Archive for Wednesday, March 4, 2009

City Commission will take up renaming Missouri Street north of Memorial Stadium

A bitter rivalry and a respected coach could prompt city leaders to change the name of a Lawrence road.

March 4, 2009, 9:59 a.m. Updated March 4, 2009, 6:37 p.m.

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Missouri St. renaming proposal resurfaces

Commissioner Sue Hack discusses the possibility of renaming a portion of Missouri Street at Tuesday night's meeting. Enlarge video

On the street

Should the city rename part of Missouri Street after former football coach Don Fambrough?

With the economy the way it is today, I think it would be more practical to wait … and name a street in a new area rather than change maps and all that different information.

More responses

Maybe it was Sunday’s thrashing of Missouri on the hardwoods that brought this idea up again.

Whatever it was, city commissioners soon may consider renaming two blocks of Missouri Street to honor former Kansas University football coach and eternal Missouri-hater Don Fambrough.

Commissioner Sue Hack on Tuesday night asked city staff to place the issue on a future agenda item before she leaves office on April 14.

The idea is to rename just the portion of Missouri Street that leads into KU’s Memorial Stadium — basically the section from Ninth to 11th streets.

The idea has come up before, but it’s never gained enough traction. Concerns about residents having to change their mailing addresses have been mentioned. The street is also in an old part of town, and part of Lawrence’s history is its street names.

But Hack said she’s had several people ask her about the change, and she would like an up or down vote on the idea before she leaves office. She’s not seeking re-election.

Chris Kennedy moved to the 900 block of Missouri Street about a week ago. He said he thought renaming the section of street would be a fitting tribute to coach Fambrough. “I’m 100 percent for it,” he said. “Don Fambrough is a Lawrence legend and a hero, and he deserves to be honored.”

Comments

hipper_than_hip 6 years, 5 months ago

Has the city commission got nothing better to do?

bluerose 6 years, 5 months ago

how dumb.

just leave the street alone.

Kevin Sontag 6 years, 5 months ago

If they can rename half of 15th Street "Bob Billings Parkway", they can change two blocks of Missouri Street to "Fambrough Way".

tigerforlife 6 years, 5 months ago

typical classless, grade-school maturity from Lawrence city gov...

go to the "life" store and make as big a purchase as you can...

Gareth Skarka 6 years, 5 months ago

I'm sure this will go over as well as "Bob Billings Parkway" -- which everybody still calls "15th Street."

Seriously -- you've got more important things to do. Stop being such a joke.

Jersey_Girl 6 years, 5 months ago

Again, this is a ridiculous idea. If the city/university wants to change the name of a street to honor someone associated with KU, then change one of the names on campus. I'm not a KU football fan, but if I remember correctly from last time ths came up, Fambrough wasn't even that great a coach. Change Mangino's new practice fields to Fambrough fields. How about Daisy Hill? If I remember correctly, Bob Billings contributed to money to KU, yet about 1/2 of Lawrence since refer to Bob Billings Pkwy as 15th Street.(I know I do). If Lawrence residents didn't feel the need to change the name after Quantril's Raid, then I don't think something so dumb as a football rivalry is an adequet reason to do it now.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 6 years, 5 months ago

This is great, the commission shows some signs of life!! Really difficult issues like this one need the combined brain-power of all our elected officials. They cannot grasp the stupidity of roundabouts, they announce that they are going to "discuss" the problem of alchol and rape, they need something to soothe their brains, and this absolutely meaningless issue is grist for the grand intellectual capability we expect from our government.

hip_gma 6 years, 5 months ago

Dumb idea. How confusing to visitors trying to get around town. Let's grow up. This would only make us stoop to MU's level. Use the $ for changing the street signs to something more worthy.

Boston_Corbett 6 years, 5 months ago

If this is such a great idea, they should do it for the entire street, north to south.

They won't.

They are just picking on these two blocks because there are so few owner occupied houses.

Embarrassing. You should be ashamed Sue!

james bush 6 years, 5 months ago

Has anyone that lives on Missouri Street been asked if that's what they want?

Boston_Corbett 6 years, 5 months ago

Actually Gareth has the correct view... 15th is 15th. Not Bob Billings.

If I had a nickle for everytime I have to explain to someone from out of town how to get to somewhere in West Lawrence via that road, I would be rich. You have to go through the whole thing, because nobody understands how 15th street isn't 15th street. And they don't care who Bob Billings is.

Bob Billings was a hell of a good guy. Fambrough.. nice coach, colorful personality. But this street renaming stuff is beyond asinine.

bigjaybabyjay 6 years, 5 months ago

It is a seldom used street that leads to Memorial Stadium. I say name it after Coach Fam!

For those who get so angry over this get a life. Unless you live on that street it won't affect you in any way. You are the grumpy old farts that people in the neigborhood avoid.

justforfun 6 years, 5 months ago

bigjaybabyjay There have been many good examples of why not to rename the street. . "How confusing to visitors trying to get around town. Let's grow up. This would only make us stoop to MU's level. Use the $ for changing the street signs to something more worthy." I'm sure this will go over as well as “Bob Billings Parkway” — which everybody still calls “15th Street.” Has the city commission got nothing better to do? Just to name a few. Crawl out of your big mythical bird costume and join the rest of the world!

Joel Hood 6 years, 5 months ago

Wow, I agree with bigjaybabyjay.... It really surprises me how many responses are so angry. This idea has been around for some time and I always thought it was a fun suggestion - nothing more or less. Sometimes fun ideas are best during down times - like now. Renaming a street has no bearing on the other issues facing the city commission. I understand there are some costs and inconveniences involved, but really, one more opportunity to stoke the rivalry with those slave-lovin', murderin', bush-whackers sounds good to me.

bigjaybabyjay 6 years, 5 months ago

I forgot how many visitors I will be guiding down Missouri Street this year.... Bob Billings is a major trafficway and a different issue. As for the cost...4-8 street signs won't break the city. If it does then we should have concerns about the commission.

woodenfleaeater 6 years, 5 months ago

I'm with kubacker on this. They should name it:

foul-mouthed ignorant hillbilly parkway.

