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Archive for Tuesday, May 26, 2009

KU freshman Jason Wren died of alcohol poisoning, autopsy confirms

Autopsy results confirmed just how much a KU student had to drink prior to his death in March.

May 26, 2009

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A Kansas University freshman found dead in his fraternity house in March died from alcohol poisoning, according to an autopsy report released Tuesday.

Jason Wren, 19, was found dead March 8 after a night of drinking multiple margaritas with friends at a local Mexican restaurant, followed by drinking 10 to 12 beers and carrying around a bottle of hard liquor at the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity house, 1301 West Campus Road, said his father, Jay Wren, of Littleton, Colo.

According to the autopsy, Jason Wren’s blood alcohol concentration was .362 percent at the time of his death — more than four times the state’s legal limit for operating a motor vehicle, .08 percent.

“He was drinking pretty heavily, so that’s not a big surprise,” Jay Wren said.

Wren on Tuesday also said he’s hired attorneys to pursue civil action against those contributing to his son’s death. He would not give specifics but said only that he had no intention of pursuing action against individual members of the fraternity.

Two receipts were found in Jason Wren’s possession when he died, the autopsy report said. Jay Wren said they were from a Mexican restaurant in Lawrence, but he would not identify the establishment. The father also said his son was in possession of a fake ID, though that was not indicated on the autopsy report.

Douglas County District Attorney Charles Branson said he has not received reports from Lawrence police or the state’s Alcohol Beverage Control division in the case; therefore, no criminal prosecution has been considered.

The autopsy report also shed new light on the circumstances leading up to Jason Wren’s death:

• At 2 a.m., Wren “was walked to his bed and placed there by friends,” the autopsy report said.

• About 20 minutes later, he “got out of bed and came back downstairs where he fell asleep again.”

• At 3 a.m., “he was helped back up to his bed and placed there by friends,” investigators said. “There were no more reports of witnesses seeing Mr. Wren after this second time of him being placed in bed.”

• Friends tried to wake up Wren at 2 p.m. March 8, but “found him cold and unresponsive,” the autopsy report said.

• A paramedic pronounced him dead at 2:43 p.m. and said “it appeared that Mr. Wren had been dead for some time.”

Comments

Shardwurm 5 years, 7 months ago

I wish his family the best. One hopes if they pursue civil action that they acknowledge their son's poor choices leading up to this tragedy.

Steve Jacob 5 years, 7 months ago

I am not sure if this is a civil case. Personal choice, to a point. Force the "Mexican restaurant" to close, and put the person who made the fake ID in jail, that sounds good to me. But if it is going to civil court, why not hold the "members of the fraternity" responsible for some of this? I do feel very sorry for your lose Mr. Wren and I hope others learn from this.

KEITHMILES05 5 years, 7 months ago

The father needs to take responsibility also. This kid was a problem before entering the fraternity. To attempt to hold others responsible before his own failure is ridiculous.

wordgenie8 5 years, 7 months ago

It's smart and the right thing to do that KU changed their privacy policy, but too bad it took a tragedy like this to open their eyes.

Eride 5 years, 7 months ago

The only people who seem even remotely liable are his fraternity brothers and the fraternity organization itself.

Stuart Evans 5 years, 7 months ago

I doubt they're going to do well in civil court against the restaurant. If the boy had a fake ID, and it was checked, there really is no recourse. maybe they can find out which of the frat brothers provided the fake ID. Those things don't just appear out of nowhere.

feeble 5 years, 7 months ago

Possession of fake ID = No case.

Granted, the restaurant in question may lose its liquor license, but I imagine that will only come about as action from a complaint to the ABC board.

cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 7 months ago

Sorry for the Wren family's loss.

Like many posters here, I won't be satisfied until I find someone with a pulse who will take the blame and be rightfully shamed in a court of law.

dweezil222 5 years, 7 months ago

wordgenie8 (Anonymous) says…

It's smart and the right thing to do that KU changed their privacy policy, but too bad it took a tragedy like this to open their eyes.

============================

I agree. The smartest thing that can be done is to keep treating adults like toddlers.

d_prowess 5 years, 7 months ago

Also, something that I am sure would come up during any legal proceedings would be the admittance by the father that he went out to a bar with his son during a visit to KU. He admitted that in a UDK story.

Hawk6643 5 years, 7 months ago

I think we all know the restaurant where he was served alcohol at.

I hate to say it, but just because he had a fake ID, doesn't mean that it was used. I know of several underage drinkers that frequent that place specifically because they do not card underage drinkers. You can't tell me they are all going there for the fabulous food!

