Archive for Monday, February 16, 2009

Rivalry run-ins

Reed: K-State’s Clemente shouldn’t be punished for hit

Kansas University guard Brady Morningstar takes an elbow from Kansas State’s Denis Clemente (21) during a 2009 game in Manhattan.

Kansas University guard Brady Morningstar takes an elbow from Kansas State’s Denis Clemente (21) during a 2009 game in Manhattan.

February 16, 2009, 4:19 p.m. Updated February 17, 2009, 1:03 a.m.


Feb. 17, 2009 KU men's basketball

Kansas men's basketball coach Bill Self isn't looking past KU's next two opponents - Iowa State and Nebraska - to the matchup with Oklahoma on Monday.

Kansas University guard Tyrel Reed, who was recipient of a head slap by Kansas State’s Denis Clemente while boxing out the Wildcat guard in Saturday’s KU-KSU game, doesn’t want to see Clemente disciplined following the incident.

“No. It’s no big deal. No hard feelings,” Reed said before Monday’s practice in Horejsi Center. “The game is over with. There’s nothing you can do about it now. We’re just focusing on our next game.”

The Burlington native said he wasn’t even fully aware Clemente whacked him after the junior guard shot a free throw with 31 seconds left in KU’s 85-74 victory in Bramlage Coliseum.

Reed had stepped in front of the player when the contact was made.

“It happened so fast. I didn’t even know anything about it until today,” Reed said, noting several of his teammates visited with him about it Monday in the locker room.

“It’s over and done with.”

KU coach Bill Self said he saw the tape of Clemente striking Reed, “but I’m not going to comment on that at all,” he said. “I’m not going to do anything. I’m not calling attention to it, but, yes, I saw it. You can’t help but see it if you watch the tape.”

The Big 12 said it was reviewing the incident, as is KSU coach Frank Martin.

“We’re dealing with that right now,” Martin said on Monday’s Big 12 coaches teleconference, asked if he was considering disciplining Clemente, who also was called for a technical foul for elbowing KU’s Brady Morningstar.

On Monday night, Martin told the Wichita Eagle: “I’m in talks with the Big 12 on numerous things. Before I take any action, I want them to be aware of some things that are concerns of mine. Denis is on board with any decisions.”

Self was more upset Monday at an accusation made by publisher Tim Fitzgerald on the Internet version of Sunday’s “The Drive” TV show. Self angrily disputed claims of Fitzgerald’s staff members who said they heard KU players “wishing him (Clemente) bodily harm” and allegedly saying, “Where’s your green card?” to Clemente during the game.

“That flat-out (ticks) me off because that did not occur,” Self said. “We have coaches sitting between players. I am sure that did not occur. That does bother me a lot that anybody would say anything like that, more importantly that anybody would report hearsay like that.”

Self reiterated on Monday’s Hawk Talk radio show that his players did not bait Clemente with any ‘green card’ talk.

“I was on the bench. I didn’t hear anything. We have coaches who sat next to players. They didn’t hear anything. We have coaches sitting between players. They didn’t hear anything. I have a good idea nothing was said like that at all during the game. That is disappointing something like that could be said without being confirmed at all.

“I don’t think Tyrel Reed or Brady Morningstar were the ones out there chatting.”

KU’s Sherron Collins said he didn’t hear any insults directed at Clemente.

“Racial slurs ... that’s not us, not our character,” Collins said, noting he joked with both Clemente and Jacob Pullen during the game.

“The bench may holler when they shoot, ‘Miss it,’ that’s about it,” Collins added.

KU center Cole Aldrich also didn’t hear any trash talk out of the ordinary.

“I don’t see any of our guys doing that,” Aldrich said. “They have respect for players on the other team, respect for our guys and respect for the game of basketball. Between two rival teams, it’s like Duke-North Carolina. Once in a while people just get a little excited because it’s two rivals. You want to beat the other team as bad as they want to beat you. I wouldn’t say it ever got to where anybody (on either team) was really talking at all. Guys on our team are good at talking to each other, encouraging each other on the court.”