Thanks kubacker. I laugh every time I read that post.

KUbsee69 6 years, 5 months ago

Comments all seem to connect this to KU. Yea, it partially is, but how can anyone want a street named after the state that Quantrill came from? If there's a problem with naming it after Coach Fam, then name it something against missouri.

mom_of_three 6 years, 5 months ago

We have Clinton Pkwy, which most people refer to as 23rd street. There is Bob Billings Pkwy, which most people refer to as 15th street. Why not rename part of Missouri, which leads to Memorial stadium for Don Fambrough? It doesn't seem like a totally bad idea.
Or it could be referred to as "Don Fambrough way." In my hometown, the street in front of the high school is referred to as "Bulldog Blvd" with a couple of street signs posted to celebrate school spirit. But the mail addresses of the few business and people who live on the street has not changed.

Richard Heckler 6 years, 5 months ago

Isn't there a local janitor who deserves some recognition?

TecmoSuperBowlChristianOkoye 6 years, 5 months ago

Why Fambrough? Did he accomplish anything noteworthy outside of hating Missouri?

remember_username 6 years, 5 months ago

Wow, how childish can you get? The human race never ceases to amaze me. Imagine if it passes - Lawrence KS makes News-of-the-Weird again. This time after a Missouri street resident sues the city and challenges Eminent Domain in the courts. And after a judge rules to hold an entire city in contempt for vindictive stupidity.

mom_of_three 6 years, 5 months ago

Quantrill was actually from Ohio, but he was fighting for/from Missouri when he raided Lawrence.

mom_of_three 6 years, 5 months ago

"John Brown Way"

Uh, NO. If the man actually lived in Lawrence, than maybe. But he didn't.

Jersey_Girl 6 years, 5 months ago

If giving directions when directing people from 15th to Bob Billings and from 23rd to Clinton Parkway, which are several miles of street are confusing, how confusing is it going to be to give directions to 2 or 3 blocks of a renamed street? "Go to Missouri Street, which turns into Fambrough Street for 2 blocks and then turns back into Missouri Street..." Not only is it confusing to out-of-towners, but it makes the people of Lawrence look like jackasses. How many people are going to know who Fambrough is anyway? I had to Google Bob Billings just to find out what made him so special to have part of 15th Street renamed after him. When I found out it didn't have to do with Lawrence but with KU, I was really pissed.

woodenfleaeater 6 years, 5 months ago

mom_of_three, if you are referring to the Ark City Bulldogs, I have lost a lot of respect for you.

mom_of_three 6 years, 5 months ago

I am, and what's it to you? Why, are you from Winifield?

woodenfleaeater 6 years, 5 months ago

Wouldn't it be more appropriate if Mangino had a round a bout in his name?

geniusmannumber1 6 years, 5 months ago

Seriously, people. Pull the sticks out. This is fun. I mean, be for or against; the only completely inappropriate reaction here is anger/indignance.

Jersey_Girl 6 years, 5 months ago

KU is better know for its basketball than it its football. We have Naismith Drive (attached to KU, I might add). KU has Allen Fieldhouse but we don't have any "Phog" Allen streets. Maybe if we had football history like Nebraska or Oklahoma, a street named after a football coach would be appropriate.

Also, I find it disdainful that the only reason people want to change the name of the street is because of the hatred Fambrough had for Missouri. That is one of the most immature and unevolved reasons I can think of to rename anything.

mom_of_three 6 years, 5 months ago

Aw, woodenfleaeater, man, you didn't have to tell me you were from Winny-field. When you did graduate?

mom_of_three 6 years, 5 months ago

Jersey Girl - 15th Street was renamed for Bob Billings because of what he did for his community, and not for his time at KU.
From previous LJWorld article ""This is the least we can do," said Frank Salb, president of Salb Construction Inc. "He developed 3,000 acres in Lawrence. He built two golf courses. He brought a lot of high-tech businesses to Lawrence. And he's given so much to the community. He's given to a lot of charitable organizations in the community." Not sure what the heck you googled, but I think you did it wrong.

Jersey_Girl 6 years, 5 months ago

So, genius, what would you suggest is the appropriate reaction?

mdfraz 6 years, 5 months ago

I've only read about half the comments, but I can't wait any longer to respond.

To those who are afraid that stupid people can't figure out the change in the street name for a few blocks, get a map. Plus, how do you defend 15th/Bob Billings and 23rd/Clinton Pkwy? Same idea.

To those who don't care about sports, or KU the school, or a combination of the two, why does anyone care what your feelings are if you really have no dog in the fight? I don't go around saying that everyone has to be a sports fan, or that that's the only important issue in the world, so where do you get off trashing people who want to recognize a well known Lawrence sports personality? You don't like football? Fine. Don't tell those who do what they should or shouldn't support just b/c you think it's a silly sport. Logic, your screenname is a misnomer.

For the people who think the city commission shouldn't discuss the issue, or that this is somehow preventing them from addressing more "important" issues in your mind, get real. If you can identify an issue that would have been on the agenda for a particular meeting that now isn't because of this proposal, I'd love to see it.

And Lawrence changing the name of a few blocks of a street near the football stadium to honor a former football coach.........wow, yeah, I bet everybody in the country will think we are ridiculously stupid. Good God, you think this would be the only time a street somewhere is named after a sports figure, or movie star, or musician, or writer, or anyone else famous?

It blows my mind that there are so many people who have nothing else to complain about besides a few street signs changing. barrypenders has it right. Take a deep breath folks, it will be ok.

BigAl 6 years, 5 months ago

"Lighten up Francis"....
Come on people, life isn't always about boredom and serious issues. I think it is a great idea. Rename it before fall and before the football season starts up again. Have some fun with it.