Ceallach 5 years, 7 months ago

This is a terrible tragedy for the young man and his family, there is no doubt about that. I don't know which restaurant was involved. But I do know that some fake IDs are very difficult to identify. I am troubled by the mentality that desperately seeks a way to place blame on someone other than the only person truly at fault . . the one who illegally seeks, and illegally uses a fraudulent form of identification in order to illegally obtain and illegally consume cereal malt beverage and/or alcoholic liqour. Jason and his family paid a terrible price for his immaturity.

mightyquin 5 years, 7 months ago

There is plenty of blame to go around. If any one person had intervened he may be alive today. So if you must place blame, spread it around, include his own personal responsibility as well.

jenner 5 years, 7 months ago

You know, it seems silly to me that the other posters are looking for someone to blame other than Jason Wren himself. Many of us have drank too much alcohol at one point or another in our lives, and it's always our own decision. No one forced him to drink that much, and since he wasn't showing any signs of alcohol poisoning other than being very drunk, it wasn't their responsibility to seek medical attention either. Jason Wren had a known alcohol problem before entering the SAE fraternity, and whether it happened sooner or much later in life, without help, death was iminent.

I find it somewhat ludicrous for his father to seek legal action against anyone. Jason was kicked out of student housing for his drinking, and his father came right out and said that Jason used to go out drinking with friends in high school. If anyone should be held liable(which I don't believe anyone should), it should be his family for not taking on the responsibility of getting him help or removing him from school.

While it's a terrible tragedy for a father to outlive his son, what exactly is this suit going to accomplish? Kids are always going to drink in college, some of them way too much, as in Jason's case. Unless early action is taken, I see no way in preventing this. Taking up a lawsuit is just silly, and unfortunately is making Mr. Wren seem ill-informed and vengeful.

mom_of_three 5 years, 7 months ago

In the Denver post, "Jason Wren did drink in high school, but it was always with nice kids, Jay Wren said. In hindsight, said Wren, he should have had "zero tolerance" for alcohol for his son." He was allowed to do it in high school, so he thought he could handle more alcohol in college. He was wrong.

KansasVoter 5 years, 7 months ago

"Jay Wren on Tuesday said he’s hired attorneys and is considering pursuing civil action against those contributing to his son’s death."

Oh give me a break! That idiot and his parents are the only ones responsible for his death.

mom_of_three 5 years, 7 months ago

I really feel for the family, as I know what they are going through. You want to blame someone, but you can't, because the one you want to blame is dead. The guilt can be overwhelming.

rorik23 5 years, 7 months ago

It seems like the blame game is moot at this point, but the Wrens have to recognize that their complacency toward their son's drinking is partly responsible. They had an obligation to instill in their son that excessive alcohol consumption can lead to serious injury and death. From other comments and information available, it sounds like the Wrens knew their son had been drinking even in high school and had little problem with it.

Jay Wren's comments and actions at this time appear to be means of avoiding emotionally confronting what has happened and the part he played.

May Jason rest in peace. May his parents, other parents, and all college students recognize that binge drinking is extremely dangerous, and not funny.

fatheadff 5 years, 7 months ago

I feel bad for the family but i am sure that nobody was holding a gun to his head making him drink. And having a fake I.D. shows this probably was not his first time doing so. If the parents want to blame someone blame thier son for poor choices as tragic as it was. Why do they want to close down the restuarant where he had the drinks. If he showed them a fake then its his fault. They are not police and can run everyones ID and make sure it is real. If you want to close down places that take fake I.D's then the only place open in town would be Dairy Queen and Baskin Robbins. Remember the good times with him and try and help others from making the same mistake and not get "SUE" happy like everyone else does.

Cynthia Schott 5 years, 7 months ago

It's a very sad story. I think at the very least, Jason's friends should have recognized that he reached the point where he was essentially no longer consciously drinking. During the process of becoming intoxicated, there is a point where you are really no longer aware of what you are doing. It's a blackout the next day, assuming you survive. Sometimes it's a game seeing how drunk your buddy can get. How about a more active role in becoming your brother's keeper?

Cindy

missmagoo 5 years, 7 months ago

This is a sad story, not a case for a civil suit. My condolences to the family, however, your son was in possession of a fake ID and willingly and knowingly drank that much alcohol. Case closed.

flyin_squirrel 5 years, 7 months ago

My condolences go out to the Wren family. No matter who the blame is placed on, someone lost their life, their son, their classmate and their friend.

Graczyk 5 years, 7 months ago

I hope they don't try to sue to restaurant. A couple of margaritas weren't the problem here. It was the 10-12 beers and the liquor straight from the bottle that did the real damage. The kid had a problem. I remember reading a story (in the UDK I believe) about how the fraternity brothers put Jason to bed only to find him some time later chugging alcohol alone upstairs. (I'm not sure how well the UDK checks its sources....)

I think Jason's memory would be better served (no pun intended) if Wren Sr. pursued other avenues of action. Perhaps classes to educate fraternity brothers (and others) to recognize the signs of a burgeoning alcohol problem? Something like that would have certainly helped some of my friends back in the day. If people know how to intervene properly, they might be more willing to do so.

Eride 5 years, 7 months ago

jenner (Anonymous) says… You know, it seems silly to me that the other posters are looking for someone to blame other than Jason Wren himself.