KSU coach Martin heard nothing out of the ordinary.

“I’ve got my bench to worry about. I’ve got no idea what’s going on the other team’s bench,” he said.

Collins, by the way, said he was surprised by Clemente’s behavior during the game. He said he enjoyed hanging out with Clemente at past summer Nike camps.

“I’m a little surprised at a couple cheap shots he threw. He threw one at Tyrel in the back of his head and elbowed Brady. I’ve never seen him act like that before,” Collins said. “College is different, I guess. I’d never seen him like that.”

Clemente had said after the game his elbow to Morningstar was in retaliation for a Morningstar elbow that went undetected by the refs.

“I didn’t throw any elbows,” Morningstar said. “I’m not trying to get in any arguments with him. I’m defending myself. If that’s what he thinks, that’s what he thinks.”

Morningstar wears boot: KU’s Morningstar wore a boot Monday to protect his bruised lower-left leg. Self said Morningstar would have been able to play in a game Monday had one been scheduled. He should be able to play in Wednesday’s game against Iowa State (7 p.m., Allen Fieldhouse).

Signee breaks bone in hand: KU signee Thomas Robinson recently broke his third metacarpal on his left (non-shooting) hand. The 6-8 power forward from Brewster Academy in Wolfeboro, N.H., said Monday night he likely will be out of action a week to 10 days.

Robinson grabbed 17 rebounds in a game last week while playing with the broken bone in his hand. He was unaware it was broken until visiting with doctors about swelling.

“I’ll be back for the playoffs and all-star games,” said Robinson,’s No. 18-rated player nationally.

He’s wearing a soft cast on his left hand.


jesusturds 9 years, 2 months ago

Fitzgerald is a douche. I think its a desperate attempt to try and turn the tables. KU had a few scuffles with the little hot tempered Puerto Rican. The talented kid, Clemente, admits to elbowing Morningstar in retaliation to a in-game foul. He said he was glad he got the technical to show that nobody elbows him in "his house". Excellent work Penis..oh i mean, Denis..because that technical swung momentum and helped KU win the battle on the court. And while Clemente hit Reed with 31 seconds, Kansas was the "bigger man" and got their retaliation on the score board. So don't try and make KU look like the blue meanies..ya bunch o' soar losin power kittens..

MIke Mallory 9 years, 2 months ago

hey denis, act like your coach, oh you did, once a punk, always a 22 year old punk!!

igby 9 years, 2 months ago

He kind of looks like an over weight Dali Lama! Lol.

jaywalker 9 years, 2 months ago

Didn't get to see the game but from all accounts I heard it was extremely loud. Considering the deafening crowd and the fact that all KU bench chatter would be directed to the court, how could any of this guy's "staff" have possibly gotten close enough to the bench to hear any comments from players? Coach wouldn't allow it. And I'm not buying it.

Omegatron 9 years, 2 months ago

From the bench?

Not the floor where all the action was. Not from the guys on the court mixing it up.

From the bench?

Right... and everyone outside of wildcat country is suppose to believe him why?

weeslicket 9 years, 2 months ago

it really doesn't matter what tryel reed, or bill self, or frank martin, or denis clemente, or anyone else may think about this topic. all this information will be relayed to the league offices (including the league offices of officiating) according to the ascribed-to procedures, and the league offices will come to some determination regarding these actions (players), and responses to these actions (officials). so, let's wait and see.

in the meantime, i would like to read pilrim's (either pilgrim1's or pilgrim2's) analysis of these refereeing situations. i look forward to your commentary.

fairplay 9 years, 2 months ago

"Where's your green card?" That's weak. You gotta hope that if the team WERE to utter racial nonsense they would at least come up with something better.

"That's not us, not our character." translated: "If we were going to risk pi$$ing off Bill we would have been much more creative. We're not wasting 3 straight hours of wind sprints on "Where's your green card?" Do we look stupid?

