To the editor:
Contrary to the Wulfkuhles’ letter of 4/14/09, the environmental message about the meat industry is anything but “misinformation.” Here are a few reasons why:
• According to a report published by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization on 11/29/06, the livestock sector generates more greenhouse gas emissions than all types of transportation in the world combined. The senior author of the report says “Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today’s most serious environmental problems.”
• According to scientists at the Smithsonian Institute, seven football fields’ worth of land is bulldozed every minute to create more room for farmed animals and the crops that feed them.
• It takes more than 2,400 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of meat, whereas it takes 180 gallons of water to make a pound of wheat flour.
• Nearly half the world’s grains and soybeans are fed to animals to produce meat, instead of going directly to human consumption.
As our world’s population and appetite for meat spiral out of control, and we continue to kill land animals by the billions, the small local farmer simply cannot keep up with the demand. This in turn keeps environmentally destructive CAFO’s (confined animal feeding operations) on the rise.
Maybe ranching back in the “old days” didn’t have much of an environmental impact, but we’re not living in those times anymore. The most effective action a “true” environmentalist can take right now is to pass on the meat and eat lower on the food chain.
Comments
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VTHawk (anonymous) says…
The most effective action a “true” environmentalist can take right now is to pass on the meat and eat lower on the food chain.
Like liberals?
BrianR (anonymous) says…
GO MEAT!
grammaddy (anonymous) says…
That's right VThawk!! Eat a Liberal.
tigerwill13 (anonymous) says…
I got to: " According to a report published by the United Nations" and knew exactly what the gist of the letter would be...
People
Eating
Tasty
Animals....for the win
devobrun (anonymous) says…
"the livestock sector generates more greenhouse gas emissions than all types of transportation in the world combined."
As we enter a new Maunder minimum, the extra blanket will feel good.
ranger73 (anonymous) says…
I'd be willing to accept a grant to study how to make fartless cows so we don't have all those evil greenhouse gasses.
SettingTheRecordStraight (anonymous) says…
Let me cry over the "environmental impact" of ranching while I finish this delicious slice of bacon.
snap_pop_no_crackle (anonymous) says…
toot
Easy_Does_It (anonymous) says…
Ann,
It is all about green business. I have a flatulence sequestering process which includes use of empty salt caverns. The process will create millions of jobs and at the same time make our planet greener; providing all the energy we need for the remainder of our time on the planet. Plus the cows love it.
SettingTheRecordStraight (anonymous) says…
It's been a long time since I've seen a LTE so ripe for ridicule.
jafs (anonymous) says…
Interesting that no one has actually responded to the factual assertions in the article, almost all of which were supported by references to reputable sources.
It has been known since the 1970's that consumption of meat is extremely inefficient.
A vegetarian diet is better for the environment as well as one's own health.
Do a little research and think about it.
gr (anonymous) says…
Too bad Ann had to insert the global warming hype in an otherwise good letter.
Kind of taints the message, doesn't it, Ann?
NDRancher (anonymous) says…
You have most of your story wrong Ann. So just to clarify:
-According to the Environmental Protection Agency, agriculture as a WHOLE accounts for only 6% of total US greenhouse gas emissions. Transportation and electricity production are the top two.
-While some land may be bulldozed, it's because the land is useless in its current state and we are just putting it in production to help feed millions. Did you know 85% of US grazing lands are unsuitable for producing crops and grazing animals more than doubles the area that can be used to produce food. Maybe you could be a little more appreciative for the food I put on your table as a farmer/rancher.
I do not have all day to comment on your letter, but I will say this. If 1955 technology were used to produce the amount of beef we raise today, 165 million MORE acres of land would be needed. That shows you how far we have come in being able to produce beef more productively and efficiently in order to provide you with a high quality, nutrient dense food.
Also – FYI – It’s been scientifically proven that those who do not eat beef have lower cognitive skills. That’s a fact. I'm not saying you need to eat beef 24/7, but please do not hurt our industry by passing around false information. Support your local farmers and ranchers – we are everyday environmentalists putting food on your tables!
Sincerely - 22-year-old female rancher from ND
Easy_Does_It (anonymous) says…
Let's see, a big plate of soybeans vs. a steak. I'll take my chances with the steak.
The real issue is too much health. If there were not so many people living longer there would be less demand for meat. So eat more meat, get off the planet earlier, help the envoirnment.
gr (anonymous) says…
"It’s been scientifically proven that those who do not eat beef have lower cognitive skills."
Do you have a reference? I'd like to read it.
"we are everyday environmentalists putting food on your tables!"
You are right there about the meat! If people weren't buying meat, this wouldn't be an issue.
Appetite rules over intelligence! Yea!!!
NDRancher (anonymous) says…
Try this site: http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/...
You can also google (cognitive beef) and you come up with many results. If this is not suffice, I should have the scientific article later today, however they are sometimes not published on the web.
jafs (anonymous) says…
Easy,
Why not simply kill yourself right now if that's your goal?
divingdiva (anonymous) says…
"While some land may be bulldozed, it's because the land is useless in its current state and we are just putting it in production to help feed millions"
Okay ND Rancher, since when is the Amazon Rainforest "useless" land? This is the most absurd comment I've read yet. Where do you think your McDonald's hamburgers come from?
