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Archive for Thursday, April 30, 2009

Kansas House committee approves 5 percent pay cut for state employees

House committee’s plan would include KU employees

April 30, 2009, 5:32 p.m. Updated April 30, 2009, 6:35 p.m.

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— State employees would see their pay cut by 5 percent under a plan approved Thursday by Republicans on the House budget-writing committee.

House Appropriations Committee Chairman Kevin Yoder, R-Overland Park, said the proposal was needed to help resolve a $328 million state budget deficit.

“We can fire more workers or reduce the pay of all workers,” Yoder said. If enacted, the pay cut would save about $40 million.

The pay cut was part of a larger deficit reduction package offered by state Rep. Jason Watkins, R-Wichita.

Watkins also won approval of an amendment that applied the pay cut to workers at regents universities, including Kansas University.

Funds from the 5 percent cut to their salaries would stay in the regents system and be used to hold down tuition, he said.

Keeping the funds in the regents system would also prevent higher education funding from falling below the required level of state funding for the state to draw down federal stimulus funds, officials said.

Democrats on the Appropriations panel weren’t happy with the proposed pay cut to state employees.

State Rep. Bill Feuerborn of Garnett, the ranking Democrat on the committee, said lawmakers should cut appropriations to state agencies and let the managers decide how to apply the cuts.

State Rep. Tom Burroughs, D-Kansas City, said the pay cut would be especially harmful to employees nearing retirement because it would reduce their pension benefits.

“We’re asking them to take a pay cut now and a pay cut in the future,” he said.

Jane Carter, executive director of the Kansas Organization of State Employees, said the proposal would knock salaries back to 1999 levels.

“Don’t balance the budget on the backs of state employees,” Carter said. She noted that according to a recent study commissioned by the Legislature, one in three state employees is earning 25 percent less than workers at the same kind of jobs in the private market.

But Yoder said the proposal would help avoid further cuts to education and raising taxes.

The measure will now go to the full House for consideration.

Comments

Chris Ogle 5 years, 7 months ago

Lawmakers are trying to figure out how to solve a $328 million budget deficit.

Here we go again.....

KU_cynic 5 years, 7 months ago

Here it comes . . . finally. I only hope that the legislature makes the pay cut progressive, perhaps exempting salaries below a threshold and having the 5% cut kick in above another threshold -- say below $30K no cut, above $60K a 5% cut, with a sliding scale between the two.

somebodynew 5 years, 7 months ago

And once again you see that Republicans are all for the big guys. This will only affect the small working people for the State - you know the ones who haven't had pay raises for years and keep getting charged more for benefits.

Now also keep in mind the "head Fred" over there, O'Neal, is really pushing for furloughs also (which will only affect the hourly workers, not the salaried people), so on top of the 5% DECREASE in pay, we will get a furlough which will amount to ANOTHER 5% pay cut.

There are some days I just love my job - can't really say this is one of them.

But what would make me feel better is if the legislators that are pushing for all this take the same paycut as the rest of the employees. Don't think I will hold my breath till that happens though.

willie_wildcat 5 years, 7 months ago

somebodynew- You aren't the only state employee that sees this as a slap in the face to those who are already taking a hit as it.
I wonder if this means these same fools that want to cut our pay will take a 5% pay cut too? I mean it is only fair.
I think I speak for most of us when I say this is pure bullsh*t!

Godot 5 years, 7 months ago

First, annualize the income. There are many "workers" who work only a few months of the year. Then, I would say, regarding annualized wages/salary, below 60K, no cut, above 60K, shave off 10%, Above 100K, take off 15%.

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 7 months ago

This will never see the light of day. If it does, it will be vetoed.

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 7 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

flux 5 years, 7 months ago

Its only fair....everyone else is taking a hit

vega 5 years, 7 months ago

No surprise there, another Watkins/Yoder contribution to Higher Ed, in Kansas: http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/mar...

Phillbert 5 years, 7 months ago

“We can fire more workers or reduce the pay of all workers,” Yoder said.

Or they can delay the phase-in of the next round of estate tax cuts and corporate franchise cuts, but that would mean businesses and the rich would have to get by on only the $6 billion in tax cuts they've already gotten this decade.

