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Letters to the Editor

Dishonest tactics

August 18, 2009

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To the editor:

A price has to be paid. Lies, fear-mongering and pretended outrage against nonexistent health care reform proposals go beyond legitimate political debate. We need to be clear about that, as Mr. Obama has said repeatedly. Those responsible for it can’t be allowed a free pass under the claim that such tactics are included in the rough and tumble of democratic politics.

Sen. Chuck Grassley, Gov. Sarah Palin and now Rep. Todd Tiarht are using the same straw-man tactics employed in past health care debates to create confusion and discourage endorsement of deserving reform measures.

The disrupters of public meeting have nothing to lose but their self-respect. But the politicians who encourage them and repeat their lies should be made to pay a political price. We tolerate exaggeration and political posturing of all kinds during campaigns and discourage single-issue thinking. But for such bald-faced lying, exclusion from public office is an appropriate price. If the Republicans want to regain respect, they should be the first to discipline their members. A price has to be paid.

Comments

macabebe 4 years, 8 months ago

Porch Person:

The Krugman piece did not answer my question.

Can you share a ink to an actual “Government hands off my Medicare” sign?

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Stain 4 years, 8 months ago

If those against reform have good arguments and valid points, why don't they just argue them?

They resort to lies, fear, racism, bigotry, intimidation, interruption, suppression of other viewpoints, and violence because that is a substitute for a real debate which they would not win.

I am not sure the sheep know it, but the ones organizing and inciting these behavior do know it.

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Bob Hechlor 4 years, 8 months ago

See, when you have so much money, you can spend it on deceiving people so that you can make even more money. Nice work if you can get it.

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Bob Hechlor 4 years, 8 months ago

Several ad agencies and some politicians got together and threw a repub "protest." They are saying, "we will put those peasants back in their place." If we continue to control healthcare and energy, we can suck them dry.

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Bob Hechlor 4 years, 8 months ago

Here is a link to a bogus grass roots organization, "Energy Citizens," sponsored by the energy industry and "Freedom Works," the Dick Armey fake group. You know Dick Armey, who like Cheney, lies for a living.

These groups are going to "March on Washington." It is not enough to lobby at a mill and 1/2 a day. They have to bus people in as well. (employees) Then for 10 grand they can give a speech. Sound like a grassroots deal to you?

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Bob Hechlor 4 years, 8 months ago

Satirical, You call this a contribution to this discussion? You put in a quote from an editorial, from a person who doesn't even provide a name and from the Rupert Murdoch rag. Also, just because you can't comprehend something doesn't mean the explainer is contradicting themself. Likely, you are just looking for contradictions because you sell insurance. Tough luck.

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Satirical 4 years, 8 months ago

"Over the past week, President Obama has held three town-halls to make the case for his health-care plan. While he didn't say much that he hasn't said a thousand times before, his remarks did offer another explanation for the public's skepticism of ObamaCare. Namely, the President contradicts himself every other breath."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574360541357223298.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

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Bob Hechlor 4 years, 8 months ago

John Ensign, a classic example of republican hypocrisy. He has an affair with his best friend's wife and the best friend also works for him and he will not provide information about how money was spent which could indicate that he used taxpayer money to finance his escapades. While not cooperating, he now brings up how Bill Clinton should have resigned. And this, while he has no plan to resign whatsoever. Yah, repubs, you can pick em. The more crooked, the better. And he is one of the C street stars, along with Brownback and Tiahrt.

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Bob Hechlor 4 years, 8 months ago

The repubs continue to astro-turf, recruiting persons who are employees of these major insurance, healthcare and energy corporations to be bused in to pretend to be grassroots protesters. They are still paid as if they were working. These corporations are still spending 1.4 million dollars a day to lobby congress to defeat healthcare legislation. Now the corporations are putting out ads on TV pretending they are in favor of healthcare reform. They are attempting to have it both ways. They act like they are supporting efforts to make healthcare available to more people on the one hand and then on the other hand, they are paying people to protest against it. This is the leadership of the republican party doing this kind of bogus staging. So, in spite of that, we have several loyalists who continue to come here and defend this. If they are not getting paid, then they are seriously misguided. All of what I am reporting here has been confirmed. Any of you loyalists wish to defend this deception and if so, how can you not be part of it yourself?