"That shows you how far we have come in being able to produce beef more productively and efficiently in order to provide you with a high quality, nutrient dense food"
Again ND Rancher, you're missing the point. CAFO's are the reason eating meat is so environmentally damaging. While you may think CAFO's are great because they feed more people, they are one of the most environmentally damaging things on this planet, not to mention the immense cruelty to the animals. So I wouldn't be too quick to pat yourself on the back for the CAFO's. They are one of man's most shameful inventions he's done to God's creatures.
Bottom line, eating meat with amount of people on this planet is NOT sustainable, You can only pack so many chickens and pigs in buildings and so many cattle in feedlots before there are huge consequences. And we are now seeing the damaging effects of cramming those animals into buildings and feedlots.
jafs (anonymous) says…
ND,
I don't want to get into a long drawn-out argument, but,...
I looked at your link - the connection with cognitive ability is iron deficiency, not meat consumption.
There are certainly other ways to make sure one's diet contains sufficient iron - for example, I take a multi-vitamin/mineral supplement which supplies 100% of my daily requirements.
I wonder why you feel the need to self-promote in this manner - are current dietary trends hurting your business?
Having been a vegetarian for about 25 years, I can attest to feeling healthier, lighter in energy, and more clear-minded than when I was eating meat.
I have a high IQ, and am a moderately successful chess player.
There are many health concerns connected to a meat-based diet that vegetarians simply don't have to worry about.
A few things that vegetarians need to pay attention to - complete protein, b-vitamins, and omega 3 fatty acids. One can obtain complete protein by combining whole grains/legumes, b-vitamins (and other vitamins/minerals) from supplements, and omega 3 from flaxseed oil.
In addition, one can feel better about not participating in the unnecessary slaughtering of animals.
Wallythewalrus (anonymous) says…
Divingdiva: Thought you might have a good arguement, until you brought up the myth of McDonalds. And if you ever get to Dodge City I think you would realize that cattle in feedlots have a lot of room. You might also notice all the environmental engineering that goes into the design of the feedlots. . Also don't worry Obama is pledging millions upon millions of dollars for a study on how to fix the smell from all the pig farms in Iowa.
So Bottom line, eat meat. Eat a steak. Eat a big ole steak
Connacht (anonymous) says…
It's too bad you have to read so far down the comments before you find people actually trying to use logic, reason, and evidence to back up their assertions. I wonder if the LJworld could start two different threads for comments. One for snide remarks and one for legitimate discussion for those of us who actually want to do more than troll someone's LTE.
Of course, it's also rare to find a LTE that actually takes the time to do a little research. Kudos to everyone involved in actually trying to intelligently discuss this issue.
xbusguy (chris Ogle) says…
I stickin to chickens.... I road hunt em.
mbw3012 (anonymous) says…
While some of seem to think that caring about food and environmental concerns are "liberal" areas, I'd like to point out that a large majority of the environmental stances taken by the government over the last century have been under Republican presidents. For example, Teddy Roosevelt was an early conservationist; Eisenhower signed the first clean air act; the EPA was created under Nixon and he also signed the clean water and endangered species acts.
Secondly, regarding the idea that not eating meat makes one less intelligent, how, then, do you explain such vegetarians as Leonardo da Vinci, Albert Einstein, and Sir Issac Newton among many, many others?
foodboy (anonymous) says…
I realize this may be a hard concept for most posters on this list, but one might consider moderation. Perhaps instead of a 16oz. T-bone, try strir fried beef and vegetables, eat vegetarian one day/week, use meat as a seasoning rather that the main part of your meal. You can still enjoy the taste of meat, but do your heart and the planet a favor. Life doesn't have to be a black or white, either or situation.
jumpin_catfish (anonymous) says…
Coming to a country near you: Being told by big brother what to eat, say, hear, think, wear, work, live and worship. If I missed anything then just include that on the list.
Music_Girl (anonymous) says…
The key to a healthy life is moderation. (Go foodboy for already stating that!) I seriously doubt cattle farts are the major issue. How about all the emissions from cars and power plants? Want to "go green"...ride a bike and turn off the computer!
Mixolydian (anonymous) says…
We would all do well to avoid Wendy McHardies.
Two words:
Soylent green.
thelonious (anonymous) says…
Ann, don't let the buffoonery of a majority of these posts discourage you. We desperately need the efforts of groups like the Lawrence Humane Society and PETA to educate people, at least the ones who are willing and able to be educated.
My wife is vegetarian and I stick to a vegetarian diet plus fish and seafood. My wife is more concerned about the ethics of meat comsumption, while my concern is more about eating a healthy diet, although I am also concerned about the environmental impact of overconsumption of red meat and poultry.
While it may be difficult (if these posts are any indication, it would be) to totally stop the raising and comsumption of beef, pork, poultry, etc., there are a few points that I think most people (not some of these posters, but consider the source) would agree are true.
1) We simply eat too much meat, with negative consequences for our environment, our health, and on the way that the animals raised for food have to be raised (i.e., confinement lots or buildings rather than free-range pastures, etc).