Jersey_Girl 6 years, 5 months ago

Sorry, mom. My information just said that he made large donations to KU as an alumni. I just also think that if we are going to honor someone by naming a street after him/her, we should give them a new street, not just slap their name on an old street and call it good. Lawrence is growing by leaps and bounds and there is no reason a new street couldn't be dedicated to memorialize someone.

mdfraz 6 years, 5 months ago

Jersey, probably the most important reason those few blocks were chosen is exactly because of their current location directly north of the football stadium. Naming a street in the 6500 block of West 6th Street doesn't really have the same effect.

Linda Aikins 6 years, 5 months ago

OK. How many of you actually know Coach Fambrough? He is a wonderful and kind man who has lots of reasons to dis Missouri. He already has been honored with a bench on the hill overlooking the stadium. Why? Because his players loved him and were asked to donate. They received almost 10 times more than the amount they needed to build the bench.

He does so much for KU and Lawrence. I personally feel very very fortunate to know him and have him in my life. I do not like the hillbilly talk about him, but you are entitled to your opinion. If you said this to his face, he would just laugh and say you were right! I love this man dearly and would support this in all the ways that I can. He thinks it's a bunch of pooey too, by the way. But that's him being his humble self.

Please City Commission - do this! I will drive out of my way to avoid Missouri street, but would swing around again to hit the stretch named after Coach.

mdfraz 6 years, 5 months ago

BEAUTIFULLY said TrooGrit. It's easier to complain and tear down other people's ideas than to come up with solutions on your own.

And Gootsie, I know Coach Fam a bit too, and he is one of the friendliest most personable people I've met in 12 years in Lawrence. Even though I didn't know him well, and in his advanced age, I saw him just a couple weeks ago, and he remembered who I was, even though I wasn't even a player on the football team when I met/talked with him occasionally.

Jersey_Girl 6 years, 5 months ago

md - most maps aren't big enough to clearly mark the 2 or 3 blocks of Missouri that would be renamed. And it is obvious you skimmed the posts because there have been posts by people less than pleased that part of 23rd was changed to Clinton Pkwy (although that one makes the most sense since it leads to Clinton Lake) and 15th to Bob Billings. Should the people who hated Bill Clinton change Clinton Parkway's name (even though it was named before his presidency?)?

sevenyearhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Change it!

it's absolutely horrible that this state street, of all of them, is so close to the football stadium ...

mdfraz 6 years, 5 months ago

I understand that there are people on here who aren't for the Clinton Pkwy/Bob Billings renamings, but many of the posters on here aren't focused on that. Rather, it's just the idea of naming a street after a football coach. Judging from many comments, I get the feeling that many people on here just aren't sports fans, so the idea itself bothers them.

And really, with the internet and googlemaps and mapquest (just for example), if someone really wants a map of every minute detail of a town or city, they can get it. And how many people just "accidentally" end up btw. 9th and 11th on current Missouri street who would be totally bewildered by the change in the name? It's not a major street, and it's all of two blocks if you are completely bewildered. Get to either 9th or 11th and then turn and find a street you are familiar with. Not to mention that if one even KNOWS about the underlying reason for the current order of the street names, who really knows the order in which the states joined the Union? Very few people other than Lawrence residents would even know which two other street Missouri street falls between.

missouri_street 6 years, 5 months ago

Gootsie, I too know Coach Fambrough. Wonderful guy.

But as one who actually lives on a block which would be affected, this is a STUPID idea.

If Coach Fambrough needs a street renamed, consider renaming your own street.

I for one, do not relish explaining time-after-time: "well Missouri and Fambrough are the same street, so don't let it confuse you." Why should it be confusing?? Because the same identical route will have two different names off of 9th street.

Street names are geographical identifiers. They fit into a scheme....like streets and avenues having the same name across a grid. When you start appropriating street names to do something else, you are doing something stupid.

I would suggest for all of you supporting this idea to think what it would be like for your own block, and ONLY your own block, and one more, would be renamed.

Not to mention the needless headaches with creditors, post office, correspondents, friends, legal descriptions, credit files.

missouri_street 6 years, 5 months ago

mdfraz, you are wrong. Everyone would NOT know the 'reason' behind the change.

BigAl: If you want to have 'fun with it' start a petition to change your own street. Have fun with that!

Bigjaybabyjay: Seldom used street? Just as seldom used as yours. Start a petition for your street. Leave mine alone.

TrooGrit: I am not a grump. But you are messing with my property, my inconvenience, my frustration.

Yes, this proposal makes me angry.

missouri_street 6 years, 5 months ago

Gootsie: You have permission to not drive on my street.

Your driving on my street does not honor Missouri, nor will it honor Coach Fambrough.

Jersey_Girl 6 years, 5 months ago

Sounds to me like those of you defending the idea of renaming Missouri are the ones overreacting. I don't see anyone "tearing down other people's ideas". I just see them stating that they wish the street name to be left as is. If you see the examples being given about other street names being changed in the past as "tearing down other people's ideas", I think you might be overreacting. I grew up in Lawrence and my father is a professor at KU. As a "townie", I prefer to keep as much of Lawrence seperate from KU as possible. I realize a good part of Lawrence's economy depends on the staff, faculty and students of KU, but it saddens me to see how much of Mass has stoped catering to Lawrence residents and turned to catering to students.

mdfraz 6 years, 5 months ago

missouri, if ANYONE has a potential complaint, it would be someone like yourself who apparently lives on the street. I realize your opposition to it, and if actual residents of the street want to try to stop it, I wouldn't have much of a problem with that.

However, most people who are flying off the handle about this don't live on the street and are objecting only on principle.