P S continuing in this vein, we just learned that the coal industry sent out bogus letters from non-profit organizations, saying that they support "clean coal." This is fraud and is a crime. The investigation is beginning on this. Do you still want to publicly defend these crooks of the worst kind?

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edjayhawk 4 years, 8 months ago

macabebe: I think you got the wrong guy. Bush killed over 4,000 of our own and thousands of innocent men, women and children.

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Jimo 4 years, 8 months ago

August 19, 2009 poll, Public Policy Polling:

Do you think the government should stay out of Medicare? Yes ................................................................. 39% No ................................................................... 46% Not Sure.......................................................... 15%

Just how much more uninformed can you get?

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porch_person 4 years, 8 months ago

macabebe,

If a single payer system provided improvement in outcomes at a lower cost (as it has everywhere else in the developed world), you can call it the Allman Brothers Band for all I care.

I rather like "Government hands off my Medicare". It's clever and I think it's irrelevant to ask if it has been put up on a sign prior to appearing in your post. I'm sure that phrase soon will be on a sign or bumper sticker. It encapsulates the ignorance of some of the opposition to health care reform.

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macabebe 4 years, 8 months ago

Jimo:

Obama himself has acknowledged that his plan is a first step towards a single-payer system, which he said he strongly supports. That socialized medicine.

Can you share a ink to an actual “Government hands off my Medicare” sign? I doubt that they exist. I suspect that reports of such signs are has credible as the bogus "kill him" shouts during Palin campaign appearnces.

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Jimo 4 years, 8 months ago

macabebe - I don't know where to even start. I'll just say there's about 3 words of truth in your entire post. Some statements are wholly lies. Who do you think is swallowing all that?

Confusing "Obamacare" (whatever that is a code word for in your mind) with socialized medicine just demonstrates that you understand neither the plan(s) in Congress nor how Medicare works. Pure ignorance - or more likely, hope that readers are ignorant enough to believe you (hence, the wacky "Government hands off my Medicare" signs).

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Roland Gunslinger 4 years, 8 months ago

macabebe (Anonymous) says… Do you really believe the threat claims? I don't. We have seen no evidence regarding the alleged threats. Why Moore and not other Democrats?


How do you see a phone conversation?

Other threats against Dems:

NC Rep Brad Miller http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6950802

WA rep Brian Baird http://www.theolympian.com/672/story/934050.html?storylink=omni_popular

It seems Moore isn't alone in getting threatened. But don't let such trivial things such as facts get in the way of your delusionment.

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notajayhawk 4 years, 8 months ago

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

"Yes, we all know how evil it is to hope for, much less work for, communist ideas like “peace” and “justice.” "

Now tell us, Herr Klowne, how the Obama health plan brings about either of those.


CAclarks (Anonymous) says…

"Note that the Kansas legislature was smart enough to prohibit Blue Cross from going public in Kansas."

Actually, if I remember correctly, current HHS secretary - former governor - former insurance commissioner Sebelius' objection to the BCBS buyout had more to do with a reduction in reserves.


Jimo (Anonymous) says…

"I've long wondered how sane people could believe those who spew forth outrageous, over the top, easily punctured lies are credible sources of fact "

Yes, I too have wondered how so many gullible morons can believe what the president and Democratic-controlled congress are trying to spoon feed them.

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macabebe 4 years, 8 months ago

Jimo:

"macabebe - I'm relieved to hear the screamers are getting screamed out. This is the Dennis Moore though who has received threats and can't safely meet in large public forums without a careful security screening, right?"

Do you really believe the threat claims? I don't. We have seen no evidence regarding the alleged threats. Why Moore and not other Democrats?