2) With lower meat consumption, more grains would be available to feed hungry people around the world.
3) A vegetarian or near-vegetarian diet is much healthier than a diet that relies heavily on red meat and poultry.
Meat was traditionally a luxury, used either to flavor a dish (think vegetable stew with a little beef thrown in) or as a small portion of a diet based mainly on vegetables and grain. It is only in recent times that meat has become the focal point of our meals and consumption has increased to the degree it has. If everyone simply limited themselves to one serving of meat or poultry per day, rather than the three that most do now, that alone would have a huge impact, without turning anyone into a vegetarian.
I recommend the book "Beyond Beef" by Jeremy Rifkin for anyone who wants to learn more.
NDRancher (anonymous) says…
I never said the Amazon Rainforest is useless. I said there is some land that is useless. Have you ever been to ND and seen some of the land and topography (along with many other states that raise cattle)? I have and I know some of it is good for only one thing. Raising cattle.
Cattle help to reduce invasive plant species, reduce erosion, reduce the risk of wildfires by decreasing the amount of flammable material on the land, and they convert forages that humans cannot consume into a nutrient dense food for those of us who enjoy beef.
Wallythewalrus already answered the feedlot/CAFO comment. Engineers are on staff to meet state and federal regulations when building feedlots. And I don't know where the cruelty comes into play? Once again, there are regulations set that producers must follow so animals are treated humanely and kept comfortable. I'm guessing you've seen videos that show inhumane animal treatment, but have you seen any showing the care ranchers provide for their animals? I'm guessing not because they are rarely shown by the media. It's usually negative news that is shown.
Not sure where you're from or if you've ever experienced a blizzard or other natural disaster. But if you have you know how unpleasant and extreme they can be. Our whole family was up during the night this winter during several blizzards bringing new-born calves into our house because it was too cold for them to survive outside. Ranchers are currently saving animals because of flooding in our state. If you think cruelty towards animals is the norm in agriculture, think again because if we did not care about the animals we would not be in the business. Have you ever given mouth to mouth to a new born calf that is not breathing? Gross huh? You bet it is, but we saved her. Again, if we cared less about our animals, we wouldn't have done that for them. It's true, I can't speak for every rancher on here, but we care at our place and I hope you see that.
I'm not on here to argue - I just want people to understand our way of life and that on our ranch we truly care for the environment and the animals we raise.
Music_Girl (anonymous) says…
thelonious - in reference to point 1). We eat too much in general. Look at America's obesity issues. We simply eat too much because it is available and self control went out the window when "self esteem" starting being overly pushed.
Music_Girl (anonymous) says…
NDRancher - as a farmer's daughter I understand where you are coming from. I've given mouth to mouth to a new born calf that took "too long" to be born and we have saved several calves that way. We have pulled cows out of frozen ponds (cause they are kinda dumb haha) and I've ripped more pants on barbed wire fences in one summer than in all other activities in my whole life put together. There are often a lot of ridiculous and discouraging comments on here (crack it up to freedom of speech and ignore most of them). I know there are bad farmers and bad ranchers out there and they are often the ones that set the "norm" but it's not true. I know many farmers who have brought animals into their homes during bad weather and unlike most people, we can't just hide in our cozy houses in snow storms and frigid temps. Don't let the ignorance of some of those on this site get you down.
Kryptenx (anonymous) says…
Let's eat the vegans. I'm afraid they may taste bad though.
Kryptenx (anonymous) says…
I also fail to see how land is "bulldozed" for pasture. I guess using barren land somehow destroys things now? Divingdiva is completely absurd. The Amazon is not being destroyed to make way for cows, it's being destroyed for the paper/wood. Your argument is a massive fail, and vegetables taste like ass.
tin (anonymous) says…
NDRancher, I suggest you ignore the loons on here. I support you, my family and I appreciate your hard work in producing quality food for our consumption.
Next thing the liberals will want is all crops grown and harvested without the use of tractors & fossil fueled equipment.
Easy_Does_It (anonymous) says…
Jafs, So angry, you must be hungry.
Fugu (anonymous) says…
Kryptenx,
Cattle ranching drives the majority of amazon clearing. Nice try.
Satirical (anonymous) says…
I completely agree with the author of this article. All the liberals should stop eating land animals, thus lowering the costs for the rest of us.
Question: Is it green to eat fish?
BigPrune (anonymous) says…
My meat is free.
divingdiva (anonymous) says…
ND Rancher, it sounds like perhaps you do care for your cattle while they are alive. What I'm referring to however, are CAFOs. There is immense cruelty in these disgusting prisons. HBO just aired a documentary on a pig farmer and his farm. Of course, they proclaimed to reporters that they "loved" their animals and took good care of them. Funny, they couldn't say this once the undercover footage came out. All farmers will claim they "love" and care for their animals as they are cutting out their testicles with no anesthesia, cutting off their tails, again, with no anesthesia, sticking long rods into the female dairy cows to artificially impregnate them (these animals can't even mate normally now), and the list goes on.