Eride's response:

I don't think most of the posters here are looking for other people to blame, it seems to me that most people think the idea of suing someone as being rediculous considering it was his choice to consume and he has a history of binge drinking. But it is fair to point out that liability wise... there is a decent chance that you could file a suit against individual fraternity members,the fraternity itself, and possibly even KU. Just pointing out other people played a part in this mans death doesn't mean that people are ignoring the fact that he made the choice.

I just found your post to be amusing because out of all of the posts in this thread I read... pretty much everyone is blaming the man.

Adrienne Sanders 5 years, 7 months ago

Quote: "had alcohol more than four times the legal limit in his blood" and "The maximum legal alcohol limit in Kansas is .08 percent."

For goodness sake people... there is no "legal limit" on how much alcohol you can have in your blood! This is the legal limit TO DRIVE. It's cited to try to give a reference point as to how drunk a person was, but instead it gets used as it is in this article, which is incorrect and irrelevant. Might be better to say something about what happens to your body when your BA is 0.36, or at least specify that .8 is the legal limit for DRUNK DRIVING, not for existing.

Confrontation 5 years, 7 months ago

Ahhhh, the American way. Fail at teaching your kid to be responsible, and then sue others.

jaywalker 5 years, 7 months ago

"I won't be satisfied until I find someone with a pulse who will take the blame"

Moronic, idiotic, just plain ridiculously stupid. 'until I find someone with a pulse' = need a scapegoat to take the fall for someone else's lack of personal responsibility. It's always someone else's fault now, not the idiot who drank 'til he died. I feel bad for his family, there can't be much more difficult than outliving your child. Find the person who held a gun to this kid's head, held him down, and poured the liquor down his throat. THEN you get a 'pulse' to blame. Otherwise grow the funkadelic up.

funkdog1 5 years, 7 months ago

edjayhawk: Were you drinking 3.2 beer? this young man consumed margaritas, beer AND hard liquor.

EVERYONE needs to explicitly explain to their kids that a person can DIE from drinking too much alcohol. There are sooooo many kids who don't seem to know this or think that it's a joke.

notajayhawk 5 years, 7 months ago

dulcinea47 (Anonymous) says…

"Might be better to say something about what happens to your body when your BA is 0.36"

0.02-0.03 BAC: No loss of coordination, slight euphoria and loss of shyness. Depressant effects are not apparent. Mildly relaxed and maybe a little lightheaded.

0.04-0.06 BAC: Feeling of well-being, relaxation, lower inhibitions, sensation of warmth. Euphoria. Some minor impairment of reasoning and memory, lowering of caution. Your behavior may become exaggerated and emotions intensified (Good emotions are better, bad emotions are worse)

0.07-0.09 BAC: Slight impairment of balance, speech, vision, reaction time, and hearing. Euphoria. Judgment and self-control are reduced, and caution, reason and memory are impaired, .08 is legally impaired and it is illegal to drive at this level. You will probably believe that you are functioning better than you really are.

0.10-0.125 BAC: Significant impairment of motor coordination and loss of good judgment. Speech may be slurred; balance, vision, reaction time and hearing will be impaired. Euphoria.

0.13-0.15 BAC: Gross motor impairment and lack of physical control. Blurred vision and major loss of balance. Euphoria is reduced and dysphoria (anxiety, restlessness) is beginning to appear. Judgment and perception are severely impaired.

0.16-0.19 BAC: Dysphoria predominates, nausea may appear. The drinker has the appearance of a "sloppy drunk."

0.20 BAC: Felling dazed, confused or otherwise disoriented. May need help to stand or walk. If you injure yourself you may not feel the pain. Some people experience nausea and vomiting at this level. The gag reflex is impaired and you can choke if you do vomit. Blackouts are likely at this level so you may not remember what has happened.

0.25 BAC: All mental, physical and sensory functions are severely impaired. Increased risk of asphyxiation from choking on vomit and of seriously injuring yourself by falls or other accidents.

0.30 BAC: STUPOR. You have little comprehension of where you are. You may pass out suddenly and be difficult to awaken.

0.35 BAC: Coma is possible. This is the level of surgical anesthesia.

0.40 BAC and up: Onset of coma, and possible death due to respiratory arrest.

These are for most people - those who have developed a tolerance obviously require a higher level for most things on the list. There have been documented cases of people reaching 0.7 or above (and driving - although not very well!).

dweezil222 5 years, 7 months ago

edjayhawk (Anonymous) says…

When I was a Freshman, back in the mid-70's, we had beer busts where you drank as much as you wanted for like a $1. I don't know of anyone dying of alcohol abuse or poisoning, so they must be combining it with something else like high-powered energy drinks

======================================

Beer is sort of self-limiting, and was probably even more so back then, when it was almost definitely 3.2 stuff. You can get drunk on beer alone, for sure, but by and large your stomach gets full before you can elevate your BAC to fatal levels. It's the hard liquor that does people in.

jumpin_catfish 5 years, 7 months ago

Alcohol Abuse = The Great Eraser Erase good judgment Erase your money Erase relationships Erase your health Erase your life

jenner 5 years, 7 months ago

Eride (Anonymous) says…

jenner (Anonymous) says… You know, it seems silly to me that the other posters are looking for someone to blame other than Jason Wren himself.