"Unfortunately, comments from some of the most “moderate” of Republicans in recent days seem to reveal that no concession by Obama would be sufficient to convince them to vote for any bill on the table."

We'll see. Thus far, it's been my way of the highway with Obama. Obviously, he'll have to make some concessions to get anything passed on health care.

"The lure of defeating Obama and thereby “winning” is too attractive for those who learned their craft at the feet of the “genius” Karl Rove (all tactics, no strategy)."

I think the protection of freedom is a worthwhile strategy. And let's not forget the lies that Obama told to get elected (e.g., no middle-class tax increase, would accept public financing for his campaign, etc.)

"In happier news, the GOP seems to have abandoned a 50 year fight to demolish Medicare, a/k/a real socialized medicine!"

That's funny. The LCP&J folks today were holding signs that read "Medicare for Everyone," yet had a problem with ObamaCare being characterized as socialized medicine.

"Now if they can just be convinced that Americans out of uniform deserve just as good government run health care as those in uniform!"

That's funny. Just a few years ago you liberals were complaining about the care those in uniform were receiving at Walter Reed.

With the current liberal crackup, I'd place odds on the GOP doing quite well in November 2010.

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Jimo 4 years, 8 months ago

macabebe - I'm relieved to hear the screamers are getting screamed out. This is the Dennis Moore though who has received threats and can't safely meet in large public forums without a careful security screening, right?

Demonstrations probably are the worst forum to discuss a complex topic rationally even if all the participants are there in good faith. Unfortunately, comments from some of the most "moderate" of Republicans in recent days seem to reveal that no concession by Obama would be sufficient to convince them to vote for any bill on the table. The lure of defeating Obama and thereby "winning" is too attractive for those who learned their craft at the feet of the "genius" Karl Rove (all tactics, no strategy).

In happier news, the GOP seems to have abandoned a 50 year fight to demolish Medicare, a/k/a real socialized medicine! Now if they can just be convinced that Americans out of uniform deserve just as good government run health care as those in uniform! That's when, 2059, assuming the GOP survives another election cycle?

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Stu Clark 4 years, 8 months ago

Regardless of all the shouting here, it's clear to me that the current for-profit health insurance system sucks. Single payer, public option, co-ops or non-profits OK. Note that the Kansas legislature was smart enough to prohibit Blue Cross from going public in Kansas. California let it happen and my insurance costs have increased about 10% per year ever since.

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macabebe 4 years, 8 months ago

Jimo:

"Too bad that when the country needed cool-headed, factual moderation of the Obama health plan all we could get was a retarded, diarrhea-mouthed Palin and certifiably insane screamers speaking in tongues...."

I just came from the demonstration in front of Dennis Moore's office in Lawrence. There were a few screamers, but they were all on the LCP&J side, especially a heavy-set guy on a bike who kept yelling insults across the street at those of us opposed to ObamaCare. Jo Anderson even came over from the LCP&J side to thank us for being respectful.

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puddleglum 4 years, 8 months ago

nazi president gwbush....should read Pol pot wannabe president george W. bush

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Robert Kiefer 4 years, 8 months ago

devobrun well said but please take autism off your list.

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Jimo 4 years, 8 months ago

I've long wondered how sane people could believe those who spew forth outrageous, over the top, easily punctured lies are credible sources of fact .... and then I remembered the LJW comment boards and the circus performers who entertain here so often to carry the water of one wingnut after another, each more batty than the last.

Too bad that when the country needed cool-headed, factual moderation of the Obama health plan all we could get was a retarded, diarrhea-mouthed Palin and certifiably insane screamers speaking in tongues about taking back the Constitution, some sort of Federal Reserve / swine flu inoculation / X-files conspiracy, wetbacks sent back with bullets in their head, and how socialistic foreigners (roughly 96% of the people on the earth) regularly kill off those of little value to society -- or something like that. It's hard to make sense when people scream in coded language that real Americans won't understand.

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jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

"So did your Nazi President GW Bush."

Mind numbingly dumb hyperbole.