Heaven forbid we ask anyone to sacrifice beyond the students whose schools we're cutting again (it isn't like those kids need an education) and any Kansan who relies on state government for things like, I don't know, public health services. (C'mon, when would we ever need health services? Really only if there were a pandemic or something.)

Certainly we can't ask corporations and wealthy inheritors to wait a year for the new additional tax cuts they were supposed to get - that would mean they were sacrificing too and they're above that.

Steve Jacob 5 years, 7 months ago

I am reminding everyone about when California was about to lay off a bunch of state employees, one of the biggest unions made a deal that all members would take a pay cut, and none would be laid off. Both sides seemed to be happy (enough) with it.

gccs14r 5 years, 7 months ago

California's a little different. Their Legislature doesn't screw the common man for sport. Ours does.

Phillbert 5 years, 7 months ago

I think most state employees would be less upset if they knew the pay cut would mean fewer layoffs. But they know the money saved is just going straight out the door through these new corporate and estate tax cuts that Republicans refuse to delay even for a day.

4getabouit 5 years, 7 months ago

I assume the entire legislative body is also taking a 5% cut.

Thinking_Out_Loud 5 years, 7 months ago

If I were a State employee, I don't think I'd get all bent out of shape about this. It's clearly political posturing. For it to take effect, it has to pass the full House, a Senate committee, the Full Senate, get fixed up in conference, and survive the Governor either through signature or by overriding a veto.

It's reminiscent of the earlier brinksmanship where the same House leaders threatened to withhold pay from State workers...and tax refunds from all of us. This will go the same way.

Wow21 5 years, 7 months ago

The Republican party just doesn't get it, do they. Their outdated elitist tired philosophy of cutting taxes and robbing the middle/lower class to fund their business buddies is a joke and Americans are tired of it as evidenced by the last couple of elections. Huge tax cuts got us into this mess and their genius solution is to steal from low paid state workers so they don't have to delay more tax cuts to their pals. Keep it up clowns, Kansas will be a blue state before long.

timetospeakup 5 years, 7 months ago

Editors - why can't you list the bill number in these articles so we can actually keep track of them?

Thinking_Out_Loud 5 years, 7 months ago

4getabouit, the proposed 5% cut would also apply to legislators and elected officials, university professors, and judges. More details here. http://www.kansas.com/news/breaking/story/794912.html

LogicMan 5 years, 7 months ago

"the proposed 5% cut would also apply to legislators and elected officials, university professors, and judges."

Well, if everyone else gets a 5% cut, then it is only fair that all K-12 employees also take the same cut.

That would go a long way toward balancing the budget, as would stopping the phase-outs and decoupling the tax codes.

Shardwurm 5 years, 7 months ago

"And once again you see that Republicans are all for the big guys. This will only affect the small working people for the State - you know the ones who haven't had pay raises for years and keep getting charged more for benefits."

Hrm...let's see what the article says about why they're doing this.

"Funds from the 5 percent cut to their salaries would stay in the regents system and be used to hold down tuition, he said."

Heaven forbid that we keep the tuition at universities down. Everyone knows that only the 'big guys' are paying for that. Let's go over this again: Poor people get a free ride. Rich people don't care. It's the middle class that is paying for education. Just like everything.

We're being taxed to support the universities. We're paying $1,000 for every three hour class. The cost of living to support our children at school is absurd.

Yeah...definitely the 'big guy' getting away with it again.

Godot 5 years, 7 months ago

Tanzer, why haven't you "looked" before now?

think_about_it 5 years, 7 months ago

State workers are typically state workers because they are either too lazy or too entrenched in the system to make it in the private sector. If your job is so horrible get off the teet. We, the ones that pay your salary, are all having to get by with less these days. Welcome to the real world posers.

absolutelyridiculous 5 years, 7 months ago

Will the Chancellor get a 5% pay cut as well? How about Lew Perkins?

I agree that a pay decrease across the board is what they need to do to save a few jobs but I also would challenge them to shave a few days off per year and look at benefits. The state has really good benefits and from what I hear from those that work in the state...there's very little work going on especially when you get every other day off.

I have to get to work now...have to do my part and feed the system.

middleoftheroad 5 years, 7 months ago

"State workers are typically state workers because they are either too lazy or too entrenched in the system to make it in the private sector."