Joel Hood 9 years, 2 months ago

K-Staters always fabricate the most outrageous garbage about KU. In the late eighties HS friends of mine, who went to KSU, told me that Danny was the biggest coke dealer in town - they were dead serious. We really don't appreciate their hatred of KU. We may see it as a little brother/big brother rivalry, but they don't. They detest KU and will believe ANYTHING that makes KU look bad.

XEPCT 9 years, 2 months ago

I didn't think Puerto Ricans needed green cards, since they are US citizens ... I could be wrong.

areyouserious 9 years, 2 months ago

Tim Fitzgerald has a ton of credibility, just ask Bill Snyder................he is the reason Bill Snyder is the football coach right now......he leaked the story about the TCU coach taking the K-State job, and once Patterson found out, he said piss on Tim Fitzgerald and all of wildcat nation......Bill Snyder tried "again" to save the face of the little brother institution and took the job, but didnt want to! Tim Fitzgerald has as much credibility as Jack Harry, they are both d-bags...........................Clemente you are a punk, live with it, you play for one. It is very common for the little brother to get testy when he cannot defeat the big brother, get used to it!!!

p.s. You are 1-24 in "your house".................yeah you got your respect alright!!!!!!!

SmallBeans 9 years, 2 months ago

What I love is the blind support some KU fans have for their school. I just got on to research the "trash talking" that I was informed of by a KU insider. The two comments he reported hearing are nearly perfectly quoted in this article. However, he will now fade into the background after Bill's vehement denial that anything could have happened of which he was not aware. "Support the claim that something derogatory was said or keep my job... Nope, I didn't hear anything."

Clemente will get his punishment. It will not be enough for most of the KU faithful. But, he has admitted (I know he couldn't really deny it) he messed up.

Oh, and since I am in this deep... red_devil said, "Your team lost, again. And no, you don't want another crack at Kansas or you'll lose to them 3 times in one year and that would be yet another embarrassing setback to your weak program."

Pretty sure that if the technical foul hadn't occurred, there probably would have been a very different outcome. The "weak program" you are talking about handled KU in the first half and didn't lose control of the game until the idiot threw an elbow.

ChampFantana 9 years, 2 months ago

"Pretty sure that if the technical foul hadn't occurred, there probably would have been a very different outcome."

KSU was on their way to losing that game even before the Technical. KU had outscored KSU 39-21 in the previous 15 minutes.

Joel Hood 9 years, 2 months ago

Ummm, SmallBeans... is a half-time 1-point lead on your own home court really considered "handled"? The Clemente T was clearly a momentum shift, but KU was also gaining momentum before that point, or Clemente wouldn't have been so frustrated. KSU had plenty of chances to come back and KU gave them lots of opportunities near the end of the game.

SmallBeans 9 years, 2 months ago

Champ- I then went on to say, "The “weak program” you are talking about handled KU in the first half and didn't lose control of the game until the idiot threw an elbow." I didn't mean to imply that it was the blowout that started the game... but they were far from losing control.

jaywalker 9 years, 2 months ago

"What I love is the blind support some KU fans have for their school"

Blind support? So those that back the program should instantly believe alleged hearsay reported by a third party, an allegation that has never occurred before? Some unnamed person 'heard' comments from the bench directed outward toward the court in a deafening arena? And in that atmosphere the only "KU insider" that could have heard anything from the bench is a coach or trainer. Pardon the skepticism, but Coach Self runs a class program. And it's nothing if not logical to believe in the class of your own program rather than loose allegations raised in defense of a player who proclaims "noone's gonna punk me in our house" after throwing an elbow and then a punch, not in 'retaliation' as he claims 'cuz we've all seen the tapes, but out of frustration and poor sportsmanship. If Fitzgerald actually had something solid there's no reason to leave the staff that heard such comments unnamed. Even Martin acknowledges his skepticism and backs Self.
Blind loyalty? Sorry, beans, just a rational weighing of the facts in evidence.