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JohnBrown 4 years, 8 months ago

I'd like Todd Tihart to answer the question: "Have you ever met Doug Coe of The Family?

His single, oft repeated answer about The Family connections seems to be a bit of evasive word-smithing to me.

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macabebe 4 years, 8 months ago

edjayhawk:

"So did your Nazi President GW Bush."

You're obviously confused. Bush never served as president during the 20th century. He liberated 50 million people in the 21st century, which is far different from murdering 100 million.

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75x55 4 years, 8 months ago

macabee - excellent ID on the local 'grassroots' functionaries. That org has been since the days when they were supported by the Soviets through the various IWW fronts.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 8 months ago

Look, Bush is gone, now the Dems have to constantly beat up on Palin or Rush or Michael Steele or Hannity or O'Reilly. When will Dems learn? It's too late I believe for Dems to straighten out their messes. America is on to them.

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edjayhawk 4 years, 8 months ago

So did your Nazi President GW Bush.

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parrotuya 4 years, 8 months ago

Your conserva-hards are having your saccharin moment right now. It's all fake and you know it. Just wait until you lose your health insurance and there is no one around to help you. How about this: got cancer?

just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and suck it up!

take personal responsibility!

enjoy your individual liberty!

DOWn, baby, DOWn!

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macabebe 4 years, 8 months ago

bozo:

You can't be that naive. Just because a group has "peace" and "justice" in their name does not mean that is what they actually believe in. The communist murdered 100 million of their own during the 20th century in the name of "peace" and "justice."

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 8 months ago

"Fairchild and Andrea Zuercher, who wrote a guest column last week in support of ObamaCare, are activists with the far-left Lawrence Coalition for Peace & Justice."

Yes, we all know how evil it is to hope for, much less work for, communist ideas like "peace" and "justice." True patriotic Americans know that "war" and "injustice" are what truly make us great.

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macabebe 4 years, 8 months ago

snap:

The Democrats' major error was portraying those opposed to ObamaCare (whom, according to polls, represent the majority of Americans) as whiners and complainers who were spreading rumors and falsehoods. We have seen that tactic used in columns, a guest column, and LTEs during the past week. The Nazis employed the same tactic as a way to shame those opposed to their programs into comformation. See the posters in the following link and compare them to Pelosi and Hoyer's claim that protesters are "un-American": http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/steiermark.htm

Fairchild and Andrea Zuercher, who wrote a guest column last week in support of ObamaCare, are activists with the far-left Lawrence Coalition for Peace & Justice. While they claim that those opposed to ObamaCare have been organized by special interests, LCP&J will be holding a MoveOn.org-sponsored and organized "Honk In" at Dennis Moore's office at noon today. A few of us individuals opposed to ObamaCare will be there as to express our view. If you can join us, we would welcome your presense.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 8 months ago

WSJ article on why the O'dude is sinking in the polls. Here's the money quote: "Blaming a cabal of conspirators—a time-honored technique for leaders on the wrong side of public opinion—is paranoid and self-defeating. More importantly, it betrays a tin ear to the culture of most Americans—an independent, optimistic culture that is mistrustful of government nannying and intolerant of policies that mortgage our future."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204683204574354383543314054.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 8 months ago

Sheehan became the poster girl for the anti-war effort---she was the anti-war, anti-Bush icon---- and had a huge loon following and certainly many on the left who agreed wholeheartedly with what she stood for? She was used by Soro, the far-left blogo and the corrupt liberal media to damage Republicans to the fullest extent, and it worked, while we all know most Dems voted for the war and previously (post 9-11) were putting out the exact same rhetoric as Republicans. Sheehan's movement became the basis for the hysteria and hyped-up propaganda machine within the ranks of Dems, the far-left blogo and the liberal corrupt media.

Now, when we have 57% not in favor of ObamaCare, they're the problem, not ObamaCare itself?

Give me a break.

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75x55 4 years, 8 months ago

LOL!