Eride's response:

I just found your post to be amusing because out of all of the posts in this thread I read… pretty much everyone is blaming the man.

My response: Eride, I agree that most of the posters after my comment were blaming Jason. Prior to my post though, they were not. This is why I posted my comment. Therefore I find your post amusing:)

jenner 5 years, 7 months ago

Besides that, Eride, I was mostly addressing the father for making a poor choice to pursue a suit, I just got off on a rant without differentiating. The couple of posters agreeing with him before me were addressed in my first sentence. My bad, as they say!

bearded_gnome 5 years, 7 months ago

agree w/that, far too much irresponsible drinking by college students!

the dad's suing...just whom? I hope his suit against the restaurant gets thrown out of court: the kid had a false ID, was the restaurant supposed to fingerprint him/line him up, take an hour investigating his ID?

but though I'm kicking the dad, I want to be clear:
* this is a tragedy and I am sad that Jason Wren died. I am sad he felt he needed to drink to excess and failed to take his eviction from student housing as a warning. another life snuffed out far too young, and for what?

because dad let him drink in high school?

because he had some psychological issues and was self-medicating with all that alcohol?

I'd rather Jason were alive now. and I hope that his cohort, at least some of them, get the right message from this tragedy.

there are much better things to do to cope than to drink like that. if you are carrying anxiety, depression etc., see someone. don't use alcohol to cover it up.

cowboy 5 years, 6 months ago

12998 fatalities from drunken drivers in 2008.

We went into a major war over 3000 deaths in New York City

Yet most look the other way when it comes to alcohol abuse

Countless deaths , broken families , damaged lives

If this were a new drug responsible for this killing the nation would be up in arms.

wordgenie8 5 years, 6 months ago

We are our brothers' keepers, no? Aware, caring people have the good judgment to know when to intervene in a perceived problem and when to consider keeping their presumptuous views to themselves. No one was sufficiently alert to Jason's level of alcohol poisoning. Lawsuits and legal issues of any kind just make you relive horrific pain over and over. Usually the only reason they might seem worth it, other than financially I suppose, is if they could set a precedent to help others in the future. Maybe Jason's family could throw their energies into educating college students about the dangers of alcohol abuse and find some healing through that.

jayhawks71 5 years, 6 months ago

Numerous posts have already stated some of the things that I think with regard to who is to blame. However, what I find rather sad is that there is a memorial Facebook group, "In Loving Memory of Jason Wren" within which are numerous photos of him (and others) with beer in hand. One shows him revealing a bottle of Coors in the interior pocket of a tux ( a H.S. prom?), a couple where he is holding a can of Keystone Light in a dorm room, and a couple more where he is holding a beer bottle in the back of a limo. Why would you post these? I would think that at the very least those who are memorializing this boy's short life would not post photos of him with alcohol. Someone have some sense and take these photos down.

Robert Rauktis 5 years, 6 months ago

I think this is occasion for another candlelight vigil.

StirrrThePot 5 years, 6 months ago

"Let's remember he was a legal adult. He made the decision to get a fake i.d. and get himself blind drunk. Being drunk is not a legal defense. He accidentally killed himself. No others are too blame"

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner.

People need to quit blaming the parents and other people for this. Fraternity members maybe, but since most of them were impaired too and therefore not with it enough to see that the kid went well beyond "drinking too much" you can't even blame them. No, I am sorry but this tragedy was self-inflicted. Let's not hang the parents or anyone else out to dry on this one.

My sincerest condolences go out to those who loved this boy, and I am so sorry this happened. May God sees them through this.

redmoonrising 5 years, 6 months ago

I tend to blame Jason himself and here's why. I had a friend who never drank at all until he came to KU on an athletic scholarship. He was an good kid who was raised in a very strict home. Then some friends took him to a bar and he experienced beer for the first time. The beer led to parties with friends where the hard stuff was purchased by the gallons. For years, he and his wife went out drinking at least once a week and got drunk. Then he settled back into beer. He loved it and drank heavily, several each weekday, about a case each weekend day. He's now in his late fifties and his parents still don't have a clue about his drinking. He's been known to drive with open containers in his car. I would never ride with him. What I'm wondering is if parents know, do they realize how serious the problem is? Are they ashamed to get help for their kids? Might mean they need some help themselves. Or they can be blissfully unaware of it all. So again, don't we need to put the blame squarely on the shoulders of these kids who are drinking illegally and know it? Do we blame their friends who drink with them? How can we blame a university when a good portion of the students will drink? How will suing a restaurant where he had only two drinks supposedly solve anything? Are eating and drinking establishments always supposed to spot a fake ID? Wish I had the answers, I don't. It's just a tragedy.

