I have a suggestion for how the city trash and water services can make up their anticipated budget shortfalls (July 20), and it involves a simple principle of both social justice and environmental responsibility: If you use more, you pay more.
The city could consider basic residential trash collection services to cover one trash can. If a household should put out more trash than fits on one can, they could be charged additional fees. Why should households who work hard to reduce their consumption and to reuse or recycle what they do use have to pay the additional costs generated by those who are less careful?
Similarly, the city could estimate the amount of water an average prudent household needs to use over a time period and apply steadily increasing rates for any consumption over that basic amount. Water is a finite resource. Those who take care to fix leaks, turn off faucets, harvest rainwater and water their yards only when necessary for plant survival should not have to face scarcity because others have been less responsible and more wasteful.
If you use more, you pay more. It solves a city budget problem while increasing fairness among citizens and encouraging sound environmental practices. It’s a win-win-win.
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Renaissance (anonymous) says…
not a bad idea, but practically speaking here is what would happen: The average Lawrence household would have only one trashcan worth of trash each week....and amazingly area apartment and commercial dumpsters would be filled to the brim constantly. Maybe I'm just pessimistic, or perhaps just planning ahead.
SettingTheRecordStraight (anonymous) says…
The writer lost me at "social justice." The fear of encountering additional postmodern catch phrases kept me from reading more.
headdoctor (anonymous) says…
The problem with this idea is as always. Compliance. Utility usage is already covered with meters. There is no economical, fair way for the city to meter trash amounts from every household in Lawrence every time they do their weekly pickup and adjust the monthly bills accordingly.
I think Renaissance has it figured out. If you try to raise prices to much, you will just see an increase in people using commercial dumpsters or open dumping to avoid the extra cost. We already see a lot of this going on around the country with things like tires and such. I also have to wonder just who or by what standards would they decide what was over use.
Jersey_Girl (anonymous) says…
I live in an apartment, so this wouldn't really affect me, but I've seen several articles recently about recycling and specially equipped trucks that weigh what is being picked up and it seems to me that the same could apply to a garbage truck.
number3of5 (anonymous) says…
This idea might possibly, and I say possibly, be made to work for trash, but, water? What is a typical family size? 2,4, 6, 8 or even 10 members in a household sometimes is common. Therefore they would normally use more water and produce more trash. This would have to be considered into the equation. Any one for an old fashioned cistern or well and a cess pool to avoid higher prices here?
75x55 (anonymous) says…
'Social justice'? How does that term even apply, or has it become so ingrained in some people's vocabulary that it just pops out at every topic relating to two or more people?
Hello, illegal dumping.
puddleglum (anonymous) says…
how about a fee for breathing in the city's air, while you are at it.
dulcinea47 (anonymous) says…
In Jefferson City (and probably other places but my grandfather lives there so I'm familiar with it) you have to put your trash out in official trash bags purchased from the city. They won't pick up trash in other bags. This works well IMO for places with curbside trash pickup but leaves the same problem with shared dumpsters. I wish there was a solution b/c I am very conscious about recycling & composting and make very little trash; I don't think it's okay that I pay the same for trash pickup as everyone else.
xbusguy (chris Ogle) says…
Life is so unfair........
gl0ck0wn3r (anonymous) says…
Bucket of fail.
Why should the city be in the trash business at all? Why should the city be in the business of mandating how much someone can throw away? Why should it be in the business of punishing people who do not recycle?
Further, people who use more water do pay more. In theory, they system is already prohibitive as implemented. However, because the city charges so little for water one doesn't really realize it unless one has a massive bill.
I'm curious though, the LTE seems to advocate yet another tax on the poor. The faux progressives in this town already instituted a tax on the poor to fund the People's Empty Transport System. A tax on trash and a progressive tax on water would certainly disproportionately hurt the poor. Imagine a single mother with four kids... no doubt her trash tax will be higher than others. Do you propose to cut off her water when she cannot afford to pay the tax on the poor attached to the water system?
johnp (John Poertner) says…
Joey,
Good ideas. Now all we need is some leadership on the city council.
hear_me (anonymous) says…
Before we moved to Lawrence in 1979, we lived in a community that allowed only one standard sized trash can per household. if you had more, you had to call to arrange pickup and were sent a bill.