And as for your comments about the scheme of street names, unless you do it in an easily understandable manner, like using progressively large numbers as you go in one direction (i.e. Lawrence E-W streets), most other street naming systems are random. Names of trees, state names (even with the order of their entry into the Union as the basis), or even just random words make up a lot of street systems. Those systems are no more or less arbitrary than naming streets after famous people. Now, that being said, REnaming streets can get confusing if it happens on a regular basis. But again, I don't see the complaints (or at least MOST of them) being that NO streets should be named after people. The focus is on it being named after a football coach.

missouri_street 6 years, 5 months ago

mdfraz: I DO have a dog in this fight. Don't tell me to lighten up. This idea is stupid, and is not very respectful.

Boston_Corbett: Excellent point. If this idea makes any sense, they should rename Missouri street all the way north to the Limits and South of campus too.

mdfraz 6 years, 5 months ago

Jersey, my comment about tearing other people's ideas down are not exactly on point on this particular issue, but more of an observation regarding posts on the ljworld in general. Anyone can say whatever they want on here, and that's great. I guess I see this as a forum to discuss and try to solve issues or problems rather than just spewing hyperbole about how stupid this group is, or how much someone hates someone else, or just plain old complaining. Just my opinion, but I'm much more likely to respect someone's opinion if they are objective and want to debate an issue. That's not to say that I don't get crazy on here sometimes too. But I try to address specific comments with more specific responses rather than name calling, or whining, or things like that.

Like I said, though, if this is a place where people want to just vent and complain, I can't stop that.

missouri_street 6 years, 5 months ago

mdfraz: "However, most people who are flying off the handle about this don't live on the street and are objecting only on principle."

I think it is an excellent principle that street names should be used principally as geographical identifiers for navigational purposes, and to that extent should not be cannibalized a block here or there, decades after the fact, for useless honorific vanity purposes, and which actually destroys the integrity of the city's geographical nomenclature.

So I appreciate the other people "flying off the handle" here about this issue. You should too. This is a stupid idea.

This city has some serious budget issues. Is this really even deserving of the time?

Let's let the City Commissioners come down and look at the physical condition of the street, the shape of some of the rentals, and their sidewalks.

Yes, I am angry.

Jersey_Girl 6 years, 5 months ago

Fambrough left KU in 1982? 27 years ago? And NOW you want to rename to a tiny section of Missouri street in the honor of his hatred of Missouri? If this was about his deep competion with Missouri, then I might feel differently. But it's not. It's about his hatred and I do not like to see hatred rewarded in any way, shape or form. Those of whom object aren't the problem; those of you hellbent on the change are. Get a grip!

mdfraz 6 years, 5 months ago

You know, missouri, I try to recognize your point of view, but you want to focus only on the negative. I posted before, if anyone has a right to want to stop this, you do. If you and your neighbors want to get together and put an end to it, you won't hear complaining from me.

Linda Aikins 6 years, 5 months ago

My goodness gracious. I would be proud to live on Fambrough Way. Bring it on.

What a high level of testosterone we have here today! Do you know how many streets in this town are named for family members that we don't even know? Hutton Farms? Named after Fritzell's daughter Hutton. If you go to west lawrence, almost all the streets there are named for people who....know what? never mind. I support it; you don't. That's the way it is!

I hope they do this!

Fred Whitehead Jr. 6 years, 5 months ago

How about "Sara Buxton Way" I think that singer has some Lawrence connection. After all, Yukon, Oklahoma (near OK City) has a "Garth Brooks Boulevard"

missouri_street 6 years, 5 months ago

mdfraz: Well excuse me for being negative. (not) These two blocks contain only a handful of owner-occupied dwellings. The fact that the proposal is for Two and ONLY Two blocks is by its very nature an admission of the stupidity of the proposal. It is like, "well, its only two blocks. It is Oread. Mostly students There are only a handful of owner occupied dwellings. Let's roll them!"

So yes I am negative. Yes I am angry. And I have a reason to be.

mdfraz 6 years, 5 months ago

No, logic, I didn't state in my post at 1:46 or my post at 1:58 that I knew the reason behind the street names.

And your first comment about people being "childish" because they don't agree with you illustrates my point perfectly. Whether you and I disagree about this, or any other issue, I would rather see this as a way to debate the merits of the issue, both pro and con, instead of name calling.

You refuse to acknowledge any "good" reasons just because you don't happen to agree with renaming the street. And everyone else is myopic? I've at least admitted that missouri has a real gripe and I see his/her point (not sure if it's male or female). Have you been able to do that at all?

HawkN09 6 years, 5 months ago

I live on Missouri Street between 10th and 11th so my address would be affected by this change, and in all reality it wouldn't pose much of a problem for me. It wouldn't really be that hard to change my mailing address to accommodate the change. But either way I don't really care which way it goes. If it stays Missouri Street that is fine, I will just explain to people that my apartment is in between Maine and Missouri (since that is where we park) without having to mention that the actual street address is Missouri. If the name is changed that would be okay too, because then I wouldn't have to hear the collective groan when I actually do say that I live on Missouri Street. Perhaps Don Fambrough Way isn't the right name for the street, but I have no ideas as to what it should be.

bad_dog 6 years, 5 months ago

Hmm, a new affliction; Missouri Derangement Syndrome. Is this supported by the MSM too?

missouri_street 6 years, 5 months ago

OK Gootsie. Give me the block address. Let's see what we can do to help Gootsie out. (you might want to check with your neighbors, oh brave one)

Just leave me out of it.

Lets have a competition. Which block most WANTS to change their name to Fambrough. Make is consensual. (There is a positive solution, mdfraz)

mdfraz 6 years, 5 months ago

Gootsie, I throw in the towel too. Clearly, engaging in a pis*ing match for the next couple hours, or providing other examples of streets named for specific people won't make a difference in what other people think. And again, I've acknowledged time and time again that missouri has a right to oppose this, and I completely respect that. But, instead of recognition of that, I get trashed even more. I'm not one to have thin skin, but it's not worth the time and effort.