Alfred_W 5 years, 6 months ago

"I would think that at the very least those who are memorializing this boy's short life would not post photos of him with alcohol. "

Perhaps photos of him without alcohol are in short supply. Just sayin'

jayhawks71 5 years, 6 months ago

Alfred_W, there were over 90 photos posted in the group. I just think the few photos that included alcohol and people looking drunk were in bad taste for a memorial group. I wouldn't be surprised if someone who were to be sued would even use those in court.

katjok 5 years, 6 months ago

In my opinion, no parties that provided alcohol, or such are to blame. It's just like if a drunk driver passed away by getting into an wreck. As tragic as it is, it's still just poor judgment. I hope the new KU policy & Jason Wren's death will prevent others from making the same mistake.

BigPrune 5 years, 6 months ago

Not trying to sound crass to this terrible tragedy, but if the legal drinking age were reduced back down to 18, I wonder if these underage kids who have to go full boar at drinking when they get the chance would have a higher tolerance level to alcohol if they were able to drink on a more regular basis. I wonder if it would also curb binge drinking.

As for suing someone, it shouldn't just be the restaurant where the margaritas were consumed, it should be the fraternity as well where the beers were consumed and hard liquor.

introversion 5 years, 6 months ago

So, let me get this straight... There's allegedly some question as to whether a legitimate business went through proper channels in IDing a supposed adult for drinking-

And we ALL know that there's never any illegal drinking that goes on at frat houses...

So then, did he use is fake ID with all his "friends" at the frat house? Is that why they thought it was ok for him to walk around with a bottle of J.D.?

I would never wish this situation on anyone, but let's quit passing the buck here.

Erin Parmelee 5 years, 6 months ago

jayhawks71 (Anonymous) says…

Numerous posts have already stated some of the things that I think with regard to who is to blame. However, what I find rather sad is that there is a memorial Facebook group, “In Loving Memory of Jason Wren” within which are numerous photos of him (and others) with beer in hand. One shows him revealing a bottle of Coors in the interior pocket of a tux ( a H.S. prom?), a couple where he is holding a can of Keystone Light in a dorm room, and a couple more where he is holding a beer bottle in the back of a limo. Why would you post these? I would think that at the very least those who are memorializing this boy's short life would not post photos of him with alcohol. Someone have some sense and take these photos down.

Actually, I would be in favor of leaving them up. That is the reality of the situation. He was a young man who died related to drinking. Drinking was a part of who he was. I don't like the idea that after death we need to tidy-up people's images so they meet the standard we think they should. What is the problem with acknowledging the cold hard truth?

jayhawks71 5 years, 6 months ago

In the case of a memorial, it's tacky, that's what's wrong with it.

jenner 5 years, 6 months ago

redcoalcarpet (Anonymous) says…

Actually Jenners, “being passed out” IS a sign of alcohol poisoning and if it wasn't the fraternity brothers at SAE's responsibility to seek medical attention for him then who should have?? We are all our brother's and sister's keepers.

Your comments in this forum lead me to believe that maybe you are in denial of an alcohol problem of your own. Please open your eyes and don't be the next alcohol related fatality at the University of Kansas

My response: Hah! Well, way to be presumptious, redcoalcarpet. I very rarely drink. I don't drink at home at all, and in the 2 years I've lived in Lawrence, I have gone out maybe 5 or 6 times, tops. I don't enjoy the taste of most alcohol, and very much dislike not being in control of myself. When I do have a couple of drinks on a night out, it makes me VERY tired, so i usually crash right when i get home. Just because someone goes to sleep after drinking, even heavily, doesn't mean you should automatically rush them to a hospital. Now, I disagree with heavy drinking. I personally think it is a waste of time and money. I don't however, feel it is anyone's responsibility but their own to control their behavior. If you choose to drink that much, then you're choosing your own fate.

introversion 5 years, 6 months ago

bearlybrewed-

Let me spell my previous comment out a little more clearly-

What probably happened is that Jason went to the restaurant, and upon being carded, showed them his fake ID, which he probably got from a fraternity resource. After tricking the restaurant into serving him drinks, He probably went back to the frat house and drank more booze illegally, along with other frat members who were illegally drunk. At the end of the night, his "brothers" were either too drunk themselves to recognize that he probably needed medical attention, or they didn't want to risk their own well-being to see that he was tended to.

This is a completely tragic situation, for which I am sincerely sorry for those involved.

It just doesn't look very good for our brothers in the SAE house, and going after what's probably a lawful business establishment isn't going to do anything significant.

Erin Parmelee 5 years, 6 months ago

jayhawks71 (Anonymous) says…

In the case of a memorial, it's tacky, that's what's wrong with it.

The truth is tacky?