Again, I know there are farmers out there who do try to give their farm animals somewhat of a normal life before they are slaughtered. But again, the small mom & pop farmer cannot feed the world! That is the problem! There are way too many people on the planet to feed! No one seems to get that. Everyone thinks that since there are a few local farmers selling their animals to local grocery stores that they can now call their meat "humane" and "green". Well, that is just a very tiny fraction of the meat needed to feed the world. That is where the CAFOs come in. And sorry folks, but genetically rigging a cow so it doesn't fart is so ridiculous, I don't even know what to say. Good lord, where does manipulating Mother Natures' creatures all to suit man's want for flesh end? You can only mess with Mother Nature for so long before she comes back to bite you in the butt!
It's just like pumping all these factory farmed animals with antibiotics so they can try to survive in these disgusting environments -- now more and more people are antibiotic-resisent from eating flesh and mammary secretions loaded with antibiotics.
Bottom line, it doesn't matter how much you "care" for your cows. They all still end up in a slaughterhouse with a knife in their throat and their blood spilling onto the floor. All completely unnecessary of course. No animal needs to die in this day and age to feed a human. That's the tragedy of it all. We torture animals, damage the environment and make ourselves fatter and more unhealthy, all in the name of money, power and habit.
Music_Girl (anonymous) says…
divingdiva - I had a lot to say to you but then I recalled what a wise woman once told me: "Do not waste your time reasoning with a brick wall".
HW (anonymous) says…
Incisors, molars and canines. What does that make us? Omnivores. The end.
gr (anonymous) says…
"I looked at your link - the connection with cognitive ability is iron deficiency, not meat consumption."
Thanks Jafs, so I wouldn't have to point that out.
ND, please distinguish between nutrition and meat. While meat may have nutrition, if it is available from other sources, you cannot say meat is necessary for the benefits of nutrition. It's a similar faulty logic global warmists and alcoholics use.
I'm waiting for a link to relevant research.
NDRancher (anonymous) says…
Is the HBO documentary where you got your facts on CAFO's? Or are you somehow involved in agriculture directly (besides the fact that cattle fats and proteins are in many of your household products that I'm sure you use such as creams/lotions, detergents, glue, insulation, linoleum, soaps, textiles, etc.)? Just curious where you get your "facts" and if you're really as anti-animal agriculture as I think?
You bet it's true they end-up in a slaughterhouse, but I guess it's too much to ask that we care for them while they're alive....
Did you know one serving of beef from a steer implanted with a growth promotant has neary 20 times less estrogen than the level permitted by FDA? The difference in levels of estrogen found in beef from cattle raised with or without growth promotants is miniscule. Growth promotants have been used for over 50 years without any negative affect on human health. The average man or woman produces 35,000 times more hormones on a daily basis that could be present in beef or any other food? We can see your hormones shining through today...
Multiple studies have reviewed whether antibiotic use in cattle production causes an increased risk to consumers by developing antibiotic-resistant foodborne or other pathogens, and NONE have found a connection. (Journal of Food Production, July 2004; Journal of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy, 2003.)
The documentary was exactly what I was talking about when I said people always see the negative impacts and welfare of animals on television.
I highly doubt any of this is phasing you, but I hope there are some that are learning some new facts regarding the cattle industry.
I'm glad a few of you understand!
WHY (anonymous) says…
Incisors, molars and canines. What does that make us? Omnivores. The end.
heart attacks, strokes, obesity. What does that make us??
CNA_Resident (anonymous) says…
NDRancher, who are ~you~ to determine what is and isn't "useless land?" I think we can ~both~ agree that YOU have a vested interest in making the "meat is great" industrial counter-argument here, right? After all, your industry supports lots of other ones – including the K-State School of Veterinary Medicine right here in Kansas, and the National Meat Packaging industry, and the federal Department of Agriculture, along with grocery stores and all sorts of restaurants… right? The so-called improved "productivity" and efficiency you tout comes at a ~huge~ environmental cost, young lady, which somehow doesn't seem to be as important to you as it is to many others. And you deliberately seek to dismiss this environmental impact as non-consequential and diminutive in comparison to the human currency invested in the consumption of meat! What you do (you believe) serves the greater good, right?
WRONG!
First off, the antibiotics that have to be used to keep livestock from transmitting pathogens into the human food chain has made it ~that~ more difficult to treat humans as a whole in this country. It's what our national bio-security is all about, isn't it? Second, is the fact that your industry attempts to promote an ~economic~ argument over an ~environmental~ one, is comparing a tangible to an intangible. Third is the attitude, young missy. I, for one, am not going to be told to be "grateful" for what your industry has done (or not done). Fourth, is the fact that water is becoming a critical element for the great plains, since it's being depleted at rates that are simply and utterly unsustainable. The Ogallala Aquifer is more than half gone, and our part of Kansas is now designated Zone 6!
You know perfectly well that this industry is in trouble precisely because of it's metamorphosis into a mega-industrial complex that has spread to every continent on the planet. Do you calculate the costs imposed on societies which have had to endure epidemics, closing down whole countries? Let's see: Avian bird flu, hoof-in-mouth disease, mad cow disease …. How many pairs of ears do you need to listen to the mounting litany of problems in the global livestock trade? And shall we attempt a discussion on genetically altered livestock??!!
