

I didn't "forget" it. I merely followed the advice I learned in third-grade about petty name-calling.

"Though I would imagine Boog & Rundle hold great disdain for golf courses, kinda like Chavez."

Random associations of various names and words may be an improvement on your normal posting MO, but that still doesn't make it an intelligent argument.

monkeyhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

"I didn't “forget” it. I merely followed the advice I learned in third-grade about petty name-calling."

I think what you learned was how to master it... (and the examples are over only a few days!)

'If they don't believe in what they are doing, then they nothing more than whores, don't you think?'

"what's good for the road builders and sprawlmongers."

"Sounds like you're looking for some illiterate drones"

"What a surprise— it's an orgy of the ignorant and the superstitious."

"...Mangino's behavior, but if we're honest, isn't being a crude, insensitive foul-mouthed barbarian really just part of his de facto job description?"

"Well, that just shows you're as ignorant as Tom, 75."

Jeff Goodrick 5 years, 6 months ago

They needed the BNSF railroad service, flat ground and access to the west to haul 150 foot blades on trucks. The other city in Kansas is Topeka. Can you see driving 200 foot trucks going down 23d street?

lounger 5 years, 6 months ago

No matter what...the wetlands need to be preserved. There will be more green company's courting lawrence. And they will have more respect for a town that doesn't shred its last remaining bits of wild lands to pieces.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

Sorry if you don't like the accurate descriptions I supplied, monkeyhawk, but it's still different from the petty name-calling in which you engage.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

"They needed the BNSF railroad service, flat ground and access to the west to haul 150 foot blades on trucks."

If that's really the case, that would exclude a whole lot of industrial sites, not just those in Lawrence, and the completion of the SLT through the Haskell Wetlands would be no guarantee of a different result.

Jeff Goodrick 5 years, 6 months ago

Thats why they need the bean field east of east hills park, The other site is on the old air base south of Topeka

BigPrune 5 years, 6 months ago

bozo, the UBC has nothing to do with what I was writing about. Lawrence has "extra" requirements passed by the Progressive commission about 4 1/2 years ago. These "extra" requirements are what makes Lawrence so anti-business, period. I am convinced it was a conspiracy to run companies off. In the '90's, we were known as a great city to do business, now we are known as one of the worst in the entire country. Just look how we are last in just about everything, today. Plus the requirements create false vacancies, to back up any assertions that Lawrence is over built - the argument being, "look at all the vacancies." Very crafty indeed by your people. Were you involved in the conspiracy?

putt_putt 5 years, 6 months ago

The definition of irony is the fact that the "greens" in town lost perhaps the largest chance that Lawrence will ever have to be a player in the green energy movement because of their opposition to the SLT.

This first-class well known international company having a presence in Lawrence would have been huge, one of the biggest things to happen in Lawrence in decades, and could have fostered many other KU & Lawrence - German business, engineering, and educational relationships.

Meanwhile some in Lawrence will insist that this is not a loss, and that the lack of SLT was of absolutely no import, or that the company should located somewhere else in Kansas where they have another facility.

Just_another_Bozo stands proudly resolute as a self appointed leader in this movement insisting to all this is not the case, giving equivocation after equivocation. Hurling insult after insult to those who disagree.

I say Bozo has no clothes.

gccs14r 5 years, 6 months ago

I'm sure the Germans knew all about the SLT mess before they even considered us.

putt_putt 5 years, 6 months ago

gccs14r's comment indicates a lack of knowledge about how such a plant siting process works. Besides, equivocation is so much easier than accepting responsibility for this massive lost opportunity for Lawrence.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

You SLT freaks are really fricking entertaining.

A chambocrat functionary has to explain why the ecodevo money they get from taxpayers every year results in diddly-squat, one more one more.

But you'll grasp at whatever lame excuse she throws out just because you think it'll help you get your "deserved" five minutes of convenience, which you only need because you decided to live too far from where you work.

And by god, Kansas taxpayers and Haskell owe it to you to make up for your bad choices.

gccs14r 5 years, 6 months ago

Besides, all this could have been resolved 20 years ago with a SOTR route.

putt_putt 5 years, 6 months ago

"SLT freaks," "chambercrat functionary," my 'deserved' five minutes of convenience," "lame excuse," and Haskell owes something to me? .......???

Just examples of the name calling and demonizing which tells me a lot.

