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Archive for Wednesday, February 4, 2009

Flag concern

February 4, 2009

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To the editor:

I’m making my mother proud by writing this letter because the subject is one of her pet peeves!

Today, I drove my son to South Junior High. As I was leaving, I looked up on the flagpole, and the United States flag was shredded and barely hanging on. The Kansas flag below it was barely recognizable. I know times are tough, but please can’t we get these flags replaced?

I also know that these flags are flown 24/7/365. Isn’t it flag etiquette to illuminate them when this is done? I’m pretty sure there is plenty of electrical line out there, or, if not, can’t they assign students to lower the flag. I think there are one or two Boy Scouts that know and can teach how it’s done!

Dick Sheppard,
Lawrence

Comments

Ragingbear 5 years, 6 months ago

There is no listed etiquette for illumination on flags. However, there are protocols for weathered flags.

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labmonkey 5 years, 6 months ago

I could be wrong, but I thought a flag must be illuminated if flown after sundown.

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FMT6488 5 years, 6 months ago

U.S. Flag policy websites -http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.htmlhttp://www.vpfa.fsu.edu/policies/bmanual/flag.htmlhttp://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htmThat last site has the best listing and clearly states that when flown at night the flag should be illuminated. Also- The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

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jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

Here's hoping some generous soul donates some respectable flags to the school.

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ToriFreak13 5 years, 6 months ago

When I was in Junior High it was an extra credit activity to write Senator Dole for a US flag and Governor Hayden for a State flag. Dole sent us a US flag that had flown on top of the US Capitol on the 4th of July (they supposedly fly a ton of flags up there on that day), and Mike Hayden graciously visited the Jr. High to present a Kansas flag to us. Keep in mind this was at McLouth....I'm sure that Sam, Pat, or Kathleen can find a minute to stop by Lawrence for a noble reason.

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jonas_opines 5 years, 6 months ago

4125: "There's plenty of help in this town to burn it, so that part's covered."Not getting enough attention? Poor baby, have someone scratch your belly for you. Less embarrassing for you than gibbering like that.

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kansasfire911 5 years, 6 months ago

You can drop off flags at the American Legion building and they will dispose of it properly and acourding to etiquette.

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Joe Hyde 5 years, 6 months ago

As every individual citizen, private business and public agency that elects to install a flagpole soon learns, flying the U.S. flag gets to be an expensive activity. Flags can be very pricey.Flags come in a variety of materials, some are more durable than others. But even the best flags can't long withstand the 1-2 punch landed by daily exposure to ultraviolet radiation and wind tatter. (That popping sound you hear a flag make on a windy day is the whip-crack of the flag's fluttering border breaking the sound barrier.)The lifespan of flags can be extended, though. It's good to periodically lower a flag and inspect it for tears in its end. If any tears are found, remove the flag (replacing with a fresh one if you've got one) and take it to a flag repair shop. What the repair shop will do is trim off the end of the flag, removing the stripe section back to the point where the tear starts, then they fold the trimmed end over and re-sew the border.If the tears are discovered soon enough (when they are short) and repaired, a flag will last quite a while (although repeated repairs will result in the flag becoming shorter and shorter, eventually getting to the point where it looks more like a square than a rectangle).The main thing is to catch the little tears in the stripe field before they extend too far back toward the star field. Once the long shredding starts it's about impossible to re-sew the flag with any hope of durability.Don't know if there's a repair shop any closer, but there's a good shop in Kansas City, MO that does this sort of work. All-Nations Flag Co. It's located on 5th St. about two blocks west of the City Market.

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rusty2 5 years, 6 months ago

$4.4 million for artificial turf for 'status sports' but can't repsect the flag - that's USD administration - about the same regard that they have for taxpayers.

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jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

It was an honor to be a member of the flag guard when I was in school. A crew of three to run it up in the morning, and three to retrieve her after school. 'Course, I was on post and overseas at the time and sometimes I feel my sense of patriotism was either enhanced by such things or never really shared by everyone else. Hearing revelie every morning and stopping a car and getting out for taps every night has a powerful effect.

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sfjayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

who gives a crap? It is a piece of cloth for cryin out loud! We have much bigger issues to worry about people.

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Whip101 5 years, 6 months ago

Replace it with an Israeli flag - god knows they control this country anyway - might as well show it.