No, young lady, you are ~not~ in a position to defend, let alone define, the stakes involved here.
gphawk89 (anonymous) says…
"seven football fields’ worth of land is bulldozed every minute to create more room for farmed animals and the crops that feed them"
So it would take about 100 years to use up an area the size of Kansas. How much land is bulldozed every minute to create more room for factories, strip malls, and subdivisions?
"it takes more than 2,400 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of meat"
That's actually a good thing. We'll have plenty of extra water along our coastlines to use up after the greenhouse gasses from cow farts melt the polar ice caps.
Again, someone needs to come up with a device that attaches to a cow's butt, captures the farts, and converts the methane into electricity. You'd need some really long extension cords though, and keeping them untangled would be problematic. Or maybe the device would have a battery that would store the energy - the cows would plug their butts into the grid each night to discharge.
HW (anonymous) says…
WHY (Anonymous) says…
Incisors, molars and canines. What does that make us? Omnivores. The end.
heart attacks, strokes, obesity. What does that make us??
Most likely, gluttons, and possibly, dead. What is the point? It is like the discussion of the cause of cognitive defficiencies above. Iron deficiencies most likely cause it. Meat is just one place you can get iron. Vegitarians can have heart attacks, strokes and be obese also. Those things can be caused by many things, meat being a possible contributor, depending on a person's personal habits.
love2eat (anonymous) says…
famous people who did not eat beef and whose cognitive skills were probably affected:
Albert Einstein
Pythagoras
Leonardo Da Vinci
Albert Schweitzer
Louisa May Alcott
Paul McCartney
George Bernard Shaw
Isaac Beshevis Singer
Henry Heimlich
Nikola Tessla
In fact it wasn't just beef these poeple passed on -- it was MEAT of any kind -- all of them are well known as famous vegetarians.
But perhaps an even more compelling rebuttle to ND Rancher's assertion that not eating meat negatively impacts cognitive skills, is to just read back through all the posts above -- it is pretty obvious which posters are diehard meat eaters. Compare the posting of the two groups and how each attempts to make their points. Can their statements be factually supported? It is pretty clear which group has the deficiency in cognitive skills!
However I will grant you that it is possible that eating meat has not caused the above meat eater's to have lower intelligence -- it may simply be (as this study below suggests) that those who are more intelligent as children have an increased chance of becoming vegetarian by adulthood.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17...
divingdiva (anonymous) says…
ND Rancher, if you could either post a link or some kind of information from the American Heart Assn., the American Cancer Society or any other national health organization that specifically states that meat is healthy and should be consumed frequently, then I won't make another peep. Unfortunately though, you will not find it. If you want to come at meat from a health standpoint, you will lose every time. It is NOT healthy. And the whole "you gotta get protein from meat" thing is an absolute myth. You can get protein from many other sources. So the whole meat is necessary for good health is bogus.
From an environmental standpoint, you still have not addressed what I have said previously about CAFOs being environmentally destructive. Do you agree with this or not? If so, then you should not be promoting meat for consumption because most of the meat people eat comes from factory farms. That is reality!
And as far as the cruelty to the animals involved in factory farming, well, there is nothing you can say to justify it. The people involved in factory farming are just absolutely morally bankrupt as far as I'm concerned. And the footage that does happen to make it on TV (like the HBO documentary) is rare. Most new stations won't even air the footage because it's so horrific. And the treatment of these animals in factory farms is all the same. Whenever money is the sole consideration, the animals will always suffer.
Wallythewalrus (anonymous) says…
Soy kills! Eat meat, eat meat, eat a steak, eat a big ole stake. aka Rev. Horton Heat. And yes I used to milk a cow. Loved that thick sweet cream. About an 2 inches thick on the top of a gallon jug closed tightly with wax paper. Yummy in my tummy. And I recall the day my grand dad put that rifle up to the head of that big ole calf. Then hung it up by the front end loader on the tractor and slit its throat. Then after some skinning, we hauled it down to the basement and took the band saw to it. Grandma made lye soap with the fat. Like a pig there aint much from a cow you cant use.
NDRancher (anonymous) says…
Here are some articles to read if you feel like locating them:
Sandstead HH, Penland JG, Alcock NW, Dayal HH, Chen XC, Li JS, Zhao F, Yang JJ. Effects of repletion with zinc and other micronutrients on neuropsychological performance and growth of Chinese children. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1998; 68(2 Suppl):470S-475S.
Shafir T, Angulo-Barroso R, Calatroni A, Jimenez E, Lozoff B. Effects of iron deficiency in infancy on patterns of motor development over time. Human Movement Science. 2006.
Morris MS, Jacques PF, Rosenberg IH, Selhub J. Folate and vitamin B12 status in relation to anemia, macrocytosis, and cognitive impairment in older Americans in the age of folic acid fortification. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 2007; 85(1):193-200.
Yes, other foods provide the same nutrients as beef but they do not come close in the amount provided. Read on: http://www.teachfree.org/uDocs/beef_n...
