KU task force to focus on retaining students / LJWorld.com

Archive for Sunday, November 8, 2009

November 8, 2009

Kansas University leaders are looking for ways to help retain students like Jon Kletsky.

Kletsky recently left KU after getting that dreaded letter from the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences indicating his grades weren’t up to par.

He’s still focused on going to school and is enrolled in Johnson County Community College to try to get back to KU.

“I didn’t use the resources to my advantage, I feel,” said Kletsky, who still lives in Lawrence. “They keep track of your GPA online, and I thought, ‘Why did I not notice this before?’”

Chancellor Bernadette Gray-Little said the solution to higher retention rates is a complex one and will go well beyond situations like Kletsky’s.

The university plans to address the issue using a new task force that will study the issue and report back by early in the spring semester.

Kathleen McCluskey-Fawcett, director of KU’s honors program, has served on committees that have addressed the issue in past years, and she said research points to one critical factor in determining whether a student will stay in school.

“The student needs to feel connected somehow to the university,” she said.

That can mean different things for different students. For some, it can be an adviser, and for others, it can be a resident assistant in the residence halls.

“It’s kind of ephemeral, but a student knows whether they’re connected or not,” McCluskey-Fawcett said.

She said that having many different avenues for connections, like clubs and organizations, can be important in retaining students.

KU does not have a staff member dedicated to retention efforts — something the task force may examine — and new policies could take the form of changes in different areas of KU that help retain students, including in admissions, advising and enrollment.

Retention rates have been in focus recently, as the Kansas Board of Regents have proposed setting a goal of improving retention rates 10 percent above the national averages of peer institutions in 10 years.

KU’s retention rate for freshmen is 77.5 percent, and the national average is 80 percent.

The focus really needs to go beyond those numbers, Gray-Little said, to focusing on retaining students at all levels until they graduate.

Gray-Little said she’s noticed that several students at KU seem to be interested in pursuing more than one major. She said one potential effort could focus on finding other ways to become very knowledgeable about a topic without spending as much time and effort as on a second major.

“I certainly understand and am really sympathetic toward learning and being knowledgeable,” Gray-Little said. “I don’t think that there are many instances in which having a dual major is going to make all the difference” for someone’s career aspirations.

Alternatives may include students taking large blocks of courses in other departments to encourage them to develop a specialty, Gray-Little said.

She said she appreciated the focus on the regents’ goals, and thought it was wise to include a 10-year timeframe for improvement.

Retention and graduation rates, coupled with improving research capabilities, have formed the crux of Gray-Little’s efforts so far as chancellor. Another committee will be formed to address ways to improve research, she said.

“These two things, to me, address what it means to be a research university,” she said.

Discussion

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8 November 2009
at 12:56 p.m.

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Graczyk (Anonymous) says…

No offense to Jon, but why would a university want to retain a student that is not performing academically? Poor student performance hurts the university's graduation and GPA stats, but can also negatively affect the strong students by lowering classroom expectations.
8 November 2009
at 1:19 p.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Graczyk, you have hit on what is the real purpose of universities today, to make money. The boomers are now infesting the academic world and as usual turning the academic world into mini corporations to enhance their own prestige. Universities are suppose to be for the top academic achievers where they are challenged and pushed to develop but now resources are wasted, look at how many well paid PhD administrators are wasting their time on what shouldn't be an issue, on trying to make it easier for non achievers to keep bringing in the money when they belong in junior colleges. There is no shame in that, an other American trait that is leading to poor results, the idea that only people with four year college degrees are worth anything, so we encourage people to waste time and money at universities who shouldn't be there and don't challenge the ones who should be there as much as they should be.
8 November 2009
at 1:20 p.m.

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davidsmom (Anonymous) says…

Graczyk - I think the goal is not to retain students who perform poorly academically, but to address some of the issues that may be responsible for that poor performance in the first place, such as areas where the University could improve.
8 November 2009
at 1:38 p.m.