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Kyle Reed 5 years, 6 months ago

sfjayhawk (Anonymous) says… "who gives a crap? It is a piece of cloth for cryin out loud! We have much bigger issues to worry about people"Way to try to make your point while at the same time underlining the point of the author of the letter.Oh, and for the record, I give a crap as do I'm sure the families of thousands that have shed their blood for what that flag stands for. Try not to let any thoughts of them get in the way of you not "giving a crap". I'm sure you'll have no trouble with that.

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cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 6 months ago

Akreed: Those who shed their blood did so to protect our rights, one of which is to not give a crap. No one ever died protecting a piece of cloth, they died protecting the rights it embodies. In it's own, paradox-like way, not giving a crap is a celebration of those rights.Twisted...

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sfjayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

Akreed, The flag stands for different things to different people - but at the end of the day it is nothing more than a piece of cloth. My point is that before we spend a bunch of energy getting all worked up over a silly piece of cloth, we ought to channel that energy into more productive uses. If people got equally upset about the low quality of education that the kids receive inside the school instead of worrying about a crappy piece of cloth flying outside of it, we might get someplace. And for the record my feelings about the flag says nothing about how I feel about the great men and women that serve our country. The ones I have spoken to about their service never mention a crappy flag as the reason the they sacrifice so much, they speak about their fellow soldiers and the bonds they have as their motivation.

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rusty2 5 years, 6 months ago

must not be too many veterans in the USD 497 administration --- a bunch of 'chickenhawks'?i don't know would be good to find out.

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cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 6 months ago

madmike, you are a typical ill-tempered 4th grade child. I can think of no one else who would post only insults to egg people on, and jokes about people being burned alive. http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/feb/02/more-100-dead-gasoline-blaze/#c802585it must be awesome being you. Don't let Mom catch you skipping school.

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bastet 5 years, 6 months ago

I suspect sometimes people lose the point in debates such as this:Of course, the flag itself is only a piece of cloth, but it is representative of many things, and one can see it as a small external presentation to the world. When we don't pay attention to the care of the flag and allow it to become shabby and torn, we might be presenting a small external sign of our carelessness and disinterest in citizenship. Learning flag ettiquette as a young person and taking pride in that process is a small way to help children see the larger (and more substantive) ways to be good citizens, and they might learn how to "give a crap" about what happens in their commnunity and nation. I sort of equate it with learning to dress neatly for church and school and work; you take some pride in what you do and who you are when you present a certain amount of external pride. You are also showing respect for others.There is nothing wrong with maintaining a certain level of ceremony and respect for the flag. Then the flag does what it is supposed to do: remind us of our fortune here in this country and how grateful we should be for it.Of course, the world won't end if the flag is not displayed properly, but when it isn't, a small level of respect, dignity and pride is lost.

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jonas_opines 5 years, 6 months ago

4125: No problem. Just looking out for your sense of self-worth.

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jonas_opines 5 years, 6 months ago

"I can think of no one else who would post only insults to egg people on, and jokes about people being burned alive."Unfortunately, Cthulhu, I can think of a number of them.

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sfjayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

Many people do not believe that caring about a crappy piece of cloth says anything about values or patriotism. In fact most people believe that it is much more important to care about real world issues and to work to fix the real problems that we face than to worry about some symbol that cant do any one any good. I think its pretty telling that the people that get so caught up in a symbol are usually the same people that have never done anything to help another person or have never served their country. If by burning every flag in America we could ease the suffering of even one person on this planet it would be worth it.

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cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 6 months ago

cthulhu_4_president (Anonymous) says…Twisted…******Pilgrim2 (Anonymous) says…Yes, you are.******Can't deny that. So are we all.

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Kirk Larson 5 years, 6 months ago

75x55 (Anonymous) says…There's plenty of help in this town to burn it, so that part's covered.Liberals wrap themselves in the Constitution and burn the flag.Conservatives wrap themselves in the flag and burn the Constitution.

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sfjayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

tempting, lack of pride in a crappy piece of cloth and lack of pride in a country are quite a bit different. Many people who love the symbol are horrible people that have no pride what so ever. One of the biggest issues we face is dealing with people that think that because the 'love' a crappy worthless piece of cloth, that they do not have to be responsible for anything else. they take the easy, cowards way out of dealing with real issues. Why are you so stuck on something that has no value?

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cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 6 months ago

tempting:"....and i'm certain that this lack of pride trickles down to every aspect of our society. from the way we dress, through the way we educate & care for our children."----------------So as long as we dress as you would and raise our children as you would see fit, then it's ok right? Silly me, I thought this was the land of the free as your 2:11 post would indicate. Thought like yours is what is actually wrong with our country. Come into my home, go through my closet and please tell me what I must wear to appease your sense of patriotism, hypocrite.