CAFO's: The National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System program regulates the discharge of pollutants from CAFO's. CAFO's must comply with the EPA Clean Water Act and must take appropriate actions to manage manure in order to protect the nation's water quality. All large CAFO's are required to apply for a permit, submit an annual report and develop and follow a plan for handling manure and wastewater. I believe someone already told you that most CAFO's have dedicated an engineer who helps to ensure the operation is in compliance with strict government regulations.
The treatment of animals in factory farms is not "all the same" and please do not tell me (CNA) I'm not in a position to defend when it's my lifestyle and livelihood I'm standing up for. I let you share your comments, and I will share mine...
I'll let you spend your own time looking up articles that show groups such as you listed that support beef. Just google it and you will see plenty of articles and recipes that show up with none other than beef being used.
Just go to www.beeffrompasturetoplate.org if you have more questions. I've spent enough of my own time gathering facts for you.
jafs (anonymous) says…
ND,
Again, you point to studies showing vitamin/mineral deficiencies.
There's no question that those will impact one's health negatively.
However, it's perfectly possible to get all of one's necessary nutrients from other sources, including supplements.
Easy - :-)
I was just saying why drag out the process if your ultimate goal is to expire earlier? I'm not mad at you in the least.
CNA_Resident (anonymous) says…
You didn't ~let~ me do anything, NDR. And while we're at it, child, try a rebuttal of the facts I laid out for you ( on my time). You proved at least one point in my earlier post: this is all about you. Your livelihood; Your lifestyle, and to ~hell~ with anything that interferes with it. Gah-Row Up and look at the livestock producers just like you who can think only of themselves, at the expense of a planet that cannot sustain this gross production excess.
Pywacket (anonymous) says…
So many absurd statements are being thrown around, on both sides of this fence. I would like to point out that it's extremely unlikely that ANY of us--and most especially US beef producers--approve of rainforests being bulldozed to raise cattle. So that's a rather stupid shot to take at people who are making their livelihood raising beef on US shores.
Beyond that, a lot of people (both sides) need to stop looking at every issue as black and white, when the reality is often many shades of grey. Do we all need to become vegans? Probably not. Should we meat eaters make a stronger effort to buy US-grown, grass-fed beef that has not been saturated with hormones? Absolutely. Boycott meat that was produced in former rainforest areas, and that production will no longer be profitable to the clear-cutters.
I'm omnivorous. I eat a lot of fruits and veggies but I also love fish, chicken, pork, wild game, and beef. I have not patronized a McDonald's since about 1976. Seriously.
I could do a better job as far as buying only local meat, and I am working on that.
If you stand at the extreme end of a continuum and draw a belligerent line in the sand, you're very unlikely to influence anyone. Both sides could stand to lighten up a little.
And the predictable "liberals!" bleating is so lame... I am pro-choice, pro-Obama, pro-gay rights, and "liberal" by many other measures of the term and I also love a nice ultra-rare slab of ribeye alongside my salad. Most people, in fact, do NOT fit neatly into a box with a slick label attached.
cowboy (anonymous) says…
Pretty obvious most posters on this topic have never stepped foot on a cattle ranch / farm.
first the farts - my cattle smell alot better than the covey's of bums I smell down on Mass St .
Second - nutrition - many complain about the CAFO's , same folks are too damn lazy to go seek fresh food and as the majority of all of our foods in the markets are highly processed and its getting weirder every year. Take the time to purchase natural raised beef , or other meats and you'll be the beneficiary of great taste , tenderness , no additives , and increased omega counts. takes some effort though , you have to buy in quantity , plan ahead , you know like the olden days.
Third - Farmers- The above posters directing anger at farmers are pretty ill advised , no your effing stupid. OK be nice again , Most high volume growers send their calves off to professional finishers , yeah these are the Cargills of the world . Drive thru the panhandle of Okla / Texas and you'll see them. I don't buy store meat and haven't for the last ten years. We raise beef for our family and friends , it saves us money , keeps me out of trouble , and give our family a great product.
Note: Most cattle raisers are the gentlest folks you'll find , you have to be quiet and gentle around cattle to handle them effortlessly.
And yes , you have to kick them in the ass once in awhile but not so much.
Water - Most ranchers have ponds and surprise we don't fill them with city water. The margin on cattle is so small that you can't afford those kind of costs.
Lastly how can you eat a fish and not beef. Fish are so full of mercury and other pollution I would not eat it at all. and how can you send a cow off to butcher. Well , after you have spent countless hours taking care of them raising them up to 15-16 months old , adolescence , they have broken down fences at 2 in the morning in a snow storm , knocked you into the feed trough a few times , stepped on your foot , trashed every piece of clothing you own , knocked the mirrors off your pickup trying to look at themselves , let me tell ya , it ain't hard !
Have a good one !
altarego (anonymous) says…
I don't get the cognitive beef thing. I love meat and eat a lot of it, but I'm still pretty stupid.
I can't read through the whole thing, but to the ranchers and cowboys on here, thank you very much.
beatrice (anonymous) says…
Well stated Pywacket. You pretty much nailed it, and I'm quite sure everything you wrote will be completely ignored.
none2 (anonymous) says…
I think it is very commendable if someone can sustain themselves as a vegitarian or vegan. I don't like killing animals. I'm not starving for need to deat dead animal.