Linda Aikins 5 years, 6 months ago

For Redmoonrising: From your March 11 post:

"My ex on the other hand grew up in a teetotaller family. Never once did alcohol touch their lips. When he came to college, he learned to drink with his buddies. Then he learned to drink more….and more until he ended up an alcoholic. And the funny part is that he is now in his 50's and his parents still don't have a clue that he drinks. I cringe every time I hear his parents boast about their son who doesn't drink or smoke, never has. I won't tell them. So I, for one, think it's possible that these parents really didn't know about the extent of his drinking."

Now you post the same copy-and-paste dribble and say it is a "friend." But from the original post, that makes you the wife. And I also think you should be ashamed for posting these lies. You haven't spoken to his parents for YEARS and your ex hardly drinks anymore. Wonder why he drank so much when married to you? After reading over your posts, I know why.....

Stop posting all your little stories that bash and slam on your ex. Get over all your anger and move on. It's bad enough we have to read all about your aches and pains all the time. Leave the family out of it.

Rickyonealku 5 years, 6 months ago

Every parent fears something like this happening in the freshman year of college.

I just pray for the Jason Wren family and friends can understand that if a college student was forced to drink or ever take drugs that is another issue. But in this case was he forced to drink????

No jury in Douglas County, Kansas will after all facts (and I only know that an under age KU student is now deceased) find only one KU freshman who was an under age drunk plus have a fake ID in his or her possession at Kansas University.

Linda Aikins 5 years, 6 months ago

And to stay on subject, I'm so sorry all this happened. There definitely was a crack somewhere that he fell through. Pointing fingers and blaming won't bring this young man back, who was obviously very well liked and had a whole life ahead of him.

My heart goes out to his family. I'm very sorry you lost Jason.

bangaranggerg 5 years, 6 months ago

That frat house would better serve the university and community as a parking lot.

SvenwayPark 5 years, 6 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

rgh 5 years, 6 months ago

This is a true tragedy, but I hope that the family has strong eveidence when filing a civil suit. The other students with him that fateful night sound more at fault than anything especially if he had a fake ID or if his "friends" were buying the alcohol and then giving it to him.

If he had a fake ID, then it appears this is another frivilous attempt to get money and a lawyer trying to get his/her cut. Despite that being said, may God bless his family for this horrible loss of their son.

notajayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

HodgePodge (Erin Parmelee) says…

"I don't like the idea that after death we need to tidy-up people's images so they meet the standard we think they should. What is the problem with acknowledging the cold hard truth?"

Gee, I dunno. If he'd blown his brains out would you find it appropriate to have pictures of him brandishing a gun? Twirling a lasso if he'd hung himself?


redcoalcarpet (Anonymous) says…

"Did it ever occur to anyone that they might be trying to affect change?"

How exactly would it change their own attitudes, that allowed him to drink in high school as long as he only drank with the nice folks?

SvenwayPark 5 years, 6 months ago

I agree a life cut this short is sad. first step is to pull the charter from the house.just shut it down.done. make an example for all the greeks to see.

Erin Parmelee 5 years, 6 months ago

notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…

HodgePodge (Erin Parmelee) says…

“I don't like the idea that after death we need to tidy-up people's images so they meet the standard we think they should. What is the problem with acknowledging the cold hard truth?”

Gee, I dunno. If he'd blown his brains out would you find it appropriate to have pictures of him brandishing a gun? Twirling a lasso if he'd hung himself?

Um, yes. It would be the truth. Why is that so scary?

jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

"first step is to pull the charter from the house.just shut it down.done. make an example for all the greeks to see."

Yes, because this is an isolated incident, systemic of the Greek system. Students outside Greek society never drink to excess. And it would automatically stop other frat and sorority members from ever drinking again. People always pay heed to former examples. It only took one case of AIDS or VD for everyone to take notice and practice safe sex. Once that first guy got thrown in jail for drinking and driving it's never happened since. The first gang banger executed stopped all the others from bangin'.

Absolutely you're right. Shut down the frat, that'll learn 'em.

rousseau108 5 years, 6 months ago

"According to the autopsy, Jason Wren’s blood alcohol concentration was .362 percent at the time of his death — more than four times the state’s legal limit for operating a motor vehicle, .08 percent."

Actually, since he was only 19, his legal limit for driving would be .02%, so he was 18 times the limit, not just 4.

notajayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

HodgePodge (Erin Parmelee) says…

"Um, yes. It would be the truth. Why is that so scary?"

You must be a really comforting presence at wakes and funerals, hodge.

21_F_KUSTUDENT 5 years, 6 months ago

To the Wren family: I am so very sorry for your loss, I can't even imagine what you're going through right now.

But you need to realize that there is nothing that can come from you "taking legal action against those responsible," because the person responsible for Jason's death was Jason. He made the decision to go to the restaurant, to drink all the beers, and to chug the hard alcohol. I GUARANTEE you that NONE of his pledge brothers or fraternity brothers forced him to drink, nor did anyone else force him to drink.