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rachaelisacancer 5 years, 6 months ago

Cappy got it. Minus the broad generalization part, of course, but still got it.

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jumpin_catfish 5 years, 6 months ago

I'm feelin' some anger here. The flag is a symbol and yes just a piece of cloth and in and of itself not of much value but the symbol has value that only each person can fully appreciate. With that said God bless America and may it always be a place where people can feel free to have an opinion, after all that's what the symbol stands for.

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cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 6 months ago

tempting:"You don't agree with me that if you teach your children pride in themselves and their things that they will be more productive members of society?:-----------You fail to understand that what strikes a chord with me is someone like you telling everyone else what "pride" in one's country means, and that if someone does not exhibit an acceptable level of what you call "pride", then they are un-patriotic, second-class citizens. You went on to insinuate that you knew the way that everyone should be raised and dress to exhibit the proper amount of "pride" for our country, as if bleating out the star-spangled banner afterward makes it ok. So, again, please tell me how I can change my wardrobe to show the proper amount of pride, then tell me how that does not represent a curtailing of the freedom that you supposedly love.

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badger 5 years, 6 months ago

If you think the flag is a useless piece of cloth, you are free to neither display nor salute it, and I will not attempt to force or convince you to do so. I will vehemently support your right not to care.HoweverIf you care enough about the flag to put one up, you should read the flag code and treat it properly. If it's going to be up during inclement weather, get an all-weather flag. If it's going to be up at night, get lights on it. Replace it when it becomes worn, and check it regularly for wear.The flag is just a symbol. By itself, it's a meaningless collection of pieces of cloth put together in a fairly artistically boring arrangement, to be honest. But when someone takes the time and effort to put it up on a flagpole for all the world to see, that someone is making a statement about the meaning of that symbol. And when the statement he makes about the meaning of the symbol is "I care just enough to show that I acknowledge that this symbol means something to some people, but not enough to actually commit to regular care and maintenance of it," that, to me, is hypocritical and self-serving, and worse than not caring enough to display one at all.

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cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 6 months ago

"someone like you telling everyone else ".......should read "any one person (such as you) telling everyone else". My problem isn't with one person in particular, but with anyone who will blindly define patriotism with a thump on the chest.

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cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 6 months ago

tempting: almost there, but not quite. Think a little harder and you'll get it. Done here.

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asleepinthechapel 5 years, 6 months ago

cthulhu_4_president (Anonymous) says…My problem isn't with one person in particular, but with anyone who will blindly define patriotism with a thump on the chest.--------------------Good one.

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gogoplata 5 years, 6 months ago

Some folks are born made to wave the flag. Oooh theyre red white and blue.Too many "patriots" out there waving the flag for all to see and at the same time voting for politicians who trample the constitution. Here is a youtube for all you super flag waving patriots. Get the freedom pack.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5tldEQg6is

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sfjayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

Hey Mike, I definitely have right and wrong in my world. And to me, the people that think that all they need to do to be a 'patriot' and 'love their country " is love a crappy symbol and thump their chest are way wrong.

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labmonkey 5 years, 6 months ago

Hey LJW board monitor, please remove Whip101's comment above. That is totally unnecessary.

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jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

sfjayhawk: "Many people do not believe that caring about a crappy piece of cloth says anything about values or patriotism"Perhaps, sfjayhawk. But you're the only one on this board. And as I've read over your posts I've noticed a common theme: ambiguous generalization. In fact all you have to 'say', as it were, is nothing BUT fairly ridiculous generalization. Allow me to illustrate:-"most people believe" -"the people that get so caught up in a symbol are usually the same people that have never done anything"-"The ones I have spoken to about their service never mention a crappy flag " .......(ask them directly about it, sfjay, they will)-"Many people who love the symbol are horrible people that have no pride what so ever"-"One of the biggest issues we face is dealing with people that think that because the 'love' a crappy worthless piece of cloth, .."Pardon me for interrupting the generalization fest, but "one of the biggest issues we face" is people respecting the flag? And your first post was "we have bigger issues"? Which is it? Please don't hurt yourself by answering. The more I read over that hypocritical and ignorant paragraph I'm torn between laughing at you and being concerned for your challenged intellect.Back to the 'ridiculizations':-........."that they do not have to be responsible for anything else. they take the easy, cowards way out of dealing with real issues"-"the people that think that all they need to do to be a 'patriot' and 'love their country ” is love a crappy symbol and thump their chest are way wrong.I'm curious if you actually believe you made a single coherent, factual argument with any of that? (Please say 'no', please say 'no'....)"If by burning every flag in America we could ease the suffering of even one person on this planet it would be worth it."Brilliant. And plausible. Gonna file that potential solution away......In summation, let me first advise you that what you can't see with your eyes nor prove with experience should never be invented with your mouth.AND...for all your railing against those wasting their time and energy on something as inconsequential as a piece of cloth, you should look in the mirror and question why you've spent twice as much time and energy in opposition. For all your childish, nonsensical spewing this is simply a YOU problem, pal. Good luck with all that.