However, from my own experiences, it was very difficult to be healthy when I was primarily vegetarian. My life style was primarily low-fat, high carbs, and while I would eat meat if it was in food at the restaurant, I seldom if ever cooked it at home. The problem is that there were too many carbs in many of the foods I loved: grains -- such as rice; pastas; breads (even if multi grain); deserts (lots of sugars); fruits/dried fruits/fruit juices (high sugars). Sure you can eat greens and greenbeans, but for the most part it is hard to keep carbs down.
The only time I was healthy was when I went the other extreme and went big time on meats, and cut the carbs from fruits and vegetables. It was totally unnatural for me as even as a kid, I never was much for a slab of meat. I wanted a little in a casarole, or inside a sandwish, but not by itself. Well, unfortunately, my body wasn't designed for that. However, I could not maintain the low carb diet. I missed my fruits, my cereals, my sugars. However, it did expose me to the fact that the vegeterian way is a very difficult lifestyle. To give you an idea of fruits high in sugars: Plums, Oranges, Kiwi, Pears, Pineapples, Cherries, grapes, mangoes, bannanas, all dried fruits. Vegetables to avoid include potatoes, beets, corn, peas. I wish I could have stuck to my high-carb, low meat diet, but other than my tastebuds, every bone in my body was unhappy with that kind of diet.
DougCounty (anonymous) says…
Man, and it's well past the Full Moon--no excuses for all the lunacy on this list. I agree beatrice; Pywacket hit the nail on the head, and Cowboy did a jovial good job of trying to bring a little common sense to the discussion as well. I suggest that everyone go hug anyone who raises local beef for local consumption, and then go hug the local producer who raises local veggies, too. We need 'em both, we need the wild critters, too, and we need a whole lot less yellin' to hear ourselves.
notajayhawk (anonymous) says…
jafs (Anonymous) says…
"Again, you point to studies showing vitamin/mineral deficiencies..."
Try these.
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/f...
http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article...
"However, it's perfectly possible to get all of one's necessary nutrients from other sources, including supplements."
Maybe it makes more sense to some people to get the nutrients from the foods they eat rather than having to take supplements. Yes, I could probably get all my nutrients from eating several dozen plant products and supplementing them with artificially manufactured and packaged pills containing the additional chemical compounds my body needs - or I could just have a steak.
It's not that the nutrients in question are solely available in red meat. But red meat is a better source in terms of the amounts, the combination, and the bioavailability of many of those necessary nutrients.
Incidentally, those posters who use famous vegetarians such as Einstein as proof that red meat does not help cognition are using a completely false argument - we have no way of knowing how much more intelligent Einstein may have been if he'd eaten meat.
commuter (anonymous) says…
This thread is silly. Why do people think they need to tell everyone what to eat? If you don't like the way animals are being treated before they will be slaughtered, then fgo out and but them!!!
By the way, I think way too many people here in Lawrence do not pay enough taxes. Increase the taxes on lawn mower operators, KU teachers, KU Admins, USD497 admin, and USD497!!!! Maybe they will spend more time working instead of trying to tell everyone what to do!!!
I need to log off now because I have to go back to work so I can pay more taxes for so many tax slackers here in Lawrence don't have to.
ReadingSports (anonymous) says…
First of I really enjoyed Ms. Wilson's Guitar playing when she was in Heart.
You know she does have a point. And it really produces a lot of greenhouse gases when you sear the steaks on a charcole fired grill. Not to mention that it's a lot harder to control the temperature, which is why I'm a gas man, myself.
Sometimes I cook chicken and hot dogs too. Maybe an occasional bratwurst.
You don't want a lot of carbonization on the steak either, and you might want to soak them in a nice marinade. Maybe a good red wine or beer.
Though I should try veal sometime, the other poster had a point about veal being the prius of meats.
Otherwise this is pretty silly.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
jafs (anonymous) says…
none,
In my opinion, none of the "high/low" diets really make much sense.
One can do better by simply getting all of one's nutritional needs met and keeping things like saturated fats at a low level.
Fruit does contain a fairly high amount of sugar - however it's much better for you than processed sugar. I wouldn't worry about eating fruit or unsweetened fruit juice.
nota,
I said "including" supplements - there are many other foods that contain essential nutrients than meat. Interestingly, Dr. Koop (former Surgeon General) recommends a daily multi-vitamin and mineral supplement to cover the gaps in our diets.
And, of course, if you think that steak will provide all of your essential nutrients, I think you're mistaken.
Finally, if one believes that killing animals is simply wrong, then there's a moral issue in play here, not just a "lifestyle choice".
I think I'll stop coming back to this story now - both sides of the issue seem to have been presented.
PS - It is interesting that many intelligent and creative people were vegetarians.
notajayhawk (anonymous) says…
"PS - It is interesting that many intelligent and creative people were vegetarians."
I'll bet if you really thought about it for a minute or two, you might be able to come up with a couple who were meat-eaters, too.
tumbilweed (anonymous) says…
"on our ranch we truly care for the environment and the animals we raise."