Good point, gl0ck0wn3r. I know of communities that use private solid waste collection. How about if the city charged as much as a private concern does? The city is already set up to offer the service.
hear_me (anonymous) says…
Joey: " ...it involves a simple principle of both social justice ..."
I am not liking myself very much for thinking of many issues in the context of social justice. This may or may not be the case, but people will begin to turn a deaf ear if the concept is overused. I would rather focus on the issues regarding solid waste and cost.
Renaissance (anonymous) says…
how about a tax on the use of the term "social justice" in LTE's?
kmat (anonymous) says…
He is correct about the trash. Many cities across the country pay per bin or by the bag. You very quickly get people to compost and recycle.
And the trash pickup shouldn't be done by the city. It should be private companies like it is in KC. Then you can pick your company. Some offer better rates for people that recycle.
The city trash truck was going down my street at very fast speeds this morning (had to easily be doing 35+ in a 25). What do the cops do if they catch the trash trucks speeding? Doesn't make sense to fine themselves. Because of this, the trash truck drivers tend to drive like crap in this town.
Did_I_say_that (DIST) says…
The LTE writer failed to take into account the law of unintended consequences. Several areas of the country began rationing (voluntary and mandatory) water last year due to draughts. Consumers responded by using less water. Municipal Governments noticed that income (money) was down due to less usage. The answer: raise the cost of water and water related taxes. Here is just one example: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article...
Did_I_say_that (DIST) says…
Ooops! That should have been "droughts" (a lack of rain) instead of "draughts" (a drink drawn from a keg).
merrill (anonymous) says…
PAYT = Pay as you throw
An excellent solution I say. However city hall is resisting such a plan. Seems fiscally responsible however. Better than contstantly increasing fees(taxes).
Boeing (anonymous) says…
This is pretty common sense for trash. In the suburb of Los Angeles that I grew up in, we had trash pickup once a week and got one can. If we had more than that, or had yard refuse, we had to go to city hall and buy stickers. Without the bag or can having a sticker, the trash guys wouldn't pick it up. You made more waste, you paid more...pretty simple, straightforward, common sense...perhaps too simple for Lawrence with all the PhD's? Maybe, but we never had a budget issue with streets and sanitation...
pace (anonymous) says…
This is a great week for this discussion. There are rules about how trash is packaged, weight and container requirements. If the requirements are not met then it is supposed to be tagged and there is also a provision for clean up costs. We ignore that for landlords and exiting students, at the end of semester and at the end of the year lease date, July 31. We enforce it for home owners most of the year. This creates overtime and also falls on the backs (literally) of the front line sanitation workers. Those costs are picked up by the people who put their trash in a container and don't leave a mile high mountain for the city (us) to pick up by hand.
If they don't enforce the existing regulation how can they say they encourage people to put out less trash, to recycle more, to reduce.
Nothing teaches reduction quite as well as recycling, they go hand in hand. The drop off sites have really made a difference, mixed paper , newspaper, cardboard. . We need curbside colleciton of at least paper/boards/ metals. The city communication about drop off sites and how to use them should be a lot stronger and more user friendly. It is almost as if Yoo's is willing to let people know only if they ask.
It really is time to quit all the trash you can toss for one fee. That doesn't reflect what it costs. People who don't put out very much are carrying the heavy users. It isn't a fair system. While you might get illegal dumping, that is going on now. The county has made great progress in tracking those types down and there are less of them. The city should not hold our fees hostage to the possible miscreants. Miscreants are often lazy, so it won't be the biggest problem. The biggest problem is the city isn't charging people for what they cost. They charge for water by use, They should charge trash by the container. We have had the basic trash pickup and someone should wake up and accept that we have options to disposal. We don't have to send tons everyday to Hamms. There are figures put out by the sanitation department what curbside collection would cost. They don't agree with the figures from many programs. Curbside collection programs must be tailored to a community and what markets it can access, cut out the most expensive materials to collect curbside, which are plastic and glass, consentrate on paper/boards/metals, do them curbside, and charge for trash by container.
altarego (anonymous) says…
Lawrence, KS has the best trash pick-up in the country.