Yep, you nailed it. I could work in the private sector but I choose not to because of my laziness. Oh, wait, my job doesn't EXIST in the private sector. But I appreciate the suggestion.

So while all of the "lazy" state workers are making sure students are educated, the sick are able to have medical assistance, and the disabled are able to work, enjoy the private sector. We don't have time to examine your salary and work ethic, we're too busy making sure the needs of the state's population are met.

KSChick1 5 years, 7 months ago

State employees DO NOT get every other day off-that is one of the single most ignorant statements I've ever seen posted. here's the other one: "think_about_it (Anonymous) says…

State workers are typically state workers because they are either too lazy or too entrenched in the system to make it in the private sector. If your job is so horrible get off the teet. We, the ones that pay your salary, are all having to get by with less these days. Welcome to the real world posers."

I don't recall any state employee saying their job is horrible. It's a job. All jobs have good points and bad points. State employees that work at KU pay taxes too. And the money drawn in their paychecks pays your salary too, if you work anywhere that sells anything or provides a service. I think you have state employees confused with somebody else. Just because they work for the state at KU doesn't mean they get to sit around all day and do nothing.

given2cents 5 years, 7 months ago

KSChick1 You must have state employees confused with people on welfare. The road you drove to work on is there because of state employees, the lake you play at is there because of state employees. Everyday you live a better life and are able to have a job in the private sector because of state employees.

given2cents 5 years, 7 months ago

sorry that was for middleoftheroad.. The name says it all

jrhighmom 5 years, 7 months ago

I've been a state employee for 24 years and still don't make over $32,000 per year as an admiinistrator. All of us work 8 hours or more every day, we don't get more than 2 weeks of vacation time unless we've earned it and yes, KU is open all year long, we don't close up just because there are no classes in session.

Anyone working for the state of Kansas needs to e-mail House Speaker O'Neal and give him some insight as to how this 5% cut will affect all of us making less than $50,000! You can find his e-mail at the Kansas House Representative web site. Please suggest that they take this pay-cut out of the highly-paid administrators that don't work 40 hours a week! I would also suggest they look at positions that are not necessary and cut these jobs instead of making us pay for the state of Kansas deficits.

mscynners 5 years, 7 months ago

As long as the senators/congressmen-women/govenor and all others in the higher administration of the state do the same or even take a 10% it would be alot easier to handle. (My apologies if that is already part of the plan.)

lunaticfringe 5 years, 7 months ago

No matter how they pitch it, it's not a cut, it's a tax. A specialized tax on a particular segment of society. Taking money from citizens to help fund the government is a tax, no matter what you call it.

jrhighmom 5 years, 7 months ago

Not it's not a tax, it's a permanent pay cut for Kansas State employees. The legislature always seems to think we don't need any decent pay raises and we are always targeted for any budget cuts.

think_about_it 5 years, 7 months ago

Sorry guys, your whining falls on deaf ears here.

I know several people who are or were employees at KU in positions ranging from FO to professors to the provost office. I know what goes on there and the money that is wasted everyday.

The very fact that you are on here right now reading and posting during working hours says alot. I know, I know "we aren't at work right now, you don't know anything", but far too many of you are.

The fact that there are 10 times as many state employees in Douglas County vs the largest private sector employer speaks volumes.

DMH1983 5 years, 7 months ago

think_about_it (Anonymous) says…

"State workers are typically state workers because they are either too lazy or too entrenched in the system to make it in the private sector. If your job is so horrible get off the teet. We, the ones that pay your salary, are all having to get by with less these days. Welcome to the real world posers."

Tell me thinking_out__loud, is there a "private" Corrections department job that my lazy self can apply for? Would you prefer that all State departments just close down? I would like to know what you offer our community... other than your ignorant comments!

DMH1983 5 years, 7 months ago

think_about_it (Anonymous) says…

"State workers are typically state workers because they are either too lazy or too entrenched in the system to make it in the private sector. If your job is so horrible get off the teet. We, the ones that pay your salary, are all having to get by with less these days. Welcome to the real world posers."

Tell me think_about__it, is there a "private" Corrections department job that my lazy self can apply for? Would you prefer that all State departments just close down? I would like to know what you offer our community... other than your ignorant comments!