Mr. Wren's speech at his son's memorial at KU was also extremely distasteful . I was there to support my friends in the house and to show my support for the greek community. Mr Wren saying, "You have to protect each other if you're going to call yourselves brothers!" basically says to me, "you failed at being a friend and now you'll never live past it." Now, threatening with a lawsuit and lawyers, Mr. Wren has yet to recognize that the guys in the fraternity are absolutely 100% INNOCENT.

I just hope that Mr. Wren and his family come to their senses and they stop talking to the press and making ridiculous comments, drop any ideas of taking legal action against anybody, and to let the KU students attempt to get closure on this matter. It's not helping ANYONE to have a news blast coming from Mr. Wren saying that he's going to file lawsuits soon. You should be hanging your head not throwing such personally-attacking comments out at others.

Instead of causing more pain and heartache, why don't you advocate for more education on alcohol abuse. Millions of people are suffering because of alcohol-related incidents, but if more people get out there to spread the word, maybe less people will suffer. Do something meaningful with your time.

Honestly, I'm not much of a drinker because my parents set examples for me and always educated my on the dangers. My parents would NEVER have gone out to the bars with me, nor would they have been comfortable with me drinking in high school, no matter how "nice" my drinking buddies were. I got caught once or twice in high school and boy were my parents mad! They really wanted me to know that they did not approve of me drinking alcohol because it is so dangerous and it is plainly and simply, not a smart thing to do in high school. My parents were extremely protective of me, and they still are, and I really appreciate that. I don't need my mom to be my drinking buddy or for my dad to be the one I go to bars with, I need them to be role models, to set examples, to teach me things I don't know, and advise me in situations I'm unexperienced with. I need parents in my life. I don't need another friend. I think that's where so many parents go wrong- being too much of a buddy and not enough of a protector.

tom_bodett 5 years, 6 months ago

I think the lawsuit will fail. It should fail anyway.

Unless the kid was being held down and force fed alcohol, he is the only one to blame. Tragic...yes. Preventable...yes!

wyattearp2 5 years, 6 months ago

I am still trying to figure out why LPD or the Bar Owners come up in this converstion. I've been bar hopping and watched the door men throw people out and take there fake ID's and I have also seen the Police carding people, taking ID's and issuing tickets.

But this comes down to one thing, the parents lack of parenting. This drunk behavior starts in high school or before and you want to blame society, get real. Either parent, or don't reproduce......

SvenwayPark 5 years, 6 months ago

jaywalker notice i said pulling the charter would be the first step...not the solution. much needs to be done about the alcohol abuse among kids in this age group.

jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

Sorry, Sven. Pulling the charter will do nothing. It's not a 'step', it would be an inconsequential 'reaction' with all the impact of shooting bb's at a tank. This incident has little to nothing to do with the fraternity or the Greek system and everything to do with persoanl responsibility. Wren is to blame. Noone else.

Erin Parmelee 5 years, 6 months ago

notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…

HodgePodge (Erin Parmelee) says…

“Um, yes. It would be the truth. Why is that so scary?”

You must be a really comforting presence at wakes and funerals, hodge.

Okay, so you took a jab at me, but you didn't answer my question. I'm guessing your position is that it is your preference people's image be cleaned up post mortem so everyone can feel better about themselves? If I'm wrong, let me know. Like I said, I'm guessing since my question wasn't answered.

I haven't attended many wakes or funerals where people try to pretend like the person was someone or something he/she wasn't, so I can't comment to that. I have been tagged to give a eulogy twice though, so I must not be that bad.

Jim Williamson 5 years, 6 months ago

This kid's dad is going to make even more of a clown of himself, desperately searching for someone -- anyone -- that he can point a finger at just so he can avoid looking in a mirror. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that this poor kid learned it was okay to drink like a boob somewhere, and it happened long before he ever even heard of Oliver Hall and Sigma Alpha Epsilon.

I can't imagine losing a child, especially like this, but spending all this time trying to assign blame is just dragging it No amount of money will bring your son back, and when it comes to a civil suit, it's all about recouping money.

There are so many more positive things he could be doing in light of this tragedy.

jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

"I have been tagged to give a eulogy twice though, so I must not be that bad."

Sure you have. I'm certain friends and family are clamoring for you to speak on the deceased's irresponsibilty and the factors that contributed to his death. Why, it's the 'truth', who wouldn't appreciate that?

bangaranggerg 5 years, 6 months ago

I wonder if Woodling will be tagged to give Tisdale's eulogy. I'm guessing no.

TobiasFunke 5 years, 6 months ago

Just because something is the truth doesn't mean it isn't poor taste.

Maybe the newscast should have include a picture of the kid doing a beer bong so everyone would know the truth (and have a great lasting image).

Erin Parmelee 5 years, 6 months ago

jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

“I have been tagged to give a eulogy twice though, so I must not be that bad.”

Sure you have. I'm certain friends and family are clamoring for you to speak on the deceased's irresponsibilty and the factors that contributed to his death. Why, it's the 'truth', who wouldn't appreciate that?