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tomatogrower (Anonymous) says…

We've forced our elementary schools and high schools to take on the role of being mommy to these kids, so their parents can be their buddies. Now we want the university to do it. There are plenty of support systems for students at the University, but the students have to go to them. That should not change. If the student isn't ready to help themselves, they aren't ready for University. They need to go away and grow up first. Companies are starting to have to baby this younger generation too. Why is growing up such a dirty word?
8 November 2009
at 1:43 p.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

davidsmom, if a student who is supposedly college prepared can't figure out how to overcome these issues they are not college prepared and most likely no reason to be at a college. First place to start of course is ridding the universities from college sports so you don't draw the kind of sports partiers that have no business at most prestigious academic centers. As a comparison, should we require all academics to spend two years at a trade school learning car mechanics? They won't need it for what their interests are just like the ones going to a university won't need a four year college to degree to become an account rep. We have to come to address the core problem and stop graduating people with PhDs in power point presentations trying to create jobs solving bullcrap issues!
8 November 2009
at 1:52 p.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

KU tries to recruit students by clever techniques such as backward walking tour guides. How impressive is it to a real scholarly minded student to be treated like that? Most of the students are obviously lacking in college skills and spent more time preparing for “catch a husband 101” or “getting drunk at the games 201”. It's a joke that universities, if they want to have any respect in the future, will need to face head on.
8 November 2009
at 3:13 p.m.

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leeroy_johnson (Anonymous) says…

Graczyk:
The problem with the University is that they have lost the mind set that the only reason they exist is to educate the students. They are not a private industry that should be able to make decision's regarding who and who should not get an education. It doesn't matter if a student is on probation. You said “why would a university want to retain a student that is not performing academically?”. Because its their job to help students. That is the only thing the University should be focused on. But with most companies, they have forgotten that the customer is always right. I don't think that we should be focusing on only allowing select people to obtain a better education. If people are having trouble, do what you can to help them instead of just “letting them go”.

JackRipper:
“If a student who is supposedly college prepared can't figure out how to overcome these issues they are not college prepared and most likely no reason to be at a college.” And what are “these” issues? I will tell you one of the issues. The University is the only place you can get a job and not have any qualifications. I have had some teachers at KU that should never be allowed to teach. They may know the subject but have no experience in relaying it on in a helpful way to students. Its not up to the University to pick and choose who they feel is fit to stay. Everybody should be able to get a higher education. It's sad that KU feels their current group of students are not good enough. They only focus on making their rank in the polls.

8 November 2009
at 4:15 p.m.

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gsxr600 (Anonymous) says…

Is he really playing dumb about not knowing what his GPA is? It's on the same freaking page you view your final grades on! C'mon. Blame everyone but yourself, that's the spirit.
8 November 2009
at 4:29 p.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

leeroy_johnson seriously, everyone should be but it should be based on simple criteria that revolves around being able to do the work and figure it out. The majority of people simply aren't up to the cut and the schools should not dumb down in order to make people feel good.
8 November 2009
at 5:28 p.m.

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Graczyk (Anonymous) says…

Leeroy_Johnson,

I think your comparison of a university to a consumer corporation is interesting, but not accurate. If a student does not do his reading for class, if he right? If a student is having trouble with a concept but does not ask for help, is she right? A university is unable to help students who do not prepare. Nor should they. I would wager that most students who flunk out of college do so because of lack of discipline - not because the course work was too hard. Additionally, I am not aware of any institution of higher learning that would refuse help to a struggling student. You can lead a student to a book, but you can't make him read.
8 November 2009
at 5:49 p.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Well said Graczyk. An education should be something a student seeks. Knowledge and the ability to think is what should be the end results of a college education but unfortunately when cheating is rampant and like so many things today a degree is just one more resume enhancement then we really need to look at what we have created and if it will be healthy for the long term of the country. These administrators should be focusing their time on more important questions how to create an institution that fully challenges the brightest and all the others should look at getting into the job force in two years with less debt and for the most part all the education they will need for most the jobs they will be applying for as account reps and sales.
8 November 2009
at 5:58 p.m.

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parrothead8 (Anonymous) says…

leeroy_johnson (Anonymous) says…
Its not up to the University to pick and choose who they feel is fit to stay. Everybody should be able to get a higher education. It's sad that KU feels their current group of students are not good enough.

Really, leeroy? It's not up to the U to pick and choose who gets to stay? Everyone should get a higher education?

So…should universities just let in anyone who applies, and let them stay no matter how they perform?

And don't hand me that line about universities being “the only place” where you don't need qualifications to get a job. Everybody works or has worked at a place where they have co-workers who make them wonder, “Man, how did THAT idiot get a job here?”
8 November 2009
at 6:20 p.m.

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leeroy_johnson (Anonymous) says…

parrothead8:

Why shouldn't everyone have the opportunity to get a higher education?. So yes Really. The scale of performance needs to be monitored not only for students, but teachers as well.

And that line about qualifications is a hand out I will continue to give. To give you a little scope of my thought, lets look into the LAW for the state of Kansas and its requirements for teachers.