DMH1983 5 years, 7 months ago

think_about_it (Anonymous) says…

"The very fact that you are on here right now reading and posting during working hours says alot. I know, I know “we aren't at work right now, you don't know anything”, but far too many of you are."

You are right you don't know anything. Are you at work right now...do you even work?

jrhighmom 5 years, 7 months ago

If you aren't a state employee, then it doesn't affect you, so your comments also fall on deaf ears here! Most of us work very hard at our jobs, and are paid much less than private sector jobs. Yes, there are probably some departments at KU that cut actually take job cuts, top heavy in top administrative postions that are not needed. I wish they would take a look at some of those positions.

I urge all state employees to e-mail their legislators about this pay-cut and how it will affect you personally. Put your comments where it could count for something!

Sorry Think_about-it, you really think that private sector jobs don't have employees that waste time on the job or aren't necessary? think again.

Steve Jacob 5 years, 7 months ago

"as a state employee i make about 10 k less a year already from what i could make in the private sector. looks like i and folks like me will be looking."

I hate that argument. Government jobs are safer then private sector. That means you get paid less. Just like stocks, the bigger the risk, the more the reward (or loss).

vega 5 years, 7 months ago

"Tthink-about-it: the fact that there are 10 times as many state employees in Douglas County vs the largest private sector employer speaks volumes."

You mean KU? What's wrong with you

think_about_it 5 years, 7 months ago

I don't mean all state workers DMH, but a majority. Sure corrections personnel are needed just as highway workers and educators are. What I'm saying is that we are all dealing with less these days.The sense of entitlement I hear from you guys is dumbfounding.

Did you not know that corrections was a low paying state job when you took it? Why is that my fault?

You see, it doesn't really matter what I do for a living. I do not live off of other peoples money that is taken forcibly from their paychecks. You do. Get it?

think_about_it 5 years, 7 months ago

Yes vega, I mean KU.

You think it really takes almost 10,000 people to educate an enrollment of 30,000?

What's wrong with you?

think_about_it 5 years, 7 months ago

“Bloated” is the word that comes to mind. How long before employees outnumber the students? Do you think that would be acceptable? Of course you do.

cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 7 months ago

"You think it really takes almost 10,000 people to educate an enrollment of 30,000?"

Yes.

"What's wrong with you?"

People here have first-hand knowledge of how a university functions, you have second-hand knowledge from whatever friends you pretend to have there, and whatever money they might or might not tell you is being wasted. You say that these imaginary people tell you about every cent that is being wasted at this huge university?? Fascinating. You think you'd be able to do something more with that knowledge then put your inferiority complex on display, lording over those with a sense of entitlement that you can only earn in an anonymous forum. You are so full of it that it's coming out of your ears.

jrhighmom 5 years, 7 months ago

Apparently you've never been a student at KU, because believe me, it takes a lot of work to educate and take care of the enrollment and records, admissions, orientation for these students. Not to mention the budget and accounting involved as well as public safety, health care, etc. We don't live off of other people's pay-checks, not sure where you are getting that information, that's just ignorance. The University itself doesn't pay us, the state of kansas does.

cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 7 months ago

BTW, I'm not affiliated with KU or any state employment, so don't start down your little "get of the teet" tirade with me, please.

Marcus DeMond 5 years, 7 months ago

State politicians should have to take the same pay cut they impose on their state's employees. Then I will be convinced when they say it's necessary.

gconfo 5 years, 7 months ago

Think_about_ it is a grade A douche bag who would rather stir the pot with his/her anti-govt. employee rhetoric than present any valid points.

As as been stated previously, state employees are responsible for the running and maintenance of the state's infrastructure. You complain about how this money is forcibly taken from you. I'm sure you don't complain when your highways are maintained, your children are educated, etc. etc. etc. You are paying for a valuable service. If you have issues with the cost versus return for your investment, then by all means research the budget and make informed comments to your representatives. Or, preferabl, you could find a nice little swath of land in Antarctica that hasn't been claimed and set up your abode there.

As far as state employees being lazy and unable to cut it in the "real world", that's as asinine a generalization as I've ever heard. Previous to my job at KU, I worked in the private sector for my entire life. I could regale you with stories of how the private sector is full of a$$ kissers with no talent, who play games to get ahead-as well as how talented, hardworking people are passed over because they prefer not to get their noses covered in feces. But that would be a generalization akin to yours, and would do a disservice to all of the hardworking people in the private sector.