Having worked in several plant siting processes in my past work experience, I can tell Bozo transportation is an extremely important issue especially with a manufacturing facility like the one here. And although gccs14 would like to simply assume away the problem: no, I highly doubt the professionals gathering the necessary survey information had fully evaluated the Lawrence highway situation (or many other issues) before the actual community visit. Frequently this is the first time a siting evaluation team learns the location of the actual parcels, and has an opportunity to evaluate site-specific infrastructure issues. At the same time, it is also sometimes the first time that the local officials are provided strategic information/context about particular needs of the facility or firm. For competitive reasons, firms keep some information very close to the vest and don't share until it is necessary.

And for the record, I live in N. Lawrence and work in Shawnee County. There is no "five minutes" of convenience in any of my views. Your supposition of the reasoning of my views simply reinforces my previously expressed opinions today.

This situation is the definition of irony. And Bozo and gccs14r don't get it.

monkeyhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

"Just examples of the name calling and demonizing which tells me a lot."

bozo says those are accurate descriptions, not petty name calling...

Anyway, the reasoning you gave in your post makes the city's pursuit of the Farmland toxic site (at taxpayer's expense) even more ludicrous. On top of the poisonous, business unfriendly environment, transportation will be a concern for many firms who may even be vaguely interested in the area.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

" I can tell Bozo transportation is an extremely important issue especially with a manufacturing facility like the one here."

So what? If it's all that fired a big deal that that industrial site fit that particular manufacturer's needs, and completing the SLT is the only way to do it, then build south of the river, problem solved.

"And for the record, I live in N. Lawrence and work in Shawnee County. There is no “five minutes” of convenience in any of my views.

So you have absolutely no good reason for insisting that Haskell's wetlands get paved over.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

"Anyway, the reasoning you gave in your post makes the city's pursuit of the Farmland toxic site (at taxpayer's expense) even more ludicrous."

OK, that's gotta be one of most convoluted straw man arguments I've ever seen. Please explain what the city's pursuit of the Farmland site has to do with your interpretation of my last post.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

BTW, putt putt, I really couldn't care less how may secret handshakes you know.

monkeyhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

"Please explain what the city's pursuit of the Farmland site has to do with your interpretation of my last post."

Wow! Chill the ego - I was referring to putt_putt. Notice the quote?

putt_putt 5 years, 6 months ago

Bozo: I didn't realize knowledge equates to "secret handshakes," or could threaten you as it seems.

That is as anti-intellectual as Sarah Palin.

You prove my point precisely.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

The mistake was your failure to write clearly, not my misinterpretation, monkeyhawk.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

Oh come on. You your "knowledge" is merely that you "know how these deals are done." Just because everyone in this community doesn't fall in line with what the "dealmakers" expect in order to facilitate their deals doesn't mean that you get to blame the failure to get this deal done solely on those who oppose paving the Haskell wetlands.

putt_putt 5 years, 6 months ago

Bozo, my experience is from my prior work with a (then) big six related services organization in another state. Included among various other engagements I helped to do the heavy lifting on two, and shared lifting on a third, national site selection process. One in manufacturing, one in logistics/distribution, and one in services. In those projects I worked with local officials in tens of dozens of locations collecting information similar to what I am sure was collected and evaluated here, starting with a long list of locations, and winnowing the list down through a process of research and refinement.

Your pejorative use of the terms "deal" and "dealmaking" says everything both about your biases and lack of knowledge about how these business decisions are made. Your tone seems to continuously be righteous and snide.

My objective was to point out the obvious, the irony of this outcome, based evidently, on people exactly like you. I think you have made my point quite nicely.

You want to equivocate, attack those involved int he process, and attack me. That does not change my point, it only reinforces it.

I will let others judge for themselves what we have exchanged. Good day.

putt_putt 5 years, 6 months ago

It is estimated that the new wind turbine nacelle plant in Hutchinson will create 400 new directly employed quality manufacturing jobs, many skilled and semi-skilled.(That is the number environmentally interested people are quoting)

http://blog.climateandenergy.org/2009/11/27/new-video-hutchinsons-new-wind-turbine-plant/

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

So you're back to the secret handshakes, eh, putt putt?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

"It is really pretty simple."

Yea, right. One size fits all.

gccs14r 5 years, 6 months ago

"You and the other obstructionists have screwed Lawrence long enough. It is not about size. It is about reason. It is about compromise. It is about community."