I will note I love ocean's comment. Just because this has been proposed by Sue Hack all of a sudden we are talking about George Bush. Some people just have an agenda no matter what the topic or discussion is. And I'm not exactly a GW fan, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this article. Sigh

missouri_street 6 years, 5 months ago

HawkN09, and the other students who live on this block, have far less at stake.

I respect their opinions, but they are not the ones with long term interests in having their address and personal records remain consistent.

Again, these blocks are being selected because they have so many transients (students). That is in part why I am angry.

Linda Aikins 6 years, 5 months ago

Missouri_street, now you are being silly. I'd love to know why this pushes your buttons so hard.

missouri_street 6 years, 5 months ago

mdfraz: I have not trashed you. But as you acknowledge our right to oppose this, I hope you understand and acknowledge our right to be so outraged by this.

geniusmannumber1 6 years, 5 months ago

Well, Jersey Girl, at the risk of sounding repetitive:

  1. Do not be angry -- this is not important.
  2. Do not get indignant -- this is not important.
  3. Have an opinion -- although this is not important, this is fun.
  4. Pull the stick out.
  5. Have fun.

Oh, and 6. Do not put the kitten in the box. You will get caught.

Danimal 6 years, 5 months ago

I've thought that they should rename Missouri St. to Kansas St. for years. It doesn't make any sense to have a street named after a state that everyone in this town hates for very legitimate reasons. I'm against naming it after a sub-.500 football coach though. Why not Mangino St? If we're naming it after a football coach it needs to be either Pepper Rogers, Herman Yost, or Mangino, they're about the only KU football coaches of note in the 119 years KU has played football. Is there not already a street named after Phog Allen?

cklarock 6 years, 5 months ago

I own a house on that stretch of street, and I think it's a fantastic idea. I'm 100% in support -- Fambrough deserves it, and the shame of constantly writing "Missouri" on my return address would disappear!

missouri_street 6 years, 5 months ago

cklarock: Change the street in front your own personal residence, not on my street where I live, and where I usually pick up the beer cans and trash from your tenants.

Gootsie:
Not being silly at all. I thought I had expressed my opinions fully. This proposal is highly offensive to me, for all the reasons I have expressed above. If you do not understand my strength of opinion, you just don't understand my position.

one_bad_marine2 6 years, 5 months ago

Since the city has an abundance of money, let's rename all the streets after past heroes. Let's start with the Lawrence citizens that were killed during military service.

TheOriginalCA 6 years, 5 months ago

I think that they should name the sewers after this forum.

woodenfleaeater 6 years, 5 months ago

I have two nominations: Scott Pritchard and Mark Randall

Linda Aikins 6 years, 5 months ago

Oh believe me, I understand. I just don't understand the nastiness and the lack of class you are showing in presenting your arguments. Honey, not vinegar.

Good point TOB! What street would you rename? Is there a current street called Bovine Supplement? :)

kmat 6 years, 5 months ago

Easy solution. If all residents on that stretch of MO St. agree AND private funds can be collected to pay for all expenses that the city would now have to incur, then change it.

I hate MO. I really hate MO. But renaming a street because you hate the state is just ignorant.

It appears that many of you haven't noticed that the city doesn't have enough money to take care of basic business. So then why should our tax dollars pay for something that isn't needed? Wouldn't you prefer some potholes got fixed? Why is the name of a street so damned important?

And I do appreciate how Lawrence named its streets and don't think any of them should be changed. Everyone I've ever explained it to thought it was a cool idea.

Isn't it better to enjoy beating MO at sports than trying to erase any mention of the name MO from street signs?

prrkc 6 years, 5 months ago

If you all actually go through with this, you should be embarassed. Last I checked, the civil war ended appx. 150 years ago, and the wonderful 'Jayhawkers' that you all named your school mascot after committed just as many crimes in Mo. as bushwhackers did in Ks. (see the book 'Jennison's Jayhawkers' if you don't believe me)

If you buy ol' Don's brilliant statement (which he evidently believes) that 'we're the good people, they're the bad people', you are as dumb as he appears to be.

If you want to see a contrast between MU and KU that does KU no credit, watch 'Border War', and compare and contrast Norm Stewart and Don Fambrough. One takes the rivalry as it should be taken, in good fun, while respecting the opponent and realizing it is just a game, the other appears to be filled with genuine, overwhelming hate. One had the class to come to KU to graciously accept an award, the other supposedly wouldn't go to the football game last year because it was in Missouri.

And for those of you all that hate my state so much, stay on your side of the line. Don't be hypocrites and come enjoy the major league sports, art and culture my state provides to you while deriding it.

Jersey_Girl 6 years, 5 months ago

I am not against naming a street after Fambrough; I'm against renaming any part of any street. Give him his own new street out in West Lawrence where houses are sprouting like weeds. Not only will he get his own new street named expressly for him, but it was will be on the far side of town from Missouri. Hell, give him his own community. Rename Alvamar.

RKLOG 6 years, 5 months ago

Muck Fambrough. This town has a bigger and better history to reflect back than that of college football. And the trivial renaming of sections of its oldest streets to inconsequential super heroes is a sad fad that needs to be nipped in the bud and seen as it really is: the drunken musings and decisions made while tailgating, that inadvertently defaces the dignity and history of a town that should know better. I'm sending a letter to the city and I hope that they vote this idea down.

tolawdjk 6 years, 5 months ago

"And for those of you all that hate my state so much, stay on your side of the line. Don't be hypocrites and come enjoy the major league sports, art and culture my state provides to you while deriding it."

Is there anything "enjoyable" about watching the Royals, Chiefs or Rams play? I also contend two partially colored in Dora the Explorer books does not constitute art, nor culture.

I say we find a bunch of Grandpa Simpson's 49 star American flags and require they be flown within the state as well!

"Grandpa, why does this flag only have 49 stars?"