pace (anonymous) says…
The sanitation people have made adjustments for elderly people who have trouble getting their cart to the curb. The trash guys were more than wonderful to my mother-in-law. I work with elderly people with some of the issues, I take out their trash. It usually fits in their container. I think we can go to a one or two container without bankrupting the poor or the elderly. What we are doing is expecting many poor and elderly to pay for those people who haven't learned to avoid excessive packaging, etc. Often the more disposable income you have the more stuff you toss. The best teacher I had about reduction and recycling are my parents and family that lived through the great depression. I know it would be a change, it is past time we changed how we tossed,. We have choices. Why do we say collection can't be changed when almost everything affecting trash has changed. It's not the same trash, plastic and packaging has changed that. The fuel costs are different, the options of recycling materials are changing. Why stick with a 1950's trash system when we live now. The large plastic containers the city leases are suppose to cut collection costs and time. I cut down on buying plastic sacks when I chose the container. A little less trouble with critters too. I hate some of the packaging sold me, I can't even open some of it .
People who don't put out very much are carrying the heavy users. It isn't a fair system or a system designed to reward people who make an effort.
RoeDapple (anonymous) says…
In Northern Wisconsin home owners in and around park areas and lakes are responsible for getting their trash to the landfills. You would be amazed at how quickly the public trash cans and private dumpsters are filled with bags of trash. Many businesses padlock their dumpsters until pick up day.
gl0ck0wn3r (anonymous) says…
"Richard Heckler (Anonymous) says…PAYT = Pay as you throw. An excellent solution I say. However city hall is resisting such a plan. Seems fiscally responsible however. Better than contstantly increasing fees(taxes). "
Richard, why do you enjoy taxing poor people?
salad (anonymous) says…
I can't believe that ANY conservatives would be against fee for service. Shouldn't you have to pay for what you use???? Are you looking for a govt. handout????
Fee for service makes total sense: it works awesome in Germany. You get one container and a certain weight limit "free", and anything over that you pay for. It also against the law to throw away recycleables, you get a fine for not separating your trash. We do the same for certain things: it's against the law to throw away toxic household waste or appliances like refrigerators with your regular trash.
Made_in_China (Paul R. Getto) says…
This is interesting. Landfill use is another denial in which we willingly participate. After we finish the oil wars, the water wars will begin. The final wars may be over who gets all the trash. I'd be more inclined to try and limit packaging, which is generally wasteful and full of petroleum waste (i.e. plastics.) Maybe we should pay more at the store for convenience products and small packages? Not bad, overall. This thread resembles an actual discussion.
pace (anonymous) says…
There is regulation to prevent the mile high piles and to make the tenants or landlords pay, rather than putting the costs on all of us. It is not against the law to dispose of appliances through our system. You just call Bulk pickup. You do have to do safety things, like remove or lock refrigerator, freezer doors. It is part of our current service.
There are provisions to assist the people who would be burdened by sanitation costs or changes.
Excuse me for length of comment but if people knew the regulations, there would be less illegal dumping. Some fools take an old chair and dump it on the edge of someone's field, when they can put it curbside and call bulk pickup. As a "Hello" don't put a couch upside down in a dumpster, just put it beside the dumpster or call bulk pickup. For trash rules, http://www.ci.lawrence.ks.us/city_code/ and click on chapter 9.
City code
(4) Charges which cannot be collected from the tenants either during their
occupancy or after they vacate the premises will be billed to the building
owner.
9-412.7 bulk pick-up.
No extra charge will be made for bulk pickup of residential refuse. ...
Residential customers desiring collection of items such as refrigerators,
ranges, bed frames, washers, water heaters, air conditioners, etc., can make
arrangements with the Director of Public Works for this service.
charges, low-income elderly persons.
The purpose of this Section is to permit qualified low-income elderly person to
have reduced sanitation charges. A low-income elderly person is one who is
sixty (60) years of age or more on or before the 1st day of January of the year
in which the reduced service charge is applicable. To qualify for this low-
income elderly person reduced sanitation service charge:
(A) The individual shall have an income during the preceding calendar
year from all sources of less than $11,440 or
(B) Any person who is the head of a family with a family income during
the preceding calendar year from all sources of less than $15,400;
(C) The individual must meet the qualifications of this Section.9-416
recycling of waste material.
The City shall have the right to control and regulate recycling services within
the City limits. No person shall operate a door-to-door service for the
code of the city of lawrence, kansas
9-16
collection of recyclable material from residential, business, or other premises
within the City unless authorized by license or other formal agreement with
the City. Any person so licensed shall be required to comply with regulations
established by the Director of Public Works. (Ord. 6061; Ord. 6155)
v