You see, there is waste and office politics regardless of your place of employment. My advice to you is to get the chip off of your shoulder and discontinue talking out of your A$$.

think_about_it 5 years, 7 months ago

Maybe that is why you still don't make over $32,000 per year jrhighmom. Where do you think the state gets their money from? Good God girl.

cthulhu- you believe what you want about me, I'm not trying to change your mind. I don't know about "every cent wasted" but what I do know is shocking. I could give you names and first hand accounts of more than a few huge wastes, but it wouldn't change a thing.

No complex here. I sleep well in the knowledge that my living is not dependent upon forced tax money.

cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 7 months ago

" I don't know about “every cent wasted” but what I do know is shocking. I could give you names and first hand accounts of more than a few huge wastes, but it wouldn't change a thing."

Then it won't matter if you do give names and accounts. Please share your wisdom. Or, to be more blunt, put up or shut up.

katjok 5 years, 7 months ago

It's really strange that all of these people are promoting this tax on state employees, and in their mind justifying it because it doesn't affect them. Have some empathy, guys! People who actually like their jobs, maybe don't want to go into the private sector. In my part of work, if the employees found jobs elsewhere, we would lose valuable knowledge and employees and it would definitely affect the work environment.

As far as how important KU jobs go, it would be a chain reaction of bad news if there were not enough employees to provide services for students. Eventually, it would lose it's reputation for good education, research, and stop getting federal money, then maybe students would choose to go elsewhere, and also spend their money elsewhere. The whole town of Lawrence would be affected because then these students may not make a home out of Lawrence and spend their money in Lawrence. I know it sounds far-fetched but Lawrence needs state employees as much as state employees need that 5% that they might lose.

Thank you for the people who posted to send letters to our representatives, I think we all should act now!

remember_username 5 years, 7 months ago

I'd rather take a 5% pay cut than loose colleagues or infrastructure. The only problem is that when the state becomes flush in a few years we'll have to fight to get our salaries back up to par with our peers in other states.

A much better idea would be a temporary 5% increase in my payroll taxes for state workers until the hard times ease off. This allows my salary to remain at current levels for pension issues and to remain competitive with other states.

think_about_it 5 years, 7 months ago

Nice try cthulhu. My answer is no to both.

cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 7 months ago

Sad. In that case, my friends at KU (who are numerous and many, ranging from professors to workers in the provost office) are telling me that your friends are wrong, but I don't need to tell you who they are or what exactly they said, or provide any examples, just as long as you know that I'm right and you're wrong is enough for me.

(You know, lying about my societal status and connections is fun, and it makes me feel important!! I can see why you like it. Now if I could just toot my own horn a little harder I can be just like you!!)

middleoftheroad 5 years, 7 months ago

think_about_it (Anonymous) says… No complex here. I sleep well in the knowledge that my living is not dependent upon forced tax money.

I'm glad you sleep well thinking this misguided notion. The rest of us sleep well knowing we provide a service toward a greater good and contribute in a productive way to society. And for the record, no I'm not on the LJW site during work but thanks for your concern.

I don't understand how state workers and their compensation are different than anywhere else. Let's "think about this" shall we? A service needs to be provided, consumer pays for service, and in turn receives said service. A new road is needed, drivers pay for new road, and new road is provided. Elementary isn't it???

The other option is to not have state employees which would mean no public education, no public access roads, and no services for those in need (foster care, etc). Yep, I can see logic behind eliminating state workers (insert sarcasm).

Given2cents: I was a state of Kansas employee...pointing out how ridiculous another poster's comments are. I agree with you 100%

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 7 months ago

Let's play a game of "six degrees of separation".

All of you "private sector" workers out there complaining about state employees suckling from the teat of the government, consider how many degrees of separation you are from a big state or federal, tax-dollar funded project.

Any plumber who does work for a state employee: 1 degree.

Any factory worker who makes airplanes for the military: 1 degree.

Any grocery store employee who sells goods to state employees: 1 degree.

Any contractor who fixes a professor's house or works on a road or bridge or state building: 1 degree.

How many degrees separate you, "private sector employee", from the state teat?