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jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

Ease up, labmonkey, after all it's not often this board is visited by the likes of Mel Gibson.

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Clint Church 5 years, 6 months ago

It's not just the schools that are flying tattered flags. Almost every flag flying at a business is falling apart. While I love to see the American flag waving in the wind, if you can't afford to replace it when it needs to be replaced than you shouldn't being flying it in the first place.

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sfjayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

Jaywalker - you are the case in point - I bet you are one of those people who has never contributed anything to this country or served her for one minute. But you comfort yourself with the fact that you love some crappy piece of cloth, and are content that it is all you need to do. Yes, that is a problem. If more people got off their fat asses and actually contributed, we might make some progress with the problems we face. But dont let me bother you, go back to staring at a flag, it will solve everything. Bravo!

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jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

"I bet you are one of those people who has never contributed anything to this country or served her for one minute. But you comfort yourself with the fact that you love some crappy piece of cloth, and are content that it is all you need to do"I am shocked, I say, shocked that you'd retort with more inaccurate, nonsensical generalizations, sfjay. You know nothing about me nor anyone else on this string, but somehow you jump to the moronic conclusion that anyone who respects the symbolism of our flag is a lazy, do-nothing that's never contributed anything to society. I'd go further, but arguing with a fool is a waste of time. Have a nice life.........sentence, that is. You are certifiable.

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sfjayhawk 5 years, 6 months ago

Hi Jaywalker! Certifiable is someone who thinks loving an inanimate object is some how a respectable 'value' and that the harder you love the object, the more patriotic you are - Like the flag you hold so dear, or your blow up doll for instance. Have a nice life - in fantasy land!

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jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

Did_I:Thanks for the info, didn't catch your first posting that the issue had been resolved, happy to hear it.And thank you for the above poignant words. Spot on.

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badger 5 years, 6 months ago

Just a side note, you know why so many flags you see are in bad shape now?Because an awful lot of them are just a little less than seven years and five months old.And the people who own them haven't thought terribly much about them, or patriotism, since.

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BigAl 5 years, 6 months ago

I remember when my typical far-right thinking neighbor was mad after 9/11 because Lawrence had apparently sold out of flags. I asked her why didn't she already own one? I did and still fly it proudly to this day. The corrupt far-right wing media and some far-right people on here want you to believe that only Republicans are patriotic. I find that a lot of them are patriotic when convenient.

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Whip101 5 years, 6 months ago

labmonkey (Anonymous) says…"Hey LJW board monitor, please remove Whip101's comment above. That is totally unnecessary."It's okay, labmonkey. You see, (as some here have so graciously pointed out), soldiers died for EVERYONE'S RIGHT to have an opinion, belief, etcetera. Even mine. Of course the last people who died for that right were soldiers in the Revolutionary war when they stood up to the British and died for independence, thereby opening the door to the writing of the Constitution, that this government no longer recognizes - just as many of the citizens do not. You know, people who want other peoples words censored because they self-righteously object to them, (see "freedom of speech"). Yes, the Constitution of the United States has been laid to waste, and it has been done so by the Zionist with dual, (U.S./Israeli) citizenship. The American flag means nothing. It is but an illusion to pacify and placate the masses, (a.k.a. sheeples). Those who wish to ignore that the Constitution this country was built upon, and that flag originally represented, are like the proverbial ostrich with its head stuck in the sand - they are either hiding from the truth, or refuse to educate themselves to it. Bless their little hearts.Bury the American flag. Take it down from all the schools and all the public buildings; make it a felony for private citizens to own it. It stands for nothing any more. I say again, replace it with the Israeli flag, for it is the Zionist who own this country and its government, and so it is their flag we should be flying.

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