Lawrence letter writers at their 'finest', again. Boggles the imagination to think that such folks think reasonable people with a memory don't remember exactly the same tactics used by the leftists not even a few months ago.

Sorry, leftists - ya'll overreached. Again.

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macabebe 4 years, 8 months ago

jonas:

"Ummm… . why did you ever think that? Most everybody treated her, after a few weeks, like the loon that she was."

Most reasonable people treated her that way. However, the Democrats did not. Check the record.

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macabebe 4 years, 8 months ago

The letter writer is a member of the far-left (and Soros-funded) Lawrence Coalition for Peace & Justice. Their stock and trade is dishonest tactics, especially when it came to the Iraq War..

How dare the protesters voice their concerns. Why, they're merely reading actual passages from the actual House bill. Meanwhile, the true liars are on the left (including Obama). Here's just one example (Note that Fairchild failed to cite even a single example of GOP politicians lying--he merely asserted that they lied):

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/08/024294.php

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 8 months ago

Wow, wow, wow!!! Let me get this straight. The Democrats have full control including a filibuster proof senate and they still need to blame Republicans for their state of disarray? Please god spare me. This morning the WA Post is comparing Palin to McCarthey. Unf'ingbelievable. And now going to town hall meetings in which congresspersons are essentially soliciting responses from their constituents and those constituents voicing their opposing views is now "unpatriotic" when during W's years, all that hysteria and protest was "patriotic"? And another thing, what about Obama's illegal mass email list that is poof, gone? A. Where did he get the list and, B. That list under law is supposed to be retained.

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cowboy 4 years, 8 months ago

Anyone have a problem with just eliminating the House of Representatives ? What a bunch of scalawags. You listen to them and just have to think , How stupid do you think we are ?

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devobrun 4 years, 8 months ago

"A price has to be paid. Lies, fear-mongering and pretended outrage against...."

Fill in the blank:

1) Paul says health-care. 2) Global Warming (CO2)) 3) obesity 4) H1N1 5) mercury in vaccines 6) video game addiction 7) alar 8) saccharine 9) autism 10) asbestos

Oh, heck, I could go on and on.
Generate a scare. Hype it out of proportion. Sell advertising. Get government money to fund research. Milk the scare for money and political power as far as it can go. Never really convince everybody of the problem.
Create arguments that degenerate into childishness. Become outraged that there is misinformation out there. Ultimately do nothing and the scare changes its nature or just fades away.

Don't worry Paul, this too shall pass.

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kansastruthteller 4 years, 8 months ago

Sure blame the Republicans, but the truth is it is the Democrats who also do not support this bill otherwise with a Democrat controlled Congress they would pass it. So maybe what you consider lies are not really lies, but the truth.

Blaming just the Republicans for the bill's failing is a bald-face lie. What is the price you have to pay for being caught lying?

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BigPrune 4 years, 8 months ago

"Dishonest tactics of the liberal left" please read LTE below

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jonas_opines 4 years, 8 months ago

"And I thought that people like Cindy Sheehan sitting on W's lawn represented the majority of Americans."

Ummm. . . . why did you ever think that? Most everybody treated her, after a few weeks, like the loon that she was.

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RoeDapple 4 years, 8 months ago

Robert Carlyle Byrd (born November 20, 1917) is the senior United States Senator from West Virginia. When I get coverage equivalent to his then we can talk

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jaywalker 4 years, 8 months ago

Boyoboy, Paul. That's an exceptionally poor LTE. "A price has to be paid" to open and close?!
Too many narrow-minded people. It's not nearly the same, but all these cries from the left that the opposition to the recent "healthcare reform" are ALL about unbased fear and empty rhetoric sounds alot like the "opposition" to integration back in the day.

"It can only be based on THIS......"

Yup, that's progressive alright.

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labmonkey 4 years, 8 months ago

Mr. Obama should first look at himself when complaining about misinformation.

And I thought that people like Cindy Sheehan sitting on W's lawn represented the majority of Americans. Why is it now that the protesters of Government run health care just a right-wing fringe?

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