KSChick1 5 years, 7 months ago

given2cents (Anonymous) says…

KSChick1 You must have state employees confused with people on welfare. The road you drove to work on is there because of state employees, the lake you play at is there because of state employees. Everyday you live a better life and are able to have a job in the private sector because of state employees. 1 May 2009 at 8:30 a.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink given2cents (Anonymous) says…

sorry that was for middleoftheroad.. The name says it all

It was think_about_it that made the comment, which I clearly identified in my post.

KSChick1 5 years, 7 months ago

and I hate to tell you but I'm a state employee working at KU

middleoftheroad 5 years, 7 months ago

For all of those bitter about being "forced" to provide to the state in which you use resources- there are plenty of other countries that I'm sure don't have the same taxation system our states have. Maybe try one of them...

Unfortunately, until you see the state system first-hand you'll continue to judge, inaccurately assume, and be unappreciative for the services provided to you. My sympathies that the world is that unfair to you. In the meantime, I'll continue to earn my small wage knowing that the hard work I put in helps students achieve their academic plans.

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 7 months ago

There seems to be some confusion about how state employees are evaluated, hired and fired.

First off, tax payers are not involved in the hiring, firing, evaluation and promotion of state employees.

The people that do this are the same as in the private sector, middle-level managers. These state managers have the same pressures as do private sector managers. They must evaluate their employees for productivity and competence just as in the private sector.

It is simply a myth that state employees have 100% job security. On the balance, I would say it is about equal to the private sector, which also has its sense of entitltement and job safety despite performance (e.g. CEOs of large financial institutions).

It is certainly idiotic to say that the tax payers are involved in hiring and firing of state employees, just as it is idiotic to say that consumers are involved in the hiring and firing of private sector employees.

Ceallach 5 years, 7 months ago

Many people do not realize there have already been personnel cuts enacted at KU. Vacant positions that will not be filled, as well as positions lost when programs were discontinued to meet current equired budget cuts. Many of us are now doing our position's duties as well as extra projects from unfilled/cut positions in our offices. When jobs are cut, the duties of those positions do not disappear, they are done by remaining employees.

Oh, I forgot, some posters never let their ignorance of any given subject stop them from spewing forth their vitriol against . . . well . . . against just about everything and everyone other than themselves.

vega 5 years, 7 months ago

ha,ha, the salary cut bill guy Watkins from Wichita was hiring BTK before becoming a politician: http://origin.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,148927,00.html has an amazing legislative effectivness too: http://www.statesurge.com/members/1639-jason-watkins-kansas

VERY good judgement!

MyName 5 years, 7 months ago

think_about_it:

“Bloated” is the word that comes to mind. How long before employees outnumber the students? Do you think that would be acceptable? Of course you do.

Not to interrupt you e-peen ego stroking with a little dose of a thing called "reality", but alot of those "employees" are students themselves: either undergrads doing on campus work or graduate students who teach while also getting their degrees. Yes, the State pays their paycheck, but it's not exactly the kind of waste you're trying to make it out to be.

If you actually looked at people who have full time regular jobs there, the ratio would be alot less (maybe alarmingly so). Moreover, alot of the activity that goes on at KU is involved in a little thing called "research", which is what separates a proper university from a degree mill that churns out the kind of idiots with nothing better to do than troll an internet forum.

But hey who am I to argue, you've got the cause of truth and justice and lower taxes for rich people on your side. Troll away.

imjustsaying 5 years, 7 months ago

It is sad when the government can afford to pay $3,000.00 a month in daycare cost for an illegal worker to commit identity theft using a fake name and social security number, give lazy sit at home people an increase in food stamps,(as of 04-01-2009) and pay for yet another fatherless child to a female that has two already with a nameless boyfriend, BUT wants to cut the pay of people who are already under paid. I think if all the state elected officials took a 90% pay cut it would solve the budget problem and they would be getting paid what they are worth. It is not a loss of income that is causing the state’s budget problem, it is the over spending on PC feel good programs. Fix the roads, arm the cop, keep the fire trucks running, build some jails and stop playing Robin Hood with the tax payer’s treasure chest.

vega 5 years, 7 months ago

Hey "imjustsaying" you forgot to add: close the schools to your list!

tunahelper 5 years, 7 months ago

mike oneal is still a wussy. I would love to meet him in a ring and beat the &$^# out of him. what a moron.

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