Applicant requirements for an initial teaching license
- Bachelor’s degree from a regionally accredited college or university
- Completion of a state-approved teacher preparation program
- Recency - means the applicant must have at least 8 credit hours or one year of accredited teaching experience completed within the last six years
- Content assessment in each of the endorsement areas you were trained to teach and wish to put on your license
- Pedagogy assessment - Principles of Learning and Teaching (PLT)

Now, how many of the teachers fulfill this requirement? Im pretty sure alot of the GTA's don't. Why is this exception allowed at the University level? So just because everyone has had a “how did he/she get this job” moment, doesn't make it right. Ask why, like this task force is trying to do.

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I agree with everyone else that if a student doesn't ask for help it shouldn't be the responsibility of the school to make up for it. But a real example that has happened may explain some, at least 1, of the teachers that are allowed to teach at KU. Just last week one of my teachers said that because he was working late the prior week he would not be in his office during his scheduled office hours because he had already allocated previous time. This was the same week as a 20% exam. It would have been nice to go and ask the teacher some of the questions I had. So instead of being able to go get help, I had to go to the department and see if one of the other teachers would help. This teacher should be fired. If I told my boss that I couldn't stay late when there is a problem because of previous hours worked, I would be fired. I don't dislike the University, but it is far from being perfect. So I do compare the University to a consumer corporation. Their sole reason is to help students. That is it. The University and a lot of companies have forgotten that the customer comes first.
8 November 2009
at 6:45 p.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

leeroy_johnson, glad you aren't one of my students, or you just earned an F.
8 November 2009
at 6:54 p.m.

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leeroy_johnson (Anonymous) says…

beobachter, I don't mean to put down all the teachers. There are some great ones. But I feel like the University as a whole is more concerned with $ than helping the students.

8 November 2009
at 7:01 p.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

leeroy the university isn't a business but unfortunately that is what many want it to be. A university is for those who thirst for knowledge and seek it and the professors help nourish that and not to sit babysitting and getting you ready for the corporate world. It is suppose to be challenging, it is suppose to push people to look for answers, it isn't suppose to be a resume enhancer.
8 November 2009
at 7:12 p.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

Jack, pretty sure leeroy hasn't understood that distinction.
8 November 2009
at 7:32 p.m.

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leeroy_johnson (Anonymous) says…

Jack,
As your description, do you think they are fulfilling that role?

Beobachter,
I really hope you aren't a teacher. But because you said you are, what class do you teach?
8 November 2009
at 7:36 p.m.

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leeroy_johnson (Anonymous) says…

By the way jack, as a place described as “for those who thirst for knowledge and seek it”, why should everyone have to pay for something only a select few desire?
8 November 2009
at 8:03 p.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Gosh I hope I understand your point but I don't think people who don't thirst for it should be going to college. Junior college and vo tech training is what would get the vast majority of people by just fine but unfortunately HR departments at corporations aren't bright enough to determine who has the drive they may seek so use the ol college degree as some kind of indicator of worth. It is bull! There is nothing wrong at all with junior college and technical training, some of the smartest, well rounded people I know come from those programs. One does not need to go $50000 in the hole, cheat in their classes, end up not knowing Iraq from Iran, in order to go into marketing or account rep jobs! College and universities should not be dumbed down because it is the training grounds for the future of our country! Right now we have more undergraduates who care more about what happens on a reality show than they do about the sciences or even the arts. The graduate programs are filled with international students because Americans don't have an appreciation for knowledge like those who really do feel it is a privilege. Many of the Americans in the graduate programs are escaping reality and end up with degrees that put them in charge of figuring out nonsense issues like the one in the story.
8 November 2009
at 8:15 p.m.

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leeroy_johnson (Anonymous) says…

I am going to step out on the ledge here and said that a vast majority of the students at KU attend school because of the requirement you listed above. I agree that its not right. But there are no other options. Employers look for that degree. But you won't see any change because the University doesn't want to see its numbers drop. So that is why I liken it to a business.
8 November 2009
at 8:29 p.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

Yep, it is the saddest part of the whole thing is how universities have become addicted to the money that corporations will send their way if they play the game. It is time to see some real leadership from the educational institutions and say enough is enough. Big time sports programs are the first thing to go if they are serious. Maybe it is also time for students to look into their hearts and decide for themselves what they really want to do and tell ma and pa they are going to do what is right for them instead of just prepare for a life as a cog. How many real passions have been extinguished because of this screwed up system but the good thing if a person is bold enough is they don't have to play and we need more people to stand up and say they aren't going to play.