"It will be a cold day in hell before I recognize Missourah!"

sunflowerhue 6 years, 5 months ago

To make it easier, why don't they just add the word "sucks" to the sign. It won't be nearly as confusing that way and I think Fambrough would still be honored. "Missouri Sucks St." has a great ring to it.

Joel Hood 6 years, 5 months ago

prrkc - did you forget about that Mizzou nut job in the 'Border War' documentary who worships Quantrill?? Good point about the acts of violence committed on both sides - except your side was for S L A V E R Y (stop with the state's rights argument - it's lame.) And that what galls every Misery fan – you were on the wrong side of the moral argument when you committed acts of violence against innocents.

2phoggy 6 years, 5 months ago

missouri_street:

It's funny to read your comments. You're getting way too worked up about something so small. Nobody is coming to vandalize your house. Nobody's going to come and do donuts with their F-150 on your property. And no one is going to put a street sign right smack in the middle of your lawn. If you're so tired of living around all these young scoundrel students, what is stopping you from moving? I guarantee the people around you wouldn't be upset, because it sounds like you definitely fit the mold of an old grump.

It's just a street name and for only a couple blocks. It's not hard to have a change of address. That actually happens from time to time believe it or not. You are creating a big fuss out of something so small. This would be a minuscule inconvenience for you at most. Go call the cops because your neighbors are up past eleven and worry about something else.

prrkc 6 years, 5 months ago

'except your side was for s l a v e r y (stop with the state's rights argument - it's lame.) And that what galls every Misery fan – you were on the wrong side of the moral argument when you committed acts of violence against innocents.'

Obviously you didn't pay attention in history class, Mo. was a BORDER STATE. Just as many missourians fought for the union as against it. And if you are making moral arguments on behalf of your university based on what states associated with those universities did 150 years ago, well, go ahead. Great logic there.

And again, if you think border raiders from KS. were all abolitionist saints, read any scholarly work on the period. Acts of violence were committed against innocents on both sides, by both sides.

But feel free to take the mental midget approach Don does, that a political boundry defines who the 'good' and 'bad' people are.

prrkc 6 years, 5 months ago

'did you forget about that Mizzou nut job in the 'Border War' documentary who worships Quantrill?? '

Yes, that guy is a moron, too. But last I checked he wasn't having any streets named after him.

Ask folks from Neosho, Mo. how they feel about the name 'Jayhawker'. Hypocrisy, thy name is KU fan.

jumpin_catfish 6 years, 5 months ago

OMG! I guess this is why we have elections. KU wins one game against Missouri and madness follows. Doesn't the commissioner have big fish to fry. Ha ha ha get it jumpin' catfish fish to fry, oh forget it.

jumpin_catfish 6 years, 5 months ago

OMG! I guess this is why we have elections. KU wins one game against Missouri and madness follows. Doesn't the commissioner have bigger fish to fry. Ha ha ha get it jumpin' catfish fish to fry, oh forget it.

ThatGirl2 6 years, 5 months ago

frwent (Anonymous) says…

How about “Sara Buxton Way” I think that singer has some Lawrence connection. After all, Yukon, Oklahoma (near OK City) has a “Garth Brooks Boulevard”

Well, I think Don Johnson and Mandy Patinken also have Lawrence connections. I'm behind Don Johnson Lane. ;)

Joel Hood 6 years, 5 months ago

prrkc - those in Missouri fighting against slavery weren't the ones crossing the Kansas border to kill innocents. The Border War was about Free Staters against Pro Slavery factions who mostly came from Missouri. Missouri was claimed by the both the Union and the CSA (yes - I more than paid attention in class). But, the fact remains that Free Staters in Kansas were not on the wrong side of the moral argument and that fact is what galls Misery fans to this day.

Jersey_Girl 6 years, 5 months ago

Arumer - I would not call myself a "zealot" townie. I just grew up here. And as many of my childhood friends who have moved away as adults say, no matter where we live, Lawrence is still the center of our universe. When I was growing up, other than my father teaching at KU, my family had little to do with KU. We occasionally sat on the hill and watched the football games before they built that monsterous scoreboard and watched the fireworks over the stadium. My point was that Mass was more oriented towards the townspeople. Raney's Drugstore, Woolsworth, the two big, old-fashioned movie theaters (The Granada and I forget the name of the other). Those are all gone. I hate going downtown now. The Hillcrest movie theaters are gone. I'd like to be able to walk into a store and not be assaulted by KU/Jayhawk paraphenalia. This is not the Lawrence of my childhood and the changes are not for the better. Lawrence has a rich history that is being replaced with KU sport trophies. And yes, it does make me want to move back to NJ. Yesterday.

prrkc 6 years, 5 months ago

' also contend two partially colored in Dora the Explorer books does not constitute art, nor culture.'

Yep, the Nelson, Kemper, Crossroads, etc. are way inferior to anything in KS. You should be sending thank you's to KCMO for building the Sprint Center.

kmat 6 years, 5 months ago

prrkc - Do you remember wonderful old Norm refusing to even let his players buy a pop, gas up the busses or do anything that would have spent one cent in the state of KS? Norm was no saint and a lot of times quite an *sshole at games. It was a good day when he retired.

I lived in Misery for a while. Thank god my family got relocated back to KS. Since we have a mixed family, we were threatened by many neighbors who were ready to "take some action" against our family for bringing blacks into the neighborhood. I remember it well because these people scared the living hell out of me as a child and had many bad things to say about me and my family.

No, they didn't represent all of Misery, but a descent chunk of it. Outside of KC and St. Louis, it's hillbillyville. I have a friend from the mountain country of Tennessee. She's always said at least she's a mountain girl and not a redneck hillybilly like those in Misery.

Why are you on this site anyways, if you're in Misery? Why concern yourself with things in Lawrence?

And don't worry, most of us try to avoid Misery. Even when I go to St. Louis (following my fav band around) I stay on the IL side. The only thing of value in KC MO is the Nelson and it's pretty blah compared to real museums in real cities.