SmallBeans 9 years, 2 months ago

No one but a coach or athletic trainer could have heard anything? Please...

And, I was in no way defending what Clemente did. But, just because he acted the way he did doesn't mean that he was the only one that did anything wrong.

Remember the old adage that the second guy is the one to get caught? Funny how in all of the other basketball games he didn't act like that. Some one suddenly acting (I hesitate to say "out of character")... differently than before does make one wonder why the sudden change in character. No, sorry, should say, "behavior" as I can't attest to his character.

I do not disagree that Self runs a pretty clean program, but to say that nothing could have been said that the coach would not be proud of is asinine. No one is ever in complete control of anything.

Seriously? A punch? I'll give you a very classless slap to the back of his head, but a punch?

And, there is VERY good reason to leave the staff unnamed! We aren't getting State Tax returns this year because the economy sucks and cutbacks must be made.

News_to_me 9 years, 2 months ago

Really all that needs to be said is teams are a reflection of their coach. Kids are gonna' play hard, especially in a rivalry game. Clemente is a helluva' player but he got frustrated and let his emotions get the best of him. As you can see by the photo, he had his elbow up in Brady's face right before the cheap shot in the back. He was pushing off and hooking guys with his left arm a lot and got away with it. It's over. Let it go and show some class. I like Fitz but I can't imagine anybody could hear much of anything in that environment. And, if it was quiet enough to hear anything, I would think that more people would have been aware of what was said. Fitz has a staff? Cool.

rtwngr 9 years, 2 months ago

SmallBeans - Yes you are defending Clemente. Teams baiting each other has been going on for ever. I am sure the Jayhawk teams over the years have done their share of "nastiness". I am equally sure that they have been on the receiving end of some pretty over the top comments. Clemente needs to learn to play with his head and check his bad temper at the scorer's table before he heads on to the court. Same for the Morris twins.

What I am looking forward to next is KU punking K-State in football again this fall.

jaywalker 9 years, 2 months ago

"No one but a coach or athletic trainer could have heard anything? Please…"

Please what? In the roar that enveloped Bramlage how is anyone nearly close enough to make out anything?

"And, I was in no way defending what Clemente did. But, just because he acted the way he did doesn't mean that he was the only one that did anything wrong."

No, it doesn't, but the inverse of that statement is even more correct; just because Clemente did THREE things wrong, on the court and off, doesn't mean someone from KU did as well. My reply to you was in your assertion of blind loyalty by KU fans. I readily concede that it's possible that a 'hawk did something wrong. But there's no proof whatsoever. Your criticism basically blames Hawks fans for not taking it for granted that something was said. If there were proof of such most fans would be disgusted and disappointed and call out the player. Exceptionally questionable hearsay from a third party Catbacker ain't gonna cut it, though.

"to say that nothing could have been said that the coach would not be proud of is asinine."

Yes, I suppose it would be. Except I nor anyone else ever said such. The point is that if Coach was aware of such vitriole he wouldn't sit still for it.

"Seriously? A punch? I'll give you a very classless slap to the back of his head, but a punch?"

Fine, let's argue semantics. 'Classless' is the key word and the tape I saw looked like a closed fist but it was grainy, and either way the 'contact' will probably go along with 'suspension' by the end of the day.

"And, there is VERY good reason to leave the staff unnamed! We aren't getting State Tax returns this year because the economy sucks and cutbacks must be made."

Sorry, but that's beyond silly. First, we're talking about Fitzgerald's 'staff'. You figure a K-State homer program media assistant is going to lose his job for going public about something he heard a KU player say? And if you're referring to your supposed "KU insider" getting fired for coming out he'd have a humongous suit for wrongful termination that would pay oodles more than he makes now. Give me a slight break.