I have been fortunate that my friends and family that have passed haven't done so as a result of their own irresponsibility. Nor did I indicate at any time that someone should bad mouth this boy. What I said is that trying to erase from his Facebook page all pictures of him even touching a can of beer seems rather nonsensical.

Do you ever watch the news? Remember when those boys shot up Columbine? All the pictures of them with guns, etc. It's the same thing. Just because we wish it wasn't true, doesn't change the fact that it is.

My only point is that people are who they are--in death, as well as life.

jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

"What I said is that trying to erase from his Facebook page all pictures of him even touching a can of beer seems rather nonsensical."

In that context, Erin, I gotcha. I rescind my sarcasm, my apologies.

notajayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

HodgePodge (Erin Parmelee) says…

"Okay, so you took a jab at me, but you didn't answer my question."

Yes, I did; you just didn't like the answer (or maybe you just didn't understand it). There is an appropriate time for truth and an appropriate time for sympathy, kindness, and support. Or do you think it would be appropriate to go up to someone whose face was horribly disfigured and say 'Gee, I'd throw up if I had to look at that in the mirror every day?'

The fact that it is the truth about how he died is not a justification for rubbing it in the faces of those mourning his loss, who might want to use that particular time to remember the happier side of his life, not the tragic circumstances of his loss.

"I have been tagged to give a eulogy twice though, so I must not be that bad."

Then again, you said later that "I have been fortunate that my friends and family that have passed haven't done so as a result of their own irresponsibility." So it's not quite the same, is it? Keep hoping, though - maybe you'll get the opportunity you seem to be chomping at the bit for to tell the ugly truth about someone at your next eulogy.

Erin Parmelee 5 years, 6 months ago

notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…

HodgePodge (Erin Parmelee) says…

“Okay, so you took a jab at me, but you didn't answer my question.”

Yes, I did; you just didn't like the answer (or maybe you just didn't understand it). There is an appropriate time for truth and an appropriate time for sympathy, kindness, and support. Or do you think it would be appropriate to go up to someone whose face was horribly disfigured and say 'Gee, I'd throw up if I had to look at that in the mirror every day?'

The fact that it is the truth about how he died is not a justification for rubbing it in the faces of those mourning his loss, who might want to use that particular time to remember the happier side of his life, not the tragic circumstances of his loss.

“I have been tagged to give a eulogy twice though, so I must not be that bad.”

Then again, you said later that “I have been fortunate that my friends and family that have passed haven't done so as a result of their own irresponsibility.” So it's not quite the same, is it? Keep hoping, though - maybe you'll get the opportunity you seem to be chomping at the bit for to tell the ugly truth about someone at your next eulogy.

You're the one who made this about funerals and eulogies. If you go back and look at my original post, you will see that my point was about a Facebook page, and trying to re-write this kids history after the fact. I stand by what I said.

jayhawks71 5 years, 6 months ago

In the case of a memorial, it's tacky, that's what's wrong with it. –––––––––––––––––––––––

The truth is tacky?


What precludes a truth from being tacky? Tacky is in the presentation, not the veracity of a claim.

notajayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

HodgePodge (Erin Parmelee) says…

"You're the one who made this about funerals and eulogies. If you go back and look at my original post, you will see that my point was about a Facebook page, and trying to re-write this kids history after the fact. I stand by what I said."

I never believed for a moment that you'd change your opinion.

Yes, I brought up funerals and eulogies - you brought up your crusade for truth in response to a post about memorializing this young man's death. That tends to fall into the same category as funerals and eulogies.

As jayhawks71 mentioned, when it comes to truth and tacky, the two are not mutually exclusive. Your defense of the facebook memorial page may fall into the realm of truth, but you definitely outdo it in tacky. The people who posted the pictures just may not have thought it through (maybe their mind was on something else at the time). Your defense of the pictures is deliberate.

Try having a little class.

Erin Parmelee 5 years, 6 months ago

notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…

HodgePodge (Erin Parmelee) says…

“You're the one who made this about funerals and eulogies. If you go back and look at my original post, you will see that my point was about a Facebook page, and trying to re-write this kids history after the fact. I stand by what I said.”

I never believed for a moment that you'd change your opinion.

Yes, I brought up funerals and eulogies - you brought up your crusade for truth in response to a post about memorializing this young man's death. That tends to fall into the same category as funerals and eulogies.

As jayhawks71 mentioned, when it comes to truth and tacky, the two are not mutually exclusive. Your defense of the facebook memorial page may fall into the realm of truth, but you definitely outdo it in tacky. The people who posted the pictures just may not have thought it through (maybe their mind was on something else at the time). Your defense of the pictures is deliberate.

Try having a little class.

Considering you're personally attacking me for a difference of opinion, I'd suggest taking your own advice.

Loretta James 3 years, 8 months ago

looking for someone to blame look at these post almost everyone is blaming somone

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