"anything from MO has a taint on it. We're from KS, Jayhawkers and proud of it". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjqkyo...

Jersey_Girl 6 years, 5 months ago

And would one of you who is for changing that section of Missouri to Fambrough please address the possibility of just giving him his own brand new street in some new section of town rather than renaming a 2-block section of a street that has the name "Missouri" for nearly 150 years?

BigAl 6 years, 5 months ago

I say rename the street. Obviously it irritates Missouri fans on here so that alone is a good reason to rename it.

For me, that is pretty inexpensive entertainment value.

BigAl 6 years, 5 months ago

Jersey Girl... that is a fair question. However, this particular street runs north out of Memorial Stadium and it is the street location that is attractive to the supporters.

It just wouldn't be the same if it were somewhere out west.

kmat 6 years, 5 months ago

Then you pay for it, BigAl. If it's for entertainment, then tax dollars shouldn't be spent on it.

prrkc 6 years, 5 months ago

'But, the fact remains that Free Staters in Kansas were not on the wrong side of the moral argument and that fact is what galls Misery fans to this day.'

No, what galls me is the historically untenable argument that the 'good people' were in Ks., and the 'bad people' were in Mo., along with the fact that you trying to tie factions in a complex conflict that occured 150 years ago to a moral superiority argument in favor of one current day political entity over another.

Again, read the book. The border conflict quickly degenerated into pure anarchy were politics were of little consequence except as an excuse to justify robbing and killing the 'others'. Folks on both sides of the state line were preyed upon by both sides- many Kansans outside Lawrence DESPISED Jennison and co. because they weren't particular about who they stole from or killed.

BigAl 6 years, 5 months ago

Jersey Girl... I appreciate what you are saying and your sentiments about growing up here in Lawrence. But, I still like Lawrence a lot. I understand that things don't always stay the same and sometimes that is sad. But, Lawrence is still a great place to live and raise your kids. I'm not looking to start an argument but there isn't anywhere in New Jersey that I would trade for Lawrence. Warts and all. Oh... and I still am for changing the street name...!

BigAl 6 years, 5 months ago

I'd sure chip in. If the city would come up with a price to get it done, I bet it wouldn't take more than a few minutes to raise the funds....!!

prrkc 6 years, 5 months ago

'Do you remember wonderful old Norm refusing to even let his players buy a pop, gas up the busses or do anything that would have spent one cent in the state of KS?'

Brother, watch 'Border War'. Norm makes it clear that he basically said that off the cuff, saw that it played well with the fans, so then he stuck with it. Again, there is no hate for Ks. or KU in Norm, because he is smart, and smart people don't classify folks as 'good' or 'bad' based on where they live.

But feel free to continue to inconvienence yourself by avoiding the state. We are all evil racists over here, so be careful.

classclown 6 years, 5 months ago

cklarock (Anonymous) says…

I own a house on that stretch of street, and I think it's a fantastic idea. I'm 100% in support — Fambrough deserves it, and the shame of constantly writing “Missouri” on my return address would disappear!

=============================

If you're so ashamed of it, why are you living on that street in the first place?

classclown 6 years, 5 months ago

What came first? The street or the stadium?

prrkc 6 years, 5 months ago

and I'll take Josey Wales over that whiny old Ks. witch anyday... :)

JayCat_67 6 years, 5 months ago

They could use those special brown street signs, change the name and in little letters in an oval underneath it could say "Historical Missouri Street". But since its such an obscure street that very few people are looking for anyway, we should call it Valesente Way.

BigAl 6 years, 5 months ago

I love this. Just mentioning the possibility of a name change is causing all of this rift between Ks and Mo.

Again, let's rename the street...!!

kmat 6 years, 5 months ago

I'll ask again since you avoid the question. Why are you on this site anyways, if you're in Misery? Why concern yourself with things in Lawrence?

You sum up why we don't like people from Misery. You've shown yourself to be quite a bitter ass.

You have to remember, we live in the town that Quantrill sacked, burnt and murdered many people. Yes we still hold a grudge. This town was established to keep KS a free state (founded for political reasons that opposed MO).

So why do you want to fight with people that are going to be biased, based on our history? See, you're just a bitter jerk from Misery looking to pick a fight. Typical.

JayCat_67 6 years, 5 months ago

kmat, are you saying that there were actually two people stupid enough to actually move to Missouri?

Linda Aikins 6 years, 5 months ago

So is the argument that you don't want to name it after that "old hillbilly", or you don't want the name of this or any other street changed? You realize that NYC just named a street after U2?

I see no reason to attack Coach. This is NOT his idea. I would guarantee he thinks it is completely silly. Keep the focus on the City Commission and their decision to rename the street. We have given him a bench already - I know he thought that was too much.

Coach may not have had a winning record as a head coach, but he's been a$$deep in KU football for over 50 years and still goes to practice almost every day they have it and is asked his advice. Please leave him alone in this.

Joel Hood 6 years, 5 months ago

prrkc - "No, what galls me is the historically untenable argument that the 'good people' were in Ks., and the 'bad people' were in Mo., along with the fact that you trying to tie factions in a complex conflict that occured 150 years ago to a moral superiority argument in favor of one current day political entity over another."

What???????? prrkc, you need to get off the meth and settle down. Clearly, you have a sore spot about this. I never used the words "good" or "bad" to describe anyone. It was war and people did bad things. In the Border War, your side justified those bad things with "pro-slavery" rationalizations. Our side justified those bad things with "Free State" rationalizations. Sure, those reasons have nothing to do with the rivalry today - but why then do people like you squirm so much when it is discussed? Because, no matter what terrible things each side did to each other 150 years ago, your side is always trying to explain away how things were compl

Joel Hood 6 years, 5 months ago

prrkc - "No, what galls me is the historically untenable argument that the 'good people' were in Ks., and the 'bad people' were in Mo., along with the fact that you trying to tie factions in a complex conflict that occured 150 years ago to a moral superiority argument in favor of one current day political entity over another."