This is real easy: Clemente lashed out twice with no provocation. It's possible something was said from the bench, but that wouldn't excuse Clemente's actions in any way. And there's no proof anything was said other than claims from one person who didn't hear it himself. And considering the noise level in the arena it's highly questionable whether anyone could have actually heard what's been claimed. You spout about 'blind loyalty', but the issue with your post is your blind bias. You obviously want to believe Fitzgerald's questionable claims. That's a 'you' problem, not an issue of 'blind loyalty' by KU fans.

Thats_messed_up 9 years, 2 months ago

Here's some good video of the cheaters.

Sheron says it's not in KU players character to talk smack from the bench. LOL Isn't this the guy who should be serving time for sexual assault in an elevator? Yeah I believe him. LOL

mom_of_three 9 years, 2 months ago

You are going to use a Jack Henry report, which only shows the contact KU had, and not anything else during the game? How one-sided of you, which includes Jack's report.
Clemente was reaching and smacking the ball, Reed cleared his space, and hit clemente. Foul was called....A FOUL WAS CALLED..... Brady was playing defense, and hhmm, did clemente step on his foot, or was that clemente hooking brady around the head....A FOUL WAS CALLED........

I sure would like to see the entire game again, because I am sure there was lots that went on....what do you expect with a rivalry game.

mom_of_three 9 years, 2 months ago

And you only serve time for a crime if you are charged and convicted, which he never was even charged....

Joel Hood 9 years, 2 months ago

T_M_U - you have got to be kidding... This video????????? At worst, Brady was out position and was called for the foul - there was NO cheap shot and Jack Harry is dreaming. Tyrel was called for an offensive foul. You do understand that KU was called for the fouls and that helped KSU - right?? Clemente was given a T for a cheap shot and he got away with another cheap shot. How is this KU cheating? And what's this TIme Served claim on Sherron??? You sound like a typical K-Hater trying to fabricate stories on KU - pathetic.

SmallBeans 9 years, 2 months ago

jaywalker you win. I am done beating my head against the wall.

Obviously it would be impossible to find a "legit" reason to let an employee go in this day of economic stress and avoid the lawsuit situation. If you believe that, you must be upper management. The average worker can easily be fired for a plethora of reasons.

You are right. I am biased and illogical. I have tried to point out that there were problems on both sides... always have been and always will be. However, I was told these quotes from an employee in blue on Saturday evening. Fishy to me that he would know what Fitgerald would be claiming later on.

You will not accept that, and I understand. If the roles were reversed, I wouldn't either. It is what it is. I am done with this thread.

mom_of_three 9 years, 2 months ago

Has anyone else looked at the video of the Technical lately? I thought it was weird how Brady stopped moving, and seemed to throw his leg up, and then I noticed that Clemente stepped on his foot. Course I still don't know how Clemente's arm ended up on Brady's shoulder, around his head....

mom_of_three 9 years, 2 months ago

interesting that a KSU fan has the same video on youtube, but is entitled Morningstar punches Clemente. I just don't see it. His arm is hidden in front oc clemente, but i don't see his arm move to call it a punch.
Jack Harry evidently thinks it a punch, but he doesn't explain how clemente's arm ended up around Brady's head.... KU may have taken shots at KSU players, goes on in every game, but KU got called for fouls for the ones that KSU fans are complaining about. KSU - not so much.

jaywalker 9 years, 2 months ago

I've seen the replay from front and back numerous times and Brady never threw any elbows or punches of any kind, the movement of his arm to the front of his body was exactly as LS04 surmised, he was protecting the jewels and/or his gut. It was pretty solid defense, he slid in Clemente's path and if Denis doesn't throw that left arm up Brady's shoulder it could have been a no-call, the contact wouldn't have been so eye-catching.
And I agree with logicsound on his above points and would add a third: that there was no 'apology', no act of contrition, in fact he attempted to justify the elbow. If the Big 12 doesn't suspend him for tonight's cupcake game I'll be very surprised.

mom_of_three 9 years, 2 months ago

i watched the new video without sound, so I didn't catch that part. I was watching the feet in particular, and it looks like Clemente stepped on Brady's foot which happens all the time. then they got entangled a bit...Doesn't really matter, Morningstar got called for the foul, which anyone would have called the contact.... Still doesn't explain clemente's arm on brady's shoulder as he is trying to go by him.... Just a game where the refs lost control early....