Then put it south of the river. That's a compromise.

putt_putt 5 years, 6 months ago

blue73harley (Anonymous) says… "It is just hilarious and ironic..." * * * I don't come to this forum enough to understand the hilarity, or who everyone is, but the irony of the situation is spot-on exactly my point. I think anyone who reads these messages, and understands the issue will easily see it, precisely because of the arguments of a couple of the people here who do not.

Lawrence was fortunate to even be on an initial list for such a project. I suspicion that the firm would have settled for a less than perfect solution, and certainly not even near the least-cost solution because of the presence of the university and a highly educated workforce. But some very basic issues, like transportation access, can be show stoppers.

These opportunities are very rare for a community, or a state. I wouldn't expect another one to occur for Lawrence soon, if ever. The Midwest will never have more than a few of these facilities.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

So if this company had said that we didn't get the plant because we lack an international airport, I guess that means we should immediately start construction on one.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

The problem is that the "game" putt putt is such an expert in is a badly broken system for economic development. It entails pitting communities against each in a cutthroat race to the bottom, all hoping to win the lottery prize of a plant like this. But in reality, the only winners in the lottery will be the deal-makers, and the parent company back at the home office-- or more likely, those who win in the endless crapshoot of speculation on the fluctuating value of the stocks of that company.

So Lawrence is the big loser, supposedly because we haven't paved over the wetlands yet. But if we had "won," who knows what sort of abatements were promised, or other major infrastructure improvements, all at taxpayer expense. And what of the other communities in the "final four?" At least two others will be beating themselves up for being such "failures," with many in those communities breathlessly lamenting they hadn't been nearly aggressive enough in the race to the bottom.

Meanwhile, the "winner" will rejoice in the new jobs, only to be wondering a couple of years down the line why their taxes are going up, and they can't afford to fix their potholes or maintain their schools.

putt_putt 5 years, 6 months ago

Bozo: Your disagreement is fundamental. You dislike many aspects about how these decisions are made.

That is just fine. You can choose to work to amend a variety of federal, state, and local laws and regulations to modify this process in an infinite variety of ways.

But can not assume yourself into another dimension where the current laws and processes do not exist. They are the real world in which you live today.

To the degree you believe the current processes are all "games," and "behind the scenes deals," and can not be measured, evaluated, whatever...you would simply prohibit Lawrence from participating in any such plant siting opportunity.

That is just fine, is certainly a valid alternative, but you should articulate it in that way: Lawrence should not participate in plant siting or relocating possibilities. I can see no way from your statements that you believe Lawrence should do so.

Instead, on this thread, you have sought to equivocate about the facts, and equivocate about the importance of these facts to firms. You are simply wrong in that regard. Transportation issues are extremely important for such a facility. Nobody who knows anything about the process would think otherwise. So either you are ignorant of the facts, or choose to disregard/lie about them.

You have attacked my integrity and motives. That is simply juvenile and offensive.

These methods of discussion do not reflect well on you or benefit your stated position. But from reading this thread I fear this may be your standard method.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 5 months ago

"You can choose to work to amend a variety of federal, state, and local laws and regulations to modify this process in an infinite variety of ways."

I'm sure such amendments may be necessary, but given how rigged the political systems in this country are in favor of currently vested interests, your suggesting such a quixotic quest is disingenuous, at best.

"To the degree you believe the current processes are all “games,” and “behind the scenes deals,” and can not be measured, evaluated, whatever…"

If they are otherwise, then why have 99% of all Lawrencians likely heard nothing of this deal until this article?

"Lawrence should not participate in plant siting or relocating possibilities. I can see no way from your statements that you believe Lawrence should do so."

Well, I can see where that might be a valid point of view. But it's not mine. Rather, my point of view is that communities should not allow themselves to be placed in such cutthroat negotiating positions.

"Instead, on this thread, you have sought to equivocate about the facts,"

Really? What "facts" are those? Do you have inside knowledge of the facts, or are you merely taking at face value what you read in the article or in subsequent posts?

"Transportation issues are extremely important for such a facility. "

Of course they are. But what this plant requires is a rather extreme capacity that exists in few places on the planet. To put the blame on the failure to pave the Haskell wetlands so that one spot in Lawrence can satisfy extraordinary transportation requirements is extremely unfair to those who have priorities other than further enriching a few movers and shakers.

"You have attacked my integrity and motives. That is simply juvenile and offensive."'

Oh, grow up. You came here proclaiming expertise, and attempted to use it to bludgeon anyone who disagreed with you.

"These methods of discussion do not reflect well on you or benefit your stated position. But from reading this thread I fear this may be your standard method."

Well, come back again after you've had a good pout.

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