...until you kill them and sell them for money, which is really why you are ranching, no?
merrill (anonymous) says…
Meat is an expensive item. It requires a lot of water to produce one head of beef cattle.
for a good source of protein go with Tempeh and Tofu products. Tofu can be designed as a basil/garlic dip,sandwich spread/wrap ,burrito,addition to chili,stir fried,steamed or prepared to taste like chicken or beef using herbs and spices. Locally Central Soy is as fresh and tasty as it gets.....no 18 wheeler time on the highway.
Seitan is another excellent meat alternative
There are plenty of cooking suggestions on line which are mainstream and practical.
cowboy (anonymous) says…
Spongebobmerrillbrain wrote " It takes a lot of water to raise a head of beef cattle "
just how much is it Spongebobmerrillbrain ? how do you measure the rain coming down from the sky and filling a pond?
swampyankee (anonymous) says…
cow farts pollute more than people driving to vegetarian restaurants ? maybe a little beano in the grain might help
cowboy (anonymous) says…
swampyankee , so youre the one I saw prowling around my farm yesterday sniffin the cows rears. I just figured it was a KStater lookin for a Friday night date.
jackbinkelman (anonymous) says…
http://www.waoy.org/26.html For the full article.
10 physical differences between carnivores (meat eaters) and herbivores (plant eaters).
1.a carnivore's teeth are long, sharp and pointed. These are tools that are useful for the task of piercing into flesh.
2.A carnivore's jaws move up and down with minimal sideways motion. These are tools that are useful for the tasks of shearing, ripping and tearing flesh and swallowing it whole.
3.A carnivore or omnivore's saliva does not contain digestive enzymes. Man's, as well as other herbivore's saliva is alkaline, containing carbohydrate digestive enzymes.
4.A carnivore's stomach secretes powerful digestive enzymes with about 10 times the amount of hydrochloric acid than a human or herbivore.
5.A carnivore's or omnivore's small intestine is three to six times the length of its trunk. This is a tool designed for rapid elimination of food that rots quickly. Man's, as well as other herbivore's small intestines are 10 to 12 times the length of their body, and winds itself back and forth in random directions. This is a tool designed for keeping food in it for long enough periods of time so that all the valuable nutrients and minerals can be extracted from it before it enters the large intestine.
6.A carnivore's or omnivore's large intestine is relatively short and simple, like a pipe. This passage is also relatively smooth and runs fairly straight so that fatty wastes high in cholesterol can easily slide out before they start to putrefy. Man's, as well as other herbivore's large intestines, or colons, are puckered and pouched, an apparatus that runs in three directions (ascending, traversing and descending), designed to hold wastes
7.Animal flesh, composed of the most highly complex type of protein that exists, requires vast amounts of uric acid to process. Uric acid is released into the system in amounts necessary to break proteins down into amino acids. Uric acid is a toxic substance responsible for the aging process
8.A predator has a gait, large paws and claws, which enable him to hunt, chase and trap his prey. These are tools meant to kill. Man's gait, as well as other herbivore's is designed only for mobility.
9.A carnivore's frame of mind is totally geared for hunting and killing. Man's frame of mind is compassionate, friendly and reveres life.
10. Man is not a natural hunter. Every predator, in order to go hunting, MUST be hungry. Man cannot go hunting if he IS hungry! He must have a meal first. Hunger must precede a predator to go hunting. Hunger must follow man's desire to go hunting, it cannot precede it.
notajayhawk (anonymous) says…
Wow, jack, that's uh ... interesting. So your contention is what - that human beings have developed into an entirely new species since the days before we developed into an agrarian society?
While you're at it, jack, take a look at where the eyes are mounted on most prey species - on the side of the head, giving them the protection of near-wraparound vision. The eyes of most predators - like humans - are mounted close together in the front (binocular vision being better for depth perception, a useful tool for hunting).
gr (anonymous) says…
"The problem is that there were too many carbs in many of the foods I loved: grains — such as rice; pastas; breads (even if multi grain); deserts (lots of sugars); fruits/dried fruits/fruit juices (high sugars). Sure you can eat greens and greenbeans, but for the most part it is hard to keep carbs down."
none2, what's wrong with carbs? Unless you mean refined and processed carbs. Like in the "deserts" you mention. How about the rice? Is that white rice? Stick to the fruits. Know anyone who is unhealthy or fat from eating fruit? I don't. But, I know very few who just fruits and vegetables. I know lots who engorge themselves on "deserts", white bread, white rice, denuded grains. I also know some who won't eat fruit, who won't eat whole-grain bread, but then say since they've reduced their "carbs", they can have a candy bar. Sick people. And not just their physical health I'm talking about.
I guess ND was not able to provide any links about how meat is a necessary requirement to provide nutrients. She said it provides "more". Never said how much was needed. Nor how this meat magically acquired these nutrients which we can not.
Of interest is how all these global warming hypers think we should do anything to reduce global warming no matter how infinitesimally small, no matter how infinitesimally meaningless, but yet when it affected their warped appetites, woe be it if anyone suggest they curb it. They'll stick probes up cow's rears, but not stop eating them.
I would say diet is a way to stop this global warming nonsense. Attempt to take away their gluttony, and suddenly they'll shut up about their manufactured myth.