LooPerkinsucks 9 years, 2 months ago

You KU fans are all idiots for the most part. Hell, just go back and look at the spelling and capitalization mistakes! Shut your mouths when it comes to trash talk, because you suck at it. Was it just last week that you chumps were calling the KU players "thugs in uniforms"??? I thought so... Most of these guys should be playing prison ball.

BigAl 9 years, 2 months ago

Apparently the Big12 and KSU agree that Clemente needs to chill. According to a K-State release, "Clemente committed a fighting act as defined by Section 4 of the NCAA Basketball Rules and must serve a suspension for the next contest."

Spin it all you want LooPerkins but Clemente is a punk. Now we know why Miami got rid of him.

mom_of_three 9 years, 2 months ago

when i am posting on a blog, i am really watching my spelling and capitalization in case the spelling police are watching....puhleasse!!!!!!!!!!!! Why would we, KU fans, call KU players thugs in uniforms?
what a big, loser numnut!

LooPerkinsucks 9 years, 2 months ago

Well, here ya go mom of three, here's just one comment. I don 't feel like wasting my time on you, so you read more for yourself and shut your pie hole...

Tarrant (Anonymous) says…

Benched??? How about bussed…right back to Philly. I don't like having thugs in Kansas uniforms.

If you want to read more whining a$$ comments about KU from KU fans, you can go back and look at the archive from Feb 10th, after the pathetic loss to MU. The story is called "Border Bummer". Any story about KU sports should be called "Bandwagon Bummer", since you all like to jump on and off of it so much! I'm out, gotta go fishin'!

BigAl 9 years, 2 months ago

Band Wagon jumping? Allen Fieldhouse has been sold out for years. Bramlage and even Wal-Mart Arena in Columbia rarely sell out a game. Normally, it takes Kansas to sell out those arenas. If anyone has bandwagon fans, it definitely isn't Kansas.
The envy and jealousy on LooPerkinsucks is really showing through. What a loser.

LooPerkinsucks 9 years, 2 months ago

Idiots... I don't even like basketball, I just think it's funny when you stupid f-ers come out in bunches and try to act all tough and cocky by typing on the computer! I have to admit that I am a bit jealous though, but that's only because I have a real job and don't have as much down time as you slackers do to play around on the computer and bicker about the dumbest sh*t possible. Why don't you liberal d-bags get a job and leave the sports talk up to the pros!? Suck it.

jaywalker 9 years, 2 months ago

A 'real' job? Oh, I think they're callin' ya now, Loo. 'Nother bull ready for...ahem......servicing.

bad_dog 9 years, 2 months ago

If you click on the photo above, you can see Brady's open right hand in front of his stomach and between the two players. Note the hand is open and not a clenched fist, so Brady either just punched him and immediately opened up his hand, or it just didn't happen.

Given the former is highly unlikely considering the time lapse, I'm going with the latter explanation, i.e. it didn't happen.

As for SmallBeans' comments re: whether Clemente's behavior was out of character, he had similar behavior in the Las Vegas Tournament last November.

"Clemente, K-State's junior point guard, fouled out after scoring only two points. His frustration was evident on several occasions, including once when an official had to step between him and Iowa's Jeff Peterson."

"I think he was still frustrated, like everybody else, with the loss yesterday," Martin said. "When he picked up those early fouls, he got a little frustrated."

That incident occurred just 7 games into the season. Let's not forget Clemente's two suspensions from the Miami team for violating team rules. Read it and weep SmallBeans and Looperkinsucks. It is what it is and Clemente is what he is. Fill in the blanks yourself-there's a world of adjectives out there just waiting to be used.

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