What???????? prrkc, you need to get off the meth and settle down. Clearly, you have a sore spot about this. I never used the words "good" or "bad" to describe anyone. It was war and people did bad things. In the Border War, your side justified those bad things with "pro-slavery" rationalizations. Our side justified those bad things with "Free State" rationalizations. Sure, those reasons have nothing to do with the rivalry today - but why then do people like you squirm so much when it is discussed? Because, no matter what terrible things each side did to each other 150 years ago, your side is always trying to explain away the impetus for the bad things your side did.

Phil Minkin 6 years, 5 months ago

For those suggesting the street be named after Mangino, it would have to be much wider, have a big round about, and have 30 foot high trees so no one could see what goes on there.

jayhawklawrence 6 years, 5 months ago

Coach Fambrough gets my vote.

We need to record everything he says and put on a CD.

They'll be playing it and laughing at his jokes when all the rest of us are long gone.

I love the guy.

compmd 6 years, 5 months ago

The fact that the city is seriously entertaining this idea is absolutely asinine.

EdenPrairie87 6 years, 5 months ago

Oh, I can see the retaliation now:

We burn down Osceola, they burn down Lawrence.

We rename Missouri Street so they burn down our city hall.

Pat Long 6 years, 5 months ago

There is a logic to the street names in the central part of town. As much as I respect the affection for Coach, the affilation is with KU, ergo let the university honor him.

Kookamooka 6 years, 5 months ago

Can't Doug Compton and his AD buddies find another way to "honor" this guy? I'm sick to death of KU Football taking over Lawrence. It's a sport that only happens a few months a year. Get over it! Name a little road that connects fancy new parking lots after Don not freaking Missouri Street.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 6 years, 5 months ago

"I hate Missouri", Missouri sucks"...... Listen to you people! What a bunch of petulant childern you all are!! It is a STATE the street is named after, not the University in Columbia. How many of you people WORK in Missouri because this hick town has no jobs that pay squat?? My God, is this the way of the future, making lasting decisions based on some childish stupid mid-west moronic sports rivalry?????? Who outside little one-horse Lawrence (sister city to some berg in Japan and possibly Nowhere Greece) gives a rat's ass????? I say that "Hack Politician Way" should be used, it fits the situation.

Kent Shrack 6 years, 5 months ago

Let the commisson work on better things like,, shutting down money pit city owned golf courses? I'm looking for ways to save money,, not spend. But then, they aren't speding their money,, they spend ours. Missouri street, has nothing to do with MU. Why change it? But then, I didn't like them changing 15th to Les Nessman drive oh, I mean,, that Bob guy.

Linda Aikins 6 years, 5 months ago

Kook, believe me. AD Perkins is not at all behind this. Not one little microcausm of a bit.

jonas_opines 6 years, 5 months ago

Jeez, Frwent, overreact and overgeneralize much? If you paid attention you know the nastiness and petulance on this thread comes from sources that are nasty and petulant on virtually all the threads that they post on.

unklemonkey 6 years, 5 months ago

I highly doubt that all of you who posted here live on Missouri Street. It's not up to you. Quit whining. This street name should have been changed long ago. The word "Missouri" should not be permitted within a five-mile radius of campus. So shut up and let the people you put in power vote on the stupid street name.

FlapJack 6 years, 5 months ago

Are you kidding me? Bob Billings (street) will always and forever be 15th street! How about the city saving the money. Just because we all (most of us, anyway) love KU Bball doesn't mean we have to change our street names. Come on, City Comission, quit spending these unnecessary dollars!

George_Braziller 6 years, 5 months ago

Really stupid idea. Where would the "naming" stop? It was mornoic enough that 15th Street west of Iowa is now "Bob Billings Parkway" and Iowa west of 23rd is now "Clinton Parkway."

I guess I'll just re-name the alley behind my house "Sue Hack Way." At least I'll know that every Tuesday the crap will be hauled away. Wish I could say the same for her.

Loretta James 6 years, 5 months ago

Jersey girl more info on Bob Billings.

Local developer who devoloped Alvamar which is named after his mom and dad. He also was one of the developers who got the old Penn House tore down and a new one put up. He also donated lots of money to LMH which the cardiac unit in the ER is named after him. He was a great man whom didn't like public reconition for things that he did. Will be remember by many for his genorsity.

Bossa_Nova 6 years, 5 months ago

is the commission really going to waste the taxpayers' time and money on this? this just shows how infantile lawrence can be over this stupid mu/ku rivalry thing. if you ever go to missouri you'll find that most people over there dont even know there's a rivalry and those who do know could care less. go to columbia and try to find a tshirt equivalent to the redneck muck fizzou tshirt. you cant because they really dont care and they wouldnt waste their money on something so silly. grow up kansas!

Emily Hadley 6 years, 5 months ago

Just make it Honorary, suggest KU/ Alumni/ fans pay for the cost of a couple signs, and be done with it.

deskboy04 6 years, 5 months ago

I don't want to see the street renamed. But I disagree with Bossa Nova. People in Missouri care about the rivalry with KU.

Bossa_Nova 6 years, 5 months ago

whatever pilgrim.... i'm from kansas by the way and i love living in lawrence and dont plan on leaving. i just think many fellow kansans act rather childish over this silly rivalry thing. most people in missouri on average could simply care less. and like i said, go to columbia and try to count how many people are walking around with "juck fayhawks" tshirts or anything similar. you probably wont find many because they really dont care.

Phil Minkin 6 years, 5 months ago

If one penny is spent, or one minute of staff time is wasted in finding our how much this bone head idea will cost (in taking down and putting up new signs, the cost of the signs, notifiying residents, new maps, post office cost etc.) then city hall should never complain about not having money.

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